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December 7, 2015 at 11:30 am in reply to: judging Fisher (Peter King, Wagoner, Miklasz, etc.) #35226
znModeratorStay or Go, the Rams Can’t Afford to Keep Jeff Fisher
Bernie Miklasz
http://www.101sports.com/2015/12/06/stay-go-rams-cant-afford-keep-jeff-fisher/
Question for the gallery: is there a reason — whatsoever — to bring Jeff Fisher back as the Rams’ head coach in 2016?
jeff fisher-5With a $7 million salary, Fisher is the NFL’s fourth highest-paid coach.
If the decision is solely based on results, the answer is a clear-cut “no.”
Hold on.
Make that …
“Hell, no.”
There’s no legitimate reason for staying the course with Fisher beyond the end of this season. If you can give me a reason to reassess that opinion, then please enlighten me. I try to be fair. Really, I do.
I supported Fisher’s hiring in 2012, and I offer no backdated apologies for that endorsement.
I believed Fisher was a good fit at the time. The Rams needed to bring in an experienced head coach that had led his previous team (Tennessee) to a commendable if incomplete level of success.
In 2012 the Rams couldn’t afford to gamble on another inexperienced and overwhelmed rookie HC. Previous Rams regimes tried to go young and fresh with Scott Linehan and Steve Spagnuolo, only to fail miserably.
I was well aware of Fisher’s tendency to win and then gravitate back to .500 or lower.
But let’s have some context, shall we?
Fisher inherited a Rams’ dumpster fire of a roster, taking control of a team that had careened to the worst five-season record (15-65) in NFL history. And when the NFL team in your town has lost 65 out of 80 games, an upturn to .500 didn’t seem so bad. And Fisher had supervised two solid rebuilding projects at Tennessee.
Between 1999 and 2003, five seasons, Fisher’s Titans were tied with the Rams for the most wins (56) and best winning percentage (.700) in the NFL. In addition to capturing an AFC Championship, the Titans were tied for second in the NFL with five postseason wins during those five seasons.
After going through a necessary roster purge due to a salary-cap detonation, Fisher pulled Tennessee back into the playoffs for two consecutive seasons, 2007 and 2008. Only New England (27) and Indianapolis (25) had more wins than the Titans (23) during the two years.
Fisher’s overall record before 2012 wasn’t shiny overall — but it had merit.
During his first 14 full seasons as an NFL head coach Fisher basically had one of the best teams in the league in seven of the 14 years, and his 14-season winning percentage between 1995 and 2008 was .567, tied for No. 6 in the NFL.
No, Fisher never won a Super Bowl, but only five teams had a better winning percentage than the Titans over those 14 seasons. Fisher had more success in his background than he was generally given credit for.
Put it this way: with all of the hideous football we’ve endured over the last 12 seasons here in St. Louis, I don’t think we’d object to having the league’s sixth-best record over the last dozen campaigns or so.
Instead, since their last winning season in 2003, the Rams are 61-126-1, ranking 30th among 32 teams with a .327 win percentage.
And if Fisher could pull off two good rebuilds while working for a wacky owner at Tennessee, there was a legitimate reason to believe he could do the same here.
Nearly four full seasons into Fisher’s term in Earth City, it isn’t working out.
The measured optimism of Fisher’s first two seasons in St. Louis has given way to full-blown pessimism.
I’ve lost confidence in Fisher.
Given the Rams’ pathetic 15-65 mark between 2007 and 2011, I felt pretty good about Fisher’s 14-17-1 record in his first two STL seasons. But then the Rams took a step back in 2014, sliding to 6-10. My patience was thin, and I declined to accept Fisher’s attempt to put a positive spin on 6-10.
Still the Rams were seemingly trending in a positive direction earlier this season, battling to a 4-3 record through the first seven games. That was no small gain in these parts; the Rams hadn’t been 4-3 after seven games since 2006.
Like many of you, I’m just tired of Fisher’s teases. The Rams put together some wins, raise hopes, and then go into another absurd free fall that worsens the understandable fan apathy. I’m tired of buying into a sequence of on-the-verge breakthroughs that become anger-causing breakdowns. Enough of this. Really. Enough.
Sixty games into their regime at Rams Park, Fisher and GM Les Snead are 24-35-1. The Rams were at the depressing, desolate bottom of the NFL when Fisher arrived. And while they’re no longer the league’s worst team, Fisher’s winning percentage as Rams coach (.408) ranks 26th in the league. For a coach that’s deep into his fourth season on the job, that’s simply unacceptable.
This is a league of quick turnarounds.
In 2011, the year before Fisher’s appointment in St. Louis, 18 NFL teams (excluding the Rams) were .500 or worse.
Of those 18 teams, 12 have made the playoffs at least once.
We’ve seen some terrific, rapid-fix coaching performances in recent NFL seasons including three inside the Rams’ division, the NFC West.
Here are a few examples:
Seattle went 9-23 in the two seasons before Pete Carroll was hired as coach in 2010. Carroll has led the Seahawks to a record of 57-35 with two NFC Championships and a Super Bowl title.
The boisterous Bruce Arians was hired by Arizona in 2013 — a year after Fisher set up at Rams Park. Between 2010 and 2012, the Cardinals went 18-30. Under Arians, they’re 31-13 (.705) and just clinched their third consecutive season of double-digit win totals. Arizona is tied for the NFL’s fourth-best record under Arians. And again: Fisher had a one-year head start on Arians. And Snead had a one-year jump on Arizona GM Steve Keim. To put it bluntly: Arians and Keim really make Fisher and Snead look inadequate.
Though he ultimately fell victim to stupid front-office politics, let’s remember the exceptional work done by Jim Harbaugh did at San Francisco. Between 2003 and 2010, the 49ers were an abysmal 46-82. Harbaugh was hired in 2011, and over the next four seasons he transformed the ‘Niners into an NFC powerhouse. Harbaugh had a .698 winning percentage, made the playoffs three times, and won the NFC Championship in 2012.
Ron Rivera was brought in as the coach of the rebuilding Carolina Panthers in 2011. Rivera’s teams won 13 and lost 22 in his first two seasons; since then they’re 31-12. Sunday the Panthers rallied for a comeback win at New Orleans for their 16th consecutive regular-season victory.
The Kansas City Chiefs were 9-23 in two seasons before Andy Reid moved over from Philadelphia in 2013. The Chiefs have been inconsistent, but Reid is 27-17 as their coach.
The controversial Chip Kelly catches a lot of static in Philadelphia. But the Eagles went 12-20 in the two seasons preceding Kelly’s hiring in 2013, and he opened his stay in Philly with consecutive 10-win seasons and is 25-19 overall. Kelly is only 5-7 this year but has a chance to win the weak NFC East.
The Minnesota Vikings are 15-13 under second-year head coach Mike Zimmer. That seems rather ordinary — but looks a lot better when you realize that the Vikes were 24-39 in their previous four seasons.
Former Chicago Bears coach Lovie Smith was given custody of a horrendous Tampa Bay franchise in 2014, and opened with a 2-14 record. But in his second season the Buccaneers have heated up, currently sitting at 6-6 after winning five of their last eight.In St. Louis, Fisher hasn’t stopped the bleeding that began last season.
— After putting up a hopeful 14-17-1 record (.435) in his first two seasons, Fisher is 10-18 since the start of last year.
— With Sunday’s humiliating 27-3 loss to Arians and the Cardinals, the Rams have only four wins in their last 15 regular-season games. (On a side note: what the heck was Arians up to with his physical, bear-hugging grip on Fisher after the game? We appreciated the comic relief, Bruce.)
— Since Dec. 11 of last season, only Cleveland (two) and Tennessee (three) have fewer wins than the Rams’ four over this 15-game period. The Rams have been outscored by 98 points during this 4-11 regression.
— The Rams’ current five-game losing streak is the longest by the franchise since that 2011 wreck of a team closed the season with seven consecutive losses.
— During the skid that wiped out the Rams’ 4-3 start, they’ve suffered three 24-point blowout losses and have been outscored 132 to 54.
— Since taking a 13-3 lead into the fourth quarter at Baltimore on Nov. 22, the Rams have been outscored 71-10.
— In their five straight defeats, the Rams have scored 10.4 points per game.
