Mackeyser wrote:

Actually, no. If a player is claimed from waivers, unless I’m misremembering, he must be put on the active roster. That’s to prevent teams from simply tampering with another team’s ability to stock their practice squad.

I think you;re right. You have to waive a guy to get him on your practice squad (if he clears) but if you pick up a guy on waivers, he goes to your roster.

I will ask. It’ll take a day, but I’ll make sure.

wv wrote:

Didn’t Kurt get some criticism after it happened with Bulger?
Wasn’t there some people who thought it showed
Kurt didnt really wanna play for the Rams anymore,
or lacked fire, or somethin. ?

Heck maybe i was one of the critics. I forget.

w
v

My memories of this are vague. But in the back of my mind, yes, some criticized him for doing that with Bulger. In fact if I recall (and I am hoping someone with a clearer memory jumps in) bringing up the Eli thing was one way of defending him. It’s like, see that’s just Kurt.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/supreme-court-case-shape-ferguson-investigation-25074002

Supreme Court Case to Shape Ferguson Investigation

WASHINGTON — Aug 22, 2014, 4:26 AM ET

By EILEEN SULLIVAN
Associated Press

The moment Ferguson, Missouri, police officer Darren Wilson shot an unarmed teenager, a 25-year-old Supreme Court case became the prism through which his actions will be legally judged.

To most people, an 18-year-old unarmed man may not appear to pose a deadly threat. But a police officer’s perspective is different. And that is how an officer should be judged after the fact, Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote in the 1989 opinion.

The Supreme Court case, decided at a time when violence against police was on the rise, has shaped the national legal standards that govern when police officers are justified in using force. The key question about Wilson’s killing on Aug. 9 is whether a reasonable officer with a similar background would have responded the same way.

The sequence of events that led to the death of Michael Brown, a black man shot by a white officer, remains unclear. An autopsy paid for by Brown’s family concluded that he was shot six times, twice in the head. The shooting has prompted multiple investigations and touched off days of rioting reflecting long-simmering racial tensions in a town of mostly black residents and a majority white police force.

Attorney General Eric Holder said Thursday the episode had opened a national conversation about “the appropriate use of force and the need to ensure fair and equal treatment for everyone who comes into contact with the police.”

A grand jury is hearing evidence to determine whether Wilson, 28, who has policed the St. Louis suburbs for six years, should be charged in Brown’s death.

Since the 1989 Graham v. Connor decision, the courts in most instances have sided with the police.

“Except in the most outrageous cases of police misconduct, juries tend to side with police officers and give them a lot of leeway,” said Woody Connette, the attorney who represented the Charlotte, North Carolina, man behind the case, Dethorne Graham.

On Nov. 12, 1984, Graham, 39, felt the onset of an insulin reaction, and asked a friend to drive him to buy orange juice that would increase his blood sugar, Connette said.

According to the Supreme Court, Graham rushed into the store and grabbed the orange juice but saw the checkout line was too long, so he put the juice down and ran back to the car.

Charlotte police officer M.S. Connor thought this was suspicious and followed him. When Connor stopped Graham’s friend’s car, Graham explained he was having a sugar reaction. But Connor didn’t believe him.

As Connor was following up with the store to see whether anything had happened, Graham left the car, ran around it twice, then sat down and passed out for a short time. Other police officers arrived, and Graham was rolled over and handcuffed. The officers lifted Graham from behind and placed him face down on the car.

When Graham asked the officers to check his pocket for something he carried that identified him as a diabetic, one of the officers told him to “shut up” and shoved his face against the hood of the car. Then four officers grabbed Graham and threw him head-first into the police car. Once police confirmed no crime had been committed inside the convenience store, they dropped Graham off at his home and left him lying in the yard, Connette said.

Graham ended up with a broken foot, cuts on his wrists, a bruised forehead and an injured shoulder.

Graham, who died in 2000, lost his lawsuit against the city of Charlotte and five police officers in a jury trial and appealed all the way to the Supreme Court, which set out the standards still used today. After the Supreme Court decision vacating an appeals court ruling against Graham, he had a new trial, in which the police actions were judged on new standards. Graham lost again.

The Graham decision found that an officer’s use of force should be considered on the facts of each case. Officers are to weigh the seriousness of the crime, whether the suspect poses a threat to the safety of police or others and whether the suspect is trying to resist arrest.

“The ‘reasonableness’ of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight,” Rehnquist wrote.

In Graham’s case, his behavior as he was experiencing low blood sugar looked similar to that of a belligerent drunk.

Since then, police officers across the U.S. have been trained to use force in that context. States and police departments have their own policies, but the standards set in the Graham case are always the minimum. Some law enforcement agencies, like the Los Angeles Police Department, even reference Graham v. Connor in their manuals.

