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September 6, 2014 at 3:23 pm in reply to: If the Rams offense can have an effective passing game and put at least 25 point #6323
InvaderRam
Moderatori think this is a reasonable expectation. the offense should be better than last year. but more than that. i think the defense will be better. this will result in more turnovers, better field position, and maybe even some more touchdowns.
i think 25 points is possible.
InvaderRam
Moderatori don’t know about 13-3. but i like the optimism. i really like shaun hill. i think he’s a definite upgrade from last year, and i think we improve at most positions through experience alone.
i still think dallas, philadelphia, and the second seattle game are potential stumbling blocks, so i’d go 10-6.
September 6, 2014 at 3:05 pm in reply to: how much you want to bet that Stacy is actually better than Cunningham #6321InvaderRam
Moderatori think tre mason ends up being the best of all of them. he’s got the wiggle and vision that cunningham lacks. and the burst that stacy lacks.
he just needs to learn how to block.
InvaderRam
Moderatormy only hope is that time has caught up to adrian peterson.
he’s sitting at 2000 carries right now. right about the time nfl running backs start breaking down.
he’s 29 years old which is old for a running back. if he’s lucky, he’s got one solid season left in him. but i’m not sure we gotta worry about a 200 yard game from him.
i hope.
InvaderRam
Moderatori’m actually gaining confidence. i think you make good points.
but i think shaun hill surprises. he’s got a very good cast around him.
also i think the niners are on their way down. i think their window has passed. guys are getting old and suspended. i think the rams have a clear shot and overtaking them. they won’t reach the seahawks, but i think they’re more than capable of taking second place. i’m predicting 10-6.
InvaderRam
Moderatori expect us to see a lot of different things come sunday.
donald has been up and down this preseason. i think it goes to show just how difficult the defensive tackle position can be. even for someone as pro-ready as donald.
by the end of the season, i think we start to see the real aaron donald.
InvaderRam
Moderatori don’t think the article was that bad. i think sam catches on somewhere. i think the response to sam has been mostly positive. he has the seventh highest selling jersey. someone is going to sign this guy.
InvaderRam
Moderatorit makes the most sense to me to see either the chargers or rams move to los angeles. they have an existing fan base there. the raiders? probably not solid enough of an organization for the nfl to be supportive of that decision.
August 26, 2014 at 12:13 am in reply to: for those who are arguing Rams shoulda drafted a qb high #5169InvaderRam
Moderatorwith the other qbs it was well you gotta draft qb such and such because you need a qb and qbs are such a valuable commodity in today’s nfl…
with luck it was well you gotta draft him cuz he’s the best player available in this draft.
it was pretty much universally agreed that qbs are getting overdrafted because of their position. even bradford. suh was regarded as the best player available, but the rams drafted sam because… he was a qb. in retrospect, mccoy woulda been the best pick but that’s a different argument.
with luck. he was considered the best prospect period. that’s how i saw it.
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This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by
InvaderRam.
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This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by
InvaderRam.
InvaderRam
Moderatorbradford’s injury can be overcome. like many have said here over and over again you just feel worse for bradford than the rams. that should always be true. but it’s especially true in this case. hill will be fine in this offense. oline has to get it together. i’m not as impressed with the running offense as most were. i think there’s a lot of work to do there still. and the wide receivers are the best they’ve had in some time. at least better than any in the last three years. so they should help out the qb too.
i’m also expecting big things out of the defense even though the secondary is looking kind of shaky right now.
InvaderRam
Moderatorhere’s another article i found interesting. i’ll just include one part but provide the link. i wonder if bradford has narrow notches. i wonder in general how strong his ligaments are. he’s had three severe ligament injuries already in 5 years.
http://www.txsportsmed.com/acl.php
Are certain athletes predisposed to the injury?
