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znModeratoroff the net from Elvis
I heard Vinny on the radio a few days ago saying watching him in practice, Goff looks much better more decisive, making great throws, etc.
Not sure it’s real or indicative of anything, but he’s saying it too
znModeratorInteresting – they have the Rams offense ranked 21st and the defense ranked 8th. In both cases that’s better than what their stats (yards gained, points scored, etc) says they should be. They must use some nontraditional metric to rank them.
Depends. I have been applying the “last 3 games” rule. It should be 4 games, but the site that does this only does the last 3, so I either go with their numbers or do all the math myself.
According to the “last 3 games” rule, the offense is 19th in yards and 22nd in points. (And quite good in some other areas: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/last-3-games-metric-offense/ ).
Example:
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct
The justification for doing this is that they actually did get better on offense after the 1st 2 games. Therefore, arguably, season-long averages (consisting of 6 games so far) don’t give you the real picture. (Whether this lasts is another story.)
On defense though it’s a different story.
Last 3 games: 21st in yards, 22nd in points. So like you I don’t know where “8th” comes from.
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znModeratorJeff Fisher, Los Angeles Rams regret losing ‘outstanding’ Janoris Jenkins to Giants
For Jeff Fisher, Janoris Jenkins is the one that got away.
Jenkins played for the Rams for his first four seasons in the league, but was lured away to the Giants this offseason by a five-year, $62.5 million deal that included $29 million in guarantees.
“It was a disappointing loss for us,” Fisher said Wednesday, ahead of the game between the Rams and Giants on Sunday. “He’s an outstanding young man, one of my favorites that I’ve ever had an opportunity to coach. With all due respect to the other corners in the league right now, it’s hard to find one that’s playing better than he is.”
Janoris Jenkins’ high expectations match his high-priced deal
“We made every attempt and it’s just one of those things that happens in free agency,” Fisher added. “So I was disappointed. I spoke with him, he wanted to come back, it just didn’t work out; it was out of our control.”Jenkins said it was “hard” to leave the Rams and that he still kept in touch with a bunch of his old teammates there. He said Fisher saying he’s one of the best corners in the league was a “nice compliment.”
“I think I have played good,” Jenkins said. “I can play better. Nothing major, but just keep improving every week.”
And so far, he’s been worth the contract, as Jenkins has played very well to open the year with Big Blue.
znModeratorThis week’s Rams opponent: Giants
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20161019/this-weeks-rams-opponent-giants
The Rams haven’t faced the Giants since December 2014, but they’ll see a few familiar faces this Sunday in London.
New York signed cornerback Janoris Jenkins this offseason, rewarding him with a five-year contract worth up to $62.5 million after he spent the first four years of his career in St. Louis. He has seven passes defensed to go along with two interceptions, and Rams coach Jeff Fisher said Wednesday that the former second-round pick is playing as well as any corner in the league.
That the Giants successfully pried Jenkins away from the Rams — who exercised their franchise tag on Trumaine Johnson — also delayed the arrival of another cornerback.
Coty Sensabaugh arrived in Los Angeles this offseason on a three-year contract worth up to $15 million, and was drawn to the Rams in part because of defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, whom he had played for in Tennessee.
In doing so, Sensabaugh had spurned the Giants, the first team to contact him in free agency. Part of the reason? Jenkins’ presence.
But his stint in Southern California lasted a month into the regular season. The Rams benched Sensabaugh in the middle of his second game, deactivated him for his fourth, and cut him shortly thereafter. That freed him up to join the Giants, who signed him last Tuesday.
“Ironically, I ended up being here,” he told local reporters recently.
WHO’S COACHING THE GIANTS?
Even two Super Bowl rings only buy you so much time.
The Giants forced out Tom Coughlin this past offseason, ending a tenure that produced two championships over 12 years. Despite those thrilling peaks — including an upset of the then-undefeated Patriots in Super Bowl XLII — that span featured just six winning seasons, and ended with back-to-back 6-10 records.
His successor is Ben McAdoo, the 39-year-old who is getting his first shot as a head coach. Promoted after two years as the Giants offensive coordinator, McAdoo provides schematic consistency for quarterback Eli Manning, who is coming off the best statistical season of his 13-year career.
BY THE NUMBERS
35 — TD passes thrown by Manning in 2015, tied for second in the NFL
8 — TD passes thrown by Manning this season, tied for 12th in the NFL
420.3 — Yards per game allowed by the Giants defense in 2015, most in the league
363.7 — Yards per game allowed by the Giants defense this season, 14th-most in the league
114 — Millions of dollars that the Giants guaranteed to four free-agent signings on defense
1 — Sacks by Olivier Vernon, who signed a five-year contract worth up to $85 million
PLAYER TO WATCH
Barring a surprise recovery, the Rams will be without top cornerback Trumaine Johnson for the second week in a row.
That’s particularly worrisome given their looming matchup against Giants receiver Odell Beckham Jr., the two-time Pro Bowler who broke out of a slow-ish start to the season with 222 yards and two touchdowns against the Ravens. But Beckham might not be the Rams’ only concern. New York could very well try to pick on cornerback Troy Hill rather than E.J. Gaines — a tactic that could mean big numbers for Sterling Shepard or Victor Cruz.
