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znModeratorhe basically put up elite running back type numbers in the short shuttle and 3 cone.
That’s interesting.
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znModeratorbut like you said, he hasn’t had a lot of snaps. and isn’t the fine tuned passer that goff is. but will that matter in an offense that features a lot of todd gurley anyway?
Personally? Yes I think passing matters. I don’t think the Rams intend to be a run-heavy team. I think they intend to be a more balanced team, and in this day and age, balanced doesn’t meant 50/50…it means something more like 52-6 P/48-44 R…that kind of range.
I don’t think that it’s passing isn’t as important. I just think that this year, the best qbs available have some developmental aspects in their make-up, so AT FIRST you can’t throw with them as much as you would like to.
But, since I see this as a 12-15 year starter pick and not as a 2016 season pick, starting out slowly is fine with me. I just simply never believe the guys who say Fisher wouldn’t pass much even if he had a good veteran passer. No, I think he doesn’t pass as much when he has Davis, Keenum, and Hill. Give him a matured Goff or Wentz and my take is they would pass the ball more than Seattle and Carolina currently do.
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April 15, 2016 at 10:43 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42045znModeratorI mean look at Romo!
But, Romo’s hurt a lot.
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znModeratorso this guy is pretty raw. lots of potential still in him. hasn’t had nearly the amount of reps that goff has had.
Yes. It’s a pick your poison situation. Wentz/Goff is very raw, though he played in a pro offense that required pre-snap reads and audibles (which essentially puts him ahead of where Bradford was coming out, at least in those specific terms). Goff/Wentz, on the other hand, has much more experience and is the more fine-tuned passer, but he played in a spread and so needs to actually learn a lot of the relevant pro techniques and concepts. He also faced a higher level of competition.
Which is probably why Keenum is going to play at least a few games to start the season, I bet.
BUT I believe everyone who says they are both top candidates. Not Luck, but next tier down. I’ve seen more than once where some writers are saying pro personnel people rate them both up there with—if not a few degrees better than—Winston and Mariota.
znModeratorI think people who are suggesting that this is owner-dictated or a publicity stunt are being lazy or sensationalists. It makes a good sound bite, but this is simply in my opinion the next step in the evolution of the Rams team that has been building for four years. The lost picks will be long forgotten in two years, but the prospect of a young, competent NFL QB far outweighs the deficit created by the lost picks. This was a needed football move, and I believe it will be a turning point in this franchise that has needed this piece of the puzzle for 12 years.
I see that the non-Rams fans are dominating this thread with their pro-Oakland and pro-Seattle anti-football hater posts. But hey they have a right to their beliefs too, I guess.
As it happens, though, being an actual genuine Rams fan and a true-hearted follower of football in general, I agree with you.
I assume they believe they had one significant missing piece and so took advantage of a rare opportunity to add that piece.
It looks opportunistic to me. And if they were thinking we just lack one key piece, I agree with them. I thought all they needed to win last year was a consistently decent starting caliber qb. So I see it as a pure football move.
Not that history guarantees anything, but going back from 2013 (which is far enough back to judge the players now) to 1970, 20 qbs have been taken with the 1st pick. Of those, depending on how you rate Vick, 16 or 17 were hits, which is 80-85%. That’s good odds.
Personally I like the idea that they have a qb for the next decade and a half. I think back to the 2004 draft, where Eli, Rivers, and Roethlisberger all went in the 1st round. They have been in it, with some ups and downs, ever since. That’s enviable. Now I don’t have to envy it.
In terms of building the team, IMO, for the most part, they’ve done that. They have the defense and arguably the OL. They have talent on offense in Gurley and Tavon. They need to upgrade WR, depending on who comes back from injuries, but still, having that #1 pick qb makes all the difference.
In terms of how good Wentz/Goff or Goff/Wentz can be, my vote is, good enough. First, I have argued before that I like it better when a team adds a qb to a more established squad (the Flacco model) rather than try and build around a young qb (the Bradford model). So I like this. I also don’t think either qb needs to be elite. That’s at least partly because I think “elite” really refers to rare animals—Manning in his prime, Brady (even Rodgers and Brees, who push the border on this, don’t fully make it over the line for me). So I think the more realistic approach is to get and rely on a good to very good qb in the Flacco/Eli class.
You can win in the NFL with a play action offense complementing a top defense. That works even better if your qb is a top echelon talent. So imagine this–what if the football gods just let me pick any currently active qb for the 2017 Rams. That’s assuming the OL stabilizes and the defenses stays good. Imagine them, then, with guys like Roethlisberger, Flacco, Eli, Rivers, Palmer, Dalton, Newton, Stafford, Cutler (circa 2015), or Ryan. I would predict they would be a playoff team.
Well I think these 2 guys promise to be that caliber. In that range. So I am fine with what they’re doing.
Imagine a play action/defensive team that is good on 3rd down and in the redzone. And sometime across the next 12-15 years of WhichEver QB’s Rams Career, I would imagine they would add top receivers somehow too.
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April 15, 2016 at 8:00 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42026znModeratorWho’s the Top QB in the 2016 NFL Draft? | Move the Sticks | NFL
znModeratorRams’ top-secret QB tour bred blockbuster trade for No. 1 pick
Michael Silver
Jeff Fisher and Les Snead arrived in Berkeley on a cloudy February morning, and as soon as quarterback Jared Goff began his private workout at California Memorial Stadium — as if on cue — the rain came pouring down like the Andy Dufresne escape scene in “Shawshank Redemption.”
By the end of the former Cal star’s sublime throwing session, all had become clear for the two men deciding the immediate fate of the newly rechristened Los Angeles Rams. And it was that clarity of purpose which, two months later, would trigger the blockbuster trade that shook up the 2016 draft and brought some serious gridiron glitz to Tinseltown.
Having flown to Northern California straight from Fargo, North Dakota — where they’d watched the 2016 draft’s other top quarterbacking prospect, ex-North Dakota State passer Carson Wentz, perform impressively in a similar session — Fisher, the Rams’ veteran head coach, and Snead, the team’s fifth-year general manager, were completing the second and final stop of their under-the-radar, Find a Franchise Quarterback Tour.
They weren’t prepared for the inclement weather, but they weren’t complaining, either. After all, one of the few raps against Goff was his perceived inability to throw a wet ball, a stigma that began early in his freshman season in 2013, when he performed so miserably on a rainy afternoon at Oregon that he was pulled from the game in the first quarter.
Even as Fisher vainly attempted to shield the footballs under his light jacket before handing them to Goff, he understood the beauty of the moment: If throwing a slippery ball were still a legitimate weakness, Goff would surely be exposed.
Instead, as if channeling the artistry of dreadlocked Cal alum Adam Duritz, Goff summoned a performance so tremendous, he might as well have crooned, “I am the Rain King!”
Goff, according to one witness, flat out “ripped it” while throwing to former Cal teammates Trevor Davis and Maurice Harris. “The ball never hit the ground,” said another person who attended the session.
“It was a great opportunity to see him throw a wet ball,” Fisher recalled Thursday morning, a couple of hours after the announcement of a pricey trade with the Tennessee Titans that put the Rams on the clock with the No. 1 overall pick. “We were just going through the process, and he made all the throws, and he was outstanding.”
Whether the Rams use the No. 1 overall selection on Goff, as I believe they will, or call Wentz to the podium in Chicago on April 28, Fisher and Snead already have made one thing obvious: After methodically building a talented defense, a process fueled by the bounty they acquired in their own blockbuster pre-draft trade four years ago, and last year bolstering the running game by selecting star halfback Todd Gurley and a slew of offensive linemen, the Rams can no longer get by with mediocrity at the game’s pivotal position.
Speaking of which: With records of 7-8-1, 7-9, 6-10 and 7-9 during their four years in St. Louis, the newly relocated coach and GM understand that they’ll have to step up it up to stay employed in Southern California beyond this season.
So Fisher and Snead, in a strategy they employed as far back as their first season in St. Louis, hit the road and got an up-close-and-personal view of what was out there. And when they loved what they saw in Fargo and Berkeley, they set their sights on the top of the draft.
