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znModeratorGurley grounded — Rams’ running game hits the wall
Jim Thomas
Few rookies regardless of position have opened their NFL careers with the impact Todd Gurley did for the Rams this season. The numbers and the milestones are familiar to most.
First rookie in league history with 125 yards-plus rushing in his first four starts.
More yards rushing in his first four starts than any NFL player in the Super Bowl era.
Gurley was the NFL’s offensive rookie of the month for October. He got that Jolly Ranchers endorsement. He was heralded by analysts and media members across the land.
In short, he was the next big thing. Just like that.
But after that amazing start, the yardage and highlight-reel runs have dried up.
In his first four starts, Gurley averaged 142 yards per game and 6.4 yards per carry. That period encompassed starts against Arizona, Green Bay, Cleveland and San Francisco, with the Rams going 3-1 in those contests.
But in Gurley’s next four starts, his production has been more than cut in half. Namely, 55 yards per game and 3.1 yards per carry. The Rams are 0-4 in those games against Minnesota, Chicago, Baltimore and Cincinnati.
Thanks in part to the work of wide receiver Tavon Austin on end-arounds and jet sweeps, the Rams still rank seventh in the league in rushing offense entering Sunday’s rematch with Arizona.
But for the most part, the bottom has fallen out of the running game as teams load the box with extra defenders to swarm Gurley, and the Rams’ injury-plagued offensive line goes through one combination after another.
“He’s not frustrated,” coach Jeff Fisher said. “He’s a team guy. He’s having fun. Wants to help us win. He knows he’s a big part of this team. His production on the field not only helps offense, it helps defense, it helps everything.”
A decline in explosive plays has coincided with the decline in production for Gurley. The Rams define an explosive run as a carry gaining 10 yards or more. In his first four starts Gurley had 15 such explosive runs, including gains of 30, 48, 54, 55 and 71 yards.
In his next four starts, Gurley has had only two such runs — on gains of 13 and 16 yards Nov. 8 at Minnesota. He hasn’t had a run longer than nine yards in the three games since then.
“It’s execution,” Gurley said. “Doing what we’ve got to do. Taking the right steps, taking the right track, whether it’s getting a double block or a triple, (or) single. Just basically execution.”
Obviously, the line injuries haven’t helped. Beginning with the first game in the current losing streak — Minnesota — Gurley has failed to reach 100 yards. Beginning with that contest, the Rams have featured a different starting combination up front for four consecutive weeks.
Starting right guard Jamon Brown was lost for the season Nov. 15 against Chicago. Starting right tackle Rob Havenstein has missed three of the past four games with what has been described as ankle and calf injuries. Even one of the replacements on the line, Andrew Donnal, is out with a knee injury.
“It’s just staying on our blocks and giving Todd a chance,” said Havenstein, who could return to the lineup this week. “Because he’s gonna do special things. He’s just that type of player, that type of back.”
The Rams tweaked the running game to a degree against Cincinnati. Among the new wrinkles was the Wildcat formation in which Gurley lined up in the shotgun formation behind center with quarterback Nick Foles split out like a wide receiver.
In two plays out of the Wildcat, the Rams got 60 yards on a Gurley handoff to Austin, and later got a modest three yards on a Gurley keeper. Gimmick plays can help to a degree, but only for a few plays.
They can’t solve deeper problems, such as not opening enough holes with a greener-than-green offensive line. Or not showing enough prowess in the passing game to keep defenses honest and get them to back off the line of scrimmage.
“We’ve looked hard at it,” Fisher said. “We just gotta continue to give him opportunities. So we’ll get creative in the run game, and gonna get hats on hats and let him go.”
“It takes all 11,” offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti said Thursday. “One, we’ve got to get him at-bats, get him carries. Through four quarters of it, we impose our will. Hopefully like last time, you continue to get better throughout the game.”
That was a reference to Gurley’s first NFL start, Oct. 4 at Arizona. As a team, the Rams had only nine yards rushing on nine carries in the first half — a half in which Arizona had a 2-to-1 edge in time of possession.
Things started out slowly in the third quarter on the ground, but the Rams stayed with the running game and suddenly things started clicking. Gurley had runs of 23 and 12 yards on a third quarter touchdown drive; then had runs of 12 and 52 yards on a fourth-quarter TD march. When all was said and done, he finished with 19 carries for 146 yards in a 24-22 upset victory.
Gurley had only nine carries (for 19 yards) in last week’s 31-7 blowout loss in Cincinnati, a game where the Rams fell behind by such a big margin they had to basically junk the running game for much of the second half.
This is normally the time of the long NFL season when all rookies, much less those coming off surgery like Gurley, can hit the wall. But Gurley would have none of it.
“What wall?” he said. “I’m good.”
The only wall he’ll face will be the one the Big Red plan to throw at him in his first rematch game against a division opponent. And that could be a formidable one.
znModeratorPractice Report 12/4: Defending an Explosive Offense
Myles Simmons
Since head coach Bruce Arians and quarterback Carson Palmer arrived, the Cardinals’ offense has been known for its ability to create explosive plays. This season, Arizona leads the league with 57 plays of at least 20 yards — 49 via pass and eight via run. With those numbers, Palmer is No. 1 in both yards per attempt (8.8) and yards per completion (13.8).
Arizona’s penchant for explosive plays can be a challenge for any team to defend, and will be for the Rams on Sunday.
“We’ve had a couple of really big time offenses we’ve had to go against this year and I’m looking forward to our opportunity again this year,” defensive coordinator Gregg Williams said after Friday’s practice. “Our guys understand the personnel because it’s within our division. They understand that aspect of it. So now, it’s going out and understanding leverage, understanding space, what they’re trying to do, where they’re trying to create their opportunity to move the ball. Can our guys defend it? We’ll see.”
Palmer in particular is playing quite well leading the offense. He’s completed 63.6 percent of his passes for 3,337 yards with 27 touchdowns and nine interceptions. His 7.1 percent touchdown rate also tops the NFL.
“I’ve been very impressed with how accurate of a thrower he is,” Williams said. “He’s done a very good job of moving around, buying extra time. If he has a concept in mind that he wants to do — boom — he goes ahead and does it. He’s done a very good job on being consistent.”
“Carson, to me, you look back at last year at what happened once he got hurt, where they went — Drew Stanton tried to do a good job to carry the ship, but they’re just not the same without Carson out there,” linebacker James Laurinaitis said. “He’s playing at a very high level. I have a lot of respect for him.”
Undoubtedly Arians is a significant factor in Palmer’s success. It’s the third season the two have worked together in the desert, and Arians said this week Palmer is playing as well as anyone he’s ever coached.
