Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › OL v DB — Biggest Concern?
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Eternal Ramnation.
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July 27, 2014 at 3:59 pm #2661
rflParticipantThe Rams Addiction guys have raised an interesting issue over the last 2 shows. They held a debate–which is a bigger concern, OL or DB? Then they asked fans to vote who got the better of the debate.
The main discussion: link.
Just a brief review of the debate.
Anthony (if I remember the names right) argued that OL was our biggest concern this year. He said that Barksdale was really the only stable starting OLman. He raised questions about everyone else and argued that OL problems are the biggest threats to W/L records. He also argued that the DBs last year really didn’t affect points yielded or wins and losses.
Michael argued that our secondary will be full of unknowns including green rookies and 2nd or 3rd year guys who have not stood out much. He argued that, by contrast, the OL is “experienced but not old.” He also made ZN’s point about trusting Boudreaux. (sp?)
It’s a good discussion, though I think Michael conceded more than he needed to.
I thought that Anthony made some questionable points. I absolutely do NOT buy the idea that the DBs did not hurt our overall defense last year or affect our W/Ls. The soft, porous play of our DBs undercut the excellence of the DL and led to innumerable concession s on 3rd down, extending opponent drives, yielding points, and increasing the pressure on the offense. I find this argument very strange. In today’s NFL, a leaky 2ndary isn’t a threat to W/Ls?
I also thought he was unfair to a couple of our OL. Davin Joseph provides a highly viable option at RG. Saffold is a damn good OL. He might get hurt again, but I have no doubt he can be at least solid at either OF or OT. That’s 3/5 of the line.
It’s true that Robby is a rookie and thus an unknown, and that he is thought to be raw at pass blocking. But, does anyone really doubt he can play OG this year at least at replacement level?
On the other hand, Anthony made some good points about the OL. Center is a major question mark, given Wells’ injury history, Barnes’ mediocrity, and Jones’ unknown quantities. And then there is Long.
I’ve said before that I don’t buy Long at LOT. I do not trust him to be healthy enough to match his level of play last year. And last year, he struggled at pass blocking.
My read continues to be that Saffold will eventually play LOT for this year with Joseph as an anchor at ROG. The accounts I am reading suggest that, with all the rotating of OL at camp, Barksdale and Joseph are the fixtures. I think that is significant and I continue to suspect that Joseph will remain a fixture at ROG unless and until A) Long makes a dramatic comeback and B) Robby proves decisively that he can thrive at LOG.
Now, perhaps unlike Anthony, I uncomfortable with that scenario. Yet I don’t see a clear answer at OC … yet. Wells is out AGAIN and we don’t know yet about Jones. We really need for Wells to demonstrate health or Jones to show that he can actually play.
So, although I don’t buy all of Anthony’s arguments, he does raise damn good points. We have significant question marks at least at OC and LOT or LOG. (Saffold ought to be able to handle one of those left side positions.)
Michael also makes good points. DB remains a serious challenge. We are very young there and we are relying not only on rookies, but on later round rookies!
OL … DB I don’t know which is the greater threat to our season, but, in terms of player quality in units, these I think are the two potentially great challenges to our season.
By virtue of the absurd ...
July 27, 2014 at 4:08 pm #2663rflParticipantTypo:
Now, perhaps unlike Anthony, I uncomfortable with that scenario.Intended:
Now, perhaps unlike Anthony, I AM NOT uncomfortable with that scenario.By virtue of the absurd ...
July 27, 2014 at 4:19 pm #2664
znModeratorI don’t see a clear answer at OC … yet. Wells is out AGAIN and we don’t know yet about Jones. We really need for Wells to demonstrate health or Jones to show that he can actually play.
Small point before getting into a discussion (which would consist almost entirely of agreeing with you).
This is from CoachO. I;m not sure you saw this…it was in the 2nd follow-up in the camp report thread you responded to:
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/coacho-camp-report-72614/
On Wells: When they do any walk thru stuff, or partake in the basic group drills (no contact) he is right there taking his turn with the 1st unit. As is Long.
There may be something more to it, but something tells me this is just Fisher being overly cautious with his veterans, specially the ones coming back from injury. Whether he was/is 100% percent, Fisher has said all along, they plan to limit BOTH Wells and Long’s reps thru the early part of training camp.
I anticipate the rotation at C to continue on a daily basis between Barnes and Jones. And the more work they can get Joseph at RG the better. At least for the next 2 weeks, I don’t envision this changing. Now, if Long and Wells aren’t more involved by mid August, then something will be amiss.
If that’s right, it means Wells isn’t “out” but he’s being held back.
But to follow-up I am searching to see if he lined up at all during OTAs
July 27, 2014 at 4:24 pm #2665rflParticipantDavin Joseph provides a highly viable option at RG. Saffold is a damn good OL.
