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znModeratorBarf!
I saw that. Made me sick.
I feel left out of the joke. What happened? I am assuming a broadcaster said something dumb.
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znModeratorPractice Report 12/3: Replicating Gurley’s Success, Foles to Start at QB
Myles Simmons
In Week 4, running back Todd Gurley made his first pro start against the Cardinals in Arizona. St. Louis’ ground game had not been particularly effective in the first three contests, but head coach Jeff Fisher continued to say the club was close to breaking out.
All that came to fruition in the second half of St. Louis’ 24-22 victory, as Gurley ran for 144 yards in the third and fourth quarters, including runs of 52, 30, 23, and 20 yards. The running back also slid down in the final period instead of running in for what would have been his first NFL touchdown, allowing the Rams to keep the ball and kill the clock.
But even after all that, Gurley said the most memorable part of the game was just coming away with a victory.
“Hopefully, we can get that again and be undefeated in the division,” Gurley said Thursday.
That first Arizona contest started a string of four straight games of at least 125 yards rushing for the rookie out of Georgia. But lately, Gurley’s numbers have gone down. Last week, Gurley had only nine carries for 19 yards.
Offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti said the team would like to get Gurley more carries this weekend in order to kick start the rushing attack again.
“Hopefully like last time, you continue to get better throughout the game,” Cignetti said.
“We had a slow first half against the Cardinals, then we had a big second half,” Fisher said. “We’ve looked hard at it. We just have to continue to give him opportunities. So, we’ll get creative in the run game, and got to get hats on hats, and let him go.”
But the Cardinals will be revved up to slow Gurley down. Defensive back Tyrann Mathieu said this week Arizona may have let up just a bit in the second half of that October matchup, based on how the game had gone through the first two quarters.
“For some reason in the second half, we just didn’t play our assignments the proper way — getting out of gaps, just creating these large running lanes for Gurley to run through,” Mathieu said. “Obviously, any time you have a running back with his type of ability, any type of open field, it’s a good deal. So, we have to do a better job of constricting running lanes and definitely having more than one person trying to tackle him.”
It’s also been a while since Gurley broke off a long run, as his last rush of at least 20 yards was his 71-yard touchdown against San Francisco on Nov. 1.
“You don’t point your finger at one thing,” Cignetti said. “First off, you give defenses credit. Defenses have done a very nice job. We’re going to continue to give him at bats. The big ones will come.”
But don’t think the decreased production is because of a so-called “rookie wall.”
“What wall?” Gurley replied to that inquiry. “I’m good.”
“He’s in great shape right now,” Fisher said, later adding, “He’s not frustrated. He’s a team guy. He’s having fun, wants to help us win. He knows he’s a big part of this team. His production on the field not only helps offense, it helps defense, it helps everything. He’s in good shape.”
One aspect that may help the ground game pick up is the likely return of right tackle Rob Havenstein to the starting lineup. The rookie offensive lineman has missed three of the last four games due to injury, but Havenstein said Thursday he’s getting back to 100 percent.
“I’m feeling pretty good,” Havenstein said. “Our training staff has been doing an excellent job with me and communicating with everyone, and been on the same page. I’m giving my all to get back out there.”
“It’s great getting Rob back,” Cignetti said. “He’s smart, tough, physical. He’s making tremendous progress every day, every game.”
With the myriad injuries across the offensive line, Gurley and the unit have had to make adjustments based on who is out there.
“Same schemes at the end of the day. One man goes down, another man has to step up. It is what it is,” Gurley said. “Rob’s a great player. But, like I said, whoever is in there, we feel confident and we’re going to try and get the job done. Rob is a great player, so definitely happy to have him back.”
According to Havenstein, the key to replicating the success the Rams had against the Cardinals in their first meeting is fairly simple.
“It’s just staying on our blocks and giving Todd a chance,” Havenstein said. “He’s going to do special things. He’s that type of player, that type of back, and the way he works in practice is unbelievable. All we have to do is our job — whatever your job is on that play, just do your job and just give Todd a chance to make a play.”
If the Rams can do that, they’ll have a great chance to win on Sunday.
FOLES TO START ON SUNDAY
With quarterback Case Keenum still going through the concussion protocol, Fisher said Nick Foles would be the team’s starting signal-caller against Arizona this week.
“It’s part of the protocol, we’re just evaluating [Keenum],” Fisher said. “All the tests with the neurologists and things are OK. It’s just about him feeling 100 percent.”
If Keenum is feeling ready to go on Friday, Fisher said the quarterback could be the backup for Sunday. If not, that role would once again fall to rookie Sean Mannion.
“He’s got a chance to be a [No.] two this week, particularly because he’s missed two days of practice,” Fisher said. “What we’re hoping for is whether he’s a two or just inactive. So, Nick’s going.”
While it won’t be for this week, when Keenum is good to go, Fisher reiterated the Houston product will once again be the team’s starter.
INJURY REPORT
There were no changes from Wednesday to Thursday on the injury report.
Robert Quinn (back), Andrew Donnal (knee), Trumaine Johnson (thigh), and Greg Zuerlein (right hip) did not practice. Keenum (concussion) was able to practice on a limited basis. And Rob Havenstein was a full participant in Thursday’s session.
znModeratorScout: I’d hate to be team in need of QB in 2016 NFL Draft
By Daniel Jeremiah and Lance Zierlein
he scoop: “I’d hate to be a team in need of a quarterback. The best two in this draft might end up being from Memphis and North Dakota State and that ought to scare the (expletive) out of you. It takes some courage to turn that card in.” — NFC scout
The skinny: Any time a general manager takes a quarterback early in the first round, he’s putting his job on the line, no matter where the player comes from. It might be a lot easier to pull the trigger on a QB from a marquee program who has played on a big stage before, but certainly this scout knows that there are plenty of examples of QBs from top programs that were picked early and went bust (JaMarcus Russell, anyone?). We’ve seen QBs from small schools come off the board early and go on to great success (Ben Roethlisberger, Phil Simms, Terry Bradshaw).
