One would think that would put Foles in line for a pretty nice deal.

I don’t think he’d be in that upper echelon, but let’s put him more in line with someone like Kansas City’s Alex Smith. Smith got four years at an average of about $17 million a season with $19 million guaranteed upfront (and more guarantees to take it closer to $45 million in guarantees upon simply sticking around for a year or two).

This is what I have been seeing with contracts. Starting qbs up for their 2nd deals are getting roughly the same money. Smith, for example, is not in Foles’s “group” when it comes to that. Smith’s deal was not a 2nd contract. It belongs more to the category of a 3rd or 4th contract with a new team. His cohort includes people like Palmer.

Foles is in the same cohort as Wilson and Kaepernick and Newton. Those guys WERE getting around 18 M, with some guys below the avg. (Dalton, 16 M) and some guys above it (Flacco, 20 M). The operative market logic seems to be that IF he is your starting qb AND you want him back and tied up contractually, you pay around the market avg. give or take. It’s either that or someone else pays it; OR no one sees him as starting caliber, in which case he is in a different category (like McCoy).

Different deals can be structured differently, so I am just talking about the avg. amount per year.

The avg. WAS 18 M, give or take, but Newton may have pushed the avg. up (every few years it goes up). Wilson will probably get more like Newton money. So there is a very good chance the avg. will soon be 19 M, with 17 M at the low end and 21 M at the high end. Luck may raise it even more, unless Luck just gets taken as an exception whose deal will not fall within market parameters.

I should stress that if you look at the deals, this has nothing to do with what we think a guy is “worth.” There’s no calculation out there saying if you’re Flacco you aren’t “worth as much” as Rodgers. Performance is a factor when it comes to the “more or less the avg.” calculations, but the driving thing is the market.

It really is simple, IMO. If the Rams see Foles as their starting qb, or to be more accurate but roundabout, as A starting caliber qb they are willing to keep (rather than risk starting over), then he gets the market avg. It’s either that or he’s someone else’s qb. So it really is more like this: do they see him as A starting caliber qb, and are they therefore willing to commit to him at that price OR do they have or want alternatives.

There’s no such thing as paying him less if he doesn’t make your TD quota. If
you want to keep him as your starting qb, you pay him the market avg. (give or take), or you move on.

So far I am in this (ie this thread) for Good Reads. Which is on track and working, as you would expect (ie. there’s good reads here). As usual I will delay my own 2 cents worth. In the meanwhile, here’s another good read. The more the merrier.

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from off the net

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Blockandtackle2

Fisher has some great qualities as a leader and a coach. He has a specific style of coaching and a style of play. It’s not for everyone. Of course, winning is good enough for most people and with a winning record thus would hardly be much of an issue. Rams are not winning. So, the Fisher style of play gets analyzed and picked apart, play by play. Expected.

For the past year, maybe longer, the general feedback from opponents has been that the Rams are a tough team to play, very physical and aggressive. It has taken time to rebuild the roster but the Rams are not a pushover. They were for a long time. That has changed. The roster depth is improved. The one area that has not improved is the Oline. You can’t fix everything at once but the Rams started with D and STs, which makes sense. The offense received a bandaid with FA signings of overpaid, hope for the best type players that losing teams sometimes have to deal with because players don’t always want to go to a rebuilding team no matter what you pay them. It was a gamble in my opinion and one that Fisher/Snead lost. It happens. They did well with Langford. They did poorly with Jake Long. Unfortunately, the Oline was already the weak link (not counting Qcool smiley and any losses on the line were going to hurt…..and hurt a lot. But, I don’t know how you plan for all the injuries with the understanding that the Oline rebuild was not complete before the season started.

The injuries across the roster and especially to Bradford hindered the possibility of a winning season. The Rams while improving starters and depth cannot overcome and compete with backups no matter who coaches them. The idea that you can breakdown a game into one or two plays that a coach could avoid…..dropped passes, false starts, etc. sounds good unless you consider that these players would normally be on the bench (maybe for that exact reason!) ( hey, I can project, too!).

For me, last season was screwed the minute Bradford went down. I had a fleeting 1999 type feeling when the offense clicked a bit. Then the Oline injuries and shifting of personnel started. I just enjoyed the individual plays and how hard the Rams competed game in and game out. Yeah, they had a bad game or two but overall they showed serious promise and I think the league gives them much deserved respect as an up and comer. I read that Rams need to fix the QB and Oline which makes sense. I hear that the corners have to play with more discipline. I agree. I don’t hear much about coaching problems that need to be fixed with the exception of some posters here.

