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znModeratorAs a coach, you have to be prepared for everything.
You keep repeating abstract pronouncements about coaches.
Meanwhile, I can’t think of a single team that was 2 deep at right DE, to the point where they could lose a top starter at that spot (like a Dent, Freeney, or Haley) without any effect.
And that’s not even mentioning losing a top CB at the same time.
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znModeratorjust to play devil’s advocate houston is without jj watt who is arguably the best player period in the nfl. and he wasn’t even healthy the three games he did play.
the defense is ranked 6th overall in total yards allowed.
of course you could go off different metrics. on football outsiders houston is ranked 11th overall in dvoa. rams are ranked 14th.
i don’t know what other injuries the texans have suffered compared to the rams.
Who else would they have to be without for it to be equivalent to Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson?
Cause the Rams aren’t missing just one player.
znModeratorCase Keenum wants to finish what he’s started in turning around the offense
Gary Klein
http://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-keenum-20161019-snap-story.html
Rams quarterback Case Keenum likes the surroundings. He’s enjoying the luxurious, sprawling, tree-lined resort where the team is encamped outside the city.
“We’ve got a good pitch here,” Keenum, affecting the appropriate vernacular, said Wednesday after practice on the resort’s field where England’s national rugby team trains.
The Rams just had completed the first day of preparation for Sunday’s game against theNew York Giants at Twickenham Stadium.
Keenum is focused on another kind of finish. The elusive kind. The kind that wins games.
Consider: Last week against the Detroit Lions, Keenum produced perhaps the best statistical performance of his NFL career.
Jeff Fisher said. “The game slowed down for him.”
Said offensive lineman Rodger Saffold: “Nobody knew how well he was doing until after the game…. He didn’t even know it — and he was the one throwing ’em.”
Keenum passed for 321 yards and three touchdowns. He also rushed for a touchdown.
“I thought I gave guys chances to make plays down the field,” he said.
It was all for naught.
Keenum had a pass intercepted with a little more than a minute left, sealing the Rams’ 31-28 defeat.
“I’ve got to — we’ve got to — finish,” Keenum said. “To have the ball in your hands with a chance to tie or win the game with a minute-and-half left, you’ve got to do it in this league.”
“It’s something I want to do and I know I can do and know this team can do.”
The game against the Lions was not the first time Keenum came up short.
In the previous week’s defeat against the Buffalo Bills, the Rams had the ball twice in the final minutes. They went three-and-out and then tried an ill-fated fake punt that led to a Buffalo touchdown and an 11-point lead.
Keenum, 28, had been a career backup until Fisher anointed him the starter going into offseason workouts.
He did not flinch when the Rams traded up to the top of the draft to select quarterbackJared Goff. Keenum played well during the exhibition season and kept his job. And his performance in defeat Sunday quelled some of the calls for the Rams to turn over the offense to Goff immediately.
Keenum is still learning about himself, he said.
“I never want to feel like I’ve arrived or gotten ‘there,’ wherever ‘there’ is,” he said. “I think that’s what all the good ones do — they continue to get better, no matter how much they’ve played or how many games they’ve played or how much experience they have.”
But Keenum would like to add to his resume by leading the Rams to victory with a late-game drive.
“All the great ones, they’re known for never being out of a game,” he said. “That’s definitely something that I want to take pride in.
“No matter what the situation is, I want to be able to go down and score points.”
Getting defensive
It’s been several days — and several thousand miles — since the loss to Detroit, but middle linebacker Alec Ogletree still feels responsible.
So there’s a new goal for the unit he leads.
“Play 10 times better on defense,” he said. “It started with me just talking to the guys and getting everybody’s mind right.
“We’re going to have a different approach this week. It’s the same thing we’ve been doing but we just need to just focus in a lot more and make sure we get back to what we were doing.”
The Giants feature quarterback Eli Manning and receivers Odell Beckham Jr., Sterling Shepard and Victor Cruz.
“They can put up 40 points in a matter of seconds if you’re not careful,” Ogletree said.
Quick hits
Defensive tackle Michael Brockers did not practice because of a thigh injury. Brockers was sidelined against Buffalo because of a hip injury but returned against the Lions and suffered the new injury. Defensive end Robert Quinn (shoulder) was limited…. Former Rams cornerback Janoris Jenkins has two interceptions for the Giants.
znModeratorI would expect next men up, be coached up, and prepared to play well.
So you think there are teams 2 deep when it comes to a top pass-rushing right defensive end?
Name the teams you;ve known through all NFL history that were 2 deep that way. That is they could afford to lose a top pass rushing end because they didn’t lose anything with the next guy up. How many teams have ever been that deep at end? (And that’s not to mention the fact that it’s both a top corner and a top end.)
Because see the issue is, not replacing A player. It’s replacing one of the top players in the league.
