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znModeratorI think wv is mostly concerned about the “passing” offense though. A lot of the big plays are actually running plays.
And not all of them. In fact the Vikes contained Gurley yet at one point I thought the Rams would win.
The mistake I see everyone making is they are taking one bad result and magnifying it, and losing sight of the fact that this is a young new offense, with the least experienced OL any of us have ever seen or heard of.
Naturally an offense like that is inconsistent. But it also has the pieces to settle down and become consistent.
If everything were as bad as everyone says, why were they beaten in overtime by 3 points, while on the road with key defenders missing with Foles having a very up and down day and Gurley contained.
We’ve been through 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2011. We would have done anything in the past to have them be that competitive under those conditions.
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znModeratorWho can process at real time speed? The rams will errs on the side of aggressiveness which I like. As they say – if I had it all to do over, I’d do it just the same.
Oh I don’t think that was just a mistake. He wanted a piece of the qb, he just didn’t want to do a flagrant kill shot. It just backfired on him.
znModeratorJim Thomas @jthom1 7m7 minutes ago
Rams remain last in 3rd-down conversion rate (23.8%); they have converted only 24 off 101 third downs into first downs this season.Jim Thomas @jthom1 9m9 minutes ago
Foles ranks 27th in passer rating (79.7), 28th in 3rd-down passing (62.9), and 31st in 4th-quarter passing (71.6).Jim Thomas @jthom1 12m12 minutes ago
Rams move up to 5th in total defense following Minnesota game, but are 31st in total offense and 32nd in passing offense.And Jim watches them so he knows this is true too: they’re a mess because they are young and have not come together yet, BUT even given that they make enough big plays to be in games.
We would burn all the sage in the universe to have gotten even that much in 2009 or 2011.
So ironically, the Rams are low in a lot of passing stats…yet 16th in points.
That is something that has to be explained. How can it be both.
Well, it’s the “young and struggling and not coherent but can make big plays and be in games” factor.
Which may make it one of the worst Rams offenses in terms of YARDS…but far from REALLY being one of the worst offenses. This one is just not together yet. Which means it CAN come together, though I ain’t promising when.
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znModeratorWell i think Bowen misses the main point —
What I see on replay is Joyner zooming in like a rocket
and changing his angle slightly so as to either
miss the QB completely and just strafe him,
or to just graze him to let him know Joyner
is out there. What i dont see is Joyner
taking aim and trying to hurt the QB.
Looked to me like there was a very subtle
change of angle by Joyner to ‘avoid’ a major collision.Penalty? Yes. Intentional head-hunting? Nah.
w
vI agree with that. Joyner wanted a little deniable piece of action. He didn’t calculate on the qb’s head bouncing off the turf. But I don’t think he was out for a kill. I think he was surprised by the result. Problem is if you’re out for a little “deniable” piece of over the edge playing, you can’t calculate the results. So better not to do it.
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znModeratorNo.
Just off the top of my head, it was worse in 2009 and 2011.
This one fails to consistently get yards but makes plays in spurts.
Former ones didn’t even do THAT. They just failed to get yards.
That’s because this one isn’t a collapsed and broken offense like in those years. This one is a struggling offense that has the ingredients to get better.
For example look at the point differential.
2009: Rams 10.9 v. 27.25
2011: Rams 12 v, 25.4
2015: Rams 19.1 v. 18.25The difference again being that the 2 previous years represent complete collapse (mostly from injuries but also from personnel issues).
This one ranks low statistically but manages to make some big plays. But it is low statistically not because it is damaged, but because it is young and inexperienced as a unit, without the kind of cohesion they need, but which will come later.
znModeratorSo if Foles is the weak link–if he has hit is ceiling and this is it–this is what we’ll get week in and week out–inability to convert 3rd downs, 3 and outs, no real confidence from the coach–limits on where he will throw the ball–what does that mean?
I personally don’t believe that.
I think the weak link is having an inexperienced, young OL.
Both Minnesota and GB attacked the line and took it apart, and one result was, Foles played worse under pressure.
But then it’s a rare qb who doesn’t.
To me this is an old conversation going back to 2007, when several folks blamed Bulger for the season, when he was playing behind one of the most injury-wracked lines I have ever seen since I starting following the NFL. For some reason, many folks back then just could not factor line play into the equation. I think the same mistake is happening now.
Give Foles reasonable time, give the offense a reasonable running threat, and I think he’s a pretty good play action qb.
The problem is, since we have never seen a team with an OL this young and inexperienced, we don’t know when it will stabilize. But odds are it will.
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znModeratorIn a close game like that, it is hard for me to pick any one thing that lost the game.
Well logically that’s true but in my case, I measure how the flow of the game feels. At what point do I think, okay this thing here made it harder to get a win. It’s a momentum thing. So I just remember that while watching the game, that’s what I felt—my instincts were, blowing that opportunity would cost them, and flipped the game. Up until that point in fact I thought they had a strong chance of winning.
So it’s just different people looking at the thing differently.
I am not arguing someone else has to see it my way by any means—just adding my own 2 cents.
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znModeratorKnockout blow to Teddy Bridgewater wasn’t Bountygate 2.0
Matt Bowen
ESPN InsiderMinnesota Vikings quarterback Teddy Bridgewater knew the drill when he pulled the ball down to run early in the fourth quarter on Sunday versus the St. Louis Rams. All quarterbacks do. Pick up the first down there, add a couple of rushing yards to the stat column and then slide, dive, whatever. Just get the yardage, get down and live to see the next play.
But Bridgewater still paid for it. And the reality is quarterbacks often will in a league where the QB is the ultimate target, regardless of who is coaching the defense.
The hit? Yeah, it looked nasty. A vicious shot from Rams defensive back Lamarcus Joyner, delivered right as Bridgewater was sliding, or giving himself up. Put that thing in slow motion and you can see the quarterback’s head snap down on the turf. It knocked him right out of the game. He was finished.
Immediately after the hit, there was talk of another Gregg Williams’ coached defense intentionally targeting players. That hit from Joyner was dirty, right? I get it. The Bountygate tales were going to surface given Williams’ past history in the league. I’ve been on a defense with Williams running the show, and I’ve seen the bounties.
