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znModeratorEnjoy thanksgiving everyone.
Have pie.

znModeratorCase Keenum will start against Bengals if he clears concussion protocol
By Nick WagonerEARTH CITY, Mo. — St. Louis Rams quarterback Case Keenum did not participate in the team’s light practice Tuesday afternoon because of the concussion he suffered last week against the Baltimore Ravens.
But coach Jeff Fisher offered hope that Keenum could be ready to participate in some capacity as soon as Wednesday.
“Yeah, he was in the building … looked at a lot of tape,” Fisher said. “[He] has not been cleared for any activity for [Tuesday], but we’re hopeful that [Wednesday] he’ll be ready to do some things outside. So, he’s feeling pretty good actually.”
Keenum, of course, made his first start for the Rams on Sunday and finished the game despite getting a concussion when he hit his head on the ground on the team’s final possession. The play left more questions than answers about how the Rams and the league handled it after Keenum stayed in the game following the injury.
The NFL, which is investigating the series of events that led to Keenum staying in the game, held a conference call with doctors and trainers from all 32 teams Tuesday night to discuss possible ways to improve the system of in-game concussion evaluations.
“It’s an important issue,” Fisher said. “I mean, it’s really a serious issue and the league’s taking it very serious and you can understand why. So, the league’s gathering information and we’re looking at the system under which we operate right now to see if there’s anything we can do to where we avoid that kind of situation that happened to Case. So, there will be a conference call and the league’s going to gather the information and they’ll adjust the features ever so slightly, I guess, on game day.”
Asked if he had any suggestions for changes he’d like to see made to the system, Fisher declined.
“As far as recommendations and suggestions as to how something like this doesn’t happen again, I can’t go there because there’s too many entities right now,” Fisher said. “They’re discussing their opinions of exactly what happened.”
In the meantime, Keenum continues to go through the normal concussion protocol. Fisher reiterated that Keenum would start against Cincinnati this week so long as he passes the proper tests, something Keenum is apparently on track to do.
“No setbacks,” Fisher said. “No, he was fine. He just hasn’t been cleared for any physical activity. He’s in the protocol and that’s typically the way things work on Tuesdays. So, he’ll go through some more testing and then we’re hopeful that he’ll be released for activity tomorrow.”
znModeratorDon’t watch,
or you’ll be sorry.I watch em all.

Though, I must frankly confess, in all honesty, I do enjoy it more when they win.
znModeratorSlight chance of a win, but only if Quinn
is a hundred percent. They would have
to win it on Defense, and without Quinn
the D aint scary enough.I’m assuming Quinn is not going to be
a hundred percent the rest of the year,
so, thus, consequently:Rams 5
Bengals 20w
vDid you watch the last game? Just curious.
Oh and btw, you’re right, cranberry/walnut bread toast is great.
.
znModerator@RapSheet: #Rams WR Stedman Bailey is out of surgery after several hours of extensive work. He’ll be in the ICU for 3-5 days and doctors are hopeful.
——————.
FISHER
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/fisher-cignetti-1125-transcripts/
“I informed the team. I told his teammates as much as I knew, and things have changed ever so slightly since our meeting. I can report now that Sted is in Intensive Care Unit. He had extensive surgery. Surgery probably took four to six hours, from what my understanding is. He’s in stable condition right now. We’re just waiting to get some more information on the specifics of the injury. There’s a lot out there. There’s a lot of rumors that there were two or three shots and an injury to the hip. I don’t have specifics right now, but what I can tell you is that he’s in stable condition. He’ll be in ICU for a number of days. It’s really unlikely, highly unlikely, that he returns to play this year.”
Rams huddled in prayer for WR Stedman Bailey before today's practice… pic.twitter.com/hoom0aOiYl
— Nick Wagoner (@nwagoner) November 25, 2015
November 25, 2015 at 9:05 pm in reply to: 1999 St. Louis Rams Training Camp vid with John Clayton #34711
znModerator…as I recall there were zero OLine injuries
in 99.Nutten was out a couple of games. Which is of course negligible.
BTW how many people know that everyone routinely misspells “Nutten”?
He kept it germanized, with the umlaut. It’s actually “Nütten.”
Also, btw, in 99 Nutten was a 5 year vet who had played in Canada and Amsterdam before the Rams signed him.
.
znModerator@RapSheet: #Rams WR Stedman Bailey is out of surgery after several hours of extensive work. He’ll be in the ICU for 3-5 days and doctors are hopeful.
——————.
FISHER
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/fisher-cignetti-1125-transcripts/
“I informed the team. I told his teammates as much as I knew, and things have changed ever so slightly since our meeting. I can report now that Sted is in Intensive Care Unit. He had extensive surgery. Surgery probably took four to six hours, from what my understanding is. He’s in stable condition right now. We’re just waiting to get some more information on the specifics of the injury. There’s a lot out there. There’s a lot of rumors that there were two or three shots and an injury to the hip. I don’t have specifics right now, but what I can tell you is that he’s in stable condition. He’ll be in ICU for a number of days. It’s really unlikely, highly unlikely, that he returns to play this year.”
