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znModeratorBut the Rams don’t have a lot of choice really.
Yeah they do.
They can not reach for a qb.
That way, they can end up 7-9 with a more talented team while waiting to find a qb, ASSUMING Bradford does not work out.
Or they can end up 7-9 with a LESS talented team having reached for a qb, ASSUMING Bradford does not work out.
The chances of REACHING for a qb out of need? The odds against that are just so great it’s not worth contemplating.
So yeah they have a choice.
January 14, 2015 at 9:36 am in reply to: relocation thread #3, starting with Chargers stirring up a fight #16482
znModeratorArticle Launched: 07/16/2007 10:49:19 PM PDT
Hey CL. Articles posted here need links. I searched the net and found a link I inserted via edit.
znModeratorI think this kid is a perfect fit for the Rams situation. He sits behind Sam till Sam gets hurt. I’d take him at 10 – OL/BPA rest of the way. Weird situation with this kid – he likely rides the pine at OSU yet he has the physical make-up to be a stud. He might as well make bank for his family and sit on the Ram’s bench (wherever that may be). Raw as hell but an impressive 3 game run. I would jump on him – seems like a Fisher type QB. I bet he has really strong pinkies too.
Not so sure. Too little info about him. They say he may not even be the starter at OSU next year if he stays. The negative on him: he might be a system qb and it’s hard enough to tell that after a lot of games let alone 3. And they say he has maturity issues,and no one knows yet if he’s a natural worker. So far he hasn’t earned anything, he got there because of injuries.
January 13, 2015 at 11:56 pm in reply to: relocation thread #3, starting with Chargers stirring up a fight #16469
znModeratorto me that’s still significant. and it’s definitely a factor. and i still think it’s a conservative estimate.
Board wars like this one are always so tragic.

znModeratorHe can be stopped. Rather readily, if you can hold up to that running game. So, to me, he remains a 2nd tier QB.
But all this is academic. ON A GOOD TEAM–such as his Hawks–Wilson can win, and win, and win. And it’s hard to argue against that.
I think that was all well put. You sum up this view pretty well I think.
January 13, 2015 at 11:15 pm in reply to: relocation thread #3, starting with Chargers stirring up a fight #16465
znModeratormaybe he could make 50 million more in revenue with a los angeles team compared to a st. louis team. and i think that’s being conservative. so over 10 years that would be 500 million. plus 500 million he could raise in psls.
so maybe 1 billion dollars in ten years. again being very conservative.
But then the move and all associated expenses plus building the stadium etc. is about 2.5 billion, at least.
January 13, 2015 at 10:22 pm in reply to: relocation thread #3, starting with Chargers stirring up a fight #16458
znModeratori don’t know. i have no idea.
Well just using speculative guess-timates, that’s how much revenue he would have to draw in (after expenses) to make back what he spends to build and move. That is, make it back within 10 years.
znModeratorNot everyone dispised Georgia. I didn’t.
January 13, 2015 at 9:58 pm in reply to: relocation thread #3, starting with Chargers stirring up a fight #16454
znModeratori don’t think we have any idea what kind of revenues he can get from building this. thing.
i still think it’s an issue. i think the potential for revenue compared to st. louis is a lot higher than we can imagine. it’s not just nfl games.
it’s concerts. it’s other sporting events. corporate sponsorships. i know st. louis said it’s got plenty of corporate partners in st. louis, but it’ll be nothing like what’s available in los angeles.
i don’t think it’s JUST about the value of the franchise.
Do you think he will make 250 M a year from all those things combined?
January 13, 2015 at 9:26 pm in reply to: relocation thread #3, starting with Chargers stirring up a fight #16452
znModeratorno. if he gets the psl’s he’s expecting. it might essentially pay for the move. AND the value of the team increases. AND he gets increased revenue.
so he does get his money back. with the psl’s, it’s possible he doesn’t have to pay any of that relocation fee or building of the stadium out of his own pocket.
No I did the math on that. It would not pay for the move. But see he doesn’t care about paying for the move so it;s just not an issue.
The relocation fee is its own issue. If the league waives it, the costs of moving and building are still greater than what he would get in new revenues. It would take YEARS to get back the money he would spend to build there and get the team there. So obviously he does not care about that part of it.
