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znModeratorLet’s trade Foles back to Philly.
Trade Foles for Bradford.
znModeratorI ask myself if we have the right coaches to develop either Goff or Wentz into a franchise quarterback. Does our coaching staff and scheme fit one better than the other? Can our coaching staff modify their coaching technique or our scheme to maximize the abilities of these two players?
IMO? Coaches are fine. Both qbs have to adapt, and in both cases the coaches know how to tilt the offense in the direction of each qbs strengths.
They went 7-9 last year with a young plus injured OL, a melted down Foles, no one at receiver, then Keenum playing in a play action scheme after having played in a shotgun spread his entire college career (last year CK played under center twice as much as he did in Houston in 2013).
All that tells me this offensive coaching staff will do just fine.
The way I see it, the offense will be the traditional power running, ball control passing, play action offense that sets up big plays. Within that, they will make it fit Goff’s strengths if it’s him (which it probably will be) and they will make it fit Wentz’s strengths if it’s him.
See to me the issues on offense were always injuries, missing qbs, and execution (which itself was an issue because of all the youth and replacements and starting back-ups etc.)
I never doubted the offensive coaching. And if anything they seem to be in the process of fine-tuning it (new TE and WR coach).
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znModeratorAdam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Eagles have been informed Sam Bradford wants to be traded and he will not be showing up for their off-season program any longer, per source.
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Ag and I both posted this, then each saw the other did so each deleted our own, then I saw that it wasn’t here at all…so here it is again.
That’s how we do things here. Sheer improvisation and adapting.
It’s an anarchist utopia. In the best sense of that.
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znModeratorOh…NFL teams? Huh. I thought maybe some Arena teams were looking.
Teams really are desperate.
He did have 2 good years after an initial rookie year.
My bet is that if 2015 had happened to Foles on another team and not the Rams, there are Rams fans and Rams execs both considering a low pick trade for him.
It wouldn’t be the first time a guy didn’t look right one place but bounced and landed right, if that happens.
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znModeratorI mean his policies are exactly the same as Naders.
So why did so many more support Bernie?I;m not sure their policies ARE the same.
Either way, Sanders is a genuine statesmen and leader. Nader was the pale empty face in front of some positions. Sanders challenged the machine from within. Nader ran a quixotic empty campaign that just managed to put a republican in office.
znModeratorIf Goff is the pick, I will just have to hope he does well.
Personally, I am much more on the Goff wagon than you are.
Not enough to get into a Warner/Bulger, Suh/Bradford war over it (not that you would but there are those who would).
It’s just where I stand at the moment.
April 25, 2016 at 12:30 am in reply to: interesting old article…Benoit, "Jared Goff Projects to Stardom" #42559znModeratorhopefully he’s a pay attention to detail type and continues to refine these skills.
His coaches talk about how he fixes things by working on them. It’s a trait of his.
April 24, 2016 at 9:55 pm in reply to: from around the net… on Goff/Wentz (a must read thread tho long) #42553znModeratori don’t know exactly how true that is about the ypa, but my impression is goff is not just a guy who throws screens and short passes.
I agree. Yes a good ypa is a good sign. I just wish I could explore around and see what it’s based on. I have the same impression about it all that you do, but I would like to see what the numbers say too. Just a habit I have and unfortunately it has been frustrated by not knowing how/where to find those kinds of college splits.
April 24, 2016 at 9:53 pm in reply to: interesting old article…Benoit, "Jared Goff Projects to Stardom" #42552znModeratorGoff checks all the boxes on this sheet. He steps and slides effortlessly behind his offensive line. His throwing mechanics do not waiver, regardless of how much movement precedes them. Because of this, Goff …is also proficient throwing outside the pocket, be it moving to his left or right.
That puts that well. You can see all that if you watch him.
znModeratorWell its not “complete and utter BS” as demonstrated in the column. You completely miss the point. There are flawed studies that only become published because peer review failed.
Well actually, I did get the point. And it’s simple…there are flawed studies because there always are, as part of the process of scientific discussion. Everything for example said about the “steady state” theory of the universe before the big bang theory emerged was more than flawed, it was dead wrong—at least in this sense: in the end “steady state” theory could not account for the wide range of evidence that kept coming in, while its rival views did do so much more successfully. Science is a discussion, not a series of simple truths.
There are always some flawed studies because there are always competing views testing and pushing the consensus, and as time goes on, some work and some don’t.