I’ve said before that I don’t buy Long at LOT. I do not trust him to be healthy enough to match his level of play last year. And last year, he struggled at pass blocking.
P.S.
I think that the cases of Joseph and Long are worthy of comparison.
By all accounts, Joseph got hurt, healed up, came back last year, and played poorly for the early part of the season. Then, as he recovered more completely, he played better down the stretch. This early pre-season, Joseph looks as if he is all the way back and ready to play good football.
OK. I dunno how his injury differs from Long’s. I think they were both knees.
But it seems to me that we should expect Long to struggle at least for a while recovering. A good deal of it is psychological, a matter of confidence. Here is Long just barely getting the physio OK to play as the season starts. How can he be EXPECTED to not only be able to play, but to play WELL right away?
And of course as I’ve said before I don’t like Long anyway as a pass blocker. He can run block, but last year, playing “healthy,” he seemed a weak link when we had to throw.
By virtue of the absurd ...
July 27, 2014 at 4:25 pm #2666znModeratorFinal Rams OTA Recap
Jonathan Webb
-Among those not participating during Thursday’s workout were safeties Christian Bryant and Maurice Alexander, DT Michael Brockers, DE William Hayes, RB Chase Reynolds, LB Ray-Ray Armstrong, WR Jamaine Sherman, C Scott Wells and T Jake Long.
July 27, 2014 at 4:29 pm #2667znModeratorDavin Joseph provides a highly viable option at RG. Saffold is a damn good OL.
I’ve said before that I don’t buy Long at LOT. I do not trust him to be healthy enough to match his level of play last year. And last year, he struggled at pass blocking.
P.S.
I think that the cases of Joseph and Long are worthy of comparison.
By all accounts, Joseph got hurt, healed up, came back last year, and played poorly for the early part of the season. Then, as he recovered more completely, he played better down the stretch. This early pre-season, Joseph looks as if he is all the way back and ready to play good football.
OK. I dunno how his injury differs from Long’s. I think they were both knees.
But it seems to me that we should expect Long to struggle at least for a while recovering. A good deal of it is psychological, a matter of confidence. Here is Long just barely getting the physio OK to play as the season starts. How can he be EXPECTED to not only be able to play, but to play WELL right away?
And of course as I’ve said before I don’t like Long anyway as a pass blocker. He can run block, but last year, playing “healthy,” he seemed a weak link when we had to throw.
Joseph;s knee, though, was a patellor tendon, and those are harder to come back from. ACLs in contrast are easier to come back from because, from what I read, they improved both the surgical technique and the rehab process.
That’s just a minor point in passing though…I share a general view that we won’t know if Long is back until he IS, ie. we can’t just assume.
But given that, Joseph might not be any indication either way, because based I what I found from reading around, the patellor tendon is just harder to come back from.
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July 27, 2014 at 4:36 pm #2668rflParticipantWells is a real worry.
If he is simply being held back as a precaution, OK. He’s an experienced guy and, between two powerful OGs (we have 3 to choose from) I think he’ll be more than fine, calling the rotations.
If he is really not healthy, then we really only have Jones as a possible plus option. They say he has pumped up, and he certainly smart enough. But there is no earthly way to assess whether he has improved enough to overcome his low level of performance last year.
Like some other young guys, Jones is a key to our taking the next step. IF he stepped up to match the hopes we had in him, we have a building block for years to come. If not … then we have a big hole we are struggling to fill.
By virtue of the absurd ...
July 27, 2014 at 4:49 pm #2669znModeratorWells is a real worry.
If he is simply being held back as a precaution, OK. He’s an experienced guy and, between two powerful OGs (we have 3 to choose from) I think he’ll be more than fine, calling the rotations.
If he is really not healthy, then we really only have Jones as a possible plus option. They say he has pumped up, and he certainly smart enough. But there is no earthly way to assess whether he has improved enough to overcome his low level of performance last year.
Like some other young guys, Jones is a key to our taking the next step. IF he stepped up to match the hopes we had in him, we have a building block for years to come. If not … then we have a big hole we are struggling to fill.
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This is sketchy. I didn’t research it enough. But, Wells missed the end of the season, and then either did not participate in OTAs or was a light participant in OTAs. Then he begins camp participating in walk throughs and group drills as the starter but is not not lining up when there;s contact.
The best case scenario is that, as CoachO says, he is just being held back cause he’s an old guy coming off an end of the season injurye. Precaution.
The worst case scenario is that he’s hurt and can’t be counted on anyway, and that means Barnes or Jones have to step up. Which ALSO could mean starting two youngsters–Jones/Barnes and Robinson–next to Long.
July 27, 2014 at 5:37 pm #2672znModeratorOL … DB I don’t know which is the greater threat to our season, but, in terms of player quality in units, these I think are the two potentially great challenges to our season
Anyway back from wandering in the patellar tendon minutia and Wells injury status minutia, and to address your general point:
Yes. Agreed.