Dr. Souryal: My study was the first to describe the link between bony anatomy and ACL tears and to describe the way of measuring it. We found that a certain segment of the population has a bone structure that predisposes them to an ACL tear. The ACL and posterior cruciate ligament (PCL) live in a tunnel at the end of your thigh bone. If that tunnel is very narrow (which you can detect by X-ray), then there’s no room for the ACL to maneuver in cutting activity, and those people are at 26 times more risk of tearing an ACL.
In 1992, we took X-rays of 1,000 high school athletes’ knees and followed them for the next two years. Whenever a player went down with an ACL injury, we looked at his notch. And it was phenomenal: The kids who were blowing out their ACLs all had those narrow notches. We stopped the study early because the numbers were so dramatic. I’m sure that there are a lot of factors that go into ACL injuries — the notch is just one of them — and the biggest question right now is, what lives inside the narrow notch? Does a small ACL live in a narrow notch and tears because it’s never had the room to grow properly? Or does a normal-sized ACL live in the small notch and ruptures because it doesn’t have the room? We don’t have answers because we’re not doing surgery on uninjured people and measuring their ACLs.
As a next phase, we’re waiting for MRIs to get a bit clearer to allow us to measure the normal ACLs in the notches. Maybe in the next couple of years, we’ll be able to answer the question. If it is a normal-sized ACL in the notch, then maybe we can go in there surgically and widen the notch, and perhaps save that person from an ACL rupture. But if it’s an underdeveloped ACL in that narrow notch, you can widen the notch all day long and you’re not going to fix it. Once we get this question answered, maybe we can do something about people with the predisposition.
In ’92, we found that girls have proportionally narrower notches than boys. Does that have anything to do with the fact that ACL injuries are epidemic among females? I don’t know, but I certainly do think that it’s one factor. Other factors have to do with muscle development and neuromuscular coordination, because the boys are encouraged to be active athletically almost from birth. They may develop better neuromuscular coordination and therefore are somewhat protected as they get into high school and college. Girls are not necessarily directed into athletics early in life, and as they become more athletically active in their teens, they may not have the neuromuscular coordination that boys have. The bottom line is that nobody knows for sure. But there’s definitely a higher incidence of ACL ruptures in female athletes than in male athletes.
InvaderRam
Moderatorbut yeah. going back to my ap statement. that was wrong. 95% are a success. so that’s not the exception. i was going overboard. but again. maybe not enough attention was focused on the possibility of failure. what is the recovery rate then? i’m sure the doctors went over this with bradford.
in the end. sam is a competitor. and he was probably thinking i can do it. 5% is an acceptable risk to me. well now. he’s that exception. now what is the prognosis for recovery for that second tear?
the one article said 14%. but again. most people don’t get the best surgeon to do their reconstructive surgery so maybe it’s even lower than that. and that doesn’t take into account if the injury was isolated or not. and most people probably don’t go through the extensive rehab process that these athletes do. but if sam wants to be sure of a complete recovery. he better take the two full years to recover. which seems to be the best option at this point. anytime you have to go in a second time. you’re doing more damage. healing of that area is going to take longer than before. so if two years is ideal for first reconstructive surgery, then second reconstructive surgery should be longer than that. and even then. how long is that joint going to last? i read somewhere that acl surgeries last on average about 10 years. well. is that for professional athletes or just the general population? if it’s for the general population, then for professional athletes, it goes way down i’m sure.
InvaderRam
Moderatorthose discussions weren’t part of the consideration because doctors in the end are businessmen. they’re interested in their bottom line. their interests are often in making the patient feel as positive about their experience as they possibly can. did the doctors go over all the possible scenarios with bradford? did they tell him the risks of a re-tear and the prognosis if it did happen?
the professional athlete. and any patient for that matter. wants better treatment. they want it faster. and they should. but doctors are always going to tow the line between acceptable risk and getting as many patients and cash as they can.
my sense is that they still don’t know a lot about acl surgeries. the wash u article is from 2011. this second article is from 2013. and the sense that i get is that they are still learning about the rehab process. what is most effective? what is the recovery time? they have an inkling. but no concrete answers. my guess is that after 3 years, they still don’t know much. they know more. but still learning.