The idea that there’s this universal simple unitary thing called Big Science and that it is ALL called into question is, frankly, absurd. Paleontologists in China owe nothing because a geographer in Chile made a claim in print that did not hold up.
It always was and always will be a long discussion with people correcting each other, disagreeing, bringing in new information and viewpoints, challenging old assumptions, making claims that can be dated within months and then trying over.
That just means it’s doing what it’s supposed to do.
And this strange idea you have that there’s this “conformity of belief” among scientists all over the world just tells me you probably don’t know any scientists. It’s just the kind of fiction a funded article like that would come up with. I do know scientists, I was raised by them and have always had scientists among my family, friends and colleagues (including my daughter). It always looks different when you actually know the thing. Science is one big noisy, multi-faceted ongoing argument. I have seen that process at work my whole life. The “they’re all the same” routines, it seems to me, comes from motivated outsiders with agendas. It’s not a real picture of actual science.
April 24, 2016 at 7:13 pm in reply to: from around the net… on Goff/Wentz (a must read thread tho long) #42547znModeratorone thing i like about goff is his ypa which was 8.9 last year
You know I looked and I couldn’t find any splits that would tell me what percentage of his total attempts were short, long, or medium.
I can find those stats on pro qbs, not college qbs.
znModeratorSanders beats Trump, and Sanders and Nader are not the same thing.
For the record I was never big on Nader btw. And said so in these forums.
znModeratorI moved some posts from here to this thread:
qbs in the draft: Goff & Wentz
link: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/qbs-in-the-draft-goff-wents/
znModeratorMichael Silver of NFL Media Group joins Rich Eisen to talk NFL. He says every team who wants a QB thinks the same thing about who the Rams will pick: Goff. If Goff had been there at #2, the Browns would be taking him, once the Rams made the trade they moved out of the spot because they didn’t feel as strongly about Wentz.
Silver Talks Rams at 6:15
April 24, 2016 at 11:59 am in reply to: from around the net… on Goff/Wentz (a must read thread tho long) #42533znModeratorMannion had a 40 on the wondelic, too, best in his clas
Okay, sure, they can play football, but can they clearly explain the particle physics of mass.
If they could it would be an advantage, because they could then demonstrate that what LOOKED like an incompletion was, in an alternative universe, a TD pass.
Big advantage!
znModeratorfrom off the net, no source/link for the quotation given in the original
=
max
Waldman is an obsessive genius. I realize his focus is on fantasy football but the amount of detail and analysis he shows is most impressive. Waldman is a modern day Joel Buchsbaum. He lives and breathes player analysis.
Waldman
A related criticism is Goff’s jittery feet. If examined with
some level of nuance, linking a quarterback’s flaws to
jittery footwork can lead to overanalysis. I believe this is
often the case with Goff’s more ardent critics.If overall footwork is a language, the pace or stillness of
the footwork is a lot like the energy or smoothness of the
communication. There are extremes of energy or
smoothness that can hurt overall expression, but this is
not the case with Goff.The jitters in Goff’s footwork are a by-product of the
nervous energy that comes from thinking fast. Peyton
Manning had the same issue and it’s often about the
body trying to keep up with a fast-processing mind. In a
simplistic way, a quarterback’s jittery feet are a form of
mild stuttering (the IQ of an average stutterer is 14 points
higher than the national average) where their minds are
processing faster than their bodies can keep up.Goff’s feet may stammer a word here and there, or make
small adjustments mid-statement, but the quality of his
communication is excellent. Goff executes one-, three-,
and five-step drops and he’s especially good at cutting
short the length of his dropbacks or even accelerating his
pace to adjust to any pressure that interferes with the
offense’s original plan. He’s also excellent at adjusting his
feet when his first route doesn’t come open so he’s in
position to make a sound throw to the next target in his
progression. This sounds basic, but as you’ll read in
subsquent profiles, many good prospects struggle with
footwork.znModeratorThis NFL draft wasn’t going to be all about the quarterbacks. But now it is.
Mark Maske
This NFL draft was not necessarily supposed to be all about the quarterbacks. It is one year after the eagerly anticipated pro-football arrivals of Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota led to them being selected first and second overall in the 2015 draft, and this is a quarterback class without anything resembling that kind of star wattage.
