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znModerator=============
Just think about this, if the Rams don’t blow coverage, the great Peyton Manning and boy Genius Gase are scoreless. Oh look Manning does what he does best, throws a pick=============
LOL, and Fox is clapping. What a tool=============
Manning just got outplayed by Shaun Hill. Hahaha.=============
That’s game fellas.=============
It is so damn hard to play three away games in a row…
This is a tough league, and the Rams are way better than their record, they have a great coaching staff and had a great game plan=============
Rams wanted this more, were better prepared with a coach twice as good as ours.=============
The NFC west is such a tough division, the Rams are better than their recordNovember 16, 2014 at 8:02 pm in reply to: multi-media from the Denver game (highlights, Fisher post-game, etc.) #11996
znModeratorBRITT:
Get Kenny Britt’s postgame reaction to the victory over the Denver Broncos.
November 16, 2014 at 7:22 pm in reply to: Fisher, Hill, Laurinaitis, Mason, Quinn … transcripts #11994
znModeratorLAURINAITIS On how the defense is performing: “The light bulb is kind of switched on”
znModeratorBest Rams win since….. ?
znModeratorNick Wagoner @nwagoner
Despite penalty against McLeod, multiple Rams made mention of how important it was to be physical with Denver receivers. Set a tone.
4:55 PMTwitterNick Wagoner @nwagoner
On coverage mixup that led to lone Broncos touchdown, it was supposed to be Jenkins responsible for staying on top of the coverage.
4:54 PMTwitterNick Wagoner @nwagoner
Fisher didn’t mention any injuries of note. We’ll see where they are in that regard later this week.Nick Wagoner @nwagoner
LB James Laurinaitis said DC Gregg Williams had “perfect” game plan for today. Will expound in my column a bit later.Nick Wagoner (@nwagoner
Rams have allowed a total of 56 rushing yards in the past two weeks. I’m told that’s the best two-week stretch in franchise history.November 16, 2014 at 6:13 pm in reply to: multi-media from the Denver game (highlights, Fisher post-game, etc.) #11986
znModeratorFISHER & HILL:
St. Louis Rams head coach Jeff Fisher and quarterback Shaun Hill shed some light on the teams 22-7 defeat of the Denver Broncos.
znModeratorRams shock Manning, Broncos 22-7
BY JIM THOMAS
The Rams defense has arrived — better late than never. Quarterback Shaun Hill finally got a chance to show what he could do. Again, better late than never.
And with help from linebacker Alex Ogletree, running back Tre Mason, and wide receiver Kenny Britt, the Rams pulled off their second huge upset in the past three games, defeating Denver 22-7 Sunday at the Edward Jones Dome.
Hill completed 20 of 29 passes for 220 yards and a touchdown. Mason gained 113 yards on 29 yards against a Denver defense that entered the game leading the league in rushing defense, allowing only 67 yards a game. Britt had 100 yards receiving before halftime, scoring the Rams’ only TD of the day.
And let’s not forget Greg Zuerlein, who kicked five field goals — including two of 50 yards-plus.
The Broncos, in first place in the AFC West, fell to 7-3. The Rams, last in the NFC West, improved to 4-6.
Things couldn’t have started better for Hill, returning to the starting lineup for the first time since the season opener Sept. 7 against Minnesota.
On the third play from scrimmage, Hill hit Britt deep for a 33-yard gain to the Denver 40. Britt beat Aqib Talib on the play, and had enough separation that it might have been a touchdown had Hill not thrown the ball a little behind Britt. The Rams made it all the way to the Denver 14, when a Von Miller sack on third-and-4 forced a Zuerlein field goal.
The Rams made it 10-0 late in the first quarter when Hill once again connected with Britt on a deep post for a 63-yard touchdown. Britt got behind Bradley Roby on the play for his third TD of the season.
So it was 10-0 Rams with 1:18 to play in the first quarter. The several thousand Broncos fans in attendance, all wearing Denver orange, were in a little bit of a shock. The score grew to 13-0 on another Zuerlein field goal with 4:48 left in the half.
The Rams missed another chance to put seven on the board, advancing as far as the Denver 10-yard line. But on third-and-3, Hill’s pass was deflected . . . back into his arms. But Hill only made it back to the line of scrimmage after his “reception” so out trotted Zeuerlein to make it 13-0 Rams with his 29-yard field goal.
But what would a Rams game be without a busted coverage. With just 2:22 left in the half, Peyton Manning hit a wide-open Emmanuel Sanders for a 42-yard TD. Afterwards, Jenkins and a couple of his teammates in the secondary were gesturing back and forth in the familiar: “I thought you had him. No, I thought you had him” pose.
So it was 13-7 and you had to wonder if settling for field goals instead of scoring TDs would come back to haunt the Rams in the second half.
Save for that busted coverage, the Rams did as well as could be expected trying to defend Manning. They changed fronts, mixed coverages, and pressured him on several occasions. Something not seen that often by the Rams this season, a blitz by James Laurinaitis, forced a few rushed throws by Manning.
Rams linebackers and defensive backs jumped shorter routes quickly, breaking up several throws.
Most of the third quarter was a field position game with the Rams and Broncos exchanging punts. But the Rams got a break on one of those Denver punts when Broncos tackler Lamin Barrow used a horse-collar tackle to bring down Tavon Austin. As a result they took over on their 48.
