The first post in this thread is from today (2/4). I then merged it with an older thread of a couple of posts about Quinn and surgery etc. The topic is significant enough to bring a couple of different strands together.

I have heard (as someone in this thread says) that some forms of back surgery are less debilitating. I guess next I will try to see if there’s anything out there that actually mentions what kind of surgery he had. Apparently it makes a difference.

Former Rams well represented at Super Bowl 50

Nick Wagoner

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/26579/former-rams-well-represented-at-super-bowl

EARTH CITY, Mo. — The Los Angeles Rams’ 2015 season ended sooner than they would have liked as they went home for the winter following a loss to San Francisco in the finale.

But for some who have spent time in the horns, there’s one more game to play this season and it’s the biggest one of all: Super Bowl 50. The Denver Broncos and Carolina Panthers will meet Sunday for the ultimate prize.

Each team has former Rams dotting the roster and coaching staff. Here’s a look at who they are and the roles they could play in the big game:

Broncos

FS Darian Stewart — Stewart has been battling a knee injury but was back at practice on Wednesday. He’s emerged as a key component in Denver’s secondary and will be needed again as one of the last lines of defense against Carolina quarterback Cam Newton & Co. Stewart signed with the Rams as an undrafted free agent in 2010 and flashed promise with the team but simply couldn’t stay healthy enough to nail down a permanent job. He went to Baltimore before the 2014 season and then signed with Denver before this year. He went on to post his best season and had an interception in the AFC championship game against New England.

Defensive line coach Bill Kollar — One of the most experienced line coaches in the league now in his 26th season coaching defensive linemen, Kollar held the same title for the Rams from 2001-2005. He’s also had stops in Buffalo, Atlanta and Houston, where he worked with Broncos head coach Gary Kubiak. He was known for his loud approach on the practice field. In Denver, he’s done good work this season with the likes of Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson and Sylvester Williams, a group that will need to be on its game Sunday for the Broncos to win.

Assistant receivers coach Marc Lubick — Lubick is in his first year with the Broncos but previously spent time working for Kubiak with the Texans. He’s come a long way from his humble beginnings as a scouting assistant for the Rams, where he worked from 2003-2004. He assists Denver receivers coach Tyke Tolbert in guiding primary Broncos wideouts Demaryius Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders.

Panthers

Receivers coach Ricky Proehl — There’s not a name on this list that would offer better memories to Rams fans than Proehl. He was integral in the team’s pursuit of and victory in Super Bowl XXXIV and made one of the biggest plays in franchise history with his diving touchdown catch in that year’s NFC championship game. The role of unsung hero has carried over to his coaching career. Proehl has been the Panthers’ receivers coach for the past five seasons and this year squeezed every drop out of a group that lost its primary target — Kelvin Benjamin — in the preseason. Carolina will need more of that production from the likes of Ted Ginn Jr., Jericho Cotchery, Corey Brown and Devin Funchess to come away with the world championship.

Offensive line coach John Matsko — Much like Proehl, Matsko has done a lot with a little. He took a group of mostly reclamation projects or unknowns and turned it into a unit that paves the way for the league’s No. 1 offense. That group will get its toughest test yet when the Broncos’ No. 1 defense and pass rush is on the other side. Matsko has 24 years of experience, including leading the Rams’ line from 1999-2005. He coached the group that blocked for the league’s most productive offense for three straight years from 1999-2001.

CB Cortland Finnegan — Finnegan signed with the Rams as a free agent in 2012 but was released after an injury-plagued 2013 season. He went to Miami and retired after the 2014 season only to sign with Carolina after the Panthers secondary was hit hard by injury late in the season. Finnegan had an interception against Seattle in the divisional round and played well against Arizona’s Larry Fitzgerald in the NFC title game. The common assumption is that Finnegan will be targeted plenty by the Broncos but so far in these playoffs he’s answered every challenge thrown his way.

RT Mike Remmers — Rams fans can be forgiven if they don’t remember Remmers’ time with the team. It wasn’t very long and in no way memorable. Remmers spent the first part of the 2014 season on the Rams practice squad before Carolina plucked him and added him to their active roster five games into the year. He quickly became a starter and is now entrenched on the right side of the Panthers’ line. He’s been solid in this postseason but will get the ultimate challenge Sunday as the man charged with slowing down Denver pass-rusher Von Miller. If he can do that, Newton should have plenty of chances to make big plays

Peyton Manning to Rams doesn’t make much sense for either side

Nick Wagoner

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/26544/peyton-manning-to-rams-doesnt-make-much-sense-for-either-side

EARTH CITY, Mo. — If Denver Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning doesn’t want Sunday’s Super Bowl to be his last rodeo, perhaps a move to Rodeo Drive could be his final act.

ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter reported Wednesday that the Rams have had internal discussions about bringing Manning to Los Angeles in 2016. Because Manning is under contract with the Broncos and obviously still has a game to play, the Rams can’t and won’t publicly comment on any potential interest.

Before we dive too far into this topic, it must be noted that the Rams are discussing any and all potential quarterbacks who could make them better. It’d be silly and neglectful if they weren’t, after they finished last in the league in most major passing categories in 2015. So let’s keep in mind that Manning is far from the only name they’re talking about among quarterbacks and, really, every position.

As for why they’d be discussing Manning, who will turn 40 in March, there’s no doubt he would give the Rams plenty of sizzle as they move back to Los Angeles. He has the star power to sell plenty of tickets and jerseys, and he has a long-standing relationship with coach Jeff Fisher. He’d also be an excellent tutor for any quarterback apprentices the Rams would have to back him up.

But that’s about where the upside would end. Such a move just doesn’t make a lot of sense.

The Rams currently have quarterbacks Case Keenum, Nick Foles and Sean Mannion occupying the three spots on the depth chart. For the vast majority of his career, Manning would have been the ultimate upgrade to a group like that. But that Manning isn’t this Manning.

