Goff – Matt Ryan comparisons

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December 10, 2016 at 5:59 am #60648

zn
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Does Matt Ryan represent a best-case scenario for Rams QB Jared Goff?

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20161207/does-matt-ryan-represent-a-best-case-scenario-for-rams-qb-jared-goff

For just the second time in five weeks, Rams fans have the chance to take in a game at the Coliseum. The arc of the season, however, might prompt a few to stay home.

If Angelenos need a reason to head to Exposition Park, consider this weekend a potential glimpse into the future. On Sunday, the Rams will try to beat the Falcons (7-5) and quarterback Matt Ryan, the most oft-cited pre-draft comparison for rookie Jared Goff.

Last October, NFL Network analyst Daniel Jeremiah — a former scout — polled five personnel executives around the league about Goff’s pro potential. All five picked Ryan as the most analogous example.

“They’re both very accurate passers with good size,” said one NFL executive.

“Talent-wise, they’re very similar,” said another.

The same man played a role in scouting both. By 2008, when the Falcons took Ryan third overall out of Boston College, current Rams general manager Les Snead had spent over a decade in Atlanta’s personnel department. A year later, the team promoted him to director of player personnel, a job he held for three years before jumping to St. Louis.

After the Rams (4-8) selected Goff first overall in April, Snead pointed out the former Cal star’s “natural instinct to anticipate,” and to make the progression to his second and third reads.

“People who can do it as fast as he can,” Snead said then, “I don’t want to say you are born with it, but mom, dad, God — somehow there is a DNA that comes natural.”

The Rams took their time trying to incubate that natural ability, sitting Goff for the first nine games of the season. He has since started three games, losing all of them by 48 combined points but showing flashes of his promise along the way.

Goff has a career passer rating of 70.0, completing 53.7 percent of his passes for 509 yards, four touchdowns, and three interceptions. These are not impressive numbers, but they hew closely to what Ryan did in his first three career starts: 511 yards, two touchdowns, and two picks on a 53.1 completion rate — good for a passer rating of 77.0. (Unlike Goff, those starts came at the beginning of the season.)

Now in his ninth season, Ryan appears on track to make his fourth Pro Bowl, boasting a 112.3 passer rating that beats his previous career high by 13.2. He leads NFL starting quarterbacks in yards per pass attempt (9.2) and ranks third in touchdown passes (27), all while throwing just seven interceptions.

Dan Quinn, the Falcons’ second-year head coach, didn’t watch Ryan’s early development up close, but noted similarities in his and Goff’s tough, competitive natures.

“I like the athleticism, where he can get outside the pocket to go create,” Quinn also said of Goff. “I saw strength in the arm on some of the deep balls, the touch to go underneath — those are the first things that jumped out to me.”

Fisher mentioned some of those same traits when asked about the Ryan-Goff comparisons.

“But Matt’s played a lot of years,” he added. “Won a lot of games.”

Eighty-two, to be exact. Goff, meanwhile, is still looking for his first.

December 10, 2016 at 6:03 am #60649

zn
Moderator

“They’re both very accurate passers with good size,” one NFL executive said.

“Talent-wise, they’re very similar,” said another.

Here’s how you want to frame this IMO. It’s not physical talent. (Though they ARE very similar in that respect.)

It’s 2 things.

1. When he develops, can Goff be more “clutch” than Ryan has been in big games and the playoffs?

2. That aside, how would Ryan look on a team with a good defense? Put him on last year’s Broncos. Does Denver trip up and fail with Ryan? I doubt it.

So that’s your measure. If Goff develops as expected and is more clutch than Ryan has been, then “looking like” Ryan as a physical talent is only one part of it.

And any comparisons with Ryan have to add in the fact that Ryan (with one exception maybe) has never had a season with a top or even very good defense. The Rams do promise to have that.

.