Mason’s second-longest run of the season — 27 yards — put the Rams in field goal range. Once again, they advanced to the red zone, this time reaching the 4. But once again, St. Louis settled for a Zuerlein field goal. It did, however, make it a two-score game at 16-7 Rams.
On the next series for Manning and Co., Rams linebacker Alex Ogletree undercut a pass intended for tight end Jacob Tamme over the middle for his second interception in as many weeks. The Rams got only one first down out of that possession but it was enough for Zuerlein, who kicked his fourth field goal of the game and his second-longest of the season from 55 yards.
So the Rams were up 19-7, meaning Denver needed two TDs to catch the Rams early in the fourth quarter. Zuerlein wasn’t done kicking. After a leaping interception by Trumaine Johnson after Manning threw into double coverage, the Rams took over at the Denver 41 with just 5:23 left to play.
The Rams gained only six yards on the possession, but again it was enough for Zuerlein, who kicked a 53-yarder for a 22-7 lead with 4:44 to play. Now it would take two TDs and a two-point conversion by Manning just to tie.
But it didn’t happen. Manning’s fourth-and-1 pass with 2:27 to play from the St. Louis 41 was batted down by Ogletree. And the Rams had posted another upset.
znModeratoryeah he did play well, so far so good
znModeratorI think we’re seeing what’s possible from the D. Things look like they’re finally clicking. With some consistent offense, this team could be really fun to watch the rest of the season
Yes, nailed it there Dak IMO
znModeratorI can’t remember when I enjoyed a Rams game so much.
Very solid football.
Rams D was everything I wanted them to be.
Hill was fantastic. Well managed.
Game balls all around.
That was fun!
Pie and cake for everyone.
And that’s official.
znModeratorwell apparently, the new staff has settled him down.
My complaint is his awful behavior…he really hasn’t been a team player…maybe now he’s doing things the right way
znModeratorRams set to combat Manning’s wizardry
By Jim Thomas
New Rams safety Mark Barron has faced Peyton Manning only once, two years ago as a Tampa Bay Buccaneer.
It wasn’t the most monstrous of Manning performances: three touchdown passes, 242 yards in a 31-23 Denver victory. Even so, in the minds of Barron and his teammates, it was as if Manning knew every call by the Tampa defense. It’s like he knew what was coming.
“We came away from the game thinking he had cheated or something, the way he was calling it out,” Barron said. “Seriously. He’s a smart guy, man. He knows the game.”
Prof. Manning brings his act to St. Louis — along with the rest of the Denver Broncos — for a noon kickoff Sunday at the Edward Jones Dome. Of course, the show comes complete with all the gestures, gyrations and verbal signals that have become part and parcel of Manning’s game over these many years.
“Omaha! Omaha!”
“I did hear ‘Omaha,’” Barron said of that 2012 game. “He’s been doing that for years. He has a lot of terminology that he uses. It’s like he really has his own language.”
But is it real? Or fake?
“You don’t really know,” Barron said. “You don’t know if something he’s saying is actually real or if it’s a dummy call.”
Since Manning won’t be supplying decoder rings Sunday, it’s up to the Rams to figure that all out. Or … just ignore it.
“You try not to think about that at all,” linebacker Jo-Lonn Dunbar said. “I think he has way too many code words.”
Nothing personal Peyton, but Dunbar doesn’t plan on listening.
“You don’t want to play that cat-and-mouse game with him,” Dunbar said.
Defensive tackle Kendall Langford agrees.
“It’s crowd noise,” Langford. “You can’t get caught up in listening to that because it’ll slow you down. Just go out there and play your game. Do your job. Do your 1/11th, and hopefully we can get it done.”
Teams have tried just about everything in an effort to slow Manning down over the years. Blitzing like crazy. Dropping eight men in coverage. Distracting him with circus clowns. Not much seems to work, unless you have Seattle’s defensive personnel or Bill Belichick’s brain.
Make no mistake, the Rams have studied those tapes, looking to beg, borrow or steal anything they can to slow Manning.
But even for a defensive coordinator as creative as Gregg Williams, you don’t reinvent the wheel 10 games into the season. Especially when you’re facing Manning.
“Really, you don’t change a lot of things you’re doing,” Williams said. “When people start doing that type of stuff is when big accidents happen. We’ve just got to be who we are. We’ve got to be a lot more focused in a couple of situations, in a couple of formations, that they’ll present.”
So at its most basic level, the Rams will try to change looks as much as possible in an effort to keep Manning from zeroing in on what they’re doing — or decipher any pattern to what they’re doing.
Hard as it may seem, if they can take away Manning’s first read, that might give the Rams’ pass-rush — which has been coming on lately — an extra split-second to get in Manning’s face.
Manning doesn’t like getting hit. He has been known to get angry at his blockers when that happens. But he doesn’t get hit much, in large part because he almost always knows where he’s going with the ball and gets the ball out so quickly.
And of course, give the Broncos’ offensive line, re-shuffled as it has been lately, a healthy share of the credit. Manning has been sacked only nine times, a league low, and has been hit only 24 times this season, again a league low.
It’s that way almost every year, which has allowed him to keep upright and keep firing over his 17 NFL seasons in an amazingly consistent and productive fashion.
