Physicians Demand End To 20-Year-Old Ban On Gun Violence Research

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  • #46174
    zn
    Moderator

    Physicians Demand End To 20-Year-Old Ban On Gun Violence Research

    ALEX ZIELINSKI

    Physicians Demand End To 20-Year-Old Ban On Gun Violence Research

    Mass shootings, gang violence, domestic abuse, suicide, accidents — gun violence in the United States comes in many forms. And often. In the past week, the country has seen already two mass shootings. Every day, 89 people die because of gun-related violence. Experts estimate guns may soon surpass vehicle accidents to the country’s leading cause of deaths. President Barack Obama has repeatedly urged lawmakers to not make this the “new normal.”
    But when it comes to finding solutions to this national problem, there’s a major roadblock standing in the way. It’s been decades since any federally-funded scientific research has been done on the issue.
    That’s why members of Congress joined physicians from across the country Wednesday morning to demand an end to the Dickey Amendment, a 20-year-old law banning any federal research on gun violence.
    “Gun violence is among the most difficult public health challenges we face as a country, but because of the deeply misguided ban on research, we know very little about it,” said Rep. David Price, vice chair to the House of Representatives’ Gun Violence Prevention Task Force. “Regardless of where we stand in the debate over gun violence, we should all be able to agree that this debate should be informed by objective data and robust scientific research.”

    This ban, supported by the National Rifle Association (NRA), has effectively silenced researchers at both the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and National Institutes of Health (NIH) for conducting any comprehensive studies on what causes violence — and what can be done to prevent it — since 1996. As expected, it’s left public health experts and policymakers with little to lean on as they attempt to craft new legislation to help quell the fatal trend.
    At Wednesday’s press conference, led by Doctors for America, doctors presented a petition signed by more than 2,000 physicians in all 50 states requesting an end to the restriction.
    “It’s disappointing to me that we’ve made little progress in the past 20 years in finding solutions to gun violence,” said Dr. Nina Agrawal, who’s been a pediatrician in the South Bronx for years. “In my career, I’ve seen children lives saved from measles, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, motor vehicle accidents…because of federal scientific data and research. It’s frustrating that the CDC is not permitted to do the same type of research for gun violence.”
    Instead, GOP leaders have tried to make gun violence an issue that requires mental health research, despite the fact that less than 3 percent of U.S. crimes involve someone with a mental illness. And the most recent argument against CDC-funded research is that “a gun is not a disease” — even though the CDC has been researching motor vehicles, natural disasters, poor ventilation systems, and many other topics that wouldn’t be labeled a disease for years. The politicians behind these arguments have yet to suggest simply allocating money to another government agency.
    “Politicians have put a gag order on public health research for gun violence only to score political points,” said Rep. Carolyn Maloney, who also spoke at the event. “On public health matters, it’s critical we listen to doctors — not politicians.”

    Some have tried to roll back these restrictions before. While President Barack Obama signed an executive order following the 2012 Newtown, Connecticut school shooting to restore funds to gun violence studies, Congress has consistently blocked all requests for funding. And the law itself remains in place.
    Even the congressman who lent his name to the initial amendment, former Rep. Jay Dickey, has publicly expressed his regret for backing the bill. He lent his support to Wednesday’s press conference by sending a letter to Rep. Mike Thompson, chair of the House Gun Violence Prevention Task Force, to read at the event.
    “He was never in opposition of doing research, he was in opposition to using that to harm the Second Amendment,” Thompson explained, comparing the issue to past research on automobile deaths. “No one did it do do away with cars, because clearly you could end all auto deaths if you did away with cars. It’s ridiculous to jump to that conclusion. No one is calling [to do away with guns]. We’re calling for good public policy to get to the root of this problem we have.”
    Rep. Price stressed that press events like this are key to influencing members of Congress who are currently in negotiations for an omnibus appropriations bill that could include changes to the Dickey Amendment. The doctors present all agreed that current policy is not working.
    “Using emotions and belief systems to address policy is a bad idea and is going to get us nowhere. So to develop effective policy we must conduct evidence-based research,” said Dr. David Berman, a physician from St. Petersburg, Florida, who spoke. “Common sense dictates we need to do something about this.”
    The event ended just a few hours before news broke of a mass shooting in San Bernardino, California.

