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ZooeyModeratorI miss Picard.
w
vI’m with you there.
Patrick Stewart single-handedly revived the entire Star Trek franchise.
ZooeyModeratorMore on how Trump supporters see this thing: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/us/politics/trump-scandal-conservatives-media.html?emc=edit_th_20170518&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=66806393&_r=0&referer
They have a completely alternative reality going, and there is no way to change that. I think we need to be clear about that. We aren’t going to change the minds of those people who have been brainwashed. Our only hope is to change the minds of people who have been apathetic about politics. Those are the potentially persuadable people.
ZooeyModeratorWell-as I see it-unless there is-or are-criminal convictions the public -besides people like you and me-are not going to jump the Trump ship-as long as the economy continues to grow under his administration-which it has been. With few exceptions (i.e. crimes committed) it’s always about the economy. Good or bad its how we are wired. And if Mueller’s investigation shows no criminality then that will only beholden these idiots. I do hold out hope that your scenario comes to bear but I’m nowhere near as assured as you are.
Trump is holding fast in Republican support – something like 84% approval.
But only 38% of all voters.
Historically, when one party has controlled the White House and both houses of congress, that party has lost an average of 35 seats in the midterm elections. The GOP majority currently sits at 22. So although gerrymandering has a huge effect now, it is possible that the turnout will be higher for people pissed off than for people who are content. We don’t need people to “jump the Trump ship.” We just need more people to turn out to vote for Democrats.
I am not “assured.” I am hopeful. Given the circumstances, this is about as good as we could hope for, I think. A Republican party on the ropes. That is best case scenario, fwiw.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by
Zooey.
ZooeyModeratorI don’t care if he gets convicted or not. I want the entire Republican deconstruction of the government snarled up in traffic. I want him stopped. I want the Republican party to catch fire, and voters to be so disgusted with them that 2018 changes the direction of the country.
And there is a lot more here than just the possibility of criminal collusion with Russia. I mean…I think we already have obstruction of justice. How can we not? Trump pressured Comey to drop his investigation of Flynn, and then came out on TV and flat out said he fired Comey because of the Trump/Russia stuff. That is already enough to impeach Trump, and so that is a matter of due process. The Mueller investigation means this isn’t going away. And I believe we have hit the tipping point now that I’ve long expected where the benefits of having Trump in the WH (tax cuts, shredding the Big Government, etc) are from now on going to be outweighed by the collateral damage to the GOP. They are screwed. The only question is how long will it take for them to come to terms with that. IMO, from a GOP point of view, “If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well it were done quickly.” They should fry the guy, and go with Pence ASAP.
My hope is they don’t act quickly because imo an ineffective Trump white house under investigation is preferable to a Mike Pence administration which could right the ship and swiftly enact all kinds of painful legislation.
Additionally, there are all kinds of other questions that are going to be vented by both the House and Senate. And I think they are going to eventually appoint an independent counsel which is different from what I understand. Mueller can only investigate what has already happened, but an independent counsel would be investigating what happened with an eye for making changes for the future. So we are now going to investigate what external influences there were on this election and prepare for cyber attacks in future election cycles.
In short, this is a big can of worms, and criminal conviction isn’t necessary as far as I am concerned. I want to see the fire spread throughout the GOP, and the knives to come out, and the GOP to suffer an internal war, and heads to roll.

ZooeyModeratorWhile I admire and agree with the appointment of a special counsel(i.e. prosecutor)and especially appointing Robert Mueller the problem is he is charged with determining if any crimes were committed be it by the President or others. It will be a secret process that could end up in two words: “No crimes”. And “no indictment.” Nothing will have been learned as to what really happened that would reflect on the competency of the President and his ability to lead this country. Simply put no matter how credible and respected Mueller is his job is narrow as a special prosecutor. What is still needed is an “independent investigation” into issues that may not rise to the level of criminality but nevertheless reflect on how dangerous this administration is acting and needs to be held accountable for -either at the polls or by impeachment or by resignation.
Well, I don’t understand that. I saw the letter (can’t find it now), and it appeared to give him a mandate to investigate the connection to Russia, and anything else that comes up in that investigation, and I would think that he would have a tough time concealing any findings even if he wanted to do so. Don’t you think that findings will make their way into the public? And Schiff said that the House and Senate are both going to continue their investigations, so I don’t see how Trump gets away with this. It’s likely a matter of time, and anything he steps in from now on will only compound the urgency to do something about him.
McConnell looked like he was going to his own execution today as he dodged reporters. I think we’ve finally hit the tipping point.
I will add, btw, that I doubt there was direct collusion with Russia. Why would Putin let Trump in the loop of what he was doing? I’m sure they talked, and discussed mutual interests and possibilities, but I can’t see why Putin would reveal tactics to Trump or his camp.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by
Zooey.
ZooeyModeratorI am hopeful, btw, that this is about the best possible scenario right now. It appears to me that this past week rattled the Republicans quite a lot. It also appears that the Republicans are not going to do a “McConnell” – i.e. a complete denial of reality and total stonewalling. They have evidently started throwing the brakes on Trump.