In 2015 he played 10 regular-season games and threw for 2,249 yards, nine touchdowns and 17 interceptions for a passer rating of 67.9. Foles started 11 games and threw for 2,052 yards, seven touchdowns and 10 interceptions for a passer rating of 69.0. Keep in mind those numbers got Foles benched in favor of Keenum, who performed the best of all three with a passer rating of 87.7 in six starts.

Even if you subscribe to the idea that Manning would be a marketing boon for the Rams, it’s not as though they are having trouble moving tickets. They’ve already boasted about the 50,000 or so deposits they’ve taken for season tickets (with each deposit allowed to buy up to eight tickets). What the Rams need at quarterback is a short- and long-term solution that can help them win and thus sustain those ticket sales for years to come.

That solution would ideally come in the form of one person, but it’s hard to see who could be added this offseason to fulfill that need.

This is also a two-way street. Even if whatever internal conversations the Rams had turned serious, there’s not many good reasons for Manning to want to sign with them.

Manning has a great chance to ride into the sunset on a Super Bowl appearance or potentially a Super Bowl win. If he decided to hang on for another go, he’d be going to a team that hasn’t been to the playoffs since 2004 or had a winning record since 2003. He has proved capable of riding a ship led by a dominant defense to this year’s Super Bowl — but he didn’t have to do it in the NFC West. And, for as talented as the Rams are on defense, they aren’t the Broncos, who had the league’s top-ranked defense in 2015.

Beyond that, the Rams have a young offensive line that still has plenty of developmental work to do and a receiver corps with no top options like Demaryius Thomas or Emmanuel Sanders. Manning also isn’t mobile, something Fisher said he wanted when he switched from Foles to Keenum. On Wednesday, Manning told reporters at the Super Bowl that he’s going to need hip replacement surgery at some point. He’s also dealt with serious neck and foot issues in recent years. That doesn’t sound like a guy who needs to be dodging defenders for the Rams.

Through the years, we’ve seen plenty of all-time greats keep playing even after their primes. It’s a right to which they’re entitled. Heck, the Rams have even played a prominent role in such a scenario, employing Joe Namath for a final season in 1977.

But if Manning wants to keep playing, it’d be best for both he and the Rams if he does it somewhere else.

Brandon Allen Senior Bowl Highlights

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/brandon-allen-senior-bowl-highlights/

MOBILE, Ala. – Arkansas quarterback Brandon Allen made the most of his time on the field at the 67th Reese’s Senior Bowl, helping the South squad to a 27-16 win on Saturday. In his two drives in the third quarter, Allen completed 7-of-10 passes for 106 yards.

Allen entered the game at the start of the third quarter with the South leading 17-3 and promptly completed his first two passes for 30 yards. The drive resulted in a field goal and a 20-3 lead with teammate Sebastian Tretola playing right guard.

The final drive of the game for Allen started with four straight completions, highlighted strikes of 32 and 22 yards, respectively. The 32-yard completion down the seam saw Allen step up in the pocket to avoid the pass rush en route to firing a perfectly placed pass.

GO TO LINK TO SEE VIDS

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Cowboys QB Dark Horse: Arkansas Brandon Allen

http://www.scout.com/nfl/cowboys/story/1638401-cowboys-qb-dark-horse-arkansas-brandon-allen

MOBILE, Alabama — With Dallas possessing the fourth overall pick in April’s NFL draft along with questions about aging franchise quarterback Tony Romo’s durability, draftniks have the Cowboys taking a quarterback in the first round. Meet a quarterback Dallas could have their eye on if Jerry Jones and the brain trust decide to use fourth overall to address another position on the team.

Things really clicked for Arkansas quarterback Brandon Allen in his senior year for the Razorbacks. The 23-year-old Fayetteville, Arkansas native went 7/10 for 106 yards in Saturday’s Reese’s Senior Bowl.

“We only had two series, but had a chance to get two scoring drives and had a two-minute drill, threw a couple of nice balls,” Allen said. “Overall, I was pretty happy with it.”

One of the big question marks Allen had to overcome at the Senior Bowl was his hand size, 8.5 inches, the smallest of any of the invited quarterbacks. Allen was set out to prove to NFL scouts that his hand size wouldn’t be a factor playing pro football.

Said Allen: “I think from the weigh-ins one of the question marks was my hand size. I wanted to prove it all week and today that my hand size hadn’t affected me before and it won’t affect me now. I can still spin it with the best of them, and I was hoping to prove that today.”

Allen had a better outing for the South squad than did North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz, who led the North in the first quarter going 6/10 for 50 yards. Still, one game doesn’t “win” the draft for any one player. Whichever among the eight invitees stood atop the quarterback mountain in Mobile would still have to produce more impressive NFL scouting combine showings and pro timing day results to catapult to the head of the draft class.

In other words, junior standouts Jared Goff from Cal and Paxton Lynch from Memphis have yet to arrive to the party. When they do at the NFL scouting combine later this month in Indianapolis, the prospect rankings will be even more jumbled.

If the Cowboys aren’t able to use their fourth overall pick to take a blue-chipper at quarterback, or opt to upgrade another position with that premium pick, and they don’t like the quarterbacks available early in the second round when Dallas picks 34th overall, the Cowboys would consider using a later pick on Allen. Reports indicated the Cowboys took heavy interest in Allen at the East-West Shrine Game on Jan. 23.

CowboysHQ has learned Dallas also interviewed the Hogs quarterback down in Mobile, though Allen was assigned to the South coached by the Jaguars staff.

Coming from Bret Bielema’s pro style offense at Arkansas, Allen believes he wouldn’t have much of a learning curve to overcome to contribute to an NFL squad.

“I think coming from a pro style offense is really going to help me translate well,” said Allen. “A lot of guys nowadays don’t huddle, don’t call plays in the huddle, don’t go under center. I think me being a in a pro style offense will really help my chances of adapting well there. And I think I can throw the ball accurately with a lot of velocity on it. I’ve seen a lot of guys throw the ball accurately. I can throw it just as far and just as strong as those guys.”

