Ten questions as Rams open training camp

By Jim Thomas

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/ten-questions-as-rams-open-training-camp/article_751cd515-9e4d-5e52-91ea-e352e481d279.html

The Rams open training camp Friday with a new quarterback, a new offensive coordinator, and lots of new offensive linemen. By the end of the 2015 season, they may have a new address.

The defense, which returns intact, could be dominant. Both the head coach, Jeff Fisher, and general manager Les Snead feel this not only is the best Rams team they’ve had to work with but also a team that can legitimately compete for a playoff berth.

There are always questions surrounding every NFL team this time of year, and the Rams have their share. We pose 10 questions facing the 2015 Rams as they enter their 21st — and possibly last — season in St. Louis.

1. IS FOLES THE ANSWER?

In the midst of a contract dispute the Rams finally gave up on oft-injured Sam Bradford, shipping him to Philadelphia in March for Nick Foles in a trade that also included an exchange of draft picks. Which Foles are the Rams getting? The guy who threw 27 TD passes and a mere two interceptions en route to a Pro Bowl season in 2013? Or the so-so performer of a year ago who missed half the 2014 season with a broken collarbone? With only 24 starts, or the equivalent of 1 ½ seasons, it’s a small sample size. Learning the playbook and getting to know his teammates is the first order of business.

2. WILL YOUTH BE SERVED ON THE OFFENSIVE LINE?The Rams opened the 2014 season with a combined 366 career regular-season starts among their five O-line starters. Or an average of 73 starts per man. This year the Rams could easily open with just 72 career starts on their entire starting line. There could be an all-rookie right side of Rob Havenstein at right tackle and Jamon Brown at right guard. At center, Barrett Jones, Tim Barnes, and Demetrius Rhaney are all in the mix for the starting spot. Only Barnes has any starting experience among that trio, and we’re talking about only four starts in his case. This unit must grow up quickly.

3. WHEN IS IT TODD’S TIME?

The good news earlier in the week was that rookie RB Todd Gurley passed his conditioning test and begins training camp on the active roster. Just how much Gurley will contribute early in the season remains to be seen as he finishes off his rehab from knee surgery as a Georgia Bulldog. Look for the Rams to ease Gurley back into action, and it’s still questionable if he’ll play in the opener. There could be setbacks along the way, and players coming off ACL repairs frequently are better in their second season back. So don’t expect early-season miracles from the No. 10 overall pick.

4. WHAT CAN WE EXPECT FROM CIGNETTI?After three seasons of Brian Schottenheimer running the offense for Jeff Fisher, former quarterbacks coach Frank Cignetti has been bumped up to the coordinator’s position. Known as Cig or Cigs to the players and coaches, Cignetti has extensive coordinator’s experience at the college level but this is his first bite of the apple in the NFL. The Rams are emphasizing simplified terminology in play-calling, and in general a streamlined playbook. No doubt, Cignetti will have tweaks and wrinkles of his own, but the overall run-oriented philosophy comes straight from the Book of Fisher.

5. IS THERE ENOUGH AT WIDE RECEIVER?

The Rams finally have some seasoning in their WR corps, and this is a key year career-wise for several members of the unit. Tavon Austin has had some dazzling moments in his first two seasons but hasn’t lived up to his draft status (No. 8 overall) at this point. Is this the year he becomes fully integrated into the offense and enjoys a breakout campaign? And what about late-bloomer Brian Quick? He looked to be finally reaching his potential last season and was on pace to become the franchise’s first 1,000-yard receiver since Torry Holt in 2007. Then came a season-ending shoulder injury in Game 7.

6. CAN THE DEFENSE DOMINATE?This could be the year. In a league where personnel turnover is a way of life, all 11 starters are back on defense. That’s all but unheard of in the age of free agency. Not only that, but most of the key backups return as well. Free agent pickups Nick Fairley at defensive tackle and Akeem Ayers at outside linebacker bring even more talent to the mix. Over the final eight games of the 2014 season, the Rams were fifth in scoring defense, fourth in rushing defense, tied for fourth in sacks, and tied for sixth in takeaways. There’s no reason to think they can’t pick up where they left off.

7. HOW ABOUT WINNING IN SEPTEMBER FOR A CHANGE?

Slow starts have doomed the Rams in their first three seasons under Jeff Fisher. To a large degree, they’ve been out of the playoff hunt by the first frost. In all three seasons they’ve been 3-5 at midseason, and started 1-3 in 2014 and ‘13. The Rams need to reverse those numbers to win back at least some of the fans and give themselves a legitimate chance for a postseason berth. Fisher and his staff should have a better feel for what they have entering the season. And most of the young players have some seasoning. But 4 of the first 5 contests are against 2014 playoff teams, and three are on the road.

8. FISHER’S FUTURE IN DOUBT?Another slow start could mean a fourth consecutive losing season for Jeff Fisher, and not many coaches survive such a track record. The Rams have pulled off some memorable upsets under Fisher, and after the worst five-year stretch in NFL history from 2007-2011 under Scott Linehan, Jim Haslett, and Steve Spagnuolo (15-65), Fisher has gotten the franchise back to at least the neighborhood of respectability. Does Stan Kroenke want Fisher around to lead the team’s potential transfer to Los Angeles in 2016 no matter what? Or does Fisher, whose three-year mark here is 20-27-1, need to win in 2015?

9. WHO STAYS? WHO GOES?

Interwoven with what happens on the field in 2015 will be the business of football. The Rams have more than a dozen players scheduled for free agency after this season, including several starters. The volume of prospective free agents is something the team hasn’t had to face during the Les Snead-Jeff Fisher regime; it’s a byproduct of all the draft picks that came via the Robert Griffin III trade and assorted spinoff deals. Obviously, it takes more than a few minutes on the phone to work out new contracts. So the more players the Rams can re-sign before the end of ‘15, the better off they are.

10. CALIFORNIA DREAMING?No matter how much the coaches or players try to downplay it, the team’s potential relocation to Los Angeles will be the elephant in the room all season. In the big picture for the St. Louis area, it overshadows anything that will happen on the field this season. There will be key league meetings in August and October to discuss the topic, and by the end of the regular season we should have a pretty good idea of whether the Rams are staying or going. Who knows what developments will crop up before, after, and in between those league meetings? It’s difficult to imagine it not being a distraction.

Ten burning Rams questions: Is Nick Foles enough to get to playoffs?

Nick Wagoner, ESPN Staff Writer

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/19789/ten-burning-rams-questions-is-nick-foles-enough-to-get-to-playoffs

EARTH CITY, Mo. — Training camps around the league are either already underway or will be before the end of the week. The St. Louis Rams officially get underway on Friday.

In the days leading up to the start of camp, we’ll take a look at 10 burning questions facing the Rams as they head toward the 2015 season.

No. 2: Can Nick Foles be enough of an upgrade at quarterback to make the Rams contenders?

If nothing else, the Rams’ decision to trade Sam Bradford for Foles in March injected some new life into an offense desperately in need of some. From here, comparisons between Foles and Bradford will be unavoidable as Bradford takes the reins in Philadelphia and Foles does the same in St. Louis.

But really, for those attempting to evaluate Foles’ impact on his new team, Bradford comparisons shouldn’t be the baseline. Foles isn’t really replacing Bradford, who didn’t play a regular-season snap for the Rams after the midpoint of the 2013 season. Rather, Foles should be held up against the likes of Kellen Clemens, Austin Davis and Shaun Hill.

In that regard, it would be a surprise if Foles doesn’t exceed the productivity of the backups that have been under center for the Rams in the past season and a half.

The question then becomes will having Foles be enough of an upgrade — given all the other moving parts on the offense — to elevate the Rams to playoff contention?

Assuming Foles is able to stay healthy, he should be a good fit for what the Rams expect of their quarterback in a run-heavy offense. Foles won’t be asked to carry the load for the offense by throwing 40 to 50 times a game. His primary focus will be on keeping turnovers to a minimum and taking advantage of deep ball opportunities when they arise.

More specifically, much of what the Rams hope for from Foles will come in the play-action game. That could be an ideal match considering Foles’ success in that area. Since 2013, Foles leads all quarterbacks with 23 touchdowns on play-action passes. If Todd Gurley and the running game can get rolling, Foles should have ample opportunity to take advantage of play-action.

In 2014, Davis and Hill each went 3-5 as the starter, combining for 3,658 yards, 20 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. The yardage and touchdown totals are probably reasonable expectations for Foles but to get the Rams into playoff contention, he’ll need to reduce the interception total by about half. Even more to the point, he’ll need to cut down on the type of back-breaking turnovers that turned into touchdowns for the defense.

Rams quarterbacks threw six interceptions and coughed up two fumbles that were returned for touchdowns in 2014, miscues that often either proved the difference on the scoreboard or allowed a close game to get away.

Foles’ job won’t be easy, especially with three new starters on the offensive line and a new coordinator in place but if he proves capable of taking care of the ball and offering the occasional big play in the passing game, it would go a long way toward getting the Rams back to the postseason for the first time since 2004.

Snead believes this could be the Rams’ year

By Jim Thomas

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/snead-believes-this-could-be-the-rams-year/article_0b16badf-ab07-585c-9486-3f4e1b38f712.html

Last year at this time, Rams general manager Les Snead talked about the third year being the charm, citing examples of other rebuilding jobs in past NFL seasons around the league that clicked in Year 3.

Well, you know the story. Quarterback Sam Bradford suffered a season-ending knee injury in the Rams’ third preseason game, and things went downhill from there. The result was a 6-10 record, the worst finish in the three years of the Jeff Fisher-Snead regime in St. Louis.

Year 4 for that tandem is now upon us, and Snead remains as optimistic as ever.

As Fisher told the Post-Dispatch on Wednesday, Snead told a media gathering Thursday at Rams Park that he feels the 2015 edition is the most talented of the four Fisher-Snead squads.

“You know what? I actually do,” Snead said. “I’m not going to speak about it a ton because you’re tired of hearing about it. But you started in a pretty deep hole here.”

That was a reference, of course, to the roster he and Fisher inherited after the 2011 season and the fact that the Rams had gone 15-65 from 2007-11.

“But since ‘12, we’re third in win-percentage improvement, only behind Denver and Seattle,” Snead said. “It’s an interesting stat – we just started a lot lower down the hill than they did. But it has shown some progress.

“And there’s some adversity. You didn’t plan on 25 straight (games) with your backup quarterback. You’ve gotta always overcome it. The league usually wins about 26 percent of the games with a backup QB, and in that time we won 40 percent. And we’ve done all this with a young team.”

Those are interesting numbers. But the only numbers that matter are the wins and losses – more precisely, having more wins than losses.

“We’re close,” Snead said. “I can feel it. . . . I anticipate us contending for the West. I’m planning on it, expecting it, and not scared.”

The thought of facing Seattle, Arizona, and even a depleted San Francisco roster twice a year in the NFC West can be scary. But with a defense that returns basically intact, a new quarterback in Nick Foles, and a roster than can be characterized as young but seasoned, Snead feels this can be that long-elusive “over the hump” year for the Rams.