Is a team better off with one of the top defensive ends in the league? Cause if not I don’t know why they extended him. Turns out according to you, you can get just as good production for cheaper from your bench.
I keep asking these tough but obvious questions and you keep repeating coaching cliches.
znModeratorWe had them against the 49ers and Buccaneers. What is the excuse?
I;m sorry Jack I hit edit instead of quote and kind of butchered your post there. I straightened it out as best I could.
But to reply to what’s there.
I don’t use the “e” word, Jack. To call someone’s argument an “excuse” is to be disdainful and dismissive.
But back to my bet.
Now unless you claim that with Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson the Rams should never be defeated…which I doubt you would claim…then consider the bet. Do the odds favor them winning more with those 3 or less with those 3?
If you had to choose a game to bet on the Rams, would it be one where they had Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson or one where they didn’t?
I bet I know your answer, since your answer would be reasonable.
So therefore yes, having those 3 out makes a difference.
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znModeratorBut now it’s time to soldier on – like Massey would, zack.
That’s it. Just think about what Massey would do.
….
Massey’s gone?
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From Macbeth, Act IV scene iii
ROSS
Your castle is surprised; your wife and babes
Savagely slaughter’d…MACDUFF
My children too?ROSS
Wife, children, servants, all
That could be found.MACDUFF
And I must be from thence!
My wife kill’d too?ROSS
I have said.MACDUFF
All my pretty ones?
Did you say all? O hell-kite! All?
What, all my pretty chickens and their dam
At one fell swoop?znModeratorHe can’t swat defenders out of the way like Godzilla does fighter jets.
Then what did they draft him for?
Bust.
znModeratorThe defense has been without three of their best players the last couple weeks. They’ll improve when Brockers, Quinn and TruJo are back to health.
Does not matter.
Of course it matters.
If you had to put money down on the Rams but could choose your game, which game would you choose?
One where they had Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson at full speed?
Or one where all 3 were out?
October 19, 2016 at 2:07 am in reply to: Wentz looks pretty good & other gameday observations #55583znModeratorWentz struggles, but this loss is not on him
There were many ways to look at the 27-20 loss to the Redskins, but there could have been two contrary views of how Carson Wentz played in the Eagles’ worst game of this still-young season.
It could be said that the quarterback overcame the ineffectiveness of his offensive line, an obscene stretch without possession thanks in part to a woeful defense, and the inability of his receivers to get open downfield to have a workmanlike performance that kept the Eagles battling to the gun.
Or it could be said that Wentz played like a rookie, which, of course, he is after only five games. He allowed early pressure and sacks to rattle him, he threw high of open receivers and he held onto the ball far too long on the Eagles’ last drive when situationally he should have known better.
“I’ve got to be better, especially late in the game,” Wentz said Sunday. “Any time an offense has a chance to win at the end of the game and you come up short, it’s frustrating. I put that on myself.”
It was the second week in a row in which Wentz had the ball in a late-game situation and had the opportunity to either put the Eagles ahead or into a tie, and it was the second week in a row that he failed to rise to the occasion.
On Oct. 9 in Detroit, Wentz threw a deep pass to Nelson Agholor on the Eagles’ first play of their final drive that was intercepted, when a more conservative throw considering the circumstances would have been prudent. It wasn’t an egregious decision, and put into long-term perspective maybe not the wrong one, but it was costly.
And then on Sunday, Wentz advanced the offense into Redskins territory with two minutes to play. But he took consecutive sacks that forced the Eagles to punt on fourth and 24 and he never saw the ball again.
“I respect Coach’s decision,” Wentz said of Doug Pederson’s decision to give the ball back to Washington with 1 minute, 38 seconds left. “At the time I was frustrated, but it was probably the right decision.”
But Wentz had made a number of impressive throws in the fourth quarter that suggested maybe he was capable of pulling off a miracle. After completing just 5 of 11 passes for 54 yards through three quarters, he was 6 of 11 for 125 yards.
“I thought he bounced back and did a nice job,” Pederson said Monday. “He stood in there, he delivered the football, made a couple nice throws on the run [and] out of the pocket. It was unfortunate the one came back on a penalty.”
That pass came in the third quarter and it was the sort of athletic play that had first made Eagles coaches think they had something special in the spring. Wentz escaped the pocket, dodged a defender, and just as he was being hit, floated a pass across his body to Dorial Green-Beckham.
But a block-in-the-back penalty by Wendell Smallwood negated the 38-yard completion.
Wentz was under siege for most of the day. The decision to start Halapoulivaati Vaitai at right tackle had a cumulative effect on both the line and the offense. Pederson had to scheme protection help toward the rookie, and when he didn’t, Vaitai was overmatched against Ryan Kerrigan.