We have a special counsel who is respected by everybody. I haven’t read or seen a negative response to this guy, Mueller, by anybody. And although Trump theoretically CAN fire this guy, I can’t image that he will. If he does, congress will renew the Office of Independent Counsel,” and hostility to Trump will spread.
In the meantime, the tax cuts and other projects have taken a hit, and are going to be slowed down if not killed as a consequence of this. This investigation has finally found some “real” traction, and the Republican agenda is going to proceed more slowly as this investigation dominates business.
Furthermore, this is going to take months. If it does, in fact, gum up legislation and stays as the topic of conversation (and I’m sure Trump will keep adding fuel to the fire because that’s who he is), it improves the chances of turning the House in 2018. About the best we can hope for at the moment.
ZooeyModeratorI don’t recall that many injuries on the 79 team. I remember their record, of course, and how they were not as dominant as they had been in previous seasons, but I didn’t remember all those injuries.
At QB they went through Haden, Ferragamo, Rutledge, and Bob Lee. Wow.
Great defense. Just love that Seattle game. I can’t imagine that record will ever be broken.
ZooeyModeratorI don’t have access to Putin’s head, but I have read that “Democracy is weak and ineffectual and vulnerable and undesirable” is a pretty constant theme on Russian television. Which I do not watch myself.
But just as we had decades of “communism is evil” as a major theme in our media, it isn’t surprising that Putin would be dishing out something like this.
And of course the real goal is to undermine rival powers, and enhance his own. That’s the way this works.
ZooeyModeratorI see this whole episode as just being a very bad deal. Our allies’ confidence is shaken, and you would think that they will screen some of their intelligence. The USA is no less reliable. You have to think that our domestic intelligence agencies feel the same way, and may withhold information from Trump.
In any event, Putin is getting what he wanted: a shaking of faith in democracy as a form of government, and a shaking of faith in the USA as a world leader.
ZooeyModeratorLooks like Trump has a 38 percent approval rating this month. Fwiw.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspxw
vYeah I know. But not “approving” of him is different than not “supporting” him. Which is my point. I know several who can’t stand the guy and don’t “approve” of his conduct other than his efforts to make their financial interests more secure. Sad. But these are family run businesses and their concern is focused on just that.To a man and woman they are totally convinced that had Clinton won their business would have been adversely affected.
That is right, and it’s an important distinction.
At the same time his approval ratings drop, polls also show that he would win again if the election were held today. In spite of all this shit.
May 16, 2017 at 3:11 pm in reply to: Apparently 5'8" WR Shakeir Ryan of Northwestern State has made a big impression #68902
ZooeyModeratorYeah, okay. He’s 5’8″ and weighs 160.
So…he may be great at football, but he isn’t big enough.
ZooeyModeratorToo skinny.
And they should be gray facemasks. And the jerseys should have no gold.
And the Rams should go 13-3, also.
The sad thing is that wv, a longtime diehard Rams fan is only now discovering the horns are too skinny when they’ve been that way for years.
You are just now noticing but you have an excuse…you’re not a Rams fan.
First of all, I have complained about their thinness a few times over the years.
Secondly, these are thinner even than the previous version. These have lost weight since last year. They are dangerously thin, and could lead to more concussions.
THIS is the appropriate horn mass:

ZooeyModeratorIt’s not illegal if the president does it.
This time it happens to be true. He didn’t do anything illegal. It was just totally brainless, and is going to make the deep-state even more cautious about what they tell him, I would think.
As for Putin, I think he just wants to undermine confidence in America both domestically and internationally.
ZooeyModeratorToo skinny.
And they should be gray facemasks. And the jerseys should have no gold.
And the Rams should go 13-3, also.
ZooeyModeratorCan’t pass something if it’s never brought to the table, and you can’t advance “progressive” policies if you keep silent about them. Win, lose or draw, they need to be brought to the table, over and over and over again until they do pass.
The GOP gets that. They don’t remain silent about their own odious legislative goals. They tend to take the long view and keep hammering away until they get the power to ram their stuff through.
Yep.
ZooeyModeratorThere is no doubt in my mind that we would not have invaded Iraq under Gore, and that ISIS wouldn’t exist in its current state, if it existed at all. So without doubt, the election of Bush was catastrophic.
Personally, I do not blame Nader. I blame Jeb Bush and Kathleen Harris, and Justices Scalia and O’Connor most heavily.
ZooeyModeratorAnd Buchanon got 449,000, and the Libertarian candidate got over 384,000. Which candidate were those votes taken from?
And beyond Florida, New Mexico, Oregon, Iowa, and Wisconsin were all decided by less than half a percent, New Mexico by less than a tenth of a percent.
ZooeyModerator“Yet this comparison demeans Nixon, who at least had the sense to fire Archie Cox on a Saturday. ”
I thought that this was just another symptom of the stupidity of this administration.
They are such amateurs.
ZooeyModeratorI thought it was Jesus’ bowling ball from the Big Lebowski.
ZooeyModeratorOkay, then.
How about this?
We cut taxes on corporations, and deregulate them, and the marketplace sorts everything out to the benefit of all mankind.