    #46180
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Well, I live in Florida, so I know… that Dr has to be crazy.

    Just sayin’…

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #46186
    wv
    Participant

    I’m not sure anything quite typifies what the Republicans have become,
    more than the law they created barring scientific research.

    I mean….just pause…and think about that.

    Does anything say “Republican” more than that?

    And i own a gun.

    w
    v

    #46190
    bnw
    Blocked

    I’m not sure anything quite typifies what the Republicans have become,
    more than the law they created barring scientific research.

    I mean….just pause…and think about that.

    Does anything say “Republican” more than that?

    And i own a gun.

    w
    v

    Why fund research with a known political agenda? We already have enough of that nonsense occurring with global warming “research”.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46191
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    I’m not sure anything quite typifies what the Republicans have become,
    more than the law they created barring scientific research.

    I mean….just pause…and think about that.

    Does anything say “Republican” more than that?

    And i own a gun.

    w
    v

    Why fund research with a known political agenda? We already have enough of that nonsense occurring with global warming “research”.

    Preventing research because the republicans and NRA might not like the results is their political agenda.

    The NRA is afraid of research into gun violence because they know what it will reveal. And they know what the solution is. It’s the solution that Australia, Canada and other countries have already figured out.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by nittany ram.
    #46200
    bnw
    Blocked

    I’m not sure anything quite typifies what the Republicans have become,
    more than the law they created barring scientific research.

    I mean….just pause…and think about that.

    Does anything say “Republican” more than that?

    And i own a gun.

    w
    v

    Why fund research with a known political agenda? We already have enough of that nonsense occurring with global warming “research”.

    Preventing research because the republicans and NRA might not like the results is their political agenda.

    The NRA is afraid of research into gun violence because they know what it will reveal. And they know what the solution is. It’s the solution that Australia, Canada and other countries have already figured out.

    We already have the statistics from the FBI. Research isn’t needed. Gun violence has DECREASED. Would be great to see research into violence to self and others caused by SSRI antidepressant users.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46207
    zn
    Moderator

    We already have the statistics from the FBI. Research isn’t needed.

    They BANNED it.

    The United States of America…BANNED research funding.

    The FBI does some stuff? So what? That’s like shutting down every university and research facility in the world because quote unquote “we already have 1 that does that.”

    If you can’t admit there’s an agenda behind this, it will knock your credibility into a permanent no-recovery zone.

    This one is way past obvious.

    #46214
    bnw
    Blocked

    We already have the statistics from the FBI. Research isn’t needed.

    They BANNED it.

    The United States of America…BANNED research funding.

    The FBI does some stuff? So what? That’s like shutting down every university and research facility in the world because quote unquote “we already have 1 that does that.”

    If you can’t admit there’s an agenda behind this, it will knock your credibility into a permanent no-recovery zone.

    This one is way past obvious.

    That is attacking the poster. Stop it.

    We have the statistics. The FBI generates all sorts of such statistics. Gun violence has decreased. What could the research possibly say other than no gun no gun violence. Duh. Only worth spending if you have an agenda. Duh.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46216
    wv
    Participant

    We already have the statistics from the FBI. Research isn’t needed.

    They BANNED it.

    The United States of America…BANNED research funding.

    The FBI does some stuff? So what? That’s like shutting down every university and research facility in the world because quote unquote “we already have 1 that does that.”

    If you can’t admit there’s an agenda behind this, it will knock your credibility into a permanent no-recovery zone.

    This one is way past obvious.

    That is attacking the poster. Stop it.

    We have the statistics. The FBI generates all sorts of such statistics. Gun violence has decreased. What could the research possibly say other than no gun no gun violence. Duh. Only worth spending if you have an agenda. Duh.

    ================

    If it were true that more scientific-research would simply back up what the FBI has
    already proven, then….the Republicans would NOT be afraid of the research. They would NOT have banned science if they thought it would back up their agenda.

    You know that.

    w
    v

    #46218
    bnw
    Blocked

    We already have the statistics from the FBI. Research isn’t needed.