With the 15th overall selection, Fisher and Snead knew it wouldn’t be easy. Not since 1984 had a team (the Patriots, who came up from 16th to land receiver Irving Fryar) moved up so far to land the first pick. But the Rams had an important chip: an extra second-round pick in 2016, obtained in last year’s trade with the Eagles that sent oft-injured incumbent quarterback Sam Bradford to Philly for Nick Foles. And while Foles’ stint as the Rams’ starting quarterback had been short and inglorious — ultimately, he was supplanted by Case Keenum, who technically still resides atop the L.A. depth chart — that extra second-rounder turned out to be a godsend.
As fate would have it, the Rams’ ownership of that pick — and the Eagles’ lack thereof — may have allowed L.A. to outjockey the Eagles for the Titans’ top pick. The Eagles, according to sources, have a high degree of interest in both quarterbacks, particularly Goff, and were also engaged in talks to trade up in the draft.
Meanwhile the Browns, who hold the No. 2 overall selection, may lose out on the quarterback they covet most — and, in response, might try to trade down to a team interested in acquiring the passer the Rams pass over.
Again, this intriguing scenario is layered with the seeds of past developments: Last March, before trading Bradford to the Eagles, the Rams — according to a high-ranking team source — believed they had a deal in place to send him to Cleveland for a first-round pick, but the Browns backed out the following morning.
Throw in the fact that Fisher closed the deal for the first overall pick with the franchise that employed him as head coach for 17 seasons, and there have been a whole lot of dramatic arcs to this story. And make no mistake: He and Snead are intent on milking the drama for all its worth between now and draft night, with organizational sources sending out conflicting reports of which quarterback the Rams prefer to numerous reporters, a process likely to continue right up until the moment when the Rams are officially on the clock.
Regardless of the noise, Fisher and Snead will get their man — and their immediate futures will likely depend on the young quarterback’s aptitude. For what it’s worth, their bosses (Rams owner Stan Kroenke and COO Kevin Demoff) were absolutely on board with the trade. As one high-ranking Rams official put it in an internal conversation, “We can go with Case Keenum and [second-year backup] Sean Mannion, and if everything breaks right, we can probably be a wild-card team. But we’re not chasing wild cards. We want to go after championships.”
To get to that level, a young man will have to guide them — and something Fisher and Snead saw in Fargo and/or Berkeley two months ago convinced them that there’s at least one quarterback in this draft who can transform their team in a hurry.
“We’re not looking over our shoulders here,” Fisher told me Thursday. “We’re planning for the future, and we’re building this team, and this is the next step. Last year we drafted Todd Gurley, and we drafted [four] offensive linemen. This year, we know what we want, and we’re going after it.”
Rain or shine.
April 15, 2016 at 7:13 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42010znModeratorI think they take Goff.
I just poured a bunch of Wentz stuff into the thread. He’s my favorite, but I;m not “debating” it, plus I have nothing against Goff—it’s just that some Wentz stuff just now caught my eye. People should add Goff stuff too, as will I whenever I run across it, which ought to be frequently.
April 15, 2016 at 7:06 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42009znModeratorPro Football Focus
From a 3-15 Mock in which Chris Collinsworth predicted the 4/14 trade
1. Los Angeles Rams (Trade from Tennessee) Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State
While I’m only guessing that the team will be Los Angeles that trades up with Tennessee to obtain the No. 1 pick, I do believe two quarterbacks will go 1-2 in this draft. Every year the quarterbacks slowly rise to the top of the draft board. Are they the two best players in the draft class? Probably not, but as a GM you simply can’t take the chance that one of them becomes the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady while playing for another team. Jared Goff is the better QB today, but teams won’t be able to pass on the physical traits that Carson Wentz brings to the table. Somebody will move ahead of Cleveland and get him.
Wentz is a powerful-looking guy. His size makes an impression, but his ability to run is even more impressive. He appears to have a top-15 NFL arm. Wentz might not be as fast, powerful or athletic as Cam Newton, but at 6-foot-5 and 237 pounds, Cam is not an unfair comparison for him. Wentz has a lot to learn making the huge jump from North Dakota State to the NFL, but his talent is undeniable. His arm strength and athleticism allows him to make the off-balance throws necessary in the NFL. I worry about his release quickness — there may be a little loop in his throwing motion — but Wentz possesses too many positives to not be taken at No. 1
April 15, 2016 at 6:48 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42007znModeratorCarson Wentz over Jared Goff for Browns at No. 2, experts at NFL Combine say
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/browns_carson_wentz_jared_goff.html
INDIANAPOLIS — The Browns should draft Carson Wentz over Jared Goff at No. 2, a handful of NFL draft experts at the NFL Combine told cleveland.com Saturday.
“I would take Carson Wentz, especially since I know the coaching staff,” said noted draft expert Greg Cosell of NFL Films.
Cosell said the veteran, quarterback-savvy Browns staff would know how to develop a small-school prospect like Wentz, who played at FCS school North Dakota State. What’s more, he’s started only 23 games, going 20-3. The Browns offensive coaches have tutored the likes of Kurt Warner, Carson Palmer, Joe Flacco, Andrew Luck and Andy Dalton.
“They have Hue Jackson, Pep Hamilton, Al Saunders and Kirby Wilson,” said Cosell. “They have coaches who have been in the NFL for a long time and I think that’s absolutely critical.”
Like Warner, an NFL Network analyst, Cosell believes that Wentz won the quarterback workouts Saturday, beating out Cal’s Goff, Memphis’ Paxton Lynch and Michigan State’s Connor Cook, a native of Hinckley, Ohio.
Wentz finished tied for second in the 40 with a 4.77, tied for second in the broad jump and finished third in the three-cone drill. He also displayed a strong arm, good footwork, nice touch on the shorter routes and a quick release.
“Hands down, Wentz (6-5 1/4 237) was the best quarterback in these workouts,” Cosell said. “Hands down he shone above everyone else.”
But Cosell relies on his extensive film study in grading the passers.
“Since I’ve watched both on tape, I’d say Wentz has high level traits, the kind of traits that make you think if he were to become what he could be that he’d be a top five kind of quarterback in the league,” Cosell said.
Kurt Warner says Carson Wentz ‘looked the best of all the quarterbacks’
Kurt Warner says Carson Wentz ‘looked the best of all the quarterbacks’
Wentz, whom the Browns are considering with their first-round pick, displayed the same things in drills that he did at the Senior Bowl and on tape: a strong arm, great footwork, a quick release and exceptional size.Like NFL Network’s Mike Mayock, Cosell believes that Goff (6-4, 215) might be more ready now, but that Wentz has more upside potential.
“Goff is a really refined player for a 21-year-old quarterback, really good pocket mechanics, really good feel for the pocket, does something that not even some pro quarterbacks do, which is he moves his feet with his eyes, which is a really refined trait for a young quarterback,” he said. “So Goff to me is more refined, but Wentz has the higher-level traits.
He said the fact Wentz played in a pro-style offense in college while the other played in a spread doesn’t push him over the top.
“I’m not a huge believer in that because I think you can teach guys,” he said. “It’s like receivers when you say they only ran three routes. I think if you coach guys well, if they have change of direction and good movement skills you can teach guys how to run the route tree. I think with a quarterback you can teach your offense.”
He added, “both guys from what I can gather have come across very well and are generally smart kids.”
One high level NFL talent evaluator who doesn’t need a quarterback but studied the current class said he’d go with Wentz because “he’s stronger, a good athlete, a good thrower, played in a pro offense and won national championships.”
One NFL offensive coach said, “all things being equal, go with the size.”
Still, another NFL offensive assistant said Goff has done it for longer and Wentz is coming out of nowhere. He’s leery. “No one heard of him until the Senior Bowl,” he said.
Before the workouts, NFL Network draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah said Wentz was his top QB. The session confirmed it.
“Everybody focuses on the level of competition, but to me I believe he’s the top quarterback in this draft class,” he said. “A lot of it is because of what he’s asked to do. He’s under center, he has a lot of control in that offense.”
Although Warner crowned Wentz winner of the day, he also likes Goff.