— The St. Louis defense is in a state of collapse, having been plundered for an average of 25 points during the five-game sinking. This tired defense gave up an average of only 15.4 offensive points through the first seven games.
In other words: the Rams have ceased being competitive.
Fisher and Snead can’t put the blame on anyone else.
This is their team.
They’ve had four drafts and just as many free-agent shopping windows to build a winner. Instead of improving, the Rams have fallen apart. That isn’t supposed to happen in a league where coaches frequently pull off a team turnaround in short time.
Dick Vermeil took over a drifting, directionless Rams franchise in 1997 and spent two hard seasons changing the Rams’ diseased culture and working with Charley Armey and John Shaw to upgrade the Rams roster. Between 1990 and 1998, nine seasons, the Rams had the league’s next-to-worst winning percentage at .313. And it Vermeil struggled in his first two seasons, 1997 and ’98, losing 23 of 32 games. But in this third season Vermeil led the Rams to a 13-3 record and a victory in Super Bowl 34.
In the modern NFL it should take only three years — tops — to refurbish a loser and make it a winner.
Fisher and Snead have drafted 38 players in four years — a crop that should have gotten a major boost from the 2012 pre-draft trade with Washington, which coveted the No. 2 overall pick to select Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III.
That deal gave the Rams a bundle of premium draft picks, but the Fisher and Snead didn’t come close to maximizing the potential windfall.
Because of that the Rams are experiencing the severe repercussions of taking so many underwhelming or failed draft picks.
That’s especially true with their impotent offense, which is tied with San Francisco for the fewest points in the league this season — with a putrid average of 14.4 offensive points per game.
The Rams used 12 of the 37 picks on so-called “skill position” players: quarterbacks (two), running backs (five) and wide receivers (five.) Only five of the 12 players are still on the roster. And only two — running back Todd Gurley and wide receiver Tavon Austin — can be categorized as impact talent. But that’s even a stretch considering Austin’s inconsistency and Gurley’s dramatic drop in production.
Not that Gurley is at fault; the Rams are wasting him. After a dramatic first four starts to his NFL career, Gurley has averaged only 52 yards rushing during this five-game wrong turn into another dead end.
Remarkably, the coaches have given Gurley only 18 carries (combined) over the last two games.
How can that be? That’s inexcusable.
Gurley is their best player.
So even when the Rams draft a gem such as Gurley, they can’t take full advantage of his talent. It’s sad.
The foundation for Fisher’s coaching rep as formed by defense and a power-running offense. Four years into the program the Rams’ defense has been solid and often outstanding, ranking (in order) 16th, 13th, 5th and 9th in offensive points allowed. But the bullying rushing attack hasn’t surfaced regularly enough; over Fisher’s 60 games the Rams rank 17th in ground yards per game.
Snead and Fisher have also chosen 10 offensive linemen, including eight during the last two drafts. Left tackle Greg Robinson, selected No. 2 overall in 2014, is rated among the NFL’s worst offensive tackles this season by Pro Football Focus. Going into the Arizona game Robinson had given up more QB hits than any NFL offensive tackle in 2015 according to PFF. And Robinson has committed the most holding penalties in the league this year. While it’s too soon to judge the Rams’ 2015 O-line rookies as a group, only one, right tackle Rob Havenstein, is rated as high as “average” according to the Pro Football Focus player grades.
Fisher and Snead also traded for their hand-picked quarterback, Nick Foles, last offseason. Not only that, Fisher-Snead gave Foles a contract extension (with $14 million guaranteed) before he took a snap in a regular-season game. Foles is having a brutal season, ranking 30th among 31 qualifying NFL quarterbacks with a passer rating of 69.0. That 69 passer rating would be the second worst in a season by a Rams’ starting quarterback since the team moved here in 1995. (In case you’re wondering, Tony Banks had a 68.6 passer rating in 1998.) Foles will be benched, again, for Case Keenum when the Rams host the Detroit Lions on Sunday. Plenty of good seats remain.
With all of the swings and misses on draft picks and other personnel decisions — all of that money to tight end Jared Cook to name one — should we really be surprised to see the Fisher-Snead offense degenerate into the league’s sorriest unit in 2015?
“It’s kind of a broken record thing here with the offense,” Fisher said after Sunday’s smackdown by Arizona. “We have to get the offense fixed.”
Coach: you’ve been saying that for four seasons.
The Rams have yet to field an average offense — in terms of points scored– since you took over in 2012.
In Fisher’s four seasons the Rams’ offense has scored 108 touchdowns from scrimmage. That ranks 30th, above only Cleveland (107) and Jacksonville.
How many years does Fisher need to fix the offense? Six? Eight? Ten?
It’s quite possible that he’ll never fix it.
Fisher hasn’t had an offense ranked better better than 12th in the NFL in offensive points scored since 2003.
Fisher’s offense (Titans, then Rams) has scored at the average level for playoff teams only three times in his 19 seasons … and only once during the last 15 seasons.
Coach, you can’t find a winning quarterback, can’t build a powerful offensive line, can’t draft or cultivate a true No. 1 receiver, can’t even take advantage of Gurley.
And when you had the chance to remix the offense in a meaningful way by bringing in an experienced and creative offensive coordinator, your search was contained within the walls of Rams Park. You simply elevated quarterbacks coach Frank Cignetti.
That move was just another indication of the stubbornness and staleness that’s left this team with such a sickly offense.
Fisher’s arrow is definitely pointing down.
This is Fisher’s 20th full season as an NFL head coach, and he’s had only six winning records.
That includes only two winning records in his last 11 seasons — and none since 2008.
Remember how I told you about Fisher’s .567 winning percentage in his first 14 seasons?
Well, since the beginning of the 2009 season — and remember, he sat out the 2011 season — Fisher has coached 92 games with the Titans and Rams and has a six-season winning percentage of .418.
My friend and colleague Randy Karraker recently came up with this factoid: Since the 1970 AFL-NFL merger, only one new coaching hire has been brought back for a fifth year after having four consecutive losing seasons. That was Cincinnati’s David Shula who somehow survived a four-season 18-46 record between 1992 and 1995. The Bengals finally gave Shula the boot after he went 1-6 at the start of his fifth season, in 1996.
ESPN’s Nick Wagoner added this piece of historical perspective: According to Elias Sports Bureau, there have been only three coaches that had at least five consecutive full losing seasons with one team: Philadelphia’s Bert Bell (1936-41), Dallas’ Tom Landry (1960-64) and Washington’s Bill McPeak (1961-65).
Will Fisher receive a fifth year?
The Rams’ extreme deterioration — especially on offense — should eliminate that possibility.
There’s no case to be made for keeping Fisher.
I can think of only two reasons why he’d stick:
One, Rams owner Stan Kroenke will be cheap. Fisher is due $7 million to coach in 2015, and Kroenke may not want to pay the coach $7 million to spend 2016 fishing in Montana. But that’s no excuse; according to the “up to the minute” Forbes 400 rankings of the wealthiest Americans, Kroenke is worth $7.7 billion. Money should be no object in the pursuit of turning the Rams into a winner.
Second, Kroenke may want to keep Fisher in place just in case the Rams get the NFL’s permission to move to Los Angeles for 2016. These franchise relocations are chaotic and disruptive, and it can only help to have a coach that’s been through it before. Fisher was coaching the Houston Oilers when they moved to Tennessee. But that would be a bogus reason. As we sit here today (things could change) I don’t believe the Rams will be moving.
And if the Rams stay, Kroenke must begin to repair the considerable damage that’s been done to the franchise. How can Kroenke relaunch the product for a happier, more successful existence in 2016 by bringing Fisher back? That alone would put a drag on ticket sales. And Rams fans deserve Kroenke’s best effort in pulling the team out its 12-season malaise. Even if Kroenke is allowed to take the Rams to Southern California, the football fans of Los Angeles should have a new start that comes with a new coach.
Kroenke tried to do the right thing when he spent a lot of money in hiring Fisher in 2012. It was a sensible move at the time, and Kroenke can’t be accused of skimping on the coach’s salary. But surely by now the NFL’s second-richest owner — an one of the smartest businessmen in the world — recognizes the futility of staying too long with a losing investment.
According to a 2007 account in the Denver Post, one of Kroenke first decisions as owner of the prestigious Screaming Eagle vineyard was to dump $3.3 million of Napa Valley cabernet sauvignon because it wasn’t up to standard.