With a healthy Foles, Snead feels the Rams can be a legit playoff contender.

“I would anticipate that,” Snead said. “Nick’s won 63 percent of his games. . . .Once Nick became available (via trade), that made it very intriguing because the guy, he’s actually taken a team to the playoffs.”

Snead, by the way, said contract extension talks with Foles are ongoing and that it’s “definitely realistic” to think Foles could have a new Rams contract by the end of the 2015 season.

Switching to defense, Snead said he expects to see a dominant group.

“They did a heck of a job last year, when they tipped and turned and got to gel,” he said, referring the second-half surge last season. “It was fun to watch. The goal is to carry that over into this year, and sooner rather than later. . . . I don’t know if I’ve been around a defense like this one.”

The defense may have to carry the squad early in the season as Foles settles in, Todd Gurley completes his knee rehab at running back, and the ultra-young offensive line adjusts to life in the NFL.

“You would love for them, as we gel on offense, to be the bell cow,” Snead said. “Just on paper, that would be the ideal scenario. The defense kind of pulls some weight as our offense gels, and then once they gel – let’s roll.”

But as is the case with Fisher, Snead could feel job pressure if the team doesn’t contend in the West or make a legitimate playoff push.

“Never think about,” Snead said. “I get what you’re saying: It’s Year 4 of your tenure. But you’re actually more jacked about it because you actually feel good about the foundation and where we’re going. It just hasn’t occurred yet.”

With a 20-27-1 record over three seasons here, there’s no time like the present.

Jim Thomas Talks Rams’ Training Camp, Todd Gurley and Young Offensive Line

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/STLSports/STLRams/tabid/137/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/18503/Jim-Thomas-Talks-Rams-Training-Camp-Todd-Gurley-and-Young-Offensive-Line.aspx

St. Louis Post-Dispatch beat writer Jim Thomas joined The Wendy’s Big Show on Thursday to discuss several Rams topics on the eve of 2015 training camp, including the health of first-round pick Todd Gurley.

Read notable quotes and listen to the full interview below:

On Todd Gurley passing his conditioning test:

“Tuesday they had their conditioning test and it’s a pair of 300-yard dashes. But you do them in 25-year intervals…up to 300 yards. And then you get to rest for three or four minutes and you do it all over again. It was brutally hot day…Gurley lit it up there. He looked very impressive there. He’s going to be on the active roster on the start of training camp. That’s an indication he’s a little closer to playing on opening day, but I don’t think it guarantees it. But at least he’ll be doing some practice work Friday afternoon. He’ll be doing some of the individual drills, maybe some of the seven-on-seven stuff. It’ll help him get indoctrinated into NFL football. There’s always an adjustment period when you learn what the NFL is like.”

More on Gurley:

“He’s had more of a pro-style and more exposure to pass-blocking (in college), so mentally he should be fine. Physically is a different matter. I can’t even stay for sure…that he’s going to be playing in any of the preseason games or opening day. We’re not going to see Todd Gurley get 20 or 25 touches in September. They’re still going to be pretty conservative with him.”

On the inexperienced Rams offensive line:

“My time of covering the team…they’ve never had a line this young. They firmly expect Rob Havenstein – the second-round pick – the starting right tackle. Jamon Brown – the third-round pick – he’s the starting right guard. At center, you’re going to have either Demetrious Rainey, Tim Barnes or Barrett Jones. That’s a very inexperienced group as well. You’re almost talking about three rookies on the offensive line. I have a little bit of skepticism on how it’s going to work out. But that’s what they planned to do and let’s see how it works out. You’ll see these rookies play more in the preseason than a normal starting lineman would. And they have one of the best defensive lines in NFL going against them every day in practice. If they don’t get demoralized doing that, that’ll be a great learning curve.”

Rams GM Les Snead: Deal with QB Nick Foles ‘definitely realistic’

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/19844/rams-gm-les-snead-deal-with-qb-nick-foles-definitely-realistic

Nick Wagoner, ESPN Staff Writer

EARTH CITY, Mo. — As players around the NFL ponder shutting down negotiations or even potentially holding out for a new contract, the St. Louis Rams and quarterback Nick Foles have continued dialogue on a new deal.

At the moment, nothing appears imminent but general manager Les Snead said Thursday that it’s still possible something will get done with Foles before the end of the season. In other words, negotiations might not shut down once the season starts.

“Oh yes, I think it’s definitely realistic,” Snead said. “I think both parties philosophically, us as an organization and … he’s getting to that point where he wants to focus on football and let’s roll. And hey, let the chips fall where they may.

“I do think he’s excited about what’s around him. He thinks we’ll all be successful and that usually means success for the individual as well.”

During organized team activities (OTAs) last month, the Rams openly acknowledged that they had interest in signing Foles to a contract extension despite his never having played in a game for them. They traded quarterback Sam Bradford to the Philadelphia Eagles for Foles and draft pick compensation in March, offering little time to evaluate Foles aside from what they saw on tape.

Getting a deal done with Foles would actually offer an interesting precedent. Quarterbacks with even a modicum of starting success — let alone a season in which they threw 27 touchdowns and just two interceptions two years ago — rarely get traded. In Foles’ case, he’s coming off a drop-off in production and an injury but the Rams believed enough in him to part with a former No. 1 overall pick and doubled down by establishing that he could be their quarterback for the long term.

All of that after only spending a couple of months in Foles’ presence. But while it’s certainly unusual for a team to want to sign a mostly unproven quarterback to a big-money deal without having seen him play for your team, there are a couple of reasons the Rams have interest in getting a deal done.

First and foremost, Snead said the Rams are impressed with what they’ve seen, even in a small sample size.

“The first day you go in the building and throw with receivers and no coaches, whatever phase that may be, it seems like from that day that skill group was like ‘Wow, we love this guy,'” Snead said. “It’s not like he had been the quarterback here for two years, you had a case of his first day at school, hello to everybody, we don’t know each other. He kind of took charge there. You can tell those guys will battle, he’s done a nice job with leadership. That’s the biggest thing I can say about him.”

There are also economical reasons for a deal to get done. From the Rams’ side, signing Foles to a contract before he plays for them would eliminate the chance he could have a huge 2015 season and drive his price up. That could mean getting him at a relative bargain compared to some of the lucrative deals other signal-callers have signed recently.

For his part, Foles said in the spring that he’d be open to getting something done with the Rams and didn’t have plans to play out the season and “bet on” himself in hopes of upping the ante on a potential deal.

So theoretically, the Rams and Foles could strike a deal that allows the Rams to pay as they go while giving Foles a chance to gain some security.

And if Foles enters the season without a deal and proceeds to light it up, well, that’s not such a bad thing either.

“I always go to this, hey if a QB is playing well and you’re winning, having team success, you have no problem asking your owner to write the check,” Snead said. “They’ve earned it, they’ve done it, so that’s what makes this one a little bit interesting.”

wv wrote:

I ran over a baby spotted deer the other day.
Very bad day, that was.
It just shot out into the road,
and that was that.

w
v

That’s terrible.

At least you didn’t go abroad and kill a celebrated lion.

wv wrote:

You do not have deer, apparently.

w
v

Yeah we do, though. And I mean the big “last of the mohicans” style white tailed deer. In the neighborhood in fact. You have to look at deer resistant plants when planning a garden.

When it’s a dry summer the deer will target big asiatic lily buds, and eat them just before they bloom. It happened in the garden a couple of summers ago. Fortunately–or, fortunately if you want to see the lilies–it hasn’t been dry the last couple of summers.

I see deer on the roads probably 3, 4 times a year.

Don Yee says shift to “destroyed” cell phone was expected

Mike Florio

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/29/don-yee-says-shift-to-destroyed-cell-phone-was-expected/

On the same day that the NFLPA fired back at the NFL in court, Patriots quarterback Tom Brady’s agent went on the offensive, too.

Don Yee, who made some questionable arguments in the aftermath of the publication of the Ted Wells report, shared plenty of information in a discussion with Tom Curran of CSNNE.com.

“They shifted from PSI to the new shiny object, the cell phone,” Yee said of the ruling upholding the four-game suspension. “We expected this. Because this was the easy way to pivot off the junk science and get off the PSI issue. And we knew that from a newsworthiness standpoint, the general public might be easily fooled. But in the coming days — just like the Wells Report being picked apart after its issuance — the same thing happens with this.”

If Yee knew that the cell phone would become a red herring, it would have been smarter for Yee to get ahead of the notion that “Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone” before the NFL could unleash that mantra in masterful fashion, winning the P.R. battle with a one-punch knockout.

Then again, maybe Yee didn’t take the lead on the topic because he possibly would have been leading with his chin. Consider the explanation from Yee to Curran about what happened with the phone.

“What happened is this,” Yee said. “After Goodell decided to take the appeal and publicly asked for new information, we were under the authority of the actual Commissioner, not private investigators with dubious authority. We decided to provide him with the new information. This was in June. The information that Wells requested covered September 2014 to February 28, 2015. The first thing we did in June was say, ‘Holy cow, do we have a cell phone left from that time period?’ because Tom regularly cycles through phones. We happened to find one and we tested that phone and found it covered the period October through November.

“In a letter to Goodell, we told him that we don’t have any other phones that cover November through March. We believe Tom may have cycled through a phone. We were the ones that disclosed this issue. Meaning that if Tom Brady was trying to hide something, why would we voluntarily disclose that fact? . . .

“It wasn’t until February 28 that Ted Wells’ team sent us an e-mail asking for contents off Tom’s phone. They never asked for the actual device. Ted Wells, in his May 12 press conference actually said that — he emphasized that. They didn’t want the actual device. On March 2, we wrote back to Ted Wells and told him we considered his request for information off the phone and we declined his request. On March 3, they said they hoped we would reconsider. They knew going into the March 6 hearing that they were not going to get the actual device. They knew that.”

So, from Yee’s perspective, it doesn’t matter what Brady did with the phone after March 3, because he wasn’t giving it to Wells as part of the investigation.

“Why did Tom cycle through a phone that week?” Yee said. “It turns out he just got back to the country after taking a trip. Why did he cycle through the phone that week? The iPhone 6 was coming out. [Brady] happened to want a new phone and knew Ted Wells’ team didn’t want the actual device, they only wanted information from the device.”

That’s where Yee’s explanation gets a little wobbly. For starters, the iPhone six came out months before March 2015. (In fairness, it came out in September, so Brady perhaps decided to wait until after the season to get one.) Also, if Wells wanted not the device but the information from it, Brady should have retained the data card.

Yee explained that Brady nevertheless equipped Goodell with the information necessary to reconstruct the text messages.

“We compiled all of Tom’s personal cell phone billing records from his vendor from September through the end of February 2015,” Yee said. “The records detail every incoming and outgoing phone call. Every incoming and outgoing text. We submitted that to the Commissioner. They would then be able to determine were there any other communications with Patriots personnel that were not outlined in the Wells Report. Everything matched up perfectly with the Wells Report with the exception of three texts between Tom and [John] Jastrzemski on February 7, and that was only because Wells had given Jastrzemski’s phone back [on] February 7. As far as any texts prior to the AFC Championship Game, where any alleged scheming would have taken place, Ted Wells would have had any communications between Tom, Jastrzemski and [Jim] McNally. This personal phone billing record compiled by an independent third party shows that he had no communications at all with McNally.