    They BANNED it.

    The United States of America…BANNED research funding.

    The FBI does some stuff? So what? That’s like shutting down every university and research facility in the world because quote unquote “we already have 1 that does that.”

    If you can’t admit there’s an agenda behind this, it will knock your credibility into a permanent no-recovery zone.

    This one is way past obvious.

    That is attacking the poster. Stop it.

    We have the statistics. The FBI generates all sorts of such statistics. Gun violence has decreased. What could the research possibly say other than no gun no gun violence. Duh. Only worth spending if you have an agenda. Duh.

    ================

    If it were true that more scientific-research would simply back up what the FBI has
    already proven, then….the Republicans would NOT be afraid of the research. They would NOT have banned science if they thought it would back up their agenda.

    You know that.

    w
    v

    No I don’t. How could you? You propose an impossible scenario.

    “If it were true that more scientific-research would simply back up what the FBI has
    already proven”

    That reads as though you already know the what the research will say!

    No research is needed. We have the statistics. Gun violence has decreased.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46219
    Billy_T
    Participant

    That reads as though you already know the what the research will say!

    No research is needed. We have the statistics. Gun violence has decreased.

    Guns kill more than 33,000 Americans each year. Even if this total is a “decline”
    from previous highs, it’s still a huge number. And the ease with which people can buy guns, especially high-capacity guns, is the biggest cause for those deaths. Hell, toddlers have already killed more people this year than died in Orlando. Toddlers!

    It’s the guns. No other weapon makes it so easy to kill, which is why it’s the weapon of choice for rapists, thieves, killers, mass shooters. And when someone wants to kill a LOT of people, they choose semi-automatics/some form of assault weapon. And it’s the high capacity of those weapons which enables mass slaughter. Without that capacity, the killer simply can’t take out as many human beings.

    Common sense and logic tells us that they shouldn’t be available, to anyone. There is simply no reason for a citizen to have a semi-automatic/assault style/military style weapon. None. Zero. Zilch. And they’re simply too dangerous to Americans.

    #46223
    zn
    Moderator

    That reads as though you already know the what the research will say!

    No one knows what research that is yet to be done will say.

    What it sounds like is the banners themselves are AFRAID of what it will say. Otherwise why ban it (and warning in advance–no one is going to buy the “avoids duplication” routine. Not anyone. Count on that.)

    And again all of this is just plain openly obvious.

    They would NOT have banned science if they thought it would back up their agenda.

    You know that.

    w
    v

    Agreed.

    #46224
    zn
    Moderator

    As expected, it’s left public health experts and policymakers with little to lean on as they attempt to craft new legislation to help quell the fatal trend.

    Even the congressman who lent his name to the initial amendment, former Rep. Jay Dickey, has publicly expressed his regret for backing the bill.

    FBI stats simply record incidents involving gun use in crimes. It is not equipped to, nor does it seek to, explore the possibility that there are more general causes of gun-related injuries and deaths.

    The issue goes way beyond simply crimes.

    #46225
    wv
    Participant

    We already have the statistics from the FBI. Research isn’t needed.

    They BANNED it.

    The United States of America…BANNED research funding.

    The FBI does some stuff? So what? That’s like shutting down every university and research facility in the world because quote unquote “we already have 1 that does that.”

    If you can’t admit there’s an agenda behind this, it will knock your credibility into a permanent no-recovery zone.

    This one is way past obvious.

    That is attacking the poster. Stop it.

    We have the statistics. The FBI generates all sorts of such statistics. Gun violence has decreased. What could the research possibly say other than no gun no gun violence. Duh. Only worth spending if you have an agenda. Duh.

    ================

    If it were true that more scientific-research would simply back up what the FBI has
    already proven, then….the Republicans would NOT be afraid of the research. They would NOT have banned science if they thought it would back up their agenda.

    You know that.

    w
    v

    No I don’t. How could you? You propose an impossible scenario.

    “If it were true that more scientific-research would simply back up what the FBI has
    already proven”

    That reads as though you already know the what the research will say!

    No research is needed. We have the statistics. Gun violence has decreased.