Kroenke appears to have lower standards with his NFL team.
If Kroenke has developed an acquired taste for losing football, then Fisher will stay.
znModeratorThis Rams team has quit on Jeff Fisher.
Regardless of any other point you make…I don’t see that at all.
We have seen what it looks like when a team quits on a coach (Linehan) and that’s not what we are seeing here.
.
December 7, 2015 at 9:36 am in reply to: the way Foles is right now they have a better chance with Keenum #35220
znModeratorHe doesn’t even look like the same guy ,he looks like he has significant brain damage and I am serious. I fear for his health.
Interesting.
znModeratorbump
my greedy self wants to hear more
somehow good posts make up for bad games
December 7, 2015 at 1:19 am in reply to: the way Foles is right now they have a better chance with Keenum #35216
znModeratorJeff Fisher says QB Case Keenum will start next Sunday
Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14306548/st-louis-rams-qb-case-keenum-starter-detroit-lions
ST. LOUIS — Rams coach Jeff Fisher left no doubt about whom his starting quarterback will be next Sunday when the Rams play the Detroit Lions.
Immediately after Sunday’s 27-3 loss to the Arizona Cardinals, Fisher declared that Case Keenum will return to the starting role he had before suffering a concussion late in the team’s loss to Baltimore on Nov. 22. Nick Foles started the past two weeks as Keenum worked through the NFL’s concussion protocol.
“We’ll go ahead this coming week, and Case will be our starter,” Fisher said. “I’m not blaming this on Nick, but I don’t have the philosophy where a player is going to lose his job because of injury. Case did not get reps on Wednesday and Thursday, so that’s the reason he did not start [Sunday]. So he’ll be our starter next week.”
Fisher had maintained that stance all along but wasn’t able to go back to Keenum this week or last against Cincinnati because Keenum had been unable to clear the final tests to play. Keenum was limited in practice each of the past two weeks and worked with the scout team last week. According to Fisher, Keenum felt good enough Saturday to clear the concussion protocol and serve as Foles’ backup against the Cardinals.
“He was good enough to be the 2; he just didn’t have the reps,” Fisher said. “So we had Case at the 2 because of the understanding and experience.
“So Case will go back, and he’ll be the starter.”
Foles struggled against Arizona on Sunday, going 15-of-35 for 146 yards with no touchdowns and an interception for a passer rating of 43.3. Asked after the game if he was OK with returning to the bench, Foles said he’d prefer to play but understands the decision.
“I respect Coach Fisher and I love Case Keenum,” Foles said. “I want to be out there. But at the same time, I respect Coach Fisher and I’m going to do everything I can to help Case along and help him succeed out there and help this team succeed.
“So whatever I can do to help Case with, I’m going to do, just like he’s always done for me because I think he’s a heck of a player and I know he’s a heck of a person and a great leader.”
Rookie Sean Mannion returned to his role at the Rams’ No. 3 quarterback on Sunday after working mop-up duty for Foles against the Bengals last week. Fisher indicated that Mannion might get a chance before the season is over but he preferred to have Keenum as Foles’ backup against Arizona.
“That’s doesn’t mean necessarily that Sean isn’t going to get an opportunity to play here down the stretch but I’d rather have Case as the two,” Fisher said.
December 7, 2015 at 1:18 am in reply to: reporters can't help but look at the ARIZONA game as they drive by #35215
znModeratorFamiliar woes bring familiar result for overmatched Rams
Jim Thomas
It’s now official. The Rams have reached the broken-record stage of the 2015 season. The offense can’t score. The team can’t win. Repeat this cycle once per week.
And this just in: The coach has run out of answers.
Last week, the answer was: “Kiss my (bleep).” To anyone questioning the team’s effort, that is.
This week? After Sunday’s 27-3 loss to Arizona, Jeff Fisher was almost at a loss for words. For weeks, reporters have asked him about what’s gone wrong — to the point where there’s almost no way left to ask the same old questions about the same old Rams.
The feeling is mutual, apparently.
“Coach is almost out of answers,” Fisher said with an air of exasperation. “My responsibility is to say, ‘Hey, I’m gonna get this thing fixed.’ I mean, we’re not efficient on offense.”
The way Fisher sees it, the Rams have too many good players on offense for that to be the case.
“We’ve got guys that can produce,” Fisher said. “We have an outstanding running back and we have a dynamic receiver. We’re starting to get a little bit better on the offensive line, and so we’ll keep working. But it has to get better. It’s not good.”
Actually, it’s much worse than “not good.” It’s awful. As awful as anything the Rams put on the field offensively under Fisher predecessors Steve Spagnuolo and Scott Linehan.
The Rams lost their fifth in a row Sunday, scoring a season-low three points and gaining a season-low 212 yards. They have been outscored 58-10 over the last two Sundays and have lost by margins of 24 points in three of the past four games.
For those scoring at home, the latest loss puts the Rams at 4-8 for the season, and guaranteed to have their 12th consecutive non-winning season. The 2004 and 2006 teams both finished 8-8 — everything else has been below .500 since the 2003 squad won the NFC West title.
The official mood of the Rams’ postgame locker room Sunday? Numb, bordering on shell-shocked.
“We’ve just gotta pick our heads up,” defensive back Lamarcus Joyner said. “We’re grown men. It’s a job for us. We get paid to do what we’re doing. … We gotta go out there and win the next game next Sunday.”
No matter how you measured it, the Cardinals (10-2) ran roughshod over the Rams with 524 yards total offense, 29 first downs and 175 yards rushing against a once-formidable St. Louis defense.
The Rams were also non-competitive on the other side of the ball. They have failed to score more than 18 points in any of their eight losses.
“It’s not good,” quarterback Nick Foles said. “It’s not good.”
Foles had another poor day at the office, completing a mere 42.9 percent of his passes (15 for 35) for 146 yards and a 43.3 passer rating. He threw his fourth interception in two games in the opening quarter on an overthrown pass intended for Kenny Britt.
Fisher announced after the game that Case Keenum would be his starter next week against Detroit. Keenum cleared the concussion protocol Saturday and dressed as the team’s No. 2 quarterback against the Cardinals.
“I want to be out there,” Foles said. “But at the same time, I respect Coach Fisher and I’m going to do everything I can to help Case along and help him succeed out there, and help this team succeed.”
Foles isn’t playing with much confidence these days. Then again, he got next to no help from his receivers against the Big Red. Several catchable balls eluded tight end Jared Cook, as well as Britt and Brian Quick.
Running back Todd Gurley managed a 34-yard run in the third quarter, his first gain of more than 9 yards in a month. But he otherwise found the going tough, finishing with nine carries for 41 yards.
“We have to stay positive,” Gurley said. “At the end of the day, things could be a lot worse. We’ve still got a job, and it’s the game we love. At the end of the day, whether we’re in the playoffs or not, we do this for living. We love this game, so we’re gonna keep going.”
The Rams certainly aren’t going to the playoffs this year. And if this nose-dive continues, there may be more than a couple of players out of a job at the end of the season, not to mention Fisher and his staff.
“Coach Fisher has had our back,” defensive end Chris Long said. “We’ve got Coach Fisher’s back. He’s a heck of a football coach. At the end of the day, we have to make plays on the field.
“We’re far too often in position to make plays and we don’t make plays. We don’t do the little things. Just do your job. It’s not necessarily about Coach, it’s about doing your job. And it takes 11 guys to do that. We’re playing way too often where one or two guys aren’t doing that.”
Even though it was giving up lots of yardage to Arizona’s top-ranked offense, the Rams’ defense found a way to keep the game close for more than 3½ quarters. After a Zach Hocker field goal 3½ minutes into the second half, the Rams trailed by only 10-3.
(Hocker once again was replacing an injured Greg Zuerlein.)
When Kerwynn Williams fumbled out of bounds on the ensuing kickoff, the Cardinals took over on their 2. For just a moment, it looked like the Rams had a flicker of a chance to make this a wire-to-wire game.
But on third-and-3 from the Arizona 9, Big Red wide receiver Michael Floyd outleaped Janoris Jenkins on a 50-50 ball for a 31-yard gain down the right sideline. It was the kind of aggressive, contested catch that Rams receivers rarely make. At least not this year.