“The guy is a workaholic,” Arians said. “He knows how he learns. I think we’ve all learned how he learns, so we can teach him better. That’s why the growing pains when you get an older quarterback and you have to learn really how he learns. I think now we’ve got a system in place where he’s prepared every ball game, and it’s get the other 10 guys around him on the same page with him.”
But the key to getting to that point with a coach and quarterback, according to Arians, is having a great sense of trust.
“You have to have communication every day because you’re tied at the hip,” Arians said. “Your job is depending on him. You’ve got to have trust in a relationship, whether it’s honesty going back and forth and accountability back and forth.”
The kind of season Palmer is having does soften the blow of losing starting running back Chris Johnson to a fractured tibia. Johnson was placed on IR with a designation to return a few days ago after suffering the injury against San Francisco in Week 12. Fellow running back Andre Ellington has already been declared out for Sunday’s matchup with turf toe. And so rookie David Johnson is likely to be the first man up in the backfield this weekend.
“David is more than ready,” Arians said. “When Andre was hurt, he played a bunch in the previous game, although it wasn’t his best game. We feel very confident he’s more than ready.”
A third-round pick out of Northern Iowa, David Johnson leads the team with eight total touchdowns. The rookie caught four passes for 63 yards — including a 23-yard touchdown — and had 18 yards rushing on three carries when the Rams faced the Cardinals in October.
“He played well and got all of our attention the last time we played them,” Williams said. “Our guys have a lot of respect for him. He’s very powerful. He’s got some shiftiness to him when he needs to. But, he’s a very good receiver in the passing game too. Not only does he do everything they want in the running game, but when you put the ball in his hands, he’s made some big plays in the passing game. I don’t think they’re going to miss a beat.”
“Earlier in the year when we played them, they used him a lot — kind of in their empty third down stuff,” Laurinaitis said. “He runs a lot of routes for them in their no-back stuff.”
No matter who is at running back, the Cardinals are likely to move the ball and score points. That’s why clamping down and playing strong red-zone defense — like the Rams played the last time these two teams squared off — will be of particular importance in Sunday’s contest.
“We spend an inordinate amount of time in the red zone also throughout the course of the week. Learned that a long time ago,” Williams said. “We’ve got to take the ball away. Got to play stout against the run, but you’ve got to do a great job in the red zone, got to do a great job on third down.”
“When you’re playing an offense like this, I mean, field goals are wins,” Rams head coach Jeff Fisher said. “We’ve said that before. Field goals are wins for your defense. We have to get off the field on occasion on third down. We keep Carson on their sideline, then we have a chance.”
INJURY REPORT
As Fisher said on Thursday, the Rams will start Nick Foles at quarterback against Arizona. Case Keenum was limited once again in Friday’s practice, and is listed as questionable for the game.
“We’ll see how he is tomorrow and make a decision on whether he’s [No.] two or [No.] three [at quarterback],” If he’s two, he’s been completely cleared and ready to play. If he’s two, he’s two because he’s been cleared, one, and two, he hasn’t had sufficient reps to practice during the week.”
If Keenum is inactive, then Sean Mannion would serve as the backup quarterback.
Elsewhere on the injury report, right tackle Rob Havenstein (calf) is probable. Offensive lineman Andrew Donnal (knee) is out. Greg Zuerlein (right hip), Trumaine Johnson (thigh), and Robert Quinn (back) are all listed as doubtful.
Quinn’s injury has had plenty of ripple effects along the D-line, as it would for any team missing a player who recorded a franchise season record for sacks. But Fisher gave plenty of credit to Eugene Sims, who has started in Quinn’s stead.
“We miss him, but Eugene’s playing well out there and the other guys are rushing hard,” Fisher said. “[Quinn’s] a difference maker. He’s one of those guys that can change the game at any point in the game. So, definitely, we miss him, but as most teams miss their Pro Bowl quality players.”
Defensive tackle Aaron Donald did say this week it seems like teams are paying him a little more attention on the inside in Quinn’s absence.
“A lot more double teams — not much I can do about that but just keep playing,” Donald said. “Anytime you lose a playmaker it’s going to be tough. He’s a guy that’s a leader and makes a lot of plays for us. Other guys just have to step up, continue to do what we’ve been doing.”
“It’s impossible to replace Robert,” Laurinaitis said. “The duo of Aaron’s quickness inside and Robert’s speed rush — if Robert gets around the corner the quarterback has to step up and Aaron is in his face. If Aaron gets pressure up the middle, the quarterback has to flush out and Robert is there to get him. It’s such a deadly combo that when you miss one half of it, it affects the whole rotation, and snaps, and all that as well. Hopefully, we get Rob back soon.”
znModeratorYou are a Tech-guy, Ag. Surely,
there is an APP, I can get that will delete
Frank Cusumano, and leave JT in the audio.w
vFrank Cusumano has been a sportscaster at KSDK for 20 years, where he has won 14 Emmys for his storytelling and sports coverage.
I don’t know this the way locals do, but I think FC is a basketball guy, primarily. As a football guy, I find him kind of lacking, and I completely get WV’s view. He also has these agendas, and they’re never interesting ones either–just run of the mill stuff about the Rams. I too listen to JT not Frank. It’s funny to hear Frank argue with Howard.
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znModeratorThe Cardinals will regret having ever HEARD of St. Louis.
They already do, to the point of leaving St. Louis.
znModeratorOne thing we can assess is the Fisher regime’s ability to acquire viable OL personnel.Fisher,Snead and Boo are the constants. A four year sample size to work with. Wells had existing knee problems when he broke his foot in week 1.
No that’s not true of Wells. He had a routine clean-up scope after playing every game in 2011. That was not an “existing knee problem.” The absurd series of injuries and infections he had after signing with the Rams—one of which sent him to ICU where he lost 40 pounds just before camp—had nothing to do with prior conditions.
Here;s what we can say about Fisher and Boudreau and OLs.
First, they both put together good ones several times over a combined 40 years prior to the Rams.
Second, they put together good ones with the Rams, when they were not held back by multiple simultaneous injuries. So for example, in 2012, after the injury epidemic in the first 8 games, they were relatively healthy and played well. That is, Jackson got 4.3 a carry, their sack percentage of 4% was the lowest for any Rams qb since the mid 80s, and they went 4-3-1 in games that included the NFC champ that year and 5 top 12 defenses. You can’t do all of that combined with poor OL.
2013 has a similar profile.
In each case, one neglected feature of their good work with OLs is the long list of recycled vets they used who had never done anything before the Rams and never did anything after the Rams…but played well with the Rams.
In terms of the injuries, that is just plain stupid bad luck. Nothing else can explain this: in the last 2 years they added 8 rookie/young linemen, and at this point, 7 of them have been injured. Yet only ONE of them had a previous injury history (Donnal).