Drafted 40th overall out of Oklahoma, Shepard is currently the most targeted rookie receiver in the NFL, and has turned his 26 catches into 302 yards and two scores.
In last week’s 31-28 loss to Detroit, the Rams gave up just 10 receiving yards to Marvin Jones — who entered the game as the league’s leading receiver — but allowed 165 to Golden Tate.
WHAT DID HE SAY?
“I’m sure there’ll be some naps.”
— Manning, on the Giants changing their body clocks before flying to London on Thursday
znModeratorJared Goff to get more practice reps after Week 7
Gregg Rosenthal
LONDON — Case Keenum has played better than anyone could reasonably expect this season, especially last week in Detroit. But that doesn’t mean the Los Angeles Rams have forgotten about their No. 1 overall draft pick.
NFL Network’s Steve Wyche reported on Thursday’s Up to the Minute Live that Goff will begin to get increased practice reps after Sunday’s game against the Giants at Twickenham Stadium in London. Goff has made significant strides in practice since the beginning of the season, and the Rams are more confident he could handle the starting duties if he was asked to play.
Keenum has averaged 9.2 yards-per-attempt over the last three weeks. If he keeps putting up those kinds of numbers and the Rams stay above .500, it’s hard to imagine the team making a change. Keenum’s teammates and coaches have all noted this week that the offense played more than well enough to win last week. But if Keenum were to struggle badly against the Giants, it would no longer be a shock to see Goff get his chance sooner rather than later.
The concept of inserting a No. 1 overall pick into the lineup of a team still in the mix for a playoff spot is not new. The Rams’ opponent Sunday, the New York Giants, once benched Kurt Warner for Eli Manning during the 2004 season. The Giants were 5-4 at the time. The Rams would be 3-4 if they lost Sunday.
The Rams know that a decision to change quarterbacks would mean there is no turning back. Even deciding to give Goff more practice reps is a nod toward thinking about the future.
The Giants wound up losing six of the season’s seven remaining games after making the move to Manning in 2004. They were willing to take some short-term pain to help their franchise quarterback grow.
znModeratorRams hoping plush resort in English countryside proves therapeutic
Bonsignore
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/rams-732595-games-game.html
LONDON – It seems almost fitting the Rams ended up at the sprawling 123-acre Penny Hill Hotel during their week-long stay in England in preparation for their game against the New York Giants on Sunday.
Nestled in a perfectly British park side about an hour outside of London, the elegant, ivy-clad hotel sits amid a thick, woodsy area that provides seclusion and serenity.
Its origins trace back to the early 1600s. Over the years, British dignitaries such as Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Sir Lyndsey Byron Peters KBE have called the impressive main quarters home.
These days, it’s a popular Great British Holiday destination, a plush spa and resort folks retreat to to get away from the hustle and bustle of every day life.
In other words, it’s the perfect place for the Rams to retire to for the next few days to rid themselves of the anger and frustration of a two-game losing streak that threatens to change their status from contender to pretender.
“Being here at Penny Hill has been a great experience for us,” safety T.J. McDonald said.
Maybe even therapeutic.
“We didn’t like the way we played last week,” linebacker Alec Ogletree said. “This week is about putting that behind us and playing better.”
And perhaps in the process, re-discover the mojo that served them so well through a three-game winning streak and their best start to a season in more than a decade.
“Going out there and finishing games,” is how Ogletree summed it up.
The Rams weren’t dominant during their early-season surge, just well timed. Where consistency eluded them, bursts of brilliance saved them. They preserved three straight victories with closing-second heroics, and in doing so created a vibe and positivity that escaped them for years.
“When you don’t know how to finish games you tend to lose a lot of games,” Ogletree said. “Most games are settled by three points or less. If you’re not able to finish games it’s tough to win in this league.
As quickly as the Rams found that ability, it seemingly escaped them.
The tables now tuned, they suffered bitter back-to-back losses to the Buffalo Bills and Detroit Lions.
They played well offensively against the Lions, with career games from Case Keenum and Kenny Britt and more running-game efficiency then at any point this year.
But when it counted most, the Rams offense couldn’t mount a drive to put the Lions away and the defense wasn’t able to protect a 10-point lead.
And they lost a game they played well enough to win.
The resulting chagrin accompanied them across the Atlantic.
“It was a tough flight out here,” McDonald said. “We hold each other to high standards. That wasn’t acceptable to us. We’re definitely refocused and coming out here with a sense of urgency.”
Their ability to undress themselves of the lingering disappointment might be the determining factor in this trip being a tipping point or a much-needed re-boot.
“You definitely don’t want to dwell on it but you also don’t want to forget about it so you don’t let it happen again,” guard Rodger Saffold said. “We learned from it, now we’re moving forward.”
That’s now mandatory rather that obligatory.
The Rams return to California in four days facing a bye week.
The hope two weeks ago was to hit the break backed by a swell of momentum that would carry them through the second half of the season. Maybe to a division title. Or a playoff berth.
The objective now is to reach it walking upright rather than wounded and limping.
