the value of hurries

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  • #19633
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Smarter Stats: Sacks don’t tell the whole story of NFL’s best pass rushers

    http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/10/22/nfl-week-8-pass-rushing-stats-jj-watt-von-miller-brian-robison

    Sacks are overrated. There, we said it.

    Last season, Minnesota’s Brian Robison had nine quarterback sacks in 989 total defensive snaps. A decent number, to be sure, but some may have wondered why the Vikings rewarded a player who had never hit double-digit sacks in any of his seven NFL seasons with a five-year, $32.4 million contract extension in 2013. Through seven games of the 2014 campaign, Robison has 0.5 sacks, which would seem to mark a relative failure. But here’s the thing: Robison affects opposing quarterbacks in other ways, and he does so as well as any other defender in the league. In 2013, he led all defensive players in quarterback hurries, according to Pro Football Focus, with 63. And this season, only Cincinnati’s Wallace Gilberry has more hurries (20) than Robison’s 19.

    It makes a difference. Hurries affect the timing of pass plays, even if those plays aren’t shut down as they are with sacks. For example, Drew Brees has seven interceptions in 2014, and five of them have come while under pressure. His completion percentage drops from 67.7 percent to 52.4 when he’s pressured, and he’s tied with Houston’s Ryan Fitzpatrick with six plays in which he’s hit as he’s throwing the ball. If you affect the quarterback’s timing, no matter how good he is, the effectiveness of the offense you’re facing will be altered.

    Everybody knows that J.J. Watt was the NFL’s most dominant defensive player in 2013, and he’s on pace to be even more amazing in 2014. But Watt’s effectiveness is about more than sacks, batted passes, obvious run stops and other splash plays. Last season, Watt led the league with an amazing 36 quarterback hits in 998 snaps. He had 10.5 sacks, which was seen as a downturn in overall pressure from the 20.5 sacks Watt put up in 2012. But when you factor in those 36 hits and his 38 hurries, Watt’s pressure percentage of 8.4 was actually better than the 7.9 he had the year before, when he finished with 20.5 takedowns, 25 hits and 30 hurries. This season, however… well, he’s playing at an entirely different level, with a 9.8 pressure percentage (five sacks, 22 hits and 19 hurries on 470 snaps). Watt’s perceived value is insane because he can get pressure from any gap and in the face of double-teams, but when you add in the fact that he’s providing some sort of pressure on nearly one in 10 offensive plays — well, that’s not really even human. His five sacks tell so little of the story.

    Just because a player doesn’t get all the way to the quarterback doesn’t mean that he isn’t doing his job as a pass-rusher. Conversely, just because he is picking up big sack numbers doesn’t mean that he’s maxing out his defensive efficiency. And things can change from season to season. Consider the case of defensive end Willie Young, who moved from Detroit to Chicago this past offseason when the Bears signed him to a three-year, $9 million contract. It was a major bargain when you consider Young’s numbers in 2013 — yes, he had just three sacks, but he put up eight hits and 48 hurries. This season, only Denver’s Von Miller has more sacks this season than Young’s seven. However, Young’s total pressures are way down — just one hit and six hurries.

    Pressure is relative in the NFL, and sacks don’t even come close to telling the whole story.

    #19640
    bnw
    Blocked

    Weird thing is Russel Wilson probably does better when he is hurried.

    And women don’t buy the value of hurries especially if I’ve showered.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #19654
    — X —
    Participant



    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #19655
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Weird thing is Russel Wilson probably does better when he is hurried.

    Not according to PFF…
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/27/seahawks-russell-under-pressure/

    And women don’t buy the value of hurries especially if I’ve showered.

    I couldn’t find any stats on that.

    #19659
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Welcome aboard amigo.

    #19661
    — X —
    Participant

    – X – wrote:

    Welcome aboard amigo.

    Spanglish, eh? Now THAT’S a colloquialism.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #19662
    bnw
    Blocked

    bnw wrote:
    Weird thing is Russel Wilson probably does better when he is hurried.