Wentz was sacked on the first play when Kerrigan got around tight end Brent Celek and four plays later when the Redskins outside linebacker bulldozed Vaitai. On the quarterback’s third pass, he rolled outside on a naked bootleg, but there was additional pressure after Vaitai missed his assignment and Wentz’s throw sailed over an open Jordan Matthews.
High throws were a continual problem.
“It didn’t change the way I played,” Wentz said of the early pressure.
He seemed to gain momentum with consecutive completions on the Eagles’ fourth series, but Kerrigan once again blew by Vaitai and sacked Wentz. It essentially killed that drive. The Eagles then went nearly 20 game-time minutes, aside from an end-of-the-half kneel, without a play on offense.
“We weren’t really on the field much,” Wentz said. “It was tough.”
When the Eagles finally got the ball back with 8:40 left in the third quarter, they trailed, 24-14. Vaitai was still left alone to block Kerrigan one-on-one, and a missed assignment by the tackle forced Wentz to dump an incomplete pass to Smallwood.
The Green-Beckham catch-Smallwood penalty occurred on the next play and the backed-up Eagles were eventually forced to punt.
From that point onward, Pederson either left an additional blocker in to help Vaitai or had a running back and tight end chip before his route. It appeared to quell the Redskins rush for a period, and Wentz started hitting receivers down the field from the pocket.
He dropped a 54-yard dime to Matthews on a deep post, he hit Green-Beckham on a 22-yard dig, and he hooked up with tight end Zach Ertz on a 22-yard seam route. But Wentz couldn’t connect with Ertz on a third-down slant at the Redskins 10-yard line with 5:29 left.
“I threw it high,” Wentz said, “and made it hard on him.”
On the Eagles’ ensuing drive, Wentz had maybe his best toss when he side-armed a heave to Agholor for 18 yards on third and 9. But two plays later he was sacked back-to-back.
“I’ve got to get the ball out,” Wentz said. “I can’t take those sacks. That’s definitely on me.”
It wasn’t all on Wentz, of course. His first reads failed to get separation. But he took the heat.
“That’s the type of guy that Carson is,” Pederson said. “He’s hard on himself.”
Wentz was probably more inclined to view his performance with a negative slant. But from this objective lens, while he had his first extended struggles as a pro, he was hardly at fault for the Eagles’ loss.
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znModeratorThings could get heated between Odell Beckham and Rams in London
Odell Beckham is a hot-head with a nasty history against the over-the-edge Rams defense coached by Bountygate mastermind Gregg Williams and sanctioned by holier-than-thou Jeff Fisher.
If Roger Goodell wants to avoid an international incident when the Giants play the Rams on Sunday in London, he needs to encourage Queen Elizabeth to be peacemaker and invite Beckham, Williams, Fisher and the cheap shot Rams players remaining from the ugly brawl game in St. Louis two years ago over to Buckingham Palace for pregame tea and crumpets.
This is a volatile mix of Beckham’s explosive personality and the dirtiest team in the league. Things could get so ugly passports might be revoked. The reputations of Beckham and the Rams have only taken further hits since they last met.
“He’s an outstanding player. He’ll learn. I think he’ll learn because there’s clearly a lack of respect for his opponents at times,” Fisher, who has mastered the art of going no better than 8-8 every year and keeping his job, said after the game two years ago. “He’s a great kid. We spent a lot of time with him prior to last year’s draft. He just needs to settle down and just catch balls and score touchdowns and just play. There were a number of incidents previous to our game where there were spikes at the opponent, spikes on the sideline, intentional forceable straight-arms and things that weren’t called.”
Beckham vs. the Rams late in the 2014 season was the precursor to Beckham vs. Josh Norman late in the 2015 season. This season, the receiver attacked the kicking net during the Washington game the third week and it rebounded to gash his face. Beckham was penalized the next week after he retaliated after an out-of-bounds hit by Minnesota’s Xavier Rhodes, hugged the kicking net after a score in Green Bay even though the Giants were losing by seven with just under three minutes left, then was out of control off the field and unstoppable on the field against the Ravens.
Odell Beckham Jr. and the Rams did not get along so well last time they met. (CHRIS LEE/AP)
He scored on touchdowns of 75 yards in the third quarter and then 66 yards to win the game with less than two minutes remaining. He was The Man. Then he was The Child. He removed his helmet after the second TD, penalizing the Giants for what could have been a game-costing 15 yards, then proposed marriage to the kicking net.I hope they will be happy together.
On Sunday in Detroit, Williams’ defense nearly started a brawl after going against the unwritten rule by playing all-out on the final two plays when the Lions were in the victory formation. Greg Schiano did that against the Giants in 2012 when he was coaching the Bucs — Eli Manning was sent flying on the final play — and infuriated Tom Coughlin.