He enters the Dome on Sunday having thrown at least two touchdown passes in an NFL record 15 consecutive games.
He has thrown at least one TD pass in 48 straight contests, the third-longest such streak in league history.
The only player in NFL history to win five MVP awards, Manning set the NFL all-time record for career TD passes earlier this season. That mark is at 520 TD passes and counting. Should the game somehow be close in the fourth quarter, well, the 13-time Pro Bowler has led a game-winning drive in the fourth quarter or overtime 50 times.
(Yes, that’s also a league record.)
There are few head coaches this side of Belichick who know Manning as well as Rams coach Jeff Fisher. Since Manning entered the league as the No. 1 overall draft pick in 1998, Fisher faced him 19 times as head coach of the Tennessee Titans.
Fisher went 6-13 in those games, with one of those victories coming in a 1999 divisional playoff game the season the Titans advanced to the Super Bowl against Dick Vermeil’s Rams. That’s a winning percentage of just .316, but it’s slightly above the career winning percentage of all opponents against Manning in the regular season: .301, on 75 wins and 174 losses.
“I’ve said this before, it’s like playing a computer,” Fisher said. “That’s what he is. He runs that offense. He’s going to put them in the best possible position. He’s nearly impossible to fool and is hard to get down.”
There were years when Fisher had his entire defense wear wristbands with numbers on them signifying various defensive calls. Not only that, Fisher had the Titans’ defense switch to different wristbands every quarter.
“We couldn’t talk (on the field) because he recognizes your terminology and your calls and things like that,” Fisher said.
So they’d play defense by numbers. Numbers that changed every quarter. If the call was ”Three!” in the second quarter, it would signal something entirely different than what ”Three!” meant in the first quarter.
Did that work?
“No,” Fisher said, laughing. “It may have for a quarter. I don’t know.”
Over the years, Fisher has tried just about every way imaginable to defend Manning.
“Yeah, and we’ve had some success,” Fisher said. “And we’re expecting to again. That’s the way you go into it.”[/quote]
znModeratorWe don’t know if his age will be an issue. We don’t know if he will be rusty. We don’t know whether we can win even if he plays better than Davis has. Hill could have a great day and not be within 15 points of Manning.
We don’t have to win the game to prove the logic of the switch to be correct. Hell, even if Hill tanks, it would still have been worth it to take the chance. Davis will NOT get it done. Hill might. I’ll take Hill.
I think that sums it up nicely.
znModeratori see them going at least 3-4 the rest of the way.
shoot. maybe even hill is named the starter again, and the rams go 4-3.
Yeah I think they have 3 or 4 wins in them. Depends on Hill.
znModeratorSo maybe, keep Bradford, keep Davis, and draft a quarterback high. And see what happens. That puts the Rams quarterback eggs in three baskets.
I am pretty sure that’s what they will do.
.
znModeratorNo one will confuse the Rams offensive live with the Hogs or anything, but I think some of that poor pass blocking efficiency can be laid at Davis’ feet. Defensive coordinators know Davis struggles against the blitz so they blitz him a lot. That leads to a lot of QB pressures. If Davis could recognize a blitz was coming and check out of the play called and/or find his hot receiver, then DC’s would be forced to dial back the blitzing a little bit. Then you would have fewer QB pressures and an o-line that’s ranked better than 30th in this regard.
Well I think all that too.
Couple of games from now…we’ll see if it’s right.
znModerator7 things to watch: Rams vs. Broncos
By Jim Thomas
HILL RETURNS
After eight games and more than two months on the bench, Shaun Hill resurfaces as the Rams’ starting QB. His timing could’ve been better considering he’ll be trying to match throws with the great Peyton Manning. Not to mention, he’ll be facing the NFL’s fifth-ranked defense. But when it comes down to it, his timing with Rams receivers will be what matters most. There will be an adjustment process, be it the way the ball comes out of Hill’s hand — as a opposed to Austin Davis — or even his cadence at the line of scrimmage. “Shaun has a different touch on the ball,” TE Lance Kendricks said. “But it still gets there the same. He’s a vet quarterback, so he’s been there before. There’s nothing wrong with having that veteran leadership in the huddle. The plays are still the same. We like Shaun. Everyone loves him here. No issues there.”
LAST DANCE IN ST. LOUIS?
Even if the Rams don’t relocate to Los Angeles, this likely will be Manning’s last appearance in the Gateway City. Under the NFL scheduling formula, the Broncos won’t play here again until 2022. He would be 46 by then. So unless he changes clubs, say farewell Sunday to one of the all-time greats. Manning has played here only twice before — both times with Indianapolis. In 2001, the Colts lost 42-17; in 2009, the Colts turned the tables with a 42-6 win.
MILLER & WARE
The Rams faced an elite pass-rushing tandem three weeks ago in KC’s Tamba Hali and Justin Houston. No disrespect intended, but Rams offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer likes the Denver duo of Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware. “Since we don’t play Kansas City again this year, I’ll say Denver’s clearly better,” Schottenheimer said. Ware and Miller have 17 sacks between them this season. Miller moves around some, but will play mainly over RT Joe Barksdale.