I don’t know if Fisher ever gets them over the top but I think he will. I stand by my opinion that the Rams have winning record with almost any top 15 QB. Because, I think that has been the issue for five years or more. Yes, the roster needed better players. That is much improved. They need a top 10-15 QB.

Fisher teams compete and they break down other teams. They need that QB that can close the deal.

I’m really hoping Foles can be that guy. If not, Fisher will still be a coaching problem.

Zach Ertz: Sam Bradford puts ball ‘wherever he wants’

By Phil Sheridan, ESPN Staff Writer

http://espn.go.com/blog/philadelphia-eagles/post/_/id/12374/zach-ertz-sam-bradford-puts-ball-wherever-he-wants

PHILADELPHIA – Zach Ertz made a splash this offseason by saying that Sam Bradford was the hardest-throwing quarterback he’s ever worked with.

Considering that Ertz caught passes from Michael Vick, Nick Foles and Mark Sanchez during his two seasons with the Eagles, that was quite a comment. Throw in Andrew Luck, Ertz’s quarterback when the two were teammates at Stanford, and you really get a pretty impressive list.

Sam Bradford is fitting in well with the Eagles, tight end Zach Ertz said. Bill Streicher/USA TODAY Sports But it turns out there’s more. Ertz has gone to San Diego to work out with trainer Todd Durkin during this offseason. Durkin trains Saints quarterback Drew Brees, who was not throwing while Ertz was there.

“He was kind of taking a rest,” Ertz said. “But I threw with [Seattle’s] Russell Wilson. I threw with Andrew [Luck] back at Stanford. Wherever there’s a good quarterback, I’m going to try to go. I just focus on getting open. When the ball is there, catch the ball.”

At the Eagles’ practice Monday, Ertz caught a 50-yard touchdown pass from Bradford during 7-on-7 drills. “The guy can put it wherever he wants,” Ertz said. “It’s fun running deep and having faith the ball’s going to be exactly where it needs to be. On that 50-yard completion, I didn’t have to do too much – just run as fast as I could. He put the ball exactly where he needed to.”

Bradford talked the other day about building relationships with his teammates. Even though his knee hasn’t been cleared for full participation in practice yet, Bradford said he makes a point of talking to receivers after a play or spending time together in the film room. “Just coming in here to work every single day,” Ertz said, in answer to a question about what Bradford has done to fit in. “We don’t need him to be a rah-rah guy. We have a lot of rah-rah guys, motivational guys like DeMeco [Ryans] and Malcolm [Jenkins] and some of the guys on offense like JP [Jason Peters] who are going to rile guys up.

“Sam comes in and works every single day. It’s tough being the new guy, especially when you’re a quarterback, and having that leadership role. But he comes in every single day. You see him every day in the weight room, working hard and getting the knee ready. We have all the faith in the world in him.”

Agamemnon wrote:

I think Fisher protects his players so much in preseason and plays so basic that in effect, the first game of the regular season is another preseason game. I think this puts him behind, cause winning game one is just as important as any other game. They all count one game.

Fwiw, I am actually one of those who doesn’t endorse the holds back/starts slow argument. I think if you look at the last 2 seasons, the reasons for not being at least 2-2 before game 5 has to do with other stuff.

D’marco Farr:

I’d be shocked if Tim Barnes and second-round pick Rob Havenstein (6-7, 321) are not week one starters at center and right tackle, respectively.

…

Is Barnes better than the beat up version of Scott Wells in 2014? There are doubters, but let’s let the Rams’ center answer that question when he stumps for a starting role in training camp. He’s going to have to convince the decision makers with his pads.

I am not this Barnes flag-waver. I am all “wait and see” on the centers. I have no idea who will win the starting job and/or who if anyone gets cut.

But, why would Farr make positive assumptions about Barnes at this point?

My guess is, that all things being equal, he would just prefer the experience. The next question is, ARE all things equal? Right now Farr thinks they are, and I assume that comes from watching them practice this year. Though I am sure he would add it’s still early and a lot could still happen.

Some say they didn’t tender him which tells us what to think of what they think of him. (But then, if they thought that, why is he in a 3-way competition? Do you bring back someone you don’t like for a 3-way competition?) Some say the Rams and Barnes already had an understanding about the money and that he was just not going to sign anywhere else. Both views are just speculation, IMO, though not wild out of bounds speculation.

I think Jones is the fan favorite.

On Barnes. If he comes through and holds his own, it would not surprise me, because it would not be the first time a developmental lineman had a turning point and came through. Mebane did handle him when he played in 2013, but then, maybe that means he learned from it and the adding bulk and strength (which he reportedly did_ was part of the lesson. But again, who’s to say at this point.