To do so, the Rams have to get back to where they were.
“The same thing we’ve been doing, but just focusing more and getting back to what we’ve been doing,” Ogletree said.
Ironic then, it might require traveling 5,500 miles away to find their way back.
But as they returned to the practice field after taking Tuesday off, the Rams appeared ready to put the last two weeks behind them.
“It was a good day to get back out here and get back into the flow of things,” McDonald said. “Just getting back out here on the grass, it feels good.”
McDonald was surrounded by the comforting cover of thick woods, plush green trees and 123 acres of tranquility.
It was wonderfully British. And positively soothing.
And maybe, just maybe, the perfect place for the Rams to discard the dismay and disgruntlement of the last two frustrating weeks.
October 20, 2016 at 8:18 pm in reply to: Quinn expected to play against G-men? & injury updates thru 10/22 #55686znModeratorRams ‘optimistic’ DE Robert Quinn can return Sunday
Alden Gonzalez
ESPN Staff WriterLOS ANGELES — Standout defensive end Robert Quinn was a limited participant in practice on Wednesday and the Los Angeles Rams are “optimistic that he’ll be able to return” for Sunday’s game against the New York Giants, head coach Jeff Fisher told the assembled media from England.
The Rams held practice from the lawn of the Pennyhill Park Hotel outside of London, and Quinn, who missed the last two weeks with what the team called a shoulder injury, was one of only four players to show up on the injury report. Defensive end Will Hayes, who returned Sunday from an ankle injury that kept him out for two weeks, practiced on a limited basis. Cornerback Trumaine Johnson, expected to miss a few more weeks with an ankle sprain, was held out. So was defensive tackle Michael Brockers, who left Sunday’s 31-28 loss to the Detroit Lions early.
Brockers was initially diagnosed with a hip injury, the same one that kept him out the prior week. But Fisher said Monday that the most recent ailment was unrelated and called him day-to-day. The injury report then listed Brockers with a thigh injury, but Fisher did not have an update on his condition Wednesday.
“He just didn’t practice today,” Fisher said. “So we’ll see how that goes as each day moves forward.”
The Rams have lost back-to-back games largely because of a short-handed defensive line that has prompted the Bills and Lions to score a combined 61 points. Even while shorthanded, the Rams’ defensive line has compiled a respectable 10 quarterback hits, three sacks and 12 tackles for loss in that two-week stretch. But Bills running back LeSean McCoy was able to rush for 150 yards in Week 5 and Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford posted a 139.8 passer rating in Week 6.
“We aren’t getting to the quarterback,” Donald said after Sunday’s loss. “… It’s a long season; we’ve got room for improvement. We’ll start with us up front on the line. [If] we can’t get to the quarterback, he’s back there all day, passing the ball, making plays.”
Quinn, who compiled 40 sacks while fully healthy from 2012-14, may be able to help.
znModeratorI don’t know. I haven’t seen that from science professors obviously but I can’t speak to what philosophy and humanities professors might be saying
No, that I know of, no one teaches that “science” is “just another narrative.”
They teach that science is a methodology and is always incomplete.
But then science teaches that too.
Disputing facts (“is GMO stuff good or not”) is not the same as disputing SCIENCE.
znModeratorAs a coach, you have to be prepared for everything.
You keep repeating abstract pronouncements about coaches.
Meanwhile, I can’t think of a single team that was 2 deep at right DE, to the point where they could lose a top starter at that spot (like a Dent, Freeney, or Haley) without any effect.
And that’s not even mentioning losing a top CB at the same time.
.
znModeratorjust to play devil’s advocate houston is without jj watt who is arguably the best player period in the nfl. and he wasn’t even healthy the three games he did play.
the defense is ranked 6th overall in total yards allowed.
of course you could go off different metrics. on football outsiders houston is ranked 11th overall in dvoa. rams are ranked 14th.
i don’t know what other injuries the texans have suffered compared to the rams.
Who else would they have to be without for it to be equivalent to Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson?
Cause the Rams aren’t missing just one player.
znModeratorCase Keenum wants to finish what he’s started in turning around the offense
Gary Klein
http://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-keenum-20161019-snap-story.html
Rams quarterback Case Keenum likes the surroundings. He’s enjoying the luxurious, sprawling, tree-lined resort where the team is encamped outside the city.
“We’ve got a good pitch here,” Keenum, affecting the appropriate vernacular, said Wednesday after practice on the resort’s field where England’s national rugby team trains.
The Rams just had completed the first day of preparation for Sunday’s game against theNew York Giants at Twickenham Stadium.
Keenum is focused on another kind of finish. The elusive kind. The kind that wins games.
Consider: Last week against the Detroit Lions, Keenum produced perhaps the best statistical performance of his NFL career.
Jeff Fisher said. “The game slowed down for him.”
Said offensive lineman Rodger Saffold: “Nobody knew how well he was doing until after the game…. He didn’t even know it — and he was the one throwing ’em.”
Keenum passed for 321 yards and three touchdowns. He also rushed for a touchdown.
“I thought I gave guys chances to make plays down the field,” he said.
It was all for naught.
Keenum had a pass intercepted with a little more than a minute left, sealing the Rams’ 31-28 defeat.