As for the two QBs he’s referring to, North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz will get a chance to prove himself against tougher competition at the Reese’s Senior Bowl in January. Memphis’ Paxton Lynch is a junior and has not revealed his intentions for the 2016 NFL Draft. As an underclassman, he has until a Jan. 18 deadline to make a decision on early draft entry. Both QBs are impressive talents. Our colleague Gil Brandt sees plenty to like in Wentz’s game, and we saw the qualities of a top QB prospect when we took an up-close look at Lynch last month.
znModeratorNo kidding? I wouldn’t know, I didn’t watch him till this year. Is he on meth or something?
It’s all just theories. But, he was never a razzle-dazzle passing phenom. He had his strengths. He was never great under pressure, though this time he has completely unraveled. He’s also in this odd situation where he has been demoted but starts anyway as the #2 because the #1 is still recovering. I don’t think I have seen anything quite like that.
znModeratorNope, Arians still doesn’t like Rams
Jim Thomas
Bruce Arians played nice Wednesday on his conference call with reporters in St. Louis.
He talked about how he has been going against Rams coach Jeff Fisher and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams for a long time, and how the Rams have a great coaching staff.
“I respect the heck out of them,” Arians added. “It’s been a great game every time we’ve played since we got here. It’s a big division game.”
That’s called laying it on a little thick. By now we all know better from Arians, the crusty, straight-shooting coach of the NFC West-leading Arizona Cardinals.
Following the Cardinals’ hard-fought 19-13 victory over San Francisco this past Sunday, Arians said the Big Red must now get ready to play “that team we don’t like.” And he was up to his usual high jinks talking to Arizona reporters Wednesday, when he again talked about his dislike of the Rams.
“I’ll have dinner with ’em, but I ain’t liking ’em,” Arians said. “I ain’t drinking with ’em.”
OK, part of this is pure showmanship. But you also get the feeling that Arians probably won’t be exchanging Christmas cards with Fisher later this month. Then again, that’s what division rivalries are supposed to be like.
Does it hurt the Rams’ feelings that Arians doesn’t like them?
“No,” tight end Lance Kendricks said, laughing. “It’s motivation for both sides.”
“If they don’t like us, that’s perfectly OK,” linebacker James Laurinaitis added.
The Arians barbs were more pointed last Dec. 11 after a hard-fought 12-6 Arizona victory in a Thursday night game at the Edward Jones Dome.
“Everybody wanted to say how great their defense is, but I think they saw a good defense tonight, and it was in red and white,” Arians said at the time.
The Rams were coming off back-to-back shutouts entering that game, so their defense was receiving some hype.
“I love it when nobody says that you will have a chance to win,” Arians said after the game. “There is an 11-3 team, and a team that is always 8-8. You figure it out.”
The 8-8 remark is a now-familiar shot at Fisher’s résumé, and it’s one that the Rams’ coach not surprisingly doesn’t like. Even so, he has steered clear of any war of words with Arians and the Cardinals. And Wednesday was no different.
“I think we’ve got a rivalry going in the division with all three teams,” Fisher said. “I wouldn’t go as far as to say we don’t like them. We respect them and they play hard. We greeted (Arians) when the game’s over.
“Unfortunately for them, we were one of the two games that they lost.”
OK, maybe a slight jab there by Fisher. That was a reference to the Rams’ 24-22 victory at Arizona on Oct. 4, only the fourth loss by Arians in 21 games at University of Phoenix Stadium.
“I’m sure that there’s extra motivation there in addition to their playoff run and trying to secure a home-field advantage and all those kinds of things,” Fisher continued. “But we’re going to play; we’re going to play hard.”
Arizona (9-2) can’t clinch a playoff berth with a victory Sunday in St. Louis, but it can guarantee a 12th consecutive non-winning season for the Rams (4-7).
Amazingly, the Rams are unbeaten against the NFC West this season (3-0), but just 1-7 against the rest of the NFL. Although not quite so lopsided, that’s been the way it has gone since Fisher got here in 2012. The Rams are 10-10-1 against the NFC West, one of football’s toughest divisions in recent years, but 14-24 against everybody else.
“We built this team to compete in the division,” Fisher said. “There’s familiarity. I’m disappointed that we haven’t played good football outside the division, but we have good matchups (in the division). We understand the matchups. We understand the challenges.”
With hopes for a playoff berth all but extinguished, and the prospect of another losing season looming unmistakably on the horizon, that 3-0 record against the division is about all the Rams have to hang their hat on these days.
And to some Rams, this season is more about what the Rams haven’t done outside the division, than what they have done inside it.
“Honestly, it just comes down to us not finishing games this year,” defensive end William Hayes said. “You could put your finger on three games and say that it could’ve been a coin toss, it could’ve went either way.
“And that’s the big thing. I don’t think it has nothing to do with Coach (Fisher). I just think us as a collective group — the players — we’re not doing a good job of finishing plays and doing the things we need to do to win these football games.”
The three games Hayes was referring to were losses to Pittsburgh (12-6), Minnesota (21-18, in overtime), and Baltimore (16-13).
“You win those three games, now you’re talking about us being a wild-card team,” Hayes said. “And all this stuff that’s been going on in the media (about Fisher’s job security) is not even being mentioned.”
Those three games — Pittsburgh, Minnesota, and Baltimore — are the difference between 4-7 and 7-4.
“Exactly,” Hayes.
And the difference between two teams headed in opposite directions — the Cardinals have won five straight; the Rams have lost four in a row.
“We know what our challenges are,” Laurinaitis said. “We know that they have an unbelievable offense. They obviously have a couple backs out. They’re gonna come in here probably thinking they can throw it all around. Nobody’s gonna give us a chance to win.”
Probably not. Not even with feature back Chris Johnson (knee, leg) definitely out and third-down back Andre Ellington (turf toe) not expected to play Sunday for the Big Red.
znModeratorFoles kinda sux though I think – those weird rainbow passes, poor vision, and apparent inability to go through progressions.