But before we go pin the hit on Williams, a coach I should admit I respect as much as any I’ve played for, let’s just be honest about the situation from an on-field standpoint.
Williams is a master motivator, a true teacher, a veteran coach who gets the most out of his guys. And his defenses do push the envelope. They walk the line. Always. But to try and pair that with the Joyner hit? Nah. That’s a reach. Bridgewater wasn’t put on some pregame list with dollar signs next to his name in the program. That’s a lazy narrative, a reach to cover up the real story in the NFL. The truth is, if we didn’t know what we do about Williams from Bountygate, we wouldn’t be able to discern the intent of his defenses from any other team.
This is a fact: Quarterbacks are always targeted, regardless of who is running the defense that day. Take them out, within or on the edge of the rules, and your chances of winning increase dramatically.
Plays like this are easy to critique from the couch or even in the stands. You see a quarterback go down, especially when the head is involved, and the outrage floods social media. Everyone knows the ramifications of concussions, and everyone is an expert, just waiting to throw out opinions, to gain a voice on a hit that doesn’t mesh with their standards of clean, ethical play.
When Bridgewater started to slide, everything went wrong. It was the imperfect combination of NFL speed and a QB in the open field. If you want to say Joyner was intentionally trying to bounce Bridgewater’s head off the turf like a basketball, then go with it. I probably won’t change your mind, and that’s fine. But I just don’t believe he was looking to make contact with the helmet of the quarterback. That wasn’t his plan when he broke downhill and prepared himself to deliver the hit. The rest? Well, it happens when angles change at the last second.
Yes, it was a brutal hit. But put yourself in the shoes of Joyner, or any defender in the NFL that sees the quarterback tuck that ball to run. I’ve been there, and regardless of who your coach is, your mindset is clear: That’s fresh meat in the open field. If you have a shot — a legitimate shot — then you drop your pads and put it on him. Make it physical, too. That’s not meathead stuff here, it’s just football the way you’ve been trained to play. And while slow motion tells you one thing, in the pros, it happens so fast, like lightning, that defenders just can’t pull off in time to save a guy.
I’ve watched the hit from Joyner over and over. And I’ve been in those situations as a player. There was an opportunity there for Joyner — leading with his shoulder — to put Bridgewater down, to let him know that running the ball against his defense wasn’t the best idea going forward. “Next time,” Joyner is thinking, “just hang in the pocket and make the throw, or we will take you out.” That’s the message you are trying to send as a defensive player.
Nice? No, it’s not. But that’s the reality of the NFL.
ESPN.com NFL analyst Matt Bowen played seven seasons in the NFL.
znModeratorRams’ Lamarcus Joyner merits major NFL discipline for illegal shot
Kevin Seifert
The NFL has a thick rulebook and a detailed fine schedule, making it difficult to imagine how both won’t be used to issue a significant penalty this week to St. Louis Rams defensive back Lamarcus Joyner.
Joyner, of course, delivered the illegal shot that knocked Minnesota Vikings quarterback Teddy Bridgewater unconscious Sunday at TCF Bank Stadium. I was shocked at how divided social media was on the play, but there seems no doubt to me that Joyner violated NFL rules protecting players who slide, and his hit caused Bridgewater’s concussion.
Depending on how the NFL classifies the infraction, Joyner will be fined at least $8,681, but likely more. If Bridgewater is deemed to have been a “defenseless player,” a term that seems created for the position he was in, Joyner’s minimum fine will be $23,152. Because he has no known history of such hits, Joyner is unlikely to be suspended.
Teddy Bridgewater
Teddy Bridgewater left Sunday’s game with a concussion after a hit from Lamarcus Joyner.Let’s take a closer look at the play. Bridgewater scrambled 5 yards for a first down and then initiated a feet-first slide with 13 minutes, 18 seconds remaining in the game. Joyner dove at him with his left forearm arched at a 90-degree angle. I received multiple tweets from those who thought Joyner barely made contact, but the replay shows his upper left arm hit Bridgewater’s facemask, causing the helmet to bounce violently off the turf.
Bridgewater was diagnosed with a concussion and must pass through the league’s mandatory concussion protocol in order to be eligible to play in the Vikings’ game Sunday at the Oakland Raiders.
Referee Ronald Torbert penalized Joyner 15 yards for unnecessary roughness, and the rules in this area seem clear. According to Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1 (d)(1), “A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide.” The rule goes on to note that contact is legal if a runner has “already committed himself and the contact is unavoidable.” But even in those cases, the rule notes, it is a penalty if “the defender commits some other act, such as helmet-to-helmet contact or by driving his forearm or shoulder into the head or neck area of the runner.”
Joyner told reporters after the game that he had already “launched” when Bridgewater started sliding, a debatable contention. But even if that were the case, the nature of the ensuing contact not only was illegal but also destroyed the precise tenet of the NFL’s campaign to protect quarterbacks who are willing to surrender further yardage in order to avoid big hits.
Whether Joyner intended to hurt Bridgewater is irrelevant, although there was little doubt what Vikings coach Mike Zimmer thought of it. Zimmer noted the “history” of Rams defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, whose theatrics were a major reason the NFL pursued the “Bountygate” investigation against the New Orleans Saints in 2012. At the time, it was reported that Williams encouraged head shots that knocked quarterbacks from the game, an edict that came to be symbolized by a recording in which he told players: “Kill the head, the body will die.”
Independent of whatever philosophies Williams might preach, and regardless of intent, Joyner made a big mistake. He delivered avoidable contact to the head of a player no longer trying to ward it off, causing an injury the NFL wants to prevent at every turn. There is no defending or explaining it, and the league must use its array of disciplinary options to address the infraction.
znModeratorJust to show that it was not a bad decision to go for 2 early in the game. You can criticize Fisher for other decisions but not this.
I agree with that.
Some can say that one thing lost the game, and okay if someone thinks that they think it, but to me what lost the game was when the defense had the Vikes backed up to their own endzone and then committed a series of penalties that let them off the hook.