What became a 98-yard drive culminated in a 10-yard pass from Carson Palmer to rookie running back David Johnson. That was the back-breaker, giving Arizona a 17-3 lead with 5:53 to play in third. The way the Rams were malfunctioning on offense, it might as well have been 170-3.
“We have to get the offense fixed,” Fisher said for the umpteenth time. “Three first downs at halftime, I think we had six to start the fourth quarter. It doesn’t give yourself the chance to be productive or win games.”
No it doesn’t. But we’ve heard that over and over again
December 7, 2015 at 12:57 am in reply to: reporters can't help but look at the ARIZONA game as they drive by #35214
znModeratorBig Red run roughshod over Rams
Jim Thomas
For those scoring at home, Sunday’s 27-3 loss to Arizona was a “clincher” for the St. Louis Rams.
After their fifth consecutive loss, the Rams sit at 4-8 and are now guaranteed their 12th consecutive non-winning season. Yes, as the late great announcer Jack Buck would say, that’s a dozen cousin.
Even if they sweep their final four contests — and who in their right minds expects that to take place? — the best they can do is 8-8 this season.
The Rams finished the regular season 8-8 in both 2004 and 2006 — and that’s the high-water mark since the 2003 squad won the NFC West title with the remnants of the Greatest Show on Turf.
No matter which way you measured it Sunday, the Cardinals (10-2) ran roughshod over the Rams with 524 yards total offense, 29 first downs, and 175 yards rushing against the once-formidable St. Louis defense.
The Rams were also non-competitive on the other side of the ball. They finished with only 212 yards of total offense; Arizona had more than that by halftime. The Rams had only three first downs at halftime, and have failed to score more than 18 points in any of their eight losses. Sunday’s offensive harvest was a measly three points, on a Zach Hocker field goal in place of the injured Greg Zuerlein.
“It’s not good,” quarterback Nick Foles said. “It’s not good.”
Foles had another poor day at the office, completing a mere 42.9 percent of his passes (15 of 35) for 146 yards and a passer rating of 43.3. He threw his fourth interception in five quarters in the opening quarter at the Edward Jones Dome on an overthrown pass intended for Kenny Britt.
Coach Jeff Fisher announced after the game that Case Keenum would be his starter next week against Detroit. Keenum cleared the concussion protocol on Saturday and dressed as the team’s No. 2 quarterback against the Cardinals.
“I want to be out there,” Foles said. “But at the same time, I respect Coach Fisher and I’m going to do everything I can to help Case along and help him succeed out there and help this team succeed.”
Foles doesn’t appear to be playing with much confidence these days. In fairness, he got next to no help from his receivers against the Big Red. Several catchable passes somehow eluded tight end Jared Cook, as well as Britt and Brian Quick.
Running back Todd Gurley managed a 34-yard run in the third quarter, his first gain of more than nine yards in a month. But he otherwise found the going tough, finishing with nine carries for 41 yards.
“We have to stay positive,” Gurley said. “At the end of the day, things could be a lot worse. We’ve still got a job, and it’s the game we love. At the end of the day, whether we’re in the playoffs or not, we do this for living. We love this game, so we’re gonna keep going.”
The Rams certainly aren’t going to the playoffs this year. And if this nosedive continues, there may be more than a couple of players out of a job at the end of the year, not to mention Fisher and his staff.
“We have to get the offense fixed,” Fisher said for the umpteenth time. “Three first downs at halftime, I think we had six to start the fourth quarter. It doesn’t give yourself the chance to be productive or win games.
“Defensively, we’re on the field way too much. Way too much. Again, that kind of offense, they’re going to score points.”
Even though it was giving up lots of yardage to Arizona’s top-ranked offense, the Rams’ defense found a way to keep the game close for more than 3½ quarters.
Arizona marched 80 yards for a touchdown on its opening drive, capped by a 22-yard pass from Carson Palmer to J.J. Nelson. The Big Red then tacked on a Chandler Catanzaro field goal just before the half to take a 10-0 lead into intermission.
A long punt return by Tavon Austin, albeit one that was more than cut in half by a holding penalty, followed by Gurley’s 34-yard run. That led to the Hocker field goal with 11 1/2 minutes to play in the third.
As the third quarter wound down, the Rams were still in the contest, trailing 10-3. After Kerwynn Williams fumbled out of bounds on the ensuing kickoff, the Cardinals took over on their 2. For just a moment, it looked like the Rams had a flicker of a chance to make this a wire-to-wire game.
But on third-and-3 from the Arizona 9, Big Red wide receiver Michael Floyd outleaped Janoris Jenkins on a 50-50 ball for a 31-yard gain down the right sideline. It was the kind of aggressive, contested catch that has been few and far between for Rams receivers this year.
On the next play, rookie David Johnson gained 23 yards, and just like that the Cardinals were in St. Louis territory at the 37. Johnson, making his first NFL start, scored a few plays later on a 10-yard reception from Palmer. On the play, Jenkins went for the interception, and missed, allowing Johnson to reach the end zone.
Williams, who was on the Arizona practice squad a week ago, scored late in the third quarter on a 35-yard run. Catanzaro added a fourth-quarter field goal, and that was that.
The Rams have been outscored 58-10 their last two Sundays, and simply do not look like a competitive football team.
“It hurts the same for everybody,” said defensive end Chris Long, who is in the midst of his eighth consecutive losing season as a Ram. “That’s losing in embarrassing fashion five games in a row. The guys in here are not happy, I can guarantee that. That doesn’t make it OK. That doesn’t make it OK at all.”
December 7, 2015 at 12:57 am in reply to: reporters can't help but look at the ARIZONA game as they drive by #35213
znModeratorRams’ upset recipe nowhere to be found in latest loss to Cardinals
Nick Wagoner
ST. LOUIS — In better days, the St. Louis Rams upset the Arizona Cardinals behind rookie running back Todd Gurley’s breakthrough performance, a stingy defense that almost exclusively yielded field goals and a dominant performance in the turnover battle.
In Sunday’s rematch at the Edward Jones Dome, none of those things were present, so the result was unsurprising: a 27-3 loss. For the Rams, it’s their fifth consecutive defeat and their first loss to an NFC West opponent this season.
Yes, Sunday’s game played out as so many have this season, with the Rams’ offense flailing around with no signs of improvement to be found and the defense doing what it can to keep them in the game before capitulating. But the Rams pinned their hopes on the idea that returning to NFC West play would help right the ship.
The only way that would happen, though, would be to follow the same blueprint that led to their 24-22 win against Arizona on Oct. 4. In that game, Gurley ran for 146 yards, the Rams were plus-3 in turnover margin, and they held Arizona to one touchdown. This time, Gurley finished with 41 yards on nine carries, the Rams were minus-1 in turnover margin and the Cardinals tripled their trips to the end zone.
Perhaps lost in the Gurley-mania that followed the game was the fact that the Rams had some fortuitous bounces and calls that went their way. Absent those things, the Rams are the same team they’ve been for more than a month, which isn’t a good thing.
What it means: At 4-8, the Rams have now guaranteed themselves a 12th consecutive season without a winning record, lost five in a row and made their incredibly slim playoff chances even slimmer. For coach Jeff Fisher, it’s four successive non-winning years as coach of the Rams and his sixth straight overall.
Where Fisher stands: Sunday’s loss also means that as Fisher completes his 20th full season as a head coach, he’s guaranteed a 14th year without a record above .500. For frame of reference, the last coach to go four straight years without a winning record and get a fifth year was Fisher with the Titans from 1995-1998. Of coaches with a losing record (meaning no seasons even at .500) in their first four seasons, Cincinnati’s David Shula was the last to get a fifth year in the early-mid-1990s. According to Elias Sports Bureau, there have been three coaches who had at least five straight full losing seasons with one team: Philadelphia’s Bert Bell (1936-41), Dallas’ Tom Landry (1960-64) and Washington’s Bill McPeak (1961-65). Fisher also drew within one loss of Dolphins coach Don Shula for the third most losses by a head coach in NFL history at 155. Fisher has been a head coach for a little more than 20 ½ seasons. Shula coached 33 years.
Fantasy watch: There’s not much in the way of fantasy value to be found for the Rams right now as Gurley was mostly bottled up, save for a 34-yard run in the third quarter. The passing game has reached such lows that it’s not worth starting anyone aside from Gurley or perhaps Tavon Austin and hoping they reach the end zone.
