our reactions to game 16, Arizona

Eternal Ramnation wrote:

Goff loses that game. With the OL sleep walking Wolford saved the day with his wheels. Goff without Kupp behind A slumping OL with a broken thumb when he was already struggling with ball security seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Let the hags game plan for Wolford. Another week with the ones could only help.

Against ARZ, Wolford was able to convert a couple of third downs running. Against ARZ, the Goff-led Rams converted 60% of their third downs, a rate that across 16 games would lead the league by a wide margin. Meanwhile, in his last 4 games, Goff has had 3 INTs. In his only game, Wolford had 1 INT. Against a much tougher defense, Seattle, Rams scored 9 offensive points. Same with Wolford against the comparatively less challenging Arizona defense.

My own feeling is this. If Goff is physically able to play against Seattle, he goes. In which case I root for him. If Goff is not physically able to go against Seattle, Wolford goes. In which case I root for him.

What I hope improves is the goal line offense, which was a problem in both of the last 2 games.

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Eternal Ramnation wrote:

I agree on the goal line offense. Goff in his last 8 games has 9 INTs and lost 4 of his 5 fumbles ran for 59 yds on 27 ATT with Kupp playing
Wolford ran for 57 yards on 6 ATT converted 4 for 1st downs without Kupp game saved. The Goff being able to play is complicated imo Goff will say he’s ready no matter what that’s his mind set and has served him well for the most part but has affected decision making ability. Cold damp Seattle weather isn’t typically a good condition for healing broken bones . Also Breese didn’t play all that great after 5 weeks rehab with the same injury.

I don’t consider the fumbling an issue. That was 2 games. In those 2 games, Goff held the ball to make plays when it was smarter to throw it away or take a sack. (One fumble came from not sliding on a run and trying to be a running back). Since those 2 games Goff throws it away, bails, or takes the sack. His major issues came from pressing when things broke down. Just trying to make plays, often when he shouldn’t.

Here;s the thing about Goff’s bad games. Some people take then as indicative and I don’t see them that way at all–they consist of fixable issues. Which is why, for example, when facing the same problems with a DL attacking the Rams OL, Goff has NOT been fumbling or throwing INTs at a high rate. So against Miami and SF, he was pressing and the issues happened, and against the Jets and Seattle, the same issues did not happen (strip sacks etc) even though in both games their DLs were dominating the Rams OL. I don’t take 4 bad games by Goff as “indicative of who he is,” I just take them as bad games.

Outside those 2 games, Miami and SF, Goff doesn’t fumble and he throws less that an INT a game. Maybe Wolford will equal that, but so far he’s one a game. So far against the same defense, Arizona, Goff shredded them and was converting 3rd downs at a very high rate. Wolford wasn’t as good against ARZ but then that was his first start. Wolford had to convert some 3rd downs by risking the qb’s body in running 😎 … Goff threw for them.

Whether or not Goff can play is not up to him. He gives the Rams the best chance against Seattle of the 2 qbs. I mean if you think that Wolford running the ball will work against Seattle the way it did against Arizona, then look back at whether Murray got any yards running against them the last time they played (it was 15 yards on 5 carries and when it comes to being a running qb, Murray is better than Wolford). BUT if Goff can’t go–and it will not matter what HE says, that’s up to the trainers–Wolford may provide enough to get a tough, defense-heavy victory.

Herzog wrote:

I liked the 2018 version of Goff. This version isn’t even close. I feel like you are in denial about his TURNOVER problem.

This version is in a different situation. They don’t have a healthy Gurley and often don’t have a consistent running game. 2019 the OL was a mess that needed to be fixed; in 2020, the OL holds up for long stretches and then implodes when the right kind of defense attacks it. Goff can’t do anything about that–that has to be McVay’s fix. We can’t keep having games like Chicago in 2018 and the Jets in 2020 where the OL is being dominated yet the response to that is too slow at the play-calling level.

I am not in denial here–I am looking closely at the facts. The facts say that the massive turnovers happened in 2 games. Outside of those two games, there are INTs but no “fumble issues.” That means they confronted the fumble issues and handled them. Warner had more of an INT issue than Goff does. Kurt threw 3 INTs in the 99 championship game and bounced back from it. Exclude Goff’s 2 bad turnover games, which I see as special circumstances, and Goff has 9 INTs in 13 games. Depends on whether you believe the 2 bad turnover games are big reveals and the problem continues, or if they are isolated moments they learned from.

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Yeah 99 was his 2018. Then in 2002 he has 11 INTs and 3 TDs. 2003 through 2006, it was 24 to 19. And he came back from it. Anyone who dismissed Warner because of his bad games (worse than Goffs bad games) was wrong, he came back from it.

IMO the biggest problem Goff has is recency bias among fans. They do things like blame the Seattle game entirely on him, which is strange in itself, and then act like that’s all we get from the guy. That’s one point.

Here’s another point. If the issues on offense don’t reduce to it being Goff–and they don’t–then, no matter who the qb is, it will make no difference. (And I have my doubts Wolford is anything but a #2 caliber qb like Keenum or Jamie Martin who is good for some starts but then can’t hold up. Austin Davis started well too. I don’t think what I see is a Bulger who was really a #1 caliber qb in a backup role. But it’s too soon to say.) Either way, if it’s not all Goff, then, complaining exclusively about Goff just hides the problems.

And a final point. And again it’s recency. The two bad games with multiple turnovers came and went. I think he learned from them–Seattle and the Jets games were exactly the scenarios where that kind of thing happened before, and it didn’t. He started bailing on the pocket or taking sacks or throwing it away rather than stand in and press trying to make plays.

Anyway like I said. The issues against Seattle and the Jets were not all on the qb, far from it, and if those issues continue it won’t matter if Goff rebounds (again, like he has from Cal on) or if Wolford is good enough to be considered a #1 caliber, starting qb.

Fact is, with Wolford the Rams scored 9 points against a defense they scored 38 on 5 weeks earlier. With Goff they scored 9 points on Seattle, though at least Goff could convert 3rd downs passing.

Maybe Whitworth being back makes some difference against Seattle this time. But Goff is absolutely more than good enough to win with. So why can’t McVay win with him.

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