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znModeratorHochman: Foles looks like weak link
Benjamin Hochman
MINNEAPOLIS • The truth was in the dare.
“I was telling the boys — ‘Are they serious, do they really want to give us the ball?’” recalled Rams receiver Kenny Britt, in what surely sounded like loquacious squawking.
But they were serious — the Vikings dared Nick Foles to try to beat them with a touchdown … and Nick Foles responded like Nick Foles.
Yup, the Rams signed a guy to be a franchise quarterback, and Rams opponents want him to have the ball in overtime.
Even an overtime win Sunday wouldn’t have masked the overall issue — Foles is flimsy and fallible, and the Rams’ offense has been reduced to surviving with him at the helm.
“I put a lot on myself, and I just have to keep playing better and growing as a quarterback,” he said after going three-and-out in overtime, as his Rams then lost, 21-18, on an ensuing field goal. “We have to get touchdowns, especially on the road. We have to get touchdowns and get in the red zone.”
Ugh, it’s hard to hear that the franchise quarterback, who’s paid as such, needs to continue to grow. But on Sunday, the Rams entered their biggest game since 2006 — they were in the playoff picture, but it appeared they didn’t have a playoff quarterback.
Maybe it’s on the receivers, too. And the offensive line. But Foles infuriates with ill-timed passes and floppy floaters toward St. Paul. From the very first play of the game, when the quarterback missed a preposterously wide-open Britt, Foles didn’t seem all there.
And later, it appeared that even coach Jeff Fisher lacked confidence in Foles.
Down 18-15 late in the fourth, Todd Gurley galloped down field, unleashing a trio of tributes, if you will, to the angry rushing style of Adrian Peterson. The Rams were barely within field goal range. After two more run plays, they faced a third-and-11 play, but Fisher had Foles hand it off to Gurley, setting up a field goal attempt. Somewhere, even Donald Trump was thinking: Man, now that’s conservative.
Of the third-down call, Fisher said: “Big picture, we felt fairly confident that defensively we’d get the ball back and have a chance to win in regulation. And then we missed the kick.”
Greg Zuerlein redeemed himself with a field goal in the final ticks, sending it to overtime.
But then came the game-changing coin toss.
Now, heading into Sunday’s game, the mind wandered.
If the Rams win, they’re 5-3. …
And five of their final eight games are against teams with losing records. …
Could the Rams make the playoffs? …
Could the Rams, just so dominant since the Gurley emergence, actually go to the Super Bowl? All you have to do is get in the tournament. …
Could the NFL owners then have the audacity to allow a Super Bowl team to move to another city?
OK, OK, let’s reel it back in.
The Rams are now 4-4.
And the onus is on Foles to change games with his arm, and not just get through them by not messing up too badly. It’s not working the way it is. He can compliment Gurley, but he must also complement Gurley.
On Sunday, Foles finished 18 for 33 for 168 yards, 55 of those from one deep connection to Britt, which led to the Rams’ lone touchdown. The Rams converted just two third downs, on 16 tries.
Two third downs.
And in the second half as a whole, the Rams only garnered six total first downs.
The Vikings loaded the box on Gurley. The Vikings started sniffing out the handoff to receiver Tavon Austin. The Vikings dared Foles to win it with his arm.
“When it came down to it, we weren’t able to keep drives alive,” Fisher said. “We’re not as productive as we’d like to be on offense.”
In overtime, Fisher didn’t expect Minnesota to kick to the Rams, who would then have to march into the wind. Britt clearly didn’t expect it. Neither did even some of the Vikings.
Asked about the decision, “First thing was — I was surprised,” said Minnesota defensive end Brian Robison. “Second thing was — that tells me he has confidence in us to go get the job done. Any time your coach has that type of confidence in the defense, you don’t want to disappoint.”
Perhaps the Rams win the next two games because the Rams’ next two opponents stink. Maybe two Sundays from now, they’re 6-4 and we’re again talking playoffs. Maybe some weak defenses are all Nick needs to to discover deep-ball braggadocio.
Here’s hoping that Foles finds what he needs to find, because, frankly, it’s been fun talking about the Rams without also having to talk about Los Angeles.
But January looms. Both the playoffs and the owners’ decision.
znModeratorI could not find how many times Foles was hurried or hit this game or for the season. I do know he was sacked once and the Rams are allowing a ~5% sack rate per pass play this year. That is right in the middle for all teams. I would like to know how much of the pressure on Foles is actual vs perceived.
Foles is hit a lot though not sacked much. The problem shows up when you consider the low number of attempts. This does (I think) include today’s game, but he has been sacked 12 times, hit 50 times, and with 222 attempts, that’s a hit/sack rate of 27.9%, which is high. I have no way of ranking it with this game compared to other qbs though, at least not right now.
Source:
These are the numbers BEFORE this game (“DBs” = “dropbacks):
Sks Hts DBs % Team
31 60 265 34.3% Seattle Seahawks
28 57 263 32.3% Tennessee Titans
28 48 271 28.0% San Francisco 49ers
11 41 200 26.0% St. Louis Rams
27 59 331 26.0% Cleveland Browns
20 40 231 26.0% Minnesota Vikings
29 47 299 25.4% Kansas City Chiefs
21 51 285 25.3% Miami Dolphins
14 40 224 24.1% Tampa Bay Buccaneers
20 37 242 23.6% Buffalo Bills
22 60 361 22.7% Detroit Lions
21 34 262 21.0% Pittsburgh Steelers
17 56 350 20.9% Indianapolis Colts
14 30 218 20.2% Green Bay Packers
19 55 373 19.8% San Diego Chargers
19 38 290 19.7% Jacksonville Jaguars
11 41 275 18.9% Arizona Cardinals
18 38 307 18.2% New England Patriots
13 34 260 18.1% Chicago Bears
15 42 327 17.4% Atlanta Falcons
13 28 236 17.4% Dallas Cowboys
13 26 229 17.0% Carolina Panthers
13 34 287 16.4% Philadelphia Eagles
12 33 278 16.2% Denver Broncos
18 37 360 15.3% New Orleans Saints
17 39 379 14.8% Houston Texans
12 32 312 14.1% New York Giants
8 30 277 13.7% Washington Redskins
10 26 270 13.3% Oakland Raiders
14 30 339 13.0% Baltimore Ravens
7 27 264 12.9% New York Jets
9 20 240 12.1% Cincinnati BengalsznModeratorMistake-prone Rams can’t spring Todd Gurley in loss to Vikings
Nick Wagoner
MINNEAPOLIS — The opportunity for a St. Louis Rams renaissance was there. Entering overtime against the Minnesota Vikings, a team without a winning season in more than a decade stared a prime opportunity to get to 5-3 for the first time since 2003 right in the face. But the Rams couldn’t get out of their own way to make it happen.