If the Cowboys were to take Allen, he would come in immediately and compete with incumbent backup Kellen Moore, veteran Matt Cassel, and practice squader Jameill Showers for a spot on the roster. His smarts, maturity, decisive reads, and accuracy, traits Allen claims he has, would have to elevate to an NFL level to make the team. Taking Allen in the 2016 draft would be Dallas signaling they haven’t found their franchise quarterback, their successor to Romo, but rather another interesting prospect they hope will grow into a competent backup role or trade bait.

For now, Allen will go to Boca Raton, Florida and train with XPE Sports Academy headed up by Tony Villani to work on his speed and keep the arm fresh for the combine. Aside from the drills in Indianapolis, Allen recognizes that acing the meetings is another integral component which he is intent upon proving.

“I think the combine is going to be a lot of what you do in meetings. I want to show how football smart I am. And, again, when I’m out there throwing the ball, they’re going to put in a lot of routes that a lot of NFL guys want to see. And I want to show them I can make all the throws and hand size has never been an issue for me. And along with show them a little bit of athleticism and test well.”

I wanted Rivera back then…but it wouldn’t have worked. IMO all the OL injuries and Bulger’s death by a thousand cuts would have happened anyway. JZ was still handling personnel while he was there, and there were 2 ownership changes ahead of them. He wouldn’t have lasted…the record would have remained poor and he would have taken the hit for it.

Colin Kaepernick wants out of San Francisco, prefers Jets next season: sources

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/colin-kaepernick-49ers-jets-sources-article-1.2518118?utm_content=bufferb347b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=mmehta+twitter

The Jets’ decades-long search for a franchise quarterback could unexpectedly land them one of the most dynamic players in the league.

The Daily News has learned that embattled 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick wants out of San Francisco after a forgettable 2015 that included on-field struggles that resulted in a benching midway through the season and a coaching change after it. The Jets are his preferred destination, according to sources.

The Jets are aware and intrigued by Kaepernick’s desire to play for them, but are still in the early stages of their offseason planning and evaluation, according to sources. They’re also deathly afraid of tampering (see: Darrelle Revis situation, circa 2015).

JETS COULD BE THINKING QB AT NFL DRAFT

General manager Mike Maccagnan and head coach Todd Bowles have expressed their desire to re-sign impending free agent Ryan Fitzpatrick, but nothing is guaranteed. (The Jets and Fitzpatrick’s camp are expected to discuss an extension in the coming weeks).

Although Kaepernick wants to play in New York, he still has five years remaining on a blockbuster $114 million extension signed in 2014 that includes escape hatches for his current employer. The Jets, coming off a 10-win season, would have to trade for Kaepernick or wait until he’s cut.

Colin Kaepernick wants to put the 49ers in the past and start over elsewhere next season, preferably in New York with the Jets.

The 49ers must make a decision to keep, trade or cut Kaepernick before April 1 when his 2016 base salary of $11.9 million becomes guaranteed. San Francisco would save $8.5 million by cutting Kaepernick, who is scheduled to have a $15.9 million cap charge this season.

The possibility of landing the 28-year-old dual-threat signal caller presents an interesting option for the Jets, who still want to bring back Fitzpatrick as a short-term solution at the right price. Kaepernick, however, offers Maccagnan and Bowles the rare opportunity to land a difference-making quarterback entering his prime at a discounted rate.[

from off the net

—

Canuckramsfan

About that January 1980 SBXIV in Pasadena….

I was a rookie Sales Rep, fresh outa the Canadian Navy, with about 500 bucks to my name…oh yeah, and my 1977 VW Scirocco. smiling smiley

Anyway, when Los Ramos shutout the Selmons & Doug Williams down in Tampa, I vowed…”If my Rams are going to SBXIV, then so am I.”
So I booked Friday afternoon as “Out on Sales Calls” with the Office Manager, and “borrowed” the Corporate Hertz Discount Car Rental card from his desk….and with my $199 RoundTrip air ticket in my pocket from long-defunked Western Airlines, snuck down to Vancouver Airport for my flight to LAX…

Of course the newpapers were full of stories how tickets were going for $1000 or $2000 per pair, but despite those media stories I decided to go down to LA “on spec” and decided that if I could not score an affordable ticket I would hang out in the TailGate Party area by the RoseBowl or some Sports Bar….whatever…..the Rams were in the SuperBowl, and I wasn’t going to fooking miss the experience dammit!!!

All I packed was a carry-on Addidas sports bag containing my Rams Jersey, a pair of blue jeans, toiletries…and my Converse All-Stars. I had a total of $200 US Dollars, and a overdrafted MasterCharge Card (pretty sure it was still MasterCHARGE back then eh?)….anyhoo, I get to the Airport Waiting Room, take off my necktie, and go with the Jim Rockford look of weathered tweed sportsjacket, khakis….and my Rams ballcap!!!smiling smiley Not a minute passes and an enthusiastic Insurance guy (and great Rams fan) from Reseda California comes over and we start talking a blue streak about the Rams, our chances of winning, Youngblood’s broken leg, Vinny, Wendell Tyler, Billy Waddy, Cullen Bryant, Hacksaw…..and then the flight is delayed an hour. During that time I got to be quick friends with Ron, the father of three youngsters, who was returning home from burying his father-in-law in northern Washington State, near the Canuck border….hence him flying outa YVR.

Anyway, after some time, Ron asks me some pertinent questions:
1. Where are my seats?
I tell him I only have 220 US Dollars, but I am only looking for ONE seat….so I am not without hope…also I tell him about my Plan B to hang out at the TailGate Party area or hit a local Pasedena sportsbar if I cannot score an affordable RoseBowl ticket.
To say that well-heeled businessman Ron was a tad shocked by my answer would be an understatement.