RUSH HOUR
Tre Mason clearly has moved into feature back status in the Rams’ backfield, but the going will be tough against Denver’s run defense. The Broncos allow only 67 yards rushing per game and only 3.2 yards per carry — both league bests. The man-mountain with one of the NFL’s best nicknames, DT Terrance “Pot Roast” Knighton, clogs the middle. The Broncos have allowed only 11 runs of 10 yards or more all season — yes, another league best.
RUSH HOUR II
The Broncos will be missing their leading rusher against the Rams; Ronnie Hillman has been ruled out with a foot injury. So C.J. Anderson, who had 163 yards rushing and receiving last week in Oakland, is expected to get the start. Montee Ball (Timberland High), who began the year as the starter, is set to return after missing the last five games with a groin injury. So the Broncos shouldn’t miss a beat without Hillman in the lineup.
LOTS OF RECEIVERS
With Marcus Roberson (ankle) ruled out and Lamarcus Joyner (groin) doubtful, the Rams are paper thin at corner. So this isn’t the best time to see Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders and Wes Welker come to town. Thomas has a current streak of six consecutive 100-yard receiving games — a franchise record. Sanders already has set a career high for single-season receiving yards (852). Welker has 867 career catches, most for an undrafted player in NFL history.
THE “OTHER” THOMAS
If only the Rams just had to worry about the Denver wideouts. At tight end, Julius Thomas has been a scoring machine, with 12 TD catches in nine games. He’s the first TE in NFL history with at least 12 TDs in back-to-back seasons, proving his breakout year of 2013 was no fluke. At 6-5 and 250 pounds, Thomas literally is a huge challenge for Rams safeties and linebackers in coverage. The only saving grace would be if Thomas gets called upon to stay in more as a blocker.
znModeratorLot of guys are down on him. I am not. I actually think that with Davis at qb, Tavon wasn’t going to get much action…but that was more Davis than Tavon. See my post above, which describes one play where Davis just flat did not see him running wide open (it was on the play that led to the 1st INT against ARZ.) I won’t make any judgements about how Tavon is doing until I see how it goes in some games with Hill.
znModeratorCosell good as usual. Good details.
znModerator
Rams-Broncos: Matchup breakdown
By Nick Wagonerhttp://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/13607/rams-broncos-matchup-breakdown
EARTH CITY, Mo. — A look at three individual matchups to keep an eye on when the St. Louis Rams and Denver Broncos meet this Sunday at 1 p.m. ET.
Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald vs. Broncos right guard Manny Ramirez/Whoever starts at right guard
Clearly, the Broncos are unhappy with the production they are getting from the interior of their offensive line. They’ve played musical chairs over the past few weeks and even went so far this week as to bring in former Ram Richie Incognito for a workout and a visit. Denver didn’t sign Incognito but left the door open to add him later on.
Ramirez started for the Broncos against Oakland last week after spending the season at his more traditional spot at center. All of that movement isn’t good for an offensive line that will be tested by the Rams’ surging pass rush. The Rams have 17 sacks over the past four weeks (including one for Robert Quinn that the league plans to credit but hasn’t yet), most in the NFL. That production coincides nicely with the emergence of Donald as the starter at left defensive tackle.
Donald has been a terror from day one, posting three sacks and 12 tackles for loss. Rams coaches have credited him with 18 quarterback pressures and eight quarterback hits. Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning is the best in the world at getting the ball out quick which can help neutralize the pass rush off the edge but if nobody can slow Donald, things will get much more interesting in this one.
Rams left tackle Greg Robinson vs. Broncos right defensive end DeMarcus Ware
After watching Ware throttle Rams left tackle Jake Long in the Dallas game in 2013, many Rams fans are probably happy not to have to watch a rematch here. But that doesn’t mean that things will be any easier when it comes to blocking Ware. One of the best pass-rushers of his generation and still productive in his new home, Ware has eight sacks this season.
The reality is that when the Broncos get in a groove, coordinator Jack Del Rio will move Ware and fellow pass-rusher extraordinaire Von Miller all over the formation which means Robinson will get plenty of different looks throughout the game. But the primary matchup he’ll face is Ware. Robinson has seen some good pass-rushers in his first two starts at left tackle but none the caliber of Ware.
Robinson is still refining his understanding of angles and getting into his set. Physically, he has the ability to keep up with Ware but Ware will challenge him in ways he hasn’t been with his array of pass-rush moves and intellect.
Rams cornerback Janoris Jenkins vs. Broncos wide receiver Demaryius Thomas
Earlier this season, the Rams used Jenkins to shadow the opponent’s top wide receiver. The results of that experiment were mixed with good moments against the likes of Dallas’ Dez Bryant to go with bad ones. Jenkins has been hobbled by a knee injury of late and returned last week against Arizona. This week, he appears to be closer to full strength and should see his workload get back close to normal levels.
But the challenge awaiting Jenkins is perhaps the biggest of the season. Thomas has 1,002 receiving yards with six touchdowns, and at 6-foot-3, 229 pounds is one of the most physically impressive wideouts in the league. For whatever reason, Jenkins has always seemed to fare a bit better against bigger receivers but Thomas is also one of the best. Jenkins has a knack for staying with a top wideout for a number of plays then giving up a big one. It remains to be seen if the Rams will use Jenkins or anyone to shadow Thomas but either way, they can ill afford to allow yet another big play for a touchdown in the passing game.
znModeratorW2W4: St. Louis Rams
By Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/13682/w2w4-st-louis-rams-14
EARTH CITY, Mo. — The St. Louis Rams and the Denver Broncos kick off Week 11 on Sunday at the Edward Jones Dome. Kickoff is set for 1 p.m. ET on CBS regional coverage.