Ouch: On the opening drive, Rams cornerback Janoris Jenkins left the game to be tested for a concussion after safety T.J. McDonald whiffed on receiver Michael Floyd and hit Jenkins square. Jenkins was able to return to the game but not until after his replacements allowed a touchdown pass to receiver J.J. Nelson. In the third quarter, Jenkins ran into linebacker Mark Barron and again had to be evaluated for a concussion. This time, he did not return. Tight end Lance Kendricks also left to be evaluated for a concussion and did not return.
What’s next: The Rams host the second game of a three-game homestand next Sunday as the Detroit Lions come to town after their devastating loss on Thursday night.
December 7, 2015 at 12:56 am in reply to: reporters can't help but look at the ARIZONA game as they drive by #35212
znModeratorJohnny Hekker up, Nick Foles, run defense down in Rams’ loss
Nick Wagoner
ST. LOUIS — A look at St. Louis Rams players who were “up” and those who were “down” in Sunday’s 27-3 loss to the Arizona Cardinals.
UP
P Johnny Hekker — Hekker should probably get more credit than he does for his consistent excellence working behind an abysmal Rams offense. But Hekker was in the spotlight even more Sunday because he had to handle kickoff duties with Greg Zuerlein out with a groin injury and Zach Hocker apparently tweaking his leg in pre-game warmups. Hekker punted eight times with an average of 54.5 yards and dropped five of those punts inside the 20. Not many Rams are deserving, but Hekker absolutely belongs back in the Pro Bowl.
DT Aaron Donald — Donald gets a spot here in perpetuity, especially now with so many of his teammates failing to offer much help. But Donald was his usual, disruptive self again in this one. He had seven tackles, a sack and three quarterback hits.
DOWN
QB Nick Foles — Foles started again because Case Keenum hadn’t cleared the concussion protocol earlier in the week, and he was atrocious again, going 15-of-35 for 146 yards with no touchdowns and an interception for a passer rating of 43.3. Not that we should be surprised. Both statistically and from the eye test, the Rams are getting the worst quarterback play in the NFL.
The run defense — It’s hard to put much blame on the defense when the offense is so bad, but the Rams have had issues stopping the run in recent weeks and the Cardinals took advantage even without the services of veteran Chris Johnson. Arizona rookie David Johnson and running mate Kerwynn Williams pounded away to the tune of a combined 158 yards on 28 carries with a 35-yard touchdown from Williams to boot.
The offense — While many of the offensive woes fall at the feet of Foles, everyone should share in the blame, including the coaching staff. The game plan remains dull and the production continues to match it. Before garbage time (the final five minutes), the Rams had just nine first downs, 207 yards and had the ball for more than 17 fewer minutes than the Cardinals
December 7, 2015 at 12:55 am in reply to: reporters can't help but look at the ARIZONA game as they drive by #35211
znModeratorRams Fall to Cardinals, 27-3
Myles Simmons
ST. LOUIS — Once again, St. Louis had a rough day offensively managing only 212 yards and nine first downs en route to a 27-3 loss to division-rival Arizona on Sunday at the Edward Jones Dome.
“It’s kind of a broken-record thing here with the offense,” head coach Jeff Fisher said after the game. “We have to get the offense fixed.”
“There isn’t really too much to say,” wide receiver Tavon Austin said. “Personally, I think the offense hasn’t jelled yet. We have to keep on pushing and get back to practice. There’s not anything else. We practice hard, we come out on Sunday and just can’t put it together right now.”
The game was firmly in Arizona’s hands throughout from both an offensive and defensive standpoint. The Rams had only 82 yards and three first downs in the first half. And four of the Cardinals’ five scoring drives went for at least seven plays and 80 yards.
According to Fisher, part of the issue was the offense not sustaining drives.
“Three first downs at halftime. I think we had six to start the fourth quarter — it doesn’t give yourself the chance to be productive or win games,” Fisher said. “Defensively, [we were] on the field way too much. Way too much. Against that kind of offense, they’re going to score points.”
“We have to worry about what [we] can control and we have to improve,” defensive end Chris Long said. “They ran the ball too much today. Twenty-seven points isn’t going to do it. [We] need to be a lot better.”
Starting in place of Case Keenum, quarterback Nick Foles finished 15-for-35 with 146 yards and an interception. On the other side, quarterback Carson Palmer excelled, throwing for 356 yards and two touchdowns with 8.9 yards per attempt.
Keenum did clear the concussion protocol and was active as the backup quarterback for Sunday’s game. Fisher reiterated Keenum will be the starter next week.
“He was good enough to be a two, he just didn’t have the reps [to start]. That’s all,” Fisher said of Keenum. “I’d rather have Case at the two, because of the understanding and experience, than Sean [Mannion]. That doesn’t mean to say that Sean’s not going to get an opportunity to play down the stretch, but I’d rather have Case as a two. So we’ll go back and he’ll be our starter.”
“I’m going to do everything I can to help Case along and help him succeed out there and help this team succeed,” Foles said. “Whatever I can do to help Case with, I’m going to do, just like he’s always done for me.”
The game got off to an inauspicious start even before kickoff. With Greg Zuerlein already inactive with a right hip injury, his replacement, Zach Hocker, suffered a quad strain during pregame warmups. The result was Fisher going around the locker room and asking members of the team if they had kicked before.
“Fortunately, we didn’t have to get to that point,” Fisher said. “What we did do, however, is we kept [Hocker] warm. We had a real good feel for his distance and such for field goals and extra points. It didn’t make enough sense for him to kickoff.”
Punter Johnny Hekker ended up performing the kickoffs, and Hocker was able to hit a 35-yard field goal for the Rams’ only points. Hekker had an outstanding day punting, too, averaging 54.5 yards on eight attempts with five landing inside the 20. He also tied his career long with a 68-yard punt.
“We’re hard-working guys,” Hekker said. “We have a team full of blue-collar workers and we’re going to continue to grind and do what we can to put our best foot forward come next Sunday.”
The Cardinals got on the board first with a touchdown on the game’s opening drive. With Palmer and running back David Johnson leading the charge, Arizona went 80 yards in 10 plays. The Cardinals capped the drive with a 22-yard touchdown pass from Palmer to wide receiver J.J. Nelson to take an early 7-0 lead.
The two teams mainly traded punts throughout the rest of the first half, with two significant Rams sacks keeping it that way. Aaron Donald recorded one of those quarterback takedowns in the second quarter. The defensive tackle broke through the line to get to Palmer for his eighth sack of the season, bringing the signal-caller down at the St. Louis 37 for a 4-yard loss. Donald leads the team in the category.
A similar situation occurred later in the second quarter, as safety Maurice Alexander recorded his second sack of the season. Alexander came on a blitz from the left side and beat the right tackle with his speed. He then took down Palmer for a nine-yard loss to move Arizona from the St. Louis 31 to the 40 and induce a punt.
But the Cardinals got back on the board just before halftime. After a Hekker punt set the visitors up at their own 40, the Cardinals used chunk-yardage plays to quickly move into St. Louis territory. But Donald induced a holding penalty, which backed the visitors up 10 yards. From there, the Rams kept Arizona out of the end zone and went into the locker room down 10-0.
St. Louis got on the board early in the third quarter with the help of a big play from running back Todd Gurley. The rookie out of Georgia burst through a hole for a 34-yard gain to the Arizona 17 — his longest run since his long touchdown against San Francisco. The Rams turned the red-zone opportunity into a field goal, cutting the lead to 10-3.
The ensuing drive started off well for St. Louis, as running back Kerwynn Williams fumbled the ball out of bounds at the Arizona two-yard line. But the Cardinals got off another methodical drive, highlighted by a deep ball from Palmer to Michael Floyd for 31 yards on 3rd-and-3. The next play, Johnson broke through the line for a 23-yard gain to get into St. Louis territory. Eventually, Palmer hit Johnson with a 10-yard touchdown pass on 3rd-and-8 to increase the visitors’ lead to 17-3.
It didn’t take long for Arizona to find the end zone again. After a Rams three-and-out, the Cardinals got the ball back at their own 19 and found the end zone in seven plays. Williams got the handoffs on that drive, opening it up with a 15-yard gain, and closing it out with a 35-yard touchdown run. With the TD, Arizona took a commanding 24-3 lead.