Last year, after Rams cornerback LaMarcus Joyner hit Vikings quarterback Teddy Bridgewater in the head as he was sliding and caused a concussion, Vikes coach Mike Zimmer said, “If we were on the street, we probably would have had a fight.” He called it a cheap shot and said Williams’ defenses “are all like that.”
Williams was forced to sit out the 2013 season following the Bountygate scandal with the Saints. Fisher had hired him in St. Louis after Sean Payton let him go in New Orleans and before he was suspended. He brought him in as defensive coordinator in 2014, the same position he once held under Fisher in Tennessee. Fisher is the co-chairman of the competition committee, which in recent years has focused on making the game safer, but it’s not the way his team plays. Does Williams have any bounties — not the paper towel — packed for London?
He would never be foolish enough to use that term to his players, but is he above getting his guys worked up about Beckham, to encourage them to intimidate him and emphasize he can be thrown off his game with a couple of chippy hits?
Beckham was a rookie when he faced the Rams in 2014 and it was the first time his antics really angered an opponent. He picked up a taunting penalty after spinning the ball at the feet of safety T.J. McDonald after catching a nine-yard TD in the first quarter. McDonald was later called for taunting when he got in Beckham’s face after hitting him. Beckham finished with eight catches for 148 yards with two TDs, the second an 80-yarder in the third quarter.
Late in the first half of the Giants 37-27 victory, Beckham grabbed a short pass, ran toward the Giants sideline and then out of bounds. Linebacker Alec Ogletree drove him into the turf. Ogletree landed on top and Beckham tried to shove the ball in his face. Ogletree then pushed Beckham in the face when he was still on the ground, sending him crashing onto his back.
“He tried to pick me up and dunk me,” Beckham said after the game. “I just kind of lost my temper for a split second.”
Now, where have we heard that before?
All hell broke loose on the Giants sideline. Damontre Moore and Preston Parker of the Giants and William Hayes of the Rams were ejected. Hayes, Ogletree and McDonald are still with the Rams. Six Giants and three Rams were fined including $10,000 for Beckham, $8,268 for Ogletree and $10,000 for Hayes throwing a punch.
Fisher claimed the next day OBJ had first grabbed Ogletree’s facemask. He placed the blame on Beckham:
Fisher indicated his defense was aggravated with Beckham before the game. “Someone said he came out and said he was going to set an NFL record today against the defense early this morning,” he said. “I was told that. I don’t know.”
znModeratorLosing patience with Robinson.
Yes he was bad on that play. But here’s a different account…though I am not as confident as this guy is that Gurley makes it if he goes left the way the play was designed:
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off the net from Hacksaw_64Even with the cutesy pull of Brown, the play should have been a TD upon review. Gurley for some strange reason decided not to make the correct read and make the cut to his left to follow Brown into the endzone(probably untouched if he makes the cut). Instead he decides to run to the right side smack into the gap Brown just vacated. Not only was there an unblocked defender already in the backfield in that gap waiting, Barnes pushed his guy that direction too, which is actually what we wanted. Why on earth if your going to pull on the goal line are you running to that side? Why even think about taking a step towards that gap? makes no sense.
So it looks like either Gurley didn’t know the play or made a horrible read. Blocking while cutesy was fine if Gurley follows his blocker…
znModeratorGurley seemingly had a hole to his left, with Cory Harkey blocking his man while acting as a fullback and right guard Jamon Brown acting as a pulling guard to create a hole on the left side. But Gurley ran straight ahead, and the penetration came quickly.
I thought that play was on Gurley, myself. Not on the OL.
But then see for yourself.
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znModeratorRams ‘have to move on’ from another tough loss
Alden Gonzalez
LOS ANGELES — By the time Monday came, Jeff Fisher had lost complete track of time.
“Good morning, afternoon or evening,” the Los Angeles Rams’ coach said as he began a conference call with the media.
Fisher’s Rams arrived in an unfamiliar place in an all-too-familiar scenario.
When they touched down in London on Monday morning local time, they were 3-3 for the fourth time in the five years Fisher has been their coach. They were coming off a deflating 31-28 loss to the Detroit Lions, one that saw their stagnant offense awaken and their shorthanded defense fall flat, leaving their entire team in a collective state of distress.
Four of the Rams’ last five games have been decided by six points or less and each of them have basically come down to one final drive.
It’s been a mentally draining experience.
“In this case, you show the positives, especially from an offensive standpoint,” Fisher said. “And that carries over. Our offense believes they’re getting better, and I think the numbers are improving. I don’t really care where we’re ranked and all those kind of things, but the Detroit defense had a hard time stopping our offense. As we did their offense. But I expect our defense to bounce back, as the health factor improves. The encouraging thing for me, in the big picture, is that the offense is making plays, and Case [Keenum] is comfortable. We’re pushing the ball down the field, we’re getting the ball in the end zone, we’re getting the ball to our playmakers.”