Rhaney is an intriguing prospect. Him being the youngest of the 3 doesn’t daunt me—last year, for example, the league had several rookie centers who had to play or start from the get-go, and a couple of them did quite well for themselves. So I don’t rule him out, either.

Me? I like the idea that all 3 could turn out fine…and so far, because it;s early, I don’t have a favorite. You know, in theory, this could go anywhere from not one of them coming through, to one of them does and it’s fine, all the way up to all three being starting caliber and good. I could see reasons for any of those scenarios happening.

Agamemnon wrote:

Did they ever use a fourth pure DT on passing downs?

Not counting Westbrooks, Hayes, or Sims? Apparently they used 4…though it’s hard to say about passing downs. It registered as invisible but Carrington got some snaps, seemingly while demonstrating that he wasn’t Nick Fairley.

wv wrote:

Five pounds of muscle a week?

I dunno. Is that possible?

w
v

Yeah I wondered about that.

Maybe if he drank buckets of raw eggs and ran around the city punching sides of beef?

Three Rams linemen compete to take over at center

By Joe Lyons

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/three-rams-linemen-compete-to-take-over-at-center/article_72b87957-c974-5b2a-ae52-87846be09575.html

Going into the final week of OTAs at Rams Park, the battle at center appears to be a three-man race involving Tim Barnes, Barrett Jones and Demetrius Rhaney.

That’s not likely to change any time soon.

“We’re not going to make a decision real early,” coach Jeff Fisher said. “We’ll let them all play. We’re rotating them. They’re all getting opportunities to work with (new quarterback Nick Foles), so he’s familiar, not only with the exchanges, but also the communication. We’ll make that decision when somebody shows us he’s earned the job.”

Scott Wells, an 11-year pro who won a Super Bowl and earned a spot in the Pro Bowl in 2011 with the Green Bay Packers, signed as a free agent with the Rams in 2012 and spent the last three seasons as the team’s center – when he was healthy.

Wells missed the first nine games of 2012 with a foot injury and sat out the final four games of 2013 with a fractured fibula. The 34-year-old battled through injuries to make all 16 starts a year ago and was released, along with tackle Jake Long, in March.

“Jake and Scott brought experience and professionalism to our program and we appreciate that commitment and hard work,” Fisher said at the time. “Both of them overcame injury difficulties and provided leadership for our younger players.”

Both Barnes and Jones said they learned a lot from Wells.

“I always made a point to sit next to Scott in the meeting room,” said Barnes, a fourth-year pro from the University of Missouri. “Over the last few years, I asked him a ton of questions.”

Jones added: “I’m grateful for the time he took to teach me a few tricks of the trade. His approach to the game, week by week, and the way he broke down film, he showed us what being a pro is all about.”

But with Wells gone, there’s an opportunity for someone else at center and, for now at least, Barnes, Jones and Rhaney are rotating in practice to give all three a chance to work as starters and as back-ups.

“It’s kind of strange because we’re good friends and we’re competing for the same job,” Jones said. “We’re working hard and pushing each other because we know that’s best for the team.

“At the same time, you try not to worry too much about the big picture because I think you can be consumed by that and it’s not healthy. All you can do is work hard every day and let the rest take care of itself.”

Jones, 25, won three national titles at Alabama and earned All-American honors at three different positions before being selected by the Rams in the fourth round of the 2013 draft. He entered the league as one of the most decorated offensive linemen in college football history, but his development with the Rams has been slowed by injury.

Jones suffered an injury to his left foot late in his college career, and the eventual surgery severely limited his training heading into his rookie campaign. That season, he played in three late-season games on special teams.

Jones, who stands 6-foot-4 and weights 308 pounds, ran into similar problems early in training camp last year, suffering a back injury that required surgery and limited him to just seven games of special-teams action.

“It’s just fun to be out here competing,” he said following a recent session at Rams Park. “I feel as good as I’ve felt in a long time. I’ll tell you, it’s tough going up against our D-line when you’re not 100 percent. But I’ve been able to work out all through the offseason, able to add some muscle and lean up a little bit. I don’t know the exact numbers — big guys, we get a little anxious about those body-fat tests — but I feel great and I’m really looking forward to competing at training camp.”

Jones knows this is a pivotal season. “It’s a performance-based league,’’ he said, “and I have to perform.”

Barnes, 27, of Longwood, Mo., signed with the Rams in 2011 after spending some time in training camp with Baltimore. In three seasons, he has played in 45 games, including four starts in place of Wells to close out the 2013 campaign.