December 10, 2016 at 11:40 am #60656
InvaderRam
Moderator
i have doubts about the future of this defense. quinn is not who he was. outside of donald, i think there are question marks on this defensive line. except for maybe brockers.

the secondary is also a big question mark. they haven’t been able to replace jj and mcleod adequately. maybe they’re able to develop some younger guys.

and ryan unlike goff has julio jones and an excellent offensive line. in retrospect perhaps the rams should have drafted matthews instead and left grob for the falcons. or maybe boudreau needs to go.

the rams are going to have to revamp that offensive line and get some real targets. or at least one legitimate superstar target for goff. OR. maybe gurley bounces back and becomes the superstar running back we thought he was. i’m hoping this was a sophomore slump, and he refocuses and gets back on track. a matt ryan caliber qb with a superstar running back would be hard to stop. but again you need a top offensive line. which the falcons have but the rams sorely lack.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by InvaderRam.
December 10, 2016 at 11:48 am #60658

zn
Moderator

InvaderRam wrote:

i have doubts about the future of this defense. quinn is not who he was. outside of donald, i think there are question marks on this defensive line. except for maybe brockers.

the secondary is also a big question mark. they haven’t been able to replace jj and mcleod adequately. maybe they’re able to develop some younger guys.

and ryan unlike goff has julio jones and an excellent offensive line. in retrospect perhaps the rams should have drafted matthews instead and left grob for the falcons. or maybe boudreau needs to go.

the rams are going to have to revamp that offensive line and get some real targets. or at least one legitimate superstar target for goff. OR. maybe gurley bounces back and becomes the superstar running back we thought he was. i’m hoping this was a sophomore slump, and he refocuses and gets back on track. a matt ryan caliber qb with a superstar running back would be hard to stop. but again you need a top offensive line. which the falcons have but the rams sorely lack.

Your view of the immediate future is much darker than mine.

I am not worried about Quinn, for example. As I said, this is the deepest DE draft anyone can remember. They will come away with 2, one for each side.

And IMO if Goff develops, they can get away with what they have at receiver.

December 10, 2016 at 12:30 pm #60659

InvaderRam
Moderator

zn wrote:

And IMO if Goff develops, they can get away with what they have at receiver.

if they can build a top offensive line and if gurley can come back.

and if the defense can replace quinn which is much easier said.

actually all of that is easier said.

December 10, 2016 at 12:57 pm #60660

zn
Moderator

InvaderRam wrote:

zn wrote:

And IMO if Goff develops, they can get away with what they have at receiver.

if they can build a top offensive line and if gurley can come back.

and if the defense can replace quinn which is much easier said.

actually all of that is easier said.

See I still don’t agree. (I know, this is just one last slugfest in years of bitter war between we 2). (Kidding.)

IMO –if Goff improves, he improves those other things too…at least to an appreciable extent.

.

December 10, 2016 at 2:06 pm #60661

Zooey
Moderator

I agree that the Rams’ next 2 or 3 seasons are primarily on Goff’s shoulders.

I am also concerned about Quinn. I am delighted that draft is deep there, but not delighted that the Rams don’t have a 1st round pick.

December 10, 2016 at 2:16 pm #60662

InvaderRam
Moderator

zn wrote:

See I still don’t agree. (I know, this is just one last slugfest in years of bitter war between we 2). (Kidding.)

IMO –if Goff improves, he improves those other things too…at least to an appreciable extent.

well then i would argue that the type of qb you’re expecting goff to be is something more than just your run of the mill franchise qb.

even ryan needs supporting pieces around him to function at a high level. almost all qbs do.

you look at all the top qbs in the league they have high caliber olines to go with them. dallas, oakland, atlanta, green bay to name a few.

the two exceptions i can think of are brady and wilson. but those two are the exception. they’ll be considered two of the best ever at their position when they retire. not good comparisons.

or you’re going to need an all time defense to help the offense out. rams d isn’t that.