The Rams entered Week 6 last in the NFL in yards per game, then accumulated 23 first downs, gained 387 yards from scrimmage and scored four touchdowns on long drives. Keenum at one point completed 19 consecutive passes, setting a new franchise record. Kenny Britt caught seven passes for 136 yards and scored twice. And though Todd Gurley’s numbers once again looked pedestrian — 58 yards on the ground, 39 through the air — he was able to find plenty of holes early on.
The main issue — aside from the late-game interception that sealed a second straight loss — was a shorthanded defense that once again allowed too many big plays.
The Rams didn’t suffer any injuries outside of defensive tackle Michael Brockers, who’s considered day-to-day with an injury that is unrelated to the hip ailment that kept him out in Week 5. Fisher was encouraged by that. The players won’t practice again until Wednesday because Fisher wants to give them time to acclimate to a city that is eight hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time. But the coaches have been game-planning ever since they left Detroit, thinking about how to contain Odell Beckham Jr. and beat the Giants to go into the bye week with a winning record.
E.J. Gaines, who will likely cover Beckham with No. 1 cornerback Trumaine Johnson still nursing an ankle sprain, said the Rams “need to win this next one” because three losses in a row is “definitely unacceptable.”
“You could appreciate the mood in the locker room after the game,” Fisher said. “It was somber, it was filled with disappointment, things like that. But we have to move on.”
Before hanging up the phone, Fisher asked a question for the media members on the other line: “What time is it over there?”
znModeratorI think its worth remembering he’s still really inexperienced. I mean how many actual NFL games has he played? And how many in this system?
I would say yes and no on that.
He was signed as a UDFA in 2012. He started some games in 2013 (his first btw was against the Rams, he came in for Schaub). Interestingly he had a nice long ball even then.
Since that year he started 2 for the Texans in 2014, 5 for the Rams in 2015, and then obviously 6 more.
Systems? He was in Kubiak’s system in 2013 (WCO). He was in Schott’s system in 2014 and then in O’Brien’s back in Houston (Erhard-Perkins). He was then in the Cigz variation of the Schott system in 2015, and now in the Boras variation of the Cigz/Schott offense in 2016.
So he has done the full Bradford Tour.
I would say btw that there is a good chance that the changes Boras put in were enough that everyone was learning, in effect, a new system in 2016. There are all sorts of signs of that, including things players and coaches said. That’s not Canon yet but I think it’s true.
But here’s another thing about Keenum.
In the last several years, quite a few qbs who played in a college Air Raid spread offense have been drafted or signed in the NFL, and so far,… Keenum is the ONLY one who has successfully adapted to the pros.
I would also say that Keenum’s improvement can put to the rest this idea some have that the Rams can’t coach qbs. Keenum’s improvement is obvious and he did not coach himself.
I like brownsugar’s post but he’s a bit too categorical for me in parts. There is more to Keenum than he is seeing. Part of that is because people who look only at measurables really don’t get a good grasp on CK. CK has a knack for maximizing his game through near fanatical film study and just working on it. Yeah all qbs work on stuff but CK is just the type who if you CAN improve something, he WILL. So we know he can’t throw quick line drive medium lasers. BUT think about his dynamic with Tavon. It was a mess and they actually FIXED it.
He also has some improv to his game and some quick thinking and some real-deal field smarts.
This idea that a qb HAS TO throw 11-20 yard darts to be part of a modern offense is just over the top IMO.
What I don’t like about CK is that he’s 50/50 in clutch situations. He’s as likely to come through in that situation (Tampa and Arizona were come from behind wins) as he is to fuck up (Buffalo and Detroit).
All said and done I think the least you can say about CK is that he is probably the best back-up caliber qb the Rams have had. I can’t think of a better one. I of course am not counting starting-caliber qbs who just happened to be #2 on the depth chart (Warner, Bulger, Ferragamo, and for that matter Goff). But a back-up pedigree qb.
If the Rams don’t keep him watch–he will end up on a winning team, including places like Denver or New England.
Not all fans appreciate Keenum, apparently, but you can bet NFL coaches do.
.
znModerator1. It the history of teams moving, only one had a winning record the year after a move. Say what you will, but, moving apparently subtracts from a team being ready. That’s the history.
They didn’t have winning records after the move because they were not good teams in the first place. If the move negatively affected teams they should have worse records the following year right? But that’s not really how it breaks down. There is no significant drop in record other than the 84 colts. They were just a bad team and didn’t have a winning season until 1987.
81 raiders were 7-9 and then went 8-1
83 colts were 7-9 and then were 4-12
87 cards were 7-8 and then were 7-9
94 raiders were 9-7 and then went 8-8
94 rams were 4-12 and then went 7-9
96 browns deactivated ——
96 oilers were 8-8 and then went 8-8There is no leap to a winning record either, with the sole exception of the 81 Raiders. 6 other teams, and you would think at least one could improve to at least a modest winning record in a year? IF that were possible?