    ————-
    smile…sigh 🙂

    …btw, i heard on the radio that the murder rate is up 17 percent in the big cities. A researcher has dubbed it the “ferguson effect” or something like that. There were differing interpretatiosn of what the ‘ferguson effect’ was, etc.

    I would like to see more science, more research on murder in America. The FBI stats are hardly the end of the story. They are the beginning.

    And honestly i dont care what the science shows. Remember I have a gun. I’m from west by god virginia. We come out of the womb with muskets.
    And i havent really taken a position on “assault weapons” one way or another.

    I dont have an ‘agenda’ on that issue — I want more science on it. I am not afraid of what the science would show. The Reps are. Its the only explanation for Banning SCIENCE.

    w
    v

    #46227
    bnw
    Blocked

    That reads as though you already know the what the research will say!

    No research is needed. We have the statistics. Gun violence has decreased.

    Guns kill more than 33,000 Americans each year. Even if this total is a “decline”
    from previous highs, it’s still a huge number. And the ease with which people can buy guns, especially high-capacity guns, is the biggest cause for those deaths. Hell, toddlers have already killed more people this year than died in Orlando. Toddlers!

    It’s the guns. No other weapon makes it so easy to kill, which is why it’s the weapon of choice for rapists, thieves, killers, mass shooters. And when someone wants to kill a LOT of people, they choose semi-automatics/some form of assault weapon. And it’s the high capacity of those weapons which enables mass slaughter. Without that capacity, the killer simply can’t take out as many human beings.

    Common sense and logic tells us that they shouldn’t be available, to anyone. There is simply no reason for a citizen to have a semi-automatic/assault style/military style weapon. None. Zero. Zilch. And they’re simply too dangerous to Americans.

    No it is not the gun. It is people. Whether mental illness, rage, neglect, carelessness etc. the gun did not discharge on its own. Capacity BS. Anyone that wanted to give such heinous goal a thought can achieve more without a firearm. 2nd Amendment is a right and must not be infringed because a few people abuse it.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46228
    Billy_T
    Participant

    No it is not the gun. It is people. Whether mental illness, rage, neglect, carelessness etc. the gun did not discharge on its own. Capacity BS. Anyone that wanted to give such heinous goal a thought can achieve more without a firearm. 2nd Amendment is a right and must not be infringed because a few people abuse it.

    It is people WITH guns. “Guns” are the common denominator, and the only thing we can control for. We can’t change people, or predict their actions. But we can make it impossible for them to obtain weapons of mass destruction.

    And, again, your 2nd amendment right has never included unlimited consumer choice, or unlimited access to any gun you might want, or unlimited lethality. It just says “keep and bear arms” if you’re a part of the state militia — which no longer exist.

    Your rights wouldn’t be “infringed” one iota if we banned all semis/assault/military style weapons. Not one iota.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by Billy_T.
    #46231
    bnw
    Blocked

    We already have the statistics from the FBI. Research isn’t needed.

    They BANNED it.

    The United States of America…BANNED research funding.

    The FBI does some stuff? So what? That’s like shutting down every university and research facility in the world because quote unquote “we already have 1 that does that.”

    If you can’t admit there’s an agenda behind this, it will knock your credibility into a permanent no-recovery zone.

    This one is way past obvious.

    That is attacking the poster. Stop it.

    We have the statistics. The FBI generates all sorts of such statistics. Gun violence has decreased. What could the research possibly say other than no gun no gun violence. Duh. Only worth spending if you have an agenda. Duh.

    ================

    If it were true that more scientific-research would simply back up what the FBI has
    already proven, then….the Republicans would NOT be afraid of the research. They would NOT have banned science if they thought it would back up their agenda.

    You know that.

    w
    v

    No I don’t. How could you? You propose an impossible scenario.

    “If it were true that more scientific-research would simply back up what the FBI has
    already proven”

    That reads as though you already know the what the research will say!

    No research is needed. We have the statistics. Gun violence has decreased.

    ————-
    smile…sigh 🙂

    …btw, i heard on the radio that the murder rate is up 17 percent in the big cities. A researcher has dubbed it the “ferguson effect” or something like that. There were differing interpretatiosn of what the ‘ferguson effect’ was, etc.