And I think you make a good case for the details.
…
July 27, 2014 at 9:13 pm #2685
PA RamParticipantWells has not played a full season the past two years. Long has not played a full season the last three years. Saffold has not played a full season the last three years.
That is a concern.
What is the depth of the o-line? For them to be successful they have to hope that those back-ups can step in and get the job done. It’s critical.
It’s not that this can’t be a very strong o-line with the starters healthy but they haven’t been healthy. And another of your main guys is in his rookie season. There will be a learning curve.
Sam just can’t take hits.
So the o-line concerns me.
The front seven is so strong on defense that the secondary will be helped by that.
I’m not saying it isn’t a concern but there is nothing to cover for the o-line if they get hurt.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
July 28, 2014 at 4:12 pm #2739
CalParticipantThe secondary is the bigger concern for me, by far. Once Saffold moved to guard last year the ground game looked great. Saffold, in particular, makes me optimistic about the o-line. I know his injury history is a concern, but I do believe that playing inside will help him be healthier.
Before Saffold’s play last year how long has it been since the Rams have had pro-bowl level play from a guard? Timmerman back with the GSOT? Then, you add a guy like Joseph who sounds like a good pick-up and the potential of Robinson?? That depth and potential has me excited for the year.
The secondary scares me a little. They were dominated at times last year. They looked helpless against Boldin in the 2nd 9er game. I don’t have much confidence that JJ or Tru will ever be good corners.
July 28, 2014 at 6:23 pm #2751
wvParticipantThe secondary is the bigger concern for me, by far. Once Saffold moved to guard last year the ground game looked great. Saffold, in particular, makes me optimistic about the o-line. I know his injury history is a concern, but I do believe that playing inside will help him be healthier.
Before Saffold’s play last year how long has it been since the Rams have had pro-bowl level play from a guard? Timmerman back with the GSOT? Then, you add a guy like Joseph who sounds like a good pick-up and the potential of Robinson?? That depth and potential has me excited for the year.
The secondary scares me a little. They were dominated at times last year. They looked helpless against Boldin in the 2nd 9er game. I don’t have much confidence that JJ or Tru will ever be good corners.
Well, I’m expecting the pass-rush to be so good this year,
that the DB’s and LB’s will be scoring game-breaking TDs
on a regular basis.I think this will be the best Ram Defense we’ve seen
since the 70s.w
vJuly 30, 2014 at 9:14 pm #2890znModeratorI think this will be the best Ram Defense we’ve seen
since the 70s.w
vI expect a lot. I am not sure I’m willing to go that far. But, I also want you to be right, not me.
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July 31, 2014 at 11:27 am #2920
AnonymousInactiveGotra believe the DB’s are group to worry about more, but not worrisome enough due to the fact that the D-Line will help them greatly by allowing them to be tested for a shorter amount of time due to a great push time after time.
July 31, 2014 at 4:35 pm #2950
MackeyserModeratorI have more faith in the OL partly because of Coach Boo and partly because of our depth.
I think the DBs have the chance to be pretty good, but they are much more of an unknown. I’m much more worried about our DB situation than our OL situation.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
August 2, 2014 at 1:55 am #3066
Eternal RamnationParticipantJust listening to JT on 101 (Thanks zn for posting the link). Wells was sick with a virus of some sort and lost a lot of weight was the reason he was held out so not injury related and is now back .
August 3, 2014 at 10:21 pm #3206znModeratorJust listening to JT on 101 (Thanks zn for posting the link). Wells was sick with a virus of some sort and lost a lot of weight was the reason he was held out so not injury related and is now back .
Yeah somehow that didn’t get out there…that Wells was just ill. Only Thomas said anything (that I recall).
It sure would be nice if he could hold up this year. He has some skills beyond just being the smart guy who makes the line calls. Jackson, when he was here, said that Wells was very quick getting to the 2nd level–SJ even said it was something he had to adjust to.
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August 4, 2014 at 2:15 am #3212Eternal RamnationParticipantEternal Ramnation wrote:
Just listening to JT on 101 (Thanks zn for posting the link). Wells was sick with a virus of some sort and lost a lot of weight was the reason he was held out so not injury related and is now back .Yeah somehow that didn’t get out there…that Wells was just ill. Only Thomas said anything (that I recall).
It sure would be nice if he could hold up this year. He has some skills beyond just being the smart guy who makes the line calls. Jackson, when he was here, said that Wells was very quick getting to the 2nd level–SJ even said it was something he had to adjust to.
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I wonder if Richardson’s troubles correlate with Wells absence ? Anyway good news it’s not an injury and if he holds up and Long makes it back Joseph complete again Katie bar the door!
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