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znModeratorthe tricky part is the part you called “unlucky”.
There’s people that would call those players
“bad signings”.Yeah I have had long, long disputes over the years with guys who just do not understand the effect of injuries.
When Wells and Long were playing okay in 2013, the Rams OL was ranked 13th by PFF.
It’s similar to people blaming all of 2007 on Bulger when that year the OL lost 10 guys to injury, including 4 for the season. There were people who could never get their heads around the fact that the OL injuries made a difference.
The issue with Long in 2013 was whether he had recovered enough from 2 arm injuries to play effectively. Well, he played fine that year…not like his old pro-bowl self, but effectively in a play action offense. The 2 arms did not foreshadow 2 knees. Anyone who thinks so, IMO, is just being superstitious.
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znModeratorCleveland hanging in there with the undefeated Broncos:
Denver 16
Cleve 14
with nine mins left.w
vCleveland is better than people are giving them credit for.
Still beatable though.
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znModeratorWell how do you guys view Snisher’s free-agent signings
so far?Cortland Finnegan, J. Cook, Jake Long, K Britt,
William Hayes…who else?w
vTrades AND FAs:
Good: Hayes, Barron
Okay to Good-ish: Langford, Fairley, Ayers, Chris Williams, Barksdale, Richardson, Turner, Britt, Clemens, Dunbar, Reynolds
Unlucky: Long, Wells, Finnegan
Bad: Cook, joseph.
I would say it was okay to good-ish if it weren’t for the bad luck with guys getting injured.
Cook was a bad signing though, no 2 ways about it.
Mostly, however, what they did was sign inexpensive role players and rotation types. Look at the “okay to good-ish” list.
The UDFA list is far better though.
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znModeratorI ended up with Washington/Jets. Jets have the #1 ranked defense. Washington #9. Jets are Ryan Fitzpatrick’s team du jour. Not compelling reasons to watch, but, the remote just drifted that way so I went with it.
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znModeratorfrom off the net
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fearsomefour
I see Foles create pressure sometimes by rolling to his right, always to his right, when he feels pressure that may not be there. In the Washington game there was a play where Robinson blocked his man down inside….there was no one to to Foles left, feeling pressure that wasn’t really there he rolled to his right….running past Saffold who had his back to Foles, Saffolds guy just peeled off and gave chase. He created pressure on that play.
It is a mix of things. The O line has certainly done their part to create pressure….not picking up simples twists or stunts (again), whiffing on blocks and not having a consistent running game. Foles does his part as well. Until the running game works well enough where play action has meaning some struggle with both will continue I think.
This is the knock of Foles. Slow through progressions and finding secondary guys. Leads to plenty of check downs too. In Philly throwing to RBs is a decent chunk of the offense. Here it is a lack of early down production. The running and play action is what Foles needs more than anything. If that doesn’t develop I think Foles will continue to be up and down. His last 13 games (after his “dream” season) he has 19 TDs and 15 INTs. Thats who he is without extra help from the O in my opinion.
Some follow-up.
==fearsomefour
For offenses to work, really work, there are so many components.
Everyone gets frustrated at a 5 yard pass on a 3 and 9. There are plenty of times where that is the only choice the QB because of blitzs/coverage. Because the team is in the third and long the D is more easily able to dictate where the pass is going. There are plenty of times the QB is forced to the check down. A guy like Rivers in San Diego is endlessly taking check downs this year, it has replaced their running game. Four to five yards a play is plenty of first downs, consistently executing run or pass is the key, obviously.
The big reduction in penalties I have taken as a sign of major progress for the O line and the team as a whole. I believe it is progressing. No team can be totally one sided in the NFL, the defenses are just too good. Teams lucky enough to have one of the few top tier QBs can get away with a lot more on O, we are not one of those teams.
The run game should do a lot to fix the pass blocking. I think we are in for a better second half (not that we are at the half way point yet).
The play action is the key for the passing game in this offense. The running game and time that that and play action buys. Running 35 short pass plays with a few long attempts mixed in is not what the O is going to be.
znModeratorOr…if that doesn’t get your heart racing…Bills/Bengals.