“In an effort to be even more transparent, we decided to offer to the Commissioner to disclose the identities of everyone that Tom communicated with. We said that some of these individuals are NFL-related personnel and that the Commissioner has the power to compel a search of their phone to see if they have texts remaining on their phone from Tom. The Commissioner’s own decision in footnote 11 acknowledges this and says they thought it was impractical to conduct this search. The amount of NFL-related personnel that the league needed to consult, if they so chose, was 28 people. Which is not very many people. And a number of those people they had information from already. Tom texted from December 24 to February 24 these NFL-related personnel. Ten teammates, two current coaches, five former teammates, one NFL Network personnel, five front-office personnel and five other Patriots employees. A number of them, the league had the authority to say, ‘Check your cell phone, we want any text exchanges between you and Tom Brady from that period.’ They chose not to. I don’t know why.”

The answer could be that accepting this offer would rob the NFL of the “Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone” silver bullet, which delivered on Tuesday a conclusive win in the court of public opinion.

But the inevitable pushback has commenced, and this red state/blue state issue will continue to polarize fans until it is finally resolved in court. And beyond.

More issues in Seattle.

Though it strikes me that Seattle always appears to have turmoil at or near the surface but then seem to handle it on the field.

———-

Report: Kam Chancellor wants more money, threatens holdout

Michael David Smith

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/29/report-kam-chancellor-wants-more-money-threatens-holdout/

Seattle safety Kam Chancellor may not be there when the Seahawks report to training camp.

Chancellor wants more money and has told the Seahawks he is strongly considering a holdout, Ian Rapoport of NFL Network reports.

The 27-year-old Chancellor still has three seasons remaining on the contract he signed in 2013 and is scheduled to count $5.65 million against the Seahawks’ salary cap this year, so he wouldn’t appear at first blush to have a lot of leverage.

But he’s an important part of the league’s best defense, and he becomes even more important with the Seahawks’ secondary depleted by the shoulder injury suffered by Earl Thomas in the Super Bowl, an injury that may keep Thomas out at the start of the regular season. And the Seahawks showed last year with Marshawn Lynch that they’re willing to re-do a player’s deal if that’s what they need to do to get that player in camp.

So Chancellor might have a shot at a raise if he plays his cards right. And if he holds out for a significant period of time, the Seahawks will be scrambling at safety.

===================

from off the net

==

guinnessram

Polian: Seahawks have opened a Pandora’s box with Lynch. Ironically, this statement came out of a discussion about Luck’s contract. He said that when he was GM they wouldn’t negotiate a contract until the current one runs out (The Colts are continuing that policy).

He then brought up the fact that the Seahawks renegotiated Lynch’s contract a year before it ran out, and now Cam Chancellor (3 yrs left on an extension) and Michael Bennett (2 yrs) are asking for new contracts. To support his theory, NFLN is reporting that Cam is “considering holding out of training camp”, which starts tomorrow.

When another NFL Insider pointed out that Lynch is the lynchpin (no pun intended) of their offense and was threatening to retire, Polian responded with a resounding “I DON’T CARE!” He said that Chancellor is very popular in the locker room and is one of (Earl Bennet) the catalysts of the defense, which is where they have been putting all their cap $$$ due to Wilson’s low cap hit. He reiterated that even the great Peyton Manning played out his contract before renegotiating under his regime.

My take: Chancellor & Bennett are both trying to cash in B4 the Hawks sign Wilson. After that, Hawks can shrug their shoulders and say: “We just don’t have the cap space to negotiate, never mind renegotiate.”

All the Insiders agreed that once Wilson is paid what he is due, Seattle is going to have a lot of trouble keeping their back to back SB team.

zn wrote:

REST OF THE ARTICLE IS ON ESPN INSIDER

Which is now…here:

——————-

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/13261036/league-insiders-rank-32-starting-quarterbacks-tiers-nfl

Welcome to our second annual “Quarterback Tiers” project, with a voting panel of 35 league insiders (up from 26 last year). The process was straightforward: The coaches and evaluators I polled placed each of the 32 projected starters into one of five tiers, with Tier 1 reserved for the very best and Tier 5 reserved for the very worst.

While it’s far from rigid, our NFL front office and coach voters typically categorized the tiers as follows:

• Tier 1 quarterbacks can carry their teams week after week and contend for championships without as much help.
• Tier 2 QBs are less consistent and need more help, but good enough to figure prominently into a championship equation.
• Tier 3 are quarterbacks who are good enough to start but need lots of support, making it tougher to contend at the highest level.
• Tier 4 is typically reserved for unproven starters or those who might not be expected to last in the lineup all season. Voters used the fifth tier sparingly.

We gave the insiders anonymity so they could speak candidly. They did not disappoint. The 35th and final insider, a longtime defensive coordinator, could not believe it when I told him five of the previous 34 had left Andrew Luck outside the top tier on their ballots. “Those five guys didn’t play against him. He is a 1, I am telling you. He is f—— good. Nobody blocks anybody up front, and he is still good.”

In the end, we averaged the tier rankings for each quarterback to produce a 1-32 ranking across four tiers (no starting QBs received enough Tier 5 votes to fall into the fifth tier). There was movement in the pecking order from our piece last year. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees slipped. Luck and Ben Roethlisberger surged. Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady held firm and were the only unanimous Tier 1 players. And perhaps surprisingly, Derek Carr holds an early lead on Teddy Bridgewater among the 2014 draftees.

There’s a lot to digest, so we won’t delay any longer. First, though, a big thank you to our panel: eight personnel directors, six general managers, four head coaches, five offensive coordinators, five defensive coordinators, three salary-cap managers, one ex-GM, two ex-head coaches, and one offensive assistant coach.

Tier 1 (6 QBs total)

One D-coordinator on Rodgers: “I hate playing against him.” Ronald Martinez/Getty Images

T-1. Aaron Rodgers | Green Bay Packers

Average rating: 1.0 | Change in rating: +3.7%

2014 Rank: T-1

Rodgers tied with Brady in the voting as a unanimous Tier 1 choice, but he gets top billing based on feedback from voters. A personnel director with NFC North experience called him “unequivocally” the best in the league. An offensive coach who studied every offensive snap for Green Bay and New England last season called Rodgers better than Brady by a noticeable notch.

“I hate playing against him,” a defensive coordinator said.

There is a lot to like about Rodgers if you don’t have to face him. He seems unflappable. He saves plays with his legs. He ranks as arguably the game’s best back-shoulder fade thrower. He possesses superior vision when forced to move. And he knows where his receivers are going to be in a pinch. These are some of the qualities one veteran coach rattled off.

“From the time he decides to throw the ball to the time it comes off his hand is the quickest in the NFL by a lot,” this coach said. “Tony Romo is also quick, but Rodgers throws spirals down the field that carry. Romo will do it and it will float. Rodgers doesn’t even have to try. He is so explosively quick. He can hold the ball longer and he knows it.”

It’s no revelation seeing Rodgers atop a list of NFL quarterbacks, so I pressed this offensive coach for additional details.

“Andrew Luck has the best technique and Rodgers is a little more toesy [in his stance], but it makes no difference because Rodgers is so lightning quick and so accurate and confident of where the ball is going to go,” he said. “There is an attention to detail there that Mike McCarthy coaches and gets everyone to understand the importance of. Rodgers cuts everything loose all the time because he knows where everyone is going to be. It does not feel like a defeat to him to run it or throw the 2-yard check-down. He throws it joyfully because he knows he is moving the offense. There is also never any drama, ever. That is another best part of him. He does not say much, but he is so focused and so passionate that he gets it done with his eyeballs.”

One head coach on Brady: “His command is there. He still has the arm strength and accuracy.” Elsa/Getty Images

T-1. Tom Brady | New England Patriots

Average rating: 1.0 | Change in rating: +3.7%

2014 Rank: T-1

None of the voters had reservations about placing Brady into the top tier as the quarterback’s 38th birthday approaches, and likewise, none raised Deflategate as a factor in voting.

“Brady is still on another level because he just mentally dominates every game, every time,” an offensive coach said.

Brady struggled early last season when his line faltered and his best receiving target, Rob Gronkowski, was still rounding into form following injury. But he didn’t let a brutal outing against Kansas City in Week 4 define his season.

“K.C. knocked the s— out of him and you could see he got frustrated in that game,” a personnel director said. “He came back the next week against Cincinnati and was unbelievable. I was like, ‘Holy s—, this guy is unreal.’ He is still a 1. He is doing it with very average weapons other than Gronk.”

Another personnel director said he thought Peyton Manning might have suffered a meltdown by now if forced to go through as many weapons as Brady has over the years. This director hailed Brady for functioning at a high level with Wes Welker, Julian Edelman and even undrafted free agents at receiver.

“If anybody is a 1, he is a 1,” the director said. “I do not know if we could name all the guys who have started at the skill positions for them over the past three years. I’d probably leave out three guys.”

The Patriots have had 25 different players start at running back, wide receiver or tight end since 2012, counting playoffs. That ties for the fifth-highest total in the league and is above the 20.9 average. The number is 15 for Manning’s Denver Broncos, the second-lowest figure in the NFL (Philadelphia, 14). Brady has had 12 different wide receivers start over that span, the second-highest figure in the league (Jacksonville, 14). Denver has had six, tied for the league low.

“He is still a 1,” a head coach said. “His command is there. He still has the arm strength and accuracy. He never was a great move guy, but he still makes a play or two with his feet as needed.”

One personnel director on Luck: “He is one of the great pressure performers in our league.” Ron Chenoy/USA TODAY Sports

3. Andrew Luck | Indianapolis Colts

Average rating: 1.14 | Change in rating: +23.8%

2014 Rank: 5

Luck went from a disputed Tier 1 QB one year ago to a resounding choice after again carrying a weak roster to the postseason.

“Luck didn’t get a 1 from everybody?” a GM asked. He was incredulous. “You want to talk about a guy who makes the team? He is Michael Jordan. Their defense sucks. Every game, he has to outscore everybody. He is the epitome of a 1. If I was to draft tomorrow any player in the NFL, it would be Andrew Luck one, Aaron Rodgers two.”

The five voters who placed Luck in the second tier cited a few reasons. Some thought Luck needed to do a better job protecting the football. Others pointed to Luck’s underwhelming resume in the postseason. Luck also benefits from playing in a weak division. (One defensive coordinator’s response: “Those five guys didn’t play against him.”)

“It is almost like we are giving him the benefit of the doubt just in terms of numbers, but he has won games,” another GM said. “Yes, he is in an easy division, but he won, even as a rookie. They would not win without him.”

Some quarterbacks with winning records benefit from top-flight defenses and/or strong running games. Luck has won even with the Colts being especially weak in those complementary phases.