A small percentage of Rams OL acquisitions had prior injury histories and it does not include Wells. Yet in spite of any prior injury history, the Rams OL continues to suffer multiple injuries.
The only explanation I can come up with for that is that sometimes random chance is particularly bad to you. And that beyond that there is no explanation.
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znModeratorRams added 12 linemen in the last 2 years. They could add more based on their own internal aassessment. And then they might not.
It is way too soon to sort out who is good or bad in that. 2 things make the issue murky. First, a line that young and inexperienced will not be coherent and in sync. That’s a “sum is greater than the parts” issue. It is difficult to reduce all that to one on one grades and then act like that’s a real OL eval. Truth is until they settle down as a unit it is hard to make too many generalizations about the individual parts.
Fact is the vast majority of young linemen struggle initially. I have done the numbers on this multiple times. That means that any judgment anyone has of a rookie or 2nd year guy is potentially off-base. This is true of 1st round picks through UDFAs. Most assessments of young linemen are just shots in the dark. The majority of the time, you don’t really know what you have for a couple of years. Now and then a guy like Havenstein defies those odds but it’s rare.
Then of course on top of it they got multiple injuries. (Some people keep mistaking that issue for the started out young and inexperienced issues. While it is always true that multiple simultaneous OL injuries will reduce the effectiveness of an offense, and it’s true now, that’s not the reason the 2015 offense started out slow. They started out slow because it was the youngest and least inexperienced NFL any of us have ever heard of.)
In terns of the guys they added, always remember this—the Rams have a way of making something out of re-cycled vets and have done that since 2012. There’s a long list of guys who played effectively for the Rams who never did anything before or since. That includes guys like Barksdale, Smith, and Turner etc. So it’s important to remember that going forward. They have a bunch of new vets added to the roster, and by next year guys like that could be anything from starters to good depth. This year, Reynolds is another example of that, though he is better at guard than ROT (he played ROT because the Rams had 3 prior injuries there—Havenstein, Williams, and Donnal.)
Here;s the 12 they added, in alphabetical order. And of course they may decide to add more.
Arkin. another Reynolds? don’t rule it out.
Battle. rookie, who knows yet.
Brown. started out with promise, injured
Donnal. too little sample size, injured.
Folkerts. another Reynolds? don’t rule it out.
Havenstein. started out with promise, injured
Kush. another Reynolds? don’t rule it out.
Reynolds.
Rhaney. struggling youngster
Robinson. struggling youngster
Wichman. struggling youngster
Williams. too little sample size, injured.Then there’s Barnes as an inherited vet, and of course they have Saffold on IR. So that’s 14 total, though who knows if Saffold is in the future mix or not.
14 linemen is a lot to work with.
And maybe they don’t think they’re done…who knows.
HOWEVER, I want to stress that any PRESENT assessment of their value as a group is going to be way premature and not really tell us anything. They’re too young overall and multiple injuries clouded it further.
znModeratorRams want to get Gurley, running game, out of doldrums
Jim Thomas
Few rookies regardless of position have opened their NFL careers with the impact Todd Gurley did for the Rams this season. The numbers and the milestones are familiar to most.
First rookie in league history with 125 yards-plus rushing in his first four starts.
More yards rushing in his first four starts than any NFL player in the Super Bowl era.
Gurley was the NFL’s offensive rookie of the month for October. He got that Jolly Ranchers endorsement. He was heralded by analysts and media members across the land.
In short, he was the next big thing. Just like that.
But after that amazing start, the yardage and highlight-reel runs have dried up.
In his first four starts, Gurley averaged 142 yards per game and 6.4 yards per carry. That period encompassed starts against Arizona, Green Bay, Cleveland and San Francisco, with the Rams going 3-1 in those contests.
But in Gurley’s next four starts, his production has been more than cut in half. Namely, 55 yards per game and 3.1 yards per carry. The Rams are 0-4 in those games against Minnesota, Chicago, Baltimore and Cincinnati.
Thanks in part to the work of wide receiver Tavon Austin on end-arounds and jet sweeps, the Rams still rank seventh in the league in rushing offense entering Sunday’s rematch with Arizona.
But for the most part, the bottom has fallen out of the running game as teams load the box with extra defenders to swarm Gurley, and the Rams’ injury-plagued offensive line goes through one combination after another.
“He’s not frustrated,” coach Jeff Fisher said. “He’s a team guy. He’s having fun. Wants to help us win. He knows he’s a big part of this team. His production on the field not only helps offense, it helps defense, it helps everything.”
A decline in explosive plays has coincided with the decline in production for Gurley. The Rams define an explosive run as a carry gaining 10 yards or more. In his first four starts Gurley had 15 such explosive runs, including gains of 30, 48, 54, 55 and 71 yards.
In his next four starts, Gurley has had only two such runs — on gains of 13 and 16 yards Nov. 8 at Minnesota. He hasn’t had a run longer than nine yards in the three games since then.
“It’s execution,” Gurley said. “Doing what we’ve got to do. Taking the right steps, taking the right track, whether it’s getting a double block or a triple, (or) single. Just basically execution.”
Obviously, the line injuries haven’t helped. Beginning with the first game in the current losing streak — Minnesota — Gurley has failed to reach 100 yards. Beginning with that contest, the Rams have featured a different starting combination up front for four consecutive weeks.
Starting right guard Jamon Brown was lost for the season Nov. 15 against Chicago. Starting right tackle Rob Havenstein has missed three of the past four games with what has been described as ankle and calf injuries. Even one of the replacements on the line, Andrew Donnal, is out with a knee injury.
“It’s just staying on our blocks and giving Todd a chance,” said Havenstein, who could return to the lineup this week. “Because he’s gonna do special things. He’s just that type of player, that type of back.”
The Rams tweaked the running game to a degree against Cincinnati. Among the new wrinkles was the Wildcat formation in which Gurley lined up in the shotgun formation behind center with quarterback Nick Foles split out like a wide receiver.
In two plays out of the Wildcat, the Rams got 60 yards on a Gurley handoff to Austin, and later got a modest three yards on a Gurley keeper. Gimmick plays can help to a degree, but only for a few plays.
They can’t solve deeper problems, such as not opening enough holes with a greener-than-green offensive line. Or not showing enough prowess in the passing game to keep defenses honest and get them to back off the line of scrimmage.
“We’ve looked hard at it,” Fisher said. “We just gotta continue to give him opportunities. So we’ll get creative in the run game, and gonna get hats on hats and let him go.”