now is this what they want the public to know? is this what they want the patient to know? that they still don’t know a lot about it? most likely they’d rather keep the patient in the dark and be as positive and reassuring as they can. it’s in THEIR best interests to be that way. and pretty soon we’ll all hear about another success story, and we’ll forget about all the risks of coming back too early.
i’m being too harsh i realize. i’m not trying to paint some dark evil picture. i’m sorry if it’s coming across that way.
and that statement about ap. that was overboard. but i still stand by my opinion that it sounds like to me. the recovery period should be longer. but the public and the athletes want faster and better and doctors and trainers probably feel obliged to comply.
August 25, 2014 at 9:15 pm in reply to: for those who are arguing Rams shoulda drafted a qb high #5126InvaderRam
Moderatoroh i didn’t either. i shouldn’t have said “shoulda been considered” because at the time i was happy with the qb situation and confident that bradford would come back healthy. i guess my main point was that i didn’t like any of the qbs in 2014 at all. they were all over-drafted. bortles for example should have been a mid-first round pick at best.
i’m hoping the 2015 class is better.
InvaderRam
Moderatorhere’s some more articles. i think the basic gist is they don’t know much. which is often the case in science. they just don’t like to admit it.
and these kinds of injuries are hard to study because there are so few athletes like professional ones who are constantly subjecting their joints to undue stress.
adrian peterson is the exception. not the rule.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130711084135.htm
InvaderRam
Moderatorwell this is an article on second acl surgeries and why they fail.
one other thing i want to add. a lot also depends on the extent of damage. bradford’s was isolated meaning the other ligaments and cartilage were apparently intact. so he has that going for him. alexander’s injury i believe was not isolated. it probably looked like a plate of spaghetti in there.
http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/22661.aspx
Sports medicine specialists at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis are leading a national study analyzing why a second surgery to reconstruct a tear in the knee’s anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) carries a high risk of bad outcomes.
More than 200,000 ACL reconstruction surgeries are performed each year in the United States, and 1 percent to 8 percent fail for some reason. Most of those patients then opt to have their knee ligament reconstructed a second time, but the failure rate on those subsequent surgeries is almost 14 percent.
The Washington University group has received a $2.6 million grant from the National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases and is leading dozens of surgeons across the nation in one of the largest orthopedic, multicenter studies ever conducted. The MARS study (Mutlicenter ACL Revision Study) is comparing surgical techniques and analyzing outcomes for patients undergoing ACL surgery to learn why a subsequent reconstruction is more likely to fail than an initial ACL repair.
“If I reconstruct the ACL in your knee, and you go back to sports, and three years later you pivot on a basketball court and tear it again, that subsequent surgery often does not have results equal to the original surgery,” says Rick W. Wright, MD, the MARS study’s principal investigator. “In a previous study, we found that the strongest predictor for a bad outcome after ACL surgery was whether that surgery was the initial reconstruction or a subsequent procedure.”
Wright, professor of orthopaedic surgery, co-chief of Washington University’s Sports Medicine Service and an orthopedic surgeon at Barnes-Jewish Hospital, has helped recruit 87 surgeons from 52 centers to participate in the MARS study. All are sports medicine specialists who are members of the American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine. Surgeons involved in the study include both academic physicians and those in private practice.
During ACL reconstruction, surgeons sometimes replace the torn knee ligament with a ligament transplanted from a cadaver. In other cases, the surgeon will move a piece of the hamstring muscle or the patellar tendon and attach it in place of the torn ligament.
Wright and his colleagues are recruiting patients for the MARS study who have a second tear of the ACL. They plan to enroll 1,000 patients at the various centers around the country and follow them for at least two years to identify predictors of problems after surgery.