Here are three things to watch from the Rams’ perspective:
1. The best defense: For as much as we’ll talk about how great Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning is and how difficult of a challenge it is for the defense to slow him and the Denver offense down, the easiest way to stop Manning is to keep him on the sideline. That means establishing an offense capable of consistently moving the chains, extending drives and not turning the ball over. Sounds good, right?
Well, the Rams haven’t exactly been doing any of those things well in recent weeks. The Broncos are first in the league in run defense and not just because teams are throwing a lot by trying to catch up. They’re holding opponents to just 3.19 yards per carry, which is also first in the NFL. The Rams, meanwhile have yet to establish the running game many thought they would. They’ve finally settled on Tre Mason as the primary ballcarrier and he’s flashed promise at times but hasn’t consistently been able to generate yards.
One major key for the Rams is getting better on third down. They were 1-of-10 last week against Arizona and if they can’t keep the chains moving, that means too many chances for Manning.
2. Getting after Manning: Pressuring Manning is easier said than done because he’s one of the best ever at getting rid of the ball quickly. So far this season, Manning is getting rid of the ball after just 2.29 seconds which is second quickest in the league. That means there isn’t much time for the Rams to get after him or for their blitz-heavy packages (they lead the league in blitz percentage) to get home but if there’s going to be a way to get to Manning, it will likely have to be up the middle.
Denver’s offensive line has been in flux the past few weeks, particularly on the interior. That could mean some opportunities for the Rams defensive tackles, especially rookie Aaron Donald. Donald has consistently terrorized quarterbacks in his first nine games and would seem to have an advantage against the musical chairs in the middle.
To slow Manning and the Broncos offense, the Rams will have to do enough in coverage to force him to go to his second or third read and hope that buys them enough time to get in the backfield.
3. Turning to Hill: With veteran Shaun Hill back in the saddle at quarterback, the Rams are hoping that they can cut down on the costly turnovers and mistakes that have plagued them over the past few weeks. Removing Austin Davis from the starting lineup was done mostly because of his propensity for turnovers (six that turned into defensive touchdowns, including five in the fourth quarter).
Hill is in his 14th NFL season and has plenty of experience which should allow him to manage the game. The Rams won’t put the game in Hill’s hands but his primary job will be not to lose it. As always, it’s worth watching the turnover battle but if Hill does give it up, when and where it happens is also something to keep an eye on.
znModeratorWaterfield, and company, I think this may be a “public house” forum thread. That’s not a big deal…but I will probably move it, just not in any “big rush, rules come first” kinda way.
znModeratorNothing I say here is admonishing or judgemental. I am just trying to analyze a dynamic, to the best of my ability to do that. It’s all intended to be simply rational and neutral. And, I give you enormous credit for asking, and bringing something into the light of discussion.
So. My main point is that racial issues don’t break down into simple symmetries. In fact language doesn’t work that way–it’s not a series of abstractions. Meaning is heavily dependent on context.
For example, if someone said, “I am proud of my african-american heritage” it means certain things. And it is set against a certain background–where black men and women were supposed to think of themselves as lower on the scale of human value. To be proud of your heritage therefore means you are taking something back from history and setting it right. “I was supposed to be ashamed of my heritage in the past but screw that, I assert pride. I take my heritage back as a proud thing.”
It is NOT a symmetrical statement to say “I am proud of my white heritage.” That’s just not the same thing. For one thing, like it or not, the term “white heritage” refers to ideas of white supremacy. And in fact the people who say that? That’s precisely what they mean. There are people who say “I am proud of my Engish heritage” (or French or Ukrainian) and that is much more neutral a thing to say.
So, whenever african-american qbs are discussed, there’s the Warren Moon problem–there’s a history there of saying that in fact african-americans couldn’t be quarterbacks, they didn’t have the mental skills.
So like it or not, saying “xyx is a black Bradshaw” is still more loaded because it draws attention to race, in a way that reminds people that previously, african-americans were not given the chance to play qb same as whites, mostly because of prejudices. So there, there’s a history of divisions between “quarterbacks” and “BLACK quarterbacks,” where “black” can’t help but sound like a qualification. It marks a difference. In the history of the term “black quarterback” it quite often meant “not really just a quarterback.”
So putting it that way means drawing attention to race in a way you don’t have to, and undoubtedly don’t mean to, because your statement — to others — is seen in a context where racial issues have a way of being loaded.
So for example why not just say “Winston has vision as good as Montana.”
Meanwhile, as I said these things are NOT symmetrical. Because, interestingly, saying “Manziel is a white Russel Wilson” (which is ridiculous but it’s just an example) does not draw attention to the exclusion of whites from being quarterbacks since that didn’t happen. It also sets Wilson up as a standard, which erases the old “blacks can’t play qb” history.
Now is it RACIST to say what you said?
Not according to my definition of racist.