“I don’t know who didn’t give Luck a 1, but he is better than all of them,” a head coach said. “He is as smart as Peyton, he is as accurate as Brady, he is tougher than Ben and he is as athletic as RG III.”

Even those who thought Luck deserved a second-tier vote at this point felt as though he would ascend into the top tier before long.

“Luck is one of the great pressure performers in our league,” a personnel director said. “He might have spells where accuracy is not great, but when the chips are on the line, he performs. For a young quarterback to survive some of the hits he has taken behind that line, not everyone would have done that. He is strong. He has an even head, which you have to have to be special at that position. I’d be surprised if soon we’re not talking about him in same breath we talk about Aaron.”

One head coach on Roethlisberger: “The productivity is unbelievable. He is clearly a 1 to me.” Justin K. Aller/Getty Images

4. Ben Roethlisberger | Pittsburgh Steelers

Average rating: 1.37 | Change in rating: +25.7%

2014 Rank: 7

Roethlisberger ascended into the top tier after ranking with Philip Rivers atop the second tier one year ago. His ability to carry the Steelers without support from a strong defense raised Big Ben’s profile for some. A head coach said he thought Roethlisberger would have belonged in the top tier for most of his career if the Steelers had run a more wide-open offense earlier in his career.

“He throws to win games by himself and he can do it every week,” an offensive coach said. “He could throw for 350 every week. I did not give him his due until I really saw this past year, with the average defense and only one top receiver, getting it done every week and keeping his interceptions down.”

An evaluator with coaching experience who saw Roethlisberger play live twice last season moved him into the top tier on his ballot.

“He is back to standing there, shrugging off the blitz, sliding over, making the pass, over and over,” this evaluator said. “He threw for over 600 yards with six touchdowns against Baltimore. When you can do that against what has been a good defense historically, that is a 1, and I don’t want to play him.”

Roethlisberger has topped 630 dropbacks in each of the past two regular seasons, while averaging 37.3 pass attempts per game, up from 29.6 per game previously in his career. Roethlisberger also has the playing strength and arm to carry the offense in poor weather.

“Ben can beat you in any part of the country,” a head coach said. “Who was in a more productive offense last year? The productivity is unbelievable. He is clearly a 1 to me.”

A defensive coordinator placed Roethlisberger among the 2s because he thought consistency over time was an issue.

“I could see why people would say he is a 1,” this coordinator said. “On some days, I could see it. I would see him spending more time in the 2 category, and that is why I put him there.”

One D-coordinator on Manning: “He is still smart and that will never change, but you have to get the ball there, too.” Andrew Weber/USA TODAY Sports

5. Peyton Manning | Denver Broncos

Average rating: 1.43 | Change in rating: -37.6%

2014 Rank: T-1

Some of the voters who placed Manning in the top tier did so reluctantly because they questioned whether he could still carry an offense for a full season given what they saw as obviously diminished throwing ability.

“I’m going to give him the lowest 1 that there is,” one voter said.

A GM who placed Manning in the top tier added this disclaimer: “I can see people saying he is a 2. The arm strength is such an issue. It is all about how you play in January, in the cold weather and big games.”

A head coach who placed Manning in the second tier said he no longer thought Manning could lead a team to a championship without getting considerably more help than he has needed in the past. Still, voters expressed amazement over Manning’s ability to play at such a high level in recent seasons after enduring a career-threatening neck injury. And he still received enough votes to remain in this category.

“Until they lose and don’t go to the playoffs, he is a 1,” a defensive coach said, “because he is the one winning all the games. He has gotta be a 1. He is one of those guys, too, that the people around him play at a much higher level because of him.”

One defensive coordinator pointed to Manning’s 2014 stat line — 4,727 yards passing with 39 touchdowns and a 101.5 passer rating — while asking what more a quarterback needed to do for voters to place him in the top tier. One counter: Manning’s late-season struggles. He had 10 interceptions over the final eight regular-season games, tied for third-most in the NFL.

“I think he is a clear 2,” another defensive coordinator said. “It’s arm strength, mobility, everything. He is still smart and that will never change, but you have to get the ball there, too.”

One offensive coordinator on Brees: “He is just losing his juice. Things have to be perfect for him to be himself.” AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast

6. Drew Brees | New Orleans Saints

Average rating: 1.49 | Change in rating: -43.1%

2014 Rank: T-1

Brees nearly fell out of the top tier even though his 71.6 Total QBR score in 2014 was the third-highest mark of his nine-year tenure with the Saints. Some thought he deserved another year as a 1 because the team’s struggles last season had more to do with a diminished supporting cast on both sides of the ball.

“Brees was one of the hardest,” an offensive coordinator said. “He doesn’t throw as well. His lower body is not as good. He’s been nicked up a little bit. He is just losing his juice. Things have to be perfect for him to be himself.”

The consensus was that Brees had fallen off and that he was sliding into the second tier if he hadn’t quite reached it at this point. His drop from a 1.04 average rating among voters in 2014 to a 1.49 average this year marked a 43.1-percent decline, the largest for any of the 27 returning starters.

Voters acknowledged the diminished weaponry around Brees. A coach who studied the Saints this offseason said it was striking to see Brees “hung out to dry” playing for a team that no longer had as many opportunities to shift into its four-minute offense while protecting leads.

“Physically, he is a 2, but I think you have to give him a 1 because he can carry a team,” a head coach said, still thinking through his decision. “He may dip into the 2s this year. When guys get older and start getting hit, especially guys with vision problems, they start playing a lot faster, almost too fast, and panic shows up. I saw some of that in Drew last season.”

By the end of the conversation, the head coach had talked himself out of putting Brees in the top tier. “I’ll tell you what,” he said, “give him a 2 because I think he has just kind of come out of the 1 category.”

Tier 2 (8 QBs total)

One head coach on Rivers: “I have never seen a guy make up for a lack of arm strength as well as him.” AP Photo/Ben Margot

7. Philip Rivers | San Diego Chargers

Average rating: 1.66 | Change in rating: +6.3%

2014 Rank: 6

Rivers placed solidly into the top of the second tier, but voters wouldn’t argue strongly against including him in that top group. In Rivers, they see a supreme competitor who does a fantastic job compensating for physical limitations that might keep him from projecting into the top tier, especially at this stage.

“He’s got everything, but he does not have the big-time arm, and I have not given anyone a 1 who did not have a real arm,” a head coach said. “I have never seen a guy make up for a lack of arm strength as well as him. There are balls he has thrown so early that look so bad and you’re like, ‘What?’ The linebacker is here and the receiver is here and he throws this f—— duck all the way over here and you are like, ‘Are you kidding?’ He has had some anticipation throws like none other.”

An offensive coordinator who placed Rivers into the top tier compared him favorably to Brady and Manning, noting that all of them can play below a top-tier level if their supporting casts fall off enough. Should a player in the top tier be able to overcome those things? Only to a point, voters tended to agree.

“I don’t think Philip can win the game on his own all the time,” an offensive coordinator said. “Drew still can. I do not think they have a lot of supporting cast around him. He can create some things.”

A head coach said there are times when Rivers tries too hard, to the point that opponents “have in the back of their minds the idea he will force something at some point and give you an opportunity.” A defensive coordinator described Rivers as one who “teeters” between the first and second tier.

“I love him,” a personnel director said. “He is no doubt a 2. Last year, I would have said he was a 1. I would have taken him over Peyton a year ago. He just could not overcome all the problems they had this past year. Playing behind a crap line, all the injuries, no weapons. He scares you when you play him. I could stick him at a 1 level. A year ago, I would do it unequivocally.”

One offensive coordinator on Wilson: “He is up there with Aaron and Luck because of his uniqueness and all the s— he can do.” AP Photo/Elaine Thompson

8. Russell Wilson | Seattle Seahawks

Average rating: 1.71 | Change in rating: +23.2%

2014 Rank: T-8

Last year, more than one-third of voters placed Wilson in the third tier, questioning whether he could carry a pass-oriented offense week after week, as the better quarterbacks have been able to do. Only one voter placed Wilson in the third tier this time, as other voters acknowledged the role Wilson played in the Seahawks reaching back-to-back Super Bowls. In total, 11 of 35 voters said Wilson was a 1, up from three of 26 voters one year ago.

“At the end of the day, the won-lost record of your quarterback and the leadership goes hand-in-hand,” a former GM said. “He has been in the last two Super Bowls. You can say all you want about the defense, but the Bills had a good defense the last two years. What did it get them? Wilson has that late-game magic.”

Why did one coordinator leave Wilson in the third tier?

“Because I think he needs Marshawn Lynch and the defense [to be great] to do what he has done,” the coordinator replied. That same coordinator said his college scouting report on Wilson read like a report would read for a top-tier prospect, but he gave a lower grade overall based on concerns over Wilson’s height. An offensive coach said “the bubble is going to burst” for Wilson if the day comes when the team needs him to throw the ball frequently.

“He is not a 1,” a head coach said. “He cannot win the whole thing. Is that why they are not paying him? I think you could make an argument to put him down as a 3, but I would say he is a 2. The running back and the tight end can help him. If you can make the game one-dimensional for him where he has to be a total pocket passer, it gets tough. Green Bay had four interceptions on him [in the NFC Championship].”

Another head coach called Wilson a 1 in Seattle’s current system, but a 2 in any other. A defensive coordinator who placed Wilson in the top tier said he thought Wilson could succeed as primarily a pocket passer. He called Wilson a winner and a player able to make every throw needed. He also thought throwing from the pocket consistently wasn’t necessarily a requirement.

“They do not make him sit in the pocket and win games, but his combination of smarts, poise and athletic ability makes him a 2,” a GM said. “I think he is a good 2. I do not see him taking over games from a throwing standpoint. He is in the right place because of the defense and run game, which plays to his strengths.”

An offensive coordinator who has worked with traditional pocket passers placed Wilson in the top tier without reservation. Rodgers, Brady, Luck, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Romo, Joe Flacco and both Mannings were also 1s on this coordinator’s ballot.

“If they were throwing it like New Orleans, he’d have as many yards as Brees,” this coordinator said. “He beats you doing the things he does. He is a 1, and he is up there with Aaron and Luck because of his uniqueness and all the s— he can do.”

One personnel director on Romo: “Unequivocally, he is a top 6-7 quarterback.” Rob Carr/Getty Images

9. Tony Romo | Dallas Cowboys

Average rating: 1.83 | Change in rating: +18%

2014 Rank: T-8

Romo produced like a top-tier quarterback last season when the Cowboys supported him with a dominant ground game, averaging 31.5 dropbacks per game, down from 40.9 over the past two seasons combined. The new approach put less pressure on Romo to make riskier throws.

“Last year’s formula was outstanding for him and I’m wondering why they have not done that forever,” an offensive coordinator said. “I do not care how sexy he looks throwing, he is a 2 to me because I know if it ends up in his hands, it is 50-50 [whether] he is going to make the big mistake.”