YOu left out the Ravens. The Ravens of 96 were the Browns of 95. Same team. They went from 5-11 to 4-12.
znModerator. the lack of depth on defense,
I understand your frustrations but just want to focus on one thing. I can’t think of many defenses that could lose a top-flight DE like Quinn and a top-flight CB like Johnson and have meaningful depth behind those players.
That would suggest, for example, that it’s possible to imagine a team that has TWO good, productive pass-rushing right defensive ends. Most teams, if they have one, are lucky to have that one.
To be honest with you, I can’t remember a single example of a team that was that deep on defense.
For example if the 2001 defense lost Little (who didn’t play on the right but you get my point), who was behind him that would have been provided even a fraction of the same production?
Go through the list of great 4/3 DEs…who was behind Dent? Haley? Freeney? Those guys are rare.
And of course there just aren’t that many top corners of Tru’s caliber…and he was playing lights out before getting hurt.
If you think of all the top corners on the best defenses over the years, if that corner went down, was he replaced by someone as good? Usually not, right?
If the 2001 defense lost both Aeneas and Little, would it be as good?
October 17, 2016 at 9:43 pm in reply to: Fisher says Rams' kneel-down blitz of Lions 'did not come from sideline' #55533znModeratorJeff Fisher said Rams rushing on Lions' kneel-down wasn't a call from the sidelines. He apologized to Jim Caldwell afterwards. pic.twitter.com/Q4QkLcLU6a
— Jack Wang (@thejackwang) October 17, 2016
znModeratorI thought the running game looked just fine in the first half. Havent watched the second half.
w
vOkay. But. Do we have ourselves a theory? Yes? No? Thotz?
Also…Jack called you out in a post below. It’s high noon. Time to face the music. When the going gets tough, the tough use tenderizer.
znModeratorI am now completely convinced of this, even though it wasn’t the running game that improved, it was the passing game.
And yes they were passing against Detroit but still.
They didn’t know the offense, not at the “just play” level anyway, and it hampered everything in the 1st 2 games.
Now of course ironically the defense is caving (largely cause of injuries) so it’s lost re-in-syncness, but nevertheless it’s worth knowing that that’s what it was with the offense.
znModeratorI don’t have a great feeling about this team the next few years. They seem to be in a spot where they will have some roster work to do. Quinn is getting hurt quite a bit lately. And certainly the secondary lost some good pieces this year in Jenkins and Mcleod.
PFF just did an analysis where they said the Rams have one of the best safety duos in the league.
They need depth at CB because of Johnson.
All teams could use another pass rusher.
Meanwhile, in response to your “the glass isn’t even half empty it;s shattered into a thousand pieces in the middle of an apocalyptic drought” view, I would say you’re missing a lot.
USED TO BE we thought the Rams needed receivers. Now, Cooper and Spruce can’t even get on the field because Quick and Britt, it turns out, are that good. The receiver position has not been this good for years.
They have a high-picked qb with a ton of golden promise and his BACK-UP just had one of the best games by a Rams qb in years.
And yes they could add some defensive depth but in the meanwhile will be better when Johnson is back, which is better than saying they have no one at corner.
And I ain’t just being sun-shiney day-glo kool aid man. That’s all just solid basic real stuff.
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znModeratorThe Rams just lost two games they expected to win. It only makes sense that the head coach was going to have something to say to his team using language that he might not want the public to hear.
I think (and I don’t know for a fact) that it had more to do with 2 things in the Detroit game. The dumb defensive penalties, and the chippiness they showed during the Detroit victory kneel.
I don’t think a coach rips into a team for losing when they showed effort.
…
znModeratorNotice the reporter says, only the camera people were kicked out.
That turns out to be wrong btw. The print people didn’t have access either.
znModeratorThe so-called depth the Rams supposedly have along the d-line is overrated. Donald was being double-teamed the entire game and the other defenders couldn’t even sniff the QB. I think the Rams should invest another early pick in a pass rusher. Quinn and Brochers miss too much time with injuries.
It’s Sims. He’s not an outside rusher. But then think about it…how many teams are 2 deep at right DE.
But then they HAVE won games without Quinn.
The issue for me is that they apparently can’t do that well without BOTH Quinn and Johnson.
IMO if Johnson plays yesterday they give up a field goal instead of a TD on at least one of those redzone moments, and win 28-27.
znModeratorBut everyone can see the results. At some point when you have enough data the statistics must mean something.
Actually this is where we differ.
I don’t believe a record is a verdict. I mean it is in terms of standings and who gets to the playoffs, but it’s not an explanation.
Different teams can have the same record for different reasons. I am more interested in the reasons.
AH BUT…reasonable people can disagree on those.