“I’ve got to — we’ve got to — finish,” Keenum said. “To have the ball in your hands with a chance to tie or win the game with a minute-and-half left, you’ve got to do it in this league.”
“It’s something I want to do and I know I can do and know this team can do.”
The game against the Lions was not the first time Keenum came up short.
In the previous week’s defeat against the Buffalo Bills, the Rams had the ball twice in the final minutes. They went three-and-out and then tried an ill-fated fake punt that led to a Buffalo touchdown and an 11-point lead.
Keenum, 28, had been a career backup until Fisher anointed him the starter going into offseason workouts.
He did not flinch when the Rams traded up to the top of the draft to select quarterbackJared Goff. Keenum played well during the exhibition season and kept his job. And his performance in defeat Sunday quelled some of the calls for the Rams to turn over the offense to Goff immediately.
Keenum is still learning about himself, he said.
“I never want to feel like I’ve arrived or gotten ‘there,’ wherever ‘there’ is,” he said. “I think that’s what all the good ones do — they continue to get better, no matter how much they’ve played or how many games they’ve played or how much experience they have.”
But Keenum would like to add to his resume by leading the Rams to victory with a late-game drive.
“All the great ones, they’re known for never being out of a game,” he said. “That’s definitely something that I want to take pride in.
“No matter what the situation is, I want to be able to go down and score points.”
Getting defensive
It’s been several days — and several thousand miles — since the loss to Detroit, but middle linebacker Alec Ogletree still feels responsible.
So there’s a new goal for the unit he leads.
“Play 10 times better on defense,” he said. “It started with me just talking to the guys and getting everybody’s mind right.
“We’re going to have a different approach this week. It’s the same thing we’ve been doing but we just need to just focus in a lot more and make sure we get back to what we were doing.”
The Giants feature quarterback Eli Manning and receivers Odell Beckham Jr., Sterling Shepard and Victor Cruz.
“They can put up 40 points in a matter of seconds if you’re not careful,” Ogletree said.
Quick hits
Defensive tackle Michael Brockers did not practice because of a thigh injury. Brockers was sidelined against Buffalo because of a hip injury but returned against the Lions and suffered the new injury. Defensive end Robert Quinn (shoulder) was limited…. Former Rams cornerback Janoris Jenkins has two interceptions for the Giants.
znModeratorI would expect next men up, be coached up, and prepared to play well.
So you think there are teams 2 deep when it comes to a top pass-rushing right defensive end?
Name the teams you;ve known through all NFL history that were 2 deep that way. That is they could afford to lose a top pass rushing end because they didn’t lose anything with the next guy up. How many teams have ever been that deep at end? (And that’s not to mention the fact that it’s both a top corner and a top end.)
Because see the issue is, not replacing A player. It’s replacing one of the top players in the league.
Is a team better off with one of the top defensive ends in the league? Cause if not I don’t know why they extended him. Turns out according to you, you can get just as good production for cheaper from your bench.
I keep asking these tough but obvious questions and you keep repeating coaching cliches.
znModeratorWe had them against the 49ers and Buccaneers. What is the excuse?
I;m sorry Jack I hit edit instead of quote and kind of butchered your post there. I straightened it out as best I could.
But to reply to what’s there.
I don’t use the “e” word, Jack. To call someone’s argument an “excuse” is to be disdainful and dismissive.
But back to my bet.
Now unless you claim that with Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson the Rams should never be defeated…which I doubt you would claim…then consider the bet. Do the odds favor them winning more with those 3 or less with those 3?
If you had to choose a game to bet on the Rams, would it be one where they had Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson or one where they didn’t?
I bet I know your answer, since your answer would be reasonable.
So therefore yes, having those 3 out makes a difference.
…
znModeratorBut now it’s time to soldier on – like Massey would, zack.
That’s it. Just think about what Massey would do.
….
Massey’s gone?
.
From Macbeth, Act IV scene iii
ROSS
Your castle is surprised; your wife and babes
Savagely slaughter’d…MACDUFF
My children too?ROSS
Wife, children, servants, all
That could be found.MACDUFF
And I must be from thence!
My wife kill’d too?ROSS
I have said.MACDUFF
All my pretty ones?
Did you say all? O hell-kite! All?
What, all my pretty chickens and their dam
At one fell swoop?znModeratorHe can’t swat defenders out of the way like Godzilla does fighter jets.
Then what did they draft him for?
Bust.
znModeratorThe defense has been without three of their best players the last couple weeks. They’ll improve when Brockers, Quinn and TruJo are back to health.
Does not matter.
Of course it matters.
If you had to put money down on the Rams but could choose your game, which game would you choose?
One where they had Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson at full speed?
Or one where all 3 were out?
October 19, 2016 at 2:07 am in reply to: Wentz looks pretty good & other gameday observations #55583znModeratorWentz struggles, but this loss is not on him
There were many ways to look at the 27-20 loss to the Redskins, but there could have been two contrary views of how Carson Wentz played in the Eagles’ worst game of this still-young season.