The mistake-prone Rams of years gone by showed up again at TCF Bank Stadium, and the result was a 21-18 loss in an eminently winnable game against a Vikings team that also is trying to enjoy a return to the land of success.
After fighting back to tie the game with a 53-yard field goal that sent it to overtime, the Rams had the ball and a chance to win with the Vikings employing backup quarterback Shaun Hill.
Instead, the Rams, who couldn’t get running back Todd Gurley going until it was too late, ran three plays, went backward 6 yards and had to punt. Minnesota promptly moved the ball on the ground with running back Adrian Peterson to set up the winning field goal.
Gurley finished with 24 carries for 89 yards and a touchdown, but against a stacked box for most of the day, there was little room to operate. His 6-yard loss on second down in overtime led to the Rams’ punting from the shadow of their end zone.
Ultimately, the offense couldn’t do enough without Gurley carrying the freight, and the Rams came up short in a game that could have sent a resounding message about their place in the playoff picture.
What it means: At 4-4, the Rams are right on pace for yet another mediocre season under coach Jeff Fisher. Yes, the schedule is light again for the next couple of weeks, but this was a chance to make a statement that it’s time to take the Rams seriously in the NFC.
What were they thinking? On third-and-10 from the Vikings’ 34, the Rams called for a run, clearly settling for a long field goal attempt. Even kicking with the wind, it was too conservative a call to put kicker Greg Zuerlein, who has struggled outdoors, in position to try to tie it from 48 yards. Zuerlein still should have made that kick, but offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti did him no favors on the third-down call.
One reason to panic: You’d think at some point, just based on the law of averages, the Rams would stop being a penalty machine. But it’s what Fisher-coached teams do and it continues to come at a great cost. The Rams had multiple infractions that cost them field position and first downs. They finished with 12 penalties for 87 yards. If this team wants to show it has grown up, it has to cut down on the silly mistakes.
Ouch: The Rams didn’t have any major injury issues during the game, at least none that were evident as it was going on, but they were without some key pieces. End Robert Quinn (knee), safety T.J. McDonald (foot), right tackle Rob Havenstein (ankle) and end Chris Long (knee) did not play after missing most of the practice week.
What’s next: The Rams head back to the Edward Jones Dome to face the Chicago Bears next Sunday.
znModeratorSame Old Reasons Are To Blame For Rams’ Latest Defeat
Bernie Miklasz
http://www.101sports.com/2015/11/09/same-old-reasons-are-to-blame-for-rams-latest-defeat/
When the Rams are at their worst, the underlying reasons are familiar and predictable. The way it all goes down is so numbingly dull, so routine, the Rams can’t even come with new and exciting ways to lose a game. Hey, at least they’re consistent at something.
The Rams formula for frustration should be trademarked by head coach Jeff Fisher.
The specifications include:
— Bad penalties, dumbo penalties, untimely penalties — and a general lack of discipline. These folks commit more errors than Dick Groat (40 for the 1964 baseball Cardinals), and spend more time in the penalty box than Bob Gassoff (306 minutes for the 1975-76 Blues.)
— An offense that would require the navigational assistance of some of history’s greatest explorers — Lewis and Clark, Edmund Hillary, Kurt Warner, Christopher Columbus, Marshall Faulk, Ponce de Leon, Az Hakim, Marco Polo, Isaac Bruce, Ferdinand Magellan, Torry Holt, Amerigo Vespucci, and Ricky Proehl — to reach the end zone on a regular basis.
— A passing game that’s so ineffective, it brings back memories of Steve Pisarkiewicz.
— A success rate in converting third-down plays that’s so poor, it would only be fair to give them five downs, just like the 1990 Colorado Buffaloes in that infamous 1990 game at Mizzou.
These flaws surfaced again Sunday at Minnesota.
In losing to 21-18 to the Vikings in overtime, the Rams mishandled a 15-10 halftime lead, went bankrupt on an opportunity to win a third consecutive game, and squandered the chance to leave the Twin Cities with a 5-3 record. Instead of improving their odds of making the playoffs, the Rams fell to 4-4 and drifted lower in the unofficial NFC wild card standings.
We can point the finger at Fisher’s odd (and failed) decision to go for a two-point conversion after the Rams cut into the Vikings’ 10-lead when Todd Gurley wrestled his way to touchdown run late in the first quarter.
We can be so frustrated by the play calling — and this team’s bizarre refusal to utilize the middle of the field in the passing game — that it makes us want to rub the TV watch-party guacamole in our faces.
We can gripe about the ultra-conservative approach that makes Ted Cruz look a liberal by comparison. (OK, I’m guilty of a mixed sports-politics metaphor there; forgive me but it’s late Sunday night as I write this and my brain is weary.)
And some will even try to blame this on the Rams defense for giving up 21 points, including two red-zone touchdowns on runs by Adrian Peterson and Teddy Bridgewater. The defense could have played better, yes. Their pass-rush pressure was way off. But to dump this on the defense is misplaced. The Rams held the Vikings to a below-average 293 total yards, stopped the home team on 10 of 13 third-down plays, limited Minnesota’s quarterbacks to a 57.5 passer rating, and forced eight punts.
Over the last five-plus NFL seasons, when a visiting team goes into the opponent’s den and gives up exactly 21 points, they’d posted a 21-12 record (.636 winning percentage) through last weekend. While imperfect — and certainly guilty of too many committing knucklehead penalties — the Rams defense wasn’t the culprit here.