The jury that acquitted four Los Angeles police officers in the beating of Rodney King in 1991 was instructed to consider the Graham standards — the officers’ “reasonable perceptions” — as they deliberated.

Officers are to be judged by those standards even if things look different to people who weren’t involved.

“What a police officer, what she perceives at the moment of application of force, may seem very different in the hard light of the following Monday morning,” said Ken Wallentine, a recently retired police chief and former law professor in Utah. “And there’s the rub.”

———

Associated Press writers Alan Scher Zagier in St. Louis and Nancy Benac and researcher Monika Mathur in Washington contributed to this report.

Mackeyser wrote:

Didn’t I say the same thing?

I could swear I said the same thing….

See, I couldn’t re-post yours though, and present it all nice with a nice red poster-handle.

It was already HERE.

So…how could I repost it here?

“The roster may look a little bit different than years past because we may have more depth at one position. We may go a little heavier at one position versus another position.”

–

It will be interesting to see what that means.

Join us in the chat this Saturday if you’re free during the game, or drop in. We have a good chat community.

some more follow-up (ongoing)

===============

CoachO

…with the Bailey suspension, I doubt they are going to part ways with Givens. With Pead’s injury, I think he is the default KR. But there is no mistaking his role has changed dramatically in the WR rotation.

*

[M.Sam]…Iwould put it at 60/40 I do know they want to keep him on the roster. It just a matter of him giving them a reason. He has leveled off some in the past 10 days, but he still is showing up, and taking advantage of his pass rush opportunities. Like many other players at this point, he has two weeks to show he deserves a spot.

*

[Mason’s pass blocking]…I think at this point, its more about his lack of understanding his assignment, and a whole lot of technique issues.

[Why they picked Mason]…The thing about the Mason selection for me, and the reason so many seem to question it, is they are finally at a place where they can truly take the “best player available”, and not focus on need as they have been forced to do so much in the past. This kid is a dynamic RB, and as it turns out, will contribute THIS YEAR. With the Pead injury only solidifying his role, having Mason on this team now looks to be a very good thing.

*

{WRs]…it’s a win win scenario for me, if guys like Quick, Britt, Cook, Bailey are all becoming big enough threats to dictate serious attention from opposing defenses. All that can do is make Austin more dangerous, even if it is with these same crossing routes.

*

[Robinson]…I absolutely see this guy being the player/athlete he was said to be. …not gonna make any “ProBowl” projections, as I think that judging a player based on who “wins” a trip to Hawaii is more akin to a popularity contest than any real indicator of how they perform. That being said, he has all the physical tools to be a dominant Guard THIS YEAR, and should translate into a top flight Tackle in the future. So yes, IMO, the draft pick was well worth it.

*
At this point, while I stop just short of calling Person a lock to make the roster, with the situation at Center, and him showing to have some added value as a 3rd option there, I would be shocked if he is cut.

wv wrote:

Well, Fisher has an owner that has given him everything he wants;
he has a bunch of handpicked allstar coaches; he’s had the benefit of RG3 trade; he’s built this team with his players – so wv-ram does not wanna see anymore .500-ish seasons.

And I wanna see a Lombardi Trophy in year 3, 4, or 5.

And i want Cake for everyone on the internet.

w
v

Well, to me, perhaps more importantly, he has an organization that will hopefully avoid the situation he got in 2004/5 where he not only lost players because of injury, but had to face a dire cap and let key players go.

More planning and continuity.

Injuries happen, especially to Rams offensive linemen (that is actually a fully substantiated law of physics), BUT, you don’t have to combine that with cap-driven massacres.

Cake? We can’t let them eat cake. As history shows us, letting them eat cake leads to social collapse and reigns of terror.

.

some follow-up

===============
CoachO

I plan on working on a final report, giving my general thoughts on where they are, and evaluate the roster kinda like I did at the midway point of camp. There have been a few players who really helped themselves over the final 2 weeks, and some who have slipped. It should be an interesting final two weeks of the Preseason.

I would say there are a couple of surprises. On both ends of the spectrum.

On the positive side, one of my biggest surprises is just how good Bradford has looked. The velocity on some of the throws is noticeably better. He is fitting throws into tight windows consistently. Obviously, the combination of Quick and Britt, and how well they have looked has been a big surprise.

On the other end, Givens has been a huge disappointment. I have never been a big fan, but he just looks disinterested, and almost defeated. He contributes next to nothing in practice, and other than a few days two weeks ago, he looks no where near the guy they drafted. The other, again, not a huge fan (obvious to anyone who has read anything I have posted before) but with all the hype and chatter about how Armstrong was poised to step in and “take reps from Dunbar”, he has been given every opportunity, and has not shown much at all. In fact, I now hear how “we need to be patient” “he is still earning a new position”, “he missed the last year of school” and “at least he still is a value because of his Special Teams play.”

