Who Will Replace Fisher?

i’m not going to say whether he should be fired or not. but if he was, i’d want josh mcdaniels.

If I had my wish, barring a miracle. He has to finish 10-6 to get a one year extension. If he does not, I’m looking for someone new to take over. Names I have been thinking of are, Teryl Austin DC Detroit Lions, Darrell Bevell OC Seattle Seahawks, Ken Norton Jr. DC Oakland Raiders.

InvaderRam wrote:

i’m not going to say whether he should be fired or not. but if he was, i’d want josh mcdaniels.

Really? But he’s been a failure everywhere he didn’t have Tom Brady.

Remember how clueless he was as the Rams OC?

Maybe he’s learned a thing or two since then but he wouldn’t be one of my choices.

Although if Fisher was fired, I’m not sure who I would want to replace him. I haven’t been that thrilled with the lists of ‘hot’ coaching prospects I’ve seen.

Maybe if they coaxed Chucky or Cowher out of retirement…

nittany ram wrote:

InvaderRam wrote:

i’m not going to say whether he should be fired or not. but if he was, i’d want josh mcdaniels.

Really? But he’s been a failure everywhere he didn’t have Tom Brady.

Remember how clueless he was as the Rams OC?

Maybe he’s learned a thing or two since then but he wouldn’t be one of my choices.

Although if Fisher was fired, I’m not sure who I would want to replace him. I haven’t been that thrilled with the lists of ‘hot’ coaching prospects I’ve seen.

Maybe if they coaxed Chucky or Cowher out of retirement…

i’m guessing he’s learned from his mistakes.

I’m indifferent when it comes to Fisher’s future as the Rams HC. Sometimes me being that way makes me feel like I’m a bad Rams fan. When I see some of the internet hysteria about Fisher, I ask myself why am I not taking up the fire Fisher cause? What’s wrong with me? I still like the Rams just as I’ve always have since the 70s. Therefore, I should probably curse Fisher’s existence, but I don’t. If someone wants to take my Rams Fan membership card away from me I’d understand.

Anyway, if Fisher is fired some names that would interest me to replace him include Kyle Shanahan, Rob Chudzinski, David Shaw and Jim Harbaugh. Although, if I’m Shaw or Harbaugh I would never want to leave my college gig.

kyle shanahan.

whoever it is i want an offensive mind. and someone who can bring a more aggressive mindset. doesn’t necessarily have to be more pass oriented. just more creative.

PA Ram wrote:

Make it happen:

Please, no…he wrecked the team he inherited from Vermeil last time he was the HC.

PA Ram wrote:

Jeff Fisher: 31-41 0 playoff appearences. Highest fisnish 3rd in NFC West.

Mike Martz: 53-32 3-4 in playoffs

As you know, I think records taken in themselves can often hide more than they reveal.

Here’s what I can say about both records.

Martz inherited a built team and then destroyed it. He at least had 2 qbs. So to me his record is the story of wasting an opportunity…the downward angle of his season records being an effect of that.

Fisher actually had to build a team, and in fact had to do it twice, while losing qbs right and left and finally starting a rookie. I cannot imagine Martz doing any better under the same circumstances.

The numbers themselves, taken in themselves, hide more than they reveal. Which is usually the case. We know that if we take (say) 4 different coaches with the same record, we could actually find 4 different situations. The raw unanalyzed record would not reveal that stuff. You have to look.

PA Ram wrote:

I don’t know, zn. I don’t think it’s fair to give a guy who has had 5 years to build HIS team,

Well he didn’t though. That’s not the reality. He had 5 years to start building it then to make up for repeated losses at qb and on the OL.

And of course it’s fair to say what I am saying (which isn’t what you said I was saying, you erased the crucial “losing qbs and linemen and having to start over” factor). It’s fair because to me it accounts for the reality.

How was Martz without either Warner or Bulger? Not counting 2005, which is a mess, he went 6-6.

How many games did Fisher have a healthy and/or not melted down starting caliber qb? Counting Goff, it’s 18 of 74.

Leave fair out of it. It’s right and valid in terms of analysis to include those issues.