Is it unwise to say it your way? IMO yes…because it exposes the fact that you think language is symmetrical when it comes to issues of race. But, it flat isn’t symmetrical. And you know who automatically KNOWS it isn’t? The vast majority of african-americans.
znModeratorHow are gifs widely available? Explain. Maybe I am just uninformed about this. I thought that whenever we saw gifs of a plays in a post, the poster made them, just like with screen caps.
znModeratorI guess I could have but I post gifs on the board all of the time. There out there for anybody to gather.
Okay, but…it would be wrong of people copying and re-posting your gifs to not credit you.
When it comes to posters, always credit a guy’s work.
That’s just net etiquette.
You not caring personally if you are credited when re-posted is not the same as it being okay if everyone just copies without crediting.
Just a courtesy thing.
Otherwise, you could be taken as claiming YOU did that work.
Fair enough?
znModeratorRams Vs. Broncos: Shane’s Select Seven
Shane Gray
http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLc…5401/Rams-Vs-Broncos-Shanes-Select-Seven.aspx
While the St. Louis Rams finalized a daunting three game road trip last week and will return to home action this weekend for the first time in a month, the Denver Broncos remain road warriors as they conclude their own three game road trek with a matchup at the dome.
The Broncos stand alone atop the AFC West with a 7-2 season record. The Rams, on the other hand, sit in the solitude of the NFC West’s cellar with a 3-6 mark.
Help From Hill
After posting strong ratings of 98 or above in four of his first five starts, quarterback Austin Davis came back to earth in generating 75.4, 44.6 and 62.6 ratings in his last three outings.
With Davis struggling of late, Rams Head Coach Jeff Fisher felt it was prudent to reevaluate the quarterback position and, in doing so, decided it was time to lean on veteran Shaun Hill, 34.
“We looked at things Monday night and I had lengthy discussions with the offensive staff and just felt that the best thing to do, at this point moving forward, was to lean on the experienced quarterback,” Fisher explained. “I told the team today in front of Austin (Davis) how much I appreciated Austin and his work ethic and his poise, his dedication and the tireless effort that he put in to prepare himself to play. He’s much better now than he was when he started, but made the decision to go ahead and play with Shaun (Hill).”
“We’re moving forward with an experienced quarterback that for all intensive purposes lost his job because of injury,” Fisher continued. “You all understand why we went that way because of the production that we got earlier out of Austin. Again, I don’t want to present anything that appears to be cloudy, but this is in my opinion and the offensive staff’s opinion, what’s best for this football team right now.”
According to Offensive Coordinator Brian Schottenheimer, the decision to demote Davis was most influenced by his recent propensity for turnovers. In his first five starts, he threw a total of three interceptions. However, in just his last three games, Davis has racked up five picks.
“Obviously, we went back and looked at things and Austin (Davis) has played really well for the most part,” Scottenheimer said Wednesday. “I think the big thing for us was the turnovers. It’s hard to win in this league when you’re turning the football over.”
While Davis has handled his return to the backup role in the classy manner that one would expect of the Southern Mississippi product, Hill is understandably excited to step back into the lineup after a 10-week hiatus.
“Obviously there’s some excitement that kicks in and things like that,” Hill admitted. “Now it’s kind of back to business as usual. I’m just 1/11th on offense. You go out and you prepare the best you can for Sunday.”
While Hill is happy to be back on the field, many wonder how much rust he will need to shake off after a two-and-a-half month layoff from live action on the gridiron.
Schottenheimer, however, does not seem overly concerned about that and feels Hill will be ready.
“He looked really good out here,” Schottenheimer said of Hill’s practice outings this week. “He’s been preparing. He’s a pro. He’s been in this role before. We were teasing a little bit that he looked a little out of shape and maybe had too many snacks over the last couple weeks, but he’s looked really pretty good and done a nice job. The ball’s coming out of his hand well. He’s making good, clean decisions. I don’t see the rust.”
In 27 career starts, Hill has compiled a 13-14 career record. He and the Rams hope he reaches the .500 mark Sunday in St. Louis.
The St. Louis Secondary
The extremely green St. Louis secondary has struggled against the pass for much of the season while also dealing with injuries to the likes of Trumaine Johnson, Janoris Jenkins and LeMarcus Joyner. The stats bear out the difficulties they have had in dealing with opposing air attacks, with the Rams giving up the highest completion percentage in the league (69.6) and the fourth highest passer rating (102.6).
While the St. Louis defensive backfield is the youngest in the NFL overall, Fisher credits his youthful group of safeties with helping to hold things down while dealing with the aforementioned injuries to several of the defense’s cornerbacks.
“I think T.J. (McDonald) is playing the safety position right now as good as any safety in the league,” Fisher asserted. “The last couple weeks I think that his play and body of work speaks for itself. He’s making plays. He’s all over the field. He’s going to continue to do that. We got production out of Mark (Barron) last week in a package. Rod’s (Rodney McLeod) been playing very well. These guys have been holding the corners together because we’ve been rolling the young corners. Obviously, now that (CB Trumaine Johnson) Tru’s back and (CB Janoris Jenkins) Jenks is back, (CB E.J. Gaines) E.J.’s going to get some work inside because (CB) Lamarcus (Joyner) looks doubtful for this week. Those guys (at safety) have pretty much been the glue in the secondary.”
