Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › time to take the political compass poll again
- This topic has 59 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 5 months ago by Billy_T.
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June 6, 2016 at 9:05 pm #45509znModerator
Here. Many are familiar with it.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Scroll down, the quiz starts at the bottom of the page (on my screen).
Here are my results:
June 7, 2016 at 7:32 am #45532nittany ramModeratorI don’t know how to copy the chart here, but here are my coordinates. My position on the chart would be similar to zn’s.
Your Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.56- This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by nittany ram.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by nittany ram.
June 7, 2016 at 7:35 am #45534Billy_TParticipantYour Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -9.0
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.67June 7, 2016 at 7:36 am #45536Billy_TParticipantNittany,
Right click on the image, left click on “copy image location.” I put it inside the Huddle’s “img” code.
June 7, 2016 at 8:45 am #45538DakParticipantJune 7, 2016 at 9:21 am #45540Billy_TParticipantAbout this test:
On another forum, nearly a year ago, I had the toughest time trying to get through to a right-libertarian (propertarian) about how the scores were done. No matter how I reworded things to say the top to bottom scores had nothing to do with the left to right scores, he just wasn’t buying it. In his mind, apparently, the further left someone goes on the spectrum, the more authoritarian they have to be. I actually placed well below him on the anti-authoritarian scale — almost to bottom (meaning extremely anti-authoritarian) — but because I was also very much “far left,” he refused to believe I was anything but a Stalinist. He was incapable of seeing any leftist as “libertarian” or anti-authoritarian, even though, historically, the left wrote the book on those things, not the right.
Societal brainwashing, etc. etc.
One would think in the Age of the Internet this would be less prevalent than it is. But if you investigate how leftist thought is depicted (when it isn’t silenced altogether), how “socialism” is defined (and by whom), it’s not surprising. Web software, the kind used to customize your news sources on this or that app, for example, has become blatantly tilted to the right. Search for “socialism” in the Itunes library, for instance, and you’re likely to find “definitions” from mises.org or some other propertarian organization, and pretty much never by actual leftists. Same goes for Google apps.
Silicon Valley is dominated by right-libertarian billionaires, as gatekeepers, and they do what they can — consciously or subconsciously — to steer the average Joe or Jane away from leftist thought. The main method for doing this appears to be . . . never let leftists speak for themselves. Never point to actual leftist writers and writings, if you can, instead, point to third and fourth-hand accounts coming from the right.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by Billy_T.
June 7, 2016 at 10:12 am #45543znModeratorWell we can note one difference, which is pretty universal.
To a rightie, the dems are “the left.”
To actual leftists, dems are simply not “the left.” As in, no way.
It;s like a Hindu, a Muslim, and an Orthodox Jew arguing over what people can eat.
June 7, 2016 at 11:30 am #45546ZooeyModeratorWhat Billy and zn say here matches my experience, too. The concept of anti-authoritarian leftist territory is completely unthinkable to people. It doesn’t exist. It CANNOT exist. There is no such thing. And, invariably, the rightie sees no distinction between Dems and the left. That is how it is possible for them to think that Obama is a socialist, or “leans” towards socialism. A socialist knows that Obama is closer to Bush than he is to socialism.
But in trying to make this point, what I often experience is the person I am talking to tries to tell me I am incorrect about what I think. Liberals are even harder to talk to than conservatives.
Last night I heard a Hillary supporter expressing her frustration at Sanders and his supporters, saying “WE ARE ON THE SAME SIDE!”
No. No they’re not.
I may retake the test. To the best of my recollection, I was somewhere around -8.5, -8.5 last time I took it.
June 7, 2016 at 12:23 pm #45547znModeratorBut in trying to make this point, what I often experience is the person I am talking to tries to tell me I am incorrect about what I think.
Man, I get that sometimes too.
According to mainstream thinking the dem party is “the left.”
But to me, as someone genuinely on the actual left, that’s like saying that baseball IS football.
Then I get told what being left means. Which, of course, as a leftist, I know ISNT what it means.
It;s like people who are born with only green and red color cones in their eyes and you have all three, and they keep telling you what blue looks like.
June 7, 2016 at 12:25 pm #45548bnwBlockedAlmost a bullseye.