*

Austin looks like the 3rd or 4th option on many of the routes he runs. Most are crossing routes, or an occasional wheel route up the sideline. They tried to run the toss/reverse they ran vs. Chicago, and it was sniffed out by Westbrooks who stayed at home, and was waiting for him when he reversed fields.

*

I have always paid close attention to the Special Teams, especially the 2nd units. They tend to be very fluid, based on who is not practicing, and who the coaches feel deserve an extra look. Fisher commented last week, that every position coach, breaks down the Special Team tapes, so they can see their position players and how they perform. So it’s not just Coach Fassel when it comes to input on these teams. They can be very telling as to the back end of the roster, and who is garnering a second look.

*

[Jake]…Long looks fine. He always looks like he just understands how to play the position. No worries about him being ready.

*

Quick didn’t look to be serious. He just got caught in an awkward position, extended and reaching for a high throw. Davis didnt hit him hard, just ill timed and caught him just right. For what’s worth, Quick did not look happy about it as practice wore on.

*

Hayes was limited, and I had a conversation wiht someone who said they are just being very cautious with him. His hip is the biggest issue from the off season, and they want to ease him back.

*

Robinson in one on one stuff dominates more than not. It’s still not as consistent as he needs to be in terms of assigments, and playing “fast”. I was somewhat surprised, that Saffold worked as much as he did at LG today, and that Robinson took most of his reps with the “2’s”.

What’s with Joseph getting 1st team reps over Robinson and GRob with the second unit? Joseph has been the one constant this entire training camp. He and Barksdale have been out there virtually every day since the begining of camp.

What direction they go in, is purely speculation, even on my part, and wont’ do us any good. There are a 100 different possible scenarios as to why they are doing what they are doing [playing GRob with the 2s in one practice]…. It’s one day, so I am not reading anything into it. But I did think it was something that needed to be mentioned in my camp report.What they do in the next 2 preseason game will give us a much better picture of their plans heading into Sept 7th.

*

[LBs]…Phillip Steward has been a constant in getting 2nd unit reps from the outset of training camp. At this point, I would say he is definitely in their plans. He is showing up on Special Teams as well.

*

I would be shocked if Washington makes this roster. He has missed a ton of training camp, and honestly, I didn’t like his chances before camp. I think they have added too much talent, who have made him vunerable. He stuck around last year because he was the “best” of an otherwise very weak group of depth guys. By adding the likes of Joseph, and even Bond to some extent, Brandon Washington’s day could be numbered.

*

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us/shooting-accounts-differ-as-holder-schedules-visit.html?_r=1

Shooting Accounts Differ as Holder Schedules Visit to Ferguson

By FRANCES ROBLES and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDTAUG. 19, 2014

ERGUSON, Mo. — As a county grand jury prepared to hear evidence on Wednesday in the shooting death of a black teenager by a white police officer that touched off 10 days of unrest here, witnesses have given investigators sharply conflicting accounts of the killing.

Some of the accounts seem to agree on how the fatal altercation initially unfolded: with a struggle between the officer, Darren Wilson, and the teenager, Michael Brown. Officer Wilson was inside his patrol car at the time, while Mr. Brown, who was unarmed, was leaning in through an open window.

Many witnesses also agreed on what happened next: Officer Wilson’s firearm went off inside the car, Mr. Brown ran away, the officer got out of his car and began firing toward Mr. Brown, and then Mr. Brown stopped, turned around and faced the officer.

But on the crucial moments that followed, the accounts differ sharply, officials say. Some witnesses say that Mr. Brown, 18, moved toward Officer Wilson, possibly in a threatening manner, when the officer shot him dead. But others say that Mr. Brown was not moving and may even have had his hands up when he was killed.

The accounts of what witnesses have told local and federal law enforcement authorities come from some of those witnesses themselves, law enforcement authorities and others in Ferguson. Many spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified discussing a continuing investigation.

The new details on the witness accounts emerged as Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. was scheduled to visit Ferguson on Wednesday to meet with F.B.I. agents who have been conducting a civil rights investigation into the shooting.

Mr. Holder and top Justice Department officials were weighing whether to open a broader civil rights investigation to look at Ferguson’s police practices at large, according to law enforcement officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal talks. The issue came up after news reports revealed a 2009 case in which a man said that four police officers beat him, then charged him with damaging government property — by getting blood on their uniforms.

Under Mr. Holder, the Justice Department has opened nearly two dozen such investigations into police departments, more than twice as many as were opened in the previous five years, according to department data.

Also on Tuesday, federal authorities learned the results of an autopsy performed on Mr. Brown by military coroners that showed that he had been shot six times, though they declined to release further details until their investigation was finished. An autopsy conducted on behalf of Mr. Brown’s family also found that he had been shot at least six times — including once in the face and once in the top of his head — with all bullets striking him in the front. The county has also done its own autopsy, which found evidence of marijuana in Mr. Brown’s system.