That could be good, though odds say the Bengals thrash em.
znModeratorfrom Teams target Vernon Davis, Jared Cook as tight end market heats up
JASON LA CANFORA
Several teams are exploring upgrading at tight end ahead of next month’s NFL trade deadline, with the 49ers and Rams fielding recent calls exploring the availability of Vernon Davis and Jared Cook, respectively, according to multiple league sources. Both clubs appear open to that possibility, and while no deals are imminent at this time, they could well come to pass prior to the Nov. 3 deadline.
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Cook’s contract makes a move for him trickier, but that has not stopped teams from at least making exploratory phone calls. He has two years, worth $7 million a season, left on his deal beyond 2015, but all of his guaranteed money is paid, so a team could part with him in the offseason without cap or cash ramifications. His production has been spotty, but he does have the capacity to make explosive plays. It may prove difficult for the Rams to get the kind of return they would hope given the expense involved in picking up the contract, but with tight end Lance Kendricks under contract in St. Louis through 2018, teams will continue to gauge Cook’s value ahead of the deadline.
Several NFL executives believe this could be a more fertile trade deadline than normal, with clubs now adjusted to the later deadline and with there being a growing delineation between the haves and the have nots, with half a dozen teams undefeated and a legion of clubs with one win or less.
October 18, 2015 at 10:26 am in reply to: Minnesota Vikings: Should the team move on from Cordarrelle Patterson? #32537znModeratorIt would double the “blame the OC”
threads, I betI see you post at the herd now and then. One fair warning: don’t talk like that there. They are strong there with the “blame the OC” force. Deviations are met with baffled questionings of your sanity and common sense (I exaggerate for fun).
znModeratorIf some damm team or other hadn’t taken out Roethlisberger, then the Cards/Steelers game would be “must see tv.” For me.
And I don’t want to see Patz v. Colts. I get enough of the Patz as it is.
October 18, 2015 at 9:32 am in reply to: A closer look at what could be next for Rams and Saffold #32532znModeratorSay, if Saffold was still on IR, his salary would be guaranteed, I think. That is maybe one reason why they decided to do his surgery now. So, he would be healed by March 3.
Looking at all that, it seems like it would be more disruptive to let him go. If they have abundant cap space (granted before signing anyone) then rather than bring in a free agent, why not stay with Saffold.
My only problem with that is, no one really knows why he wasn’t playing well. Maybe he really never got over his injury from the summer.
One thing about shoulder surgeries. It is possible that shoulder surgeries, or at least some kinds, make the shoulder stronger. That’s unlike other injuries, which make that part of the body (whatever it is) less effective (like a knee).
I have no preference in this…just thinking out loud.
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znModeratorEagles ‘ Sam Bradford faces the coach who drafted him
Steve Spagnuolo’s first year as head coach of the St. Louis Rams back in 2009 ended 1-15, which gave the Rams the first pick in the 2010 NFL Draft.
They used the pick to select quarterback Sam Bradford out of Oklahoma.
Six years later, Bradford, after two torn ACLs, is now the quarterback of the Eagles; and Spagnuolo, after a 2-14 season in 2011, has returned to the place that earned him the head coaching position, as the Giants’ defensive coordinator.
Monday night the two will go head to head for the first time in what is also a crucial game in the NFC East standings.
“I’m very grateful to Coach Spags, I really am, Bradford said, as he prepared for the Giants’ defense. “He gave me my chance in St. Louis. When we were together there in St. Louis we were very close. I learned a lot from him, especially about defense, my first two years in the league.”
EAGLES: Murray or Mathews?
Bradford had a good rookie season for the Rams and “Spags”, good enough to earn the NFL’s Offensive Rookie of the Year award as the Rams went 7-9 and just missed the playoffs. He completed 60 percent of his passes for 3,512 yards with 18 touchdowns and 15 interceptions.
Injuries began for Bradford in ’11 when he missed all of parts of seven games, the Rams tumbled and Spagnuole was fired.