This week against future first ball Hall of Fame QB Peyton Manning, that glue and this group is going to face perhaps its stiffest test of the season. Entering this game, Denver is second in points per game, third in offensive yardage per contest, second in passer rating, third in yards per pass attempted and fifth-best on third downs.
Measuring Manning
Coaches have used almost every adjective and cliche imaginable in attempting to desribe the dynamic and other-wordly production of 13-time Pro Bowler and seven-time All-Pro Manning over his illustrious career.
During a mid-week question and answer session with reporters, Fisher compared Manning to playing against a computer. Yes, a computer.
“I’ve said this before, it’s like playing a computer,” Fisher said. “That’s what he is. He runs that offense. He’s going to put them in the best possible position. He’s nearly impossible to fool and is hard to get down. If you rush more than four, the balls coming out and he’s not going to take the hit. That’s just how he is. He puts that offense in the best possible position every snap. If the run’s not there, then he’s going to pick it up and he’s going to change and he’s going to put the ball down the field. He’s prepared. He’s prepared week after week, year after year.”
Fisher went on to explain that he feels that Manning’s career is just now reaching its pinnacle state.
“There’s no doubt, Peyton’s playing his best football right now,” Fisher continued. “Faced him many, many times. He’s playing his best football. It’s amazing the things he’s doing with the football. The cast that they have surrounded him with is outstanding. It really tests your defense. It requires patience. You have to run the football and get their punter on the field. I’m trying to simplify things for you, but you run it on offense and your goal is to get their punter on the field. Then you have a chance.”
In looking at the numbers, it is tough to argue strongly against Fisher’s notion, what with Manning having 29 touchdowns as compared to just seven interceptions to this point in the campaign. His 112 rating this fall is the third-best of any in his career and his QBR is his second best ever.
According to Denver Head Coach John Fox, it it his preparation and adaptability that sets him apart from almost all other NFL signal callers.
“I just think the way he prepares himself, whether it’s physically or whether it’s mentally,” Fox stated. “He has a ‘raise all boats’ type of approach. It’s been huge for our offense. I think what he’s accomplished kind of speaks for itself. Coming off a year of not playing football, stepping into a new organization after being with one team for so long and the same teammates for so long. His ability to adjust and change and do it in a new place is pretty remarkable in my estimation.”
Obviously, Fisher has a long history of facing Manning after coaching against him at least twice per year while with the Titans in the AFC South. With that considered, Fisher readily realizes the difficulties his defense will face this week against the future first ballot Hall of Famer.
“It’s a tremendous challenge,” Fisher said. “One of the biggest challenges I’ve been associated with a staff is defending him and his offense.”
All that said, Fisher maintains he has high expectations for Defensive Coordinator Gregg Williams’ unit.
“We’ve had some success (against Manning),” Fisher said. “And we’re expecting to again. That’s the way you go into it.”
Considering the Clock
Sometimes, the keys to success in a football game are so simple they get overlooked by the masses. In facing Manning and the Broncos bold offensive arsenal, the most basic approach is the best: keep the football out of his hands as much as humanly possible.
Schottenheimer explained why this is important on Thursday.
“Every time that Peyton’s (Manning) on the bench that certainly is important, and their offense is on the bench,” explained Schottenheiemer. “Certainly have played him a lot of times. The times we’ve played well against him, going back to the days with the Jets in division playoff games and stuff like that, you win the time of possession battle. You stay on the field.”
“Again, part of that is getting into third down and manageable, converting third downs and sometimes avoiding third downs with explosive plays,” Schottenheimer continued. “It’s a rhythm thing. Again, I think the big thing for us this week because of time of possession is going to be running the football and throwing completions.”
Against a dynamite Denver defense, though, winning the time of possession battle may be easier said than done.
Denver’s Defense
Even though it’s the Broncos boisterous offense that gets most of the credit throughout Colorado and the broader pro football world, the defense has managed to become a top-tier unit while flying primarily under-the-radar.
On the year, the Denver D has been the league’s best in allowing just 3.2 yards per garry and 67 rushing yards per game. The longest run they have given up all season is a 25 yarder. Facing such a strong ground defense is highly problematic to the St. Louis offense as they need to run the ball effectively to use clock and keep the Broncos’ prolific offense off of the turf.
In addition to their dominance in run defense, Denver has the fifth fewest defensive penalties, ranks seventh in interceptions, seventh-best on third downs, tenth in sacks, ninth best (or lowest) passer rating allowed, tenth best (or lowest) passing completion percentage against and fourteenth in passing yards per game relinquished even while leading big in many of their contests.
“They’re awfully good, yeah,” Fisher said. “What happens typically when you have an offense that’s so potent and making so many big plays and has a scoring average per game that’s so high. The opposing offenses are playing catch-up. Those yards…you don’t want to call them garbage yards, but the defense is going to soften a little bit, give up some plays to win the game.
That happens to an outstanding defense. They are very difficult to run against. Both the edge rushers are outstanding and they get inside push. They’ve done a great job rebuilding their secondary, which was obviously a focus. I think they’ve got a great group of linebackers. We’re going to have to play very well.”
As good as the Denver defense has been, former All-Pro linebacker Von Miller feels they are only going to continue to improve.
