Ex-Wife Says Orlando Shooter Might Have Been Hiding Homosexuality From His Family

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-wife-says-orlando-shooter-105927115.html

Omar Mateen’s sexuality was the least of Sitora Yusufiy’s worries.

Their five-month marriage was abusive from the start. He was controlling. He kept her from seeing her family. He beat her, pulled her hair, dug his fingernails into the soft flesh of her wrists when she wandered away from him in the supermarket.

But when she thinks back on the brief marriage seven years ago, there are other recollections that come to mind. “There were things he would do in his daily life that most straight men don’t do,” she said in a phone interview with TIME on Tuesday.

“He would take a long time in front of the mirror, he would often take pictures of himself, and he made little movements with his body that definitely made me question things,” she recalled, “It definitely popped up in my head whether he was totally straight.”

Mateen and Yusufiy met on Myspace and were married from April to August 2009, until her parents sensed she was unhappy and came down to Florida from New Jersey to check on her. When they realized she was in an abusive situation, Yusufiy’s parents took her back to New Jersey with them, and the marriage abruptly ended.

Yusufiy said she never noticed anything in their sex life that would lead her to believe Mateen was gay. But she noted that any kind of sexual exploration would have been totally forbidden by Mateen’s strict Afghan family.

“In his family structure, homosexuality was really not tolerated,” she said. “And one of the directions of his life was to be a perfect son.”

That pressure to be live up to his father’s strict expectations often led Mateen to lash out with violence, she says. Once, she recalled, she fell asleep on the floor while watching TV and he started beating her as she slept. He yanked the pillow out from under her, pulled her by her hair, and then started to choke her. Hours later, when she asked him what happened, at first he claimed he was angry that she hadn’t finished the laundry. Then he revealed that he’d had a fight with his father.

As the only son of Afghan immigrants, Mateen was subject to high expectations from his parents. “It’s pretty pressured. You have to be perfect in every way, you have to have a high education, you have to be totally respectful,” Yusufiy said. “And not be in any way homosexual, that’s for sure.”

Mateen’s sexuality has been in question since he was revealed as the killer. Various media outlets have reported that that users on the gay dating app Jack’d say they have exchanged messages with Mateen, but the CEO of Jack’d says they have not yet found any proof that Mateen had an account. A former classmate at Indian River Community College told the Palm Beach Post that Mateen went to gay bars with classmates and once tried to pick him up. Four regulars at Pulse, the nightclub where the shooting occurred, told the Orlando Sentinel they had seen Mateen there before.

But Pulse is about a two hour drive from Mateen’s home in Fort Pierce, FL, and it would take four hours of driving to go there and back in one night. Nobody recalled ever seeing him at TattleTails, a gay bar just a few miles from his apartment. In three gay bars in West Palm Beach, an hour from Mateen’s home, none of the bartenders or customers told TIME they remembered ever seeing him.

Yusufiy recalls once hearing Mateen’s father Seddique Mateen call his son gay in Farsi, but Mateen laughed it off. “They had this relationship where Omar was always trying to impress him and be the perfect son for his father and live up to his approval, because his father is such a prominent political figure,” she said.

The elder Mateen repeatedly rebuffed questions about homosexuality in an interview, including multiple queries about whether his son might have been motivated by homophobia and whether could have been gay. At one point, he said “Let me tell you: my son is not gay. He’s not.”

Yusufiy isn’t so sure. “It’s just making more sense in my head from my personal experience that this was probably it,” she said. “He might have been homosexual himself and lived that lifestyle but could never ever come clean about it because of the standards of his father, because of the obligation to be a perfect son,” she added.

Goff takes first-team snaps, Rams shake off ‘brotherly’ scuffle

Gary Klein

http://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-mini-camp-20160614-snap-story.html

Most of the passes were short or midrange. The only deep ball, which looked as though it might turn into a touchdown, was dropped by a fellow rookie.

And the most excitement of the day came courtesy of a scuffle between linemen after a pass was batted down.

So went Rams quarterback Jared Goff’s first practice taking most of the first-team snaps against the first-team defense.

“I felt good out there,” Goff said after Tuesday’s workout in Oxnard. “It didn’t feel much different than the last few days.

“It’s just a different group of guys. It’s exciting and I had a good time building that relationship with them.”

Case Keenum entered organized team activities as the No. 1 quarterback, but Goff, the top pick in the NFL draft, has been on course to work with the starters.