But in today’s pass-happy NFL, it is always about the quarterbacks. Any franchise that doesn’t have a highly productive passer is in a constant, ever-more-desperate search to get one. Even with no former Heisman Trophy winners or celebrated quarterbacks adored by the football-watching public in the mix, and even with the Denver Broncos having just demonstrated to the rest of the league that a defense-first approach still can win a Super Bowl, it will be all about the quarterbacks Thursday night when the draft gets under way with its opening round.
Quarterbacks Jared Goff of Cal and Carson Wentz of North Dakota State widely are expected to be chosen with the top two picks after the Los Angeles Rams and Philadelphia Eagles made blockbuster deals to trade up to obtain those selections.
[The Rams made a reverse-RG3 trade and now must hope that Jared Goff or Carson Wentz is really, really good]
What remains up for debate is whether Goff and Wentz have sufficient promise as would-be NFL franchise quarterbacks to justify that lofty draft status and the maneuvers made by teams to be in position to get them, or if it all merely reflects how dire the circumstances are for the sport’s quarterback-deprived franchises.
“I took a lot of abuse a month or two ago for saying that I thought Wentz and Goff were every bit in the conversation with last year’s Mariota and Winston,” said Mike Mayock, a draft analyst for NFL Network. “And I still believe it. And apparently two other NFL teams do if they’re willing to give up that kind of firepower to move up and get those guys.”
Not everyone necessarily agrees.
“There’s no question this was driven by the needs at quarterback,” a front-office executive with one NFL team said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he did not want to comment publicly on players headed to other franchises. “These players [Goff and Wentz] are not quite on par with the two quarterbacks at the top last year.”
The prospect of being certain to get either Wentz or Goff was not enough to convince the Cleveland Browns, who have had 24 starters at quarterback since 1999, to keep the No. 2 pick. They traded it Wednesday to the Eagles for a handsome package of draft choices, a week after the Tennessee Titans agreed to send the top selection to the Rams. So the Browns will have to hope their quarterback of the future emerges from among the recently signed Robert Griffin III or a rookie chosen either with the No. 8 pick or later.
“Everybody keeps talking about two of the best quarterbacks in the draft,” Browns Coach Hue Jackson said at a news conference last week. “No one knows that, right? No one really knows that. We will see how it all unfolds here in two or three years and see if we were right or wrong.”
If the Titans, who selected Mariota second overall last year, had retained the top pick, they would have chosen from among a group of prospects that includes Mississippi tackle Laremy Tunsil, Florida State defensive back Jalen Ramsey and Ohio State pass rusher Joey Bosa. Tunsil probably would have been the selection. So it was not until recent weeks, with the trades, that this became viewed as a draft in which quarterbacks would be selected first and second.
Goff, who once played as a freshman on a Cal team that went 1-11, and Wentz, who played at a Football Championship Subdivision (formerly known as Division I-AA) school and missed much of last season because of a broken wrist, have comparatively low public profiles. Even Mayock said he was unfamiliar with Wentz before doing his pre-draft homework beginning in October and November.
“I’d never even heard of him,” Mayock said. “He was just a name on my quarterback list. The first guy I looked at was Goff. When I got done four games of Goff, I said, ‘I think this is gonna be my first guy. This is gonna be my top quarterback.’ I liked everything about Jared Goff. I thought he was a top-10 pick in just about any draft.
“About a week later, I put in the first tape of Carson Wentz. And it was against Northern Iowa, and I remember it like it was yesterday. I was like, ‘Holy crap, that is a great tape. I hope the next one’s as good.’ The next one was as good, as was the next one. So right away I knew we had a first-round quarterback on our hands, and you needed to figure the kid out. The Senior Bowl — best quarterback back there. [Scouting] combine — outstanding. The pro day really sold me on the kid because of the way he was with his coaches and teammates, the respect he earned, the intelligence of the kid, the intangibles that help make it. So he’s always been my number one quarterback since back in the fall. He’s crossed off every check mark since.”
The NFL is a copycat league, and the Broncos just made a run to a Super Bowl triumph powered by a dominating defense that more than compensated for less-than-overwhelming passing production by quarterbacks Peyton Manning and Brock Osweiler.
[Peyton Manning had among the worst seasons ever for a Super Bowl starting QB]
But that has not influenced other teams to abandon their whatever-it-takes pursuits of prized quarterbacks. It’s how the game is now played: NFL quarterbacks set single-season records last season for highest league-wide completion percentage and passer rating, most touchdown passes and lowest interception percentage.