After tearing his ACL the first time in 2013, and then a second time in the 2014 preseason, current Rams head coach Jeff Fisher decided to part ways with the former No. 1 overall pick and sent him to Chip Kelly and the Eagles for Nick Foles and a 2016 second-round pick.
Now as Bradford continues his comeback he faces a new foe and old friend in his biggest game as an Eagles thus far.
Is there an advantage for him, knowing what kind of defense Spagnuolo likes to play?
“As far as my knowledge of his defense it’s been a long time,” Bradford said. “But there is some familiarity. When I was going against his defense back then we were in a lot (two back), now teams use a lot more (one back, three wide receiver sets). So a lot has changed.
“I don’t know if there’s an advantage. It’s been a long time since we worked together. It’s really hard to say.”
znModeratorshould be an exciting next 11 games.
Red games = tougher
Blue games = less toughOctober 25 Cleveland Browns
November 1 San Francisco 49ers
November 8 @ Minnesota Vikings
November 15 Chicago Bears
November 22 @ Baltimore Ravens
November 29 @ Cincinnati Bengals
December 6 Arizona Cardinals
December 13 Detroit Lions
Thu December 17 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
December 27 @ Seattle Seahawks
January 3 @ San Francisco 49ersThey need to win 3 of the 5 red games, and 5 of the 6 blue games, or any combination (eg. 4 red games + 4 blue games).
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October 18, 2015 at 12:50 am in reply to: A closer look at what could be next for Rams and Saffold #32523znModeratorThat is fine. I fixed it. cause I mostly did it to focus on Saffold. Making a separate thread is ok.
My bad. Next time I will ask first. Every now and then I get an itchy trigger finger. Fair enough?
October 18, 2015 at 12:19 am in reply to: A closer look at what could be next for Rams and Saffold #32516znModeratorYou know I move some of these things because I think they would make cool threads. I hope you don’t mind.
For example I think this is a very interesting point:
I can’t remember a time when the Rams have had this much talent, draft capitol, and cap space all in combination.
October 18, 2015 at 12:15 am in reply to: A closer look at what could be next for Rams and Saffold #32513znModeratorIf they plan to spend the money on another vet guard, they might as well keep Saffold. imo
Maybe use some of Saffold’s cap space to resign Barnes? I like our young players on the Oline.
Could you explain what Wagoner was talking about in regards to Saffold’s injury guarantee of 4.5. I would appreciate it.
October 17, 2015 at 10:17 pm in reply to: A closer look at what could be next for Rams and Saffold #32505znModeratorWhat other free agent VET guards
would be available if they released Saffold.They are potentially on the hook for 4.5 M against the cap if they cut him. That’s an injury guarantee. That 4.5 M (if I am following this) is in addition to a hit on the signing bonus.
So probably better to keep him, whether or not he’s a starter.
My big issue is that he wasn’t playing well this year before the injury.
znModeratorAsk me again at the end of the year.
i might feel differently when the season ends and no progress has been made.
Me 3. I like where they;re going but I don’t have any particular loyalty to HIM per se. Though that’s a bigger, more complicated issue.
znModeratorYep, the players know Fisher’s system well.
Stuck at .500 play over the last 3 1/2 years.
My view is that that is not the coach. Fact is they had back-up qbs for 25 of those games, and multiply injured OLs for 28 of them. The times when they had a running threat, a relatively healthy OL, and a starting-caliber qb they did well. Actually though that’s only 11 of 48 games. In those 11 games they were 6-4-1 and that included 6 games against top 10 defenses.
As I said elsewhere, they built a line in 2012/13 and it got injured.
I always think it’s a mistake to not account for crucial things like (multiple, simultaneous) OL injuries.
An equivalent would be a young line. Do you think Foles and the Rams in general would have done better so far if they had a solid, veteran line to start with? Like they had in 2013. Well it’s the same thing from 2012-14, except it’s multiple injuries and not youth, and except for it’s mostly not Foles-level qbs, and also except it’s across 37 games.