“Jared Goff, I don’t know if you see as much of what makes him a pro ready quarterback out here in combine drills,” he said. “It’s his speed inside the pocket, it’s movement, quick release, those two guys I thought looked very solid.
“That’s one thing that really impressed me with Jared Goff when I watched him on film — tremendous pocket awareness but the ability to move his hips and get the ball out quickly in that small, little box is impressive.”
As for Mayock, he seems to be favoring Goff for the Browns because he’s ready to step in now, and Wentz for the Cowboys at No. 4 where he can sit awhile behind Tony Romo.
“Now if (Wentz) had to go in and play this year, do I think he could take his lumps and do that? Yeah,” he said. “But I think the healthiest situation for that kid in a franchise is to give him a year behind an established starter, even in Cleveland.
“If Cleveland took him. Go to Cleveland, spend a year learning the system and learning what you’re doing and a year from now you’re the guy. I think that’s healthy.”
Why is Goff more ready now?
“The advantage Wentz has is he’s been under center,” he said. “He’s done a lot in the protections. You could see his footwork, it was good. The difference is he’s played 23 games and he’s done it at a lower level. I didn’t see the same pocket awareness.
“When I watch Goff I see a guy sliding, moving around in the pocket, going from one side of the field to the other making every throw. I don’t think Wentz is at that point yet as far as being quickly able to do that and I think he needs a lot more reps.”
Question is, where will he get them?
April 15, 2016 at 6:05 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42004znModeratorJared Goff vs. Carson Wentz: Who should Rams take with No. 1 draft pick?
On Thursday, the Los Angeles Rams sent shockwaves through the NFL by jumping from No. 15 in this month’s draft all the way up to No. 1. Of course, this move didn’t come without a price: The Rams sent the Titans two first-round picks, two second-rounders and two third-rounders over the next two drafts (in exchange for No. 1, No. 113 and No. 177 in this month’s event). But the trade puts the Rams in position to (presumably) draft a quarterback to build around as the franchise returns to L.A.
It appears that two signal callers have separated themselves from the pack: Cal’s Jared Goff and North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz. Saturday night at 8 p.m. ET, NFL Network will break down the biggest question heading into the 2016 draft with a special program, “Path to the Draft: Goff or Wentz?” But in the meantime, what do you think? Which of these two QBs should the Rams select at No. 1 overall?
Charley Casserly
Writer | NFL.comCarson Wentz has more long-term promise, but Jared Goff is the guy for L.A. in 2016
I like Carson Wentz over Jared Goff long term, but Goff is a better fit right now. And Los Angeles could indeed be a QB away from being a playoff team — the Rams have a good defense and a Pro Bowl RB in Todd Gurley. Goff has very good pocket presence — he sees things quickly and has a quick release. But he does not have a top arm.To be frank, though, I don’t think either one of these QBs is an elite prospect.
Daniel Jeremiah
Writer | NFL.comWentz is the superior prospect — in fact, he’s better than Blake Bortles was coming out of UCF
They should take Carson Wentz. He’s bigger, more athletic, has a stronger arm and gained experience in an NFL system while at North Dakota State. He’s proven to play his best in big moments, and he’s done nothing but win his entire athletic career.Wentz’s toughness, competitiveness and football intelligence are off the charts. He’s a better player than Blake Bortles was coming out of Central Florida.
Gil Brandt
Writer | NFL.comI have Wentz rated slightly higher, but I think Goff is a better fit in Los Angeles
In my rankings — which will be released on NFL.com on Monday — I have Carson Wentz one spot ahead of Jared Goff. But, if I were the Rams, I would go with Goff because of the fact the he was raised in California. He would be much more familiar with the difficulty of movement in Los Angeles, mainly traffic and the pace of living. Goff would have an easier time adapting to the high-intensity way of life in the L.A. area. Moving to California would be a culture shock for anybody who has lived their entire life in North Dakota.Lance Zierlein
Writer | NFL.comReturn to L.A. gives Rams more time to develop a QB — I’d bet on Wentz’s upside
If this were still the St. Louis Rams, I would probably say Jared Goff because they would need to win more immediately. However, in Los Angeles, the Rams should have a honeymoon period that allows them to bring Carson Wentz along with more patience.At the end of the day, I believe that Wentz has the potential to be a “face of the franchise” quarterback more than Goff.
Bucky Brooks
Writer | NFL.comGoff’s experience will allow him to be the Rams’ starter on Day 1
The Rams should take Jared Goff with the top pick. The Cal quarterback is the more polished and experienced player at the position. Goff enters the NFL with 1,500-plus pass attempts and 37 career college starts (compared to Wentz’s 612 attempts and 23 college starts), which makes him better prepared to step into the lineup as a Day 1 starter.From a physical standpoint, Goff doesn’t have the big arm or prototypical dimensions of Wentz, but he displays better footwork and poise in the pocket. He plays with his eyes and feet connected, while exhibiting good poise under duress. Goff’s ability to thrive within chaos sets him apart from others in the class and gives him the nod in this debate.
Considering Goff’s outstanding touch, timing and anticipation as a passer, the Rams finally have a chance to field an explosive offense with the potential to attack on the ground or through the air.
Chase Goodbread
Writer | NFL.comRams made a bold move with win-now intentions, so Goff has to be the pick
You don’t blow a hole in two drafts — as the L.A. Rams just did in moving up to No. 1 — to acquire a quarterback who might need a year or two to develop. That’s why the choice needs to be Jared Goff of Cal.While Carson Wentz’s offense at North Dakota State might have been more NFL-like, it’s a mistake to lump Cal’s “Bear Raid” offense in with other college spread offenses that translate poorly to the pros. Goff, with an experience edge over Wentz — and having played against a much higher level of competition in the Pac-12 — will be more ready to win games right off the bat.
Elliot Harrison
Writer | NFL.comWentz would seem to be a better fit in the Rams’ Todd Gurley-led offense
I’m thinking Carson Wentz. Unless the Rams view Jared Goff as a clearly superior quarterback to Wentz, I would go with the guy who has been under center more in his career if I were part of the Rams’ brass. Not because Goff can’t assimilate himself to pro sets outside of the spread and shotgun, but because the Rams’ best player is tailback Todd Gurley, who often operates out of a single-back set. The key to the Rams making big plays downfield this season is having success with play action to Gurley, and that is something — at least under center — that Wentz is more equipped to carry out at this stage.Charles Davis
Writer | NFL.comWentz will fit like a glove into into Jeff Fisher’s offense
I have had Jared Goff rated slightly higher than Carson Wentz throughout the run up to the draft. But when it comes to who should the Rams take with the No. 1 overall pick, I believe they should select Carson Wentz. To me, he would fit nicely with what Los Angeles wants to do on offense given head coach Jeff Fisher’s background — run the ball, hit big plays off of play action, and pair that philosophy with a stout defense already in place. Wentz’s background at North Dakota State saw him handling line calls, adjustments and audibles in the run and pass game, and operating a lot of offense from under center, in the pistol and shot gun. His ability to read fronts and control the run game would be valuable.As an added bonus, his athleticism and comfort running the ball will really come in handy. The possibility of his escaping out the backdoor will help tamp down pressure packages focused solely on stopping Pro Bowl RB Todd Gurley, and Wentz’s sturdy 6-foot-5, 237-pound frame allows him a great chance to hold up well as a runner.
Finally, with the heavy focus and commitment to running the football, the plan would be for Wentz to be able to throw the ball against easier coverages and in more favorable situations. That would allow him to break into and acclimate to the league quicker, as well as develop without being hit so often early in his career when trying to pass.
This formula worked well for Ben Roethlisberger and Russell Wilson as rookies. I think that Carson Wentz would find it agreeable, too
znModeratorWhat really bug me about the Mannion situation is the report I read saying he rarely practiced and usually ran the scout team. We know he got precious little playing time. Now Fish Snead are giving up on him?
Yeah he had a redshirt year, but when he was he going to get decent reps when they were busy bringing Foles up to speed on the offense last year?
They have already said that this year Mannion is competing for the #2 spot. Of course they said that before trading up for the 1. But either way it looks like they intended to give him more time this time.