Really, this winnable game became an opportunity lost for the same reasons that usually blow up the Rams’ unsteady bandwagon: excessive penalties, an unimaginative and clumsy passing offense, and an incomprehensible third-down futility that’s reached historically low levels.
The Rams were penalized 12 times for 93 yards. I had a feeling this could happen; on Friday, I wrote a warning about the potentially hazardous impact of too many penalties. But this team’s penalty epidemic has been a major detriment since Fisher became coach in 2012. The Rams have been hit with the most penalties (444) in the league since 2012, and the lapses in discipline are often costly.
This was certainly true in Sunday’s game. Of Minnesota’s 21 first downs, six came via Rams penalties. On the two early possessions that produced a 10-0 lead, the Vikings took advantage of four St. Louis penalties. And if you think a high penalty count isn’t a factor in losing football games, I don’t know what to tell you. Well, actually I do. When the Rams have been assessed with at least 10 penalties in a game with Fisher as coach, their record is 3-9-1. And when Rams have been hit with at least 12 penalties in a game under Fisher, they’re 1-6-1.
The offense continues to sputter. The Rams had 14 possessions in Sunday’s defeat, and five of the 14 were three-and-out drives. That makes 27 three-and-outs in 98 possessions this series, a rate (27.5%) that puts them bear the bottom of the NFL. These three-and-outs are killers for obvious reasons — with one being that it gives Gurley fewer opportunities to break off a big run. These aborted drives also put more of a burden on the Rams defense.
The Rams have scored 18 points or fewer in nearly half (46.4%) of Fisher’s 56 games as head coach. And when they max out at 18 points in a game during Fisher’s term, the Rams’ record is 4-22. This is something I’ve been yapping about for quite some time now; you can’t expect to string together wins with an offense that’s so limited in points production. Yeah, you can win games if Gurley is rushing for 140 yards and breaking the opponents’ backs with long runs — especially if the Rams defense is partnering with Gurley to pound the other side with sacks, pressures, negative plays and takeaways. But we have to be realistic about this; it can’t (and won’t) happen in every game. The Rams need to make more plays — first downs and touchdowns — to win more consistently.
The Rams scored one touchdown on their 15 series against Minnesota. Field goals are a nice consolation but can’t match the impact of touchdowns. Through their first eight games, the Rams’ offense has scored 14 touchdowns on 98 possessions for a TD success rate of 14.2 percent. That touchdown efficiency puts the Rams at No. 30 in the NFL rankings.
Not only that, but a Rams’ offense hasn’t scored touchdowns at a lower rate since the 2011 Rams managed a touchdown on only 8.2 percent of their possessions.
So halfway through the 2015 season — and granted, this could improve — this is Fisher’s worst offense for scoring touchdowns since he moved in at Rams Park.
Sunday in Minnesota, the Rams’ followed up on their hopeful 15-point first half by scoring only three more points and accumulating a mere 102 yards of offense over their final eight possessions. Quarterback Nick Foles had only 29 net passing yards after halftime.
After being up 15-10 at the half, and having a chance to expand on their lead, the Rams went flat — with only 48 yards (and five punts) on their first five possessions of the second half.
The Rams intercepted a pass on Minnesota’s first possession of the third quarter — and the Rams offense came onto the field after the takeaway, lost 10 yards, and punted.
In their one shot in overtime, the Rams lost six yards and punted; Minnesota promptly moved in for the winning field goal.
It was another depressing display, but we shouldn’t be surprised by it. The Rams’ offense is averaging 17 points per game this season; only San Francisco has done worse.
This is Fisher’s fourth season here, and he’s never had an offense average more than 17.4 points per game (that, in 2013.) Fisher’s first offense, back in 2012, was also his lowest-scoring offense, averaging 14.8 points per contest. Four years into his program, Fisher’s offense has increased its scoring average by a little more than two points per game. The progress is negligible.
Obviously, the terrible failure to move the chains on third down is paramount in the struggles. After converting only 2 of 16 against the Vikings, the Rams’ third-down success rate for the 2015 slipped to 23.7 percent. This is really awful.
So awful that I went back through the STATS LLC research bank and couldn’t find an NFL offense that had a poorer third-down rate in a season. I had to stop at 1972, because that was the first year STATS tracked the third-down percentages. Among the more recent seasons only San Francisco — 24 percent in 2005 was close — to the Rams’ current futility.
Foles is hardly the only problem on third down. There’s little evidence of creative strategy. The receivers don’t get open. Dropped passes are dropped opportunities. There are too many breakdowns in pass protection.
Statistically Foles is as sorry as any quarterback in the league in third-down passing, completing only 46.4 percent, averaging a dinky 5.31 yards per attempt, and bogged down in a 62.9 passer rating. Only 22.6 percent of his third-down throws have picked up a first down.
(And forget third downs for a moment; Foles had a chance to give the Rams a huge lift early in Sunday’s game, but failed to spot a streaking Kenny Britt downfield to make connections on a likely home-run pass. Foles and the Rams can’t miss on easy chances for big plays. They just can’t.)
And as we mentioned earlier, the Rams simply make themselves easy to defend by declining to utilize the middle of the field when they sling the football. (I’ll post updated numbers on that on Monday.) It makes no sense.
Even with all of the inefficiencies and screw-ups, the Rams were right there on Sunday — having a chance to claim a victory, and I suppose we can draw some hope and optimism from that. But we can’t can’t gloss over the potential repercussions of the Rams’ inability to capture a winnable game. According the site FiveThirtyEight.com, the Rams had a 26 percent chance of making the NFC playoffs before their game with the Vikings. And the loss left them with a 20 percent chance of qualifying for the NFC tournament.
Here’s a rundown of the positioning for the two NFC wild-card spots:
Green Bay and Minnesota are tied for the NFC North lead at 6-2. One will win the division; the other will be relegated to the wild-card pool.
Atlanta is second in the NFC South at 6-3.
St. Louis and Seattle are tied for second in the NFC West at 4-4.
