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znModeratoralyoshamucci wrote:
I’m pretty glad I waited until the next day to write this one up … as a “glass half full” guy I sometimes need 24 hours of perspective.
This was a weird PS game. My expectations were thrown multiple times, and so few starters played, that I had to really work around what I saw and have some faith in the coaching staff.
The Good
1) Malcolm Brown and Justin Davis top this list. If Gurley has issues or gets injured, I’m thinking we’re in capable hands.
2) Josh Reynolds … I am giving him a mulligan on the ball coming out of the sun. Until they play in the coliseum more they’re not going to know where it’s going to be. Holding onto that hit from McCoil (Who I loved coming out of Tulsa) and then a few plays later beating someone deep … that’s what I know from Texas A and M from him.
3) Eldrenkamp. I know it’s weird to put him here, but I keyed on him this game and was really happy with his play. He seemed to move with ease and have light feet, but then arrive with a solid foundation.
4) Casey Sayles. I was watching Omarius Bryant, and so of course Sayles had multiple stuffs during that time frame. I don’t know if he makes the roster, but I hope he sticks on the PS.
5) Very few penalties. I remember the years with Fisher in the PS … flag festivals.
6) The Playcalling the first drive …
7) Goff’s pass to Brown under pressure.
8) Jordan … I don’t know how Webster starts over him with so few preseason reps. He engages with strength with those long arms and arrives angry … I’m a fan.
9) Josh Forrest has played well enough to start above Littleton IMO. I’d have him as the primary backup ILB.
10) Isaiah johnson has had a good PS … he’s not spectacular, but solid. I haven’t keyed on his STeams so if anyone has info there I’d love to hear it. Because we have 2 cover safeties we can and will likely keep 5 I’d think.
11) Another solid outing from McRoberts.
12) Best showing for Woods so far.
13) Hatfield’s aggro INT. I’ll remember his name now.
The Bad
14) Jamon Brown heads this list … I can’t believe Wichmann hasn’t beaten him out.
15) Countess … all game got beat.
16) Cooper’s gator arms when Jatavis Brown was about to light him up.
17) Joyner … did he not know he was guarding a speedster?
18) The ball Jared threw. I don’t know if it came out of his hand wrong, or if someone wasn’t in the right spot. Or both.
19) The Ball security when you have Bosa bearing down on you. You have to know one of the best in the biz is coming at you … at least enough to protect the possession in scoring range. I’m not going to dismiss the good things he did because he had a rough game or get all negative … as I’ve been watching him since he was a freshman at Cal.
20) Mannion staring down receivers. He’s a backup. He’s not a bad backup … but if he stares down receivers in the regular season should something happen to Goff it’s going to be pick 6 city.
znModeratorTo me, there is no evidence, and no logic, behind the “North Korea started the war without provocation” theory.
And I disagree. I don’t think the word “provocation” is relevant. Because of previous conflicts, NK believed they would be welcomed in the south by a kind of southern 5th column that was already sympathetic to them. (They were horribly mistaken about that.) The point was unification, though in their terms.
Those were the plans Stalin considered and approved. He also did so at least in part because he believed the USA had drawn back from SK and basically was not going to act in response to an invasion.
We could go on for hours, but I believe the scholarship I have seen. We may have to just agree to disagree on this one.
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Do you acknowledge that Syngman Rhee, the South Korean dictator, committed pre-war and war-time atrocities, focusing on the slaughter of leftists, and that we know he wanted to invade the North in 1949? Would you not also agree that the North had reasons for defending itself and protecting Korean leftists?
The article you cite doesn’t say a thing about the well-known actions of a brutal fascist thug whom we backed, or that the Korean people themselves kicked out of office, finally, in 1960.
I know you haven’t fallen for it, but the level of acceptance of the “official story” in America is tragic, IMO. The ease with which so many accept this story of the evil North launching an unprovoked attack on the completely innocent South has its parallels with our own Lost Cause true believers. These things, as you know, are always far more complex than any manichean approach would have us believe. And I think it deserves a much closer and more objective look.
But, as you say, we could go on for hours. So that “agree to disagree” thing might be best.
Yeah. We’ve had this discussion before. Rhee came up before, and I responded before. Etc. So I just don’t have that much energy for this one, though you raise some interesting points. I will just say that Blum’s comment is open to question, especially with new archival material on Stalin’s role. That’s all I had energy for today—a quick drive by reminder that there’s a lot of info on this (including Stalin’s role).
Beyond that, yeah, we overlap in some ways and not in others. Another time, then.
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znModeratorTo me, there is no evidence, and no logic, behind the “North Korea started the war without provocation” theory.
And I disagree. I don’t think the word “provocation” is relevant. Because of previous conflicts, NK believed they would be welcomed in the south by a kind of southern 5th column that was already sympathetic to them. (They were horribly mistaken about that.) The point was unification, though in their terms.
Those were the plans Stalin considered and approved. He also did so at least in part because he believed the USA had drawn back from SK and basically was not going to act in response to an invasion.
We could go on for hours, but I believe the scholarship I have seen. We may have to just agree to disagree on this one.
….
August 27, 2017 at 12:23 pm in reply to: Russia’s Attacks on Democracy Aren’t Only a Problem for America #73373znModeratorBut that memory is still there.