The numbers don’t necessarily support Romo being unreliable in crunch time. In fact, since 2011, Romo ranks second to Brees in Total QBR among 11 qualifying quarterbacks during fourth quarters and overtimes with the score tied or his team trailing by no more than eight points. His .500 winning percentage in those games (16-16 record) is best in the league over that span among those 11 quarterbacks.

“Solid 2 all day long,” an offensive coach said. “Last year, he played like a 1 because they ran it and kept it out of his hands. That helped him and his interceptions went under 10. Romo, Flacco and [Matt] Ryan are just such solid 2s, but it seems to me Romo has done more.”

Three defensive coordinators placed Romo in the top tier, as did one head coach, one offensive coordinator, a salary-cap manager and a director of analytics.

“Unequivocally, he is a top 6-7 quarterback,” a personnel director said. “What they did offensively was perfect for him this past year where they had a strong run game and they could create space for people. Romo can find people and make all the throws. He had only one year where he threw a ton of picks. He has thrown picks at inopportune times, but it is not like Jay Cutler where he’s in the 14-15 range per season. Romo can make a play to win the game.”

A GM placed Romo in the second tier based on some of the mistakes Romo has made, but he also thought the Cowboys would be lost without him, as they were against Arizona last season.

“You never really want to put it on his shoulders game in and game out,” a personnel director said. “They have done that in the past and it did not work out as well. When you give him the tools and add some run game and protection, he is much better.”

One head coach on Flacco: “To me he is like Eli. He can go win the game.” Mitch Stringer/USA TODAY Sports

10. Joe Flacco | Baltimore Ravens

Average rating: 1.94 | Change in rating: +15.8%

2014 Rank: 12

Some question Flacco for the same reason they question Wilson. Both have played for teams with strong defenses and ground games, making their jobs easier. A GM who placed Flacco in the second tier said he could make a case for him as a 3, noting nearly identical career stat lines for Flacco and Andy Dalton in winning percentage, yards per attempt and passer rating. Their career Total QBR scores are also right around 53, just ahead of Ryan Tannehill.

A personnel director placed Flacco in the third tier, saying that Flacco has played his best games at the right times, and that he considered it more anomaly than a sign of Flacco possessing some sort of clutch gene.

“That Super Bowl run had to do with his defense and Torrey Smith having a heckuva year making catches down the field, and Anquan Boldin making tough catches,” this director said. “They had the right combination of people around him. That is important for him. I don’t see him as a guy who carries the team. I do not think he has the short accuracy. He has downfield arm strength, a big arm but not a great arm. I don’t think personality-wise he is the leader of your team.”

A different personnel director called Flacco a strong 2, adding that Flacco is not good enough to transcend a system.

“Gary Kubiak’s offense was absolutely perfect for him — strong run game, play-action throws, big windows, space in the pocket for him,” this director said. “This will be interesting with Marc Trestman taking over as coordinator. At the end of the day, Marc wants to throw the ball first and then run second. I know Marc is saying the right things, but that is interesting and we need to keep an eye on it.”

A defensive coordinator — who ranked as the second-easiest grader overall by average rating — placed Flacco in the top tier with nine others, pointing to arm strength and how well Flacco played last season. The vast majority put Flacco in the second tier.

“Joe is a 2,” a head coach said. “He can’t do it all, but he can do enough, and he doesn’t do it every week. To me he is like Eli. He can go win the game.”

One ex-GM on Ryan: “He does not have a chance. Guys are in his face right away.” AP Photo/Tom Lynn

11. Matt Ryan | Atlanta Falcons

Average rating: 2.03 | Change in rating: +9.1%

2014 Rank: T-8

Ryan commanded more second-tier votes than any other quarterback with 28 — one more than Flacco. Some voters thought Ryan had the tools to move into the top tier while conceding it should have happened by now.

“To me, Matt is a poor man’s Tom Brady, without the success,” a head coach said. “I felt Matt was competitive, but I think he was coddled a little bit. I do not think he needed to be. He is not that kind of guy. I think he is a real guy, a guy’s guy. I think if he had gone to a blue-collar place, it could have been different. I think he’s a 2 who could be a 1. Tom has a stronger arm, but I’m thinking about a guy who is not great getting out of the pocket but is instinctive enough, productive enough, cerebral as hell, gets it, good locker room presence, all that.”

More than one voter listed Ryan among the quarterbacks a team could build around for the long term.

“He does a lot for that team,” a defensive coordinator said. “They put a lot on his plate with the no-huddle. Their line the last couple of years has struggled. It is hard.”

Three voters placed Ryan in the third tier.

“I say a 3 because once pressure gets to him, he struggles and turns the ball over,” a personnel director said. “He needs to have balance to his game. He needs to have receivers, tight end and a run game to really maximize his play. Put him in the situation where he is the guy and he tends to struggle, even if he puts up big numbers.”

A defensive coordinator called Ryan closer to a 2 than a 3 while questioning some of the decisions Ryan makes in trying to do too much. “He will play lights out and then all of a sudden, where did that come from?”

A former GM found the Falcons mystifying. He wondered how they had suffered two losing seasons despite getting upper-echelon quarterback play from a statistical standpoint.

“It is hard for me because it goes against everything I think, but when I watch his film, I think he is good,” this ex-GM said. “He does not have a chance. Guys are in his face right away. Defensively, they can’t get a pass-rush going. They are giving up points, they are one-dimensional and people tee off.”

One personnel director on Manning: “Finally getting him weapons and guys with speed is really going to help him going forward. Robert Deutsch/USA Today Sports

T-12. Eli Manning | New York Giants

Average rating: 2.17 | Change in rating: +2.7%

2014 Rank: T-8

Manning received 10 votes in the third tier, matching the total for the 11 quarterbacks listed ahead of him in the rankings. He was still solidly in the second tier, with some league insiders saying he was trending up at age 34.

“He had the drop-off in 2013, but I thought he really started to come on last year,” a personnel director said. “Finally getting him weapons and guys with speed is really going to help him going forward. He is now throwing timing routes that he had not done before in his career. I like him. He has a poise about him. I do not think he is a 1. He has played like 1 in the playoffs at times. I’d be surprised if he did not have a good year this year.”

A defensive coordinator with NFC East experience said he thought Manning had not changed much over the years. He said perceptions about Manning as an up-and-down player had more to do with changes to the defense and running game. Still, an offensive coordinator called Manning “an interception machine.” Manning does have a league-high 185 interceptions since his 2004 rookie season. That includes a league-high 159 since Jay Cutler entered the league in 2006 (Cutler has 130, the third-highest total since then).

“I’ve seen him play some bad football,” a head coach said. “Based on this scale, to keep it consistent, I think you have to give him a 2. The guy can go win a championship, but if we are talking quarterback evaluation, a 1 can go win it for you every week. Eli has been a 1 the right time of year.”

A personnel director also drew the Cutler comparison, saying a team asking Manning to carry its offense with a pass-happy approach would get “more Cutler than consistent play” and that, like other players in the second and third tiers, Manning needs a combination of running game and defense to succeed. There is no shame in that, but it’s what separates the best from the good enough.

One offensive coach on Stafford: “Stafford could be like Aaron Rodgers if he had the burning passion and if he had Mike McCarthy from Day 1.” AP Photo/Ross D. Franklin

T-12. Matthew Stafford | Detroit Lions

Average rating: 2.17 | Change in rating: +8.9%

2014 Rank: 13

Stafford was the lowest-rated player to command a top-tier vote, but there were also eight third-tier grades from voters frustrated by the lingering gap between Stafford’s physical gifts and his on-field performance. The two voters to give Stafford a 1 ranked first and seventh among easiest graders overall.

“No doubt, he is a 2 and I love him, but something is missing,” a different offensive coach said. “Stafford could be like Aaron Rodgers if he had the burning passion and if he had Mike McCarthy from Day 1, because he is talented like that and quick with the ball. But you look at the look on Stafford’s face before the game and then look at Rodgers’ face or Big Ben’s face or Luck’s or especially Drew Brees’ face or Philip Rivers’ face. Holy s—, you look at Matthew Stafford’s eyes and it’s like gym class. It’s like, ‘I hope we win, I think we are pretty good’ as opposed to, ‘I am going to rip your throat out.’ It is always the want-to and passion and desire that separates guys. Stafford should be there with Big Ben. Rivers is OK physically, but does it all by heart and leadership.”

A GM touched on the same theme.

“Stafford is ahead of Andy Dalton and Alex Smith because he is more gifted, but there is an element where he is either about to become a 2 or he can fall into the Cutler category, not because of intangibles necessarily but because there is something missing. Even at Georgia, [in 2008] they had Stafford, they had Knowshon Moreno and A.J. Green. They were ranked No. 1 in the nation, and they finished with three losses. To me, that just defines things. You are in college football, you are a franchise QB, you have a really good college running back, an up-and-coming receiver and for whatever reason you could not lead your team to be ahead at the end of the big games.”

The perception is that Stafford must discipline himself to be great. A personnel director said he’d rather have Flacco or Ryan.

“Stafford has a little of what Cutler has got,” this director said. “He has mechanical things. He will throw it up for grabs. He is a 2. I don’t know if he has internally what Flacco and Ryan have in terms of the will to be special. I see those guys working on their mechanics, which is huge for guys like Peyton and Brady. Stafford’s mechanics have not changed.”

One head coach on Newton: “To me, his is a maturation issue. He is a 2 who should be a 1.” AP Photo/Ted S. Warren

14. Cam Newton | Carolina Panthers

Average rating: 2.49 | Change in rating: +3.5%

2014 Rank: 16

Newton moved solidly into the bottom of the second tier after getting a slight majority of third-tier votes one year ago. As one GM said: “I feel a little better on him, but you still have to manage him. There are more solid 2s.”

Newton gets lumped in with Colin Kaepernick and Wilson because all three are young players with dual-threat ability, but multiple voters drew comparisons to Roethlisberger as well.

“Cam has everything to be a 1 because he can carry a football team, but there is a hole there and he needs to fill it,” a head coach said. “He is a young Roethlisberger as far as looking at the guy. He is different. He is big, he can make any throw, he can create problems and pick up an offense and carry it. To me, his is a maturation issue. He is a 2 who should be a 1.”

Another head coach called Newton a 3 who becomes a 2 through his running. A personnel director who also made a comparison to Roethlisberger thought Newton measured up more from a size standpoint while falling short in terms of poise in the pocket.

“I like him, and I like the plan of what they are doing,” this director said. “They have gotten big targets for him because he has some accuracy issues. That really helps. Eventually in this league, you have to win from the pocket. That to me is what keeps him from ever being a 1.”

Why couldn’t Newton develop in that area?

“I do not think he can process the passing game fast enough to throw it to win every week,” an offensive coach said. “If the defense is not good enough, a team needs more passing to win.”

The Panthers have ranked between 13th and 15th in Total QBR every season since Newton arrived in 2011. Their record has fluctuated with their defensive performance, peaking at 12-4 in 2013 when Carolina ranked third in defensive expected points added (EPA). The defense ranked between 19th and 31st in every other season with Newton, and Carolina finished below .500 each time.