November 25, 2015 at 6:04 pm in reply to: Wagoner: Blame for Rams' abysmal offense starts with Fisher #34703
znModeratorRams trying ‘different things’ to get Todd Gurley back on track
Nick Wagoner
EARTH CITY, Mo. — After the most prolific four-start beginning to a career by a running back in NFL history, the St. Louis Rams’ Todd Gurley was bound to have at least a minor drop-off in production.
Logic dictated that Gurley would see more defenses keyed on stopping him and daring the Rams’ anemic passing attack to beat them. And sure enough, Gurley’s output over the past three games has paled in comparison to his first four starts.
Which has put the onus on Rams coach Jeff Fisher and his staff to find a way to get Gurley and, by extension, the Rams offense, going.
“We have to run the football better,” Fisher said. “We’re working on that right now, as we speak. We have to do some different things in the run game. Todd’s longest carry [Sunday] was 7 yards and the longest last week was 9, so we have to do a better job up front.”
In Gurley’s first four starts, he had three touchdowns on 88 carries for 566 yards, an average of 6.43 yards per attempt. In the past three weeks, he has the same number of touchdowns on 61 carries for 200 yards, an average of just 3.28 yards per attempt.
When Fisher referred to doing a better job up front, he also mentioned the outbreak of injuries that have made Gurley’s job more difficult. The offensive line has been plagued with injuries, losing starting guards Rodger Saffold and Jamon Brown for the season. Right tackle Rob Havenstein is dealing with a calf issue and has missed two of the past three games. And rookie tackles Andrew Donnal and Darrell Williams have missed chunks of time.
Todd Gurley
In Todd Gurley’s first four starts he averaged 6.43 yards per carry. In the past three weeks he has averaged 3.28 yards per carry.
Even before all of those issues, the line wasn’t consistently creating big holes for Gurley to run through. In Gurley’s first four starts he had 15 runs of 10 yards or more and seven carries of 20-plus yards. In the past three games, Gurley has three runs of 10 yards or more and none of 20 or more.When it comes to yards before contact, a good measure of how much space a line is creating in the run game, Gurley was getting 3.98 yards per carry in his first four starts. Since, he’s averaging 1.8 yards before contact.
By Gurley’s own admission, the line dancing in front of him has made things more difficult, a difference he sees when he watches the film.
“ still running hard, but like I said, it’s kind of a tough adjustment,” Gurley said. “You’ve got four guys down. So, that’s always going to be a tough adjustment, new guys coming in. At the end of the day, we’ve still got to play hard and execute and make the calls and do everything else up front.”
Like a quarterback adjusting to new receivers, Gurley says there’s a period of adjustment where a running back has to get used to the players blocking for him.
“Yeah, definitely, one lineman might react a lot different or his reaction time might not be as quick or as fast as the one before,” Gurley said. “But like I said, everybody’s been doing a great job preparing and putting in the work throughout the week. We’ve just got to come to the game with that.”
Against Baltimore last week, Gurley had his worst outing since becoming a starter, rushing for 66 yards on 25 carries, an average of 2.64 yards per attempt. He also coughed up a fumble, though that came on a run like many others where he was hit almost as soon as he received the ball. With defenders on him so fast, Gurley’s yards after contact has also dropped from 2.45 per rush in his first four starts to 1.48 over the past three.
For what it’s worth, Gurley said Tuesday that his surgically repaired knee hasn’t given him any problems, and that while he generally feels the aches and pains on Sunday, he begins feeling better by Monday. Eight games into his career, Gurley’s dip in production doesn’t seem to be a function of a rookie wall so much as a lack of help.
“Todd is a good runner,” Fisher said. “This is not Todd’s issue right now. This is an offensive issue.”
There’s little doubt the Rams have an offensive issue — it’s one that’s existed for most of the year — but there also doesn’t seem to be any magic pill to fix that problem.
“Coaches have been doing a great job all year, but they implemented some new runs and we’ll try them out this week and see how they go,” Gurley said.
It remains to be seen what fixes to the run game the Rams are making (they’re not offering details at the moment), but there’s little doubt they have to do something, anything to get their best offensive player back on track.
znModeratorNFL Network @nflnetwork
UPDATE Per @RapSheet: Stedman Bailey still in extensive surgery as doctors try to help him recover. It was slated to be done about 3 hrs ago
znModeratorBump, trying to get more.
znModeratorPerhaps it would make sense if the Rams were trending upward, but that’s not the case since it looks like they need a QB and still have other personnel issues on offense.
They also treated this season as “build for the future.” The personnel issues you are talking about including having a predominantly young and inexperienced line. I wouldn’t call that “personnel issues” though, that falls more under “development.”
That in fact is the case with the entire offense. They had an offense, but in 2014 the qb and the OL got taken out. So they started over with that new young OL, a new qb, a new first time coordinator, and an injured RB taken high in the first round. In that situation, it makes perfect sense to me that any judgements of the season by ownership would see this as starting over and building for the future.
The unpredictable part of this was Foles melting down from the GB game on.
And given that it is a start-over, I can see how management would put the record in context. Under those conditions continuity would be a strong consideration.