    Not according to PFF…

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/27/seahawks-russell-under-pressure/

    I disagree with PFF. They are looking at numbers not outcome. I agree with the comments of this poster,

    SeattleGuy • 2 months ago
    When the pocket disappears and RW starts to improvise, he is much more dangerous than your simple analysis would indicate. First, let’s be honest. He often gets flushed out of the pocket and simply throws the ball away. Other times he gets sacked as when the Cards sacked him 7 times at the Clink and pressured him often in the desert. But when they missed, he threw long passes against them or ran for big yardage.

    In fact if you combine your numbers with Brian Billick’s Toxic Differential, another “relationship” emerges. When you pressure Russell Wilson, you’d better damn well get to him or he’s going to kill you with big plays. Seattle leads the NFL in big play differential by a wide margin. Anyone paying attention can see that RW more than makes up for this fall off in QBR when he scrambles. He often breaks off big runs or throws long passes to wide open receivers or Marshawn Lynch. These are the plays that break a defense down and determine the outcome of a game. I can attest to that firsthand as a former Ram’s fan when Dryer and Youngblood would end up exhausted and totally frustrated chasing Fran Tarkenton for what seemed like a minute at a time.

    So, don’t make the mistake of thinking Seattle is better off with quick passes. That a red herring as the team’s Toxic Differential proves. As one fan posted a few weeks ago, sure the Hawks O-line is crap and yes the receivers are garbage but Seattle leads the league in big plays? His recommendation? Throw away the play book. Who cares if your opponent sacks you for a 10 yard loss 5 times a game, if you offset that with a few 50-yard throws and runs? No DB can cover a pro receiver no matter how bad they are for 5 to10 seconds.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #19668
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    I disagree with PFF. They are looking at numbers not outcome. I agree with the comments of this poster,

    SeattleGuy • 2 months ago
    When the pocket disappears and RW starts to improvise, he is much more dangerous than your simple analysis would indicate. First, let’s be honest. He often gets flushed out of the pocket and simply throws the ball away. Other times he gets sacked as when the Cards sacked him 7 times at the Clink and pressured him often in the desert. But when they missed, he threw long passes against them or ran for big yardage.

    In fact if you combine your numbers with Brian Billick’s Toxic Differential, another “relationship” emerges. When you pressure Russell Wilson, you’d better damn well get to him or he’s going to kill you with big plays. Seattle leads the NFL in big play differential by a wide margin. Anyone paying attention can see that RW more than makes up for this fall off in QBR when he scrambles. He often breaks off big runs or throws long passes to wide open receivers or Marshawn Lynch. These are the plays that break a defense down and determine the outcome of a game. I can attest to that firsthand as a former Ram’s fan when Dryer and Youngblood would end up exhausted and totally frustrated chasing Fran Tarkenton for what seemed like a minute at a time.

    So, don’t make the mistake of thinking Seattle is better off with quick passes. That a red herring as the team’s Toxic Differential proves. As one fan posted a few weeks ago, sure the Hawks O-line is crap and yes the receivers are garbage but Seattle leads the league in big plays? His recommendation? Throw away the play book. Who cares if your opponent sacks you for a 10 yard loss 5 times a game, if you offset that with a few 50-yard throws and runs? No DB can cover a pro receiver no matter how bad they are for 5 to10 seconds.

    When a team like the Rams contain him, though, they can make it a long and miserable game for him.

    I think the Rams match up well with them…it’s just that the last 4 times they played, the Rams had 3 different qbs.

    .

    #19671
    bnw
    Blocked

    When a team like the Rams contain him, though, they can make it a long and miserable game for him.

    I think the Rams match up well with them…it’s just that the last 4 times they played, the Rams had 3 different qbs.

    .

    Oh I agree! I think the lack of a QB is all that stands between the Rams and the playoffs if not winning the division.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

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