Most of that? You wouldn’t have seen it in 2014.
There’s something going on this year that wasn’t part of his past.
But then all you can do is show the numbers.
Foles 2014:
completions 59.8%, TDs 4.2%, INTs 3.2%, YPA 7.0, qb rating 81.4
Foles 1st 4 games 2015
completions 63.1%, TDs 4.5%, INTs 0.9%, YPA 7.3, qb rating 98
Foles last 6 games 2015
completions 55.0%, TDs, 1.0%, INTs 4.2%, YPA 5.7, qb rating 63.9
znModeratorEarly preview: Rams vs. Cardinals
Joe Lyons
COMING THIS WEEK
The reeling Rams, 4-7 and losers in their last four outings, will square off with the hottest team outside of undefeated Carolina when they face the Arizona Cardinals (9-2) in a noon game Sunday at the Edward Jones Dome. Arizona gutted out a 19-13 win at San Francisco on Sunday and has won five in a row and six of its last seven.
PLAYER TO WATCH
Wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald. In his 12th NFL season, the 32-year-old Fitzgerald shows no signs of slowing down any time soon. On Sunday, he caught 10 passes for 66 yards while surpassing a pair of league legends. With 13,143 career receiving yards, he passed Hall of Famer Steve Largent and moved into 16th place on the all-time list and with 992 career catches as he moved to No. 12, passing future Hall of Famer Randy Moss as well as current 49ers’ wideout Anquan Boldin.
An eight-time Pro Bowl selection, Fitzgerald has 83 catches for 992 yards and seven touchdowns this season.
HE SAID IT
“It was just a fight,’’ Arizona quarterback Carson Palmer said after the Cardinals won at San Francisco for the first time since 2008. “That was an NFC West fight. And that’s what we’re going. Being on top the way we are, we’re going to get everybody’s best shot.’’
Palmer, who struggled at times Sunday, scored the go-ahead TD on an 8-yard run with 2:28 to play. It was just the eighth scoring run of his career and his first since 2008. With the win, the Cardinals have a three-game lead atop the NFC West.
INJURIES
Rams coach Jeff Fisher is hopeful that QB Case Keenum (concussion), DE Robert Quinn (hip/back), tackle Rob Havenstein (calf), cornerback Trumaine Johnson (thigh) and kicker Greg Zuerlein (groin) can make it back to the practice field at some point this week.
In the third quarter of Sunday’s road game, the Cardinals lost cornerback Jerraud Powers (calf) and running backs Chris Johnson (knee) and Andre Ellington (foot) to injury. On Monday, Johnson, a prime candidate for Comeback Player of the Year, learned that he’d broken his tibia and would be out indefinitely. The Cardinals played Sunday without defensive linemen Frostee Rucker (ankle), Cory Redding (ankle) and Ed Stinson (groin).
SERIES HISTORY
The Rams, who trail 37-35-2 in the series, snapped a three-game losing streak against the Cardinals with a 24-22 win on Oct. 4 at University of Phoenix Stadium. The Rams set the tone early in the Week 4 contest as Mark Barron knocked the ball away from the Cardinals’ David Johnson on the opening kickoff and teammate Daren Bates recovered at the Arizona 17 to set up a 12-yard TD pass from Nick Foles to Tavon Austin. The visiting Rams held the lead the rest of the way, limiting the Cardinals to five field goals and a TD pass with 4:38 to play.
znModeratorFoles kinda sux though I think – those weird rainbow passes, poor vision, and apparent inability to go through progressions.
Most of that? You wouldn’t have seen it in 2014.
There’s something going on this year that wasn’t part of his past.
znModeratorRT Havenstein (calf) was full participation.
That’s good news anyway. That means Reynolds goes back to LOG. He’s not only better AT LOG he is better than any other LOG option. Only Wichman is a newbie. It’s a better OL. With Hav out, they had to short change 3 positions; now it’s just one.
znModeratorJim Plunkett 35 years ago…….
Does Chris Chandler, Stan Humphries, Billy Kilmer, David Woodley, or Craig Morton count?
It’s not a very common occurance……
Warren Moon anyone?
Gannon, Buerelein, Testeverde….
znModeratorRight now, LMU’s numbers are different from mine.
I will have to double check mine.
Numbers double-checked. LMU was wrong on a couple of things too. .
I am going to edit the previous numbers posts.
……………..
Weeks 1-4
70/111 (63.1%), 5 TDs, 1 INT- 98 QB Rating
Weeks 5-12
105/191 (55.0%),2 TDs, 8 INTs- 63.9 QB Rating
In terms of the 2 game v. 6 game comparison, with just Pitt and Washington v. the last 6 games, it’s
Pitt/Wash
36/60 (60%) 1 TD 1 INT, 74.7 QB Rating
Weeks 5-12
105/191 (55.0%),2 TDs, 8 INTs- 63.9 QB Rating
znModeratorRight now, LMU’s numbers are different from mine.
I will have to double check mine.
===================
A couple of NUMBERS WRONG so edited, see next post for the fix
———–
LMU93
Foles: weeks 1-4 vs. weeks 5-12
Astounding.
Weeks 1-4
70/111 (63.1%), 815 yards, 7.3 YPA, 5 TDs, 1 INT- 96.5 QB RatingWeeks 5-12
105/191 (55.0%), 1,091 yards, 5.7 YPA, 2 TDs, 8 INTs- 57.7 QB Rating-
This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by
zn.
znModeratorI cant listen to Frank. I stopped listening to him a while back. I dont mean to be
mean…but he seems really dim-witted to me. And he doesnt listen. And he has
no clue how to ask follow up questions. And he doesn’t know how to do an interview.
I think he must be related to the station owner er somethin.If you listen to John Clayton on that, his thing was, where was the NFL spotter. He pointed out that a slo-mo close-up view on tv is not what you see from the sidelines. The spotter, though, had the tv view. He says he didn’t intervene because the Rams trainer was out there talking to CK. However, of course, the Rams trainer didn’t know what the spotter knew.