Surgeons will note the condition of the knee and how the original surgery was performed to see whether that predicts problems with a subsequent operation. They also will make note of the surgical technique initially used and whether the ACL graft used in the initial reconstruction came from a cadaver, from the hamstring muscle or from the patellar tendon.
Surgeons also will compare rehabilitation techniques and whether particular approaches are related to better, or worse, outcomes. Patients also will be surveyed about their knee function, the general state of their health and their quality of life before and after a second ACL surgery.
Those participating in the MARS study must be older than 12, but there is no upper age limit.
“By definition, most of the people in the study will be active,” Wright says. “ Most are athletes who want to continue to compete, but the study also is open to those who just need knee surgery so they can get back to work.”
The ACL plays a crucial role in our ability to cut, jump, twist and change directions. Even in people who don’t compete in sports, ACL tears are related to having a knee give out, and when that happens, says Wright, it can damage the knee’s meniscus, the rubbery disc that cushions the knee and keeps it steady. If the knee gives out it also can tear cartilage in the joint, contribute to arthritis and increase the risk that an individual will someday require total knee replacement surgery.
InvaderRam
Moderatorand to be completely honest, doctors have an agenda too.
let’s take professional athlete x.
he goes to doctor a who tells him yes i can do the surgery and get you back on the field within a year.
he then goes to doctor b who tells him yes i can do the surgery but it will take two full years before you see any competitive action.
they then see adrian peterson come back in less than a year.
who do you think they’re gonna take their business to?
people rarely take the time to do the real research. most times they probably don’t even want to hear it.
InvaderRam
Moderatorthen why are re-tears so frequent in the first year?
why?
you really think if the majority of re-tears happen in the first year that the knee has fully healed? it may have been revolutionized, but we know for a fact the nfl brings back players when they’re not completely healthy.
InvaderRam
Moderatori believe the nfl wants us to believe that it has been revolutionized. and it may have.
but i have every reason to believe that the nfl brings back players earlier than they really should.
every single article i read has said that the first year back carries a huge risk for a re-tear. why is that? probably because it’s in its initial healing period. wait two years. and the probablity goes down. there’s a reason for that.
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This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by
InvaderRam.
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This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by
zn.
August 25, 2014 at 8:22 pm in reply to: for those who are arguing Rams shoulda drafted a qb high #5113InvaderRam
ModeratorWell, I think the key for THIS YEAR was that none of the available guys were all that good.
Had there been a real stud in the draft, then given Sam’s injury history it should have been seriously considered. <y sense is that they DID consider it, but never saw a guy worth taking.In response to your long term argument about the relative values of QBs and team building, I think I’ll just say this.
Very few QBs drafted high are worth the hype.
But, occasionally a guy does make a difference and raises a team. Both Luck and RG III did.
And good teams ARE held back by lousy QBing. Hell, our fine 70s and 80s teams were.
So, in the end, I’d say it comes down to genuine quality. A truly special QB is damn rare. Don’t trade away the farm seeking one in bets … but do take one if you get the chance.
yup. but i would add. even if there was a prospect like a flacco or a roethlisberger. even that shoulda been considered. but there wasn’t even that. maybe bortles? i don’t know.
hopefully, in 2015, there will be some prospects in the middle of the first round.
InvaderRam
Moderatorwell. this is what i would do and probably not what the rams would do and probably why i would never even sniff a job in coaching.
now depending on what the doctors say. and i would get like 10 different opinions after they’ve done their separate diagnoses. if i’m confident he has a reasonable chance of coming back from the surgery, i would talk to sam about getting a two year extension at a very low salary. that extension hopefully cuts down on the salary cap impact 2015 would have. i don’t know. i don’t even know if that’s possible. but if it was. that’s what i would do.
i would then tell him to take two full years off. he can practice and get reps but no contact whatsoever. let that knee completely heal. have him wear a heavy brace while he’s practicing.
this benefits bradford. i don’t think it’s in his best interests to shop around for a deal with some other team. he knows this coaching staff. training staff. teammates. he knows the offense. when he comes back. there’s no transition period there. the only thing he has to worry about is getting healthy. unless of course the coaching staff is fired. which who knows. that could happen. target 2016 as his return date.
in the meantime, the rams draft a legitimate qb prospect in 2015 and groom him in the event of any setback or even as competition for sam.