“It takes all 11,” offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti said Thursday. “One, we’ve got to get him at-bats, get him carries. Through four quarters of it, we impose our will. Hopefully like last time, you continue to get better throughout the game.”
That was a reference to Gurley’s first NFL start, Oct. 4 at Arizona. As a team, the Rams had only nine yards rushing on nine carries in the first half — a half in which Arizona had a 2-to-1 edge in time of possession.
Things started out slowly in the third quarter on the ground, but the Rams stayed with the running game and suddenly things started clicking. Gurley had runs of 23 and 12 yards on a third quarter touchdown drive; then had runs of 12 and 52 yards on a fourth-quarter TD march. When all was said and done, he finished with 19 carries for 146 yards in a 24-22 upset victory.
Gurley had only nine carries (for 19 yards) in last week’s 31-7 blowout loss in Cincinnati, a game where the Rams fell behind by such a big margin they had to basically junk the running game for much of the second half.
This is normally the time of the long NFL season when all rookies, much less those coming off surgery like Gurley, can hit the wall. But Gurley would have none of it.
“What wall?” he said. “I’m good.”
The only wall he’ll face will be the one the Big Red plan to throw at him in his first rematch game against a division opponent. And that could be a formidable one.
znModeratorWith the offensive line still battling injuries … Brady’s quick release will likely be key to the offense once again.
According to PFF Brady throws quick a higher percentage of the time than any other qb.
He is sacked 1.7% of the time on quick throws, and completes 70% of his quick passes.
In contrast, when they take longer to throw, he is sacked 14.9% of the time…which is just freaking bad…and completes 50% of his passes
znModeratorNFL Network promo
Some ex Viking said “My Vikings” and Kurt said against “My Cardinals”
I thought his jaw was wired shut…friggin’ Traitor… I blame Brenda.
Okay, I see, thanks.
I guess evil wears many masks, and never rests.
znModeratorThat would cost the rams a top-ten pick.
I dunno, I think they fully explored the “top 10 pick” thing. Like every year, vacation is Orlando.
I think it’s time to see how picks in the 20s go. Like this year, let’s go to Lake Erie instead.
znModeratorBarf!
I saw that. Made me sick.
I feel left out of the joke. What happened? I am assuming a broadcaster said something dumb.
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znModeratorPractice Report 12/3: Replicating Gurley’s Success, Foles to Start at QB
Myles Simmons
In Week 4, running back Todd Gurley made his first pro start against the Cardinals in Arizona. St. Louis’ ground game had not been particularly effective in the first three contests, but head coach Jeff Fisher continued to say the club was close to breaking out.
All that came to fruition in the second half of St. Louis’ 24-22 victory, as Gurley ran for 144 yards in the third and fourth quarters, including runs of 52, 30, 23, and 20 yards. The running back also slid down in the final period instead of running in for what would have been his first NFL touchdown, allowing the Rams to keep the ball and kill the clock.
But even after all that, Gurley said the most memorable part of the game was just coming away with a victory.
“Hopefully, we can get that again and be undefeated in the division,” Gurley said Thursday.
That first Arizona contest started a string of four straight games of at least 125 yards rushing for the rookie out of Georgia. But lately, Gurley’s numbers have gone down. Last week, Gurley had only nine carries for 19 yards.
Offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti said the team would like to get Gurley more carries this weekend in order to kick start the rushing attack again.
“Hopefully like last time, you continue to get better throughout the game,” Cignetti said.
“We had a slow first half against the Cardinals, then we had a big second half,” Fisher said. “We’ve looked hard at it. We just have to continue to give him opportunities. So, we’ll get creative in the run game, and got to get hats on hats, and let him go.”
But the Cardinals will be revved up to slow Gurley down. Defensive back Tyrann Mathieu said this week Arizona may have let up just a bit in the second half of that October matchup, based on how the game had gone through the first two quarters.
“For some reason in the second half, we just didn’t play our assignments the proper way — getting out of gaps, just creating these large running lanes for Gurley to run through,” Mathieu said. “Obviously, any time you have a running back with his type of ability, any type of open field, it’s a good deal. So, we have to do a better job of constricting running lanes and definitely having more than one person trying to tackle him.”
It’s also been a while since Gurley broke off a long run, as his last rush of at least 20 yards was his 71-yard touchdown against San Francisco on Nov. 1.
“You don’t point your finger at one thing,” Cignetti said. “First off, you give defenses credit. Defenses have done a very nice job. We’re going to continue to give him at bats. The big ones will come.”
But don’t think the decreased production is because of a so-called “rookie wall.”
“What wall?” Gurley replied to that inquiry. “I’m good.”
“He’s in great shape right now,” Fisher said, later adding, “He’s not frustrated. He’s a team guy. He’s having fun, wants to help us win. He knows he’s a big part of this team. His production on the field not only helps offense, it helps defense, it helps everything. He’s in good shape.”
One aspect that may help the ground game pick up is the likely return of right tackle Rob Havenstein to the starting lineup. The rookie offensive lineman has missed three of the last four games due to injury, but Havenstein said Thursday he’s getting back to 100 percent.
“I’m feeling pretty good,” Havenstein said. “Our training staff has been doing an excellent job with me and communicating with everyone, and been on the same page. I’m giving my all to get back out there.”
“It’s great getting Rob back,” Cignetti said. “He’s smart, tough, physical. He’s making tremendous progress every day, every game.”
With the myriad injuries across the offensive line, Gurley and the unit have had to make adjustments based on who is out there.
“Same schemes at the end of the day. One man goes down, another man has to step up. It is what it is,” Gurley said. “Rob’s a great player. But, like I said, whoever is in there, we feel confident and we’re going to try and get the job done. Rob is a great player, so definitely happy to have him back.”
According to Havenstein, the key to replicating the success the Rams had against the Cardinals in their first meeting is fairly simple.
“It’s just staying on our blocks and giving Todd a chance,” Havenstein said. “He’s going to do special things. He’s that type of player, that type of back, and the way he works in practice is unbelievable. All we have to do is our job — whatever your job is on that play, just do your job and just give Todd a chance to make a play.”
If the Rams can do that, they’ll have a great chance to win on Sunday.
FOLES TO START ON SUNDAY
With quarterback Case Keenum still going through the concussion protocol, Fisher said Nick Foles would be the team’s starting signal-caller against Arizona this week.
“It’s part of the protocol, we’re just evaluating [Keenum],” Fisher said. “All the tests with the neurologists and things are OK. It’s just about him feeling 100 percent.”
If Keenum is feeling ready to go on Friday, Fisher said the quarterback could be the backup for Sunday. If not, that role would once again fall to rookie Sean Mannion.