January 13, 2015 at 9:03 pm in reply to: relocation thread #3, starting with Chargers stirring up a fight #16450
znModeratorwell there ya go.
that’s how he would make his money back.
st. louis is in a real bind here. the only way i see the rams staying at this point is if the broncos do go on sale this year, and kroenke is inclined to sell the rams quick.
also.
With a new TV contract that started this year and runs through 2021, the league won’t see much immediate financial impact from a move of any team to Los Angeles.
is that what owners are waiting for? would a team in los angeles mean more tv dollars in the next contract? well. all the more reason the league wants a team or two there.
I.R. he gets that money anyway, whether he moves or not. Same as all owners.
That has nothing to do with the revenue v. team value issue.
That issue is simple. It costs X amount to move and build a new stadium and pay the league relocation fee. No increase in revenue from moving will pay him back that X amount in his lifetime. All that’s just true. But I then suggested that the fact that LA revenues will never re-pay the X amount for moving means he does not care about that part of it. What he cares about is having his franchise be worth more, on paper.
And so he does not care about getting his money back. He cares about his team having a higher value. Why? Pride thing. Biggest fish caught on the fishing trip. That kind of thing.
Every team gets tv revenue, it’s not related to the moving issue.
Looking at it this way means he doesn’t care if he makes back the money he spends to relocate. It’s just not the real issue for him.
would a team in los angeles mean more tv dollars in the next contract?
Well probably not. Everyone in LA who wants to watch pro football, already DOES. Moving a team there changes nothing in that respect.
The league does not really make more money just cause a team is in LA. There may be a couple of million more per team from the gate, and that’s chicken feed and besides it is not certain that would be true. So “making more money” has nothing to do with any of this as far as the league is concerned. Not from the tv contract, not from the gate, nothing. None of this does anything significant to change how much money the league makes.
January 13, 2015 at 7:37 pm in reply to: relocation thread #3, starting with Chargers stirring up a fight #16440
znModeratorJerry Jones on the Rams and L.A.
By Nick Wagoner | ESPN.com
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/
EARTH CITY, Mo. — Earlier Tuesday, we opened the Morning Ram-blings in this space with a look at a story from the SportsBusiness Journal citing unnamed sources in the San Diego Chargers’ organization offering thoughts on St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kroenke relocating his team to Los Angeles.
But that wasn’t the only story citing a higher-up in a team in the league discussing the move. In fact, there was one of the highest of higher-ups with his name attached to a New York Times story posted Monday evening. In this case, it was Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones speaking to the New York Times. (The part with Jones and the Rams is about halfway down).
Fans hoping the Rams will stay in St. Louis probably won’t like what Jones had to say. Speaking to reporter Ken Belson, Jones made it clear he believes Kroenke and the Rams can and will relocate if that’s truly what they want to do, even if the league’s preference would be for them to stay.
“As it would turn out now, apart from the league saying no, you can move there,” Jones told the New York Times. “Keep in mind that teams have moved without the permission of the league. They just have.”
Jones went on to add that Kroenke can move even if the league says he can’t and that “there are just certain things that clubs can do.”
Jones would know better than most that there are certain things that clubs can do. Way back in 1995, Jones drew the ire of the league for signing a 10-year deal to make Pepsi the official soft drink of Texas Stadium even though Coca-Cola was the official league drink at the time. The move led to the league suing Jones for $300 million for violation of the league’s revenue sharing model and he counter-sued for $750 million.
Neither suit made it far as the league and its owners actually realized Jones’ plan was a good way for teams to add revenue. Jones was simply ahead of his time.
Having Jones come out and make such statements guarantees nothing but it’s certainly worth noting any time one of the league’s biggest power brokers speaks up. While St. Louis now has a stadium plan on the table and Kroenke has one in Los Angeles, much of what happens next could fall into the league’s hands. But Kroenke will have a major say in the matter as well.
I’ve seen it written or heard it said that no team has ever left an NFL city with an accepted stadium proposal on the table in its current place. But that doesn’t mean much if Kroenke turns down the proposal here. The St. Louis plan asks him to pay about $450 million ($200 million of which would come in the form of a loan but have to be paid back via revenue from premium seating ). The NFL can’t force Kroenke to pay that money here or anywhere. If he turns down the St. Louis offer, there is no “accepted” stadium proposal.