In the fourth quarter, the Rams had a chance to put more points on the board but could not execute in the red zone. Foles’ passes to Austin and Kenny Britt got the drive going on the right foot, and a Foles pass to Jared Cook moved the chains on 4th-and-4 at the Arizona 19. But from there, Foles threw three incomplete passes and the signal-caller’s fourth-down pass to Bradley Marquez came up four yards short of the goal line to turn the ball over on downs.
Arizona added a late field goal to go up 27-3 and close out the scoring.
“We know we have to get our stuff together — we don’t need anyone to tell us that,” Gurley said. “We’re just as frustrated as the fans. We’re just as frustrated as them.”
“We just have to pick our heads up,” defensive back Lamarcus Joyner said. “These guys are grown men. It’s a job for us. We get paid do to what we do and we have to do what we do really good. Guys have to pick their heads up and go out there and win the next game.”
Injury-wise, Janoris Jenkins and Lance Kendricks each left the game with a concussion and will be in the protocol heading into next week.
With the loss, the Rams fall to 4-8 on the season. Their homestand continues with the Lions at the Edward Jones Dome next Sunday at Noon CT.
“We have four more games — let’s go out here and wreak havoc,” defensive tackle Michael Brockers said. “I think that’s what we have to do.”
December 7, 2015 at 12:54 am in reply to: reporters can't help but look at the ARIZONA game as they drive by #35210
znModeratorTen Takeaways from the Rams’ 27-3 Loss to the Cardinals
Randy Karraker
http://www.101sports.com/2015/12/06/ten-takeaways-rams-27-3-loss-cardinals/
Before an actual crowd of perhaps 35,000 despite 51,000 tickets being distributed, the St. Louis Rams turned in another feeble performance in a 27-3 loss to the Arizona Cardinals.
They’ve lost five in a row, and prospects for one more win don’t look promising. Here are ten takeaways…
1) For a normal business or sports franchise wishing to succeed in the market it inhabits, failure that leads to apathy would be an alarming thing. There’s no doubt that the St. Louis fan base has reached the point of apathy. They don’t show up at the games, and it’s completely understandable. With the threat of relocation and a terrible team, any emotion left toward the business is negative. But that’s exactly what the Rams want. The owner wants to move the team to Los Angeles, so what has happened over the last five weeks, with a five game losing streak, couldn’t be more convenient.
They’ve tried to ruin the football market, and they’ve virtually done it.
2) We heard after the Sam Bradford-Nick Foles trade that Chip Kelly had determined that he couldn’t win with Foles. Now we know what he meant. Foles continues to flounder, and following another dreadful performance on Sunday, coach Jeff Fisher announced that Case Keenum will start at quarterback again next week. Only an injured Andrew Luck has a lower completion percentage than Foles, who looks like he has no idea where the ball is going when it leaves his hand. Either he had a deal with the Devil two years ago when he threw 27 touchdowns with two interceptions, or his abilities and fundamentals have deteriorated in an extraordinary fashion.
3) During the five game losing streak, the Rams ineptness has reached astounding levels. They’ve averaged just over ten points per game, and have scored four touchdowns in the five games. How can that happen in 2015? The league’s average is 23 points per team, per game, and the average yardage is 355 per game. The Rams average 15.8 points and 296 yards. Those averages have declined over the last five games.
nick foles-10Rams QB Nick Foles hands off the ball to RB Tre Mason in the first half of Sunday’s game. Arizona held the Rams to 66 rushing yards.
4) The Cardinals had eight plays of twenty or more yards, and the Rams had three. Todd Gurley had a 34 yard run, and Foles hit Kenny Britt for 30 yards and Tavon Austin for 24. That’s it for the Rams explosive plays. In a sport of explosive plays, Fisher’s St. Louis teams have continued to fail to evolve with the rest of the league.
5) Even Fisher admitted that the lack of offense is affecting the defense. Arizona essentially had the ball for 40 minutes to 20. “Defensively, (they were) on the field way too much. Way too much. Against that kind of offense, they’re going to score points.” And the Cardinals did, gouging the Rams for five plays of 23 or more yards after halftime.
6) With the Cardinals up 24-3 in the fourth quarter, Arizona quarterback Carson Palmer was 4-7 for 84 yards. It was 27-3 when Drew Stanton came on at QB, and he threw three passes, going 1-1 for six yards and also drawing two pass interference penalties. Think Cardinals coach Bruce Arians wants to stick it to the Rams?
7) With Trumaine Johnson out with an injury, the Rams only dressed two real cornerbacks, Marcus Roberson and Janoris Jenkins. Jenkins left the game twice, causing Lamarcus Joyner to cover one of the Cardinals outstanding receivers. Palmer was 26-40 for 356 yards and two touchdowns. The roster composition of the team doesn’t lend itself to a great deal of success if injuries hit anywhere except the defensive line.
8) Speaking of which, there’s a segment on ESPN’s College Gameday called “You had one job.” I was thinking of that segment early in the third quarter when Tavon Austin returned a punt 67 yards to the Cardinal 3 yard line, but it was called back. Chase Reynolds was called for holding and instead of having the ball at the Cardinal 3, they had it at their own 49. Chase, you’re a running back who hasn’t run a single play from scrimmage all year. You’re a special teams specialist. You had one job! And you were called for holding and cost your team at least three points, maybe seven. One job!
9) The Rams were a colossally bad 1-12 on third down. Eight percent. For the season, the Cardinals, Falcons and Saints are all at 46% for the season in third down conversions. San Francisco is 30th at 33%, and Miami is 31st at 28%. The Rams are last at 24%. 38 for 155. Amazingly bad. When your offense can’t stay on the field, the rest of the team is going to suffer. And the Rams have stayed on the field on 3rd down 38 times in twelve games. An average of three third down conversions per game.
10) I must admit I had to go to Thesaurus.com, but here are fifteen words to describe the Rams offense. Abominable, appalling, awful, disgusting, dreadful, frightful, ghastly, grim, grisly, gruesome, horrendous, horrid, odious, repulsive and terrible. There are plenty of words for this offense. After being 4-3, 4-12 looks like a distinct possibility.
There’s another word in the dictionary that means rickety or shaky. That word is Ramshackle. And you can’t spell it without R-A-M.
znModeratori think fisher’s got a problem drafting knuckleheads. could robinson be the next in a long line of super-athletic knuckleheads drafted by fisher?
We used to say the same thing about Jenkins.
I can’t think of a long line of knuckleheads they drafted. Just Pead. Or Bailey, if you count his suspensions. They actually seem to have a long line of high value picks. Knucleheads appear to be a small fraction. That’s nothing like the 2005/6 Rams, which led the league in knuckleheads: Barron, Incognito, Terrell, Byrd, and Wroten.
znModeratorThe offensive line had no sacks and no penalties against Arizona. The defensive line was not off sides.
Well yeah they had a couple of false starts…were those not on linemen? Were they all on TE/WRs?
.
znModeratorGood for Bradford. We can sign him when he becomes a FA. And RG3, let’s sign him too
Then trade them both for Foles.
Plus, draft picks.
znModeratorwell it’s not anything that’s going to be fixed soon. probably not until the offseason.
I think it will be better just from starting Keenum.
And, I want to stress this—not that I think Keenum is a great qb.
znModeratorI didn’t take him as saying what others take him as saying. Given the context I took him as saying “I am just seeing the same things I have commented on before.” I know a lot of people made more of it…I’m not surprised.
It sounded to me like he pulled up short on saying he thinks he needs a different coordinator.
===
(On how to increase offensive production)
“Coach is almost out of answers. My responsibility is to say, ‘Hey, I’m going to get this thing fixed.’ I mean we’re not efficient on offense. We have too many good players. We’ve got guys that can produce. We have an outstanding running back and we have a dynamic receiver. We’re starting to get a little bit better on the offensive line and so we’ll keep working. But it has to get better. It’s not good.”
znModeratorPatz can’t come back. 35-28 Eagles.
So I got a little decent football pleasure out of today.
znModeratorny coach that says that was an acceptable effort can kiss my ass
The issue wasn’t and has not been “effort.”
It’s execution.
You can put in all the effort you want and if you can’t execute you lose.
Fisher was right about effort. It’s not the issue.
Yeah, its not effort. True.
But to ‘me’ the word ‘execution’ is pretty meaningless.