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April 15, 2016 at 4:37 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #41998znModeratorBeen told multiple times that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff graded out higher for a number of teams than Mariota and Winston did last year.
— Rand Getlin (@Rand_Getlin) April 15, 2016
April 15, 2016 at 2:02 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #41993znModeratorhttp://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/carson-wentz?id=2555259
Recent Comps
So they have Wentz graded at 6.53 and Goff at 6.51–flip a coin as far as the “grade”. By way of comparison Winston was 6.7, Mariotta was 6.27, Bortles 6.2. They changed the way they grade players and what the scores mean after 2013 so these are all the “apples to apples” comparisons.
You want to say you don’t like trading lots of picks for a few, fine. But please don’t tell us that “there is no one as good as Winston or Mariotta in this draft–the scouting grades puts both Wentz and Goff a good deal ahead of Mariotta. If you want to look at small school comparisons for Wentz, Bortles at 6.2 and Garoppolo at 5.8 are the comps.
znModeratorBig trade doesn’t necessarily buy Jeff Fisher, Les Snead more time with Rams
Nick Wagoner
In making the blockbuster move all the way to the NFL draft’s top pick from their previous perch at No. 15 overall, Los Angeles Rams coach Jeff Fisher and general manager Les Snead already have a pretty good idea of what they’re getting in exchange.
For now, the answer is a quarterback — either Cal’s Jared Goff or North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz — with the first overall choice as well as fourth and sixth-round picks in this year’s draft. Their hope is that it will be a franchise quarterback capable of getting the Rams over the hump of mediocrity and into the postseason.
Conventional wisdom also suggests they may have bought themselves something else: time. That might not necessarily be the case, however.
Both Fisher and Snead are entering the last year of the original contracts they signed with the team in 2012. Although the Rams have had conversations with both about contract extensions, those haven’t been finalized yet. Even if they are, it’s clear from their bold trade that they know time is running low.
Whether the Rams ultimately draft Goff or Wentz, neither is considered the type of game changing quarterback capable of lighting it up from Day 1. It used to be standard operating procedure that such a trade would allow Fisher and Snead to see their investment in the pick through.
But recent history says that might not be the case. Tampa Bay drafted Jameis Winston with the first overall pick a year ago and fired Lovie Smith after the Bucs went 6-10, which was still a substantial improvement from the 2-14 record the previous year. Tennessee took quarterback Marcus Mariota with the second pick last year and fired coach Ken Whisenhunt midway through the season.
“If you’re asking me do I think drafting a quarterback one is going to, in their minds, buy them time, I don’t think that’s the case at all,” ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay said. “First of all, look at what happened in Tampa and Tennessee. Second of all, this franchise is moving to L.A., the focus is going to be on them, the excitement is going to be there. L.A. wants a winner. So I think they realize that they’ve got to win and my guess is that they’ve come to the realization that they’ve had so many pieces in place they just haven’t had a quarterback.”
So while it’s hard to imagine the Rams would allow their current decision makers to make such a big move without having the chance to reap the potential rewards, the status quo has changed.
Which means it’s up to Fisher and Snead to get off on the right foot by making sure they draft the right quarterback.
“One thing about this is you better be right,” longtime NFL coach Rick Venturi said Thursday. “You basically have ransomed the future. So I don’t think you can look in terms of you are going to build now, you’re going to build with players because you have given all those draft picks away. So what you have to say is our team is pretty doggone good and a top flight quarterback, though he may not win as a rookie, the top flight quarterback is all we really need to get going. I think that’s what you’re saying.”
That does indeed seem to be what the Rams are saying with Thursday’s trade but it’s also an admission that they were wrong not to address quarterback sooner. While most teams identify the quarterback and then build around him, Fisher and Snead have gone the other direction. The results haven’t been good.
Fisher and Snead came to the Rams in 2012 facing the difficult task of overhauling a team coming off a five-year stretch in which the Rams were 15-65, the worst such run in NFL history. They operated under the belief that Sam Bradford was the team’s present and future at quarterback. He turned out to be neither, largely because of injuries, which were out of the Rams’ control.
In four seasons with Fisher and Snead at the helm, the Rams have gone 27-36-1 with no playoff appearances. For most franchises, that lack of success would lead to a change at one or both positions. But the Rams aren’t like most franchises.
So the seat will likely be warm entering the 2016 season, especially if things go awry and the Rams bottom out. Although a team with a rookie quarterback trying to find his way finishing with seven wins comes with a more optimistic outlook than one starting Case Keenum, such a finish would still represent a lack of improvement.
Of course, stranger things have happened than a rookie quarterback coming in and playing well right away. Whoever the Rams draft will have the benefit of a salty defense and a dynamic running back, if not an unproven offensive line and pass-catchers.
But reality says that Goff and Wentz will need some time to develop. Whether the men drafting Goff and Wentz are there to see the finished product depends on how fast that development progresses.
April 15, 2016 at 1:49 pm in reply to: Gordon & Manziel…& more Manziel…the official staring at the car wreck thread #41990znModeratorReport states evidence of drugs and booze all over house rented by Manziel
ARTHUR ARKUSH
Johnny Manziel rented a house in Los Angeles last week and ransacked it to the tune of $32,000 in damages stemming from consecutive nights of booze- and drug-fueled partying, Page Six reported Thursday night.
The broker for a rental company, LA Exotic Life, claims Manziel and his friends destroyed a glass table, left what appears to be evidence of cocaine and mushrooms and left wine stains and cigarette burns in the carpeting. Page Six obtained photos that illustrate the party’s aftermath.
Page Six reports Manziel has been served with a $32,000 legal demand for the damage done to the $4.5 million estate.
“Mr. Manziel threw large parties on both nights, causing extensive damage . . . Evidence suggests [Manziel] and his guests were consuming drugs and alcohol . . . and that they caused a disturbance to the neighborhood,” said Niki Ghazian, the rental company’s attorney.
The LAPD was summoned on April 6 because of noise complaints coming from neighbors including comedian Kathy Griffin.
Two hours after Manziel was due to check out, he was found sleeping on the couch next to a table with the drug residue.
“They were supposed to check out at noon. Manziel was passed out . . . There was cocaine all over the kitchen table, and mushrooms were still out on the table in front of him. There was booze everywhere . . . broken glasses over the floor and a Champagne glass in a tree,” Nicholas Goodwin, the broker for LA Exotic, told Page Six. “If they don’t respond to our demand for compensation, we will sue.”
Prior to this latest example of Manziel’s self destruction, he had been dropped by agent Drew Rosenhaus, the second agent to leave him this year. He’s awaiting a grand jury case for his domestic violence charge from January, when his ex-girlfriend accused him of assault at a Dallas hotel.
He was filmed by TMZ last week outside a L.A. nightclub claiming to be roommates with Von Miller. He was also reportedly the passenger in a recent hit-and-run accident, though no arrests have been made in the incident.
znModeratorCleveland.com
Rams leapfrog Browns, reportedly targeting Carson Wentz over Jared Goff at No. 1
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/04/rams_leapfrog_browns_reportedl.html
CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Browns no longer have the “good problem” of choosing between Carson Wentz and Jared Goff with the No. 2 pick in the draft.
The Rams saw to that on Thursday when they pulled off a blockbuster trade with the Titans, moving up from No. 15 overall and leapfrogging the Browns into the No. 1 spot to take one of the top two quarterbacks.
Now, the Browns have to hope the Rams don’t steal their man, who several sources say is Goff.
Early word was that the Rams wanted Wentz — but conflicting reports swirled throughout the day.
“There will be suspense leading all the way up to (the draft),” Rams general manager Les Snead said during a press conference Thursday afternoon. “It’ll be good for the networks.”
Sam Farmer of Los Angeles Times reported that Wentz is the leader in the clubhouse but that Goff is still heavily in the mix — and now they have time to decide. The draft is April 28-30.
“There’s a strong likelihood that’s the guy who ends up in L.A.,” Farmer told NFL Network. Farmer also tweeted that it will definitely be one of the two quarterbacks and that they will “turn over every stone.”
NFL Network’s Mike Mayock agreed that it will be Wentz, the North Dakota State product.