The Rams sent a king’s ransom of draft picks to the Titans for the No. 1 choice. There is a growing belief within the sport that the Rams are targeting Goff and the Eagles want Wentz. From there, other quarterback-seeking teams such as the San Francisco 49ers, Browns, New York Jets, Buffalo Bills and Broncos will jockey for position for other prospects such as Paxton Lynch of Memphis, Connor Cook of Michigan State and Christian Hackenberg of Penn State.
“I have five quarterbacks in this draft going in the top 35 picks,” former NFL coach Jon Gruden said. “I think the strength of this draft is at the quarterback position. I just don’t see a lot of drop-back quarterbacks at the college level on the horizon. And there’s so many teams that need them desperately.”
What other choice, some wonder, do teams like the Rams and Eagles have but to do what they’ve done?
“All I know is if you don’t have one of these guys, if you don’t have a quarterback, here’s the pool of quarterbacks in this year’s draft,” said Gruden, now an analyst for ESPN. “And if you have a real good scouting department, you can see who the candidates are gonna be in next year’s draft. And I think when people are looking at this year’s group of quarterbacks, there are several that have the ability to play in this league. And if you don’t get one this year, I hope you have a magic wand to get one next year or the following year’s draft because nothing that happened five years ago is gonna help you right now.”
znModeratorWith quarterback on the way, do Rams have right support in place?
Nick Wagoner
The NFL draft is almost here and the Los Angeles Rams are already making a splash after moving up to the No. 1 overall pick. We’re less than a week away from the draft, which means you have plenty of questions on the topic.
As always, you can find me on Twitter @nwagoner and fire away with any Rams-related questions you might have. Please use hashtag #RamsMail so I can see them.
On to your questions.
Nick Carbaugh @CarbaughNation
Q: Drafting a QB is one thing, but do the Rams have the offensive staff in place to guide a young talent into stardom?@nwagoner: This is a really good question and one we don’t really have an answer for at this point. Clearly, Jeff Fisher is not an offensive coach, and though he gets some credit for what the offense did with Steve McNair in Tennessee, it’s not as if it was his system even if it was his philosophy being employed. Rob Boras is a first-time NFL offensive coordinator (for a full season), quarterbacks coach Chris Weinke is in his second season in that role and Mike Groh is in his first season as the passing-game coach. In other words, the offensive staff that’s most likely to be working directly with the new quarterback is almost wholly unproven in their current roles at this level and certainly with this team. So yeah, it’s fair at this point to leave the jury out on that and/or be skeptical about whether the Rams have the right people in place to get the most out of a quarterback taken No. 1 overall. Of course, if it doesn’t work out and the Rams make a coaching change after the season, that wouldn’t help a young quarterback, either, because he’d be starting over again.
Adding to that, the Rams don’t exactly have a great supporting cast on the field for a quarterback. They have a star in the making at running back in Todd Gurley but otherwise, the offensive line still has a lot of improving to do and the receivers and tight ends are pedestrian. In an ideal world, the players will improve because the coaching staff is doing a good job. But it feels as though it’s asking a lot of all parties for this offense to improve simply by plugging in a quarterback taken No. 1 overall and making a few changes to the coaching staff.
Greg Divers @GDive
Q: Do the #Rams have any plans to draft a TE to replace Jared Cook?
@nwagoner: Put it this way: The Rams are well aware they need to add some bodies at tight end. They tried to do so in free agency by visiting with Zach Miller and making a push for Marcedes Lewis, but they re-signed with Chicago and Jacksonville, respectively. So now the Rams have just three tight ends on the roster in Lance Kendricks, Cory Harkey and Justice Cunningham. That’s not enough bodies for camp and the preseason, so it’s safe to assume they’ll add multiple tight ends through the draft, in undrafted free agency or, more likely, a combination of the two. It’s really more a matter of if there are still good prospects available when the Rams draft in the fourth and sixth rounds. If they like a prospect at tight end, I have little doubt they’ll be eager to grab one.
znModeratorMayock: Goff-Wentz every bit as good as Winston-Mariota
Chase Goodbread
Comparing prospects across different drafts can be tricky business, but the trades of the Rams and Eagles trades into the top two spots of the 2016 NFL Draft bring one such comparison into better focus.
NFL Media draft expert Mike Mayock is sold on top quarterback prospects Jared Goff and Carson Wentz being on equal footing with last year’s first and second overall picks: Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota. And by all accounts, the aforementioned moves will result in Goff and Wentz being selected in the very same slots as their draft predecessors.