One of the biggest questions in this whole thing is where the league will ultimately stand on the Rams’ future. The NFL does have a little leverage should it or nine owners decide to challenge a potential move because Kroenke is still in violation of cross ownership rules. And there are possible penalties for an owner who decides to move without league permission such as withholding of shares of league revenue. For what it’s worth Dave Peacock and the St. Louis group believes the NFL will enforce its guidelines on relocation before allowing a Kroenke move.
But as Jones pointed out, if Kroenke wants his end game to be a move to Los Angeles, there are ways to make it happen even if the league isn’t on board.
January 13, 2015 at 7:35 pm in reply to: Rams led all teams w/3 players selected to Pro Football Writers all-rookie team #16439
znModeratorAaron Donald named PFWA Defensive Rookie of the Year
By Nick Wagoner
EARTH CITY, Mo. — The honors and awards that Aaron Donald became so accustomed to during his senior year at Pittsburgh continue to roll in after his first NFL season.
On Tuesday, the Pro Football Writers of America named Donald the 2014 Defensive Rookie of the Year and a member of the All-Rookie team. Donald has already earned similar honors from Pro Football Focus, Sports Illustrated and elsewhere and is considered a strong favorite to take home the “official” award from the Associated Press at the NFL honors presentation on Jan. 31.
Donald led all rookies with nine sacks this past season, a total that ranked second amongst all defensive tackles only behind Buffalo’s Marcell Dareus and the sixth most by a rookie defensive tackle since sacks became an official statistic in 1982.
Donald wasn’t the only Rams rookie to garner some love from the PFWA on Tuesday. Cornerback E.J. Gaines and running back Tre Mason also earned spots on the All-Rookie team.
Gaines was a bit of a revelation for the Rams after stepping into the starting lineup because of preseason injuries. He never relinquished that spot until a concussion put him on the sidelines in the final week. Before that, he led the Rams with 14 passes defended and posted two interceptions and two fumble recoveries all while vacillating between outside and nickel corner.
Mason emerged as the starter at running back in the middle of the season and likely won’t give the job back. He rushed for 765 yards and his five touchdowns were tied for most on the team.
znModeratori think he could play in any system and be successful.
The issue is not the system, it’s the situation.
Brees is a better qb than Wilson at this point, but then the Saints defense is 31st in the league.
Seattle is in the playoffs, not the Saints, because they have the #1 defense in the league.
You think if we switched Brees and Wilson, that the Brees-quarterbacked Seahawks don’t do as well? (Obviously they do as well.) You think the Wilson-quarterbacked Saints do better?
Yet the Saints are 2nd in passing attempts, 3rd in passing yards…while Seattle is 32nd in passing attempts, and 27th in yards.
No one says Wilson isn’t good or that he’s just average. But c’mon. They’re 1st on defense and 32nd in passing attempts. He has an ideal situation and isn’t asked to carry the team. I think that Seattle gets the same results with more than a dozen different qbs.
znModeratorThat’s a good DV interview.
znModeratorWilson is definitely a top 4 QB. They don’t ask more of him because they emphasize the run. Wilson can do it all.
Well we differ on that. I see nothing that tells me that he can do it all, at the level of a Luck. I see a lot of evidence that he’s a good fit for a running team with a top defense. I also think that you could put about 12-15 different qbs on the Seahawks and the result would be the same if not in some cases better.
January 12, 2015 at 7:21 pm in reply to: relocation thread #3, starting with Chargers stirring up a fight #16378
znModeratorI can’t believe someone is posting that Shane Gray crap here.
Let’s be respectful…anyone can post anything, it’s all grist for the mill. Now Gray’s ARGUMENT, you can say what you like about that.
January 12, 2015 at 3:58 pm in reply to: new relocation thread! starting with JT: Kroenke faces rough road out of town #16370
znModeratorand on top of that the cash flow will be even greater than at st louis considering the non football retail space.
We know the cash will increase. That was never in dispute. It’s a given.
The question was, whether or not that revenue will ever equal his expenses for moving, which I estimated conservatively at 2.5 billion. To get that back in ten years his NEW revenue must be 250 M a year, and it’s not going to be that.