“I don’t think there’s a question,” Mayock said on air.”I think it’s pretty obvious, and it’s going to be Carson Wentz.”
But one league source told cleveland.com that he’s hearing the Rams prefer Goff, who’s the top choice of analytics sites such as Football Outsiders and profootballfocus.com. NFL Network’s Mike Silver and ESPN’s Adam Schefter also say the Rams will take Goff.
During the press conference, Snead and coach Jeff Fisher — who coaxed three first-round picks and a second out of the Redskins in 2012 so Washington could take Robert Griffin III — confirmed that they conducted private workouts with both quarterbacks and hinted they know which one they’ll take.
But they weren’t about to play their hand, especially with so much interest in the pick.
If the Rams opt for Wentz, that would leave Goff for the Browns at No. 2, and they may have favored him anyway. As of the NFL Combine, Hue Jackson preferred Goff, a league source told cleveland.com.
Others have recently reported that the Browns like Goff over Wentz, including Jason LaCanfora of CBS Sports and former Browns senior writer Vic Carucci of the Buffalo News, who remains close to those in the Browns organization.
Carucci tweeted Thursday that if the Rams draft Wentz, “Browns get the guy they really want: Goff.”
But it might not be that simple.
If the Rams reverse field and draft Goff, will the Browns take Wentz at No. 2? Or will they trade the pick?
If Wentz is available at No. 2, at least two teams will likely be interested: the Cowboys and the Eagles. The Eagles, who have the No. 8 overall pick, were the runner-up in the sweepstakes to trade up to No. 1 with the Titans, according to Fox Sports, and a source told cleveland.com they really like Wentz.
The Cowboys, who have the No. 4 overall pick, fell in love with Wentz when they coached him for a week at the Senior Bowl in January. Both of those teams will likely reach out to the Browns if they haven’t already.
The Browns now have Griffin and are optimistic about his chances of succeeding, so they’re not desperate to take a quarterback.
Browns Executive Vice President Sashi Brown told Sirius XMNFL radio on Wednesday that interest in the No. 2 pick is heating up and that they’ll listen to offers over the next two weeks.
Interest might ramp up now that other players will be available at No. 2, including offensive tackle Laremy Tunsil, pass-rusher Joey Bosa and cornerback Jalen Ramsey. Tunsil is believed by many to be the best overall player in the draft.
If the Browns opt to trade down they might be able to land one of the second-tier quarterbacks in the draft, such as Paxton Lynch of Memphis or Connor Cook of Michigan State.
One top NFL talent evaluator this week told cleveland.com that he believes Lynch is better than Goff.
Both Lynch and Cook are developmental projects, but could sit behind Griffin for a year or two.
The Browns might also surprise folks and pick a non-quarterback at No. 2, such as Tunsil, Bosa or Ramsey — but this option seems a lot less likely than a quarterback or trading down.
The Browns have spent considerable time scouting both Goff and Wentz this offseason, attending their Pro Days and spending private time with them.
“(Goff’s) a tremendous kid,” Jackson told NFL Network after his Pro Day at Cal. “Obviously him being here at Cal, we have a little insight as to what he is, but he’s a tremendous young man. Had a tremendous career, has a lot of poise, obviously accuracy, can throw the ball with anybody, make all of the throws, but I think you guys all know it’s more than that than just playing quarterback. That guy has to be the face of the franchise, so just kind of want to find out as much as we can and be able to evaluate it all as we go through this process.”
Jackson, who almost got Cal head coaching job in Goff’s freshman year, said he’d rely on his instincts to know if Goff can be the guy. At Cal, Goff went from a 1-11 freshman season to 8-5 and a bowl appearance in 2015.
“You try to spend as much time as you can and talk to as many people as you can and then at the end of the day it really comes down to your gut and what you feel inside about the person,” he said. “I’ve been in this league long enough to have an understanding of what those guys feel like, act like, look like, talk like. So you’ve got to try to kind of trust yourself as you go through this process.”
Jackson said he’s noticed all the intangibles about Goff, who threw 96 touchdowns and 30 interceptions.
“Watching him go through his process here of starting where things weren’t as good to watch the team grow over his career and get better says a lot about him,” he said. “The stick-to-itness, the leadership, the ability to have some charisma through it all is really important and I think he’s handled that all extremely well.”
Jackson was the only NFL head coach who made it out to Wentz Pro Day at North Dakota State, in part because of a snowstorm that blanketed the middle of the country. He came away impressed, and not concerned about Wentz’ FCS status.
“We drafted Joe Flacco (when he was in Baltimore) and he played at a small school,” said Jackson. “So it’s not about that. It’s ‘Can the guy play?’ There’s a lot of players from small schools that are playing well in the National Football League. It’s about creating an environment playing great and I think we can do that.”
NFL Network’s Mike Mayock, who attended and analyzed the pro day, raved about him.
“I’m more convinced than ever that he’s the top quarterback in this draft,” said Mayock. “He’s 6-5, 237 and he’s every bit as athletic as Andrew Luck and Cam Newton.”
The Titans traded the No. 1 pick to the Rams for the 15th overall pick in this year’s draft, two second-round picks (43 and 45), and a third-rounder (76) in 2016. The Titans will also receive the Rams’ first-round pick in 2017, along with their third-round pick in next year’s draft.
In addition to Tennessee’s No.1 pick this year, the Rams will also receive a fourth-round pick (113) and sixth-round pick (177) in 2016.
“Being able to acquire six players in the top 76 this year, along with next year when you factor that into it — I am assuming five in the top three rounds — that is 11 players that we can add to this football team that should not only increase our depth, but give us good quality players at all those positions,” Titans general manager Jon Robinson said.
“In the end we thought it was a decision that was best for this football team. It made sense for us to do it, and that’s why we moved on it. We talked to several teams about the pick. There was interest in the pick, and in the end we thought this was the option that made the most sense for us…We think we can really bolster this roster with the picks that we now have.”
znModeratorJon Gruden high on Carson Wentz
link for the vid: http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas-cowboys/post/_/id/4749911/jon-gruden-high-on-carson-wentz
IRVING, Texas – Over the years, Jon Gruden has had all of the top quarterbacks come to his QB Camp series that airs on ESPN: Jameis Winston, Cam Newton, Marcus Mariota, Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr.
None of them impressed Gruden more than Carson Wentz.
“I think he’s the most NFL-ready quarterback that we’ve had in the last couple of years,” Gruden said in a clip released Monday.
That’s saying something, although teams doing the actual picking might think otherwise.
znModerator—
Kind of Blue/Gold
Wentz Dossier (Scouting Report/Highlights Aggregation)
NFL.com scouting profile – Zierlein
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/carson-wentz?id=2555259SI Top 50 – #7 comped with Roethlisberger by Farrar
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/04/14/nfl-draft-scouting-report-carson-wentz-north-dakota-stateNFL Draft Report – Dave-Te’ Thomas
http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/14237320/the-nfl-draft-report-s–cream-of-the-crop–series—the-complete-scouting-reports-on-the-2016-draft-s-top-quarterbacks—carson-wentz–jared-goff-and-paxton-lynch.htmlWaldman Film Room (VIDEO 1 hour), breaks down FCS Championship Game between NDSU and Illinois State – Matt is a fan of his game
RSP Film Room No.52: QB Carson Wentz w/Mark SchofieldHighlights – NDSU
Senior Bowl prospect analysis – DJ and Brooks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrFufxt4cQWentz is the real deal – on and off the field (DJ NFL.com)
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000651252/article/qb-lowdown-on-carson-wentz-paxton-lynch-browns-more“Not many evaluators have questions about Carson Wentz on the field, with the biggest concern being the North Dakota State product’s ability to adjust to the jump in competition level. And as teams continue to dig on him off the field, they’ve been blown away by his intangibles. In fact, off the field, he’s very similar to Andrew Luck in terms of intelligence, preparation and character. That his leadership abilities, smarts and toughness are all off the charts is helping give evaluators confidence that, though it might take some time, he’ll eventually figure it out and succeed at the NFL level.
I’ve had Wentz as my top quarterback throughout the whole process, and I think he’ll make a smooth transition.”