    I would like to see more science, more research on murder in America. The FBI stats are hardly the end of the story. They are the beginning.

    And honestly i dont care what the science shows. Remember I have a gun. I’m from west by god virginia. We come out of the womb with muskets.
    And i havent really taken a position on “assault weapons” one way or another.

    I dont have an ‘agenda’ on that issue — I want more science on it. I am not afraid of what the science would show. The Reps are. Its the only explanation for Banning SCIENCE.

    w
    v

    I’m from Tennessee the land of unlawful search and seizure. What? Just one gun? A musket?

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46232
    bnw
    Blocked

    No it is not the gun. It is people. Whether mental illness, rage, neglect, carelessness etc. the gun did not discharge on its own. Capacity BS. Anyone that wanted to give such heinous goal a thought can achieve more without a firearm. 2nd Amendment is a right and must not be infringed because a few people abuse it.

    It is people WITH guns. “Guns” are the common denominator, and the only thing we can control for. We can’t change people, or predict their actions. But we can make it impossible for them to obtain weapons of mass destruction.

    And, again, your 2nd amendment right has never included unlimited consumer choice, or unlimited access to any gun you might want, or unlimited lethality. It just says “keep and bear arms” if you’re a part of the state militia — which no longer exist.

    Your rights wouldn’t be “infringed” one iota if we banned all semis/assault/military style weapons. Not one iota.

    Wrong again. I do admire consistency.

    We can teach people the proper way to handle firearms. Preferably in the schools. It wasn’t that long ago that high schools actually did this. Should be taught much earlier. Kids are being raised by neurotic nanny staters who raise kids ignorant regarding the actual safe handling of firearms much less the best course of action which is to not handle the weapon at all and alert an adult. But with gangster rap, shoot ’em up movies and obscenely violent video games a generation of idiots is created who are incapable of understanding the real life consequences of their emulating the actions they have seen on video. Yet given the choice between a violent video game and a BB gun the nanny staters choose the video game which ends up desensitizing the kid to violence. Dereliction in parenting.

    Yet even with proper emphasis and training bad things can happen. It is life.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46235
    Zooey
    Participant

    Two things Americans just can NOT talk about:

    Abortion

    and guns.

    There is no conversation to be had. The two sides talk completely passed each other, and are talking about completely different values/standards of measurement. The twain shall never meet.

    For years, gun control advocates have tried to negotiate with the NRA.

    This Orlando slaughter seems to be a possible tipping point in which the gun control side of the debate has recognized that it is time to stop appeasing the unappeasible, and is going to ram through something that may possibly be significant.

    But don’t expect any gun lovers to go gently into that good night.

    This isn’t a negotiation. This is leverage.

    #46237
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Zooey,

    Very true. There is no common ground on this issue between the disputants. Though a majority of Americans side with implementing gun control measures. It’s actually “popular.” Unfortunately, our elected leaders have feet of clay and are afraid of a demented minority.

    I can only hope that changes someday. The slaughter in Orlando was preventable, and that makes it even more “senseless.”

    #46241
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    Zooey,

    Very true. There is no common ground on this issue between the disputants. Though a majority of Americans side with implementing gun control measures. It’s actually “popular.”

    Indeed, even Bill O’Reilly, the biggest right wing bloviator this side of Rush Limbaugh is for tougher gun control laws now.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-oreilly-takes-stunning-stance-154449244.html

    Poles consistently show that upwards of 80% of the population are for stricter gun regulations. Legislators are WAY out of touch with what the public wants on this issue.

    #46242
    zn
    Moderator

    There is no conversation to be had. The two sides talk completely passed each other, and are talking about completely different values/standards of measurement. The twain shall never meet.

    Though a majority of Americans side with implementing gun control measures. It’s actually “popular.” Unfortunately, our elected leaders have feet of clay and are afraid of a demented minority.

    The power of a lobby I guess.

    I don’t suppose there;s a counter-lobby, though at the same time that shouldn’t be how a real democracy works anyway.

    #46243
    canadaram
    Participant

    I assumed that this was an article from the Onion. Sadly I was incorrect.