He moved from the third team to the second team during the first six workouts. The Rams said Goff took first-team snaps in seven-on-seven drills during Monday’s closed practice, and he was elevated into the main role Tuesday in the team’s second-to-last practice.

Goff, addressing the media for the final time before training camp in late July, said he has made progress. As of late, he said, he was playing rather than thinking.

“Overall,” he said, “I feel a hundred times more comfortable and ready than I was at the beginning.”

Left tackle Greg Robinson said Goff adjusted well to working with starters.

“It was good to get those reps with him, just to see how he conducts the huddle and stuff like that,” Robinson said. “There were a few times he got shook up a little bit and it was a nice chance for us to just pick him up. … Just to let him know ‘Everything is going to be OK.’ He could take his time and we’re going to do our best to protect him.

“Just helping him keep his confidence up, because you never know what a quarterback is thinking.”

Robinson was attempting to protect Goff on a pass play on which defensive tackle Aaron Donald batted down the ball.

Defensive end Eugene Sims tangled with Robinson on the play, touching off a scuffle that involved multiple players. Coach Jeff Fisher admonished both the offense and defense.

“Just competitive nature,” Robinson said.

“That’s just brotherly love,” Sims said, chuckling. “It’s a contact sport, heat of the moment. … One of those brotherly scuffles.”

Later in practice, Goff appeared to have the highlight-reel moment of the day when he lofted a long pass to receiver Michael Thomas, but the ball slipped through Thomas’ hands.

“He’s a great player,” Goff said. “It just happens sometimes. Just like we throw interceptions all the time, it’s a dropped ball. Not a big deal.”

Goff is expected to continue taking first-team snaps Thursday when the Rams complete workouts.

He said he would take a few days afterward to see family and friends, but will return to Southern California and work with Keenum and Rams receivers during the weeks leading up to the start of training camp in late July at UC Irvine.

The lessons learned during OTAs while working against the Rams’ first-team defense are expected to pay off for Goff as he competes for the starting job. The season opener is Sept. 12 against the San Francisco 49ers on “Monday Night Football.”

“As a rookie,” he said, “seeing so many [defensive] looks right now, in the long run I think it’s going to be very beneficial and something I’m going to look back on and be like, ‘Wow. I’m thankful I saw all that early on and I’m able to recognize it now.’”

Poised to return

Cornerback E.J. Gaines missed last season after undergoing foot surgery.

He has been limited during OTAs but said he would be ready to compete for a starting spot opposite Trumaine Johnson during training camp. The departure of Janoris Jenkins created an open starting spot.

“I got out there the last couple days a little bit and got some full 100% reps against the offense,” Gaines said. “They’re just kind of reeling me in a little slow so I don’t have any setbacks.”

Gaines, 23, played in college at Missouri and was a sixth-round draft pick in 2014. He started 15 games as a rookie.

“I just want to build on that,” he said.

After Jenkins OKd a free-agent contract with the New York Giants, the Rams signed free agent Coty Sensabaugh. Lamarcus Joyner is also among those competing for a role.

“As soon as [training] camps starts, everyone starts at ground zero,” Gaines said. “I’m going to try and win a spot like everybody else. There’s definitely enough room for everybody.”

Quick hit

Cornerback Johnson, who left the field during practice last week after a collision with a receiver, did not practice. Running back Todd Gurley and receiver Tavon Austin also did not practice.

Rams QB Jared Goff – June 14, 2016

(On getting some reps with the 1s today)

“Good. It went well. I felt good out there. It didn’t feel much different than the last few days. It’s just a different group of guys. It’s exciting. I had a good time building that relationship with them. I thought it went well today.”

(On if it is a little different to see different faces to throw to)

“Yeah, a little bit. On defense, its more different looking at the defense than it would be just with different guys on offense. Like you said, there’s the first-team defense out there, and they’re one of the best defenses in the league, so that’s definitely a little bit different. But, at the same time, I think it went well. I felt pretty comfortable with it.”

(On if he thinks going against a defense like the Rams will help him progress)

“Yes. I think tremendously. I think any time you can play against elevated competition, and like I said, they’re one of the best in the league. When you go into a game and it’s not the same, it’s going to help a lot. They’ve been really helpful with everything. When they’re that good over there, it makes it easier on us when we face other teams.”

(On how beneficial it is for him to see so many different looks that the defense gives them during practice)

“Yes, similar thing I was just talking about. They do so much stuff over there and they do it well. It’s definitely different for us and me as a rookie, seeing so many looks right now. In the long run, I think it’s going to be very beneficial and something that I’m going look back on and be like, ‘Wow. I’m thankful I saw all of that early on and I’m able to recognize it now.’”