“He’s got a chance to be a [No.] two this week, particularly because he’s missed two days of practice,” Fisher said. “What we’re hoping for is whether he’s a two or just inactive. So, Nick’s going.”
While it won’t be for this week, when Keenum is good to go, Fisher reiterated the Houston product will once again be the team’s starter.
INJURY REPORT
There were no changes from Wednesday to Thursday on the injury report.
Robert Quinn (back), Andrew Donnal (knee), Trumaine Johnson (thigh), and Greg Zuerlein (right hip) did not practice. Keenum (concussion) was able to practice on a limited basis. And Rob Havenstein was a full participant in Thursday’s session.
znModeratorScout: I’d hate to be team in need of QB in 2016 NFL Draft
By Daniel Jeremiah and Lance Zierlein
he scoop: “I’d hate to be a team in need of a quarterback. The best two in this draft might end up being from Memphis and North Dakota State and that ought to scare the (expletive) out of you. It takes some courage to turn that card in.” — NFC scout
The skinny: Any time a general manager takes a quarterback early in the first round, he’s putting his job on the line, no matter where the player comes from. It might be a lot easier to pull the trigger on a QB from a marquee program who has played on a big stage before, but certainly this scout knows that there are plenty of examples of QBs from top programs that were picked early and went bust (JaMarcus Russell, anyone?). We’ve seen QBs from small schools come off the board early and go on to great success (Ben Roethlisberger, Phil Simms, Terry Bradshaw).
As for the two QBs he’s referring to, North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz will get a chance to prove himself against tougher competition at the Reese’s Senior Bowl in January. Memphis’ Paxton Lynch is a junior and has not revealed his intentions for the 2016 NFL Draft. As an underclassman, he has until a Jan. 18 deadline to make a decision on early draft entry. Both QBs are impressive talents. Our colleague Gil Brandt sees plenty to like in Wentz’s game, and we saw the qualities of a top QB prospect when we took an up-close look at Lynch last month.
znModeratorNo kidding? I wouldn’t know, I didn’t watch him till this year. Is he on meth or something?
It’s all just theories. But, he was never a razzle-dazzle passing phenom. He had his strengths. He was never great under pressure, though this time he has completely unraveled. He’s also in this odd situation where he has been demoted but starts anyway as the #2 because the #1 is still recovering. I don’t think I have seen anything quite like that.
znModeratorNope, Arians still doesn’t like Rams
Jim Thomas
Bruce Arians played nice Wednesday on his conference call with reporters in St. Louis.
He talked about how he has been going against Rams coach Jeff Fisher and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams for a long time, and how the Rams have a great coaching staff.
“I respect the heck out of them,” Arians added. “It’s been a great game every time we’ve played since we got here. It’s a big division game.”
That’s called laying it on a little thick. By now we all know better from Arians, the crusty, straight-shooting coach of the NFC West-leading Arizona Cardinals.
Following the Cardinals’ hard-fought 19-13 victory over San Francisco this past Sunday, Arians said the Big Red must now get ready to play “that team we don’t like.” And he was up to his usual high jinks talking to Arizona reporters Wednesday, when he again talked about his dislike of the Rams.
“I’ll have dinner with ’em, but I ain’t liking ’em,” Arians said. “I ain’t drinking with ’em.”
OK, part of this is pure showmanship. But you also get the feeling that Arians probably won’t be exchanging Christmas cards with Fisher later this month. Then again, that’s what division rivalries are supposed to be like.
Does it hurt the Rams’ feelings that Arians doesn’t like them?
“No,” tight end Lance Kendricks said, laughing. “It’s motivation for both sides.”
“If they don’t like us, that’s perfectly OK,” linebacker James Laurinaitis added.
The Arians barbs were more pointed last Dec. 11 after a hard-fought 12-6 Arizona victory in a Thursday night game at the Edward Jones Dome.
“Everybody wanted to say how great their defense is, but I think they saw a good defense tonight, and it was in red and white,” Arians said at the time.
The Rams were coming off back-to-back shutouts entering that game, so their defense was receiving some hype.
“I love it when nobody says that you will have a chance to win,” Arians said after the game. “There is an 11-3 team, and a team that is always 8-8. You figure it out.”
The 8-8 remark is a now-familiar shot at Fisher’s résumé, and it’s one that the Rams’ coach not surprisingly doesn’t like. Even so, he has steered clear of any war of words with Arians and the Cardinals. And Wednesday was no different.
“I think we’ve got a rivalry going in the division with all three teams,” Fisher said. “I wouldn’t go as far as to say we don’t like them. We respect them and they play hard. We greeted (Arians) when the game’s over.
“Unfortunately for them, we were one of the two games that they lost.”
OK, maybe a slight jab there by Fisher. That was a reference to the Rams’ 24-22 victory at Arizona on Oct. 4, only the fourth loss by Arians in 21 games at University of Phoenix Stadium.
“I’m sure that there’s extra motivation there in addition to their playoff run and trying to secure a home-field advantage and all those kinds of things,” Fisher continued. “But we’re going to play; we’re going to play hard.”
Arizona (9-2) can’t clinch a playoff berth with a victory Sunday in St. Louis, but it can guarantee a 12th consecutive non-winning season for the Rams (4-7).
Amazingly, the Rams are unbeaten against the NFC West this season (3-0), but just 1-7 against the rest of the NFL. Although not quite so lopsided, that’s been the way it has gone since Fisher got here in 2012. The Rams are 10-10-1 against the NFC West, one of football’s toughest divisions in recent years, but 14-24 against everybody else.
“We built this team to compete in the division,” Fisher said. “There’s familiarity. I’m disappointed that we haven’t played good football outside the division, but we have good matchups (in the division). We understand the matchups. We understand the challenges.”
With hopes for a playoff berth all but extinguished, and the prospect of another losing season looming unmistakably on the horizon, that 3-0 record against the division is about all the Rams have to hang their hat on these days.
And to some Rams, this season is more about what the Rams haven’t done outside the division, than what they have done inside it.
“Honestly, it just comes down to us not finishing games this year,” defensive end William Hayes said. “You could put your finger on three games and say that it could’ve been a coin toss, it could’ve went either way.
“And that’s the big thing. I don’t think it has nothing to do with Coach (Fisher). I just think us as a collective group — the players — we’re not doing a good job of finishing plays and doing the things we need to do to win these football games.”
The three games Hayes was referring to were losses to Pittsburgh (12-6), Minnesota (21-18, in overtime), and Baltimore (16-13).
“You win those three games, now you’re talking about us being a wild-card team,” Hayes said. “And all this stuff that’s been going on in the media (about Fisher’s job security) is not even being mentioned.”
Those three games — Pittsburgh, Minnesota, and Baltimore — are the difference between 4-7 and 7-4.