May 11, 2017 at 3:50 pm in reply to: Before ankle injury, Justin Davis was the most elusive back in NCAA #68644
ZooeyModeratorI dunno what to do with that because I don’t know what the numbers mean. Also, Fournette isn’t even on the list, and he was the consensus best RB in college football, so….
Anywyay. Run, Justin, run.

ZooeyModeratorI mean even IF a Bernie were somehow to be elected, that Bernie would have to deal with a corporate-Senate, a corporate-House, a corporate-Court, a corporate-CIA….etc. The mega-corpse would just smear him, and wait him out.
This, here, is the corps of the problem. We could fluke in a progressive president just as people have elected Senator Wellstone, Sanders, and a few others, and given 40 years, we might get a progressive counterpart to the Freedom Caucus – 40 or 50 seats. It would be too little, too late. Furthermore, even places that have elected progressives…like Minnesota which elected Wellstone…aren’t making a permanent commitment to progressive politics. The same state elected Jesse Ventura to the governorship, and Al Franken wone his seat by a hairsbreadth over Norm Coleman. The only way to overcome the Corpse is with a mass awakening, and there is no historical precedent. How is that even conceivable when the far right owns all the media? And ignorance is soooooo pervasive.
I tripped upon a twitter site called something like ClimateChangein5Words. And 1/4 of the tweets were “There is no Planet B” and 3/4 said something like “Global Socialist conspiracy to take over the world.” And you can’t argue people out of that level of stupidity because they have already decided that Science is on the take with grant money designed to get them to fix the evidence so that leftist powers can impose more limitations on human freedom, and control people. I mean…that is literally what they think.
So I would say that convincing the masses is basically impossible. People literally do not know what is evidence, and what isn’t, what is a good argument, and what is not.
ZooeyModeratorYeah, I’d say the Pessimism Level on this board has risen significantly in the past year. All kinds of reasons why.
ZooeyModeratorFor WV

ZooeyModeratorAnd this is an interesting story. McCain hates Trump.
ZooeyModeratorNo evidence (at that point) of collusion.
But collusion is not the only animal in this hunt.
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Yes. And fwiw, I dont have any doubt the rooskies spent a ton of money
helping Donald, as well as other candidates in other nations.And can almost guarantee that other powerful nations have taken notice and are working on their own versions of influencing modern elections. China, Israel, etc.
And of course the USA is the king of influencing elections the world over. And thats putting it mildly.
Meanwhile the mega-corpse just laugh at it all. Trump, Obama, Hillary, Russians, Chinese, it dont matter.
w
vWe live in a society where greed is considered a virtue. Where someone else’s ignorance is an advantage to be exploited. Where thinking about the Greater Good is foolish and even treasonous. Where people support policies that harm themselves in the name of an empty symbol.
ZooeyModeratorHuh.
Well, I would yell, “Stop the Presses!” but that picture of Kim Kardashian flossing her twat with an American flag just needs to hit the streets.
ZooeyModeratorWell for some of us its hard to care about the ‘seriousness of the various scandals’ when the system itself is the single biggest scandal in human-history. I cant think of any other organization or entity that has threatened all life on the planet.
Where are the ‘good guys’ in this Zooey?
w
vSure, but the fingers and noses rotting off the system ought to clue voters into the fact that the system has leprosy, don’t you think?
But they don’t respond appropriately. They just say, “Aggh. It’s just acne. Both parties have it.”
The “good guys” don’t go into politics. By it’s nature, politics attracts people who are interested in Power. Sociopaths. The good guys are handing $10 out their car windows to the vet the government won’t take care of.
ZooeyModeratorOne political hack will now be replaced by a more obedient political hack.
This system is beyond fixing.
Just my opinion. I know, i know, I’m a ‘cynic’. Except I’m not.
The system is…beyond…fixing. Trump will be replaced in time. And
the system will go on as it was with Obama/Clinton. And the scientists will
stop marching, and the Clintonistas and Reaganistas will go back
to destroying the biosphere.w
vSomeone gave me the Hoover biography in the late 80s, and I started reading it. Got about 1/4 of the way through the book, and had to put it down. Hoover was such a disgusting pig that I just didn’t want to “spend time” with him.
You have to think…”What kind of personality would want the job of FBI director?”
And there ya go.
ZooeyModeratorSo Comey gets fired right after federal prosecutors issued grand jury subpoenas to associates of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. If the general public does not care about this then something drastically has changed since Watergate to now.
Maybe half the people in this country may not care because Trump comes off as a tough talking son of a bitch-the kind of guy you don’t want to mess around with in a bar. The kind of “leader” you follow into battle. And Nixon did not come off like that. If that is so then we are indeed lost.
It appears that the Trump supporters are treating this the same way Obama supporters treated the Benghazi hearings. They are saying there is nothing there, and the investigation is just a political hit job.
I think the country has changed since Watergate. A lot. I think if Watergate happened today, the president would get away with it. I think the majority of people just see all of this as noise, and lump it all together without distinguishing the seriousness of the various scandals.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by
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