I don’t know what will happen, but if there IS an extension it does have a logic behind it.
…
znModeratorReynolds: “Case said, I need a minute, and then he was all right.”
Jim Thomas
Rams offensive lineman Garrett Reynolds makes it a point to help teammates during times of need. Sometimes it’s helping up a running back who went down in a pile.
Or aiding a wide receiver who got roughed up on a route downfield (as was the case with Bradley Marquez against Baltimore).
Or a quarterback who just got concussed. Reynolds, a seventh-year pro in his first season with the Rams, was first on the scene when quarterback Case Keenum went down late in the fourth quarter of Sunday’s 16-13 loss to the Ravens.
“He put his hand out,” Reynolds said. “And just like any other time, any time your buddy puts his hand out, you try to (help). I thought he was just gonna hop up.”
But as Reynolds started to pull up Keenum from the turf at M&T Bank Stadium, the quarterback stayed down.
“I knew something was a little off,” Reynolds said. “He said, ‘I need a minute,’ and then he was all right.
“Once he got back in the huddle, he called the play crisp as ever, just like always. He just seemed to be regular old Case.”
Reynolds said it’s commonplace over the course of the game and a season for players to take a shot in some fashion and need a second to regroup, be it taking a shot to the leg, or the shoulder, getting the wind knocked out, or as in the case of Keenum having your head hit the turf.
“We’re so used to saying: ‘You good? Oh yeah. Let’s go,’” Reynolds said.
If Keenum had been struggling making the plays calls, or otherwise showed signs of distress in the huddle, Reynolds said, “We would’ve sent him out. If you’re that messed up, somebody knows. But there’s been times in football, like with Case where you might need a second (to regroup).
“Sometimes you get hit and it hurts. That’s on any part of your body. You say, ‘hey give me a second’ and you’re all right.”
Earlier in the game, Reynolds came to the rescue when Marquez took a late hit from Baltimore linebacker C.J. Mosley, but was penalized for unnecessary roughness for shoving Mosley off of Marquez.
“It’s football,” Reynolds said. “Stuff like that’s gonna happen. But I’ve gotta be smarter than that for the team. You see a buddy and you want to take care of him.”
Mosley also was flagged for roughness, and earlier on the same play, wide receiver Kenny Britt was flagged for an illegal block above the waist. So because of offsetting penalties, a 31-yard gain by Marquez to the Baltimore 18 was nullified, effectively killing a potential Rams scoring drive.
But back to Keenum. Reynolds’ thoughts aside, the slow-motion television replays of Keenum’s head hitting the turf, Keenum holding his head from behind his helmet, and then being slow to initially get up, set off a firestorm of sorts in NFL circles.
Rams coach Jeff Fisher said Monday he was unaware of the concussion until after Sunday’s game and even after Fisher met with the media postgame. Some observers found that hard to believe.
On Tuesday, Keenum was held out of practice as he works his way through the league-mandated concussion protocol of tests and examinations. Nick Foles got the work with the starting offense.
“Case was in the building,” Fisher said. “He met, looked at a lot of tape. Has not been cleared for any activity (Tuesday), but we’re hopeful (Wednesday) that he’ll be ready to do some things outside. He’s feeling pretty good actually.”
Fisher said Keenum has not experienced any setbacks.
“He’s fine,” Fisher said. “He just hasn’t been cleared for physical activity. He’s in the protocol, and that’s typically the way things work on Tuesday.”
In other words, no practice.
“So he’ll go through some more testing (Wednesday) and we’re hopeful that he’ll be released for activity tomorrow,” Fisher said.
Since Keenum did not practice Tuesday, per Rams policy he was not made available to the media. Fisher re-iterated that if Keenum does not pass the concussion protocol, Foles would start Sunday in Cincinnati. And if that’s the case, as expected, Fisher said rookie Sean Mannion would be elevated to the No. 2 spot.
Because of the Keenum situation, a league-organized conference call took place early Tuesday evening to review concussion protocol with team doctors and head athletic trainers of all 32 teams.
The call was led by Dr. Hunt Batjer, co-chair of the NFL head, neck and spine committee, as well as NFL chief medical advisor Dr. Betsy Nabel, and Dr. Thom Mayer of the NFL Players Association. Also taking part was Dr. Robert Heyer, president of the NFL Physicians Society.
“It’s an important issue,” said Fisher, now knee-deep in preparation for the Bengals. “It’s really a serious issue and the league’s taking it very seriously, and you can understand why.
“The league’s gathering information, we’re looking at the system under which we’re operating right now to see if there’s anything we can do to where we avoid that kind of situation that happened to Case.”
The solution seems simple: give the independent press box spotter more authority to stop the game for a medical timeout. And instruct the spotter to always err on the side of caution.
When asked if there were any suggestions he had to adjust game day concussion protocol, Fisher said, “I can’t go there. There’s too many entities right now that are discussing their opinions and exactly what happened.”
znModeratorIf you watch the video it’s easy to see that Keenum was knocked silly. He couldn’t even get up on his own. Although they don’t show it in the video I think he staggered a bit even after he was on his feet. I don’t know how this got missed. Many people are at fault for allowing Keenum to continue to play but certainly Fisher bears some responsibility.