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This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by
InvaderRam.
InvaderRam
Moderatorhe is at a special risk for another though. it’s a fact. a second tear has a worse prognosis. from every single piece of evidence i’ve read. that is the case.
InvaderRam
Moderatorok. well according to article zn posted he didn’t feel much pain because the newly reconstructed joint hadn’t had time to be properly innervated and didn’t have a blood supply.
also. in an ideal world a player would have 2 years to properly heal but since this is the nfl and we’re not interested in a player’s long-term health they usually are back in less than a year.
on re-tears the rate of return decreases significantly. on the first, it’s 95%. i’ve read that the prognosis usually decreases 2 fold. that article was dated 2013, so i’m thinking that it drops to around 90%. the article i read said 11% i think (or 89%).
the guy doesn’t think bradford is injury prone. i don’t agree, but he’s a doctor. so what do i know? i guess he’s alluding to the fact that re-tears aren’t uncommon in the first year. but so what? they’re running out of options on ligaments they can salvage from other parts of his body. my guess is these other options are less effective. the last resort is using a ligament from a cadaver which has the worst prognosis.
regardless. do i take a chance and come back in a year when i know this is my last chance? or close to it? when i know that it takes two full years for the joint to properly heal. to have a fresh supply of nerves and blood to replenish it. or do i come back in 6 to 9 months and just go for it.
best possible thing for sam is to wait more than a year. that puts him well into the regular season next year. in an ideal world. he doesn’t even play in 2015 taking a full two years off. most he sees is a practice field.
i just see what happened to danario. i don’t want to see the same happen to sam. whether he’s with the rams or not.
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This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by
InvaderRam.
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This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by
InvaderRam.
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This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by
InvaderRam.
August 25, 2014 at 7:00 pm in reply to: ACL re-tears are more common in the first year back: on Bradford #5092InvaderRam
ModeratorI am not criticizing St. Louis doctors or Bradford’s surgeon. Early return has become the industry standard. In a perfect world, an athlete would sit out two seasons before playing, but this is simply not practical.
The statistics show Bradford has an uphill battle ahead of him. 95 percent of athletes return to the same level of play after their first ACL injury. That rate of return drops considerably after a second same-knee ACL tear. Given this injury is likely isolated, I believe Bradford still has an excellent chance to return despite the longer odds.
it’s gonna take a year. at least. the rate of return drops considerably according to this guy. so my guess is it’s a longer time for recovery.
and to be fair to bradford. he might really want to consider taking longer than that.
InvaderRam
Moderatorhe seems to have versatility too. he can line up at defensive tackle or defensive end.
InvaderRam
Moderatoryeah. rams will be fine. it’s bradford who your heart goes out to.
rams don’t need another kurt warner to come in and save this team. they need a caretaker. that’s it.
honestly. regarding the rams. i’m more worried about trumaine than i am bradford. that secondary looks not good. not good at all.
InvaderRam
Moderatorit only seems fair that they pay him this year. the rehabilitation costs alone have to be through the roof. astronomical i would think. and he got injured on the job. so he should be compensated for that. next year though. i don’t know how that all works.
tough tough break. i was so sure he was gonna have a good year this year.
InvaderRam
Moderatoryeah. you don’t need a great qb for this team to do well. just a competent one. so there’s that.
InvaderRam
Moderatorgood. i hope the rams wouldn’t want him either. hill’s better than he is…
August 24, 2014 at 10:30 pm in reply to: who should start? will they trade for someone? who? qb discussion #4950InvaderRam
Moderatormaybe we could get jeff hostetler? hehe.
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