InvaderRam wrote:

but the rams don’t need that caliber a receiver. they just need to get to a competent level.

I think these guys are at least at a competent level, on paper. I think what we got right now is an execution issue. Now if suddenly the Rams could upgrade at receiver, I would be for it. But that aside, I don’t think these guys are that bad. I think this is a slump of some kind.

Rams defense ranked sixth even without Ogletree, Long

By R.B. Fallstrom AP

http://www.foxsports.com/midwest/story/st-louis-rams-defense-ranked-sixth-even-without-alec-ogletree-chris-long-110415

ST. LOUIS — St. Louis’ defense is ranked sixth in the NFL, using a deep rotation to keep the pressure on opponents and keeping production high without two top starters.

The Rams dominated the last two games, allowing just four field goals.

“We’re just raising the bar every week,” said tackle Michael Brockers, who had a sack and combined with middle linebacker James Laurinaitis for a safety last week in a 27-6 victory over San Francisco. “We’re not being complacent with stats or what everybody is saying about you.”

Outside linebacker Alec Ogletree was leading the team in tackles when he was sidelined by a broken ankle. The Rams (4-3) moved rugged safety Mark Barron to linebacker and he had 19 tackles, a season best for the team, in a victory over Cleveland two weeks ago. End Chris Long will miss his third straight game with a knee injury this week at Minnesota (5-2), and backup William Hayes has stepped up to fill that void.

The Rams still have four former first-round picks on the line, an area of emphasis under coach Jeff Fisher and general manager Les Snead. They’re getting effective play out of all of them.

“We’ve got depth,” Fisher said. “When we’re moving people around, we’re still getting the production.”

Budget free-agent pickup Akeem Ayers has had his moments at outside linebacker. Undrafted end Ethan Westbrooks, who beat out Michael Sam for the final defensive line spot last summer, has a sack each of the last two games. Nick Fairley has been effective clogging the middle as part of the rotation, and Eugene Sims has had his moments spelling sack leader Robert Quinn, a Pro Bowler the last two years who has five on the year.

Tackle Aaron Donald, the NFL defensive rookie of the year last year, has again been a handful and has 4 1/2 sacks.

Numbers showed in the secondary last week, too. Maurice Alexander made a few nice tackles when starting safety T.J. McDonald was out for a short time, and Marcus Roberson made a stop when cornerback Trumaine Johnson needed a quick breather.

Fisher and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams didn’t have this luxury a few years ago or even last year when the team could only aspire to top 10 status.

“Somebody goes down for a few minutes or for a series, somebody goes in and there’s no drop-off,” Fisher said. “It’s not like you’re concerned about him or you have to protect him, or you’re concerned about an offense attacking that position.”

The 49ers were held to 189 yards last week, went just three for 17 on third down and were shut out in the second half. A week earlier the Rams had four sacks and recovered four fumbles against the Browns.

Hayes had two sacks, two forced fumbles and a fumble recovery against the Browns.

Williams stays on them, making sure nobody gets too big of a head.

“The best thing about Gregg is he sees big picture,” Laurinaitis said. “He tells us all the time we’re not even scratching the surface, that we can always be better, and I think everybody’s buying into that.”

It’s easy to sell this week, given the Vikings whipped the Rams 34-6 in last season’s opener. Wide receiver Cordarelle Patterson had 102 yards on just three carries, and Laurinaitis said the Rams basically made him look “untackle-able.”

“The last time they punched us right in the mouth out of the gate,” Laurinaitis said. “I think it’s always good to kind of go back and revisit those feelings.”

Notes: Rookie offensive tackle Rob Havenstein (Achilles) did not practice. He’s wearing a walking boot and Fisher is optimistic he’ll return to practice Friday after the players’ day off Thursday. … Quinn (knee) and Hayes (thigh) also did not practice but are expected to be fine for Sunday. … Running back/special teams ace Chase Reynolds (thigh) also was held out, and running back Tre Mason (ankle) and safety T.J. McDonald (foot) were limited. … Fisher said the Rams have not heard back from NFL operations “to my knowledge” about possible solutions to visiting players slipping on the concrete flooring in front of the stands.