“I feel like we still haven’t got to playing the type of football that we know we’re capable of playing,” Miller said. “I feel like we’re getting better and better every week. Our run defense is probably our identity right now. A good first- and second-down defense makes a good third-down defense. I think we’re just starting to get better, preparing for this stretch that we’ve got coming up.”
Dynamic Duo
It isn’t often that we find ourselves halfway through November and find one team touting two of the top 10 indivual sack artists.
In Denver, though, three-time Pro Bowl linebacker Von Miller has nine sacks while seven-time Pro Bowl defensive end DeMarcus Ware has eight—good for sixth and tenth in the NFL, respectively.
The duo doesn’t spend its time competing or trying to top the other in production, though, but instead works hard to help each other be the best they can be.
We’ve got a healthy work-minded relationship,” Miller said in a conference call with Rams reporters Wednesday. “Every day he (Ware) pushes me. I go out there and push him. It’s all healthy and it’s helping our team. I enjoy DeMarcus. I love coming to work every single day, being around him and watching the way he prepares and I think it’s helped me with my game as well.”
Schottenheimer is certainly well aware of the problems the carnivorous combo will present to his offense.
“They create a lot of problems and they play really hard,” Schottenheimer suggested. “It’s a little bit of a benefit obviously, playing them at home, not having to go into the noise. The guy that’s really jumped out just because they move him around quite a little bit is Von (Miller). He’s just really explosive, great spin moves, but we certainly respect them both and they’re really, really good players. Nothing surprising there. You’ve got to do things to keep them off balanced and we’ll certainly try to do that, but it will be a long day if we can’t control those guys.”
“In most of the passing situations he’ll (Miller) be on our right going against (RT) Joe (Barksdale). DeMarcus (Ware) will be on the left. Again, two elite pass rushers, not only are they great rushers, they have great technique and they play extremely hard. They don’t give up and a lot of the sacks they get are second effort plays.”
Obviously, the St. Louis pass protection better be on its collective “A” game come noon Sunday. If not, it will likely be a long day for Hill and the Rams air attack.
Home Sweet Home
After a three-game stretch away from home, St. Louis returns to the dome on Sunday for some home cooking. While away, the Rams were competitive, but won just one of those three contests outside of the Gateway City.
This week, Fisher and the Rams are excited to be playing back under the mighty shadow of the Gateway Arch.
“It’s been an eventful three weeks,” Fisher said. “This young team’s learned how to travel, but you can’t beat playing at home.”
This week, however, a relatively nearby Denver club comes to town with a 7-2 record.
That, along with the pressing stadium issue, the current 3-6 record and a decade-long run of futility may make the dome feel more like a neutral-crowd atmosphere.
Either way, the Rams will have a lot more fans pulling for them this week at home than they have in any of the games they have played in roughly a month.
That alone should be helpful to this still young Rams roster. It just may not be quite as helpful as it would be under more ideal conditions.
November 15, 2014 at 11:20 am in reply to: Does anyone here believe we can beat Denver on Sunday? #11866
znModeratorJust a quick historical note.
The Williams D has been up against Manning a few times in the last few years. This kind of info is provisional of course because there were different personnel each time.
Tenn. in 2013. Wms had a hand in that D, according to reporters. Titans lost to Denver 28-51.
N.O. in 2009. Saints beat Manning Colts in the superbowl, 31-17.
Washington in 2006. Colts win 36-22.
znModeratorThis is good stuff.
Keep an eye out for the “in gifs” threads, they’re always good.
November 15, 2014 at 10:40 am in reply to: I said it once and I'll say it again (L.A. thread) #11863
znModeratorI added “LA thread” to the title so it’s just clear. We tend to have only one LA thread per page, so the title change will let those who want to discuss/comment on this issue know where it is.
znModeratorKnowing what you know after a season
and a half — would you draft Tavon
at the no.8 spot again?Yes? No? Maybe?
Dunno?I doubt if i would. The experiment
has been disappointing so far.Maybe he’ll come on a bit in year
three like Quick did. Maybe not.I’m not happy about the way BS
uses him, but thats a separate subject.w
vWell…disappointing?
Too soon for me to say.
Here’s one example of why IMO it’s too soon to say:
==
http://www.101sports.com/2014/11/12/three-plays-defined-rams-loss-cardinals/
With 7:31 left on the clock, the Rams face a first-and-10 from their own 25-yard line. They come out in an off-set I with receivers Tavon Austin and Kenny Britt lined up to the left of the formation, and Chris Givens as the lone receiver to the right.
Austin comes in motion toward the line of scrimmage and, at the snap, runs a crossing pattern that results in him being wide open as Patrick Peterson (who was in man-to-man coverage on Givens) runs into safety Rashad Johnson, while Givens takes his route inside the numbers. But instead of an easy completion to Austin, Davis looks off Britt (who was double-covered on a deep route) and throws a horrendous pass that Peterson easily intercepts near midfield.
There are three telling factors about this play. One, Davis has trouble seeing the field because if he could, he would have seen that Austin was wide open. Two, Davis doesn’t have the arm strength to complete the deep out because if he did, he may have still been able to get the pass over Peterson and to Givens for a big completion. Three, the Rams’ offense is struggling so much right now that even when things break their way (i.e. Peterson taking out his own teammate in coverage), they still can’t seize the moment.
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