I put it up there with “we didnt score enough points to win”Its meaningless to me, because it gives no clue
as to WHY the plays are not being ‘executed’ properly.Having said that, i never get mad at coaches
for what the say or dont say at press conferences.
I mean, would we expect them to explain
the nuts and bolts of why the team lost.
I dont expect that out of coaches — i expect
broad meaningless generalizations. Thats what
Belicheck gives win or lose.
w
v“Execution” is a real thing. What it means is that while plays are there, the players are not, individually and as a group, doing what they’re supposed to on those plays…they’re not doing their assignments properly. It can be any number of reasons, including problems with technique, and so on.
It’s not one of those gray area dismissable terms. It has real meaning.
It’s true that you don’t always have a “why.” But because we don’t know why drivers go through red lights doesn’t mean it is meaningless to say they drove through red lights.
znModeratorny coach that says that was an acceptable effort can kiss my ass
The issue wasn’t and has not been “effort.”
It’s execution.
You can put in all the effort you want and if you can’t execute you lose.
Fisher was right about effort. It’s not the issue.
znModeratorwhy is westbrooks inactive I wonder
znModeratorSo I live with it and can mostly function fine but once in awhile it acts up.
Which is why we have to think about your replacement in the next poster draft.
You are not as useful to us if your arm goes numb and you can’t type.
I mean sure yeah, great posting career and everything PA, but, posting is a “what have you typed for me lately” business.
Just the cold hard merciless truth.
znModeratorIt’s clear he doesn’t want to be in St. Louis.
I don;’t think that’s a factor at all. There’s no evidence of “St. Louis is not an option.” It just looks like he wants to be this big owner with the fabulous LA property. That doesn’t mean he would not accept St. Louis at all if things didn’t play out for LA.
znModeratori seem to remember reports saying that robinson was not putting in the necessary preparation it takes to be a professional instead relying on his athleticism. that’s disappointing. so maybe he realizes he can’t get away with it at this level. hopefully it’s just part of the maturation process. he needs to wake up.
Well no the report was that he had STOPPED doing that, ie. that he had stopped believing he was just athletic enough and didn’t need more. The issue was specifically him studying film of his opponents.
That’s not that uncommon. Williams openly came out and said he had similar issues with Joyner, that in 2014 Joyner just believed in his own athleticism and wouldn’t do things the way he was supposed to.
The recent revelation about Robinson came in the wake of GR realizing that he was doing things the wrong way by not studying opponents and so on.
znModeratorWell I hope you are right, but I am skeptical at this point.
Sigh.
Another board war.
Oh well.

znModeratorand thus
and therefore, he must be able to pass-block.Well athlete does not mean pass blocker per se. Pass blocking is technique and awareness. Athlete means potential for SUPERIOR pass blocker. But until he learns the technique and gains awareness, he is going to be more limited.
IMO every complaint we hear about GR gets down to technique and awareness, both of which have to do with experience and learning.
He was just THAT raw coming out. Way behind.
Yet at the same time, they have 2 more LOT prospects in Battle and Wms. So, that;s interesting too.
.
znModeratorjust another view from off the net
===
Deadpool
the young and inexperienced part is a major reason why they were subpar to begin the season. The injuries have made this line worse IMO. So the injuries have been a cause for the OL troubles.
At some point you just have to stand pat, let the guys gel as a unit and pray they stay healthy and improve.
Its a young line, that has been riddled by injuries. But the thing is, not one team in the NFL is going to give up on a 2nd round RT and a 3rd round RG after 1 year. So those 2 are going to be there in 2016. Saffold’s contract says he is going to be there at LG in 2016. 6m cap number with 3m in dead money and 3m in cap savings so yeah… They also are not giving up on the 2nd overall pick from 2 years ago. So Robinson is here as well.
Whats my point? Robinson, Saffold, Brown and Hav are all going to be here next year and starting as long as they are healthy. I wouldn’t mind a mid round pick at OC for competition and let the rookie and Barnes battle it out. Give those 5 guys (or at least 4 of them another offseason to gel, as well as getting stronger in the offseason conditioning program.
Another thing that is rarely touched on, is Robinson. Year 1 he was moved between LT and OG. Then they settled him in at OG. Then he was moved back to LT. Coming from a simplified offense, and being so young along with the constant moving had to slow his learning curve. So now its year 2 and what do they do? Have him lose weight and switch to a one blocking scheme. I am not sure if he knows if he’s afoot or on horseback. He’s a really good athlete, so there is nothing saying he cannot play the position. Everything said about him at AU was that he was a hard worker. So maybe, just maybe a 2nd year at his original position, with the same blocking scheme will allow him to stop thinking and just play. Which, IMO, would improve his game.
On Barnes, he was playing well early until he had raw, overmatched rookies on both sides of him caused him to maybe try and overcompensate for his interior linemates. I think if you bring back Saffold and Brown, he would be just fine.
As far as Hav and Brown, 1 year in the offseason program and minicamps will do wonders for them both.
The problem I have with the injuries I guess involves Saffold. To sign a guy with annual injuries to a big contract and then expecting him to stay healthy seemed very risky. And his injury really set in motion a whole slew of line shuffling that the Rams have never recovered from. But I just do not see the Rams eating 3m in dead money to save 3m in cap space. I’m just trying to take a realistic approach to this mess. And IMO, the Rams will not eat 3m. I could be wrong.
znModeratorre the powers-that-bee gonna stop
the game and pull a player every time there’s a hard hit now?IF they have reason to believe he has a possible concussion…yes.
Regardless of the fall out.
znModeratorJoe Lyons
It appears the Rams will again be without defensive end Robert Quinn, cornerback Trumaine Johnson and kicker Greg Zuerlein when they take on the red-hot Arizona Cardinals at noon Sunday at the Edward Jones Dome.
The team’s Friday injury report listed Quinn (back), Johnson (thigh) and Zuerlein (right hip) as doubtful for the NFC West showdown. In NFL terms, doubtful means there is just a 25 percent chance of playing Sunday.
None of the three players practiced this week.
Quinn, a two-time Pro Bowl selection, started the season’s first seven games, sat a week and then saw limited action against Chicago. He was inactive for recent games at Baltimore and at Cincinnati. Sixth-year pro Eugene Sims has been filling in for Quinn.
Johnson, in the midst of perhaps his best season, was injured on an interception return in Baltimore and did not play in last week’s 31-7 road loss to the Bengals. Marcus Roberson, a second-year pro, stepped in against Baltimore and started in the Cincinnati game.
Zuerlein suffered a strained hip flexor a couple of days before the Cincinnati game. A day before that contest, the team signed free agent kicker Zach Hocker, a University of Arkansas product who began the season with the New Orleans Saints.
Zuerlein “did not kick (Friday), so it’ll probably be a game-time decision,’’ Rams coach Jeff Fisher said after Friday’s workout at Rams Park. “Zach kicked well, kicked off well (Friday), so we’ll see.’’
Quarterback Case Keenum was limited in practice Friday and still has not cleared the concussion protocol. He’s listed as questionable, which is 50-50.
On Thursday, Fisher named Nick Foles as the starter at quarterback.
Tackle Rob Havenstein, the team’s second-round draft pick last May, went through another full workout Friday and is listed probable. Havenstein started the first seven games at right tackle but has sat out three of the last four games with a calf injury.
znModeratorRams notes: Key players could again be out vs. Cardinals
Joe Lyons
It appears the Rams will again be without defensive end Robert Quinn, cornerback Trumaine Johnson and kicker Greg Zuerlein when they take on the red-hot Arizona Cardinals at noon Sunday at the Edward Jones Dome.
The team’s Friday injury report listed Quinn (back), Johnson (thigh) and Zuerlein (right hip) as doubtful for the NFC West showdown. In NFL terms, doubtful means there is just a 25 percent chance of playing Sunday.
None of the three players practiced this week.
Quinn, a two-time Pro Bowl selection, started the season’s first seven games, sat a week and then saw limited action against Chicago. He was inactive for recent games at Baltimore and at Cincinnati. Sixth-year pro Eugene Sims has been filling in for Quinn.
Johnson, in the midst of perhaps his best season, was injured on an interception return in Baltimore and did not play in last week’s 31-7 road loss to the Bengals. Marcus Roberson, a second-year pro, stepped in against Baltimore and started in the Cincinnati game.