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znModeratorfrom off the net
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thehammer
Foles ran a 4.68 short shuttle and 7.14 3 cone…basically the worst scores by a qb going back to 2002…as far back as nfldraftscout kept records. A heavy legged, bad athlete that struggles moving inside the pocket. Flacco ran a 4.27 and a 6.82 in comparison.
my problem with Foles. isn’t his slow feet .it’s the mental part. I went back rewatched all his int’s at Philly. They were almost all identical..slow in his reads getting the ball to his 2nd receiver…just consistently late which shows in his time in the pocket.
Foles has averaged 2.84 sec in time to throw throw the ball(2.63 in 2015)for his career…scary slow times for a pocket passer..Brady and P Manning, two more bad athletes, avg around 2.3 secs and are always among the quickest in time to throw in the nfl. .
.5 seconds is an eternity in the pocket. He ain’t doing the young oline any favors and even Mannion, another bad athlete, only needed 2.35 secs to throw in the preseason…
bad athlete who is slow in his reads which shows in his play action qb rating of 111.3 and bad non play action qb rating of 66.5..also Foles has thrown away 16 balls this season the most in the nfl and almost twice as the next qb… Slow dropping back into the pocket and slow finding his 2nd option so often has to just throw the ball out of bounds when pressured
Foles is a qb you can lose with but that might be a tad harsh. Best comparision might be Matt Schaub at Houston but Schaub had Andre Johnson to throw to who could easily beat man coverage…Rams don’t have wr on the team who wins 1 v. 1
Foles has a lot to like, hard worker, good size, great touch on his intermediate, long routes and is fearless… BUT also has serious negatives…struggles without play action, needs great pass protection and a good #1 wr capable of winning 1 v. 1 battles to be effective.
znModeratorwatch Tim Barnes, he is relentless.
He’ll hit his guy then quickly get to the second level and hit another guy.
I think Barnes is exceeding expectations. But then the next problem Barnes presents is that he is on a one-year.
In terms of GR, that’s a highlight vid. The people who watched him on all 22 and like him were concentrating on several successive plays, and even then people note that he is not “there” yet in terms of consistency. FWIW here again is the GB reporter who remarked on GR.
All quotes in blue:
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from Rating the Packers vs. Rams
Bob McGinn | On the Packers
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-rams-b99594632z1-332282942.html
As the game wore on, left tackle Greg Robinson played like a man among boys. . . . With refinement, Robinson might have the dancing-bear feet and aggressive temperament to become the next dominant tackle.
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And here is a GR enthusiast who watched the all-22:
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Pass Pro is still a work in progress…but watch each and every pass play…and I bet you see some dominant plays, some good plays, some stalemates and a few plays where he just blows it…
The Rams run behind him and he is mashing people.
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My thing about things like this is read lots of sources, trust your eyes, and see what the range is. In general, the range is that he’s improving. In terms of the specific claim that he is run blocking well or at least was in the GB game, that’s harder to pin down without viewing the 22, but I would say that to me it sounds likely.
Do the Rams run behind him?
That’s hard to tell with a zone blocking scheme since you don’t design those to open a specific hole. It’s a flow that opens up lanes, and the RB has to read the options.
BUt according to ESPN splits, (and I don’t know the answer to this until I look which I am doing right now for the first time), this is how his runs tend to go:
On 55 carries, TG has run
right sideline 8 … 1.5 a carry
right side 7 … 11.6 a carry
middle 18 … 4.5 carry
left side 11 … 7.9 a carry
left sideline 11… 4.8 a carryThat’s all fwiw
znModeratoragainst a journeyman qb and a lousy defense.
One they played before, too.
Week 12, November 24, Chicago Bears at Rams, Rams win 42-21.
Josh McCown: 36 of 47 for 352 yards, 2 TDs, 1 Int
znModeratorHere;s the way I see it. Fwiw.
So far they have played 4 teams PFF ranks in the top 10: Green Bay (1), Arizona (6), Seattle (7), Pittsburgh (9). They beat 2 of them.
The same 4 teams all have top 10 defenses: Green Bay (6), Arizona (7), Pittsburgh (9), and Seattle (10).