This is all simple. They saw a qb hit. We on tv can see more than the sideline but coaches can’t see it all. Foles knew he went down so he warms up. The trainer goes out and Keenum says he’s fine. The league official in the booth did apparently see his head hit but he sees the Rams trainer is out there and thinks it’s covered.
IMO? There’s no story here. I don’t think anyone with the Rams “bears some responsibility.” I think this is a non-story that has gotten kind of quasi-sensationalized by the tv view. The tv view includes close-ups and is not related in the least to what the sideline sees.
znModeratorJim Thomas @jthom1 ·
Team source confirms that Bailey has been shot. Team thinks he’s OK, but again, team is still collecting info.=====
Rams receiver Stedman Bailey was shot in the head Tuesday, FS1 NFL Insider Mike Garafolo confirmed through a team source. Garafolo reported the team would have an official statement on the incident later in the evening.
Garafolo also reported that Bailey is conscious, though he will need extensive surgery.While much of the details surrounding the shooting and Bailey’s injury remain unknown, multiple reports indicated Bailey was shot in South Florida (he is from Miami), and that he was also shot in the hip.The Houston Chronicle’s Aaron Wilson reported that the surgery is scheduled for Wednesday.
znModeratorMichael Silver @MikeSilver
A Rams source confirmed to me that Stedman Bailey was involved in shooting incident & suffered a head wound. Not considered life-threatening
Source said Bailey will undergo surgery in the morning. Again, head wound not believed to be life-threatening. Rams gathering more info
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
#Rams WR Stedman Bailey was shot twice in the head while sitting in a car with 2 young relatives & his cousin. He is stable in a Miami ICU
Stedman Bailey will have surgery tomorrow. The driver was shot many times, shielding the kids from bullets. His wounds are life threatening
znModeratorSource: Stedman Bailey has been shot
Mike Florio
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/25/source-stedman-bailey-has-been-shot/
Rams receiver Stedman Bailey was shot Tuesday evening in Miami. A league source with knowledge of the situation has confirmed to PFT that rampant rumors of the incident are indeed true.
Per the source, a statement from the Rams is expected within the next hour or so. The source was unable to confirm at this point any specific details regarding Bailey’s condition.
Bailey played college football at West Virginia. He was a third-round pick of the Rams in 2013.
UPDATE 12:28 a.m. ET: Mike Silver of NFL.com reports that Bailey suffered a head wound that is not considered to be life threatening. Per Silver, Bailey is scheduled to undergo surgery in the morning.
znModeratorJim Thomas @jthom1
Checking on Twitter rumors that Rams wide receiver Stedman Bailey has been shot.Matt Miller @nfldraftscout
I’ve heard the Stedman Bailey rumors and I’m waiting to hear back from Rams. May be tough to get this late at night. Hoping they’re false.ATL Sports Scoop @atlsportsscoop
Prayers up to Rams WR Stedman Bailey, reports say he was shot in the head tonight. Very tragic situationChris Long @JOEL9ONE
Keep our brother @iamSB3 in your thoughts, prayers tonight. I don’t wanna believe it….
znModeratorI just find it very hard to believe that Fisher was so unaware of Keenum’s concussion–but who knows.
(not personal but) I find it hard to believe people actually think that.
What is there to gain from ignoring a concussion to the qb in the final minute of a game?
This particular accusation has me baffled. Think about what that is saying. I wouldn’t accuse a coach I personally hated with all my heart of that.
znModeratorGreg Robinson is a beast but he’s struggling at LT.
IMO?
GR will work out fine at LOT in spite of struggling this year.
znModeratorThis is one of the strangest periods of recent Rams history.
znModeratorCase Keenum, offensive line don’t offer much in latest loss
Nick Wagoner
BALTIMORE — Looking back at three things to watch in the St. Louis Rams’ 16-13 loss to the Baltimore Ravens on Sunday:
1. Making a Case: Case Keenum made his first start at quarterback for the Rams, who hoped that he could provide a spark for an offense in need of one. He didn’t. Keenum struggled his way to 12-of-26 for 136 yards with a touchdown and no interceptions. He also was charged with three fumbles, including two that were lost. One of those was changed from being credited to running back Todd Gurley to Keenum on Sunday night.
Nobody expected Keenum to be the savior for the offense but the Rams believed his mobility could lead to more production. He did have a few plays in which he ran around and made some things happen but he also had some bad moments such as a brutal under throw to an open Kenny Britt on a deep ball. True to his word, Rams coach Jeff Fisher didn’t have a short leash on Keenum and said he didn’t consider taking Keenum out of the game. Perhaps he should have, though, as Keenum was evaluated for a concussion after the game.
2. Keeping it close: As has often been the case this season, the Rams defense did enough to keep it close despite a nearly six-minute difference in time of possession. In close games, there are a few things that always make the difference: things like turnovers, penalties and kickers. Well, all three played a role in the latest Rams’ loss.
St. Louis had four turnovers, all fumbles, while the Ravens actually had four more penalties for 102 more yards. Those two didn’t quite even each other out but it was close. Tipping the scales in Baltimore’s favor? The kicking game.