“Cam is inaccurate, and he makes a lot of mistakes. But for some reason he moves the ball, and figures out ways to get them in the end zone,” an offensive coordinator said. “I really think his size and the way he can run with the ball really causes a lot of problems for the defense.”

Tier 3 (10 QBs total)

One personnel director said of Palmer: “I give Arizona credit. They saw something I did not. His arm has more life to it than I thought.” Mark J. Rebilas/USA TODAY Sports

15. Carson Palmer | Arizona Cardinals

Average rating: 2.69 | Change in rating: +13.8%

2014 Rank: T-21

Palmer has an 11-2 record in his last 13 starts and ranks ninth among qualifying quarterbacks in Total QBR (67.8) over that span, which dates to Week 11 of the 2013 season. So it’s not a huge surprise that some of the voters said they would’ve been inclined to make him a 2, if not for the fact that Palmer is coming off a torn ACL at age 35.

“He plays well as a stationary dropback QB,” a personnel director said. “He can find his receivers. If he is comfortable in the system, he can make all the throws, finding his first, second and maybe his third read. He is a system guy now.”

A head coach said he thought Palmer was more of a backup at this point based on an inability to move. That was an outlier view, however. Thirteen voters placed Palmer into the second tier. Those placing Palmer lower pointed to injury problems.

“At one point, I’d have told you he is a 3,” another director said. “I am saying he is a high 2. Coming out of Oakland I thought his arm was dying. I give Arizona credit. They saw something I did not. His arm has more life to it than I thought.”

One head coach said of Smith: “He has everything else, but his arm talent, his instincts to throw the ball with anticipation [are lacking].”

16. Alex Smith | Kansas City Chiefs

Average rating: 2.77 | Change in rating: +6.4%

2014 Rank: 18

There are different types of 3s. Smith is the type voters view more favorably because he generally will not lose the game, and he’s a good teammate. However, voters do not think he has played a leading role in his 25-13-1 record as a starter over the past three seasons. Smith is seventh in winning percentage and 19th in Total QBR over that span, rankings that line up very closely with those for Andy Dalton, another quarterback in the third tier.

“At one time, I would have had Alex as a 2, but he has to be a 3 because of his arm talent,” a head coach said. “He has everything else, but his arm talent, his instincts to throw the ball with anticipation [are lacking]. I think it is a product of playing in so many systems. When he was young, I thought he had a chance.”

A GM who placed Smith in the third tier said he thought the Chiefs couldn’t win a championship with him behind center.

“To me, a 2 has to have a good cast around him,” the GM said. “A 3 is not going to win a championship even though he has a good cast around him. But he is good enough to be a starter.”

A personnel director disagreed, saying he thought a team such as the Lovie Smith-era Chicago Bears — loaded on defense, dynamic on special teams — would have won a Super Bowl if Smith had been its quarterback. The 2006 Bears reached the Super Bowl with a 13-3 record even though Rex Grossman posted a 39.3 QBR, by far the lowest for a Super Bowl team in the QBR era (since 2006). Smith’s QBR over the past three seasons stands at 53.1, higher than the regular-season figures for three recent Super Bowl champs (2007 Giants, 2008 Steelers 2012 Ravens). But those teams all had quarterbacks currently in the second tier — guys some voters feel have the physical attributes of a first-tier QB.

“I don’t know how you can give a QB who hasn’t thrown a TD pass to a wide receiver in more than a year anything above a 4,” a salary-cap manager said.

One GM said of Tannehill: “His biggest issue is his lack of natural arm strength.” Joe Robbins/Getty Images

17. Ryan Tannehill | Miami Dolphins

Average rating: 2.86 | Change in rating: +13.9%

2014 Rank: 23

Voters moved Tannehill more solidly into the third tier, with most suggesting a 2 would be his ceiling. Tannehill has made statistical gains every year even though the Dolphins have struggled to build a capable offensive line, running game and receiving corps around him. The defense also fell apart late last season. Even with those mitigating factors, some voters wanted to see more from Tannehill.

“He does not have any signature wins yet,” an offensive coordinator said. “Who has Tannehill beat toward the end of the year?”

A personnel director who studied Tannehill closely coming out of college said he thought accuracy and pocket poise would always be issues. He feels the same way now.

“Look, he is not Mark Sanchez, but there are some similarities in Mike Tannenbaum giving Tannehill [a six-year, $96-million] deal and Tannenbaum giving Sanchez [a three-year, $40.5-million] deal,” this director said. “They want to be ahead of the curve and I get it, but you need to be right. Tannehill is a great kid, he works, he does everything you want, but there was a little bit of panic in college, and there still is. I have not seen a game yet where it slowed down for him. Say what you want, he has a losing record.”

A different director called Tannehill a 2 with the potential to reach the top tier based on athleticism and potential for positional growth after playing receiver in college. But he had concerns about Tannehill’s deep-ball accuracy, adding that Tannehill could use a better running back. He also thought losing Charles Clay would hurt more than some anticipated.

“His biggest issue is his lack of natural arm strength, and because of that, you watch him on tape last year, Mike Wallace is wide open constantly and he just can’t get the ball down the field,” a GM said. “But being a smooth operator, he is a guy who is trending toward a 2. I do see the physical tools to be a 1.”

One head coach on Kaepernick: “I never felt like he could beat you from the pocket.” AP Photo/Jeff Chiu

T-18. Colin Kaepernick | San Francisco 49ers

Average rating: 2.94 | Change in rating: -17.7%

2014 Rank: 14

Voters raised questions about Kaepernick’s accuracy and ability as a pocket passer. They see the football equivalent of a pitcher with a little variety beyond a fastball. In general, the sentiment was that Kaepernick regressed last season as his fundamentals suffered and the 49ers failed to maximize his abilities.

“[Jim] Harbaugh allowed him to get exposed a little by trying to have him win, to be the centerpiece of the offense instead of what he does naturally — running,” a personnel director said. “He showed his arm strength, but also his inaccuracy as a thrower. That is not going to get better. He cannot be a 2 by being a dropback QB.”

Kaepernick averaged 36.1 dropbacks per game in 2014, up from 31.4 in each of his previous two seasons as a starter. His completion rate actually improved from 2013, but his touchdown rate fell, his interception rate climbed and he took 52 sacks, more than any quarterback except for Blake Bortles (55). Last year, 14 of 26 voters placed Kaepernick in the second tier. Only five of 35 did this time.

“He has unique ability, but having played him more than once, I never felt like he could beat you from the pocket and I still feel that way,” a head coach said.

Kaepernick has seen his QBR score as a starter fall in each of the last three seasons, from 71.8 to 68.6 to 55.9 last season.

“I’m probably a little low on Kaepernick, but he is not disciplined,” said a head coach who placed Kaepernick in the fourth tier. “I have not seen him beat anybody from the pocket.”

One personnel director on Dalton: “He is a win-with quarterback, not a win-because-of quarterback.” Gregory Shamus/Getty Image

T-18. Andy Dalton | Cincinnati Bengals

Average rating: 2.94 | Change in rating: +1.9%

2014 Rank: T-19

Thirty-one of 35 voters placed Dalton among the 3s, giving Dalton the most such votes. Most thought he could become a 2. None said he could become a 1.

“I like Dalton, but I’ve seen him enough times to know his receivers have to make plays for him,” a personnel director said. “He has had good receivers making big catches. I saw him being so sporadic needing a win to go into the playoffs or being a wild-card team, and playing terrible. He was the reason they lost.”

Dalton ranks 20th out of 29 qualifying players in Total QBR since entering the league in 2011. The Bengals have the NFL’s sixth-best record (42-23-1) during that span. Ranking third in defensive EPA has helped them succeed with statistically average quarterback play.

“Dalton can play as a high 3 or a low 3,” a different personnel director said. “He has to win with his head and his short accuracy and the pieces around him. They have given him good pieces around him. The injuries at wideout really hurt him [in the playoffs]. He cannot carry the load, but he is solid. He is a win-with quarterback, not a win-because-of quarterback.”

One head coach on Carr: “Man, he can spin the ball.” Thearon W. Henderson/Getty Images

T-20. Derek Carr | Oakland Raiders

Average rating: 3.11 | Change in rating: N/A

2014 Rank: N/A

This relatively high ranking for an unestablished player reflects a fair amount of projection from voters excited about the potential they’ve seen to this point. Carr was statistically poor as a rookie, averaging a league-low 5.5 yards per pass attempt while ranking 28th out of 33 qualifiers in Total QBR.

“I think he is strong in the pocket, and just watching him, it feels like he is in command, knows where he is going with the ball and has plenty of arm strength,” a personnel director said. “The lack of talent around him is pretty apparent. You get the offensive line and run game going, surround him with some better players and he makes a big jump.”

An offensive coach said he thought Carr had the physical talent to be a 2, and that Carr could be a 1 if he has the right mental makeup.

“I saw a ton of college tape on him, he threw it 60 times a game and was almost Elway-like the way he banged 50-yard throws,” a head coach said. “Man, he can spin the ball.”

A different personnel director from a team that faced Carr last season said the QB needed to show more against the blitz. He was otherwise impressed with the way Carr controlled the game and saw the field. An opposing defensive coordinator said he loved Carr’s demeanor and thought he was tough to rattle.

“He can spin it, he has good accuracy, he makes quick decisions,” a different defensive coordinator said. “The people that like him but do not rank him higher, well, he has an awful supporting cast. No run game, awful receivers. They drafted some guys. They have a shot.”

One head coach on Cutler: “I’ve never seen a guy get paid that much money and see that many people fired around him.” AP Photo/Jim Mone

T-20. Jay Cutler | Chicago Bears

Average rating: 3.11 | Change in rating: -19.1%

2014 Rank: 17

With the exception of Robert Griffin III, no player in the survey produced stronger negative reactions than Cutler did.

“I’ve never seen a guy get paid that much money and see that many people fired around him,” a head coach said. “It’s incredible. It is never his fault. You could give him a 2, but I’d want him as a backup.”

That coach was one of seven voters to place Cutler in the fourth tier. One voter placed him in the fifth tier, explaining that Cutler’s presence on a team is damaging.

“We might already know everything on him, but there seems to be something about him where you go, ‘Let’s give him another shot,'” a GM said.

An evaluator who spent time with the Bears during Cutler’s tenure with the team said he thought the organization lost sight of the fact that Cutler needs a strong defense and running game to succeed. Cutler might have top-tier physical talent, this evaluator said, but he will not harness it properly if forced to carry the offense the way top-tier quarterbacks do.

“I do not think he is the monster everyone has made him out to be,” the evaluator said. “He does have issues, but can you win with him? Yes. That is why he is a 3, not a 4. If you protect him and get him to get the ball out and have a really good run game, he can be [good enough]. But he will turn it over, and you have to overcome that.”