    #46247
    wv
    Participant

    I’m from Tennessee the land of unlawful search and seizure. What? Just one gun? A musket?

    ———–

    I agree with you, btw, that political-folk will always want to twist the science.
    The various interest-groups on the liberal-side may very well twist the science findings one way. And the rightwing-interest-groups may very well twist the science in a different direction. But I dont blame ‘science’ for any of that. Science is just science.

    So, lets not ban science just because one group or another might twist the findings.

    Instead lets work for an educated public that can understand science on their own.

    Ok, thats my last word on the gun-shit. I’m way more interested in building a revolution to overthrow corporate-capitalism. I cant be bothered by band-aid issues 🙂

    w
    v

    #46260
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I call the gun people’s bluff.

    Pull the guns and let’s see what happens. Let people go on “stabbing rampages” and we’ll see what the deal is. Not that I want that to happen, but I don’t think we’ll be seeing the kinds of devastation we see regularly with guns.

    Let’s do it. Let’s call the bluff.

    Cuz I call bullshit. Total and complete bullshit.

    This isn’t a debate or an argument. It’s complete and utter preference.

    A segment of the population wants something and that something results in the senseless deaths of a lot of people. It’s time for that to end.

    But I’m with you, WV.

    If we overthrow the corporate-capitalist stuff, it’ll be so much easier to deal with issues like this…

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #46276
    bnw
    Blocked

    I call the gun people’s bluff.

    Pull the guns and let’s see what happens. Let people go on “stabbing rampages” and we’ll see what the deal is. Not that I want that to happen, but I don’t think we’ll be seeing the kinds of devastation we see regularly with guns.

    Let’s do it. Let’s call the bluff.

    Cuz I call bullshit. Total and complete bullshit.

    This isn’t a debate or an argument. It’s complete and utter preference.

    A segment of the population wants something and that something results in the senseless deaths of a lot of people. It’s time for that to end.

    But I’m with you, WV.

    If we overthrow the corporate-capitalist stuff, it’ll be so much easier to deal with issues like this…

    You know your “A segment of the population wants something and that something results in the senseless deaths of a lot of people. It’s time for that to end. ” logic could be applied to alcohol and tobacco too among other things.

    You give up your 2nd Amendment right but don’t you dare take mine. And that goes for the rest of the BOR too.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46285
    wv
    Participant

    I call the gun people’s bluff.

    Pull the guns and let’s see what happens. Let people go on “stabbing rampages” and we’ll see what the deal is. Not that I want that to happen, but I don’t think we’ll be seeing the kinds of devastation we see regularly with guns.

    Let’s do it. Let’s call the bluff.

    Cuz I call bullshit. Total and complete bullshit.

    This isn’t a debate or an argument. It’s complete and utter preference.

    A segment of the population wants something and that something results in the senseless deaths of a lot of people. It’s time for that to end.

    But I’m with you, WV.

    If we overthrow the corporate-capitalist stuff, it’ll be so much easier to deal with issues like this…

    =======================

    Mack, people are afraid. Lots of real, palpable FEAR out there in the land.
    Fear of being attacked, raped, mugged, humiliated, emasculated.

    That fear aint going away. Its getting worse, as society continues to crack
    and disintegrate, and the rich get richer and the rest get more vulnerable to “street
    crime.” The gun mania is a side-effect of corporate-capitalism.

    That fear is not going to be trumped by ‘reason’ or logic. Thats why MORE guns are gonna be sold after this latest murder-spree, not less. More.

    The kindergarten murders didnt lead to any gun-control and this wont either.
    And the next wont either…

    Too much real fear out there.

    Did you ever see the Louie CK episode where Louie is bullied by a tough guy?
    Louie’s character is humiliated by this ruffian in front of his date while they
    are in a diner. If you’ve seen that show, you will recognize what the gun-control folks are up against. That was a fictional episode of course, but it hit on a fear
    that is at the bottom of the American male soul. Until people feel safe, they are not
    gonna change the laws.