Rams kicker Greg Zuerlein had an extra point blocked and missed a late 52-yard field goal wide to the right. Baltimore’s Justin Tucker missed a 51-yard field goal of his own but rebounded nicely with the game-winning 47-yard kick as time expired. It’s the second road game in a row in which the Rams lost on a walk-off field goal.
3. What’s my line?: The Rams offensive line started the day with two rookies on the right side, a common occurrence this season except these were two different rookies. Fourth-round pick Andrew Donnal started at tackle with Cody Wichmann at guard. Even that arrangement didn’t last long as Donnal left with a knee injury that Fisher said “didn’t look good.”
After that, the Rams moved veteran Garrett Reynolds from left guard to right tackle, Wichmann to left guard and installed Demetrius Rhaney at right guard. None of it mattered much as the Rams couldn’t get much push in the run game (29 carries for 82 yards) and though they only allowed one sack, Keenum was under pressure for most of the day.
znModeratorI wonder if there is variation based on blocking schemes? For example, is reach zone blocking associated with a higher injury rate than power blocking?
They weren’t a zone team in the first half of 2012 when they had 8 different players at OC, LOG, and LOT in the first 8 games (Wells, Turner, Watkins, Ojinakka, Saffold, Hunter, Barksdale, and Smith).
So far this OL has also had 8 different players at LOG, ROG, and ROT (Saffold, Brown, Havenstein, Reynolds, Williams, Donnal, Wichman, and Rhaney).
Same numbers so far, but completely different types of offenses. Very little if any zone in 2012.
In 2007 they started 12 different linemen total. (Pace, Barron, Setterstrom, McCollum, Romberg, Milford Brown, Terrel, Steussie, Lecky, Goldberg, Gorin, and Petitti.) That’s not counting in-game injury subs. That included replacements at all 5 positions. The only guy who played the entire season was Barron, and he switched from right to left OT. They started 5 different ROTs that year.
.
znModeratorNFL & NFLPA will conduct mandatory conference call Tues w all 32 head athletic trainers to discuss concussion protocol after Keenum incident
Interesting.
.
znModeratorBy our count, Brady took an average of 1.86 seconds from snap-to-throw on his 40 pass attempts, which was his second-lowest mark of the season and lowest since Week 1 against the Steelers when he took an average of 1.85 seconds.
It’s worth noting this number could have been even lower if it weren’t for a completion to Brandon LaFell in the first half that took 4.13 seconds from snap-to-release.
“I’d say we learned a lot last week in the second half of the game about kind of where we’re at as an offense and things we’re going to need to continue to improve on,” Brady said Wednesday. “And like I said, you don’t plan for certain scenarios and all of a sudden they happen. You’ve got to figure out what to do when you’re under fire, and that’s part of the challenging thing about football. I’m glad we came out of it ahead.”
Of Brady’s 40 pass attempts, 24 of them (60 percent) took less than two seconds from snap-to-throw. On those plays, Brady was 17-for-24. Furthermore, on 12 plays Brady took less than 1.5 seconds from snap-to-throw — an insane number.
A major reason for this was the increased number of quick screens to receivers. This could have been because of two reasons: the loss of running back Dion Lewis and the depleted offensive line.
With the offensive line still battling injuries heading into Sunday’s matchup against the Giants, Brady’s quick release will likely be key to the offensive once again.
—
http://suffolkvoice.net/2015/11/19/new-england-dealing-with-injuries/
The common reaction from the Patriots fan, when asked about the state of the offensive line is, “Well Brady gets rid of the ball so quickly, it won’t effect them.”
…
Of late that has changed.
Of course they are scoring quite often, it just is not coming as easily and it is a direct result of the injuries. Against the Redskins the offense was rolling until both Dion Lewis and Sebastian Vollmer went down. After that the playbook was essentially thrown out and they just wanted to get out of that game in one piece.
In this past Sunday’s thrilling victory over the Giants, the Patriots offense looked awkward and desperate at times. Forcing big plays down field to Brandon LaFell and Aaron Dobson. Again a direct result of the offensive line injuries and Julian Edelman going down.
znModeratorI should have pointed out that I was just interested in that they said Fisher was the one that really pushed for the trade. I was for the trade.
Yeah I know.
I’m not venting at anyone here.
znModeratorAnd before anyone gives Fisher an out by saying he hasn’t had a decent quarterback, sources said he was the one who pushed the Nick Foles trade to completion back in the spring. When he got back from a competition-committee meeting and learned the trade has stalled, he leaned on his staff to get it done.
And once missing there is this.
Foles was fine until he melted down.
I agree with Nittany, that is bad analysis.
And on top of it, it’s like this repeat of the 2007 nightmare, and I mean this one. The OL loses 10 players to injuries, and what do a lot of people do? Blame Bulger.
This is a young and inexperienced OL that got injured on top of it.
What happens? I see people complaining that they benched Foles for Keenum.
A: “Why aren’t you serving lunch on time.”
B: “The restaurant is on fire.”