The assessment appears to be that means there’s a crack in the procedures. The league set out to fix that particular glitch so it doesn’t happen again.
I really think that just sums it up. To me, the people blaming Fisher are just incorrect about what happened. They get their eyes filled with the tv view and act like that what we saw in that view was visible from the sidelines.
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znModeratorIf he’s such a find why couldn’t he earlier break into the ridiculously weak WR lineup of the Rams? I’m more impressed with Welker and wonder why it took so long to even look at him?
Well because #1 rookies don’t play much for Fisher right off. Not on offense anyway. However, he was doing special things on special teams, too. So I don’t think he’s a frontline receiver, just a very good complementary player who always seems to be doing smart things.
And it doesn’t hurt that of the Rams WRs and TEs who have had 10 or more targets, he has the highest catch percentage and is tied for the lowest drop percentage.
znModeratorOnce a QB totally loses it, can he get it back?
Anybody got any examples?
Was it Schaub that was good for a while
and then went crazy with INTs and bad play…and then?
Did he ever play well again? I dont keep up with other teams
anymore.Did Bulger ever play well again after
he was bulgerized?I think Jim Everett went to pieces
and came back didnt he? I forget.Sometimes players just cant get it back.
I’m not sure how good Foles was to begin with.
I dunno anymore.w
vThe problem with the Bulger example is that what caused his decline…a total OL wipe-out…continued. So it wasn’t just 2007, it was 2008 and 2009 too. He had 3 solid years of those conditions. He eventually retired from the game because he had had so many concussions. And that was before concussion protocols.
Warner did play poorly in NY. There’s a myth about that because sometimes people say that the Giants had a winning record when they pulled him. Actually they had lost 4 out of the last 5 games. When I read around in the NY press accounts to get their view of it, the consensus was that the Giants OL had fallen apart.
One example that comes immediately to mind is Cutler. None of his previous years were as good as this one.
McCown was bad as a rule before 2013, good in 2013, bad again in 2014, good again in 2015. For example his last 3 years, his qb rate was 109.0 (Chicago), 70.5 (Tampa), 93.3 (Cleveland).
So just tossing ideas out there without studying it.
I would say it’s possible, yeah.
…znModeratorGreen Bay is not the turning point for Foles….
Foles pre-GB…. his numbers vs Arizona and Seattle sku those pre-GB numbers, because Foles wasn’t very good vs Pittsburgh and in Washington ….
Foles benefited from 3 turnovers vs Seattle and got 146 yards rushing from Gurley in Arizona..
The Rams cannot put the game on Foles’ shoulders, because when they do, they lose. He had chances in Washington, Pittsburgh, and in Minnesota… he wasn’t even a “game manager” in those games…….
First, there’s ups and downs within each patch. So for example he was statisically okay against SF and Cleveland. Minnesota was after Green Bay.
As I recall no one was putting those games on Foles. For example, if Kendricks had held on to the ball against the Steelers, Rams would have won.
But following your your response, let;s just isolate Wash and Pitt and compare just those to the GB-and-after games.
NUMBERS were WRONG so edited and fixed:
In terms of the 2 game v. 6 game comparison, with just Pitt and Washington v. the last 6 games, it’s
Pitt/Wash
26/60 (60%) 1 TD 1 INT, 74.7 QB Rating
Weeks 5-12
105/191 (55.0%),2 TDs, 8 INTs- 63.9 QB Rating
I would rather have the 1st set of games. And of course the improvement for THAT Foles would come from the young OL eventually gelling.
znModeratorI think our biggest disagreement is on Greg Robinson.
You seem to think “he’ll be fine” and I seem to think
“no, he wont”.Well, the difference there is that I am just a normal objective Rams fan, and you are not, which means you approach the entire thing blinded by spite and malice.
But of course I hasten to add, that’s your right. So don’t let people like me tell you you have to be right about things in order to post.
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znModeratorfrom off the net
—
Flipper336
The qbs, 2016
Guys will get pushed up/hyped because of the position. I see no top 10 types and probably no top 25 types either. My early view though (VERY loose order)….
I still like Hackenburg. I have seen EVERY other top QB in this draft struggle just as bad or worse when dealing with even close to the pressure/defensive stress he sees on a consistent basis…and all have better help on the offensive side. Lightning quick release, makes every throw with ease, keeps eyes downfield, has no conscience or quit even after two years of beatings. Makes some inaccurate passes that make me slap my forehead wondering what happened though.
Carson Wentz – overall mechanics need to be tightened up. Accurate, doesn’t panic with pressure, can make plays on the run with his legs or arm. The competition issue doesn’t bother me.
Paxton Lynch – Big, mobile, cannon arm, throws with nice accuracy to all levels.
Connor Cook – Really solid prospect. Sets up quickly, gets through his progressions, extremely fast release. Inconsistent accuracy but can be pinpoint. Really good example of “what if ” with Hackenburg. Very similar prospects but I think Hack is even better at Michigan State and wonder if Cook isn’t a late round guy at Penn State.
Goff – Similar prospect to Bradford but he’s at least faced some pressure and made some tight window throws.
Jacob Coker – Was neck and neck for the Florida St. job when J.Winston finally won it at the wire. Big with good feet, strong arm, accurate, keeps his offense on schedule.
Kevin Hogan – Hate his delivery but makes quick, smart decisions and throws with good timing and accuracy.
==========
from off the net
—
Deadpool
Its really early.
As far as the top 6 today:
1. Connor Cook
2a. Paxton Lynch
2b. Jared Goff
4. Christian Hackenberg
5. Carson Wentz
6. Kevin HoganThis is the 3rd year I have been hyping Cook and Hogan, so maybe I have my blinders firmly in place. And living in ND and Wentz going to NDSU is maybe a little homerish.
As far as highest ceiling:
Lynch and Hackenberg. Lynch has not played ultra tough competition, nor does he have NFL quality around him. Hackenberg was the top QB coming out of HS and looked good his frosh year, then he had no one around him and he has looked not good. But his talent is still there.