This is going to be very dialectical because I don’t think the choices are stark ones. I think there’s a lot of gray areas here, and the differences I see are a matter of percentages, not a matter of clearcut choices.

Would you rather have Bradford and his contract or Foles and his contract and the draft picks? Do you think Sam would be better than Nick under center for the Rams this year?

Just theoretically, in terms of a pure circumstances-free comparison, I think it’s 6.5 of one and almost half a dozen of the other, but I would rather have Bradford. I think Bradford is the better pure passer and has a skill that would be very useful right now—he has a nice quick release v. Foles’s slower release. I also think that SB would be capable of attacking the longer medium range pass more effectively. I think he sees more in defenses and is quicker mentally when his primary isn’t there. I think Bradford has the much higher ceiling as a qb and had a knack for being effective in the redzone. Foles isn’t himself right now, though, IMO, and is kind of a mess since the GB game, so it’s not really a fair comparison.

I don’t care about the money. I don’t think the differences between Foles and Bradford are worth 9 M in 2015.

But then see the trade had nothing to do with their abilities as qbs. The Rams simply could not afford to see how the knee held up in 2015 with an entirely young line. Given that the trade was fair. Foles just needs to stabilize, and that can’t happen completely, IMO, until the OL stabilizes too.

I don’t believe Foles is a better leader. I think he’s a more outgoing personality, which is fine for the guys who like that. But then we don’t hear much about his leadership recently because it’s clear he’s struggling.

I never saw Bradford as a china doll. I think he had 2 freak knee injuries and that each injury had more to do with just unique circumstances. They had more to do with being off-balance with the leg at an awkward angle than they had to do with being hit. In fact he’s proving that now. He has been hit 34 times this year and sacked 13 times. So as I knew from watching him as a Ram, he takes hits. I always saw the knees as freak things. And in fact Bradford has made it through a higher percentage of HIS seasons healthy than Foles has.

BUT that’s about a theoretical choice between the 2, when the reality is, the trade was fine—the Rams didn’t want to be under the shadow of the knee, and Foles can be good in the right circumstances. (As I said, they need a stable OL). So I don’t resent the trade and I know Foles has his strengths. He can be a good qb for a play action offense and for a team with a strong defense. It’s just that right now the offense isn’t “there” yet. That’s just a matter of time.

.

lyser wrote:

He was fair at times. IMO. Not special.

I would say he was more than just fair. But then that leads either to a semantics debate, or quibbling over minor differences between the relative meanings of different words. One or the other.

.

I have a text from Mack saying he is on vacation for a few days so he can’t post in response.

So, it;s not that I waylaid him with the help of a couple of burly mercs for hire and then kept all his cake for myself. It’s not that, so don’t anyone think that’s it, okay?

…

Zooey wrote:

That’s all true, and yet…they’ve been consistently bad. They’ve had camp, pre-season, and 7 games, and they aren’t even sputtering to life like a cold engine.

All fair and true, but remember that one of the problems with the defense last year early on was that under the new CBA, installs take longer. Less practice time. Combine that with having a lot of new and young players and the thing gets compounded.

I think it’s a combination of things. These are just my best guesses/hunches. —>

Versus last year, I think a young and inexperienced line will be up and down and capable of being worse at times than a veteran line with injured starters. I also think compensating for that line means cutting back on things the offense can do. In terms of the numbers, if I recall, the sack rate this year is lower but the hit rate is higher.

I also think Foles has flaws, but even with that, is capable of playing well. He can be a good qb. But getting pounded on makes him worse, for obvious reasons.

Why did most of the receivers drop off? Well they’re not great receivers in the first place but they have played better, all of them (except Tavon who clearly improved). I think Quick is still reeling from the injury mentally and isn’t back to what he was last year before being injured. Plus Foles and Quick don’t have much chemistry yet. In general this reminds me of 2011, where the issue was being comfortable in the new offense. Players making mistakes because they’re pressing and not confident.