(On if he said anything to WR Michael Thomas after he dropped a ball in practice)

“No. I’m not worried about that. He’s a great player. It just happens sometimes, just like you know, we throw interceptions all that time – dropped balls, not a big deal. But yeah, just keep your head up. I didn’t really say much to him. I know he’s going to be fine. Nothing to say to him.”

(On how he would evaluate his experience so far)

“I think the first half of it, there was a lot of learning; a lot of thinking. About half way through last week, started to become more playing and more just feeling natural and feeling more comfortable every day, getting more comfortable. Now, through practices, I feel fairly more comfortable. I’m excited about continuing to make more steps and continuing to feel more comfortable and all of that. But I think overall, I feel 100 times more comfortable and ready than I was at the beginning.”

(On what his plans are for the break leading into training camp)

“I’ll definitely see my family and friends for a little bit of it early on, and then I’ll be down here for most of it. I talked with (QB) Case (Keenum) and some of the other guys, we’re going to have the receivers down here, throwing to them and we’ll just be doing that all summer working out.”

(On the most difficult adjustment he had to make going up against the 1s on defense)

“I think like I said, the different looks they have. They have so many different looks and they do it so well. One play is never like the next with them. Like I said, they do it well, so it’s tough for our offense even playing them every day in practice, to execute.”

(On if he’s finding himself recognizing the looks on defense more quickly)

“Yeah, I think as practice went on, I definitely (picked) it up quicker. But at first they were giving me all those looks and I was like, ‘What is this? What is this?’ But as a few practices go through, you get more comfortable, you see it more often and you’re able to recognize it quicker.”

(On if the defense was trying to taunt him on the field or distract him at all)

“No, the defense is just focused on their job. They like to talk a little bit, but nothing crazy.”

(On his thoughts on the speed of the game at the NFL level)

“You definitely can notice it. I think there’s definitely a higher speed, especially when you’re with that group of 1s on defense. It’s definitely a difference in speed. Like I’ve said a couple times now, as time went on through practices, through the last eight practices, it’s starting to slow down. At first it was fast and then you get more comfortable and you see stuff more often, you see the looks a few more times and it starts to slow down a little bit. I feel pretty good about it.”

(On if he feels like he needs to get a mental break away from football considering his pre-draft process and being the No. 1 overall pick)

“No, I don’t think so. Maybe, like I said, see my family and take a few days off or something. I’ll give myself a breather. But for the most part, I’ve got to be down here and be working out and try to get ready.”

(On if he his concerned about the Golden State Warriors losing last night)

“I think they’ll be alright with Draymond (Green) Thursday night. We’ll be alright. No worries. I don’t get too worried when they lose because they don’t lose two in a row very often.”

(On if some of the wide receivers and running backs will join the quarterbacks during the break before training camp for workouts)

“Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of guys are going to be living down here permanently. That’s another good thing about being in LA now, people want to stay here during the summer. We’ll have basically everyone down in this area, down in the north LA area, so it’ll be nice to have all of them down here and be able to continue to get work.”

Goff Takes First-Team Snaps

By Myles Simmons

http://www.therams.com/news-and-events/article-1/Goff-Takes-First-Team-Snaps/d0017445-c369-4aa3-94a8-4859bc438b2a

At the start of Rams OTAs, head coach Jeff Fisher said rookie quarterback Jared Goff would likely get reps with the first-team offense before the club finished its nine sessions. That time has come, as Goff was in with the ‘ones’ during multiple 11-on-11 periods Tuesday afternoon.

Goff had previously worked with the first-team offense in Los Angeles’ three-on-four drill, and seven-on-seven drills. But June 14 marked the first day Goff worked with the entire offense against the entire defense. The session went well, with the No. 1 overall pick completing many of his passes, and looking poised in the face of pressure.

“I felt good out there,” Goff said following Tuesday’s practice. “It didn’t feel much different than the last few days. It’s just a different group of guys. It’s exciting. And I had a good time building that relationship with them.”

The quarterback noted it was a bit of an adjustment getting in the huddle with some different faces, but the bigger shift comes looking at the other side on the line of scrimmage.

“There’s the first-team defense out there, and they’re one of the best defenses in the league,” Goff said. “So it’s definitely a little bit different. But at the same time, I think it went well, and I got pretty comfortable with it.”