Economic Left/Right: -1.0
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.26The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
June 7, 2016 at 2:35 pm #45553Billy_TParticipantWe can probably thank the Soviet Union in general, and Lenin and the Bolsheviks, in particular, for a great deal of the distortions. If, for instance, mainstream Marxist, socialist and communist traditions had won out there, instead of right-Marxist Bolsheviks, history may well have seen a large scale demonstration of left-anarchism, which is anti-authoritarian by nature. It would have been nearly impossible to associate “the left” with authoritarian or totalitarian governments.
Of course, given that we have had many examples of supremely authoritarian governments coming from the right — Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Spain, Portugal and Japan, etc. etc. — it’s more than bizarre that “the right” has escaped from the same kind of association. This may be due, at least in part, to a highly successful propaganda campaign, pinning those political forms on the left — which has gained steam in the last two decades. Once the stuff of fringe thinkers, this absurd view of fascism and nazism has gone mainstream, even among some Republicans pols. Dictionaries and encyclopedias once said up front that fascism and nazism were right-wing ideologies. Few say so now.
I’m also guessing that the ever increasing consolidation of media has much to do with this. Money talks, etc. etc.
June 7, 2016 at 2:59 pm #45558OzonerangerParticipantJune 7, 2016 at 3:48 pm #45559ZooeyModeratorBut in trying to make this point, what I often experience is the person I am talking to tries to tell me I am incorrect about what I think.
Man, I get that sometimes too.
According to mainstream thinking the dem party is “the left.”
But to me, as someone genuinely on the actual left, that’s like saying that baseball IS football.
Then I get told what being left means. Which, of course, as a leftist, I know ISNT what it means.
It;s like people who are born with only green and red color cones in their eyes and you have all three, and they keep telling you what blue looks like.
And let me guess…Clinton is in the upper right quadrant, and I am in the lower left quadrant, but righties are gonna tell me that we are the same. As do Clinton supporters, btw, and Clinton herself. “We need to unify….”
Yeah…we’re not the same.
June 7, 2016 at 4:22 pm #45560Billy_TParticipantZooey,
Good points.
Clinton and the Dem establishment are much closer to people like Mitch McConnell and the Republican establishment than they are to virtually any Sanders supporter. And the gap is even greater between the Dems and the anticapitalist left. Sanders doesn’t really go there, and I’m guessing the core of his support doesn’t either. But it’s still night and day, Clinton and Sanders.
Obama fits in there, too. I have always liked the guy on a personal level, but he’s governed all too much like a Republican. As did Bill. It’s really amazing how much hatred they both seemed to inspire from “conservatives” while governing as conservatives.
This really needs to change: America has long had the choice of A or B, instead of an A to Z range. Two wings of the same party. Wildly different styles. But the same basic imperatives:
Protect the ruling class, at all cost. Expand capitalism throughout the world, regardless of costs. Keep the people as docile as possible, for as long as possible, by any means necessary. Not sure how much longer the center can hold.
June 7, 2016 at 6:33 pm #45570bnwBlockedZooey,
Good points.
Clinton and the Dem establishment are much closer to people like Mitch McConnell and the Republican establishment than they are to virtually any Sanders supporter. And the gap is even greater between the Dems and the anticapitalist left. Sanders doesn’t really go there, and I’m guessing the core of his support doesn’t either. But it’s still night and day, Clinton and Sanders.
Obama fits in there, too. I have always liked the guy on a personal level, but he’s governed all too much like a Republican. As did Bill. It’s really amazing how much hatred they both seemed to inspire from “conservatives” while governing as conservatives.
This really needs to change: America has long had the choice of A or B, instead of an A to Z range. Two wings of the same party. Wildly different styles. But the same basic imperatives:
Protect the ruling class, at all cost. Expand capitalism throughout the world, regardless of costs. Keep the people as docile as possible, for as long as possible, by any means necessary. Not sure how much longer the center can hold.
Obama doesn’t,t govern as a conservative! how bizarre!
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
June 7, 2016 at 7:28 pm #45574Billy_TParticipantObama doesn’t,t govern as a conservative! how bizarre!
Bizarre, fer sure. But it’s true. Obama has governed as a conservative.
Of course, no American president has ever governed with complete ideological consistency/purity. But, overall, the vast majority of Obama’s policies and proposals would have been supported by Republicans, as is, if he were a Republican. In many ways, in fact, Obama has been a much better Republican than presidents Reagan, Bush Sr. and Dubya.