Pro day one of best Gil Brandt has ever seen (I think he also said this about Bradford and Aikman, latter tid bit may have been from Alyo?), comped him with Flacco
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000647286/article/rave-reviews-carson-wentz-pro-day-impresses-expertsCasserly of NFL.com polls 15 league execs, of those that didn’t need a QB or vote tie, Wentz preferred by 2-1 ratio (8-4-3 ties)
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000646713/article/poll-nfl-executives-favor-carson-wentz-over-jared-goffWentz similar upside to Luck, character off the charts reported by everybody at Senior bowl – Mayock
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000637808/article/mayock-carson-wentzs-ceiling-similar-to-andrew-lucksznModeratorThis thread sure has a new relevance, don’t it.
znModeratorPeter King
The Play for No. 1: Inside the Titans-Rams Trade
A major move at the top of the draft, as the Titans trade the No. 1 pick to the Rams, who are surely lined up to take a potential franchise quarterback for their first season back in Los Angeles
vid link: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/14/titans-rams-draft-trade-number-1-pick
April 15, 2016 at 1:57 am in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #41941znModeratorfrom off the net
==
RamBill
Schefter on NFL Radio Tonight: He’s getting mixed messages about who the Rams really like. He read some tweets he had got today from knowledgeable peoples saying the exact opposite.
He knew the Rams were the team trying hardest to trade up.
He, Pat Kirwan, and Jim Miller are floored about the possibility of the Browns passing on the QB at #2 and trading down.
znModeratorRams’ current QBs played a big role in trade for No. 1 pick
Don Banks
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/04/14/titans-rams-trade-nfl-draft-carson-wentz-case-keenum
Musings, observations and the occasional insight on the blockbuster trade that sent the first overall pick in the looming 2016 NFL draft from Tennessee to Los Angeles …
• The deal that changes the landscape of this year’s draft was finalized Wednesday night. But the Rams, trying to be the good new neighbor in Los Angeles, made sure the news didn’t leak out in deference to Kobe Bryant, who was playing the final game of his illustrious NBA career with the Lakers.
“We wanted to hold off. We didn’t want it breaking during Kobe’s last game,” said a Rams source. “But it wasn’t too late when it got done.”
There was no dramatic crystallizing moment in the trade negotiations, but the talks that will deliver a new franchise quarterback to Los Angeles didn’t truly intensify until Wednesday, roughly two-plus weeks after the Rams at No. 15 first broached the idea of a swap with the Titans at No. 1.
If there was any sense of urgency driving the timing of the deal, it was that Tennessee wanted to start a much deeper dive on the potential prospects who might be available to them at No. 15, while the Rams wanted two full weeks to make absolutely sure they had turned over every rock in deciding between North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz and Cal’s Jared Goff—the two top-rated quarterbacks.
The Rams are reportedly infatuated with Wentz and his game, but there is no certainty at this point that Goff is out of contention. If I’m betting on it, I’d give Wentz to L.A., but the Rams maintain that there’s work left to do in the scouting process and that no final call has been made.
The Rams obviously shipped a boatload of draft capital to Tennessee in the trade, but strangely enough, they might be able to thank Nick Foles—their 2015 Week 1 starting quarterback—for being able to swing a deal for the Titans’ pick. Rams sources say the trade with Tennessee doesn’t get made if they didn’t own an extra second-round pick this year, the one they got in the Sam Bradford-for-Foles deal from March 2015. The Eagles’ pick was the 43rd overall selection. And it was packaged to Tennessee along with the No. 45 pick the Rams already owned.
The Rams took a stab at an answer at quarterback last year by dealing for Foles, and it clearly did not work out. But in getting that second-rounder back from Philly, they viewed the extra pick as something of an insurance policy should they find themselves back in search of a franchise quarterback in 2016.
So there you go, Rams fans. You may have had to suffer through the failed Foles experiment last season, but you might have Nick to thank if the Rams’ next franchise quarterback really is their long-sought savior.
• The Rams somehow landed the league’s Defensive Rookie of the Year in defensive tackle Aaron Donald at No. 13 in 2014 and followed that up by drafting the eventual Offensive Rookie of the Year in running back Todd Gurley at No. 10 last season. They didn’t feel anywhere near as confident that they could continue that kind of streak this year with the 15th pick, and that was more motivation to make a deal with Tennessee.
The Rams thought Donald fell that far because of being slightly undersized for his position, and Gurley obviously was limited by his ongoing recovery from a knee injury and the fact that he plays running back in an era where few are even valued at a first-round level.
But the Rams didn’t see any undervalued bargains looming at No. 15 this year and thought it likely that no one remotely near the caliber of Donald or Gurley would be available. It also speaks to Los Angeles’s realization that Memphis quarterback Paxton Lynch was not the answer to its quarterback issues at No. 15, as so many of us mock draft-types had projected.
The Titans are obviously the kings of this year’s draft, with six of the top 76 picks in their pocket: a first-rounder at No. 15, three second-rounders at 33, 43 and 45, and two third-rounders at 64 and 76. They can do whatever they want and turn that stockpile into a virtual Herschel Walker-like bonanza with some deft on-the-clock maneuvering. It’s a potential gold mine for new Titans general manager Jon Robinson in his roster-building efforts.
But the Rams feel somewhat comforted by the fact that they expect to get a compensatory third-round pick next year for the loss of 2016 free agent Janoris Jenkins, who signed with the Giants in March. That would leave Los Angeles with no first-rounder next year but one pick each in the second, third, four and fifth rounds, giving them at least a decent seat at the draft table in 2017.
This trade won’t completely kill the Rams in next year’s draft if they wind up owning four picks in the opening five rounds. And if their quarterback choice works out in the long run, allowing them to compete with the likes of Seattle, Arizona and San Francisco in the rugged NFC West, the Rams will deem their gamble well worth the sizable expenditure.
• This trade feeds the theory that the Rams wanted to draft a first-round quarterback in order to make a big splash as they return to the Los Angeles market for the first time since the 1994 season. But that kind of misses the big picture.
First and foremost, the Rams need to get their quarterback position finally fixed and stop trying to band-aid the one spot that can’t be band-aided in the NFL. And if doing so adds to the excitement and general tidings of goodwill that the franchise has engendered since January’s relocation announcement, all the better. This massive deal was about more than just recapturing their home market and selling a fresh young superstar face to the fans.
“It had nothing to do with it and that part of it was never discussed,” a Rams source said. “If the trade works out, it’s a nice bonus. But we needed a quarterback no matter where we were.”
So when will Wentz or Goff be expected to take over the starting quarterback job? And will the Rams be trying to hold on to incumbent starter Case Keenum, or will quarterback-needy Denver now come after him, either via a trade or by signing the restricted free-agent to a deal that would cost the Broncos their No. 31 pick in the first round?
The Rams gave Keenum a first-round tender in March, wisely deciding that they couldn’t afford to lose their potential 2016 starter for the last pick of the second round if the Broncos came calling. Denver coach Gary Kubiak had Keenum in Houston and is believed to be enamored with him as a potential starter.
First things first: The Rams have no advantage to gain by naming a still undrafted rookie quarterback as their starter this season. That removes some of their leverage in any potential Keenum deal and unnecessarily complicates the rookie seasons of either Wentz or Goff, both of whom could probably benefit from something of a redshirt rookie season, if draft observers are to be believed.
Whomever the Rams draft, look for the team to maintain that there’s no timetable for him to play, and that they will let his development dictate when he gets put on the field. They’ll pick him this year, see how he does, and then play him when his chances for success are best.
At least that’s the plan going in. But as we all know, plans at quarterback have a way of rapidly changing in the NFL.
• As for Keenum, the Broncos’ anticipated pursuit of him makes a lot of sense on several levels. If Denver happens to believe he’s better than any young quarterback option it might secure at No. 31—say, Lynch or Michigan State’s Connor Cook, for example—then maybe it signs Keenum to an offer sheet, potentially putting the Rams back into the first round.