Gaining a sense of comfort has been a significant part of Goff’s progression throughout OTAs. One area in which he’s gained it is with the speed of the game. Like all rookies, Goff said it’s noticeably different going from college to the pros.

“I think there’s definitely a higher speed, especially when you’re with that group of ‘ones’ on defense, it’s definitely [a] difference in speed,” Goff said. “But I think, like I said a couple times now, as time went on in practice, through the last eight practices, I’ve started to slow down. At first it was fast, and then you get more comfortable when you see stuff more often, you see the looks a few more times. And it starts to slow down a little bit.”

One of the more difficult tasks of playing the Rams’ defense is deciphering the many different looks coordinator Gregg Williams will put on the field. Goff appears to have come a long way in a short time when it comes to recognizing what he’s seeing.

“It’s just, one play is never like the next with them,” Goff said. “I think as practices went on, I was definitely able to pick it up quicker. But at first, they’re giving me all those looks, I’m like, ‘What is this?’

“But as a few practices go through, you get more comfortable,” he continued. “You see it more often, you’re able to recognize it quicker.”

And Goff feels getting challenged now will pay dividends once the season hits.

“Oh yeah, I think tremendously,” he said. “When they’re that good over there, it makes it easier for us when we face other teams.”

With only one more OTA practice remaining, Goff said he’s feeling “100 times more comfortable and ready than I was at the beginning.”

“I think the first half of it was a lot of learning, a lot of thinking. And I think halfway through last week, it started to become more playing — more just feeling natural,” Goff said. “Now through eight practices, I feel fairly comfortable. And I’m pretty excited about continuing to make those steps and continue to feel more comfortable and all that.”

But with the end of OTAs comes some well earned time off. There’s about six weeks between the final Phase III practice and the start of training camp. Goff said he’ll likely use the beginning of that time to visit with family, but he and the other quarterbacks are looking to get together to throw and train at some point during the break. They’ll also get the receivers involved to help build more chemistry before the team hunkers down together in August.

“I think a lot of guys are going to be living down here permanently. And that’s another good thing about being in L.A. now, is that people want to stay here,” Goff said. “So we’ll have, I think, basically everyone down in this area — the L.A. area. So it’ll be nice to have all of them down here and be able to continue to get work.”

I have found that teams typically spend about 50% of their cap on their top 8-9 (sometimes 10) players. Top players get 6 M or more.

In 2016, the Eagles have only 5 players who meet that definition. Their top contracts take up around 28.4% of the cap.

How do they do that? They are the opposite of the Rams—they heavily, heavily backload.

For example McL gets only 2.6 M in 2016 but then gets 9 and 10 M in 2019 and 2020. They save some if they cut him in 2018 and more if the cut him in 2019. Even then, in 2019, he represents 3+ M in dead money.

Then in 2017 they have 13 players in the “top contracts” level and assuming a 163 M cap for next year, those 13 contracts take up around 73.2% of their 2017 cap. Plus they have 6 players who together represent 14,2 M in dead money on the 2017 cap. Most of the Eagles Big 13 Contracts for 2017 come with substantial dead money hits if they are cut or traded.

In contrast, the Rams have 8 Big Contracts for 2017, which take up 46% of the 2017 cap. And 1 of those is Foles, who represents 12.2+ M in savings if cut or traded before 2017. Without Foles the percentage goes down to 38.5% and the “big contract” players go down to 7, with room left for 1-3 more to get to the normative 8, 9, ir 10. PLus as of right now the Rams have NO dead money currently counting against the 2017 cap.

Unlike the Eagles, the Rams are saving future cap space for a player or 2, obviously Donald being 1 of them.

So the Eagles appear to be the opposite of the Rams. They mortgage the future to buy things now. Rams leave space open in the future.

Mateen was ‘searching,’ ‘curious,’ says transgender woman who met him at gay club

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mateen-searching-curious-says-transgender-000000002.html

ORLANDO — A transgender woman described Orlando nightclub shooter Omar Mateen as being curious, searching, and uncomfortable when they met at a popular gay club late last year.

Daniele Tashner, 60, said she immediately recognized Mateen when he was identified as the gunman who killed 49 people and injured dozens more at the Pulse dance club in Orlando early Sunday morning.

“When they showed this guy on the news, my heart cringed and I almost broke out in tears. I saw this person about eight months ago. I actually realized that I spoke to this person for about 15 minutes sitting in a gazebo at the back of Parliament House,” she said in an interview with Yahoo News.