It could be said that the quarterback overcame the ineffectiveness of his offensive line, an obscene stretch without possession thanks in part to a woeful defense, and the inability of his receivers to get open downfield to have a workmanlike performance that kept the Eagles battling to the gun.
Or it could be said that Wentz played like a rookie, which, of course, he is after only five games. He allowed early pressure and sacks to rattle him, he threw high of open receivers and he held onto the ball far too long on the Eagles’ last drive when situationally he should have known better.
“I’ve got to be better, especially late in the game,” Wentz said Sunday. “Any time an offense has a chance to win at the end of the game and you come up short, it’s frustrating. I put that on myself.”
It was the second week in a row in which Wentz had the ball in a late-game situation and had the opportunity to either put the Eagles ahead or into a tie, and it was the second week in a row that he failed to rise to the occasion.
On Oct. 9 in Detroit, Wentz threw a deep pass to Nelson Agholor on the Eagles’ first play of their final drive that was intercepted, when a more conservative throw considering the circumstances would have been prudent. It wasn’t an egregious decision, and put into long-term perspective maybe not the wrong one, but it was costly.
And then on Sunday, Wentz advanced the offense into Redskins territory with two minutes to play. But he took consecutive sacks that forced the Eagles to punt on fourth and 24 and he never saw the ball again.
“I respect Coach’s decision,” Wentz said of Doug Pederson’s decision to give the ball back to Washington with 1 minute, 38 seconds left. “At the time I was frustrated, but it was probably the right decision.”
But Wentz had made a number of impressive throws in the fourth quarter that suggested maybe he was capable of pulling off a miracle. After completing just 5 of 11 passes for 54 yards through three quarters, he was 6 of 11 for 125 yards.
“I thought he bounced back and did a nice job,” Pederson said Monday. “He stood in there, he delivered the football, made a couple nice throws on the run [and] out of the pocket. It was unfortunate the one came back on a penalty.”
That pass came in the third quarter and it was the sort of athletic play that had first made Eagles coaches think they had something special in the spring. Wentz escaped the pocket, dodged a defender, and just as he was being hit, floated a pass across his body to Dorial Green-Beckham.
But a block-in-the-back penalty by Wendell Smallwood negated the 38-yard completion.
Wentz was under siege for most of the day. The decision to start Halapoulivaati Vaitai at right tackle had a cumulative effect on both the line and the offense. Pederson had to scheme protection help toward the rookie, and when he didn’t, Vaitai was overmatched against Ryan Kerrigan.
Wentz was sacked on the first play when Kerrigan got around tight end Brent Celek and four plays later when the Redskins outside linebacker bulldozed Vaitai. On the quarterback’s third pass, he rolled outside on a naked bootleg, but there was additional pressure after Vaitai missed his assignment and Wentz’s throw sailed over an open Jordan Matthews.
High throws were a continual problem.
“It didn’t change the way I played,” Wentz said of the early pressure.
He seemed to gain momentum with consecutive completions on the Eagles’ fourth series, but Kerrigan once again blew by Vaitai and sacked Wentz. It essentially killed that drive. The Eagles then went nearly 20 game-time minutes, aside from an end-of-the-half kneel, without a play on offense.
“We weren’t really on the field much,” Wentz said. “It was tough.”
When the Eagles finally got the ball back with 8:40 left in the third quarter, they trailed, 24-14. Vaitai was still left alone to block Kerrigan one-on-one, and a missed assignment by the tackle forced Wentz to dump an incomplete pass to Smallwood.
The Green-Beckham catch-Smallwood penalty occurred on the next play and the backed-up Eagles were eventually forced to punt.
From that point onward, Pederson either left an additional blocker in to help Vaitai or had a running back and tight end chip before his route. It appeared to quell the Redskins rush for a period, and Wentz started hitting receivers down the field from the pocket.
He dropped a 54-yard dime to Matthews on a deep post, he hit Green-Beckham on a 22-yard dig, and he hooked up with tight end Zach Ertz on a 22-yard seam route. But Wentz couldn’t connect with Ertz on a third-down slant at the Redskins 10-yard line with 5:29 left.
“I threw it high,” Wentz said, “and made it hard on him.”
On the Eagles’ ensuing drive, Wentz had maybe his best toss when he side-armed a heave to Agholor for 18 yards on third and 9. But two plays later he was sacked back-to-back.
“I’ve got to get the ball out,” Wentz said. “I can’t take those sacks. That’s definitely on me.”
It wasn’t all on Wentz, of course. His first reads failed to get separation. But he took the heat.
“That’s the type of guy that Carson is,” Pederson said. “He’s hard on himself.”
Wentz was probably more inclined to view his performance with a negative slant. But from this objective lens, while he had his first extended struggles as a pro, he was hardly at fault for the Eagles’ loss.
..
znModeratorThings could get heated between Odell Beckham and Rams in London
Odell Beckham is a hot-head with a nasty history against the over-the-edge Rams defense coached by Bountygate mastermind Gregg Williams and sanctioned by holier-than-thou Jeff Fisher.
If Roger Goodell wants to avoid an international incident when the Giants play the Rams on Sunday in London, he needs to encourage Queen Elizabeth to be peacemaker and invite Beckham, Williams, Fisher and the cheap shot Rams players remaining from the ugly brawl game in St. Louis two years ago over to Buckingham Palace for pregame tea and crumpets.