“Exactly,” Hayes.
And the difference between two teams headed in opposite directions — the Cardinals have won five straight; the Rams have lost four in a row.
“We know what our challenges are,” Laurinaitis said. “We know that they have an unbelievable offense. They obviously have a couple backs out. They’re gonna come in here probably thinking they can throw it all around. Nobody’s gonna give us a chance to win.”
Probably not. Not even with feature back Chris Johnson (knee, leg) definitely out and third-down back Andre Ellington (turf toe) not expected to play Sunday for the Big Red.
znModeratorFoles kinda sux though I think – those weird rainbow passes, poor vision, and apparent inability to go through progressions.
Most of that? You wouldn’t have seen it in 2014.
There’s something going on this year that wasn’t part of his past.
But then all you can do is show the numbers.
Foles 2014:
completions 59.8%, TDs 4.2%, INTs 3.2%, YPA 7.0, qb rating 81.4
Foles 1st 4 games 2015
completions 63.1%, TDs 4.5%, INTs 0.9%, YPA 7.3, qb rating 98
Foles last 6 games 2015
completions 55.0%, TDs, 1.0%, INTs 4.2%, YPA 5.7, qb rating 63.9
znModeratorEarly preview: Rams vs. Cardinals
Joe Lyons
COMING THIS WEEK
The reeling Rams, 4-7 and losers in their last four outings, will square off with the hottest team outside of undefeated Carolina when they face the Arizona Cardinals (9-2) in a noon game Sunday at the Edward Jones Dome. Arizona gutted out a 19-13 win at San Francisco on Sunday and has won five in a row and six of its last seven.
PLAYER TO WATCH
Wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald. In his 12th NFL season, the 32-year-old Fitzgerald shows no signs of slowing down any time soon. On Sunday, he caught 10 passes for 66 yards while surpassing a pair of league legends. With 13,143 career receiving yards, he passed Hall of Famer Steve Largent and moved into 16th place on the all-time list and with 992 career catches as he moved to No. 12, passing future Hall of Famer Randy Moss as well as current 49ers’ wideout Anquan Boldin.
An eight-time Pro Bowl selection, Fitzgerald has 83 catches for 992 yards and seven touchdowns this season.
HE SAID IT
“It was just a fight,’’ Arizona quarterback Carson Palmer said after the Cardinals won at San Francisco for the first time since 2008. “That was an NFC West fight. And that’s what we’re going. Being on top the way we are, we’re going to get everybody’s best shot.’’
Palmer, who struggled at times Sunday, scored the go-ahead TD on an 8-yard run with 2:28 to play. It was just the eighth scoring run of his career and his first since 2008. With the win, the Cardinals have a three-game lead atop the NFC West.
INJURIES
Rams coach Jeff Fisher is hopeful that QB Case Keenum (concussion), DE Robert Quinn (hip/back), tackle Rob Havenstein (calf), cornerback Trumaine Johnson (thigh) and kicker Greg Zuerlein (groin) can make it back to the practice field at some point this week.
In the third quarter of Sunday’s road game, the Cardinals lost cornerback Jerraud Powers (calf) and running backs Chris Johnson (knee) and Andre Ellington (foot) to injury. On Monday, Johnson, a prime candidate for Comeback Player of the Year, learned that he’d broken his tibia and would be out indefinitely. The Cardinals played Sunday without defensive linemen Frostee Rucker (ankle), Cory Redding (ankle) and Ed Stinson (groin).
SERIES HISTORY
The Rams, who trail 37-35-2 in the series, snapped a three-game losing streak against the Cardinals with a 24-22 win on Oct. 4 at University of Phoenix Stadium. The Rams set the tone early in the Week 4 contest as Mark Barron knocked the ball away from the Cardinals’ David Johnson on the opening kickoff and teammate Daren Bates recovered at the Arizona 17 to set up a 12-yard TD pass from Nick Foles to Tavon Austin. The visiting Rams held the lead the rest of the way, limiting the Cardinals to five field goals and a TD pass with 4:38 to play.
znModeratorFoles kinda sux though I think – those weird rainbow passes, poor vision, and apparent inability to go through progressions.
Most of that? You wouldn’t have seen it in 2014.
There’s something going on this year that wasn’t part of his past.
znModeratorRT Havenstein (calf) was full participation.
That’s good news anyway. That means Reynolds goes back to LOG. He’s not only better AT LOG he is better than any other LOG option. Only Wichman is a newbie. It’s a better OL. With Hav out, they had to short change 3 positions; now it’s just one.
znModeratorJim Plunkett 35 years ago…….
Does Chris Chandler, Stan Humphries, Billy Kilmer, David Woodley, or Craig Morton count?
It’s not a very common occurance……
Warren Moon anyone?
Gannon, Buerelein, Testeverde….
znModeratorRight now, LMU’s numbers are different from mine.
I will have to double check mine.
Numbers double-checked. LMU was wrong on a couple of things too. .
I am going to edit the previous numbers posts.
……………..
Weeks 1-4
70/111 (63.1%), 5 TDs, 1 INT- 98 QB Rating
Weeks 5-12
105/191 (55.0%),2 TDs, 8 INTs- 63.9 QB Rating
In terms of the 2 game v. 6 game comparison, with just Pitt and Washington v. the last 6 games, it’s
Pitt/Wash
36/60 (60%) 1 TD 1 INT, 74.7 QB Rating
Weeks 5-12
105/191 (55.0%),2 TDs, 8 INTs- 63.9 QB Rating
znModeratorRight now, LMU’s numbers are different from mine.
I will have to double check mine.
===================
A couple of NUMBERS WRONG so edited, see next post for the fix
———–
LMU93
Foles: weeks 1-4 vs. weeks 5-12
Astounding.
Weeks 1-4
70/111 (63.1%), 815 yards, 7.3 YPA, 5 TDs, 1 INT- 96.5 QB RatingWeeks 5-12
105/191 (55.0%), 1,091 yards, 5.7 YPA, 2 TDs, 8 INTs- 57.7 QB Rating-
This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by
zn.
znModeratorI cant listen to Frank. I stopped listening to him a while back. I dont mean to be
mean…but he seems really dim-witted to me. And he doesnt listen. And he has
no clue how to ask follow up questions. And he doesn’t know how to do an interview.
I think he must be related to the station owner er somethin.If you listen to John Clayton on that, his thing was, where was the NFL spotter. He pointed out that a slo-mo close-up view on tv is not what you see from the sidelines. The spotter, though, had the tv view. He says he didn’t intervene because the Rams trainer was out there talking to CK. However, of course, the Rams trainer didn’t know what the spotter knew.
