Zooey wrote:

But…how was it sold?

Because Jews did not suddenly form an army and invade. They had help. And did the UN just say, “Hey, we’re giving all the land from here-to-here to the Jews to form a country, and that’s that.” Or did they try the smoother “We recognize the independence movement of these poor people dispossessed here in Palestine, and we are taking their side in the conflict.” Or what? I’ve always assumed it was the former. But all I have ever seen in documentaries or what I’ve read is just…Israel was formed in blah blah blah, and people went there from all over the world” like it was just the wilds of Alaska or something.

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Well, I’m no expert.
I like this article though, just as food for thot, on some general notions and myths:
link:https://portside.org/2020-07-22/forgotten-history-jewish-anti-zionist-left

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Its a long complicated history, as you know.
Various factions of zionists, and non-zionists, and semi-zionists argued, conversed, debated and wondered about a ‘homeland’ for decades.

After the Holocaust an organized form of zionism kinda emerged and grew, and they lobbied the US/Britain/The UN. (The UN basically was the US and Britain). “We deserve a homeland” “Israel is where are roots are” “God promised us this land”

An undercurrent of racism was always part of the project. The Arabs are primitive savages, etc.

So Britain/UN just carves up the Middle-East.
Partly out of a sense that ‘we gotta give these poor jews a safe home’ and
partly because of a sense of anti-semitism: “we dont want these damn jews in our country.”
And partly because of geo-political reasons, etc.

So the UN/Britain just drew fucking lines in the sand, and gave the Zionists the best land.

Gosh, what could possibly go wrong with the idea that the UN/Britain/US should just be able to carve up the middle-east ?

In essence it was ‘sold’ the way all colonial projects are sold. With lies, half-truths, backed by powerful-military-force.

I mean the Jews do deserve a homeland as much as any group I can think of, but that doesnt mean a super-power can just carve up a populated area and give it to them. But they did.

I’ve always thought, if i could put one single human history story in a time capsule for aliens to read after the final apocalypse, it would be the Story of the Jews and Palestinians. The story has everything. Every kind of fucked up human drama and poignancy. The victims become the victimizers, etc, etc, etc.

zn wrote:

<
It’s always good to hear from Giants fans.

I grudgingly admire Giants fans since unlike them I could not bear to live in North Korea.

Well, its always been about the helmets for me.

w
v

Zooey wrote:

So if Hitler had never done his Hitler thing, the state of Israel presumably would not exist.

Right?

I am not sure that causal relationship ever dawned on me before which is kind of embarrassing because it seems pretty obvious.

I know there were Jews in Palestine, but I never heard/read that there was any kind of serious drive to form an independent country, but there must have been something. I can’t imagine that the UN just planted a country there without some kind of pre-existing political base in Palestine. Anybody know?

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It ‘might’ still have come about, but who knows. From talking to Jews (and dating a Jew) I can tell you that the Holocaust did indeed ‘change everything’ for many of them and lead to a white-hot-focus on creating a safe-space. There’s even a whole body of jewish-literature on how the Holocaust kinda created this…oh…this ‘fuck God’ attitude among many Jews. God ‘broke the covenant’ so fuck him, and fuck the palestinians and fuck the liberals and lets just survive by creating our own fucking safe-place. No-one is going to help us, no-one is going to protect us, not even God — so, right or wrong, we need Israel.

Etc, and so forth.

So yeah, Hitler certainly was a huge factor in creating Israel. And the Occupation. And the Fuck-the-Palestinians and everyone else attitude.

Thousands of years of persecution and THEN Hitler. Kinda hard to play nice, after all that.

w
v

Trump Declares He’s Healthier Than Ever While Addressing Rally Crowd From Iron Lung https://t.co/sRQkoN9dtQ pic.twitter.com/Tljowpwehx

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Joe Biden has a preposterous definition of the middle class that as president would hamper his ability to enact smart policies.
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Heard this: “Its now the Allas Cowboys, because they have no D”

w
v

InvaderRam wrote:

wv wrote:

I dunno, but i just think this is what the Rams Offense looks like when you take away the run. The Giants took away the run. And when that happens, all those short passes by the rams dont amount to much.

right now i’m thinking it’s one of two things.

either mcvay has no plan for when the rams run game is stalled.

or mcvay knows the oline can’t hold up if they go too pass heavy.

the other possibility of course is that goff needs the run game to thrive. i don’t think that’s the case though. goff looked good today.

===================

I think Sunday was more about the Giants than the Rams. I think the Giants had a great gameplan and their Defense must have some good players to execute it so well. Their offense didnt make mistakes and give the game away.

I have to say, i like the Rams defense, given the new rules that make it so easy for offenses. There’s never gonna be anymore 70’s-Rams/Steelers/Cowboys/Vikings Defenses. So, while the Rams defense will get torched from time to time, It feels like the new defense is better than Wade’s defense. Looks to me, like McVay made the right decision. And i was a total-skeptic.

This defense just looks trickier to me. More dangerous. I assume they havent really hit their stride yet.

Good to see old-man-Brockers getting some heat on the QB.

Jones was very very lucky to get that strip-sack-fumble back. Bounced right back to him. That would have changed the game.

w
v

I watched it.

Cant say i was impressed with the Giants QB. I think I’d rather have the Jets QB.

I dunno, but i just think this is what the Rams Offense looks like when you take away the run. The Giants took away the run. And when that happens, all those short passes by the rams dont amount to much.

All four games have been close, and hard-fought. (I actually think the Eagles may be the best team they’ve played) I love the fact they have won three out of four close games. The New-England-Way. Ya know. They dont beat themselves. They play smart.

They seem more physical this year. And thats also a New England thing.
That is not how they seemed to me, during the Gurley years.

Goff looks fine.

I like the way Henderson is holding the ball this year. Last year, i held my breath everytime he ran the ball.

They look like a playoff team to me. But then so do about ten other teams in the NFC. Lotta parity in the NFC.

w
v

Zooey wrote:

Whatever… The next two months are going to make us forget about the first nine, I think.

=================

Fuck Trump, fuck the proud-boys, Just pray for BIDEN.
Know one will know.

w
v

Socialists’ goal isn’t to destroy liberalism, but to transcend its limitations — pairing civil liberties and other liberal rights with a democratic, egalitarian foundation that makes those rights real. https://t.co/cbdp5JAERJ

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Naomi aint playin. Damn.
—————

.@NaomiAKlein: Trump getting COVID is "the epidemiological equivalent of a mass shooting where the shooter opens fire on the crowd, and then turns the gun on himself. This is not a tragic accident — it is a crime scene, and should be treated as such." https://t.co/AkIKrh7wyS pic.twitter.com/d89LFG5Q5V

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Imagine if liberals valued the life of the brown people Obama droned striked the same way they valued Trump's

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