“I took a lot of abuse a month or two ago for saying Wentz and Goff were every bit in the conversation with last year’s (top quarterbacks) Mariota and Winston,” Mayock said during a Friday media teleconference. “I still believe it, and apparently two other NFL teams believe it, who were willing to give up that kind of firepower to move up and get those guys.”
Winston and Mariota were certainly far more decorated as college players, both winning the Heisman Trophy and one, Winston, winning a national championship. College accolades don’t make an NFL career, though. For Goff and Wentz, their physical tools will take them only so far at the pro level, and their surrounding talent and fit with their future coaching staffs will complete the picture.
For Winston and Mariota, the picture is still being painted.
They showed great promise as rookies, although both teams finished below .500 and in last place in their respective divisions, which isn’t surprising given that the Buccaneers and Titans acquired them as the two worst teams in the NFL. That won’t be the case for Goff and Wentz, who are expected to land in destinations (Philadelphia and Los Angeles) where they’ll have more talent around them with teams that were initially assigned the Nos. 13 and 15 overall choices
znModeratorHelping Goff make that transition is Ted Tollner, the former USC coach whose son, Bruce, is one of the agents representing the two top quarterbacks.
Interesting.
Multiple people with knowledge of the situation say the NFL has asked the Rams to keep their quarterback choice quiet until the draft, thereby sustaining the drama.
Also interesting, if true.
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April 24, 2016 at 12:57 am in reply to: Teams believe Jared Goff to Rams is a 'done deal,' sources say #42502znModeratori don’t know if this has been posted before but here is goff’s sophomore game against usc.
I would say that was the very definition of “having a rough time.”
znModerator. i just want them to be proficient at the mid range passing game.
I agree with that.
April 23, 2016 at 10:44 pm in reply to: from around the net… on Goff/Wentz (a must read thread tho long) #42494znModeratorand i though bulger’s quick release just meant that cornerbacks couldn’t get a good jump on his pass because the ball got out of his hands so fast. again. i don’t think that’s what that metric is measuring.
Velocity can come from either thing–a quick release or a strong arm.
The metric comes from drills. It doesn’t measure live action. In fact I am not sure anyone can do that. (How do you use a speed gun with film?)
A quick release, like Bulger’s or Marino’s, gives the pass velocity. A strong arm does too. Just looking at the numbers, you can’t determine which thing is accounting most for the velocity.
In terms of on the field play, no one could know…again, the speed gun thing is a drill, it’s not measuring live action.
From what we see in games, though, it’s clear that Goff doesn’t have as strong an arm as Wentz, and that Wentz doesn’t have as quick a release as Goff.
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April 23, 2016 at 9:07 pm in reply to: from around the net… on Goff/Wentz (a must read thread tho long) #42486znModeratorso i don’t know if i’m missing something, but his arm seems to be on par with most nfl prospects.
IMO that’s because an mph metric can’t distinguish between a very quick release and a strong arm.
Goff has a quick release, not all that strong an arm though not a bad one by any means.
Bulger was very similar. Didn’t have a Wentz-strong arm, but had a quick release, and as a result threw a fantastic line-drive deep out.
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April 23, 2016 at 8:36 pm in reply to: from around the net… on Goff/Wentz (a must read thread tho long) #42481znModeratoroff the net
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The Dallas Analysis
Wentz:
Pro’s
-Elite Arm Strength
-Good Accuracy
-Athletic enough to hurt you with his feet
-Size
-Good thrower on the move
– Highly intelligent and a natural leader
-Clutch gamer –> multiple game winning drives and two time champion. This is my favorite part of his game. The guy wins.Cons
– Progressions: I watched the Northern Iowa game and he did not go through multiple progressions ONCE. He picks a target based on the presnap and will force it to him. It worked in Division 2 but it will not at the pro level. This is by far his biggest flaw. However, once he gets out of the pocket, he keeps his eyes downfield and makes progressions. Only when he escapes the pocket though.
– Played against weak talent
– Injury concerns. He was hurt his whole junior season in highschool and broke his wrist in college forcing him to miss over half the season last year
– Will turn 24 in DecemberGoff
Pros
– Elite short to mid range accuracy. Still accurate on the deep ball but not elite
– Only 21 years old. People talk about how skinny he is but forget that he will naturally gain another 15 pounds in 2 years.