1 or both may go back to college. Hackenberg more likely to go back then Lynch.
Most mobile:
as far as those 6, its Hogan, then Lynch.
Best arm: Hackenberg
Highest Floor: Cook, pro style offense, a senior and top level competition.
I think Lynch goes first (not overall, just as far as QBs go), then Goff, then Cook and then the rest in the 2nd-3rd rounds.
I don’t like comparisons, but I will do it here:
Lynch – Rothlisberger. Both big kids. Lynch is 6′-7″ 240. Both are a lot more athletic then you would think, both came from smaller FBS colleges. The one thing about Lynch is that he has not played against 1 draftable CB all year.
Goff – Matt Ryan other then different systems. An accurate, pocket passer. I have seen him make a read (at least it looked like it in slow mo playback) he will stand in the pocket and take a hit. He just seemed like he was pushing too hard in the middle of the season, and he kinda had to because he had no one around him. But he made some bad decisions. He can move around in the pocket.
Connor Cook – Carson Palmer (not quite the arm) Chad Pennington maybe. High floor, lower ceiling. Mobile, tough, came from a pro style offense in a tough conference. Accuracy is his bugaboo, but this year its better. Not afraid to make the tough throw. Nothing that WOWs you, but he wins.
Christian Hackenberg – A poor man’s Andrew Luck maybe Phillip Rivers or a less jerky Cutler? So much arm talent, can move in the pocket, but has issues with throwing the underneath stuff and his mechanics are a mess right now. 1 year behind another QB with a good QB coach would do him wonders.
Carson Wentz – Another Big Ben comp. – Can make all the throws, can and will scramble and lowers his shoulder to finish off a run. A leader withprototypical size. His issue is level of competition. FBS. He is out until the senior bowl with a small bone fracture in his throwing wrist. He played the whole USD game with it. He’s tough.
Kevin Hogan – compares to Phillip Rivers in every way. Funky elongated delivery that makes me want to kick bunnies. Plenty of arm strength, accurate and can scramble more then Rivers ever could. And a pro style offense.
znModeratorRams could hop aboard QB carousel in ’16
Jim Thomas
In a few months this may be Los Angeles’ problem. But as the 2015 Rams season winds down — or should we say, unravels — it’s looking more and more like quarterback will be a top offseason priority.
Beginning with Sunday’s game against Arizona, that gives Nick Foles and Case Keenum five games to make an impression.
The person with the most to gain seemingly would be Keenum, whose contract expires after this season. It’s obvious that coach Jeff Fisher likes Keenum, or why trade for him last March — and as things turned out, basically hand him the No. 2 job over Austin Davis right then and there?
Fisher made it clear two weeks ago when benching Foles after the Chicago game that Keenum would not have a short leash. In re-iterating Monday that a healthy Keenum would be his starter this week against Arizona, it’s clear that Fisher wants to get more of a look.
“He’s really disappointed that he didn’t get to play last week,” Fisher said. “I don’t buy into the philosophy where someone’s going to lose their job because they got hurt.
“Unfortunately, Case had the set of circumstances at the end of the Baltimore game that prevented him from playing last week. Hopefully, he’s going to be back this week and he’ll play. I’m going to give Case a fair shot.”
After a players’ day off Tuesday, Fisher expects Keenum to be back on the practice field in some capacity Wednesday as he attempts to clear the NFL concussion protocol.
And what of Foles? He had a chance against Cincinnati to remind everyone why the Rams traded for him last March, starting in place of the concussed Keenum. Instead, he threw three interceptions, one of which was returned for a touchdown and another that killed a potential Rams scoring drive.
In matter-of-fact fashion, Fisher broke down the three INTs, mistakes you just can’t have under any circumstances, much less with an offense struggling mightily to score points.
“First (interception) was a little late,” Fisher said. “Reggie (Nelson) did a great job … read his eyes and just took off and pushed, and the ball was deflected.”
The Rams had a first down at the Cincinnati 23 with 44 seconds left in the first half when Foles threw that interception to Nelson on a ball tipped by fellow Bengals safety George Iloka. The pass was intended for tight end Jared Cook over the middle.
Foles’ second interception, made by veteran cornerback Leon Hall, was returned 19 yards for a victory-sealing touchdown with 5½ minutes to play in the third quarter. The ball was intended for Bradley Marquez, but as Fisher said, never should have been thrown.
“He was trying to make a play,” Fisher said. “He was scrambling around. He should not have thrown that ball. Throw the ball in the ground. Get what you can, get down, and punt the ball away.”
With the game’s outcome well-decided, Foles’ third interception took place in Cincinnati territory early in the fourth quarter on a play in which wide receiver Kenny Britt got open on a double-move.
“(Foles) was a little bit late,” Fisher said. “It sailed inside, and the safety made a great play on the ball.”
That gave Foles nine interceptions on the season, compared with only seven touchdowns.
“He’s a confident player,” Fisher insisted. “He’s confident. Those things are not unsettling to him. He comes back.”
But if Keenum returns and plays well, Foles might not see the field again this season. If that’s the case, the Rams must decide if Foles is salvageable for 2016. If the team decides to part ways with him, it would be costly.
A $6 million roster bonus payable on the third day of the 2016 league year (in March) became guaranteed when Foles was on the roster this past Aug. 15. In addition, there is $2 million of unamortized signing bonus money that would count against the 2016 cap if Foles were released. Counter-balancing that would be a relatively modest $1.75 million in base salary saved if he were released.
Last but not least is rookie Sean Mannion, the third-round draft pick out of Oregon State. He is just starting out on what was a four-year, $3.25 million contract coming out of college. So he’s going nowhere.
Based on the subpar play of Foles and Keenum so far, the outcry has risen among Rams fans and many media observers to play Mannion. Fisher tried to explain Monday why that’s probably not the best idea at this point.