One personnel director on Foles: “I don’t know that he sees everything.” AP Images/Michael Thomas

22. Nick Foles | St. Louis Rams

Average rating: 3.20 | Change in rating: -25%

2014 Rank: 15

Voters gave Foles the benefit of the doubt heading into 2014, but not after a down season. His average ranking fell 25 percent from 2.56 to 3.2, the fourth-largest percentage dip among the 27 returning starters. Some evaluators are interested to see how he fares away from Chip Kelly’s offense.

“Truthfully, I think Foles is a 4,” a personnel director said. “I think in that Chip Kelly system, once he figured it out, he operated it and did a great job early on. But I do not think he is talented [enough] where he will be that way year in and year out, or week in and week out. He is a little stiff in the pocket. I don’t think he has great arm strength. He has pretty good accuracy. I don’t know that he sees everything.”

One coach lauded Foles for his toughness, good passing ability and functional mobility, but when he studied Foles against Jacksonville last season, he saw a quarterback who had trouble seeing wide-open receivers down the field.

“You wish he was your backup because he could go win some games for you, but I wouldn’t want him to be my starter,” a head coach said.

A personnel director called Foles a “solid 3” who should upgrade the situation in St. Louis.

One head coach on Bradford: “If he can stay healthy, he can be so accurate.” AP Photo/Matt Slocum

T-23. Sam Bradford | Philadelphia Eagles

Average rating: 3.23 | Change in rating: -3.6%

2014 Rank: T-21

Bradford fell a bit in the rankings based on his inability to stay healthy in recent seasons, making just seven of 32 potential starts since 2013.

“I thought he was a 2 coming out because I did not see the big arm,” a head coach said. “No one could tell from his pro day because [agent] Tom Condon wouldn’t let him throw any deep comebacks. He has the intangibles, but you have to give him a 3 or 4 just because he is always hurt. Frankly, you probably want him to be your backup, just for his availability.”

A defensive coordinator said he thought Bradford could flourish playing in Philadelphia because the Eagles’ play-action game could buy him time he did not have in St. Louis. This coordinator added that Bradford would be an upgrade from Foles and Sanchez in terms of accuracy, but with the injury concerns, he placed Bradford only in the third tier.

“There is no quarterback I loved more than him coming out,” a different head coach said. “I am pulling for him. If he can stay healthy, he can be so accurate. Keep him as a 3 but only because of the injury factor.”

One personnel director on Bridgewater: “He is one of those guys who is a jack of all trades, master of none.” AP Photo/Ann Heisenfelt

T-23. Teddy Bridgewater | Minnesota Vikings

Average rating: 3.23 | Change in rating: N/A

2014 Rank: N/A

Bridgewater made it into the third tier after a 13-game rookie season featuring 14 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions. That’s not bad, but it’s tough not to notice how much Bridgewater lagged behind Carr, his fellow 2014 rookie, in this survey.

“I think he is a 3 right now,” a personnel director said. “He has a lot of confidence, some mobility, some little traits that you like. I just do not think he has a lot of a lot of those traits. He will flash 2, never be a 1 and settle in at being a 3, needing good people around him. He is one of those guys who is a jack of all trades, master of none.”

A GM challenged anyone to find an area where Bridgewater projected as above average. Multiple voters thought Bridgewater would be a solid 3 playing with Adrian Peterson and under offensive coordinator Norv Turner. A personnel director who was one of five voters placing Bridgewater in the second tier cited the poise Bridgewater showed leading an offense without Peterson.

“I question his accuracy,” a different director said. “Ten-plus yards down the field and in tight windows with the game on the line, I’m not sure. If you scheme it up and have a great run game with a top offensive coordinator, he is good. I don’t know if he can ever put it on his back. You did not see it in college.

“I watched the Detroit game and he threw two picks that really cost them the game. He had to make a throw into a tight window. He does have poise. He makes pretty good decisions with the ball. He has some things you like and with the right offense and coordinator, you can win with him. He is very similar to the kid in Cincinnati, and that is OK. You get to 10 wins in this freaking league, you are making a lot of money.”

Tier 4 (8 QBs total)

One D-coordinator on Mariota: “He is athletic, smart, he studies, he’s a leader, a good kid.” AP Photo/Mark Zaleski

25. Marcus Mariota | Tennessee Titans

Average rating: 3.54 | Change in rating: N/A

2014 Rank: N/A

Voters typically place rookies into the fourth tier by default unless they’re particularly excited about one. Mariota drew five votes in the second tier and eight in the third.

“What don’t you like about him?” a defensive coordinator asked. “He is athletic, smart, he studies, he’s a leader, a good kid.”

An offensive coordinator who studied Mariota said he’s confident the former Oregon star can process quickly, which is critical for development.

“He will be a little bit of a manager, not make too many mistakes,” a personnel director predicted. “I think he is a 3 who can project to a 2, but he is going to a situation where they do not have a lot of talent around him.”

Another director said he would have taken Mariota over Jameis Winston in part because he thinks Mariota will not create distractions.

“Does Mariota have some little flaws in his game? Absolutely,” this director said. “Accuracy could be a little bit of an issue. But he will work his butt off, he is smart, really good athlete, has speed, and he will work at everything. There are lots of similarities with Alex Smith. There is too much going on with Winston. We are not living in the ’70s anymore where the QB can get away with that s—.”

One offensive coordinator on Winston: “He threw so many bad interceptions in college where everybody was wide open.” Harry How/Getty Images

26. Jameis Winston | Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Average rating: 3.77 | Change in rating: N/A

2014 Rank: N/A

Winston matched Mariota with 20 votes in the fourth tier, but he got only one in the second tier. Four voters put him in the fifth, and one of those, an offensive coordinator, was betting Winston would be a bust.

“He threw so many bad interceptions in college where everybody is wide open,” this coordinator said. “That is not scientific. He was just so inconsistent in college, turned it over all the time and was on the best team in college. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. That is my gut feeling. Not that I think Mariota is the cat’s meow, but he will be accurate, precise, efficient. The other guy is gunslinger plus bad decision-making, and that equals bad.”

A head coach said he thought Winston would get the turnover problems under control.

“I bet you he throws 15-20 picks this year,” a personnel director said. “He is very talented, very smart and he sees it. Has to work at it and protect the football. They will help him. Whether they can protect him or not, I do not know. They will do everything they can by running the ball and scheming.”

One opposing head coach on Bortles: “I did not like how he threw the ball — he looked lost.” AP Photo/Phelan M. Ebenhack

27. Blake Bortles | Jacksonville Jaguars

Average rating: 3.83 | Change in rating: N/A

2014 Rank: N/A

Bortles played sooner than anticipated and got very little support, making it tougher to evaluate him fairly. Voters were not particularly critical of Bortles, but that doesn’t mean they were optimistic, either.

“I’m not feeling it,” one offensive coach said, offering faint praise by calling Bortles an “ascending 4.”

Bortles ranked 28th in completion rate last season (58.9 percent), despite completing 65 screens in 73 attempts. Only Cutler attempted more screen passes last season.

“I did not like how he threw the ball. He looked lost,” an opposing head coach said.

A personnel director was among several voters who said they questioned Bortles’ accuracy coming out of college.

“For the beating he was taking, he was pretty poised about it,” this director said. “It will be interesting to see how the new coordinator helps him. I do not think they helped him at all last year. One of the hardest things when you take a quarterback is getting your staff, especially your playcaller and head coach, to determine how they’re going to make him successful and then sticking to it.”

One offensive coach on RG III: “He is done.” AP Photo/Richard Lipski

28. Robert Griffin III | Washington Redskins

Average rating: 3.91 | Change in rating: -30.5%

2014 Rank: T-19

One head coach wound up being the easiest grader overall — and it wasn’t even close — placing 30 of the 32 quarterbacks in the top two tiers. The lone exceptions? Matt Cassel (Tier 3) and Griffin (Tier 4), which pretty much sums up where people around the league see Griffin at this stage of his career.

“Five, and there’s no coming back,” one offensive coach said. “He is done. The reason is, the injury slowed his legs, and his ego will not allow him to hit rock bottom and actually grind his way back up the right way.”

Multiple voters hit on that theme.

“To get better in this league, you have to have a degree of humility,” a personnel director said. “Griffin sees himself like Peyton, in that light. When he looks in the mirror, he is seeing things that everybody else is not seeing. That is why I was surprised when they gave him the fifth-year [option] and said it was an easy decision.”

Griffin did receive a lone second-tier vote from a GM who took a longer-range view.

“I know how hard it is for a quarterback to go into a system for the first time,” he said. “I go back to Brett Favre. He was a 1, but he goes to the Jets and he was probably a 2 or a 3. Then he went to a familiar system in Minnesota and was a 1 again. With Griffin, I’m taking into account the new offense, the new personality at head coach, coming off an injury. He showed his rookie year that he could be a 1. He is a young guy. I’m going to give him the benefit because of that.”

One D-coordinator on McCown: “He was better than what he showed at times [last year].” Ken Blaze/USA TODAY Sports

29. Josh McCown | Cleveland Browns

Average rating: 3.94 | Change in rating: -12%

2014 Rank: 24

There aren’t enough starting-caliber quarterbacks to go around, and it’s getting tougher to find prospects with training in pro-style offenses. Those factors explain how McCown projects as a starter for the second consecutive offseason.

“We faced him last year, and I kind of like parts of his game,” a defensive coordinator said. “He was better than what he showed at times. He has some mobility, he has a decent release, some of that stuff. I have respect for his game.”

Another coordinator called McCown a very good athlete for his age (36).

“He needs a strong, strong cast around him to win,” a personnel director said. “In Chicago, he was throwing to three giants and they were pretty good on the line, with a good run game.”

One GM on Brian Hoyer: “They have to play a certain way and manage it with him.” AP Photo/David J. Phillip

30. Brian Hoyer | Houston Texans

Average rating: 4.03 | Change in rating: +5.9%

2014 Rank: 29

Hoyer hasn’t won the job yet, but voters considered him the favorite, making him the choice for the purposes of this project. One personnel director called Hoyer an overachiever, which is somewhat high praise for a guy who will be on his sixth team in as many seasons.

“He did a good job with what they asked him to do in Cleveland,” a GM said. “He kept them in games, did not make big mistakes. They have to play a certain way and manage it with him.”

An offensive coach said he’d take Hoyer over McCown based on how they functioned under pressure. One voter noted that when Green Bay lost Rodgers to injury in 2013, the Packers could have signed Hoyer, but they chose Seneca Wallace instead.

One offensive coach on Matt Cassel: “He just looked like he regressed.” Timothy T. Ludwig/USA TODAY Sports

31. Matt Cassel | Buffalo Bills

Average rating: 4.20 | Change in rating: +1.6%

2014 Rank: 28

Multiple voters could not believe an NFL team would sign Cassel to be a potential starter in 2015.

“Matt Moore is way better, and they made no play for him,” one offensive coach said. “Cassel will not even be the starter up there. He is not accurate, has a long motion, a big overstride, a flat ball, and he just looked like he has regressed.”

EJ Manuel, Tyrod Taylor and Matt Simms are also on the roster.

Speaking of the competition: “Manuel has no instincts after the ball is snapped,” a personnel director said. “He’s a great kid, has some talent. But he could not decipher or make quick decisions in college, and I do not see him doing it now.”