Philadelphia is second in the NFC East at 4-4.
The Rams have to make their move, make up ground, and the upcoming schedule will give them a chance to climb back. But we waste a lot of time talking about hypothetical victories. The truth is, the Rams won’t be able to make a serious run for a playoff ticket unless they clean up their penalty problems, increase their woeful performance on third down, and begin scoring more touchdowns. The Rams are a pretty good team that has to solve some pretty bad problems.
znModeratorznModeratorHe is. IMO? Basically the same reasons as Foles. OL not holding up, out of sync for various reasons, he’s not confident in the offense and is pressing.
I picked quite a week to say that. I just pulled on the Eagles/Dallas game, and Bradford looks good. Throwing those quick release lasers into tight spaces. So he decides to look good on a day when Foles looked bad for quite a few stretches.
znModeratorVikings boot Rams 21-18 in overtime
Jim Thomas
MINNEAPOLIS • This was the chance for the Rams to make a statement. Show that they were capable of stacking wins together. Show they were a maturing, improving team by winning a key November game on the road against a good opponent.
“I’m not into making statements,” coach Jeff Fisher said afterwards. “I’m just into winning games.”
Alas, the Rams did neither Sunday at TCF Bank Stadium. They had several chances to pull out a victory that would’ve put them at 5-3 — or two games above .500 in November for the first time since 2003.
Instead, they fell to 4-4, losing 21-18 to Minnesota on Blair Walsh’s 40-yard field goal with 9 minutes 20 seconds left in overtime.
There was controversy when a sliding Vikings quarterback Teddy Bridgewater was knocked out of the game with a concussion after taking a forearm to the head by Rams nickel back Lamarcus Joyner, who was sliding to prevent contact.
An upset Vikings coach Mike Zimmer called it a cheap shot.
“I would say if we were out on the street, we probably would have had a fight (in response to the play),” Zimmer said.
Joyner, who was flagged for unnecessary roughness on the play, passionately defended himself afterwards.
“I know that guy,” Joyner said. “I grew up across the railroad tracks from him (in Miami). My mom knows his mom. My dad knows his mom. I would never intentionally do a dirty play like that on Teddy Bridgewater.”
But speaking of controversy, let the second-guessing begin on a couple of coaching decisions by Fisher.
First and foremost was the decision to go for 2-points after the Rams scored their one and only touchdown late in the first quarter. Running back Todd Gurley was stopped short of the goal line on the 2-point conversion attempt, so the score at that point was 10-6 Minnesota.
“I felt like we were gonna need as many scoring opportunities as we possibly can,” Fisher said. “And it was indicative of how the wind was. I liked what we had up, and I let the coaches know after I observed the wind.
“It’s a long kick, and (the wind) was pushing the ball around. Whether it worked out or not, I would do it again.”
There was a swirling 18 mph wind, and the new extra-point rule means it’s a 33-yard kick instead of a 20-yarder. Even so, kicker Greg Zuerlein was making kicks from 45 yards into the wind during pre-game warmup.
Obviously, it’s difficult to predict how the game would’ve played out had the Rams simply kicked the extra point there. But in a game that was tied 18-18 at the end of regulation, it was a point that could’ve come in handy.
Then came some conservative play-calling late in the fourth quarter. On a day when Minnesota was stacking the box defensively against Gurley and running room was tough to come by, the Rams sent Gurley up the middle on third-and-11 from the Minnesota 34.
He gained four yards, and then with the wind at his back Zuerlein’s field goal attempt missed wide right from 48 yards with 1 minute 42 seconds to play.
“Big picture, we felt confident defensively that we could get the ball back and have a chance perhaps to win the game in regulation,” Fisher said, when asked why he didn’t throw a pass on third down. “And then we missed the kick.”
Zuerlein did get another crack, and this time his 53-yard field goal as time expired with the wind at his back sent the game into regulation tied at 18-18.
Minnesota won the coin toss in overtime, but instead of taking the ball decided to take the wind. Fisher said he wasn’t expecting that, but it obviously worked out for the Vikings.
Starting overtime at their 20 after the kickoff resulted in a touchback, the Rams lost six yards in three plays. Punter Johnny Hekker knocked the stuffing out of the ball, kicking 63 yards into the wind. But this time, the Rams’ normally strong punt coverage team couldn’t get Vikings return man Marcus Sherels down until he had tight-roped the right sideline for 26 yards to the Minnesota 49.
(Officials missed an illegal block into the back of Rams coverage man Cory Harkey on the play.)
“It was not easy to punt into the wind, and both teams showed that,” Fisher said. “But Johnny hit a great ball, he really hit a tight spiral that pierced the wind. We could’ve flipped the field and we just didn’t get the tackle made.”
With Bridgewater out of the game, the Rams knew the Vikings wouldn’t pass much with backup and former Ram Shaun Hill replacing him at quarterback. Nonetheless, they couldn’t prevent Peterson, who finished with 125 yards on 29 carries, from running the Vikings into field goal range.
Peterson’s 11-yard run on third-and-1 from the St. Louis 42 put the Vikings into range. After three more runs gained nine yards, Walsh blasted the 40-yarder through the uprights — with the wind at his back — giving the Vikings (6-2) their fourth consecutive victory.
“I’m disappointed for our guys,” Fisher said. “Losses are one thing; to overcome losses are another. You know you have your work cut out coming back off these, so we definitely have our work cut out this week. But I’ve got a lot of respect and confidence in our guys that we’ll bounce right back.”
Gurley held under 100 yards for the first time as an NFL starter, finishing with 89 yards on 24 carries and a touchdown. Tavon Austin was effective on the end-around with 66 yards on eight carries. But once again, the Rams couldn’t get much going in the passing game, with Nick Foles completing 18 of 33 passes for 168 yards and a 68.8 passer rating.
Zuerlein kicked four field goals, all when he had the wind at his back, including a franchise-record 61-yarder early in the second quarter.
znModeratorMike Zimmer calls out Rams DC Gregg Williams after hit on QB Bridgewater
Ben Goessling
ESPN.comMINNEAPOLIS — Vikings coach Mike Zimmer did little to hide his feelings about the Rams’ defensive style of play Sunday, calling the hit that knocked quarterback Teddy Bridgewater out of the game a cheap shot in his postgame news conference.