“He’s been in the meetings with the quarterbacks every day since the draft,” Fisher said. “He got reps during camp. He got to play in preseason games. (But) once you get in the regular season your (No.) 1 and (No.) 2’s are getting the reps. It’s hard to get your (No.) 3 reps.”
The starting quarterback gets almost all of the practice repetitions with the first-team offense. The top backup gets most of the reps running the scout team offense against the Rams’ first-team defense. That leaves only a few crumbs for the third-stringer.
Long story short, Mannion isn’t ready to make a legitimate run at the starting job — at least not yet. But the Rams wouldn’t have drafted him in the third round if they didn’t think he had starter’s potential.
“That’s correct, yeah,” Fisher said. “Not many teams have drafted a quarterback in the third round and started him as rookie, either. It takes time.”
If the Rams chose not to re-sign Keenum and decided to bite the salary cap bullet on Foles, Mannion could be competing against some fresh faces in training camp.
In the draft, Michigan State’s Connor Cook, Memphis’ Paxton Lynch and California’s Jared Goff probably are the top three quarterback prospects at this point. That’s assuming Lynch and Goff, both juniors, turn pro.
As for free agency? Well, there’s this guy named Bradford whose contract is scheduled to expire after this season in Philadelphia.
December 2, 2015 at 6:45 am in reply to: at least Tavon is stepping up (including all 22 analysis of the long run) #35006znModeratorAll 22: Austin’s 60-Yard Run
Insider Myles Simmons breaks down wide receiver Tavon Austin’s 60-yard run against the Bengals.
znModeratorNick Wagoner on why there is a need for a regime change in St. Louis
znModeratorhttp://theramshuddle.com/topic/jt-chat-121/
If the NFL is serious about concussions and not just paying lip service to the issue, Why didn’t they do anything in regards to the Case Keenum situation?
by Studebaker 2:29 PM
JT: What would you have them do? Fines? Suspensions? Firing the press box observer? The circumstances weren’t as obvious as they appeared on television replay _ in slow motion. I think the simplest answer is to give the press box trainer more power. Call the medical timeout, and get the quarterback over to the neutral sideline doctor to take a look at the player. The whole idea of this is to take the decision-making on checking out the player out of the hands of the teams involved, isn’t it?
znModeratorHoward and Frank see it very differently. Frank wants to argue with Howard. It’s funny.
It is almost like a comedy routine, with Frank using all the bad internet arguments.
Yes like here’s an example. Frank says, Rams had this lineman named Remmers on their roster, and he got away, and he now starts for Carolina. Plus they let Barksdale get away. Howard makes salient points about that (Remmers is playing next to good veterans, so how good is he?)
Meanwhile, I checked, and PFF rates Havenstein higher than both Barksdale and Remmers. In fact, Hav is their 19th ranked overall OT and their 4th ranked right OT. Remmers is rated 43rd overall among OTs.
Frank always represents to me the default setting of common bad arguments about the Rams.
It’s like he’s a big McDonalds burger fan hosting a nutrition show.
Though I also noticed….no more Cosell on 920.
…
znModeratorPerhaps Fisher is concerned about how the veterans will receive the news of starting Mannion while the team isn’t yet mathematically eliminated. Players might take it as a waving of the white flag by Fisher. Just guessing.
I think he really thinks Mannion isn’t ready. From the last press conference:
(On QB Sean Mannion)
“Well, he’s doing everything he can. He’s been in the meetings with the quarterbacks every day since the draft. He got reps during camp. He got to play in preseason games. Once you get in the regular season, your (No.) one’s and (No.) two’s are getting the reps. It’s hard to get your (No.) three reps. (No.) One gets primarily, probably 95 percent of the reps. Your No. 2 gets to work against the defense. Last week because of the circumstances, Sean got a little bit more work against the defense. But, I think when he comes in the game in ‘mop up’ situations like that where the defense declared itself and still six for seven and making good decisions and putting the ball where he’s supposed to, there’s light there and there’s hope there.”(On if you only draft a quarterback in the third round of the NFL draft because you think he’s a potential starter)
“That’s correct, yeah. Not many teams have drafted a quarterback in the third round and started him as a rookie either. It takes time.”znModeratorHoward and Frank see it very differently. Frank wants to argue with Howard. It’s funny.
December 1, 2015 at 1:47 am in reply to: at least Tavon is stepping up (including all 22 analysis of the long run) #34978znModeratorOn one play I saw something I haven’t seen before.
Don’t quite remember the play it happened on. Was it a punt return? Or the offensive run where he reversed field to make something happen? Either way Tavon didn’t have much room and was doing a lot of lateral running trying to set up a crease…defenders everywhere…and he gets out of bounds finally on the Bengals sideline.
And this Bengals player came up to him and just pats him on the shoulder, the old “way to go!” style gesture, full of admiration and respect. It really was “way to go!”
Like I said I have never seen that before.
..
It’s this play. My description above was from memory and not entirely accurate but more or less right.