A: “Well hire a decent cook for a change, jeeesh.”
znModeratorI dunno. I know the injuries to Q
and Long have hurt the D,
and the OLine has once again
been decimated, so maybe the
team would have come on, had
there not been injuries. Sigh.
Maybe.To me there’s no doubt. Had Foles not melted down and the OL not been so injury wracked, they would have been fine.
znModeratorRams lose another offensive lineman to injury
Jim Thomas
BALTIMORE • For the third time in two games, it looks like the Rams have lost a rookie offensive lineman to a season-ending injury.
Andrew Donnal, who started at right tackle in place of the injured Rob Havenstein, suffered a knee injury on a second-quarter passing play in Sunday’s 16-13 loss to Baltimore.
“We’ll know (Monday), but it’s the knee,” coach Jeff Fisher said. “I’ll just say it doesn’t look good, unfortunately for him. He was playing well.”
Donnal, a fourth-round pick from Iowa, was making his second NFL start, having started at left guard two weeks ago in Minnesota.
Last week, the Rams lost starting guard Jamon Brown (fractured leg) and backup tackle Darrell Williams (wrist) for the season, with both injuries occurring chasing Chicago linebacker Willie Young on an interception return.
Yet another rookie, sixth-round pick Cody Wichmann of Fresno State, made his first NFL start Sunday — at right guard.
When Donnal went out, the Rams switched starting left guard Garrett Reynolds to right tackle, moved Wichmann to left guard and brought Demetrius Rhaney off the bench to play right guard.
“It made it a little more difficult for us, just because we were throwing guys in there — guys that hadn’t practiced that position all week,” center Tim Barnes said. “We just had to do the best we could.
“We know that’s why the guys are on the team — because they can do it. It just made it a little more adverse for us. We just gotta make sure we finish.”
MASON BENCHED
Running back Tre Mason, the team’s leading rusher as a rookie last season, was benched for Sunday’s contest. Mason was a surprise member on the team’s pregame inactive list.
“He violated team rules (Saturday),” Fisher confirmed in his postgame news conference.
He did not elaborate. After leading the Rams in rushing with 765 yards as a rookie last season, Mason has become nearly a forgotten man this season. He had a chance to establish a foothold in the backfield early in the season, before rookie Todd Gurley was fully recovered from last season’s knee surgery while at the University of Georgia.
But Mason was slowed by a preseason hamstring injury, missed the opener entirely because of that injury, and hasn’t been a factor so far this season. He has 44 carries for 129 yards, averaging 2.9 yards a carry, getting much of that work in mop-up time against Chicago and San Francisco.
Minus Mason, the Rams went with just three running backs against the Ravens: Gurley, third-down specialist Benny Cunningham, and special teams core player Chase Reynolds.
QUINN SITS
For the second time in three games, the Rams were without two-time Pro Bowler Robert Quinn at defensive end. Quinn was ruled out on Saturday because of a hip injury, and thus was among the Rams’ pregame inactives for Baltimore.
“He’s dealing with a hip and a knee,” Fisher said. “The knee is OK. I think the knee’s good enough for him to play, but he’s dealing with some other things now.”
Eugene Sims started once again in Quinn’s place, and undrafted rookie Matt Longacre of Northwest Missouri State provided depth, playing in his second NFL game.
Other Rams inactives were QB Sean Mannion, S Christian Bryant, TE Justice Cunningham (finger), OT Isaiah Battle, and Havenstein (calf). There were unconfirmed reports that Battle also was benched for disciplinary reasons, but he may have been a pregame inactive anyway.
LONG PLAYS
After missing four games with a bone fracture following a knee-to-knee collision in Green Bay, defensive end Chris Long returned to action. William Hayes got the start at left defensive end, but Long was part of the defensive line rotation.
Long was frustrated with the loss and frustrated with his play.
“I just wish I could’ve helped us more,” Long said. “I felt OK, I just played like a (bleep). I can’t wait to hopefully play up to my standards, and next week help us win more.”
RAM-BLINGS
With Sunday’s loss, the Rams are 14-23-1 under Fisher in non-division games. They are 10-10-1 against NFC West foes.
• All 10 Baltimore games this season have been decided by eight points or less, the longest such streak to begin a season in NFL history.
• Gurley didn’t have his best game, but with 775 yards in just eight contests, he has the fourth-most rushing yards by a Rams rookie in franchise history.
• To combat Baltimore punter Sam Koch’s directional skills, the Rams deployed both Tavon Austin and Wes Welker as returners on most punts.
znModeratorWhat a horrible display by the Rams
Benjamin HochmanBALTIMORE • Hey, obnoxious Los Angeles Rams fans who take shots at St. Louis and vociferously advocate a move … be careful what you wish for.
We want the Rams to stay in St. Louis. We are an NFL city, unequivocally. Shoot, we’ll buy the Rams a couple stadiums to prove it.
But that means St. Louis will continue to embrace the suffering. Which it does. Annually. Because the St. Louis football team is an embarrassment.
The loss Sunday was disgusting.
This was a fulcrum game, and with the Bengals and Cardinals next on the schedule, the season is now on life support.
The unbalance is unfathomable — how can the defense be this good and the offense be this bad?