This is a volatile mix of Beckham’s explosive personality and the dirtiest team in the league. Things could get so ugly passports might be revoked. The reputations of Beckham and the Rams have only taken further hits since they last met.
“He’s an outstanding player. He’ll learn. I think he’ll learn because there’s clearly a lack of respect for his opponents at times,” Fisher, who has mastered the art of going no better than 8-8 every year and keeping his job, said after the game two years ago. “He’s a great kid. We spent a lot of time with him prior to last year’s draft. He just needs to settle down and just catch balls and score touchdowns and just play. There were a number of incidents previous to our game where there were spikes at the opponent, spikes on the sideline, intentional forceable straight-arms and things that weren’t called.”
Beckham vs. the Rams late in the 2014 season was the precursor to Beckham vs. Josh Norman late in the 2015 season. This season, the receiver attacked the kicking net during the Washington game the third week and it rebounded to gash his face. Beckham was penalized the next week after he retaliated after an out-of-bounds hit by Minnesota’s Xavier Rhodes, hugged the kicking net after a score in Green Bay even though the Giants were losing by seven with just under three minutes left, then was out of control off the field and unstoppable on the field against the Ravens.
Odell Beckham Jr. and the Rams did not get along so well last time they met. (CHRIS LEE/AP)
He scored on touchdowns of 75 yards in the third quarter and then 66 yards to win the game with less than two minutes remaining. He was The Man. Then he was The Child. He removed his helmet after the second TD, penalizing the Giants for what could have been a game-costing 15 yards, then proposed marriage to the kicking net.I hope they will be happy together.
On Sunday in Detroit, Williams’ defense nearly started a brawl after going against the unwritten rule by playing all-out on the final two plays when the Lions were in the victory formation. Greg Schiano did that against the Giants in 2012 when he was coaching the Bucs — Eli Manning was sent flying on the final play — and infuriated Tom Coughlin.
Last year, after Rams cornerback LaMarcus Joyner hit Vikings quarterback Teddy Bridgewater in the head as he was sliding and caused a concussion, Vikes coach Mike Zimmer said, “If we were on the street, we probably would have had a fight.” He called it a cheap shot and said Williams’ defenses “are all like that.”
Williams was forced to sit out the 2013 season following the Bountygate scandal with the Saints. Fisher had hired him in St. Louis after Sean Payton let him go in New Orleans and before he was suspended. He brought him in as defensive coordinator in 2014, the same position he once held under Fisher in Tennessee. Fisher is the co-chairman of the competition committee, which in recent years has focused on making the game safer, but it’s not the way his team plays. Does Williams have any bounties — not the paper towel — packed for London?
He would never be foolish enough to use that term to his players, but is he above getting his guys worked up about Beckham, to encourage them to intimidate him and emphasize he can be thrown off his game with a couple of chippy hits?
Beckham was a rookie when he faced the Rams in 2014 and it was the first time his antics really angered an opponent. He picked up a taunting penalty after spinning the ball at the feet of safety T.J. McDonald after catching a nine-yard TD in the first quarter. McDonald was later called for taunting when he got in Beckham’s face after hitting him. Beckham finished with eight catches for 148 yards with two TDs, the second an 80-yarder in the third quarter.
Late in the first half of the Giants 37-27 victory, Beckham grabbed a short pass, ran toward the Giants sideline and then out of bounds. Linebacker Alec Ogletree drove him into the turf. Ogletree landed on top and Beckham tried to shove the ball in his face. Ogletree then pushed Beckham in the face when he was still on the ground, sending him crashing onto his back.
“He tried to pick me up and dunk me,” Beckham said after the game. “I just kind of lost my temper for a split second.”
Now, where have we heard that before?
All hell broke loose on the Giants sideline. Damontre Moore and Preston Parker of the Giants and William Hayes of the Rams were ejected. Hayes, Ogletree and McDonald are still with the Rams. Six Giants and three Rams were fined including $10,000 for Beckham, $8,268 for Ogletree and $10,000 for Hayes throwing a punch.
Fisher claimed the next day OBJ had first grabbed Ogletree’s facemask. He placed the blame on Beckham:
Fisher indicated his defense was aggravated with Beckham before the game. “Someone said he came out and said he was going to set an NFL record today against the defense early this morning,” he said. “I was told that. I don’t know.”
znModeratorLosing patience with Robinson.
Yes he was bad on that play. But here’s a different account…though I am not as confident as this guy is that Gurley makes it if he goes left the way the play was designed:
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off the net from Hacksaw_64Even with the cutesy pull of Brown, the play should have been a TD upon review. Gurley for some strange reason decided not to make the correct read and make the cut to his left to follow Brown into the endzone(probably untouched if he makes the cut). Instead he decides to run to the right side smack into the gap Brown just vacated. Not only was there an unblocked defender already in the backfield in that gap waiting, Barnes pushed his guy that direction too, which is actually what we wanted. Why on earth if your going to pull on the goal line are you running to that side? Why even think about taking a step towards that gap? makes no sense.