More likely, trade talks between the Rams and Broncos will ensue, with Los Angeles trying to recoup some of the draft capital it just surrendered in exchange for Keenum, but nothing at the first round level. In that scenario, such a deal will either force the Rams’ rookie quarterback into the lineup sooner than anticipated this season, or perhaps require L.A. to make due with either Foles or second-year passer Sean Mannion in the lineup while the rookie develops.
znModeratorHow the Rams Brought the No. 1 Pick to L.A.
By Myles Simmons
Many around the league have considered the Rams a team “close” to contention for a number of years. Though its carried a stout defense and back-to-back AP Rookie of the Year honorees, the club has still fallen short of its stated goal to make the postseason.
But with a bold move worthy of the team’s hometown, the Rams have acquired the No. 1 overall pick in the 2016 NFL Draft. And the team’s brass believes this first selection on April 28 could be a primary factor in L.A. contending for the NFC West title.
“We’re done being close,” head coach Jeff Fisher told therams.com on Thursday. “We want to get over the top and be significant.”
The blockbuster deal that netted Los Angeles the No. 1, No. 113, and No. 177 overall selections had its first seeds planted just under two months ago.
“We evaluate our roster like everybody else does,” Fisher said at Thursday’s press conference. “Mid-February, we’re at the Combine — we had a plan.”
For the event at Lucas Oil Stadium, teams are assigned suites where their personnel may gather to watch on-field drills. This year, the Rams’ and Titans’ suites happened to be right next to one another.
General manager Les Snead said he and new Titans GM Jon Robinson have essentially grown up together in the business, so there was already a comfort level between them. That may have been one factor in why Snead approached Robinson in Indianapolis about the possibility of dealing the No. 1 overall pick.
“I knew this: They had a quarterback they drafted last year. We’ve worn those shoes before,” Snead said Thursday. “I knew they might be thinking, ‘Hey, let’s move back acquire some more picks,’ because they had their QB. And I thought they might be open to it. So it started then.”
Snead added the close proximity of the two suites allowed he and Robinson to chat more than they may have otherwise.
“It was easy for Jon and I to sneak out the back of the suite there, and act like we were going to the restroom, and then chat about the pick,” he said.
And that friendship between Snead and Robinson may have aided the trade in getting off the ground.
“Anytime you’re dealing with somebody that you know or at least you respect, you probably work well. You look forward to picking up the phone and calling,” Snead said. “Now, in this business, there are only 31 other teams you can work with. So even the 10 [GMs] that you may not know as well and you may not want to pick up the phone and call just to call, you still have to pick up the phone and do business. But you may make a few more phone calls if you know the guy.”
For this deal, Snead said he zeroed in on the Titans — and only the Titans. There may have been a few phone calls to other teams with high first-round picks, but they never amounted to anything substantial.
“I did talk to people in the top five, but they’re good buddies of mine, so … on the long commute here [to Oxnard], I’ve got to have something to do,” Snead said. “But I think we focused in on [No.] 1, because you didn’t know what was going to happen at [No.] 2. And, hey, if you want something, go get it.”
But it’s not quite that simple. Snead described this trade process as analogous to writing a term paper. There are multiple layers to it, from not only finding the right trade partner, but also to making sure there’s a player worth the value you’re giving up.
“It’s probably not like going to buy groceries,” Snead said. “You don’t just walk in the store, pick them out, and go buy them. It’s more of a longer process where you’re trying to figure out values and all that. And then you go get it done.”
“We found the perfect trade partner,” Fisher said. “We felt like to have an impact and to go where we need to go, why not go up and get the best player available?”
While discussions between the two teams have been ongoing since the Combine, they reached a fever pitch this week.
“Probably sometime over the weekend, Jon and I came up with a timeline, of, ‘OK, it’s time to quit flirting and start dancing a little bit.’” Snead said. The Rams’ GM noted both teams would likely have to make adjustments to their draft preparations over the next two weeks with such a dramatic shift in first-round picks.
“We would probably check in once a day, once every other day,” Snead continued. “And I checked in with Jon yesterday, and he said, ‘Hey, we want to do it today.’ So I wasn’t necessarily expecting it, but knew it was coming toward the end of the week.”
According to Fisher, both Rams’ and Titans’ ownership gave their approval Wednesday afternoon and the trade between the teams was complete by about 5 p.m. CT.
“Yesterday as we were getting close to dotting the ‘i’s and crossing the ’t’s, we got in touch with Stan [Kroenke] and we’re very, very excited about this opportunity,” Fisher said, “not only for the potential future of our football team, but in addition to the circumstances and the timing.”
But, there was another particularly significant sporting event going on about 60 miles away from Oxnard in downtown Los Angeles Wednesday night, prompting the Rams to hit the pause button on announcing the blockbuster trade.
“Jeff and I were probably deep into football and drafts, and all of a sudden [we realized], ‘Oh yeah, it is Kobe’s last night,’” Snead said.
That’s right — Fisher said the organization wanted to do everything it could to honor Kobe Bryant’s last game in the NBA, as he finished his storied 20-year career with the Lakers.
“Now keep in mind, they were really excited,” Fisher said, adding the Titans initially wanted to announce the trade Wednesday night. “So that’s when we had the conversation where we said, ‘Hey look, we’ll keep this quiet, you guys keep this quiet. Let’s honor Kobe, and the Lakers, and the L.A. fans tonight. And we’ll do something in the morning. That’s how it went down.”
At 6 a.m. pacific — 8 a.m. central — Thursday morning, the Titans sent out a release announcing they had acquired six draft picks in exchange for No. 1, No. 113, and No. 177 overall selections this year.
And in just two weeks, we’ll find out who the Rams will take at the top of the draft to usher in a new era of professional football in Los Angeles
znModeratorRams wisely overpay in bold move for No. 1 pick
Vincent Bonsignore, Los Angeles Daily News
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20160414/bonsignore-rams-wisely-overpay-in-bold-move-for-no-1-pick
A few days before the Rams boldly made the move for the top overall pick in the NFL Draft, I wondered to a high-ranking team official the possibility new Browns coach Hue Jackson would talk his bosses out of taking a quarterback with the second pick of the draft.
The implication being, if the Browns warmed to Robert Griffin III and passed on North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz and Cal’s Jared Goff, the Rams wouldn’t have to move all the way from the 15th pick to No. 1 to get their quarterback of the future.
And maybe, just maybe, they could sit tight at No. 15 and one or the other might fall to them.
The response was more than a little bit intriguing, the gist of which being the Rams weren’t about to begin guessing what the new Browns head coach and regime might be thinking.
At that moment, it hit me like a Noah Syndergaard fastball: The Rams were seriously looking into trading all the way up to No. 1.
And in the process, they’d eliminate all the guess work and remove the elements of hope and chance that things would break right and they’d get their guy.
The Rams had essentially decided they weren’t going to let the Browns or Cowboys or 49ers or anyone else decide what quarterbacks they could choose from when their turn arrived in the first round.
“We focused in on one,” Rams general manager Les Snead said. “Because you didn’t know what was going to happen at two.”
The decision whether Wentz or Goff was the best quarterback available was going to be the Rams’, and the Rams’ alone, to make.
“If you want something, go get it,” Snead said.
It was a plan of attack whose roots were laid last month at the NFL Combine, then came to fruition Wednesday night when the Rams agreed to send their 15th pick, their 43rd and 45th picks in the second round, the 76th pick in the third and next year’s first- and third-round picks to the Tennessee Titans to acquire the first overall pick.
The deal was completed at 5 p.m. or so Wednesday night, but out of deference to Lakers star Kobe Bryant playing in his final game, the Rams and Titans postponed the official announcement until Thursday morning.
“At (the point of completion) I told (Titans general manager John Robinson) ‘Hey, we’ve got this thing going on in L.A. that’s pretty big and it’s obviously bigger than L.A., and they realized enough to say let’s respect that and we can all go watch Kobe.”
By the crack of dawn Thursday, word began spreading the Rams had acquired the first pick in the draft and a chance to choose between Wentz or Goff as their quarterback of the future.
Talk about making a grand entrance back in Los Angeles.
Nothing like shaking up the draft and putting yourself in position to secure a potential franchise quarterback, the very position the Rams need to solidify to elevate from a competitive team to a potentially dominant one, your first few weeks in your new digs.