“We’re asking a lot out of our defense right now, and we’re not getting anything out of our offense,” said coach Jeff Fisher after the 4-6 Rams lost to the Ravens 16-13 in Sunday’s offensively offensive game featuring stupendously stupid penalties (and that was just by the winning team!).
What a waste of a stalwart defense (yet again). In that regard, the Rams are like their college counterparts in Columbia, Mo.
“It’s definitely hard putting all that pressure on the defense,” running back Todd Gurley said, “knowing that they’re doing (well) and fighting, and we keep putting them in those situations.”
Now, before we go any further with the Rams offense, here’s the obligatory line about the line: They’ve had many injuries and are frighteningly young and inexperienced.
OK.
But as I was told multiple times in the losing locker room — they’re still NFL players. And, hey, the Rams could’ve signed another veteran lineman at some point. And on Sunday, the Rams quarterback played uphill (or even “Shaun Hill”) most of the day. And the Rams were three for 13 on third downs. And to quote the manager in the movie “Major League” – Hey, Greg Robinson, don’t give me this ol’ (stuff)!
NFL analyst Brian Billick, who of course won a Super Bowl coaching the Ravens, tweeted in the first half: “I wonder how good Todd Gurley could be if the #Rams OL could actually block somebody?” (I must say, there is something weird about a tough-nosed ball coach going out of his way to put a hashtag in a tweet.)
The reality is — Gurley wasn’t that good overall. He’ll be fine, he’ll be fine. Maybe it was just the offensive line. Maybe it was the run-stuffing Ravens. Maybe it was the less-talked-about Sports Illustrated regional cover jinx. But Gurley fumbled the football, averaged 2.6 yards a carry and, for the first time, was part of the reason the Rams lost — as opposed to when the Rams have lost in spite of his successful play.
Sure enough, the man who forced the fourth-quarter fumble was from the St. Louis area. Brandon Williams plays nose tackle for the Ravens, and he looks like he ate Festus. After the two-win Ravens held the Rams to 82 ground yards, Williams said: “I take it personally every time I step on the field to stop the run. … We respect (Gurley) as a back, but we were ready for him.”
The Rams’ offense looks hopeless. Nick Foles was a lemon. Case Keenum is more mobile and can make some plays, but he clearly wasn’t in command. It’s mid-November, and the offense is somehow regressing, which, come to think of it, is an amazing accomplishment for a unit that scored six points at home against Pittsburgh.
Lance Kendricks, who caught Keenum’s lone touchdown pass, was asked if he was surprised the offense is taking this long to get it together.
“I think we all are,” he said. “I don’t know if to call it waiting, but we’re all just looking for an opening looking for somebody to make a play. We need to make it happen ourselves, we can’t really point fingers.”
It’s all so depressing.
James Laurinaitis, the proud linebacker, stood at his locker and tried to sell us on his mindset: it doesn’t matter how few points your offense scores, the defense must allow fewer points.
It’s a noble mentality.
But at some point, to hold a team to 16 points … on the road … even though your team turned the ball over four times … is impressive, regardless of the game’s outcome.
“This one might be one of the hardest over the last seven (years), maybe the hardest,” Laurinaitis said. “Just the fashion of it, the fact that it was a real pivotal game in the season from an overall outlook, a chance to get back to .500 and make a push. Being 4-6 …”
He then took a long, pensive breath and said: “… you have zero room for error. You always take it week to week, but when you’re around seven years you kind of look at the overall picture, and this stings on multiple levels. This might be the hardest one to swallow.”
When it was over, Aaron Donald wore a hoodie over his head.
He walked toward the locker room door, and all one could think is – what a waste. This specimen is special. He doesn’t tackle; he assaults. A week before, the defensive tackle accumulated five quarterback pressures in, according to Pro Football Focus, his best graded game of the season. And then on Sunday, he tallied a sack and a team-high 10 total tackles, including a play in the first quarter, when he pulverized Justin Forsett to the ground, breaking the running back’s arm.
Donald talked about the defense and disappointment in the locker room.
It’s got to be such a tough feeling, I said.
“Yeah, it suck.”
znModeratorAnother bitter Rams loss puts season on brink
Jim ThomasBALTIMORE • In a rapidly crumbling season, the Rams couldn’t move the football with any consistency, couldn’t hold on to the football and couldn’t hold a late 10-point lead.
The result was another numbing defeat, a 16-13 loss to a 2-7 Baltimore team on a game-ending 47-yard field goal by Justin Tucker.
For the second time in three games, the Rams have lost on a last-play field goal. Sandwiched between a 21-18 overtime loss to Minnesota two weeks ago and Sunday’s bitter setback was that 37-13 humiliation to Chicago.
So what was once a promising 4-3 season now sits at 4-6, casting doubt on the ability of coach Jeff Fisher, general manager Les Snead and executive vice president Kevin Demoff to get an organization that hasn’t had a winning season since 2003 over the hump.
Under normal circumstances, Sunday’s loss at M&T Bank Stadium is the kind of defeat that helps get coaches and GMs fired. But with Rams owner Stan Kroenke preoccupied with trying to move the team to Los Angeles, these are far from normal circumstances.