Otherwise, IMO you’re not really looking at the reality. I really believe that.

To say Fisher had 5 years to build is not accurate. He had 5 years that were marred by having to start over—twice. That’s the reality, and I do not see how Martz would do any better under the same conditions (that being not having a starting caliber qb for more than 75% of his games).

As for your dismissal of Weinke, the actual truth is, you have no idea. None. You have no idea whatsoever how good he is. I will say this. Mannion looked much better in the summer of 2016 than he did in the summer of 2015. That means he developed. It’s not conclusive but it suggests the Rams coaches can develop a qb.

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InvaderRam wrote:

i think he’s had enough time to retool the offensive line. the wide receivers. it was his decision to sign guys like cook, britt. draft quick, pead, robinson… austin doesn’t even offer anything on special teams anymore. not worth the contract he was given.

he traded for foles. these decisions lie at his feet.

i give him credit for taking the team as far as he did. and maybe kroenke recognizes this and extends him, but i wouldn’t be disappointed if they went another direction.

i even heard rumors of him taking a front office job. maybe they do that and hire a new hc. preferably i’d want someone with experience working with qbs.

I see all sorts of teams doing fine with receivers of the Rams quality–who will look better when they have a qb. To me that’s a non-issue. It’s not “core.”

I am not putting Foles at anyone’s feet. No one predicted anything like that meltdown. Because it was not predictable. Fisher is about as responsible for that as he is for Bradford’s injuries, or as responsible McCarthy is for Rodgers declining, or as responsible Arians is for Palmer declining.

And he used his time to built OLs well. He built one. The 2013 OL was functional. It was ripped apart by injuries. The only issue with the 2016 OL, IMO, is how inexperienced it is. We have already seen signs that it will do fine.

So it gets back to the real basic point. Name any coach who has done well when he was not able to play a starting caliber qb in 75% of his games.

Other than the, to me, not very convincing effort to blame Foles on Fisher, that fact stands out. And it’s not being dealt with. So on one board people are telling me you can’t blame Arians for Palmer’s decline, and on another board people are telling me that the qb’s decline is the coach’s fault.

Either way, no coach does well when he’s playing back-up caliber qbs (or sometimes worse) in 75% of his games. Martz certainly would not do well under those conditions…why would Fisher.

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PA Ram wrote:

Make it happen:

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Id be happy with Martz, as long as he couldn’t buy the groceries.

I’ve often wondered what a team with Martz as OC and GWilliams as DC would be like.

At any rate, it wont be Martz. Fisher will be extended for a year or two.
I’d fire Fisher myself. Though I’m not all rabid about it.

w
v

zn wrote:

PA Ram wrote:

As for your dismissal of Weinke, the actual truth is, you have no idea. None. You have no idea whatsoever how good he is. I will say this. Mannion looked much better in the summer of 2016 than he did in the summer of 2015. That means he developed. It’s not conclusive but it suggests the Rams coaches can develop a qb.

What I actually said was that I’d rather have Martz teach Goff. Who would you rather have?

You’re right. I don’t know about Weinke. But I’d rather have Martz for that role. It isn’t JUST Weinke. It’s Boras. It’s Fisher. All contribute to what Goff will become. I’m not crazy about that.

How many seasons should we give Fisher? Should we wait until everything is perfect? No injuries. No distractions? Perfect weather?

Any coach would take that. THAT’S not reality. Good coaches will find a way.

Make no mistake. THIS is Fisher’s team. HE built it.

This is also a DUMB team. They make dumb mistakes at critical times. They are his players.

Their head just doesn’t seem like it’s always in the game or game situations.

A fumble here, a penalty there, an int there, a blown timeout here and on and on.

They are his dumb team.

But we’ll give him 5 more years of 4-6 starts to fix it. Unless there are injuries or QB challenges. Then he’ll get 5 more.

I get patience–I do. But this guy has a record zn. You can’t make excuses for 21 years of mediocrity. It just doesn’t work.

Look—I do like Martz but maybe he is a poor choice, I don’t know. Like you–none of us know who would be the right choice. Neither do the Rams. But I do believe they should make a change. I do believe that. And I just am tired of this rinse and repeat over and over again. Yes–it’s taking a risk. It could be a disaster. But living in mediocrity is its own kind of disaster too.