2. Then the question that led to a 3 decade friendship…..Where are you staying in LA?
I tell him that I have that Corporate Hertz Rental Card, and I plan on renting a Full Size unit….maybe a Ford LTD (remember those land-yachts?) and park near the ocean and sleep in the back seat. I tell him that the Ford LTD Motel is only my Plan B though…..
Plan A is to hit the discos in the LAX Area and “get lucky” with a gal who has an apartment….and lives alone. Did I mention I was right outa the Navy and single??? smiling smiley
Okay, now Ron starts to look at me like I’m Mad Max….and in a very noble gesture, reaches into his pocket and pulls out a business card and writes his home phone number on it….and hiding his scepticism (though not very well) Ron says to me, “listen, if Plan A doesn’t work out at the disco….DO NOT SLEEP AT THE BEACH!! Call me instead, we have room for you at my house!”

So long story short….I end up spending Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights at Ron’s house in Reseda…..I slept in a sleeping bag on the floor of the TV/Family Room and woke up that first Saturday morning to seeing 3 kids aged about 12, 9 and 6, standing there together, staring at this stranger on the floor of their house! After introductions were made and breakfast consumed….Ron was obviously a great dad eh….I drove off to Pasedena to hit some Hotel Lobbies and Ron scoured the local Classifieds looking for a cheap ticket for me. I still remember him sitting at his kitchen table, newpapers strewn all over, coffee cup next to the ashtray, drawing on his Malboro, with his reading glasses focussed on those TicketsForSale ads.

Scoring at the Hilton
Oh yeah, because I knew I had Ron’s number and a place to sleep that weekend, my Hertz rental ended up being a FireEngine Red Firebird…..gee, now I really was Jim Rockford eh!! Anyway, I had a road map of LA, and surrounding area (no GPS in January 1980 guys!) and found my way to the Pasadena Hilton Lobby. After about ten minutes a Hispanic lobby clerk I had spoke to earlier said he knew a guy who worked in the Parking Garage who “might have” an End Zone seat for around 300 bucks. I said I’d talk to his buddy, but it had to be here in the Lobby because I was waiting by one of the PayPhones in the bank of phones for Ron’s call (remember, also NO CellPhones in 1980) so I had called Ron to give him the Phone Number of one of the phones in the middle of that bank of about 20 phones in the Lobby. Meanwhile I made polite subtle enquiries of Hotel guests regarding “any SB tickets for sale?” (a nuisance I did not want to be!).

No luck with my Lobby Trolling and then Ron did call to say the best single ticket he had found so far was $500 and when he called, the guy said it was sold last night already and his phone hadn’t stopped ringing all day”….Ron just said, very sympathetically….but also pretty despairingly….”I’ll keep trying buddy, but it doesn’t look too promising.”

Just as I hung up, and starting thinking that maybe just being at the RoseBowl, out with the TailGaters, hearing the roar of the RoseBowl crowd, live and in person, might be my only option now….
it was about 3:30 PM…..AND
I hear a guy on the phone next to me say, “Yeah, I’m selling BUT I ONLY HAVE A SINGLE TICKET…THAT’S RIGHT…JUST ONE…. and I say to the elder distinguished looking guy,
“Excuse me, but did you say you had a single SuperBowl Ticket to sell??!!”
and he said “yes”….
and I said, “I am only looking for a single….for me….where is the seat located?”
“Well, you’d be sitting with me…my son has a big real estate deal in Phoenix he cannot get out of, so we’d be on about the 10 Yard Line, about halfway up the Bowl.”
My heart is pounding like a jackhammer as I blurt out, as casually as I can manage…”Um, how much were you looking to get for the ticket?
He says, “Well it’s a $30 face value ticket (remember this was 1980 eh!)….so how’s about 50 bucks?”worthy smiley
I thought I was dreaming…….everything had happened in like 20 or 25 seconds of conversation and I was handing over the 50 bucks and he was handing me my ticket to paradise……and we parted saying we’d see each other the next day at the game!!! SuperBowl XIV!!

The BEST moment came when I came back to Ron’s house….he was still at the kitchen table, ashtray full of butts, still poring over newpaper classified. I had bought a case of beer (I knew from the Flight down Ron was a Coors guy) and a few small groceries and put them down on the counter. He looked at me sadly and said, “You know, you can go to your Tailgate deal if you want tomorrow, but you are welcome to stay here and watch the game on TV with us!”
So I just look at him and say, “Yeah, that’s sounds very hospitable Ron……
…..BUT GUESS WHO SCORED IN THE LOBBY OF THE PASADENA HILTON!!!?? as I flung the Ticket across the room at him!
I thought his eyes were going to pop out of his head as he held that ticket looking at it….it was a great moment for a couple of Rams fans.

The game was peopled by a majority of Pittsburgh fans…..why? Because as we found out later, Dominic Frontiere, Georgia’s Hubby Du Jour at the time, stole thousands of SBXIV tickets from the NFL and sold them for cash to Western Pennsylvania Tour Companies and Travel Agents…..turns out Dominic did real jailtime for that and probably found out what the phrase “how’d you like to earn two cigarettes the HARD way sweetheart?” actually meant. Served Dominic right IMHO.

Wendell Tyler was heroic that game. The same way the refs let Bellicheck’s Thugs run roughshod over Faulk, Ike and Holt twenty years later in SB XXXIV….same, same in SB XIV where Pittsburgh hit Tyler out-of-bounds, piled-on, speared him….you name it. Tyler left the game about 4 times with injuries, but kept coming back in. Bradshaw was MVP that game…yet he threw 3 picks….BUT THAT 4TH ONE TO CROMWELL WUDDA CHANGED THE GAME!! Too bad….

When we started the 4th Quarter leading 19-17, the Rams fans in the stands were getting pretty confident….oh yeah, one things Los Ramos did that game was when they switched ends for Quarter Time, our Rams sprinted down as a unit to the other end, just to show Pittsburgh that they weren’t tired, nor intimidated, nor scared of the media darling Steelers. In the end, it took two perfect Bradshaw passes to beat us that 4th Quarter….AND the one TD to Stallworth missed Rod Perry’s ring finger by a micron….damm!!!