Meanwhile, when it comes to THIS coach, Fisher,there’s no such thing as Fisher diehard. I think everyone who defends him would just shrug and accept a coach change. IF that were even in the cards (which I doubt).
But in terms of the details and minutia, you don’t HAVE TO engage with that. Nothing obligates it. So for example I could demonstrate at length, with pie charts and stats, that no team that has to start a #2 caliber qb while ALSO dealing with an extensively damaged OL can do very well.
And you can always say, fine…I don’t care though. I don’t want Fisher anyway.
I did that in 2007 with Linehan. I said, this is as busted up bad injured as an OL can get, and it’s taking Bulger down with it (who among other things had to play with cracked ribs). And you can’t win like that. But I don’t care. I don’t like Linehan anyway.
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znModeratorTo me, losing Quinn is not just “an injury”.
Its a HUGE injury.I would say Quinn and Johnson at the same time, but, yeah.
To some that’s “excuse making.” I don’t know why but it is. But then folks differ. In contrast, to some that’s just hardcore frank real honest assessment.
znModeratorI must say–reading the boards–there are many Rams fans with incredible patience, and who will point out the various problems this team has that excuse any responsibility for the head coach
See, from a different perspective than yours, no one is doing that.
It’s not excusing anything and asssessment of the HC is real.
The other side of this coin is for someone like me to point out that (using my language here, which I will temporarily indulge, as opposed to your language) that autopilot coach blame is not real assessment. The way I see it, for example, going 7-9 last year with a bad qb (who started out okay but melted down) and a rebuilt, green, and very injured-up OL is a sign of GOOD coaching.
It is not the case that anyone is “excusing” the head coach. We are evaluating him differently. Now the problem here of course is that there’s room for disagreement. So you SEE a mediocre coach repeating a bad situation. I SEE a good coach dealing with tough circumstances. Since you SEE it a certain way, I am making excuses. Since I SEE it a certain way, you are stuck in autopilot coach blame.
Lots of places that leads to dismissive board wars.
Here, it’s supposed to lead to live-and-let-live recognition that people just see things differently.
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znModeratorLoss dampens breakout day for Rams receiver Kenny Britt
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/britt-732353-rams-offense.html
DETROIT – Kenny Britt sat quietly at his locker late Sunday afternoon, his body and head bobbing and weaving, the the music filling his ears from the red headphones he wore.
By all rights Britt had reason to be content after torching the Detroit Lions for 136 yards and two touchdowns on seven catches.
In every way imaginable it was a career day for the eighth-year Rams wide receiver from Rutgers. A day he had every right to enjoy and savor.
But the pained expression on his face told a completely different story.
As good as Britt was Sunday, and he was lethal as the offense way while piling up 387 yards and four touchdowns, it wasn’t enough in a bitter 31-28 loss to the Lions.
Britt should have been soaring to the Rams’ charter flight bound for London, satisfied that he and Case Keenum landed on the same page and the Rams offense was downright productive.
Instead, he quietly made his way to the team bus with all the other disappointed Rams.
“The outcome is everything, regardless of how well the offense played,” Britt said. “It’s all about how we all play together in all three phases. That means defense, special teams and offense.”
The defense could not hold up its end of the bargain, surrendering 10 straight points after Britt carried a slew of Lions across the goal line to put the Rams up 28-21 to begin the fourth quarter.
In the process, it denied Britt and the offense a chance to finally feel good about themselves after spending most of the first five games AWOL. Britt in particular, as he tormented the Lions secondary throughout.
Only to have to downplay the performance afterward out of respect to the final score.
“It’s one of the better games of this year,” he said about his performance. “But I know there are still things that I wanted to take back, like that third down that can get us some points on the board to help us out in that last stretch of the game.”
Said Rams coach Jeff Fisher: “Yeah, Kenny’s practicing hard and, you know, he’s very, very disappointed, you know? Usually those big days turn into wins, but it didn’t. Guys got open and caught the ball offensively. Every week’s a challenge, you know, we’ll push on.”
On the other hand, if it’s a sign of things to come from Britt and Keenum and the offense, at least that is a positive to build on.
“There’s still things you have to, win or lose, there’s going to be stuff that you can get better at,” Keenum said. “I thought we moved the ball well, just not enough. Unfortunately in this game, that’s the only stat that matters.”
Britt knows that as well as anyone.
Even on a career day, he couldn’t feel good about it.
znModeratorNote…my free access to the Times has expired for this month. Could someone follow the link and copy the rest of the article? Put it in this thread and when I can I will combine them.
The Rams will play the New York Giants on Sunday outside London and try to put a complete game together for the first time.
Thanks bnw. I will put that addition into the original post, and delete yours, so there is no confusion.
But I really appreciate it. Each month I get only a few days with the LA Times before I exhaust my quota of free access.