So it looks like either Gurley didn’t know the play or made a horrible read. Blocking while cutesy was fine if Gurley follows his blocker…
znModeratorGurley seemingly had a hole to his left, with Cory Harkey blocking his man while acting as a fullback and right guard Jamon Brown acting as a pulling guard to create a hole on the left side. But Gurley ran straight ahead, and the penetration came quickly.
I thought that play was on Gurley, myself. Not on the OL.
But then see for yourself.
..
znModeratorRams ‘have to move on’ from another tough loss
Alden Gonzalez
LOS ANGELES — By the time Monday came, Jeff Fisher had lost complete track of time.
“Good morning, afternoon or evening,” the Los Angeles Rams’ coach said as he began a conference call with the media.
Fisher’s Rams arrived in an unfamiliar place in an all-too-familiar scenario.
When they touched down in London on Monday morning local time, they were 3-3 for the fourth time in the five years Fisher has been their coach. They were coming off a deflating 31-28 loss to the Detroit Lions, one that saw their stagnant offense awaken and their shorthanded defense fall flat, leaving their entire team in a collective state of distress.
Four of the Rams’ last five games have been decided by six points or less and each of them have basically come down to one final drive.
It’s been a mentally draining experience.
“In this case, you show the positives, especially from an offensive standpoint,” Fisher said. “And that carries over. Our offense believes they’re getting better, and I think the numbers are improving. I don’t really care where we’re ranked and all those kind of things, but the Detroit defense had a hard time stopping our offense. As we did their offense. But I expect our defense to bounce back, as the health factor improves. The encouraging thing for me, in the big picture, is that the offense is making plays, and Case [Keenum] is comfortable. We’re pushing the ball down the field, we’re getting the ball in the end zone, we’re getting the ball to our playmakers.”
The Rams entered Week 6 last in the NFL in yards per game, then accumulated 23 first downs, gained 387 yards from scrimmage and scored four touchdowns on long drives. Keenum at one point completed 19 consecutive passes, setting a new franchise record. Kenny Britt caught seven passes for 136 yards and scored twice. And though Todd Gurley’s numbers once again looked pedestrian — 58 yards on the ground, 39 through the air — he was able to find plenty of holes early on.
The main issue — aside from the late-game interception that sealed a second straight loss — was a shorthanded defense that once again allowed too many big plays.
The Rams didn’t suffer any injuries outside of defensive tackle Michael Brockers, who’s considered day-to-day with an injury that is unrelated to the hip ailment that kept him out in Week 5. Fisher was encouraged by that. The players won’t practice again until Wednesday because Fisher wants to give them time to acclimate to a city that is eight hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time. But the coaches have been game-planning ever since they left Detroit, thinking about how to contain Odell Beckham Jr. and beat the Giants to go into the bye week with a winning record.
E.J. Gaines, who will likely cover Beckham with No. 1 cornerback Trumaine Johnson still nursing an ankle sprain, said the Rams “need to win this next one” because three losses in a row is “definitely unacceptable.”
“You could appreciate the mood in the locker room after the game,” Fisher said. “It was somber, it was filled with disappointment, things like that. But we have to move on.”
Before hanging up the phone, Fisher asked a question for the media members on the other line: “What time is it over there?”
znModeratorI think its worth remembering he’s still really inexperienced. I mean how many actual NFL games has he played? And how many in this system?
I would say yes and no on that.
He was signed as a UDFA in 2012. He started some games in 2013 (his first btw was against the Rams, he came in for Schaub). Interestingly he had a nice long ball even then.
Since that year he started 2 for the Texans in 2014, 5 for the Rams in 2015, and then obviously 6 more.
Systems? He was in Kubiak’s system in 2013 (WCO). He was in Schott’s system in 2014 and then in O’Brien’s back in Houston (Erhard-Perkins). He was then in the Cigz variation of the Schott system in 2015, and now in the Boras variation of the Cigz/Schott offense in 2016.
So he has done the full Bradford Tour.
I would say btw that there is a good chance that the changes Boras put in were enough that everyone was learning, in effect, a new system in 2016. There are all sorts of signs of that, including things players and coaches said. That’s not Canon yet but I think it’s true.
But here’s another thing about Keenum.
In the last several years, quite a few qbs who played in a college Air Raid spread offense have been drafted or signed in the NFL, and so far,… Keenum is the ONLY one who has successfully adapted to the pros.
I would also say that Keenum’s improvement can put to the rest this idea some have that the Rams can’t coach qbs. Keenum’s improvement is obvious and he did not coach himself.
I like brownsugar’s post but he’s a bit too categorical for me in parts. There is more to Keenum than he is seeing. Part of that is because people who look only at measurables really don’t get a good grasp on CK. CK has a knack for maximizing his game through near fanatical film study and just working on it. Yeah all qbs work on stuff but CK is just the type who if you CAN improve something, he WILL. So we know he can’t throw quick line drive medium lasers. BUT think about his dynamic with Tavon. It was a mess and they actually FIXED it.
He also has some improv to his game and some quick thinking and some real-deal field smarts.
This idea that a qb HAS TO throw 11-20 yard darts to be part of a modern offense is just over the top IMO.