As in: Obama pushed for massive deficit reduction and a deficit commission in the midst of a terrible economic downturn. He oversaw the loss of 800,000 public sector jobs during that downturn. He froze federal pay and hiring during that downturn. Reagan, Bush Sr. and Dubya all wildly increased spending in the face of recessions; oversaw the hiring of more than one million new public sector employees, each, on their respective watches; and they never held deficit commissions.
Obama re-upped the (supposedly temporary) Bush tax cuts twice and made them permanent. He rehired Bush’s Fed chairman, and his defense secretary. He kept Bush’s bailouts of Wall Street and Detroit going. He never went after Wall Street crooks, shielding them from prosecution. He shielded Bush/Cheney and their respective admins from prosecution, when they easily could have and should have been frog-marched into the Hague.
He expanded the Bush wars, increased the size and scope of the “GWOT.” He expanded the surveillance state, and went after Occupy. He pushed for TPP and other very conservative trade agreements. His state department was/is aggressive in ramming capitalism down the throats of other nations, especially in Central and South America, advocating (for our capitalists) the privatization of public sector after public sector.
The ACA is a very conservative law, based on the Heritage Foundation proposal, later implemented by Romney in Massachusetts. Obama and the Dems prevented any talk of Single Payer, and kicked even the public option under the bus. Rather than try to resolve our health care debacle through non-profit, universal care, he and the Dems chose the “market solutions” approach, by keeping it for-profit and selective, which is why it’s so expensive in the first place.
The above is just for starters.
I’m pretty confident you can’t name any of his policies that aren’t conservative, outside a coupla “culture war” things like Same Sex Marriage. When I bring this up to conservatives, they never can. But they still insist Obama is a “liberal,” despite the record.
June 7, 2016 at 10:22 pm #45582bnwBlockedBS! Obama has been a monumental fuck up. ACA is NOT a conservative program. It wasn’t passed in a conservative manner either. Romney wasn’t a conservative either. To someone as far away from the center as you Obama and Romney appear conservative but not to a conservative voter.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
June 8, 2016 at 1:16 am #45586MackeyserModeratorHere’s mine. It’s -8.38, -7.54.
So, other than ozone and bnw and maybe dak, I guess that makes me the Thatcher of the group…LOL.
I’ve come a LOOOOONG way from my initial days of the Herd when I was in the top right quadrant a lil bit…
I’d say I’ve changed, but it’s not so much that as I just finally got right with my principles and core fundamental beliefs in a real way as it relates to all human beings on the planet.
As I had to confront the truths beyond all sorts of borders, I got to where I am today and I’m never going back.
I decided that I’m not only going to vote for Dr Jill Stein, but I’m gonna donate enough to get a t-shirt so I can wear it around town.
Do Greenies make cool Tees? I’ll wear a whack Tee, but it’d obviously be better if it were cooler.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by Mackeyser.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
June 8, 2016 at 9:53 am #45598bnwBlockedWhat is a whack tee? The wearer is marked for assassination?
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
June 8, 2016 at 10:43 am #45613PA RamParticipantWow! Some of you commies on this board are REALLY extreme. I am in the sensible center–of the left–or just below center but certainly normal.
And of course I am correct on everything I believe. If you matched my results–congratulations! You win! Otherwise–I don’t know what world you live in.
Actually I hate tests like this. I’m always turning the questions over in my mind in different ways and depending how I think about it I can give a different answer.
But I’m on the left–obviously–and that’s no surprise.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
June 8, 2016 at 11:23 am #45621wvParticipantThe usual. Left-libertarian.
Your Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -9.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92There were some questions (as always) where I didnt really like any of the answers.
For example this one —
“There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.”I think ALL peoples have savage AND civilized aspects to their cultures,
but as to whether some cultures are ‘worse’ than others….man, that is a tough call for me.
I think about that one every single day. How do we weigh different aspect of culture. How do we weigh, say, genital mutilation versus cluster-bombing civilians? How do we weigh heavy-patriarchy versus head-shrinking? Toxic-waste versus collateral damage? Etc, etc, etc.I dunno. I’m open to the idea that some cultures are better than others. But I’m also open to the idea that that is not true. And I’m open to the idea that its an unknowable issue.
w
vw
vJune 8, 2016 at 11:31 am #45623wvParticipantWe can probably thank the Soviet Union in general, and Lenin and the Bolsheviks, in particular, for a great deal of the distortions. If, for instance, mainstream Marxist, socialist and communist traditions had won out there, instead of right-Marxist Bolsheviks, history may well have seen a large scale demonstration of left-anarchism, which is anti-authoritarian by nature. ..