I remember the post game statements…..the Steelers were 11.5 point favorites and won by 12, thanks to Rams PK Frank Corral missing the XP after Lawrence DontCallMeLarry! McCutheon’s TD pass to Rod Smith…..anyway, Jack Youngblood after the game, when asked by some dufus talking head how it felt that the Steelers had covered? Youngblood, incensed, but gathered quietly said,
“You should go next door and ask the Steelers if it feels like they won THAT GAME by12 points!!”
Dennis Harrah, his left ear bleeding was crying silently.
Freddie Dryer said, “We left it all on the field. We played our hearts out.”

….and that was good enough for me. I got back to the Office in Vancouver a little late on Monday morning after catching a dawn flight outa LAX….but I had been to the top of the mountain for a Rams fan from remote Canada, had made a new friend in the San Fernando Valley with Ron and his family…..and of course, it took all week for me to get my voice back.

That SBXIV experience was only one of many cherished memories over my nearly half century of following the Guys In The Horns. All those memories combine to form a belief in my mind and heart that being a Rams fan means you belong to a Great Fraternity of Guys who have followed a really truly storied Franchise, through thick and thin, through changing owners, changing coaching regimes, and even changing cities.

The one constant throughout all those changes in coaches and players is our affection (as I channel General Douglas McArthur at his West Point Farewell Speech) for
The Team,
The Team….and,
The Team.

NFL talent evaluators are divided on Robert Griffin III’s future

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/nfl-talent-evaluators-are-divided-on-robert-griffin-iiis-future/2016/02/01/190f0f16-c916-11e5-ae11-57b6aeab993f_story.html

When the Washington Redskins finally release Robert Griffin III, an NFL executive and coach will roll the dice on the Heisman Trophy winner who spent 2015 as a third-string quarterback. But what kind of future Griffin has in store remains unclear.

Over the past two weeks, league executives, scouts and head and assistant coaches offered a range of opinions on Griffin’s prospects. Because Griffin remains under contract with Washington, all spoke on the condition of anonymity so they could freely give their opinions without subjecting their teams to tampering charges.

Of the dozen interviewed for this story, the majority expressed a belief that Griffin is capable of landing a starting role with a new team next season, citing both the lack of sure-fire talent available in this year’s draft and the playmaking ability Griffin showed in 2012, when he was named the offensive rookie of the year.

Others were more skeptical, expressing doubts over Griffin’s ability to stay healthy and saying opponents have figured out what he can and can’t do and thus know how to stop him.

Ultimately, Griffin’s chances at future NFL success hinge on what kind of quarterback he is willing to work to be — and whether he can find a situation that will allow him the opportunity to do so.

‘He can still play’

Griffin hasn’t dazzled since his remarkable 2012 season. Sustained health and consistent play from the pocket have proven elusive. Still, he has shown flashes, observers say, and five of the league insiders — a front-office executive, two coaches and two scouts — believe there is just too much talent there for Griffin not to start for some team in 2016.

Whether it was three 300-yard games to open the 2013 season, or the way he directed the Redskins against Jacksonville before getting hurt in Week 2 of 2014, or the game-winning drive he directed against Philadelphia in Week 16 of that season, Griffin has displayed starting capabilities, the five proponents said.

“Of course he can still play,” an AFC pro scout said. “He can make all the throws; he can run. He’s shown that. It isn’t just on the player. Coaching does come into it. You’ve got to be willing to adapt your system to a player’s strengths. I know he didn’t want to run that anymore, but I think he’s probably been humbled and he’s probably been working to get better. If he finds the right situation, he can be a starter again. For sure.”

Said a pro scout from an NFC team: “There isn’t a quarterback in this draft as talented as RGIII. They’re all developmental guys that will need to hold the clipboard for a few years. Griffin can play right away.”

Any team signing Griffin would do so partially on faith, because he produced just two shaky preseason outings in 2015 and an uneven body of work in 2014. A general manager, asked about Griffin’s prospects, said that his overall body of work, plus the maturity he displayed last season after getting benched, likely will help his chances.

“He has handled himself well this year in a tough situation,” the general manager said. “It’s probably a good thing to be humbled. He’ll go somewhere, get an opportunity and show he can still play. He’s a Heisman Trophy winner, had a great rookie season. That doesn’t just happen. He’s just got to find the right situation.”

‘No. He’s done.’

As another high-ranking talent evaluator from an NFC team points out, there is a graveyard full of the careers of great college quarterbacks who didn’t pan out in the NFL. A slew of heralded prospects have been unable to adjust to the speed of the NFL game and the complexity of its defenses.

Skeptics attribute Griffin’s rookie success to something that can’t be replicated: an element of surprise. He thrived greatly as a rookie partly because of his world-class athleticism, but largely because he directed an offense that Mike Shanahan and Kyle Shanahan — taking cues from Baylor’s playbook — tailored to his strengths.

“He was running a system the league had never seen before. Not on that scale,” an NFC front-office executive said. “They didn’t know how to stop it. But coaches are smart. They did their homework in the offseason, came back the next year, and that element of surprise doesn’t exist anymore. So, RG doesn’t scare them anymore.”

Griffin had his knee reconstructed between the 2012 and 2013 seasons, and an ankle dislocation sidelined him for six weeks in 2014. The injury history prompted one AFC defensive coach who has faced the quarterback to say that regardless of the team that signs Griffin, or the system he plays in, he will not experience sustained success.

“No. He’s done,” he said. “He can’t stay healthy. Running the type of system that he needs to run, his body isn’t able to hold up in the NFL. He can’t play the way he needs to play and stay healthy.”

Another AFC assistant coach said he didn’t see why Griffin couldn’t run a system similar to what Cam Newton runs for Carolina. However, two critics pointed out that Griffin lacks Newton’s body type and durability.

One NFC executive thought it might serve Griffin well to be a backup again next season.

“His problem right now is his accuracy, which is a direct reflection of his bad footwork and mechanics in the pocket,” the NFC executive said. “Although he is fast, he is not the dynamic change-of-direction athlete that many think he is. This offseason should be all about getting back to the basics for him. He’ll be a good backup for someone that can provide a spark off the bench.