What I don’t like about CK is that he’s 50/50 in clutch situations. He’s as likely to come through in that situation (Tampa and Arizona were come from behind wins) as he is to fuck up (Buffalo and Detroit).
All said and done I think the least you can say about CK is that he is probably the best back-up caliber qb the Rams have had. I can’t think of a better one. I of course am not counting starting-caliber qbs who just happened to be #2 on the depth chart (Warner, Bulger, Ferragamo, and for that matter Goff). But a back-up pedigree qb.
If the Rams don’t keep him watch–he will end up on a winning team, including places like Denver or New England.
Not all fans appreciate Keenum, apparently, but you can bet NFL coaches do.
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znModerator1. It the history of teams moving, only one had a winning record the year after a move. Say what you will, but, moving apparently subtracts from a team being ready. That’s the history.
They didn’t have winning records after the move because they were not good teams in the first place. If the move negatively affected teams they should have worse records the following year right? But that’s not really how it breaks down. There is no significant drop in record other than the 84 colts. They were just a bad team and didn’t have a winning season until 1987.
81 raiders were 7-9 and then went 8-1
83 colts were 7-9 and then were 4-12
87 cards were 7-8 and then were 7-9
94 raiders were 9-7 and then went 8-8
94 rams were 4-12 and then went 7-9
96 browns deactivated ——
96 oilers were 8-8 and then went 8-8There is no leap to a winning record either, with the sole exception of the 81 Raiders. 6 other teams, and you would think at least one could improve to at least a modest winning record in a year? IF that were possible?
YOu left out the Ravens. The Ravens of 96 were the Browns of 95. Same team. They went from 5-11 to 4-12.
znModerator. the lack of depth on defense,
I understand your frustrations but just want to focus on one thing. I can’t think of many defenses that could lose a top-flight DE like Quinn and a top-flight CB like Johnson and have meaningful depth behind those players.
That would suggest, for example, that it’s possible to imagine a team that has TWO good, productive pass-rushing right defensive ends. Most teams, if they have one, are lucky to have that one.
To be honest with you, I can’t remember a single example of a team that was that deep on defense.
For example if the 2001 defense lost Little (who didn’t play on the right but you get my point), who was behind him that would have been provided even a fraction of the same production?
Go through the list of great 4/3 DEs…who was behind Dent? Haley? Freeney? Those guys are rare.
And of course there just aren’t that many top corners of Tru’s caliber…and he was playing lights out before getting hurt.
If you think of all the top corners on the best defenses over the years, if that corner went down, was he replaced by someone as good? Usually not, right?
If the 2001 defense lost both Aeneas and Little, would it be as good?
October 17, 2016 at 9:43 pm in reply to: Fisher says Rams' kneel-down blitz of Lions 'did not come from sideline' #55533znModeratorJeff Fisher said Rams rushing on Lions' kneel-down wasn't a call from the sidelines. He apologized to Jim Caldwell afterwards. pic.twitter.com/Q4QkLcLU6a
— Jack Wang (@thejackwang) October 17, 2016
znModeratorI thought the running game looked just fine in the first half. Havent watched the second half.
w
vOkay. But. Do we have ourselves a theory? Yes? No? Thotz?
Also…Jack called you out in a post below. It’s high noon. Time to face the music. When the going gets tough, the tough use tenderizer.
znModeratorI am now completely convinced of this, even though it wasn’t the running game that improved, it was the passing game.
And yes they were passing against Detroit but still.
They didn’t know the offense, not at the “just play” level anyway, and it hampered everything in the 1st 2 games.
Now of course ironically the defense is caving (largely cause of injuries) so it’s lost re-in-syncness, but nevertheless it’s worth knowing that that’s what it was with the offense.
znModeratorI don’t have a great feeling about this team the next few years. They seem to be in a spot where they will have some roster work to do. Quinn is getting hurt quite a bit lately. And certainly the secondary lost some good pieces this year in Jenkins and Mcleod.
PFF just did an analysis where they said the Rams have one of the best safety duos in the league.
They need depth at CB because of Johnson.
All teams could use another pass rusher.
Meanwhile, in response to your “the glass isn’t even half empty it;s shattered into a thousand pieces in the middle of an apocalyptic drought” view, I would say you’re missing a lot.
USED TO BE we thought the Rams needed receivers. Now, Cooper and Spruce can’t even get on the field because Quick and Britt, it turns out, are that good. The receiver position has not been this good for years.
They have a high-picked qb with a ton of golden promise and his BACK-UP just had one of the best games by a Rams qb in years.
And yes they could add some defensive depth but in the meanwhile will be better when Johnson is back, which is better than saying they have no one at corner.
And I ain’t just being sun-shiney day-glo kool aid man. That’s all just solid basic real stuff.
….
znModeratorThe Rams just lost two games they expected to win. It only makes sense that the head coach was going to have something to say to his team using language that he might not want the public to hear.
I think (and I don’t know for a fact) that it had more to do with 2 things in the Detroit game. The dumb defensive penalties, and the chippiness they showed during the Detroit victory kneel.
I don’t think a coach rips into a team for losing when they showed effort.
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