– Smart
– Goes through multiple progressions very quickly
– Pocket presence. Keeps feet constantly moving in the pocket and feels the rush
– Doesn’t get scared by the pressure. Hes used to getting crushed all game and it doesn’t phase him
– Quick Release. This makes up for not having elite arm strengthCons
– Doesn’t have the most zip on his ball. He is young and still can increase his arm strength.
– Not as vocal as I’d like him to be, but not as quiet as Sam Bradford thank goodness.
– Won’t hurt you with his scrambling ability
– Air Raid offense. Will have to adjust to taking snaps under center
– Didn’t win as many games as I’d like him to. To his defense, his WRs dropped countless passes and his oline and defense sucked. Still, I would have liked to see him come away with more W’s
-Throws off his back foot too oftenConclusion:
Both of these QB’s will be quality starters in the NFL and picking between them is much harder than I thought it would be. To be completely honest, I don’t think I’ll know who I want until Roger Goodell walks up to the podium. I’m that torn between the two
znModeratorif it is goff, do people here think we might see the rams go to a more fast tempo offense like they tried to earlier in bradford’s career? will they try to incorporate some of the air raid offense into their own playbook? did cal use the running backs in the passing game?
Doubt it. Maybe a play here or there, but I think they stick with their play action offense and Goff adapts to it.
znModeratorDunno why.
I’m sorry but as put that’s simply not publishable.
Consider adding a car chase, or a duel to the death between implacable foes stuck together on an iceberg.
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znModeratorPeer review isn’t any good at keeping flawed studies out of major papers, but it can be deadly efficient at silencing heretical views.
That, for example, is complete and utter BS.
Virtually every view we currently accept as consensus on this or that scientific subject once existed as scientific heresy.
And of course flawed studies make it into print…because they make a case that later turns out, cannot hold up.
For example, 30 years ago, anyone who dismissed the idea that black holes are real was flawed, and since then, more and more studies not only reveal their existence but actually study their behavior…to the degree that’s possible with the current technology.
The vast majority of scientific ideas that we know from the late 20th century began as maverick views that only slowly gathered support. And, all of it is STILL undergoing the process of refinement, replacement, scrutiny, and so on.
Honestly, there’s no Big Science Cookie Monster ready to be slain. It’s just this long, long process involving thousands upon thousands of different-minded people.
The only problem I see here is pretending like there IS some Cookie Monster Big Science Thing. Well, no there isn’t. Not even remotely. It just does not reduce to something that simple.
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znModeratorMy own view is lots of things have influenced ‘science’ over
the centuries. Politics, money, power, culture, religion, etc, etc,Well, but see, I think and say the exact same thing all the time.
But what that means is that someone makes this claim that is influenced by say culture and then sooner or later someone comes along and pokes a hole in it. For example, genetic scientists who study the concept of race demonstrate endlessly that 19th century scientific concepts of race have no viable foundation.
Yes many scienTISTS have blind spots, biases, cultural prejudices, religious convictions, and so on. But then (again) sooner or later some others also trained as scientists come along and expose the limitations in those biased ideas. And then THEIR claims undergo the same kind of scrutiny.
Heck it wasn’t until all of human history up to 1929 that anyone knew how the sun produced light and heat. Up till then no idea held up.
So it’s a process. A constantly ongoing one.
I mean if you call all of science taken together one thing, that would probably best be something like a long process of self-correcting, self-modifying debate.
znModeratorWell its an interesting subject, for sure: “big science”
What factors influence ‘science’ and what factors might
cause scientific-conclusions to be wrong ? Its a big subject.w
vScience is a method. In fact it’s a long series of different ways of applying method to different objects of inquiry.
Scientists are almost invariably the first to discover whether or not this or that claim holds up. So they are the first to say what causes a previous scientific conclusion to be wrong. Doing that—ie. testing the validity of previous scientific claims–is fundamentally core to what science does.
That’s because science, unlike a creed or faith, isn’t unitary. It consists of endless trained people whose entire purpose is to disprove claims that do not hold up and replace them with ones that presumably work better (in which case others poke, prod, test, and scrutinize the new claim.)
Usually, to me, the people talking about “science” as this “thing” that “acts a certain way” are not being very scientific. It’s more like they’re talking about something they made up in their heads than the actual operations and practices of actual scientists.
To me there’s just absolutely no such thing as “Big Science.” That’s just this made up thing. There is, however, thousands upon thousands of people doing things as diverse as studying dog cognition and calculating how to use the theory of relatively so that the time in satellites can be aligned with the time on the surface of the planet (otherwise GPSs don’t work). And obviously much, much more.
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