It was a bold, aggressive move.
But it told Los Angeles that the Rams are willing to act confidently and decisively to deliver a winning product.
“Wherever we could have been, we would have done the same thing,” Rams head coach Jeff Fisher said, insisting the move was made for football reasons and not to make an L.A, splash.
But even Fisher admitted the storm could not be more perfect to make such a decisive move.
“When you take into consideration what’s ahead for this franchise and the enthusiasm and excitement, the timing couldn’t be better,” he said.
Not a bad way to begin a new relationship, I’d say.
It was a steep price to pay, to be sure.
But it was a necessary requirement for the unprecedented move of vaulting all the way from 15 to No. 1.
And the Rams believe so much in the talented young roster they’ve built over the past few years they can justifiably sacrifice multiple picks in pursuit of the quarterback they believe can push them to the next level.
This trade doesn’t happen if various other holes need to be filled.
But by nailing the reigning Offensive Rookie of the Year in Todd Gurley after drafting the 2014 Defensive Rookie of the Year in Aaron Donald, and wisely constructing one of the best young defenses in the NFL and an improving offensive line, their most pressing need is singular rather than plural.
To push the Rams into playoff contention, a difference maker at quarterback was of paramount importance in this draft.
“Our philosophy has always been to build through the draft,” Snead said. “This trade is a reflection of that goal and (owner Stan) Kroenke’s dedication to assembling a winning team on the field. We appreciate his commitment as we continue to improve our roster and lay the foundation for our future through this year’s draft.”
So yeah, the Rams had to overpay.
But it was necessary.
The Rams were not about to leave the draft with Case Keenum as their best option at quarterback.
And they weren’t going to go one more season without complementing their talented young roster with caretakers at the most important position on the field.
Let alone their first year back in L.A.
This was a roster in need of a quarterback who can win games.
The brand needed a star at the most glamorous position in the sport.
In one fell swoop, the Rams hope they settled both needs.
Now they have to decide whether that’s Wentz or Goff, a card neither Fisher nor Snead were willing to reveal on Thursday and one that might not be played until the eve of the draft.
They have two weeks to decide, a task they’ve already begun.
The key is, the decision belongs to the Rams alone.
znModeratorRams move up to No. 1 in the draft in deal with Titans
Gary Klein and Sam Farmer
The Rams’ decision about whether they will select Carson Wentz or Jared Goff probably will not be known until the April 28 NFL draft.
But the blockbuster trade that enabled them to acquire the No. 1 pick, and their impending choice between the quarterbacks, had its genesis in another draft — the selection of hotel suites for the annual NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis.
That’s where the Rams and the Tennessee Titans — who ended up in neighboring rooms — first began discussing a deal that put the Rams in position to make a major splash in their return to Los Angeles.
The trade was completed Wednesday night, but the teams held off announcing it until Thursday morning in reverence to Kobe Bryant’s final game with the Lakers.
“This is the best thing for our football team,” Coach Jeff Fisher said of the trade during an afternoon news conference in Oxnard. “When you take into consideration what’s ahead for this franchise and the enthusiasm and excitement, the timing couldn’t have been better.”
The Rams moved further to get to the top than any team in draft history.
They gave up their No. 15 pick in this year’s draft as well as two second-round picks, a third-round pick and first- and third-round picks next year. They also received the Titans’ fourth- and sixth-round picks this year.
“A few storms collided,” General Manager Les Snead said. “There’s a player we like and there was a team that was willing to come back [in the draft]. And our roster was at a point where it’s young and has a foundation, so let’s go do it.”
The Rams will open off-season workouts Monday with Case Keenum as their presumptive starter, and with Nick Foles and Sean Mannion also on the roster.
But Fisher and Snead had made no secret of their desire to upgrade at quarterback. The question was whether they had enough draft picks to entice a team picking among the top five.
Snead broached the subject of a trade with Titans General Manager Jon Robinson at the outset of the combine, where North Dakota State’s Wentz and California’s Goff were among more than 300 draft hopefuls. At the combine, Snead said, teams “draft” for suite location, which are used for player interviews.
“Lo and behold, the Titans were our neighbors this year,” Snead said, “So it was easy for Jon and I to sneak out the back of the suite there and act like we were going to the restroom, and [we’d] chat about the pick.”
The talks continued through March and heated up a few weeks ago.
“They did say they were chatting with other teams as well,” Snead said, adding, “Both organizations decided, ‘You know what, let’s come together. If we’re going to do this, let’s do it sooner than later.'”
Last weekend, Snead said, he and Robinson decided, “OK, time to stop flirting and start dancing a little bit.”
They continued to speak each day. Snead said Robinson told him Wednesday, “Hey, we want to do it today.”
Fisher, Snead and Chief Operating Officer Kevin Demoff got the blessing of owner Stan Kroenke and completed the deal late Wednesday afternoon.
“That’s when we had the conversation that, ‘We’ll keep this quiet and you guys keep this quiet,'” Fisher said. “Let’s honor Kobe and the Lakers and L.A. fans … and we’ll do something in the morning.”
Snead and Fisher said a Week 17 loss last season against the San Francisco 49ers, that included a blocked-field goal attempt, positioned the Rams for their historic move.
“If the field goal goes through upright and is not blocked, we’re picking 19,” Fisher said. “Can you get from 19 to 1? I don’t know…. But if that hadn’t happened we wouldn’t be sitting here today.”
Snead said his wife — former NFL Network reporter Kara Henderson — always tries to make him feel better after losses by saying the defeat might pay off come draft time.
“As always, she’s correct,” he said. “In April, it feels a little better than that night in January.”
Now the Rams can look ahead.
They conducted private workouts with Wentz and Goff in February and early March, Fisher said.
With the anticipated selection of one or the other, the Rams could have four quarterbacks on the roster when training camp begins. But Snead said a quarterback could be traded.
“Obviously, that’s something we’d have to look at,” he said. “We’re focused on getting this trade accomplished and getting through the draft and well see where it goes.”
So will it be Wentz or Goff?
Neither Snead nor Fisher tipped his hand, saying their choice would be revealed on draft day.
“There will be suspense leading all the way up,” Snead said.
April 15, 2016 at 12:20 am in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #41936znModerator2016 is reminding me of 2004…the Eli, Rivers, Roethlisberger draft. I think this year there’s at least 3 guys with that kind of upside. Not quite elite qbs, just good to very good qbs who thrive when their teams are set.
If, in 2004, your team had no qb, would you trade up to get one of those 3?
I think that’s what’s going on here.
I also think about the fact that more or less those guys have all done well for more than a decade, and that’s what I expect the Rams to get…a 12-15 year qb who can do it if you add a defense to the mix.
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April 14, 2016 at 11:25 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #41933znModeratorToday’s feeling is…I like Wentz, doggone it.
I think there’s more qb there than with Goff.
But that’s relative. Obviously they are both worthy of being top 5 picks.
znModerator<
“I’d hate to be a team in need of a quarterback. The best two in this draft might end up being from Memphis and North Dakota State and that ought to scare the (expletive) out of you. It takes some courage to turn that card in.” — NFC scout
That’s one view out of MANY. The consensus I see after reading (and posting) MANY views is that there are 2 and possibly 3 good franchise level qbs this year, and maybe even 4.
You can’t be selective with these things. Read up to about 2 dozen different assessments. The idea that this year is light at qb is not the consensus. And others will back me up on this.
znModeratorYeah but this years draft is supposedly light in QB talent making the choice more risky.
No, no one said it was light in talent at qb. That’s next year. If anything, there;s more qb talent in this draft than most.
And to make a genuine comparison, you would have to go back to all the previous years where qbs were taken first and compare the talent levels at the position.
As it stands, there are 3, possibly 4, 1st round prospects at qb this draft. In 2010, there was only 1—Bradford.
What they DID say is that there is no one at the Luck level in this draft. Which is fine…a franchise qb is not the same as an elite qb. There are always more of the former per decade than of the latter.
So there’s at least 4 possible franchise qbs in this draft, including Goff and Wentz prominently among them.
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