===
And here is the long run… from a vid showing top 5 runs of week 12. Tavon is #3. It starts at 2:20 in:
znModeratorRams Head Coach Jeff Fisher –– 11/30/15
(Opening statement)
“I’m going to kind of give you an injury update from the game. I guess I’ll speak first on (QB) Case’s (Keenum) situation. He’s still being evaluated. He’s much better. We’re going to do some things with him tomorrow and then hopefully he’ll be on the practice field in a limited fashion or a full capacity on Wednesday, so we’ll see how that goes. We kept (T) Rob Havenstein up in the game. He was active. We did not need to go there. We felt like he gave us the best chance to give us some options in case we had a tackle problem. Rob didn’t have to play, so I would expect there will be a really good chance that he’ll get back to the right tackle spot this week. We’ll see how he is. (G) Cody (Wichmann) came through it okay. (DE) Rob Quinn had a really good session well before pregame warm ups, so we’re encouraged there. He had a good workout today. We’re going to see if we can get him back on the practice field here on Wednesday. Then (G/T) Andrew (Donnal) is coming along. He’s really ahead of schedule, which is good, with the MCL sprain. (CB) Trumaine (Johnson) has got a chance. We haven’t ruled him out this week. (K) Greg (Zuerlein), we’re just going to see how he is later in the week. It’s probably unlikely that he kicks any time before Friday, maybe Saturday. We don’t want to stress the injury. It’s kind of a…I’d describe it as a hip flexor strain, something along those lines. (K) Zach (Hocker) did a good job for us. He hit the good extra point, then he kicked off, got the two touchbacks. We’ll just see how they are. From the injury front, we’re getting better. We’ve got a chance to get some people back.”(On if Quinn’s main issue is his back)
“It’s his back, yeah. It was hip and then back and now we’re concerned about the back.”(On if Quinn simply needs rest to recover)
“It’s rest and rehab and core strengthening and those kind of things. We’re going to keep an eye on it. He’s encouraged. He wants to come back. He doesn’t have 100 percent of his lower body strength right now.”(On if Zuerlein suffered his injury on Friday)
“He went out to warm up and then as we were kicking field goals there outside on Friday, I noticed that he didn’t look right. I went up to him, asked him how he felt. I asked him if he needed to kick anymore and he said, ‘No, I think I’m done.’ So I just shut it down. Often times you get tight. A kicker will get tight. Then he came in and we examined him. It was more of a concern well after practice, so we shut him down.”(On if Zuerlein’s issue was a pre-existing one)
“It’s reps, it’s a combination of things. Sometimes, unfortunately, it happens to kickers because there’s a lot of twisting and a lot of torqueing that goes on.”(On if Keenum didn’t progress after practicing Wednesday)
“What happened was…as part of the protocol – not to go into too much detail – but there’s testing that goes on. There’s a number of tests that they’re required to take. Then the next phase is the exertion. How does the athlete respond from exertion? That’s increased heart rate, whether it’s bike or whatever it is. The testing got to the point where our doctors felt like it would be okay to let him go out to practice, and not subject him to contact by no means, but see how he is running around. He got some reps on Wednesday and then on Friday, he took a few reps and he was honest with us and said he just doesn’t feel right. So we pulled him out on Friday. At that point, it was very, very unlikely that he’d play in the game. He has to really be back to 100 percent. From what I’ve been told, today was good. We’re going to wait on what he does tomorrow and we’ll see on Wednesday.”(On if he was glad that Keenum was honest with him on Friday)
“Yeah, he was honest with us after the game and Monday and all the way through the week. Again, it was a very unique situation that happened. I don’t need to go back through the chain of events, but we all knew what happened.”(On the reasons behind changing the practice schedule)
“I felt like we needed a day of rest. Instead of working tomorrow afternoon, we just need to rest tomorrow. Pretty simple. It’s not the first time I’ve changed the practice schedule. We change it all of the time. Tomorrow will be their day off. They can rest and recover. We’ll work Wednesday. Normal Wednesday for you guys. Normal Friday for you guys. Thursday will be pretty much more of a walk-thru kind of tempo thing. At this time of year, where you are, it’s hard to practice full speed three days a week. It’s not unusual. I’ve done that before.”(On if he will keep the schedule this way)
“Right now, it’s a one week thing.”(On if he feels like this team has shown enough progress and like he feels he’ll back for a fifth year)
“I’ve been doing this for probably short of 20 years and I’ve never gone into a game or into a season worried about my job security. That would be unfair to the organization and unfair to the players. So, I’m not concerned about that. What I’m concerned about is this week. I know that’s not the answer you guys want to hear, but I’m concerned about this week. We’re 3-0 in the division. We’ve got the division leader coming to town and we’re going to get ready to play. Mathematically, we’re not eliminated. I’m not going to put all of the pressure. We talked to the players today, we’re not going to put this live or die or win or lose situation on this game. We’re going to have fun, we’re going to work, we’re going to prepare and we’re going to get ready to play the Cardinals.”(On how he gets this team focused)
“It’s about avoiding distractions. It’s about believing in yourself and working hard and finding ways to improve. It’s especially difficult on them right now because of the lack of production on offense. But, you look at the tape and there’s potential for big plays in this game. It can show them that, ‘Hey, this is an elite team that we played. This is a playoff team that’s been there for years. They’ve got a Pro Bowl quarterback. Had a couple of things gone differently, the end of the game could’ve been different.’ That’s the perspective that you take. We’ve lost four in a row. They’re not losers. Their effort is outstanding. They’re doing the best they can. We just have to find a way to make some plays.”(On how tough it’s been to having changing parts on the offense almost every game)
“To give you an example, (OL) Garrett (Reynolds), you can’t be more proud of Garrett. He’s played three different positions in four weeks. Garrett Reynolds, he’s playing left guard, he’s playing right guard, he’s starting at right tackle. That’s the mindset that we have. Unfortunately, that’s what we’re going through, but guys are doing the best they can. (G) Cody (Wichmann) comes in, (T) Andrew (Donnal) comes in, he gets hurt. Injuries are a part of this. The offensive line, when you’re rotating guys in and out and counting on guys and developing players and they go down, it’s difficult to overcome. It’s reflected, specifically in our run game. We’re not giving up a lot of sacks by league standards. We’re doing a good job of protecting the quarterback. We gave up one last week or yesterday. They’re working, but I think it’s reflected in our run game, with our interior run game. And that’s why we made the choice to try to get things on the perimeter last week with (WR) Tavon (Austin) and do some things. We couldn’t get things going with (RB) Todd (Gurley). (QB) Nick (Foles) was 10-of-16 at halftime. Because of the rest of the things that happened around us in the game, we had 30 pass attempts in the second half. You’re not going to get your run game going when you’ve got to throw to catch up. Our focus is on improving inside, the interior part of our offensive line, try to get the run game going and keep Todd going.”(On how he thinks the team held up emotionally)