Martz didn’t “find a way,” he lost his way. He took one of the best teams in NFL history and slowly eroded it. And when the quality fell apart he didn’t “find a way”…and that’s even with a qb (Bulger).

Arians isn’t “finding a way” with a declining Palmer. McCarthy isn’t “finding a way” with a declining Rodgers. Harbaugh isn’t “finding a way” with an off-year Flacco.

Who would I rather have teaching Goff? Lombardi.

I think the whole “good coaches find a way” thing is mythology. Name me actual real coaches who did well while starting back-up caliber qbs (and sometimes worse) for 75% of their games. I prefer the evidence of history. History tells me—no, coaches as a rule simply do not do as well if they play back-up caliber qbs the majority of the time. And I have no reason to believe Martz would do any better under the same conditions. He might actually do worse.

I am real big on history, contexts, looking at situations. That has always been true.

AND on top of it, you don’t need to win the “who does well with back-up qbs starting the majority of the time” battle. All you have to say is I don’t care, I don’t like Fisher anyway. Then we’re just voting differently in an informal poll. (Which IMO is the final truth of this anyway.) Which basically you did say. You vote for change. I don;t, or not yet anyway (and the truth is, I am not AGAINST it. I just don’t think comparing two vastly different situations like Martz and Fisher gets at “the truth.” I think it still comes down to value judgments and preferences.)

I will say this. On other boards, this kind of discussion is fraught and loaded and as often as not, personal. Here, I think people get the principle that you can disagree with a poster in one thread and at the same time agree in another. We don’t let the discussion get loaded and antagonistic.

If you don’t agree, then you’re under arrest. Don’t tempt me either.

…

Again zn, as I have said, this is Fisher’s 5th year, and this team should be considered a Super Bowl contender with the Seahawks, Cowboys, Patriots, Raiders, etc.

I will say this. On other boards, this kind of discussion is fraught and loaded and as often as not, personal. Here, I think people get the principle that you can disagree with a poster in one thread and at the same time agree in another. We don’t let the discussion get loaded and antagonistic.

If you don’t agree, then you’re under arrest. Don’t tempt me either.

Of course I would never take personal offense or offer it to anyone here, who I consider friends after so many years together. But I do get passionate from time to time. I would hope that I am staying on the side of the rode that holds that passion to the subject at hand and doesn’t drift over to the side of the road that is personal territory. I don’t feel personal about any of it. I appreciate a forum to vent about these things. None of it holds any more weight beyond my personal feelings about the subject. I’m not trying to win an argument so much as trying to express why I personally feel how I do about something.

Everyone is entitled to their own feelings on the subject.

Even if I’m right. 🙂

wv wrote:

zn wrote:

I will say this. On other boards, this kind of discussion is fraught and loaded and as often as not, personal. Here, I think people get the principle that you can disagree with a poster in one thread and at the same time agree in another. We don’t let the discussion get loaded and antagonistic.

If you don’t agree, then you’re under arrest. Don’t tempt me either.

…

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As i recall the GSOT Defense just blew up after the 99 season. Lots of injuries and age caught up with em, right. It wasn’t Martz fault. He actually rebuilt the D with Lovie as i recall.

And didnt Martz ‘ask’ for a good personnel guy and zygmunt/georgia/shaw wouldnt give him one? Or somethin like that?

w
v

The 2001 defense fell apart too. Cause of things like thinking Jimmy Kennedy was worth a high pick. In 2000, though, he ran an offensive draft in a year when they were returning 4 starting DL who had all had off-season surgery. Now THERE’S a warning sign.

Martz WANTED a huge say in personnel.

No what he asked for (and didn’t get) was a pro personnel guy. That’s a very specific thing that would have helped. But only so much. Look at those drafts from those years, which are filled with Martz decisions.

Either way one key point…when he did not have either Warner or Bulger, Martz went 6-6 (not counting 2005 which is harder to sort out).

Why? Cause that’s about what you expect from back-up qbs, regardless of the coach.

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