Cignetti? First time coordinator. Schott was a coordinator since 2006—he was capable of fixing things overnight sometimes (example: in 2012 they didn’t like the redzone offense so changed it at the bye, and from then on the redzone offense stayed fixed). I wonder if it’s true that Cigz does the passing game and Boras the running game.

But either way, to me it;s everything at once. Like the defense for the first bunch of games last year. Just not in sync yet.

I don’t think Foles became worse than 2014, I think he’s in a worse situation than 2014. But then just like the defense last year, the situation can get better.

InvaderRam wrote:

new coordinator (who happens to be a rookie coordinator)
new system
quality of receivers
green oline

plus as you say, new qb.

I am not sure the receivers are so bad, though. Cook, Kendricks, Britt, and Quick all played better last year. That means it’s at least in them to play at least that well this year. There’s something going on with chemistry, being in sync, and so on. Same thing happened last year at first with the defense.

Rams hope history doesn’t repeat itself vs. Vikings

Jim Thomas

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/rams-hope-history-doesn-t-repeat-itself-vs-vikings/article_4f61ae15-a26b-5475-ba1d-8bbf64f0230a.html

As much as the Rams would like to burn the game from their memory, it can’t be avoided. Not this week.

In preparation for Sunday’s contest at Minnesota, in the film room they must relive last year’s 34-6 season-opening humiliation to the Vikings.

“I’d like to forget it,” defensive end Williams Hayes said.

The Rams veteran was coming off multiple offseason surgeries at the time, and had missed additional time in camp and the preseason because of a chest injury.

Looking at that game again this week, Hayes says it might be his worst performance since he arrived in St. Louis in 2012.

“I put a bad product on the field,” he said.

Small consolation, but he had plenty of company that day among his teammates. In fact, it would be difficult to imagine a worse start to what was a season of great expectations.

The storyline was that the third year would be the charm for the Jeff Fisher-Les Snead regime.

Instead, the embarrassing defeat foreshadowed another lost season of Rams football in St. Louis. Starting with that Minnesota game, the team stumbled to a 1-4 start and finished 6-10.

The margin of defeat that day matched the worst for a home season opener in franchise history. And you had to go all the way back to 1937, the inaugural year for the Rams in the NFL, to find that game — a 28-0 loss by the Cleveland Rams to Detroit.

“This is the exact opposite of our expectations. Period, point blank,” offensive lineman Rodger Saffold said after last year’s game.

“Nobody saw this coming,” defensive tackle Michael Brockers said after that contest. “It was like a snowball going downfield. It just kept rolling on …”

The Rams committed 13 penalties for 121 yards that day. Minnesota’s Cordarrelle Patterson, a wide receiver by trade, ran for 102 yards on just three carries, scoring on a 67-yard run on a play in which he lined up in the backfield.

By the start of the third quarter, the Rams were down to Austin Davis at quarterback. He had spent much of that preseason as the team’s fourth-string quarterback. Just 15 days after losing starter Sam Bradford to a season-ending knee injury, the Rams lost Bradford’s replacement — Shaun Hill — to a thigh injury against the Vikings.

So there was chaos at the QB position; Davis hadn’t thrown much to the Rams’ starting wide receivers when he entered the game.

“It was one of those things that happens,” Fisher said. “But I’d like to think we’re a little bit better in all three areas now.”

By the end of that game, it was hard to tell which was louder — the boos from the few Rams fans still in attendance or the chants of “Let’s go Vikings!” by Minnesota fans in the dome.

“It kinda spiraled out of control,” tight end Lance Kendricks said this week. “I remember we just got physically outplayed.”

About the only thing the Rams did well that day was keep the lid on the Vikings’ star running back — Adrian Peterson. He rushed for 75 yards but averaged only 3.6 yards per carry.

“After that game, I was so disappointed,” Peterson told St. Louis reporters Wednesday on a conference call. “Even though we got the ‘W,’ I was disappointed in how I allowed those guys to get free hits and stuff on me. They had me out of character.”