Parliament House is another popular gay club in Orlando that is about a 10-minute drive northwest of Pulse.

Yahoo News spoke to Tashner during a Monday night vigil, which attracted thousands of people, outside the Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts in downtown Orlando. Tashner is not an employee at Parliament House, but said she takes care of plants at the club and that customers often feel comfortable talking to her.

According to Tashner, Mateen, 29, arrived at Parliament House with a friend and introduced himself but then kept to himself and observed people in conversation. When he spoke up, she said, he had questions and was, “reaching out.”

“He was really searching. He wanted to talk. He was curious and everything. But he was real uncomfortable,” she said.

The interview about her chance encounter with Mateen comes amid reports from several outlets that the gunman had frequented Pulse and may have used gay dating apps. CNN reports that the FBI is investigating the possibility that he made surveillance trips to Pulse and Walt Disney World to stake them out as possible attack targets. NBC published a similar report saying he tried to communicate with Pulse customers on the Grindr dating app before the massacre.

Tashner said she is of Cherokee descent and identifies as “two-spirited,” which is a general term for gender nonconformists within Native American communities. Tashner was biologically male at birth but identified strongly with femininity and embraced this side of her gender identity as she grew older. She said she has known her gender identity since she was 10, but did not fully come out of the closet until age 47. Since then, she has lived “this way 24/7.”

“You need to know both of your spirits. Who is inside of you. What you are. I counsel too many people that are afraid of themselves,” she said.

Tashner said she thinks misunderstanding and ignorance too often lead to violence because anger is a natural reaction to fear and said she now wishes she could have helped educate Mateen in hopes that he might not have resorted to violence.

“I tried talking to him and I tried sharing with him. I probably didn’t get enough time to probably get the right questions that he wanted answered,” she said.

A worker at Parliament House named Christian, who asked to have his last name withheld, told Yahoo News that the Orlando LGBT community is close-knit and that many Parliament House employees and patrons are deeply hurt after Sunday’s loss of life.

“All I can say is it’s horrible what happened,” he said. “There are a lot of people that work here that have friends who were there.”

bnw wrote:

zn wrote:

Billy_T wrote:

Sigh.

Well, who can argue with “sigh”? Congrats, bnw. You won the Internet today.

;>)

Some of us have already transgressed a bit. So let’s stay inbounds now to make up for it.

What a banner day. Billy admits defeat and you complimented my mod skills. Rest assured I remain bnw, the source of reason and harmony in this Public House.

Billy_T wrote:

So let me start over. Which I hereby do.

I am personally going to stay out of any discussion that seeks to leave behind the specific legal definition of terrorism (as defined in USA law or by the UN), because in my mind letting that definition get misrepresented by people afraid of islam, especially in relation to Orlando, is dangerous.

I am not saying what you could post nor would I. Just announcing I have a very specific and focused purpose in mind here in this discussion and will be sticking to it. That is simply a description of my own intentions.

I’m fine with starting over as well, and it’s obviously your choice when it comes to what you’ll discuss here.

On definitions, from Wikipedia:

There are many reasons as to why there is no universal consensus regarding the definition of terrorism. Angus Martyn in a briefing paper for the Australian Parliament has stated that “The international community has never succeeded in developing an accepted comprehensive definition of terrorism. During the 1970s and 1980s, the United Nations attempts to define the term foundered mainly due to differences of opinion between various members about the use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination.”[7] These divergences have made it impossible to conclude a Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism that incorporates a single, all-encompassing, legally binding, criminal law definition of terrorism.[8]

In the meantime, the international community adopted a series of sectoral conventions that define and criminalize various types of terrorist activities. In addition, since 1994, the United Nations General Assembly has condemned terrorist acts using the following political description of terrorism: “Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them.”[9]

Yeah I am very familiar with the wiki definition (which I just re-read this morning) and also with the history of debates over the concept. Going way back. That debate has come up endless times in the past in discussions of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, as well as in discussions of amercian policy toward Central America, where it got fabulously twisted by the confrontations both by indigenous liberation groups and american backed death squads.

However, my point stands—I am sticking with the USA (and also the UN) LEGAL definitions of terrorism, because as I see it, that is what is at stake in discussing Orlando. It either gets taken as another “we are at war with islam” “terrorist attack” or seen (in my view) for what it is–a nutcase acting outside of the whole “islamic fundamentalist terrorist” thing.

What makes this even more loaded and problematical is that “terrorism” has become a loaded pejorative, just as “racism” has, so that it is actually challenging to keep analysis focused.