So what that tells ME anyway is that the revenue can’t be the motive, it must be the value of the franchise. It’s worth more in LA.
But that’s not cash flow. But then I don’t think he cares about that as much.
January 12, 2015 at 2:39 pm in reply to: new relocation thread! starting with JT: Kroenke faces rough road out of town #16366
znModeratorExcept I don’t see a guy like Kroenke keeping that $2 billion windfall on paper, well on paper. He would use it.
Well … for what? He doesn’t need the money. Even then that means he pays interest. I just don’t think his main thing is revenues in any way, shape or form.
I agree with Zooey at this point.
It’s value, and [owning] a big, bold, shiny thing. He gets to host Super Bowls and Olympics and World Cups and Stuff.
January 12, 2015 at 12:23 pm in reply to: Rams granted permission to speak with Greg Roman and Kyle Shanahan #16354
znModeratorThere’s uncertainty at QB and a woeful offensive line.
Injured.
It’s different.
Replacing 2 interior linemen is not this huge challenge.
In fact, as a study I posted once shows, since 93 and the era of the cap and free agency, every NFL team changes OL starters at the rate of 3.5 every 2 years.
In that environment replacing 2 is nothing.
January 12, 2015 at 12:09 pm in reply to: new relocation thread! starting with JT: Kroenke faces rough road out of town #16350
znModeratorI see it as a wash.
Then that gets me back to my original point.
I was just claiming that he is not moving FOR revenue. That’s not the motive. It can’t be. In terms of just generating revenue, his intake will never equal his expenses in his lifetime.
If it’s a wash, then we agree, the issue is not revenue.
The motive must just therefore be value. The franchise goes up in value, and plus is brighter and shinier. That’s what he cares about. That’s his thing.
Nothing else makes sense cause he’s not going to be making money off this, personally.
Whether or not he could afford to do that is beside the point. Yeah he can afford to pursue something with the sole purpose of increasing the on-paper value of his property. But see not everyone would do that. You do that if on-paper value is your holy grail.
January 12, 2015 at 11:42 am in reply to: new relocation thread! starting with JT: Kroenke faces rough road out of town #16344
znModeratorzn wrote:
I think his main thing is just the value of the franchise itself, which of course is not the same as cash flow.On paper value true except that he will be able to borrow against that increased value for an extremely low interest rate. It is the only guaranteed positive to come from a move to LA. Everything else is pure conjecture. In effect Kroenke will have created an instant $1.5-$2 billion credit line while not risking a dime of his own money. Simply put he keeps his personal $6 billion while getting up to an additional $2 billion in credit.
Well he bought the land, the stadium is privately financed, and he presumbly would owe a relocation fee.
Like I said that’s probably around 2.5 B out of his own pocked.
My point was simply that he won’t realize any cash flow that will = 2.5 B.
Meaning, he would not be moving to MAKE money. He’s SPENDING money to move.
His real issue IMO is just increasing the value of his investment.
Plus of course having a brighter shinier thing.
znModerator
Completed catch origins
By Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/15382/morning-ram-blings-completed-catch-origins
Much of the discussion coming out of the NFL divisional playoff rounds this morning will center on the fourth-and-2 catch and subsequent non-catch by Dallas Cowboys receiver Dez Bryant in the closing moments of their loss to the Green Bay Packers.
For the few who might have missed it, the ruling on the field was that Bryant made the catch and was down at the 1-yard line. But Green Bay coach Mike McCarthy challenged the ruling with the idea that Bryant did not control the ball all the way through his landing on the ground. Indeed, the replay showed the ball hitting the ground as Bryant came down.
A huge play was overturned and the Packers ran out the clock to seal the win.
Of course, there was immediately plenty of outrage about the call and whether you agree with it or not, the debate isn’t so much about the call as it is the rule. Our resident officiating expert is NFL Nation columnist Kevin Seifert, who immediately filed some thoughts on the call.
No matter what side of the fence you fall on that debate, there’s no doubt that it will bring plenty of scrutiny to a rule that actually dates to the St. Louis Rams’ run to the Super Bowl XXXIV championship back in 1999-2000.