Because of that, Peterson said he is looking forward to playing the Rams this Sunday, in Minneapolis.

If there’s more motivation from Peterson, the same can be said for the Rams. They want to show themselves and the Vikings that they’re not the same team that was dominated last year.

“Yeah, definitely,” Kendricks said. “We took a beating that week. I think it’s important for us come out strong this week, and start fast. Because we’ve yet to start fast this year.”

Hayes said: “It’s a little bit more personal for me this week because the more I look at (that film), the more embarrassed I’m getting. So I’m just gonna go out there and try to put some good stuff on film this week.”

Twenty-two games have passed since then, but the teams still can learn from last year’s contest. They each have new starting quarterbacks. Nick Foles has replaced Bradford in St. Louis and Teddy Bridgewater has replaced Matt Cassel, who was last year’s opening-day starter for the Vikings.

There are new starters sprinkled throughout both lineups. But many familiar faces remain, and for the most part the coaching staffs and the systems are the same on offense and defense.

Fisher likened it to playing a division team the second time around in a season.

“It’s recent,” he said. “They game-planned up. We game-planned them. They made more plays than we did, so we gave up some big plays. We know Norv (Turner) very well. He’s an outstanding coordinator and he’ll have ’em ready to play.”

Turner, a former NFL head coach with Washington, Oakland, and San Diego, is Minnesota’s offensive coordinator.

If the Rams have learned anything from that game, it’s that they have to do more than just contain Peterson to win. And they can’t make the kind of mistakes they made last year, particularly the penalties, and expect to win.

“They’ve got a solid defense,” Kendricks said. “They’re very disciplined and sound in what they do.

“I think we’re such a different team now that I definitely think we’ll play up to our potential this week, especially being on a roll with two (victories) back-to-back. It’d be nice to kinda get out there and get after ‘em, and see if we can pull out a win on the road.”

Wired: McDonald vs 49ers (00:05:55)

Listen to all the big hits from safety T. J. McDoandl in the Rams win over the 49ers on this weeks Wired

http://www.stlouisrams.com/videos/index.html

nittany ram wrote:

Sounds like most of them know as little about the Rams as we do about the Vikings.

That’s an old theme, isn’t it?

Remember the flame war barrage on the old blue board in 99 in the week before the Vikes playoff game?

We got lines like “gimmick offenses don’t work” and “you don’t have the talent to play us” and “you haven’t played anybody.”

I still have an old VHS of that game. Near the end in the crowd a Rams fan is proudly holding up a sign that says “we STILL haven’t played anyone.”

..

from off the net

—

RustyRay

Just watch Foles on 3rd downs and how many throws go outside the numbers. He is missing things in the middle of the field a ton.

He has struggled due to pressure and his 1st instinct is to always throw outside…he has a heck of a time keeping his eyes down the middle of the field.

People love to hammer on the Rams WR’s and TE’s….but in reality they are getting open more then people think…its a mixture of Foles failures to see them and of the Rams being able to pass block well enough for the deeper routes to come into play.

from off the net

—

Hazlet Hacksaw

Shotty loved the quick slants – they are gone from this offense.

The Rams staple now is to attack the short outside on third downs less than 10 yds. The results have been very poor. You can almost predict the 5-6 yd out route on 3rd down when they need 8 yds. Everything is to the sidelines away from the QB – the hardest throws – and usually short of the first down marker. I’m sure Cignetti has his reasons but the results are lacking so far. 1/19 or whatever it was the last two games on 3rd down wont cut it against the better teams they will face in the next few weeks.

We as fans will likely never know – all we do know is what they are doing so far has failed miserably on third down. For whatever reason, the middle of the field has not been friendly to the Rams receivers this year.

It has to be a bad combination of routes, receivers, protection and qb. There I figured it out. Seriously I’m going to look at the all 22 for third down Sunday and see.

I do like the fact that they went deep three times despite the lack of success.