“Coming out, you loved his playmaking ability and the touch he showed on his deep ball. You knew that he wasn’t a finished product and that it would be an adjustment for him to learn the different coverage reads and sight adjustments.”

Three big questions

Perhaps the biggest uncertainty about Griffin is his willingness to return to a system that uses him frequently as a runner. He repeatedly said he envisioned himself developing into an Aaron Rodgers-style quarterback who uses his legs to buy himself time to throw.

Griffin and Jay Gruden, the coach who benched him in 2015, agreed that the read option used in small doses can help keep a defense off balance, but both said that heavy doses likely would lead to more injuries.

Mike Shanahan, who was fired at the end of 2013, often said that Griffin needed to learn how to slide and find other ways to protect himself. But Griffin, both as a third- and fourth-year player, didn’t exhibit an ability to do so.

Seeking to limit his risk of injury, Gruden and Griffin agreed that a West Coast offense predicated on timing, short drop-backs and quick releases, was the way to go. But Griffin struggled in those areas, at times confusing three- and five-step drops and holding on to the ball too long.

Because Griffin hasn’t played since the preseason, it is hard to envision him having made significant strides, one coach said. The quarterback routinely remained on the field long after practice to work on his mechanics, but such solo work, and even practice work, differs greatly from game speed.

“As a quarterback, it’s very hard to grow and develop when you’re not getting those game reps,” the coach said. “You really have to take advantage of every opportunity in those practices and treat them like games. But it’s really a challenge because it’s not the same.”

Time on the sideline might have “humbled” Griffin, as the talent evaluators put it, perhaps leaving him more receptive to running an offense similar to Washington’s in 2012. But that leads back to the durability issues.

And so, potential Griffin suitors are left with three big questions: Does he still view himself as a pocket passer rather than a dual-threat quarterback? Has he improved enough to run a pro-style offense with the necessary crisp accuracy and timing? And has he learned how to protect himself to improve his durability?

What has to happen
Even those coaches, scouts and executives who maintained confidence in Griffin expressed that belief with one caveat: Griffin could only excel if he is in the right situation and paired with the right staff that believes in him.

At least five teams — the Cleveland Browns, Houston Texans, New York Jets, Dallas Cowboys and San Francisco 49ers — will likely look to add quarterbacks this offseason. But a job vacancy doesn’t mean an ideal situation.

One coach said Griffin, who might not be released until March 9, can only succeed under a coach who commits to fully overhauling his system to enhance Griffin’s strengths and mask his deficiencies, much like Washington did in 2012. But that coach described such a scenario as highly unlikely.

Some talent evaluators wondered whether Griffin will receive a fair shake on his next team. A study published in October on race and quarterback survival in the NFL concluded that African American quarterbacks, between 2001 and 2009, were twice as likely as white quarterbacks to be benched.

Throughout the 2015 season, fans and media members speculated about whether race was a factor in Griffin’s demotion in favor of Kirk Cousins. That odd quarterback transition began once Griffin was placed in the concussion protocol by the team during the preseason. Those surveyed were split on whether they felt race played a role.

“I don’t see how Griffin couldn’t have done what Cousins did this season,” said one NFC scout, noting that Cousins had better protection under offensive line coach Bill Callahan, who was new to Washington, and benefited from the emergence of tight end Jordan Reed.

Another NFC executive, though, didn’t think that Griffin could have thrown for 4,166 yards and finished fifth in the NFL with a 101.6 passer rating, as did Cousins, who came from a pro-style system at Michigan State. That background, the executive believed, made him a better fit for Gruden’s West Coast offense than did Griffin’s time in a spread/read-option offense at Baylor.

“Hence why the Shanahans adjusted what they usually do to fit his skill set,” the executive said. “RGIII’s main problem is himself and the bad advice that he’s been given. At some point, he has to look in the mirror and take responsibility for himself and stop looking to blame others. It’s time to man up.”

Wherever he lands, Griffin will need to continue to develop his game. Based on his approach during the 2015 season, and according to those who have spoken with him, he appears committed to doing so.

Because of that, even Gruden, who deemed Griffin an ill fit for his system, believes Griffin will exhibit growth at his next destination.

“In the long run, hopefully it’ll make him a better quarterback,” Gruden said. “I know he grew a lot being a third-string quarterback here: different system, different terminology. Things like that were new to him. I think the skill set that he has and he learned from Shanahan, the new stuff that he learned from us, I think that will make him a better quarterback wherever he goes — however it works out for him.”

I see real actual interest in RG3 out there among some Rams fans.

He can’t play. He ain’t an NFL qb. And he’s poison in the locker room.

If anyone is interested in him, post away—I’m all ears. I ain’t gonna fight about it, I just don’t understand the interest. What am I missing?

.

Getting Down to Business

Peter King

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/01/nfl-super-bowl-50-john-elway-broncos-gm-father-jack-elway

Before building the Broncos into a winner, John Elway cut his teeth in player personnel by watching his father. Plus, the Joy of Cam, Marvin Harrison vs. T.O. in Hall of Fame voting, Doug Williams recalls the greatest quarter in Super Bowl history and more from San Francisco as Super Bowl week kicks off
By Peter King

SAN FRANCISCO — So I was out early one morning last week on the east side of New York to walk Lucy the dog (we are caring for my daughter’s 13-year-old Shepherd/Lab mix), and one of the sanitation guys on recycling duty saw me and struck up a conversation about the Super Bowl. “I want Peyton to win it,” he said. “I want to see him ride off into the sunset on top.”

“A lot of people want that,” I said.

“I don’t think he’ll do it,” the guy said. “But if he doesn’t, that’s okay. It’ll be like the passing of the torch to Cam.”

“You just wrote a story for me!” I told him.

Isn’t that the perfect way to sum up the biggest storyline of Super Bowl 50? A great endgame for 39-year-old Peyton Manning, the classic pocket quarterback, or a perfect way for Cam Newton, 26, the new all-around quarterback, to take the world stage. In the 50th Super Bowl, an additional historic element accompanies the narrative, in what is likely the last game of Manning’s life.