“This is something I’ve been working for as long as I’ve been in the league, working my way up from the practice squad to backup and special teams,” Barnes said. “It’s a chance to compete and to hopefully show that I can do the job.”

Like Jones, Barnes knows the pressure is on.

“When I’m out there, I have to make every rep count,” the 6-foot-4, 306-pounder said. “As a professional, you never want to be too satisfied, so you really have to focus on the details — your technique and your fundamentals. Right now, I’m working to get comfortable with Nick and the other quarterbacks and to be as consistent as possible.”

To this point, Rhaney’s claim to fame is his draft position. He was selected in the seventh round of the 2014 draft, one pick after Mizzou defensive end Michael Sam, the first openly gay player drafted into the NFL.

The 6-2, 301-pounder from Tennessee State spent his rookie season on injured reserve after suffering a knee injury during training camp a year ago.

“Turned out to be a redshirt year, I guess,” the 22-year-old said. “It gave me a chance to learn my playbook, to get stronger and to learn from (offensive line coach Paul T. Boudreau), coach (Fisher) and (assistant offensive line coach Andy Dickerson).

“My knee feels great. I’m stronger and I’m still moving around pretty well, even with the knee brace.”

The Rams have been impressed with Rhaney’s quick feet and low center of gravity.

“The coaches keep telling us that it’s anybody’s job and I’m going to compete and really go after it,” Rhaney said. “We’re going to compete hard every single day and in the end the guy who shows he can do the best job is the one who’ll end up starting.”

Robinson has spent the offseason recovering from a turf toe injury suffered in the season finale against Seattle and attempting to get in better shape.

I thought that was earlier on.

Nope. End of the season.

5 Takeaways from the Week’s OTAs

Myles Simmons

http://www.stlouisrams.com/news-and-events/article-1/5-Takeaways-from-the-Weeks-OTAs/2021fb61-e7f1-4a49-b56b-b330b39841f6

Between a charity softball game, a community field build project, and three organized team activity sessions, the Rams have had a busy week. But here are five takeaways from head coach Jeff Fisher’s media availability from the second set of OTA sessions.

1) Rotating centers

The Rams have been cycling through three players at center along the offensive line at OTAs: Barrett Jones, Tim Barnes, and Demetreus Rhaney. Fisher said on Tuesday that the team will be patient in making the decision for who will start.

“They’re all getting opportunities to work with Nick, so he’s familiar, not only with the exchanges, but also the communication,” Fisher said. “We’ll make that decision when somebody shows us he’s earned the job.”

It’s important for whoever fills the role to not only master the physical, but also the mental tasks associated with the center position.

“There’s no indications at this point that there’s going to be limitations from the mental standpoint with the guys that are competing,” Fisher said. “They all understand.”

2) A trimmed down Fairley

Nick Fairley looked as svelte as ever when he signed with the Rams back in March. And while he’s dealt with overweight issues in the past, Fisher said he was actually concerned about the defensive tackle being underweight.

“Nick’s changed his lifestyle, changed his diet,” Fisher said. “We’re trying to get some weight back on him right now and he’s done it. He’s worked hard the last couple of weeks. He’s doing fine. His conditioning level is fine. If he’s going to compete with our guys up front, he’s going to have to run and he knows that.”

3) Robinson’s looking svelte, too

While Greg Robinson will never be confused for anything other than a massive man, it’s clear from standing near him that he looks slimmer this summer. He said last week that he’s down to 319 pounds from his high of 339.

“He’s been working here,” Fisher said. “He’s been rehabbing and he’s working and he feels good. His strength has increased. If there’s a little bit of weight loss and increase of strength, that’s a good thing.”

4) McLeod’s progression

Safety Rodney McLeod has evolved into a solid player in the St. Louis secondary. He’s started all 16 games the past two seasons, and Fisher said that McLeod is someone who takes a step forward each year.

“He gets the game,” Fisher said. “I thought he played really well last year. He misjudged a couple deep balls, but everybody does that. But I thought he was really active, knew what to do, and run-supported very well.”

5) Two generations of Hager

As the Eagles’ defensive coordinator in the late 1980s, Fisher was part of the coaching staff that drafted Britt Hager. Now, he’s coaching Britt’s son, Bryce. The Rams selected the linebacker in the 7th round of this year’s draft.

“It’s interesting because I got to the combine and I wasn’t interested in everybody there,” Fisher said. “I saw the name of the linebacker [and thought,] ‘I wonder if this is Britt’s kid.’ As it turns out it was. It’s a great story behind how Britt was drafted in Philly. He played a long time. There are similarities. Bryce looks a lot like his dad.”