Zuerlein suffered a strained hip flexor a couple of days before the Cincinnati game. A day before that contest, the team signed free agent kicker Zach Hocker, a University of Arkansas product who began the season with the New Orleans Saints.
Zuerlein “did not kick (Friday), so it’ll probably be a game-time decision,’’ Rams coach Jeff Fisher said after Friday’s workout at Rams Park. “Zach kicked well, kicked off well (Friday), so we’ll see.’’
Quarterback Case Keenum was limited in practice Friday and still has not cleared the concussion protocol. He’s listed as questionable, which is 50-50.
On Thursday, Fisher named Nick Foles as the starter at quarterback.
Tackle Rob Havenstein, the team’s second-round draft pick last May, went through another full workout Friday and is listed probable. Havenstein started the first seven games at right tackle but has sat out three of the last four games with a calf injury.
Offensive lineman Andrew Donnal (knee) has been ruled out for Sunday.
The 9-2 Cardinals, who enter Sunday’s action riding a five-game winning streak and holding a three-game lead in the NFC West, have ruled out RB Andre Ellington (toe), CB Jerraud Powers (calf) and DT Frostee Rucker (ankle), with DT Cory Redding (ankle) doubtful. WR Michael Floyd (hamstring) is questionable.
THUMBS-UP FOR ODOM
Rams center Tim Barnes, who played at the University of Missouri from 2006-2009, thinks his alma mater made a wise choice in hiring another ex-Tiger, Barry Odom, to take over for Gary Pinkel as the Tigers’ next football coach.
“I like it. Not really that surprised since Pinkel helped with the search and likes to promote from within,’’ the fourth-year pro said. “You know that Odom was probably going to be a head coach somewhere this year, so why not Mizzou? I know him personally; he’s a good guy and I’m excited for him.’’
Barnes continued: “You want to keep good people in the program, especially when they have good track records. (Odom) hasn’t been here the whole time. He left and went to Memphis and had success there before coming back. Seems like (Memphis) wanted him back, so I think it’s a good choice by Missouri.’’
GOLDEN SHINES
Drafted by the Cardinals in the second round of last spring’s draft, former Affton High and Mizzou standout Marcus Golden had played in all 11 games and made three starts at linebacker for Arizona this season.
The 6-foot-3, 260-pound Golden has 24 tackles, including three for loss. He leads the Cardinals with 13 quarterbacks hits, is second with 2½ sacks and is tied for second with 11 quarterback pressures. He’s also forced a fumble this season.
“I love him,’’ Arizona free safety Tyrann Mathieu said earlier in the week. “I love his energy, I love his passion. He’s getting to the quarterback for us; that’s something we definitely need to keep improving on. We need some other guys to step up and get to the quarterback. Marcus is doing a great job. To say he’s a rookie and he has to learn so much, he’s doing a great job just making football plays.’’
NFL PUNT, PASS & KICK
Before Sunday’s game with the Cardinals, qualifiers age 6-15 from throughout Missouri and Illinois will compete in the NFL Pass, Punt & Kick competition. The action begins at 8 a.m. in five age divisions for boys and girls, with the top scorer in each age group crowned team champion and eligible for the national championships to be held at Colts vs. Titans game on Jan. 3, 2016.
All competitors will be recognized during Sunday’s pregame.
NFL Punt, Pass & Kick began in 1961 and is the nation’s largest grassroots sports skills competition. Among those who’ve participated are Hall of Fame quarterbacks Troy Aikman and Dan Marino.
MESSAGE FROM BAILEY
On Friday, Rams wide receiver Stedman Bailey issued a message via Twitter:
To my entire Rams family, especially my teammates, fans and peers, I thank you so much for your continued prayers and support. My recovery has been nothing short of a miracle (a work of God) and I can only give God the praise, glory and honor for what he is doing in my life at this time. Christmas is a holiday in which Jesus was born as a gift to the world but in all honesty, he has given me and my family a gift which is far greater than what any man can give, a restoration of my life and health. I will continue to get better day by day until I’m able to get back on the field and I ask for your continued prayers.
Love, Stedman Bailey.
znModeratorRams still taking heat for handling of Keenum concussion
Jim Thomas
The after-effects of Case Keenum’s concussion against Baltimore on Nov. 22 have lingered to the point where the Rams quarterback will miss his second consecutive start.
Meanwhile, the controversy also lingers over why Keenum was allowed to finish out the Rams’ final two offensive plays in that contest after hitting his head on the turf at Baltimore’s M&T Bank Stadium on a sack.
Earlier this week, NFL Players Association president Eric Winston told USA Today that he wanted the NFL to reconsider its decision not to issue any fines or discipline for the Rams’ handling of the Keenum concussion.
Winston, a nine-year veteran offensive tackle now with Cincinnati, called the Rams’ handling of the situation a “complete failure to adhere to the (concussion) protocol.”
Winston continued: “Show me someone that says, ‘No, the Rams did exactly the right thing.’ They didn’t. Everybody knows they didn’t. So there has to be discipline, right? Because when a player doesn’t do something that he’s supposed to do, he gets fined for that when it comes to health and safety.”
Fisher said he was unaware that Keenum had been diagnosed with concussion symptoms until after the Rams’ 16-13 loss to the Ravens. Fisher saw Keenum go down but said he was in game-management mode and didn’t realize the quarterback was slow to get up.
On Thursday, Fisher was asked about Winston’s comments and seemed almost eager to reply.
“I’ll say this, I have great respect for Eric as a player, and also in the position that he currently holds within the union — the Players Association,” Fisher said. “It’s awfully difficult for an active player, you know, to stay involved — and how should I say this? — understand everything that went on.
“I don’t think Eric has all of the facts. The facts were all discussed with the league, with the union. I mean, I can see his position. His position is to protect players. But his position’s no different than mine, nor Reggie (Scott)’s, or anybody else associated with the league.”
Scott is the Rams’ head athletic trainer. He briefly checked out Keenum after the play, while referee Tony Corrente’s crew was administering a penalty that occurred on the play. But the independent injury spotter at press box level never called for a medical timeout to check out Keenum on the sideline, probably because Scott came out on the field.
“It’s very unlikely that anybody is going to be penalized,” Fisher continued. “As I said two weeks ago (after the Keenum incident) … we’re trying to close the loophole to make sure that that doesn’t happen again.”
Although the NFL will consider discipline for future violations of concussion protocol, the league already has let it be known there will be no club discipline in the Keenum matter.
A conference call involving athletic trainers and team physicians from all 32 teams was held last week to discuss what went wrong with the concussion protocol in the Baltimore game, and what can be done to prevent it from happening again.
Medical experts from the league and the players association are continuing to review the issue.
More criticism was directed at the Rams, and at Fisher in particular, on the topic this week. Former NFL player and current ESPN analyst Mark Schlereth said in a radio appearance that it was a “bold-faced lie” for Fisher to say he didn’t realize Keenum was injured because he was in game-management mode.
Fisher said he spoke with Schlereth on Thursday to clear the air.
“He apologized to me,” Fisher said. “Again, Mark didn’t have all of the facts. Those things happen. That’s the world we live in right now.
“When you have the facts and you understand what happened, everything that led up to that incident — and any other incident for that matter — unless you’ve got all the facts, you should probably keep your mouth shut. I think Mark’s one of the best, so we had a really good conversation.”
Fisher said he initiated the dialogue with Schlereth when he learned about his remarks.
“Would you call somebody if they called you a liar?” Fisher said. “Probably. So I did. I have great respect for Mark and we got it resolved, no problem.”
As for Keenum, he has not been made available to reporters while he’s still under the concussion protocol. He has gotten some practice repetitions with the scout team this week, running Arizona plays for the benefit of the Rams’ first-team defense.
The Rams play the Cardinals in a noon kickoff Sunday at the Edward Jones Dome.
But Keenum did not get any reps with the first-team offense this week while still under the concussion protocol. For that reason, Fisher decided to go with Nick Foles at quarterback against the Big Red. And that won’t change even if Keenum says Saturday that he feels great and clears the protocol.
Although unlikely, if that’s the case Saturday, Keenum will be the team’s No. 2 QB and dress for the Arizona game. Otherwise, rookie Sean Mannion will be No. 2 behind Foles for the second week in a row, and Keenum once again will be a game-day inactive.
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