December 10, 2016 at 2:28 pm #60663
InvaderRam
Moderator
Zooey wrote:

I am also concerned about Quinn. I am delighted that draft is deep there, but not delighted that the Rams don’t have a 1st round pick.

a healthy quinn graded out i think as the best 4-3 de in 2013. if quinn was healthy yeah. i wouldn’t be as worried. not gonna have an elite defense without an elite edge rusher. that’s a huge hit. you don’t just replace him even with a high first rounder. you draft someone and hope like hell you get lucky.

if it really all falls on goff, then you hope he’s that rare qb who can make his supporting cast look better. otherwise, you better hope these young guys figure it out.

at the very least you get a new coordinator. and i would even evaluate whether a new oline coach is needed. it’s important that they get that oline to even above average.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by InvaderRam.
December 10, 2016 at 2:54 pm #60666

zn
Moderator

InvaderRam wrote:

well then i would argue that the type of qb you’re expecting goff to be is something more than just your run of the mill franchise qb.

Actually I am not arguing that.

I am arguing something quite different.

I am arguing that a lot of what makes it SEEM like the Rams are deficient in terms of personnel all through the entire offense is that we have seen this bunch with nothing but a melted down qb, a #2 caliber qb, and a rookie.

When Goff can do more than he currently does then defenses will have to defend more of the field, and things will look more promising.

NOT GSOT…but better.

AND that’s just is if Goff is reasonably good. Not elite. Just reasonably good.

BTW if we disagree, that’s fine.

.

December 10, 2016 at 3:01 pm #60667

Agamemnon
Participant

I think Goff and all our QBs are able to improve on their own. Like Long and Laurenitis, I think they would be fine no matter who coaches them. Except Keenum who only comes up a bit short because of limited physical attributes. imo

Agamemnon

December 10, 2016 at 3:03 pm #60668

zn
Moderator

Zooey wrote:

I am also concerned about Quinn. I am delighted that draft is deep there, but not delighted that the Rams don’t have a 1st round pick.

Well I am saying what I am saying about DE in this draft because this coming draft is THAT deep at DE.

Some are saying it’s the best DE draft they can remember. There will be starters deep after the 1st round.

And that’s reasonable. If you look at the list of top pass-rushing 4-3 DEs, most are NOT from the first round.

My bet is they get 2 starting caliber DEs out of this draft. Whether or not they do is a matter of making an effort…because this draft is just stocked.

December 10, 2016 at 3:11 pm #60669

InvaderRam
Moderator

zn wrote:

InvaderRam wrote:

well then i would argue that the type of qb you’re expecting goff to be is something more than just your run of the mill franchise qb.

Actually I am not arguing that.

I am arguing something quite different.

I am arguing that a lot of what makes it SEEM like the Rams are deficient in terms of personnel all through the entire offense is that we have seen this bunch with nothing but a melted down qb, a #2 caliber qb, and a rookie.

When Goff can do more than he currently does then defenses will have to defend more of the field, and things will look more promising.

NOT GSOT…but better.

AND that’s just is if Goff is reasonably good. Not elite. Just reasonably good.

BTW if we disagree, that’s fine.

.

i don’t agree. we said before the season as long as the defense was sound. as long as the offensive line was good. and the running game was good. the rams could win.

we found out that the running game, the offensive line, and the defense were not good. goff ain’t gonna fix that by himself unless he’s elite.

we’ll just have to disagree.

December 10, 2016 at 5:00 pm #60675

zn
Moderator

InvaderRam wrote:

zn wrote:

InvaderRam wrote:

well then i would argue that the type of qb you’re expecting goff to be is something more than just your run of the mill franchise qb.

Actually I am not arguing that.

I am arguing something quite different.

I am arguing that a lot of what makes it SEEM like the Rams are deficient in terms of personnel all through the entire offense is that we have seen this bunch with nothing but a melted down qb, a #2 caliber qb, and a rookie.

When Goff can do more than he currently does then defenses will have to defend more of the field, and things will look more promising.

NOT GSOT…but better.

AND that’s just is if Goff is reasonably good. Not elite. Just reasonably good.

BTW if we disagree, that’s fine.

.

i don’t agree. we said before the season as long as the defense was sound. as long as the offensive line was good. and the running game was good. the rams could win.

we found out that the running game, the offensive line, and the defense were not good. goff ain’t gonna fix that by himself unless he’s elite.

we’ll just have to disagree.

Yeah I know, we just disagree. See to me the run and the OL would all be a few notches better if they had a starting caliber qb. Now they have a rookie.
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