    Just my opinion, but i dont see any change coming from this latest massacre. Cept more fear, and more gun sales. Heck i bet half the people that survived that thing will go out and buy guns now.

    w
    v

    #46287
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/06/15/gun-shop-owner-ar-15s-flying-off-shelves-at-500-pop.html

    Gun Shop Owner: AR-15’s Flying Off Shelves at $500 a Pop
    By Nick Giampia Published June 15, 2016 Politics

    Since the Orlando nightclub shooting on Sunday, gun sales have rapidly increased throughout the United States.

    Adventure Outdoors Owner Jay Wallace told Fox Business Network’s Stuart Varney that sales of AR-15s and other firearms have “really kicked up” since Sunday.

    AR-15’s may look like military rifles but they are actually semi-automatic guns, which means they can only fire one round with each pull of the trigger. By contrast, military-style guns have the ability to fire multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger. The ‘AR’ in AR-15 actually stands for ArmaLite rifle, named after the company that developed it and does not stand for “assault rifle,” according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

    Wallace claimed that he has sold more than 15 AR-15’s per hour and may know the reasons as to why there is such a rise in sales.

    “[People] are afraid that the government is going to take [guns] away and there are folks that are in fear because of the times that we are living in today and those are two big reasons,” he said.

    Wallace said some people buy the guns for profit gain as well.

    “There are also those that feel that the guns are going to go up in value so they buy them for investment,” he said. “[AR-15s] start out around $500 and go up to $3,000,” he said

    Wallace said the last time he had seen such a surge in gun sales was when President Obama was first elected into office.

    #46288
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    Wallace said the last time he had seen such a surge in gun sales was when President Obama was first elected into office.

    LOL

    This illustrates the very reason why the second amendment exists in the first place…

    cuz the white man is afraid of the black man.

    #46292
    wv
    Participant

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/06/15/gun-shop-owner-ar-15s-flying-off-shelves-at-500-pop.html

    Gun Shop Owner: AR-15’s Flying Off Shelves at $500 a Pop
    By Nick Giampia Published June 15, 2016 Politics

    Since the Orlando nightclub shooting on Sunday, gun sales have rapidly increased throughout the United States.

    Adventure Outdoors Owner Jay Wallace told Fox Business Network’s Stuart Varney that sales of AR-15s and other firearms have “really kicked up” since Sunday.

    AR-15’s may look like military rifles but they are actually semi-automatic guns, which means they can only fire one round with each pull of the trigger. By contrast, military-style guns have the ability to fire multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger. The ‘AR’ in AR-15 actually stands for ArmaLite rifle, named after the company that developed it and does not stand for “assault rifle,” according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

    Wallace claimed that he has sold more than 15 AR-15’s per hour and may know the reasons as to why there is such a rise in sales.

    “[People] are afraid that the government is going to take [guns] away and there are folks that are in fear because of the times that we are living in today and those are two big reasons,” he said.

    Wallace said some people buy the guns for profit gain as well.

    “There are also those that feel that the guns are going to go up in value so they buy them for investment,” he said. “[AR-15s] start out around $500 and go up to $3,000,” he said

    Wallace said the last time he had seen such a surge in gun sales was when President Obama was first elected into office.

    ===============

    So the gun is not an ‘automatic’ weapon its a ‘semi-automatic’. Not that it matters to me, but…fwiw.

    And the “fear of the government TAKING the guns’ is only the top layer of fear.

    Whats underneath that layer? I mean why do people CARE whether the “gubmunt takes their guns” ?

    They care cause they are AFRAID of getting raped, murdered, emasculated, humiliated, kidnapped, by the ‘other’. (whoever the ‘other’ happens to be in their minds)

    And that primal fear gets WORSE every time there’s a massacre, not better. It gets worse.

    So while the Obama’s are talking about being reasonable (and obama has body-guards and doesnt live ‘on the street’ where things are dangerous), the gun-lovers are acting from a place of primal-fear. And there aint no ‘gettin thru to them’ on this. They are afraid of getting kilt. Or worse.

    And…its not a totally unfounded fear. Its just not.

    I dont really care one way or another about gun control btw. I’m ok with it, but I dont really think it will do much good. Or harm. Too many guns already out there. Too easy to get them. And i do think poor people ought to be able to protect themselves from the wolves.
    w
    v

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