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I think thats probly true.Stalin, Lenin, really gave the ‘left’ a bad name.
And the Corporate-capitalist propagandists have been pounding away
at the idea that THAT is what socialism IS, for decades.
And they have succeeded beautifully in persuading Joe and Jane American
that, there’s only one kind of socialism and its “godless and evil”.Its as if everyone believed there was only one kind of “Christianity”
and that was the kind the Ku Klux Klan believed in. Rather than, say, the Quakers, or Unitarians, etc.w
vJune 8, 2016 at 11:37 am #45624wvParticipant… Romney wasn’t a conservative either. To someone as far away from the center as you Obama and Romney appear conservative but not to a conservative voter.
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Well the leftists here agree — Obama has been a monumental fuck-up.Now think about that. To the LEFTISTS here we agree. Obama has been a total fuck up.
Now, how do you account for that. The Leftists dont like Obama. Or Clinton.
What does that tell you about the difference between a Democrat/liberal
and…a…”huddle-board-Leftist” ?I can see how you would interpret things as Obama not being a “conservative” btw. I can see that. You are more of a Pat Buchanon / Donald Trump person, right? Obama does have plenty of differences from Trump/Buchanon.
w
vJune 8, 2016 at 11:41 am #45625wvParticipantI decided that I’m not only going to vote for Dr Jill Stein, but I’m gonna donate enough to get a t-shirt so I can wear it around town.
Do Greenies make cool Tees? I’ll wear a whack Tee, but it’d obviously be better if it were cooler.
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Yeah, after the Calif result, I guess its time i took down my Bernie sign, and made a big green Jill sign.Maybe I’ll get a Tee shirt too. Or maybe I’ll just get some green textile paint
and a white shirt and make my own. Maybe have a green paint party.bnw has to be loving this — we’re gonna get Trump elected, LoL.
Well, so be it.
w
v- This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by wv.
June 8, 2016 at 11:56 am #45627ZooeyModeratorI dunno what the hell happened in California. Sanders had closed to within 2% of Clinton in the polls. And the polls are of “likely voters” which does not include a lot of young voters (who have no landlines) and not any of the newly registered voters (and there were 1.5 million new voters). I thought Sanders would win California.
This morning, as I cruise around Facebook and so on, I see an awful lot of celebration of Hillary’s uterus. All I ever see in praise of Hillary is that she is Experienced, and she has a Uterus. Those two things seem to be what interests Democrats most.
Oh, and there is a lot of shaming of Sanders supporters going around. People telling them that they “need” to stop whining and unify the party, and that Trump is far worse.
If I could make a meme for Facebook, it would be
“Hillary 2016 – Because the Alternative is Even Worse!”
That seems to be about the state of things in this Great Country.
June 8, 2016 at 1:26 pm #45629bnwBlocked… Romney wasn’t a conservative either. To someone as far away from the center as you Obama and Romney appear conservative but not to a conservative voter.
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Well the leftists here agree — Obama has been a monumental fuck-up.Now think about that. To the LEFTISTS here we agree. Obama has been a total fuck up.
Now, how do you account for that. The Leftists dont like Obama. Or Clinton.
What does that tell you about the difference between a Democrat/liberal
and…a…”huddle-board-Leftist” ?I can see how you would interpret things as Obama not being a “conservative” btw. I can see that. You are more of a Pat Buchanon / Donald Trump person, right? Obama does have plenty of differences from Trump/Buchanon.
w
vI remember it wasn’t that long ago when your lefties here were more self identified as “progressives”. Yes Pat Buchanan whose campaign Trump has borrowed from to a great extent. America First. Finally.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
June 8, 2016 at 1:29 pm #45631bnwBlockedI decided that I’m not only going to vote for Dr Jill Stein, but I’m gonna donate enough to get a t-shirt so I can wear it around town.
Do Greenies make cool Tees? I’ll wear a whack Tee, but it’d obviously be better if it were cooler.
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Yeah, after the Calif result, I guess its time i took down my Bernie sign, and made a big green Jill sign.Maybe I’ll get a Tee shirt too. Or maybe I’ll just get some green textile paint
and a white shirt and make my own. Maybe have a green paint party.bnw has to be loving this — we’re gonna get Trump elected, LoL.