There’s a lot of other stuff at play here too: A second Super Bowl win would be needed legacy fodder for Manning; one world title in 17 years leaves him shy of the greats … Ron Rivera trying to join his mentor, Mike Ditka, as one of four men to play in a Super Bowl and coach the winning team in one … Newton trying to join Russell Wilson as the second athlete/quarterback to win the Super Bowl in the last three games—and also cementing his spot alongside Wilson atop the next generation of great quarterbacks … John Elway attempting to be the first Super Bowl MVP turned Super Bowl champion architect … And this one:

Three years ago, if these two quarterbacks met in this game, it might have been advertised as a young David (Newton) versus Goliath (Manning). Now it’s the other way around. Newton is Goliath. Manning is David, sort of. Newton is at the top of the NFL game, throwing and running, and Manning is trying to squeeze one more classic performance (and not turn it over) out of a body that’s been betraying him most of the season. Until September, in every NFL game he’d played, Manning had been The Man. Now he’s The Complementary Man. Life changes.

But I think I speak for members of both defenses—Carolina’s, which has forced nine turnovers in eight playoff quarters, and the Tom Brady-wrecking Denver D—when I say they believe they could well be the stars six nights from now. In fact, I’ll let Broncos cornerback Chris Harris Jr., do the talking.

“Hey,” Harris said, “we’re Goliaths on this defense.”

I’m sure Josh Norman, his Panther counterpart, would say the same thing.

Plenty of Super Bowl 50 fodder to come at The MMQB, today and all week. We’ve got great stuff planned, including from our road trip across America, weaving great Super Bowl tales from Maine to California, some of the best storytelling in the three-season history of our site. (Our crew is in Texas today.)

The Panthers and Broncos hunkered down an hour south of here after arriving Sunday—the Broncos are Santa Clara, 43 miles from San Francisco, and the Panthers are San Jose, 51 miles away. The teams will meet the masses tonight for the first Media Night in Super Bowl history, at 8 p.m. ET at the SAP Center, home of the San Jose Sharks, in downtown San Jose. A quick briefing on the logistics here.

• Denver. The Broncos, who landed in San Jose at 4:45 p.m. PT Sunday, are staying just down the street from Levi’s Stadium, and practicing 14 miles away at Stanford’s practice fields and Stanford Stadium, if desired. They will practice Wednesday, Thursday and Friday at Stanford, and have a walk-through practice on Saturday morning, 11 a.m., at Levi’s Stadium, as is their normal custom. They’ll meet the media at their hotel on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday mornings, then be cloistered after that until Sunday.

• Carolina. The Panthers landed in San Jose shortly after the Broncos. They are bunking in downtown San Jose and practicing nearby, at the San Jose State University practice fields—the same site the Ravens used this year when they stayed in the Bay Area on the occasion of back-to-back western games. The team will use the Spartans’ facilities, including the weight room and trainers’ room, for about five hours each day. Same thing as Denver on the media plans, and the post-Thursday cloistering. The Panthers will hold their Saturday walk-through at Levi’s Stadium at 1 p.m.

• NFL crappola. The NFL and most of the press will be HQ’d in downtown San Francisco. NFL Honors, the annual league awards show, will originate from downtown on Saturday, as will the annual Pro Football Hall of Fame voting, also on Saturday.

Now on to the normal Monday business of MMQB, starting with one of Stanford’s famous alums, going home this week.

* * *

The story of John Elway, architect.

There haven’t been a lot of superstar players who built championship teams. Jerry West with the Lakers, Ozzie Newsome with the Ravens … who else? Larry Bird couldn’t do it. Michael Jordan couldn’t. Elway just might be able to. This is the second time in his five seasons running the franchise that Denver’s been in a Super Bowl. Since 2012, the Broncos have the best record in football, and 21 of the 22 starters have arrived under Elway’s watch, which began in 2011.

Amazing when you think about it. West and Newsome might be it. Elway’s trying to join the championship crowd. If he does, it just might then be only West and Elway who won at least one world title as players, made the Hall of Fame, and constructed world championship teams. We really might be seeing something special if Denver wins.

But what’s the thing you almost always hear from players of the past 20 or 30 years, in all sports, when the subject of coaching or scouting or managing or general-managing comes up. No way I’m putting in all that time. Fourteen-hour days? Not happening.

Then there’s Elway, son of a coach, for a while. Son of a scout, for a while. Son of a director of pro personnel, for a while. He saw the business, and, in a strange, ironic twist of fate, spent most of the last month of Jack Elway’s life with him learning that business. John Elway had no idea that would train him for the life he’s living right now.

“My first introduction to this life,” Elway said in Denver the other day, “came in 2001, when I sat in with my Dad, who was the Broncos’ pro personnel director, for a month of pre-draft meetings. Mike Shahanan let me sit in on the meetings. I had sold my car dealers to AutoNation, and I was looking to figure out what I might want to do.

That month was a great bonding time for me and my dad, hours and hours of meetings, and a great learning experience for me. I remember this lesson from him: Teams are 80 percent players, and 20 percent coaches. He taught me how important athleticism was, and how important competitive drive was. In that draft, I’ll never forget—he loved Drew Brees. He had that competitive fire. And now look at him. That really was a great month for me.”

Recalled Shanahan: “Jack Elway was always excellent in those meetings. He really had a sense for players. And so for John, who was always around that life, and very close to his Dad, it was a perfect scenario if you want to grow up to be a GM.”

The meetings ended, and Jack Elway went home to Palm Springs, where he planned to retire after that 2001 draft. Then, on April 15, a week before the draft, Jack Elway died of a heart attack at his home. “I don’t know if it was meant to be,” John Elway said, “but I am so grateful I got to spend that time with my dad before he passed.”

Elway cut his teeth in Arena Football, running the Colorado Crush (with 25-man rosters) from 2003 to ’08. When Elway was asked by owner Pat Bowlen to run the football side of the Broncos in 2011, Elway accepted, and he remembered some of those lessons from his dad. Draft speed. Look for guys who love football. And, of course, get a quarterback.