The organizational signals at the outset of the season were that only a disastrous 2015 campaign would lead to a coaching and/or GM change. After squandering a 10-point fourth-quarter lead Sunday, and with a road game next week against a formidable Cincinnati squad, this may rapidly become a matter of semantics. Namely, what constitutes a disaster?
“Well, that one was a hard one,” Fisher said after the Rams lost for the sixth time in seven games this season against a non-NFC West foe. “Probably one of the hardest I’ve been around since I’ve been here. It’s difficult when you lose that way, in a game that we somewhat controlled or dictated. Gave up the lead.
“But nonetheless, it’s hard to overcome four (turnovers) against a Super Bowl-winning quarterback.”
The Rams lost four fumbles on a chilly, windy afternoon at M&T Bank Stadium — leading to 13 Baltimore points.
The last fumble, on a sack of quarterback Case Keenum, gave the Ravens the opening they needed to pull out the victory. On third-and-5 from the St. Louis 36, Baltimore linebacker Courtney Upshaw got around Rams left tackle Greg Robinson, knocking the ball loose from Keenum.
Ravens defensive end Lawrence Guy recovered at the St. Louis 41 in a 13-13 game with 54 seconds left to play. The Ravens were out of timeouts but didn’t need any. After an incomplete pass, two runs by Javorius Allen produced 12 yards and a first down.
Quarterback Joe Flacco, the one-time Super Bowl MVP, finished out the game despite what was a season-ending knee injury. He spiked the ball with two seconds left and out came Tucker to kick the game-winner.
He had missed a 51-yarder with 1:13 to play, wide right. Rams counterpart Greg Zuerlein had missed a 52-yarder just 28 seconds earlier, wide right.
“I don’t think I hit it as well as I could have,” Zuerlein said. “I could feel my foot scrape the ground a little bit before I hit it. And then I should’ve picked a better target, really; little bit more inside (to adjust for the wind).”
Keenum apparently suffered a concussion two plays before his sack fumble, on a play where he was sacked by defensive tackle Timmy Jernigan. That sack didn’t count because of an offside penalty on Ravens linebacker Elvis Dumervil, but Keenum was clearly shaken up on the play — the second-to-last Rams offensive play of the game.
Fisher didn’t mention the concussion during his postgame news conference and sounded as if he were unaware of the injury.
Because when asked what else could be done to address the Rams’ offensive struggles, Fisher replied: “I’m gonna give Case a good week of practice. I expect him to do better than he did today. You can see he’s mobile, he can move around, he can do things.”
It was more than 25 minutes after the game that Rams officials said Keenum would not be available to reporters because he had been diagnosed with a concussion. The league had no comment Sunday night, but it’s standard policy for the league to look into all procedures when a player suffers an apparent concussion.
Keenum struggled for most of the day, completing 12 of 26 passes for 136 yards on a day when the Rams lost another offensive line starter — rookie right tackle Andrew Donnal — to what looks like a season-ending knee injury. More often than not, Keenum was under pressure as the Rams’ patchwork and inexperienced line struggled to protect him.
The Rams managed only 213 yards against the league’s 20th-rated defense. Running back Todd Gurley scored a touchdown for the fifth consecutive game but was held to 66 yards rushing on 25 carries. In addition, he lost one fumble and was part of another on a botched exchange with Keenum.
“At the end of the day, we put the ball on the ground four times,” Gurley said. “That’s never a good sign.”
(The other Rams fumble came on a muffed punt by Tavon Austin late in the second quarter — a turnover that set up the first of three Tucker field goals.)
“The fumble wasn’t Todd’s fault,” Fisher said. “That was defensive penetration; that was a problem up front. He hadn’t got his hand on the ball. It’s penetration that created the exchange problem, too, inside (on the botched exchange).”
Keenum tripped and lost his balance on the botched handoff.
“That’s what I said — it’s penetration,” Fisher said. “The (Baltimore) defensive line got penetration and pushed our guys back, and that’s where he tripped.”
Keenum’s 30-yard touchdown pass to wide-open tight end Lance Kendricks with 6:14 to go in the third quarter seemingly put the Rams in control. Even when Zuerlein’s extra point was blocked, the Rams led 13-3. The Baltimore offense, which lost running back Justin Forsett to a broken arm in the first quarter, was having trouble stringing together first downs.
But the Ravens started nibbling at that lead. A Gurley fumble on the second play of the fourth quarter resulted in Baltimore’s only TD of the day. Two Tucker field goals followed, and that 13-3 lead became a 16-13 defeat.
“It stings. It hurts,” safety T.J. McDonald said. “You never want to lose in this type of fashion. The fact that we did, it sucks.”
“It just really hurts the way we gave it up in the fourth quarter like that defensively,” linebacker James Laurinaitis said.
In seven seasons with the Rams, Laurinaitis has played for teams that are 34-71-1. So he’s endured plenty of losses, but this one may have stung the worst.
“Just the way it happened, and the fact that the whole game you feel like they can’t move the ball on you a lot,” Laurinaitis said. “And then the fourth quarter. … Yeah, this one hurts like none I can remember.”
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