Clashes between the police and protesters have become a nightly ritual, although the scene on Tuesday was initially calm. The authorities took their positions before sunset, and Missouri National Guard soldiers staffed checkpoints at the shopping center that is now a police command post. Demonstrators marched without incident while officers watched. The quiet nature of the protests raised hopes that they had entered a calmer phase, but more confrontations were reported overnight, with 47 people arrested.

In a statement on Tuesday night, Gov. Jay Nixon expressed sympathy for the Brown family and praised residents for “standing against armed and violent instigators.” But he also said that “a vigorous prosecution must now be pursued.”

“The democratically elected St. Louis County prosecutor and the attorney general of the United States each have a job to do,” Mr. Nixon said. “Their obligation to achieve justice in the shooting death of Michael Brown must be carried out thoroughly, promptly and correctly, and I call upon them to meet those expectations.”

The fatal confrontation began on Aug. 9 shortly after the police received reports that two men had robbed a convenience store in Ferguson. Officer Wilson, who was not responding to the robbery, had stopped to speak with Mr. Brown and a friend, Dorian Johnson. The Ferguson police chief, Thomas Jackson, said that it was around the time that Officer Wilson started talking to the two that he realized they fit the description of the suspects in the convenience store robbery.

A lawyer for Mr. Johnson said that his client was interviewed by the F.B.I. and the St. Louis County police last week for nearly four hours. In that interview, Mr. Johnson admitted that he and Mr. Brown had stolen cigarillos from the store, said the lawyer, Freeman R. Bosley Jr.

Mr. Bosley said that the officer told the two to get off the street, adding that Mr. Johnson told the officer that he lived nearby. They got into a bit of a verbal dispute with the officer about whether walking in the street constituted a crime, Mr. Bosley said.

Contrary to what several witnesses have told law enforcement officials, Mr. Bosley said that the officer then reached out of the window with his left hand and grabbed Mr. Brown by the throat.

He said Mr. Brown pushed him off, and the officer then grabbed Mr. Brown’s shirt.

“My client sees the officer pull a gun and hears him say, ‘I’ll shoot you’ — then ‘pow!’ there was a shot,” Mr. Bosley said, referring to the one that apparently went off in the car. “He did not describe a scuffle. It was more of a scuffle for him to get away.”

Asked if Mr. Brown had punched the officer, Mr. Bosley said that Mr. Johnson “did not observe that.”

However, law enforcement officials say witnesses and forensic analysis have shown that Officer Wilson did sustain an injury during the struggle in the car.

As Officer Wilson got out of his car, the men were running away. The officer fired his weapon but did not hit anyone, according to law enforcement officials.

Mr. Johnson took cover near a parked car as he saw the officer confronting Mr. Brown, Mr. Bosley said.

A man who lives nearby, Michael T. Brady, said in an interview that he saw the initial altercation in the patrol car, although he struggled to see exactly what was happening.

“It was something strange,” said Mr. Brady, 32, a janitor. “Something was not right. It was some kind of altercation. I can’t say whether he was punching the officer or whatever. But something was going on in that window, and it didn’t look right.”

Mr. Brady said he could see Mr. Johnson at the front passenger side of the car when he and Mr. Brown suddenly started running. Mr. Brady did not hear a gunshot or know what caused them to run. But he said he did see a police officer get out of the patrol car and start walking briskly while firing on Mr. Brown as he fled.

What happened next could be what the case turns on. Several witnesses have told investigators that Mr. Brown stopped and turned around with his arms up.

According to his account to the Ferguson police, Officer Wilson said that Mr. Brown had lowered his arms and moved toward him, law enforcement officials said. Fearing that the teenager was going to attack him, the officer decided to use deadly force. Some witnesses have backed up that account. Others, however — including Mr. Johnson — have said that Mr. Brown did not move toward the officer before the final shots were fired.

A lawyer for the police union, Greg Kloeppel, did not return calls for comment.

The F.B.I., Mr. Bosley said, pressed Mr. Johnson to say how high Mr. Brown’s hands were. Mr. Johnson said that his hands were not that high, and that one was lower than the other, because he appeared to be “favoring it,” the lawyer said.

James McKnight, who also said he saw the shooting, said that Mr. Brown’s hands were up right after he turned around to face the officer.

“I saw him stumble toward the officer, but not rush at him,” Mr. McKnight said in a brief interview. “The officer was about six or seven feet away from him.”

Frances Robles reported from Ferguson, and Michael S. Schmidt from Washington. Reporting was contributed by Matt Apuzzo from Washington, Marc Santora from New York, and Alan Blinder and John Eligon from Ferguson.