The assessment appears to be that means there’s a crack in the procedures. The league set out to fix that particular glitch so it doesn’t happen again.
I really think that just sums it up. To me, the people blaming Fisher are just incorrect about what happened. They get their eyes filled with the tv view and act like that what we saw in that view was visible from the sidelines.
.
znModeratorIf he’s such a find why couldn’t he earlier break into the ridiculously weak WR lineup of the Rams? I’m more impressed with Welker and wonder why it took so long to even look at him?
Well because #1 rookies don’t play much for Fisher right off. Not on offense anyway. However, he was doing special things on special teams, too. So I don’t think he’s a frontline receiver, just a very good complementary player who always seems to be doing smart things.
And it doesn’t hurt that of the Rams WRs and TEs who have had 10 or more targets, he has the highest catch percentage and is tied for the lowest drop percentage.
znModeratorOnce a QB totally loses it, can he get it back?
Anybody got any examples?
Was it Schaub that was good for a while
and then went crazy with INTs and bad play…and then?
Did he ever play well again? I dont keep up with other teams
anymore.Did Bulger ever play well again after
he was bulgerized?I think Jim Everett went to pieces
and came back didnt he? I forget.Sometimes players just cant get it back.
I’m not sure how good Foles was to begin with.
I dunno anymore.w
vThe problem with the Bulger example is that what caused his decline…a total OL wipe-out…continued. So it wasn’t just 2007, it was 2008 and 2009 too. He had 3 solid years of those conditions. He eventually retired from the game because he had had so many concussions. And that was before concussion protocols.
Warner did play poorly in NY. There’s a myth about that because sometimes people say that the Giants had a winning record when they pulled him. Actually they had lost 4 out of the last 5 games. When I read around in the NY press accounts to get their view of it, the consensus was that the Giants OL had fallen apart.
One example that comes immediately to mind is Cutler. None of his previous years were as good as this one.
McCown was bad as a rule before 2013, good in 2013, bad again in 2014, good again in 2015. For example his last 3 years, his qb rate was 109.0 (Chicago), 70.5 (Tampa), 93.3 (Cleveland).
So just tossing ideas out there without studying it.
I would say it’s possible, yeah.
…znModeratorGreen Bay is not the turning point for Foles….
Foles pre-GB…. his numbers vs Arizona and Seattle sku those pre-GB numbers, because Foles wasn’t very good vs Pittsburgh and in Washington ….
Foles benefited from 3 turnovers vs Seattle and got 146 yards rushing from Gurley in Arizona..
The Rams cannot put the game on Foles’ shoulders, because when they do, they lose. He had chances in Washington, Pittsburgh, and in Minnesota… he wasn’t even a “game manager” in those games…….
First, there’s ups and downs within each patch. So for example he was statisically okay against SF and Cleveland. Minnesota was after Green Bay.
As I recall no one was putting those games on Foles. For example, if Kendricks had held on to the ball against the Steelers, Rams would have won.
But following your your response, let;s just isolate Wash and Pitt and compare just those to the GB-and-after games.
NUMBERS were WRONG so edited and fixed:
In terms of the 2 game v. 6 game comparison, with just Pitt and Washington v. the last 6 games, it’s
Pitt/Wash
26/60 (60%) 1 TD 1 INT, 74.7 QB Rating
Weeks 5-12
105/191 (55.0%),2 TDs, 8 INTs- 63.9 QB Rating
I would rather have the 1st set of games. And of course the improvement for THAT Foles would come from the young OL eventually gelling.
znModeratorI think our biggest disagreement is on Greg Robinson.
You seem to think “he’ll be fine” and I seem to think
“no, he wont”.Well, the difference there is that I am just a normal objective Rams fan, and you are not, which means you approach the entire thing blinded by spite and malice.
But of course I hasten to add, that’s your right. So don’t let people like me tell you you have to be right about things in order to post.
.
znModeratorfrom off the net
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Flipper336
The qbs, 2016
Guys will get pushed up/hyped because of the position. I see no top 10 types and probably no top 25 types either. My early view though (VERY loose order)….
I still like Hackenburg. I have seen EVERY other top QB in this draft struggle just as bad or worse when dealing with even close to the pressure/defensive stress he sees on a consistent basis…and all have better help on the offensive side. Lightning quick release, makes every throw with ease, keeps eyes downfield, has no conscience or quit even after two years of beatings. Makes some inaccurate passes that make me slap my forehead wondering what happened though.
Carson Wentz – overall mechanics need to be tightened up. Accurate, doesn’t panic with pressure, can make plays on the run with his legs or arm. The competition issue doesn’t bother me.
Paxton Lynch – Big, mobile, cannon arm, throws with nice accuracy to all levels.
Connor Cook – Really solid prospect. Sets up quickly, gets through his progressions, extremely fast release. Inconsistent accuracy but can be pinpoint. Really good example of “what if ” with Hackenburg. Very similar prospects but I think Hack is even better at Michigan State and wonder if Cook isn’t a late round guy at Penn State.
Goff – Similar prospect to Bradford but he’s at least faced some pressure and made some tight window throws.
Jacob Coker – Was neck and neck for the Florida St. job when J.Winston finally won it at the wire. Big with good feet, strong arm, accurate, keeps his offense on schedule.
Kevin Hogan – Hate his delivery but makes quick, smart decisions and throws with good timing and accuracy.
==========
from off the net
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Deadpool
Its really early.
As far as the top 6 today:
1. Connor Cook
2a. Paxton Lynch
2b. Jared Goff
4. Christian Hackenberg
5. Carson Wentz
6. Kevin HoganThis is the 3rd year I have been hyping Cook and Hogan, so maybe I have my blinders firmly in place. And living in ND and Wentz going to NDSU is maybe a little homerish.
As far as highest ceiling:
Lynch and Hackenberg. Lynch has not played ultra tough competition, nor does he have NFL quality around him. Hackenberg was the top QB coming out of HS and looked good his frosh year, then he had no one around him and he has looked not good. But his talent is still there.
1 or both may go back to college. Hackenberg more likely to go back then Lynch.
Most mobile:
as far as those 6, its Hogan, then Lynch.
Best arm: Hackenberg
Highest Floor: Cook, pro style offense, a senior and top level competition.
I think Lynch goes first (not overall, just as far as QBs go), then Goff, then Cook and then the rest in the 2nd-3rd rounds.
I don’t like comparisons, but I will do it here:
Lynch – Rothlisberger. Both big kids. Lynch is 6′-7″ 240. Both are a lot more athletic then you would think, both came from smaller FBS colleges. The one thing about Lynch is that he has not played against 1 draftable CB all year.