In that NFC Championship Game, the Rams were on the ropes against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. As Tampa tried to drive for the potential winning points, an apparent 13-yard completion to receiver Bert Emanuel would have given the Bucs a first down at the Rams’ 22. But a review came down from the replay booth and it was determined that the nose of the ball touched the ground.
The call was overturned and the Bucs never got closer to the end zone as the Rams advanced to the Super Bowl. After the season, the NFL took steps to clarify what constitutes a catch, which has since been deemed the “Bert Emanuel rule.”
There have been plenty of other questionable calls similar to that play since, namely the Calvin Johnson catch against Chicago that was changed to an incompletion in 2010.
Some will argue that the Cowboys were the victims of karma for benefiting from a call last week against Detroit. Either way, it’s probably wise to expect the debate on what constitutes a catch to begin anew.
January 12, 2015 at 10:01 am in reply to: new relocation thread! starting with JT: Kroenke faces rough road out of town #16339
znModeratorYou mean he will enrich himself by more than a billion dollars, and not have to pay taxes on it because of the way the numbers look on paper?
I don’t know about any of that. But, I assume he has to pay a relocation fee (which is stiff) and of course there was buying the land, building the stadium, and moving the team. I am guessing that’s around 2.5 billion at least, all told.
I don’t think that any any revenue he gets annually from the facilities, the gate, the luxury boxes, and the “retail park” will add up to 2.5 billion in his lifetime.
I think his main thing is just the value of the franchise itself, which of course is not the same as cash flow.
znModeratorobody and I mean nobody in St Louis is trumpeting the ugly edifice that is Peacock’s proposal. Most telling is that the Governor and the Mayor didn’t bother to show either
Yes some are. It;s out there. There are of course clashing opinions on this too; yours and others.
znModeratorA poster that works hard on scouting, from Ram Stalk. They use blue font.
Except there, blue font is code for “while I am mildly puzzled, I am also a bit intrigued.”
I think.
znModeratorI don’t think that’s a catch.
January 11, 2015 at 5:28 pm in reply to: According to NFL.com Rex Ryan to coach the Buffalo Bills & Roman goes with him #16297
znModeratorIt’s interesting that Ryan and Fisher seem to prefer the same kinds of coordinatators.
What people say is true, though…Rex needs a qb.
znModeratorMy apology to Mack. I couldn’t delete the post so maybe a moderator can for me? Thanks.
Do you still want it deleted? (If so specify which post.) My feeling, though, is that you don’t have to worry about it. I think you made a simple misread and those just happen…among friends, like here, that’s just shrugged off. I will do as you wish but there’s no harm in just letting it sit, too. Up to you.
znModeratorTexts to sideline raise questions
The NFL is investigating whether text messages were sent to the Cleveland Browns’ sideline during games, league spokesman Michael Signora told ESPN.com on Friday.
Texting would be a violation of the NFL’s rules prohibiting electronic communication during games.
Signora did not elaborate except to say the league is looking into the matter.
“We are reviewing internally and will fully cooperate with the NFL on this matter,” the Browns said in a statement.
Though it’s not clear who sent the messages and who received them, a team source said the messages were subject of discussion among some players and coaches late in the season.
Cleveland.com originally reported the text messages were sent and said it was one issue in former offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan leaving the team. He perceived it as interference from the front office regarding coaching decisions.
Though no texts have become public, the messages regarded personnel decisions and play calls, the source said.
The league’s electronic devices rule states:
“This prohibition … applies to the use of any electronic communication devices, including but not limited to a cell phone, smart phone, tablet device, or any type of computer, whether online or stand-alone, including laptop and hand-held computers, in the coaches’ booths, on the sidelines, in the locker room (after kickoff), or in any other club-controlled area on game day beginning ninety (90) minutes prior to kickoff and continuing through the end of the game, including halftime (with the exception of League-issued tablets used for coaches’ still photos).
“Team doctors and members of the athletic training staff are permitted to use tablet devices, cell phones, smart phones, or similar devices within the bench area and locker room to communicate player injury information, but may not communicate competitive or strategic information.
“Club football operations staff members are permitted to use cell phones outside the coaches’ booths, bench areas, and locker rooms only when handling non-competitive and/or non-strategic communication.”
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