Zimmer said the Rams went too far and pointed the finger at defensive coordinator Gregg Williams.
“I agree that it was a cheap shot,” Zimmer said on KFAN-FM, adding, “[Gregg Williams’] defenses are all like that.”
Bridgewater left the game with a concussion when St. Louis cornerback Lamarcus Joyner hit him in the fourth quarter, and he will have to clear the NFL’s concussion protocol to return for next Sunday’s game against the Oakland Raiders. Bridgewater appeared to be in good spirits in the locker room after Minnesota’s 21-18 win, but he had to be replaced by Shaun Hill. After the Vikings won the game in overtime, Zimmer kept walking as he quickly shook Rams coach Jeff Fisher’s hand.
“I didn’t have much to say to him,” Zimmer said in his postgame news conference. Then, when asked about the response of his players to the hit, the coach said, “If we were out in the street, we probably would’ve had a fight.”
Asked about the postgame handshake, Fisher said, “It was really quick, yeah. We’re not out to hurt anybody. It’s unfortunate. Teddy is playing really well, and Shaun came in and found a way to win a game for them. But it’s just part of the game. I’m disappointed that he went out, and I hope that he returns to play as soon as he can.”
Joyner said he did not try to hurt Bridgewater, adding: “I know that guy. I grew up across the railroad tracks from him. My mom knows his mom. My dad knows his mom. I would never intentionally do a dirty play like that on Teddy Bridgewater.
“It was a bam-bam play. He’s a taller stature guy compared to me, I did not know he was fixing to slide. When I launched, he slid and we connected. If I could take it back, personally, I will take it back because I’m not a dirty player. I wouldn’t want to take joy from his mom or his team. So was it intentional? Not at all. I can’t fix the problem with what’s going on and how they feel, but how I feel inside is not good.”
“
If we were out in the street, we probably would’ve had a fight.”- Vikings coach Mike Zimmer on his players’ reaction to the Rams’ hit on Teddy Bridgewater
A league source told ESPN.com Bridgewater was feeling good after the game, adding the quarterback was out to dinner with people close to him.On the series before Bridgewater was injured, he also took a low hit from Rams defensive end William Hayes, who was not called for a penalty because Bridgewater was out of the pocket when Hayes hit him.
Williams’ name already draws a strong reaction in Minnesota stemming from his role in the New Orleans Saints’ “Bountygate” scandal, which peaked in the 2010 NFC Championship Game when Saints players angered the Vikings with a number of low hits on quarterback Brett Favre. The game helped trigger an NFL investigation into the Saints’ conduct, and Williams was suspended for the 2012 NFL season.
Asked if the Rams were targeting Bridgewater on Sunday, Zimmer said: “I don’t know about that. I do know there is a history there with their defensive coordinator. I’ll leave it at that.
znModeratorKenny Britt up, D-line and Jeff Fisher down in Rams’ loss
Nick Wagoner
MINNEAPOLIS — A look at St. Louis Rams players who were “up” and those who were “down” in Sunday’s 21-18 loss against the Minnesota Vikings:
UP
Tavon Austin: Austin had an important miscue in the second half when he dropped a deep ball that could have gone for a big gain, though it was underthrown. But he also was one of only two guys keeping the Rams in it in the first half. He finished with eight carries for 66 yards and four catches for 15 more yards, one of the few consistent sources of production for the offense.
Kenny Britt: The other player who was able to produce, he finished with three catches for 87 yards, including a 55-yard grab to jump-start the offense in the second half. Britt was also wide open on the game’s first offensive play but his quarterback didn’t throw it to him. The Rams need more from all of their receivers, but at least Austin and Britt showed up against the Vikings.
DOWN
Nick Foles: It should tell you all you need to know about what Minnesota thinks of Foles’ ability to win a game that they took the wind instead of the ball to open overtime. Likewise, the Rams had no intention of throwing the ball down the field until third down of their lone overtime possession, and by then it was third-and-16. Foles also didn’t let it fly to Britt on the game’s first play for a potential touchdown. He didn’t turn it over, which is a positive, but he mostly struggled to offer the Rams some much-needed offensive variety to help open things up for running back Todd Gurley.
The defensive line: Even without starting ends Chris Long and Robert Quinn, the Rams line has the depth to make a difference but was mostly quiet for the day. They struggled to generate pressure and didn’t get to Teddy Bridgewater for a sack before he left with an injury. Worse, they were the main culprits of another penalty-plagued game. The Rams had 12 penalties for 87 yards, including five neutral-zone infractions on their front four.
Jeff Fisher: After the game, Fisher said he went for an early two-point conversion because “we were going to need as many scoring opportunities as we possibly can. Also, it’s indicative of how the wind was.” Well, the conversion failed and the Rams lost the game in overtime, but the explanation also didn’t make much sense considering that points were at a premium and kicker Greg Zuerlein said afterward that he felt comfortable kicking into the wind from 45 to 48 yards during warm-ups. Combine decisions like that with the penalty issue that perpetually plagues Fisher’s teams, and he lands here.
znModeratorGoing for 2 or kicking for 1 is an absolute coin flip, especially early in the game. The kick is ~94%. The try for 2 is ~44%. If you did it 12 and a third times, kicking nets you 1 point. Pitt does it all time or close to all the time.
Yeah I had no problem when that was called.
What they found out during the game is that that D was prepared for everything Gurley did, including the 2 pointer.
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znModeratorMike Zimmer isn’t pleased with the Rams
Mike Florio
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/%5B/quote%5D
Vikings coach Mike Zimmer’s post-game press conference after Sunday’s win over the Rams started with a backhanded remark. And then it continued with a series of uppercuts.
Zimmer started his remarks by pointing out that the Vikings played “clean” on their side of the ball, an obvious slap at the elbow applied by Rams cornerback Lamarcus Joyner to the head of Vikings quarterback Teddy Bridgewater. Zimmer then became more direct.