“Emotionally, they were fine.”(On how close of a call it is between quarterbacks Case Keenum and Nick Foles and how far Keenum has come in his eyes)
“He’s come on. He’s really disappointed that he didn’t get to play last week. I don’t buy in to the philosophy where someone’s going to lose their job because they got hurt. Unfortunately, Case had the set of circumstances at the end of the Baltimore game that prevented him from playing last week. Hopefully, he’s going to be back this week and he’ll play. I’m going to give Case a fair shot.”(On what he saw from Foles on the three interceptions)
“First one was a little late. (Bengals S) Reggie (Nelson) did a great job overlapping and read his eyes and just took off and pushed and the ball was deflected right before half. The second one, he was trying to make a play. He was scrambling around. He should not have thrown that ball. Throw the ball in the ground. Get what you can, get down and punt the ball away. Last one, we double moved outside. We double moved at him, ball sailed a little bit inside. He was a little bit late, it sailed inside and the safety made a great play on the ball.”(On how Foles’ confidence is)
“He’s a confident player. He’s confident. Those things are not unsettling to him. He comes back.”(On if the Baltimore game was a week off for Foles mentally)
“No, because as a backup you have to prepare yourself to play and that’s what he did. He prepared himself to play in the Baltimore game.”(On QB Sean Mannion)
“Well, he’s doing everything he can. He’s been in the meetings with the quarterbacks every day since the draft. He got reps during camp. He got to play in preseason games. Once you get in the regular season, your (No.) one’s and (No.) two’s are getting the reps. It’s hard to get your (No.) three reps. (No.) One gets primarily, probably 95 percent of the reps. Your No. 2 gets to work against the defense. Last week because of the circumstances, Sean got a little bit more work against the defense. But, I think when he comes in the game in ‘mop up’ situations like that where the defense declared itself and still six for seven and making good decisions and putting the ball where he’s supposed to, there’s light there and there’s hope there.”(On if you only draft a quarterback in the third round of the NFL draft because you think he’s a potential starter)
“That’s correct, yeah. Not many teams have drafted a quarterback in the third round and started him as a rookie either. It takes time.”(On if he’s ever had an offense that has struggled like the Rams have this season)
“No. It’s a combination of things. We’re going to find our way out of it. We’ve got good players. Got playmakers, we just have to get them the ball.”(On if he has any updates regarding WR Stedman Bailey’s status)
“He’s improving. One thing that was really, really cool…it was really, really emotional was that he obviously had extensive surgery. He was in surgery for over six hours. Then to remove one bullet. There were two wounds to the head, two shots. He was in a medically induced coma for obvious reasons to keep the swelling down in the brain and didn’t know how long that was going to last. His girlfriend texted a picture to some of his teammates yesterday in the locker room of him signing his name on a piece of paper, so got to share that with the team yesterday and it was good news. We don’t have any more information other than he’s recovering. He’s still in intensive care recovering.”(On if the picture Bailey’s girlfriend sent the team was before the game)
“Yes.”(On if there are any updates about the shooting)
“Don’t have any more details on the investigation as far as that is concerned.”(On if he has any updates about the league protocol discussion)
“No. I mean, it was well documented there was a discussion league wide with the trainers. The information was shared there as to what happened. The league’s continuing to look into it and hopefully make some adjustments. I would suspect that those adjustments would involve the medical timeout and the ATC and the calls down to the referee.”(On how the team psyche was today)
“Great. They were good. We had a good meeting. Got things corrected, had a good meeting. They’re looking forward to a day off. I would anticipate most of them are going to be in the building tomorrow and we’ll go Wednesday.”(On if Bailey was serving his suspension in Miami)
“Correct.”(On if he wished Bailey would have been training in St. Louis instead of Miami)
“He was working out down there. He was working out really hard. The unfortunate part about the timing was he had a ticket Wednesday morning to go back to Atlanta to spend Thanksgiving with his mom and then come back here on Friday to resume his training here with us. So, it was just an unfortunate timing situation.”(On if Bailey had talked to him about going to train in Miami and if he was okay with it)
“That was okay, yeah. I trusted him, yeah.”(On how he thought G Demetrius Rhaney played in his first start)
“First start but not first time playing, but he was okay. That was a handful up front. It was a handful. As I said yesterday, one of the things we wanted to stay away from was putting our situations where we had to throw to catch up. So, now they’re rolling off. They’re pass rushing. So, they’re pass rushing, they’re gaming and stunting and doing all that kind of stuff. That was hard on us, but he held up. I thought he held up.”znModeratorMyles Simmons
UPDATE ON STEDMAN BAILEY
Fisher had positive news to share about the wide receiver on Monday.
“His girlfriend texted a picture to some of his teammates yesterday in the locker room of him signing his name on a piece of paper, so got to share that with the team yesterday and it was good news,” Fisher said. “We don’t have any more information other than he’s recovering. He’s still in intensive care recovering.”
The team got the message prior to kickoff, and wide receiver Tavon Austin alluded to the it in his comments after the game.
“I know his girlfriend is telling him [about the game] right now,” Austin said Sunday. “She’s right by his side and she’s telling him play-by-play of how we’re doing. I know that for a fact. So that’s one person we know we still have to ride for.
November 30, 2015 at 10:45 pm in reply to: Peter King on the Bengals game and other Rams stuff #34971znModeratorI do not remember Havenstein playing well.
I think he played well. It’s telling that PFF has him ranked as the 4th best ROT. Some might disagree with the exact ranking, but he’s up there.
November 30, 2015 at 1:45 pm in reply to: Peter King on the Bengals game and other Rams stuff #34943znModeratorHere’s the coaches solution for 4 years running. Saffold! What a nightmare.
I don’t think there’s any coaches control over the OL injury situation.
This can’t be ignored—in 2 years they added 8 young linemen and only 1 (Donnal) had a prior injury history. But 7 of the 8 so far have been injured, including 3 out for the season in the space of 2 games (Brown, Williams, Donnal).
The odds against that are astronomical. It has nothing to do with the coaches.
Meanwhile both Reynolds and Havenstein have played well. Predictably a young line struggled, but there was no way to predict the injury situation in 2015 any more than there was a way to predict it in 2007 (when it was far worse than it is now.)
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