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znModeratorOnce again, a Rams team appears to be going nowhere
By VINCENT BONSIGNORE / STAFF COLUMNIST
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/rams-732347-lions-goal.html#
DETROIT – A slew of buses sat outside Ford Field on Sunday to transport a solemn group of Rams to Detroit Metro Airport. There, a charter plane was awaiting them amid the gray clouds and stillness of a mid-October evening on Michigan’s lower peninsula.
The destination was of no concern. Or significance really.
It doesn’t really matter much.
Six games into their triumphant return home to Los Angeles, it’s becoming painfully and frustratingly clear that all roads and flight patterns lead to the exact same place for the Rams. Head-first into a brick wall separating who they really are from what they aspire to be.
The Rams undoubtedly want to be a real player in the NFL. A complete, balanced group for whom winning is the norm and losing an occasional blip on the screen.
That’s what they want to be.
What they are, we learned once again in a bitterly frustrating 31-28 loss to the Detroit Lions on Sunday, is a team that can’t quite find the right pieces to complete the puzzle. Not consistently, anyway. And after watching them labor ever so taxingly even during their three victories this season, we’d be hard-pressed to remember a moment in which everything was clicking for them at the same time.
t makes you wonder, doesn’t it? Maybe this is who the Rams will always be under Jeff Fisher. Now in his fifth season, he’s yet to lead the Rams to a winning season. And after starting this year 3-1, the Rams are right back where they’ve always been after losing their last two games. Stuck in the quicksand of .500. Flailing away again in no-man’s land.
Maybe that’s just their destiny under Fisher. And why the Rams should not be in a hurry to renew their vows with him when his contract runs out at the end of the season.
“They’re disappointed, as they should be,” Fisher said of the Rams. “I’m disappointed, as I should be. The staff is disappointed. We couldn’t make that play that we needed to.”
How many times can we bear hearing that same tired response?
When can we say is enough is enough of incomplete football and sloppy play and silly penalties and bone-crushing turnovers?
“I’ve been here since 2010, this is my seventh season,” said guard Rodger Saffold, who has seen a whole bunch of losing and misery over those seven years. “I want this team to succeed more than anything. More than myself. So of course this hurts.”
As hard as they try, now matter what they change from players to schemes, the end game always seems the same.
On Sunday it didn’t matter that Case Keenum had a career day with 321 yards passing and three touchdowns and at one point brilliantly completed 19 straight passes.
Or that Kenny Britt turned into Calvin Johnson by grabbing seven passes for 136 yards, including a fiercely fought 9-yard touchdown in which he bull-rushed a group of Lions tacklers over the goal line.
As good as Keenum was, when it came right down to it he threw an ill-advised pass into triple coverage for a game-ending interception.
And as fantastic as Britt was, he wasn’t able to get the ball over the goal line late in the second quarter with the Rams looking to take a touchdown-lead over the Lions into intermission. That led to the Rams going for it on fourth down inches away from the goal line rather than kicking the field goal to take the lead. But Todd Gurley got stuffed behind the line of scrimmage, sending the Rams to the locker room without a score.
The three points they snickered at in favor of going for the touchdown ended up being the winning margin for the Lions.
See how this works out?
Even when things are going good, as they were for Keenum and Britt and an offense that moved up and down the field with ease Sunday, somehow, some way the Rams find a way to shoot themselves in the foot.
“I know that sounds like a broken record from last week, but I mean, we had the ball in our hands with a chance to go win the game and we didn’t,” Keenum said. “That’s frustrating.”
One step forward, two steps back.
Like the defense not being able to drive a stake in the Lions after the offense built a 28-21 at the start of the fourth quarter.
The same defense that has carried the Rams to their three wins was unable to answer the call.
On the touchdown drive the Lions mounted to tie the game, the Rams couldn’t turn the Lions away on four third-down situations. The result was an 8-play, 84-yard drive that ended with Golden Tate hauling in a 23-yard touchdown pass from Matthew Stafford to tie the game at 28-28.
“We can’t get to the quarterback,” Aaron Donald said, shaking his head. “He’s back there all day, passing the ball, making plays.”
And with a chance to get the ball back for the offense – or make a stand and force overtime – the Rams allowed a nine-play 43-yard drive in which Matt Prater kicked a 34-yard field goal to make it 31-28.
“Offense puts 28 points on the board and we couldn’t stop the opponent,” Donald said, disappointedly.
That seems to be the Rams’ reality. It’s why they’ve been mired in mediocrity for years.
They’ll land in London on Monday morning, but the location is of no significance. The Rams find themselves stuck in no man’s land again at .500.
It seems to be their destiny under Fisher.
znModeratorRich Hammond @Rich_Hammond
@JoeMarciano It was their in-house video people, who typically are allowed special access before us regular riff-raff are allowed in. -
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