The Bills do have the makings of a top-five defense, and they made moves to upgrade their ground game. Those components can help a team win without a top quarterback, which the Bills proved last season (9-7 while ranking 30th in QBR at 36.5). They joined the 2009 Jets as the only other team out of 66 in the QBR era (since 2006) to exceed 8-8 with a QBR score at 37.0 or lower.

One director on Geno Smith: “He does not strike me with his actions or thought process as a starting quarterback.” Al Bello/Getty Images

32. Geno Smith | New York Jets

Average rating: 4.29 | Change in rating: +4.3%

2014 Rank: 32

Ryan Fitzpatrick could wind up starting for the Jets, but Smith is currently penciled in, and he’s the more interesting study as a young player with some talent. There is not much excitement for Smith overall, but two of the higher-profile offensive coaches in the league accounted for two of the three highest votes for Smith.

“When I watch Geno play, where are the base plays?” one of these coaches said. “To make the quarterback successful, you do not run more exotic schemes. Geno has run an offense that is trying to win with scheme. I see a guy who has talent, but he has not been coached like a quarterback. I think you have to give him a 3 based on that.”

The other offensive coach said the 2014 Jets “ran every play in the history of football” at the expense of those base plays a young quarterback needs to rely upon in a pinch. Both coaches used the word “incomplete” when describing Smith.

Others were harsher.

“Geno is a 5, and that is it,” another coach said. “He cannot process fast enough. He is not a natural guy, sliding in the pocket and knowing when to run it. He has some legs to run, but no, he is trying to prove he is a pocket passer. Let’s do something at the position before we start limiting ourselves for image.”

A personnel director said he thought Smith was erratic in his public comments and in his play.

“You don’t have to be like everyone else,” this director said, “but he does not strike me with his actions or thought process as a starting quarterback.”

Jim Thomas Talks Rams Revenue, Says ‘Debatable’ Kroenke Has Votes to Relocate

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/STLSports/STLRams/tabid/137/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/18466/Jim-Thomas-Talks-Rams-Revenue-Says-Debatable-Kroenke-Has-Votes-to-Relocate.aspx

St. Louis Post-Dispatch beat writer Jim Thomas called into The Hollywood Casino Press Box on Tuesday to discuss a multitude of topics surrounding the Rams as they prepare to open their 2015 Training Camp.

We typed up a few notable quotes from the segment. Listen to the whole thing below.

The NFL paid out at least $227 million to the Rams last year?

“It’s the revenue sharing that the league has had before any of the four sports. Bill Bidwell used to brag that he didn’t have to sell one single ticket and would still make a profit. So don’t kid yourself…When you’re talking about Stan Kroenke and the profitability of the Rams, he has made tons of money running the Rams since 2010 as the controlling owner and also before that as the minority owner. He’s made a lot of money on his investment of the Rams.”

Will you be in Chicago Aug. 11 for the NFL owners meetings?

“That’s still to be determined. I went to the May meetings in San Francisco. I would like to slip away from training camp to be up there for that one.”

On reported momentum being gained on the Carson stadium project:

“I’ve talked to a couple people who kind of have the impression…that if it isn’t dead even or close to a dead heat with Inglewood, it’s definitely closing the gap. Carson got a later start than the Inglewood project. Carmen Policy…it hasn’t been that long since he’s been out of the league…and he’s a highly respected person in the league. And he can be very persuasive.”

On Stan Kroenke getting enough owners votes to relocate:

“I think it’s very debatable that Stan has the votes right now. Maybe he’ll be able to buy off the owners…maybe he could use money in some other fashion. What I continue to hear is that he doesn’t have the votes. I would be very surprised if (Shahid) Khan down in Jacksonville voted yes.”

On Dave Peacock hosting the NFL Hall of Fame Golf Tournament in September:

“In some ways, he’s kind of one of the guys. He knows Roger Goodell personally. And he’s known Eric Grubman for a long, long time. I don’t think that can hurt, that familiarity with the league.”

Do you have the feeling there’s a different feel entering this season?

“I still have to cover the team…but I will stay this…I took a little hiatus in July and I came back to work yesterday and it’s a happy time if you love football. And as I walk into Rams Park yesterday, I’m thinking, ‘Could this be the last time the fans watch the Rams at training camp.’ It’s hard for me to totally block it out of my mind. I’m sure that’s the case with most – if not all – Rams fans.”

Gurley passes physical, begins camp on active roster

By Jim Thomas

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/gurley-passes-physical-begins-camp-on-active-roster/article_34705398-00a4-5789-9091-e1f251d65be1.html

During the last week of OTA practice sessions in June, Rams coach Jeff Fisher talked about the roster options the team had for rookie running back Todd Gurley once training camp opened. Among them, as Gurley continued his rehab from knee surgery he underwent as a Georgia Bulldog, was designation to the physically unable to perform list.

“If he’s not ‘PUP-ed,’ ” Fisher said at the time, “then I think you could probably assume that he’s going to play sooner than you think.”

Well, on Tuesday, all Rams rookies had to undergo their pre-training camp conditioning tests, a series of running drills to gauge their fitness levels for the rigors of camp. On a hot and steamy day in St. Louis, Gurley wasn’t fazed by the weather.

He passed his conditioning test with an exclamation point, according to those who saw him work out. So contrary to some national speculation last week, Gurley will not begin training camp on the PUP list. Instead, he will start training camp Friday on the active roster and be available to practice.

Obviously, this is an encouraging development for a Rams team hoping to beef up its running game and add a much-needed difference maker to the offense. There are no guarantees, of course, but as Fisher said in mid-June, minus the PUP-list designation he will probably play sooner than expected.

So the chances of Gurley being ready on opening day, Sept. 13 in the Edward Jones Dome against defending NFC champion Seattle, just went up. That doesn’t mean he’ll get 20 or 25 touches against the Seahawks, but he could be a factor.

Gurley’s work on the conditioning test certainly rates as a positive development, and a definite sign of progress in terms of the knee. But he still has some road to travel in terms of preparation for the regular season. The Rams’ medical staff, in consultation with the coaches, still must evaluate Gurley’s medical progress versus setting a specified return date.

Along those lines the team still has to determine a plan for integrating functional football work — that is, practice — with the continued rehab work that must be done on the surgically repaired left knee.

Gurley suffered the injury in the Bulldogs’ Nov. 15 game against Auburn last season, or roughly 8½ months ago. Even with the injury and surgery, the Rams couldn’t pass on Gurley at No. 10 overall in the draft.

In calling him the team’s running back of the future, Fisher cited Gurley’s athletic ability, strength, acceleration and instincts as a runner. “He’s special,” Fisher said after making the pick.

Gurley’s combination of speed and power could make him an improved version of Steven Jackson in St. Louis. He has also drawn comparisons to Marshawn Lynch and Fred Taylor, two highly successful backs in the NFL.

But even with Gurley on the active roster, and potentially being available for opening day, the last thing the Rams want to do is rush him back. With that in mind Tre Mason, impressive as a rookie a year ago, is still expected to get the lion’s share of the carries early in the season. Benny Cunningham has proven to be a capable rotation player and third-down back.

But even a Gurley who sees limited duty in the early going should make the Rams a better offense and potentially help the team avoid the slow starts to the season that have plagued Fisher’s first three Rams teams.

from off the net

==

guinnessram

Adam Shefter on NFL Insiders today said: “New information has surfaced that on or shortly before March 6th, the day that Brady met with Ted Wells, Brady directed that the cell phone he had been using for the prior 4 months be destroyed. He did so even though he was aware that the NFL requested access to text messages and other electronic information that had been stored on the phone. I know the NFL was very upset about the phone not being turned over, so the obviously factored that information into the decision to uphold the suspension.”

Shefter thinks that it will all end up in front of Judge Dody in Minny. He said the Brady camp can prove that Tom changes phones every 4 months, and Bill Polian jumped on that. He pointed out that evidence cannot be litigated on appeal, only “procedure and correct application of the CBA.” Polian added the appeal can’t exonerate Brady, so he doubts that the suspension will be overturned.

-===========================

Goodell cites destroying phone in upholding Tom Brady’s suspension

Darin Gantt

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/roger-goodell-upholds-tom-bradys-four-game-suspension-2/

In a not-at-all unexpected end (for now) to the #DeflateGate saga, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has upheld his four-game suspension of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady

In the league’s release on the matter, they stated that “important new information disclosed by Brady and his representatives” during his appeal hearing came into play.

“On or shortly before March 6, the day that Tom Brady met with independent investigator Ted Wells and his colleagues, Brady directed that the cell phone he had used for the prior four months be destroyed,” the league statement read. “He did so even though he was aware that the investigators had requested access to text messages and other electronic information that had been stored on that phone. ‎During the four months that the cell phone was in use, Brady had exchanged nearly 10,000 text messages, none of which can now be retrieved from that device. The destruction of the cell phone was not disclosed until June 18, almost four months after the investigators had first sought electronic information from Brady.”

As a result, Goodell did not shorten his initial punishment, which will now certainly be headed to court.

“The commissioner found that Brady’s deliberate destruction of potentially relevant evidence went beyond a mere failure to cooperate in the investigation and supported a finding that he had sought to hide evidence of his own participation in the underlying scheme to alter the footballs.”

Stephen A Smith @stephenasmith

I’m hearing that Brady’s 4-gm suspension will likely be upheld by the NFL

Okay this last one is really bad.

Here are some especially bad klunkers.

given how injury-prone Bradford has been over the years. St. Louis fans always had to hold their breath every time Bradford was tackled or simply fell down on his own, so it must be a relief for them that they no longer have to do that.

Gee I missed that one. Here I am a Rams fan and for years didn’t realize I was supposed to hold my breath on every pass.

This could be an issue because of Foles’ accuracy – he completed 59.8 percent of his passes this past season

Foles lost his long ball accuracy last year but in the “behind the LOS to 10 yards” range, he completed 71.9% of his passes. But then I know this because I bothered to look it up.

In the 11-20 yard range, he completed 53.6%, which is better than Rodgers, Luck, Flacco, Wilson, and Manning and just behind Rivers (54.4%) and Brady (56.9%). Ideally you want to improve that to 60%, which is Brees territory.

Scott Wells and Davin Joseph, are also off the team, so two of Tim Barnes, Barrett Jones or Andrew Donnal will start in their place.

Yeah go Andrew Donnal. This at least proves that the writer read some minimal press on the team, cause that’s how he would know that Donnal was really being touted as an intriguing guard prospect by the coaches after OTAs. And that’s in spite of Donnal playing tackle during OTAs.

The guy at guard in OTAs was a something something guy, Brown I think, whatever.

. Britt, only 26, is capable of being extremely productive – he had a 9-103 line in Week 16 – but injuries and lack of motivation are concerns with him.

The one thing you really notice about Britt is his lackadaisical attitude and complete lack of motivation.

James Laurinaitis is a big name, but he hasn’t played well in years, and he actually has regressed each season.

Sigh. Nevermind.

.