Would Manning have come to Denver had Elway not been running the show? I have my doubts, but we’ll never know. Elway’s first draft pick was Von Miller. In his first big free-agency season, 2013, Elway signed DeMarcus Ware, Aqib Talib and T.J. Ward, all impact players on the current strong defense. Some Elwayisms:

• “We don’t draft All-Pros. We develop All-Pros.”

• “Speed kills. But not 40 speed. Play speed. A guy’s 40 speed might be 4.8, but look at his instincts and how he reacts to plays—that might get his true speed down to 4.6.”

• “My priority is getting guys with desire and a real heart for football. Chris Harris Jr., came in here undrafted. [The college free-agent from Kansas was the final signee before training camp in 2011 for Elway, for a $2,000 bonus.] He comes in, and right away he’s first in line in every drill. His character, his football traits, turned out to be so strong.”

• “We cherish the bottom of the draft. We cannot afford to miss a draft, because we want to be good for a long time here, and teams that are good for a long time do not miss drafts.”

“They just told me to come in here and compete and I’d have a chance,” said Harris. “They were right. I was the 11th cornerback out of 11 on the depth chart. That’s one of the things I’ve liked about being here—it doesn’t matter who you are. They bring in a ton of undrafted guys, late-round guys. If you’re the best, he [Elway] will keep you.”

The Broncos, under Elway, have tried to not have hard-and-fast personnel rules. Denver went wild in free agency in 2013 but not in any other year. The Broncos like to bottom-feed for players, and if you’re on the camp roster, you’ve got a legit chance to make it. Linebacker Brandon Marshall was cut by Jacksonville three times, but he’s slid into an important starting role for Denver—and it was Marshall covering swift New England back James White on many of White’s 16 targets from Tom Brady (only five of them completed) in the AFC title game last week. Sixth-round linebacker Danny Trevathan has become a vital sideline-to-sideline player.

There’s one other thing Elway has learned. It’s something that was reinforced last summer, when he went to Peyton Manning and told him he was going to have to take a $4-million pay cut. Yes, the quarterback who was Denver’s lifeline back in 2012, who was the key to being in contention every year—a big paycut. That ended up allowing Denver to sign a starting guard before the season, Evan Mathis, and Manning has since made back $2 million of it, by winning the AFC title game.

(The other $2 million will come back to Manning if Denver wins the Super Bowl.) But it was no easy thing. “I don’t get too close to the players,” Elway said. “Because I know I might have to make tough decisions, I know I can’t be their best friend. I’ve got to be the bad guy at times. If it’s best for the Denver Broncos, I don’t worry about personal feelings. I can’t.”

Shanahan wanted to illustrate Elway’s feelings about winning. So he said he was going to tell a story he has never told before. In 1993, after Shanahan’s first year on the San Francisco coaching staff, Bowlen offered him the Denver head-coaching job. But they were $150,000 per year in salary and a company car apart from Shanahan’s bottom line, and Shanahan was holding firm. Elway found out.

Elway said he’d pay him the $150,000 a year, and he’d provide the car Shanahan wanted. “You’re coming,” Elway said. Shanahan felt he couldn’t do that. He couldn’t have the quarterback paying part of his compensation. So Shanahan stayed in San Francisco. Wade Phillips coached the team for two years, then Bowlen got Shanahan to come, finally, in 1995.

“John didn’t talk to me for a year,” Shanahan said.

I gave Elway a chance to puff his chest a little about having the best winning percentage in football over the past four years, and taking his team to the Super Bowl twice in that time. He said he was proud, yes, of competing for the title every year. But he built this team to win, and he made it clear the job’s not done. Of course, Elway was the quarterback on three Denver Super Bowl teams that lost in the Super Bowl, before he won his final two. Getting to the Big One is good. It’s just not good enough. It might be corny. But it’s certainly how Elway feels.

Said Shanahan, “John knows this more than anybody: Nobody cares who finishes second.”

* * *

Can unbridled joy be unsportsmanlike?

Three stories you’ll be sick of by game time Sunday:

• Win one for Peyton.

• Cam Newton revolutionizing the quarterback position.

• The Cam Newton Joy Referendum.

I’ll say what I’ve said several times this year: At a time in NFL history when there is so much to criticize, and when the concussion/head-trauma issue is such a lightning rod that tens of thousands of parents across the country are weighing whether to let their children play football, here comes a man who exudes joy on the field 10, 15, 20 times a game. He smiles, he gestures, he poses, he hands footballs to small children and makes their days. (Years, in many cases.)

So I not only don’t have a problem with it. I like it. I know there is a divide on this. I get it. Some people feel it’s showing up the opposition. In a traditional way, maybe it is. When I coached girls softball, I would not have wanted my girls to celebrate by stopping on the field after a great play and pretending to be Superman. If other teams did it to us, I’d have been ticked off. So I realize there’s a disconnect here. I just find it hard to think what Newton does is bush. It’s joyous.

Newton is a player who does everything right inside his team. He studies the game and has the kind of relationship with offensive coordinator Mike Shula that Shula freely, every week, adds and subtracts to the gameplan based on what Newton tells him he likes and doesn’t like. The trust between them isn’t phony. He is so on top of his game that—and this is the first time I remember seeing this—he drew Washington defensive lineman offside on consecutive plays in November.

How will a defense as aggressive and impactful as Denver’s defense play it when, as he did also against Washington, Newton goes under center, takes the snap, fakes a quick sideline throw to Ted Ginn, holds the defense with a play-action fake to Jonathan Stewart, stares briefly at Greg Olsen on a short curl over the middle, then rips a throw to the right sideline to rookie Devin Funchess for a gain of 11? I only mention those examples to show you this isn’t a hey-look-at-me guy who doesn’t back up his bravado with homework and preparation and practiced skill.

As Shula told me a few weeks ago: “Sometimes, I think we need to remind ourselves that football is fun, and when we have fun and we’re winning, we’re happy. I would never want to change his personality.”

Good for him.