Zimmer pointed to the history of Rams defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, who was suspended for a year due to the New Orleans bounty program that he initiated and maintained. The bounty scandal came to a head against the Vikings in the 2009 NFC title game, during which the Saints bruised and battered former Vikings quarterback Brett Favre.
Zimmer also said, “If we were on the street, we probably would have had a fight.”
Indeed, it almost looked like Zimmer was ready to throw down his headset and battery pack and mix it up after Joyner knocked Bridgewater out of the game. Zimmer called the blow a “cheap shot” in his press conference.
Bridgewater, who was knocked out for several seconds after the elbow hit his head and his head hit the ground, has a concussion. He’ll have to receive clearance from an independent neurologist to play at Oakland next week.
znModeratorI don’t think Joyner intended to hurt him….that was actually kind of a freak thing. I do though think he tried to get away with looking like he didn’t intend to hit him. Though, I think it’s pretty obvious he went for a little contact. I doubt that’s coached. Zimmer however openly said it was dirty and mentioned (or kind of pointed to) bountygate.
znModeratorI’ll take a winning record and hope.
That’s more or less what I always expected this year. I never thought about the playoffs, myself. To me, the idea of a team with an OL that young and inexperienced in the playoffs? It didn’t seem likely.
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znModeratorThey need a song.
How about this.
We trade yards for points
But we’ll pop you jointsI think it’s catchy.
znModeratorInjuries are a problem if they either take out a key player or mess with a unit.
The OL: 2 injuries so far. Saffold and Hav.
On paper anyway that’s not enough to demolish the OL. It could still function like that.
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znModeratorNotice that 3 of the 5 are in the NFC west.
November 8, 2015 at 9:37 am in reply to: catch percentage, drops, and other bad things from the dark side #33729znModeratorIf it were last year’s numbers this year….
There would be 6 drops by WRs/TEs not 10.
60.8% of passes would be caught not 53.5%.
Mighta made some difference on some 3rd downs, leading to more opportunities.
In fact if they had last year’s third down conversion rate this year, it would be 35.42% instead of 25.88%. Which while still low, is at least not dead last (like this year). (25.88%, btw, is the lowest 3rd down conversion rate since Arizona in 2012 and before that, Buffalo in 2009).
And personally I don’t think it’s just Foles. Nor do I think it’s just the receivers. I think a lot of it is the Baby OL. My bet is there’s certain things they’re not even trying with this OL, until it stabilizes. So that alone cuts down on what they do.
znModeratorconsider how non-insecure he has to be to do that
Have to say I’m impressed by the amount of skill required to sleuth out that silver lining.
So…over there, where you are, you know, on the dark side? Do they have pie? Cause over here, we have pie.
znModeratorRams at Vikings: Seven for Sunday
Jim Thomas
Both teams have defensive-oriented head coaches: Jeff Fisher of the Rams and Mike Zimmer of the Vikings. Both teams are built on strong running games with marquee backs: Adrian Peterson of Minnesota and Todd Gurley of St. Louis. Both teams have top 10 defenses: The Rams are sixth in total defense; the Vikings seventh. Neither team does much with the forward pass, with the Rams ranked 32nd and the Vikings 30th in passing offense. And both are trying to work their way into the NFC playoff picture.
FLAG FOOTBALL
In what figures to be a close game, the team that makes the fewest mistakes could come out the winner. And if that’s the case, give the edge to Minnesota — at least in the area of penalties. Minnesota is the NFL’s least-penalized team this season, both in terms of penalties assessed (39) and penalty yards (340). Zimmer’s squad was among the league’s least-penalized teams last year as well. Although the Rams are doing better in this area this year, they have totaled 21 penalties for 168 yards the past two Sundays.THE GREAT APPeterson logged his third 100-yard rushing game of the season last week in Chicago, and is well on his way to a 1,500-yard season at age 30. Matt Asiata frequently replaces Peterson on third down, and Jerick McKinnon occasionally will spell him in the base offense. But Peterson remains the man who makes the Minnesota offense run; he’s still a big play waiting to happen. Realistically speaking, the Rams hope to contain him; they’re not going to shut him down.
TEDDY’S TIME
So far, QB Teddy Bridgewater hasn’t made that second-year leap as was hoped for by the Vikings. In fact, his statistics are very similar to what he posted last year as a rookie. He doesn’t have ideal arm strength, but is very accurate. He is poised and patient in the pocket, far beyond his experience level in the NFL. He’s not big on scrambling, but is effective when using his legs. More caretaker than playmaker at this point, Bridgewater might have gained confidence with his fourth-quarter comeback vs. Chicago.
DIGGS EMERGES
Speedster Mike Wallace leads the Vikings with 26 catches, but is averaging only 11.2 yards per catch and hasn’t provided the big plays the team hoped for when they obtained him in a trade with Miami in March. Another speedster, Cordarrelle Patterson, has almost fallen off the depth chart with only two catches (for 10 yards) this season. But Stefon Diggs has saved the passing game. After being inactive for the first three games, he has 25 catches for 419 yards in four contests. He’s a polished route runner for a rookie.
PASS-RUSH TANDEM
Overall, the Vikings are in the middle of the road when it comes to rushing the passer. But they have an effective, if unheralded, tandem in DE Everson Griffen and DT Tom Johnson. Griffen and Johnson have combined for 25 sacks since the start of the 2014 season — that’s the fifth-highest total for an end-tackle tandem in the league over that span. The Rams’ duo of DE Robert Quinn and DT Aaron Donald is tied for second in that time period, with 29 sacks. Griffen has been playing with a painful neck injury.
LINEBACKER ISSUES
While the Rams are banged up at defensive end, the Vikings have health concerns at linebacker — the strongest unit on their squad. Middle ’backer Eric Kendricks, who’s tied for second on the team in tackles (50), second in sacks (four), and second in tackles for loss (six), is out because of injured ribs. Strong side LB Anthony Barr, another of the team’s top defenders, is questionable (back issue). In part because of the talent at linebacker, this is a fast-flowing defense.
znModeratorconsider how non-insecure he has to be to do that
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