Well, so be it.
w
vSo you guys finally won’t vote for the democrat while I can finally vote for a republican.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
June 8, 2016 at 1:33 pm #45633bnwBlockedThis morning, as I cruise around Facebook and so on, I see an awful lot of celebration of Hillary’s uterus. All I ever see in praise of Hillary is that she is Experienced, and she has a Uterus. Those two things seem to be what interests Democrats most.
You have a way with words. No secret what happened to Bernie in CA. Bernie was fucked and everyone knows it.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
June 8, 2016 at 5:29 pm #45645wvParticipantI remember it wasn’t that long ago when your lefties here were more self identified as “progressives”..
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Well, this small group of leftists has been calling itself ‘leftists’ for about a decade now, but ‘progressives’ is fine with me. Its just a label.
I dont really care what label is used, leftist, progressive, far-left, radical, libertarian-socialist, tree-hugging-green-commie-pinko, Peoples-democratic-Iconoclasts-and-Organic-Gardening-Club…. The ‘name’ doesn’t matter.Some of us had a discussion about it many years ago, and kinda hashed out what name made the most sense. We bandied about some labels. Some folks thot ‘liberal’ made sense, but then we thot liberal made us sound like Democrats, which we definitely are NOT. So, ‘leftist’ seemed a nice semi-vague, label for “way to the left of the Democrats”.
Anyway, back to my point — which was NOT about what ‘label’ we arbitrarily chose — the point is, do you understand that we are NOT Democrats. And do you understand that there are such things as “leftists” (or whatever label u want to use) who cant stand Obama, Clinton, the Republicans and the rest of the “system” politicians. Do you get that? Not lecturing here, just asking if you get that?
w
vJune 8, 2016 at 7:52 pm #45656Billy_TParticipantAnyway, back to my point — which was NOT about what ‘label’ we arbitrarily chose — the point is, do you understand that we are NOT Democrats. And do you understand that there are such things as “leftists” (or whatever label u want to use) who cant stand Obama, Clinton, the Republicans and the rest of the “system” politicians. Do you get that? Not lecturing here, just asking if you get that?
WV, I think you’re asking too much from “conservatives,” who really aren’t conservatives anymore. They’re right-wing radicals. The current American iteration is well to the right of the Reagan conservative, and they keep moving to the right. They pretty much do this each time the Dems stake out more of their old territory — which is constant — and feel the need to always and forever be to their right. The Dems are now planted firmly on the center-right, own it, after it was vacated by Republicans. The Republicans have in turn purged their ranks of the old guard, the Eisenhower Republicans, etc. . . . even the McCain of 2000 version.
This new breed of faux-conservative has been brainwashed to unprecedented degrees for forty years, and pretty much everything is the End of the World!!! for them. The slightest move from the Federal government means the Apocalypse is nigh. Reagan played into this with his talk about Medicare meaning the total end of all freedom for Americans. And with Obama? A year before he took office, you had large numbers of Republicans thinking he was the anti-christ. That number is roughly 25% now. Majorities believed he was foreign-born, a Muslim, a secret agent sent to destroy America, a Marxist, socialist, bogeyman, etc. etc.
They were fed this nonsense 24/7 by hate radio, their churches, and their reps, and it’s never stopped. This is why they can never see Obama for what he is — a true conservative, an pre-Reagan Republican. They’ve been told for years and years that he was, quite literally, the devil, that he “palled around with terrorists,” that he’s a Muslim secret agent, blah blah blah.
So they’re just never going to see how lucky they were that he was elected. They got an actual conservative in office, who implemented actual conservative policies, most of them falling waaaaay short, which was to be expected. But who gets the blame? “The left.” Even though Obama implemented center-right government. They couldn’t have written a better script.
And while you’re obviously, self-evidently correct about the massive gulf between leftists and Obama, if you spend any time on “conservative” websites or websites with large participation by “conservatives,” it’s pretty much an article of faith among them that Obama is “far left,” as are the Dems in generally. They simply believe in the myths, legends and propaganda handed down to them from hate radio, the Birchers, the religiously wrong, the Randians and so on. Now, bnw may not be like his peers, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he differs from them on this issue. He thought it was absurd when I said Obama has governed as a conservative — which he has — and I don’t think he’ll ever understand that the Republican party is no longer conservative in the slightest. It’s a radical, far-right party now. The Dems are now the true conservatives in America.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by Billy_T.
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