Goff – Matt Ryan other then different systems. An accurate, pocket passer. I have seen him make a read (at least it looked like it in slow mo playback) he will stand in the pocket and take a hit. He just seemed like he was pushing too hard in the middle of the season, and he kinda had to because he had no one around him. But he made some bad decisions. He can move around in the pocket.
Connor Cook – Carson Palmer (not quite the arm) Chad Pennington maybe. High floor, lower ceiling. Mobile, tough, came from a pro style offense in a tough conference. Accuracy is his bugaboo, but this year its better. Not afraid to make the tough throw. Nothing that WOWs you, but he wins.
Christian Hackenberg – A poor man’s Andrew Luck maybe Phillip Rivers or a less jerky Cutler? So much arm talent, can move in the pocket, but has issues with throwing the underneath stuff and his mechanics are a mess right now. 1 year behind another QB with a good QB coach would do him wonders.
Carson Wentz – Another Big Ben comp. – Can make all the throws, can and will scramble and lowers his shoulder to finish off a run. A leader withprototypical size. His issue is level of competition. FBS. He is out until the senior bowl with a small bone fracture in his throwing wrist. He played the whole USD game with it. He’s tough.
Kevin Hogan – compares to Phillip Rivers in every way. Funky elongated delivery that makes me want to kick bunnies. Plenty of arm strength, accurate and can scramble more then Rivers ever could. And a pro style offense.
znModeratorRams could hop aboard QB carousel in ’16
Jim Thomas
In a few months this may be Los Angeles’ problem. But as the 2015 Rams season winds down — or should we say, unravels — it’s looking more and more like quarterback will be a top offseason priority.
Beginning with Sunday’s game against Arizona, that gives Nick Foles and Case Keenum five games to make an impression.
The person with the most to gain seemingly would be Keenum, whose contract expires after this season. It’s obvious that coach Jeff Fisher likes Keenum, or why trade for him last March — and as things turned out, basically hand him the No. 2 job over Austin Davis right then and there?
Fisher made it clear two weeks ago when benching Foles after the Chicago game that Keenum would not have a short leash. In re-iterating Monday that a healthy Keenum would be his starter this week against Arizona, it’s clear that Fisher wants to get more of a look.
“He’s really disappointed that he didn’t get to play last week,” Fisher said. “I don’t buy into the philosophy where someone’s going to lose their job because they got hurt.
“Unfortunately, Case had the set of circumstances at the end of the Baltimore game that prevented him from playing last week. Hopefully, he’s going to be back this week and he’ll play. I’m going to give Case a fair shot.”
After a players’ day off Tuesday, Fisher expects Keenum to be back on the practice field in some capacity Wednesday as he attempts to clear the NFL concussion protocol.
And what of Foles? He had a chance against Cincinnati to remind everyone why the Rams traded for him last March, starting in place of the concussed Keenum. Instead, he threw three interceptions, one of which was returned for a touchdown and another that killed a potential Rams scoring drive.
In matter-of-fact fashion, Fisher broke down the three INTs, mistakes you just can’t have under any circumstances, much less with an offense struggling mightily to score points.
“First (interception) was a little late,” Fisher said. “Reggie (Nelson) did a great job … read his eyes and just took off and pushed, and the ball was deflected.”
The Rams had a first down at the Cincinnati 23 with 44 seconds left in the first half when Foles threw that interception to Nelson on a ball tipped by fellow Bengals safety George Iloka. The pass was intended for tight end Jared Cook over the middle.
Foles’ second interception, made by veteran cornerback Leon Hall, was returned 19 yards for a victory-sealing touchdown with 5½ minutes to play in the third quarter. The ball was intended for Bradley Marquez, but as Fisher said, never should have been thrown.
“He was trying to make a play,” Fisher said. “He was scrambling around. He should not have thrown that ball. Throw the ball in the ground. Get what you can, get down, and punt the ball away.”
With the game’s outcome well-decided, Foles’ third interception took place in Cincinnati territory early in the fourth quarter on a play in which wide receiver Kenny Britt got open on a double-move.
“(Foles) was a little bit late,” Fisher said. “It sailed inside, and the safety made a great play on the ball.”
That gave Foles nine interceptions on the season, compared with only seven touchdowns.
“He’s a confident player,” Fisher insisted. “He’s confident. Those things are not unsettling to him. He comes back.”
But if Keenum returns and plays well, Foles might not see the field again this season. If that’s the case, the Rams must decide if Foles is salvageable for 2016. If the team decides to part ways with him, it would be costly.
A $6 million roster bonus payable on the third day of the 2016 league year (in March) became guaranteed when Foles was on the roster this past Aug. 15. In addition, there is $2 million of unamortized signing bonus money that would count against the 2016 cap if Foles were released. Counter-balancing that would be a relatively modest $1.75 million in base salary saved if he were released.
Last but not least is rookie Sean Mannion, the third-round draft pick out of Oregon State. He is just starting out on what was a four-year, $3.25 million contract coming out of college. So he’s going nowhere.
Based on the subpar play of Foles and Keenum so far, the outcry has risen among Rams fans and many media observers to play Mannion. Fisher tried to explain Monday why that’s probably not the best idea at this point.
“He’s been in the meetings with the quarterbacks every day since the draft,” Fisher said. “He got reps during camp. He got to play in preseason games. (But) once you get in the regular season your (No.) 1 and (No.) 2’s are getting the reps. It’s hard to get your (No.) 3 reps.”
The starting quarterback gets almost all of the practice repetitions with the first-team offense. The top backup gets most of the reps running the scout team offense against the Rams’ first-team defense. That leaves only a few crumbs for the third-stringer.
Long story short, Mannion isn’t ready to make a legitimate run at the starting job — at least not yet. But the Rams wouldn’t have drafted him in the third round if they didn’t think he had starter’s potential.
“That’s correct, yeah,” Fisher said. “Not many teams have drafted a quarterback in the third round and started him as rookie, either. It takes time.”
If the Rams chose not to re-sign Keenum and decided to bite the salary cap bullet on Foles, Mannion could be competing against some fresh faces in training camp.
In the draft, Michigan State’s Connor Cook, Memphis’ Paxton Lynch and California’s Jared Goff probably are the top three quarterback prospects at this point. That’s assuming Lynch and Goff, both juniors, turn pro.
As for free agency? Well, there’s this guy named Bradford whose contract is scheduled to expire after this season in Philadelphia.
December 2, 2015 at 6:45 am in reply to: at least Tavon is stepping up (including all 22 analysis of the long run) #35006znModeratorAll 22: Austin’s 60-Yard Run
Insider Myles Simmons breaks down wide receiver Tavon Austin’s 60-yard run against the Bengals.
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This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by
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