3 of those teams have top 10 offenses: Arizona (1), Green Bay (5), and Pittsburgh (10).
So as I said they won 2, and in the other 2, they were actually visibly in the games and in fact the games were there for the taking.
They did that with a new coordinator, a new qb, and a new young OL which, as any new young OL would be, is struggling. Their receivers are not in sync, and they only had Gurley for 2 of the games.
Young OLs do get more in sync, the qb will get more in sync, there’s Gurley, and the receivers can settle down.
If even some of that happens, a team with as much working against as the Rams had in the 1st 4 games will be….to use the simplest, most obvious word…better.
A team that played like that in the first games while stumbling over their own deficits and problems has a good future. All they have to do is get more in sync in a couple of areas, and so stop beating themselves.
It’s here, it’s arriving, you can see the postman at the mailbox.
znModeratorfrom PFF POWER RANKINGS FOR WEEK 6
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/13/pff-power-rankings-for-week-6/
15. St. Louis Rams
4 of the 5 teams the Rams have played so far rank in the top 10, according to PFF power rankings:
Green Bay (1)
Arizona (6)
Seattle (7)
Pittsburgh (9)znModeratorfrom PFF POWER RANKINGS FOR WEEK 6
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/13/pff-power-rankings-for-week-6/
15. St. Louis Rams
Wide receiver Tavon Austin has forced seven player to miss tackles on his receptions, tied for eighth-most in the league. He’s the only player in the top 10 with fewer than 20 receptions. Last year, he only forced five players to miss tackles on his 32 receptions.
October 17, 2015 at 1:42 am in reply to: The effects of all the sacks and pressure on Russell Wilson & other Seattle woes #32462znModeratorWHAT’S WRONG WITH MY TEAM? SEAHAWKS EDITION
What’s up with the 2-3 Seahawks this season? PFF dives into the data to explain.
VID LINK:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/14/whats-wrong-with-my-team-seahawks-edition/
znModeratorfrom off the net
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fearsomefour
I see Foles create pressure sometimes by rolling to his right, always to his right, when he feels pressure that may not be there. In the Washington game there was a play where Robinson blocked his man down inside….there was no one to to Foles left, feeling pressure that wasn’t really there he rolled to his right….running past Saffold who had his back to Foles, Saffolds guy just peeled off and gave chase. He created pressure on that play.
It is a mix of things. The O line has certainly done their part to create pressure….not picking up simples twists or stunts (again), whiffing on blocks and not having a consistent running game. Foles does his part as well. Until the running game works well enough where play action has meaning some struggle with both will continue I think.
This is the knock of Foles. Slow through progressions and finding secondary guys. Leads to plenty of check downs too. In Philly throwing to RBs is a decent chunk of the offense. Here it is a lack of early down production. The running and play action is what Foles needs more than anything. If that doesn’t develop I think Foles will continue to be up and down. His last 13 games (after his “dream” season) he has 19 TDs and 15 INTs. Thats who he is without extra help from the O in my opinion.
znModeratori think what’s interesting is that they mix and match and disguise all the different plays making them look the same right up until the last second.
I like everything else you say too, but focusing on this bit, this is why Kendricks is so important to this offense. I wish he would get over his pass catching slump, and maybe part of it was the injury, but still—this is an offensive design made for him. My mantra on LK is that he can line up anywhere in the formation (in-line, out wide, in the backfield) and pass block, or run block, or catch a pass from any one of those spots. Plus of course he can motion from one spot to another. Taken all together that means he adds another layer of deception to the offense. He adds to the power, he adds to the movement, he adds to protection, and he can fake any of that and go catch a pass too.
This could be quite a formula.
znModeratorYou know what would have been better than fining him?
Penalizing him 15 yards.
Well I agree.
znModeratorBean counters. I swear to God. Somehow, somewhere, that fine makes a lot of sense to somebody.
63 dollars covers the postage.
It’s really only that.
znModerator@SiriusXMNFL: BREAKING NEWS: #Browns Johnny Manziel was pulled over by Avon police on highway, arguing with girlfriend. Drinking involved
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