I personally think focus is important and necessary right now, given the national political climate, so will be making an effort myself to keep the focus.

….

Billy_T wrote:

ter·ror·ism
ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism

the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

That would include states.

And, yes, of course, all the sides “did it” in WWII — and most, if not all, other wars. But we have virtually no control over what these other nations decide to do, with regard to future use. We have next to no ability to control other nations along those lines. We do, however, have control over our own actions. To me, that’s why it’s more important for us to recognize and admit to our use of terrorism as a tactic, when we’ve resorted to it over time. Against striking workers, dissidents of all stripes, Native Americans, blacks (and other minorities), women, etc. etc. and overseas.

Dictionary definitions don’t help us understand and properly think about legal definitions, since those are different things.

I am not in huge favor right now of confusing the legal definition of terrorism because it plays into the hands of some very serious demagogues. Fact is, just running around with the word “terrorism” as a general damning and loaded pejorative doesn’t help that discussion.

And so you can think what you want, but, I am staying within the intelligible parameters of understanding what the legal definitions are of domestic and international terrorism, instead of participating in the whole “have an agenda, change the word” phenomena right now.

I know you like to continue old fights, but I was done with the hiroshima discussion and fully acknowledge that we see it very differently. I know there was some “ah but my opinion is the truth” stuff going on with that but I regard that as par for the course in discussions like this.

My eye is on the actual legal definition of terrorism and what it means. There are people right now being lied to about this issue in relation to this incident, so I am keeping my eye on the ball. I ask you to accept that.

…

These are important points from the article that starts this thread.

This is the kind of issue people should want to read around on…because information and good analysis will be crucial. Just spontaneous impressions will be far less useful, because those will be influenced by mass media ways of framing this. Gotta get outside the box on this one.

I have another article from the same expert up, rejecting the idea (for very good reasons) that Mateen was an actual jihadi terrorist.

Top 7 ways to tell if Someone is lying about being a ‘Salafi Jihadi’

And from the article above:

What we know about Mateen so far doesn’t indicate that he was a member of a terrorist organization. If the authorities thought that he was, the crime would have been labeled international terrorism, not domestic.

The great thing about this definition is that it focuses on the motive behind the act. And it specifies that the motive has to be to coerce people or influence or affect government policy.

So if the alleged shooter, Omar Mateen, was a terrorist you would expect him to make demands about US government policy. There will be more such acts, he would have said, unless the US government passes a law outlawing homosexuality. Or unless the US government withdraws from Afghanistan. (But if he aimed to change the latter policy, why shoot up a civilian gay club on Latin night? Wouldn’t he have targeted, say, a US Army base?)

InvaderRam wrote:

and it could be argued that it is affecting the policy and conduct of a government. look at how trump’s running with it now. trump and isis will use this for their own interests almost like a weapon.

It would be a false argument IR. It’s just a string of associations.

Terrorists act to achieve specific goals. It’s not just “let’s shoot some guys and see if it influences an election.”

As in my prior example, when the IRA was bombing London, it wasn’t just cause they wanted to see what would happen. They wanted England out of northern Ireland.

Law works by close understanding of the words, and in the case of terrorists groups, they are trying to achieve something specific. They want a specific action. For example one primary motivation for the Al Qaeda attack on the USA in 2001 was to get american military bases out of Saudi Arabia.

Vague associative indirect connections we have to guess at? That’s not why terrorists act. As perverse as it sounds, they are using “warfare by another means” (ie. without overt military forces capable of sustained combat) to achieve a specific purpose.

Anytime you hear that that purpose is vague or general, it’s because the people reporting it don’t understand it, and they are passing that lack of understanding on to you.

The Tamil Tigers waged a secessionist campaign to create an independent state of Tamil Eelam for the Tamil people in Sri Lanka. The KKK wanted to push back Reconstruction and defend racial segregation. The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia—People’s Army fights in the name of a national re-structuring to implement agrarianism and resist foreign imperialism and to that end they fund themselves by kidnapping, extortion, forced taxation, and distributing drugs.

It does not meet the definition of terrorist demands to act alone, just shoot people, see what happens, and maybe it will influence elections. IF that’s what Mateen was even thinking.

And I can tell you, if he was badgering his co-workers by saying BOTH that he was associated with Al Qaida and Hezbollah, then I know more about Islamic extremist groups than he does.

That;s like saying you’re both a member of the KKK and the Black Panthers. It makes no sense to any decently informed person.

…