The czar was an emperor. Empires are not gathered together by means of voluntary association. As a Ukrainian, I have all sorts of ideas about Russia’s past, and how it went from a formal empire to the held together by force empire by another name called the USSR. Once you start evoking the idea of long memories in that region, it goes every single direction and involves many different regions and peoples. They all have long memories. Most Ukrainians I know would not happily accept the idea that historical Russia was mostly on the receiving end of bad memories.
znModeratorNot sure why, but after the last 8 minutes of the game, I tried to write in our chat, and click send, but it would not send. I was having difficulty. Not sure what was going on. I was pissed.
You may have been booted, or you may have had to re-login.
…
znModeratorJust sounds like the game has not slowed down yet, for Goff.
He had one bad throw.
And otherwise in all 3 games combined, a qb rating of 95+.
znModeratorOn Korea. We have no objective evidence that pins the “fault” of the war on North Korea alone. None.
I have to differ with you on that. Yes we do. And a lot of it too. This has grown exponentially since former Soviet archives have been opened to scholars.
The following article needs to be read carefully, in detail:
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http://china.usc.edu/shen-mao-stalin-and-korean-war-trilateral-communist-relations-1950s-2012
Shen, Mao, Stalin And The Korean War: Trilateral Communist Relations In The 1950s, 2012
Zhihua Shen’s book was reviewed by Kathryn Weathersby for the H-Diplo discussion list in April 2013. It is reproduced here under Creative Commons license.Review of Zhihua Shen. Mao, Stalin and the Korean War: Trilateral Communist Relations in the 1950s.
Reviewed by Kathryn Weathersby (Johns Hopkins University)
The Korean War in the Context of Sino-Soviet Relations
The publication of Shen Zhihua’s Mao, Stalin and the Korean War marks a significant advance in English-language literature on the Korean \War. A Russia specialist, Shen has long been China’s leading historian of the Korean War, tirelessly pioneering research into Chinese archival documents and making the abundant declassified Russian documents available in Chinese translation. The original 2003 version of this book was a sensation in China as the first non-propagandistic, scholarly account of this pivotal event in the history of the People’s Republic of China (PRC). Former State Department officer Neil Silver has done a great service to English-speaking readers by painstakingly translating and adapting this important work.
Shen investigates two central questions about the war: why Stalin decided to support a North Korean attack on South Korea in 1950 and why the Chinese leadership decided to enter the war in October 1950. Unlike most English-language accounts of the war, which examine its outbreak in terms of the Soviet/American conflict, Shen places Stalin’s decisions regarding Korea in the context of his rapidly changing relations with the Chinese Communist leadership. Drawing on both Chinese and Russian sources, Shen charts Stalin’s ambivalent approach to the Chinese party from 1945 to the end of 1949. He argues that the Soviet leader was determined to maintain the territorial gains in the Far East which he had secured through the Yalta system, which were contingent on his conclusion of a treaty with the Nationalist government. He therefore supported his Chinese comrades only sporadically. For the same reason, throughout this period he maintained a defensive position in regard to a divided Korea. The decision to establish an alliance with the PRC, made in early January 1950, fundamentally changed the equation. In negotiating the terms of the alliance treaty, the Chinese leadership held firm to their demand that the Soviet Union relinquish control of its important assets in Manchuria, the Russian-built Changchun railroad and the ports of Lushun and Dalian at its terminus that provided Moscow its only ice-free access to the Pacific. To compensate for the loss of these strategically essential holdings, Stalin backed Kim Il Sung’s assault on South Korea, since control of the entire peninsula by the much more tractable North Koreans would assure Moscow access to the ports of Pusan and Inchon.
Shen’s analysis of the impact of the Sino-Soviet alliance on Soviet policy toward Korea enriches our understanding of the reasons Stalin took the risky step of invading the Republic of Korea. However, Shen surprisingly omits discussion of NSC-48, the American strategic strategy for East Asia adopted in late December 1949 in response to the establishment of the People’s Republic of China. In this new policy, the United States prioritized its goals in the region given the limited military resources it retained after postwar demobilization. Thus, it committed itself to the defense of Japan, the Philippines, and the small islands to the east that had been taken from Japan at the end of the war. Territories to the west, including Korea and Taiwan, lay outside the new defense perimeter.
I have argued that Stalin learned immediately of the substance of NSC-48, most likely from Donald McLean, his highly placed British spy in Washington, and that knowledge of this policy led Stalin to conclude that the United States would not intervene to protect South Korea. A record of Stalin’s conversations with Kim Il Sung in April 1950 quoted by Russian scholars Evgenii Bazhanov and Natalia Bazhanova, but not included in Shen’s account, reveals that the Soviet leader explained to his Korean protege that it was now possible to assist him in his military campaign against the South because of the victory of the Chinese Communists and the disinclination of the Americans to intervene in Korea. Nonetheless, Stalin cautioned that they must proceed carefully because the danger of American intervention remained. He thus informed the North Korean leader that if the Korean People’s Army needed reinforcements, he would have to turn to China; Soviet troops will not be sent to Korea.[1] Shen’s analysis broadens our understanding of the impact of the establishment of the PRC on Stalin’s policy toward Korea, but it does not fully explain the decision for war. However much Stalin may have desired new ports on the Pacific, he would not have authorized the attack on South Korea unless he calculated that it would not lead to conflict with the United States.
Shen’s careful examination of his second question, which is based on newly available Chinese sources as well as the Russian documents released in the 1990s, provides a much fuller picture of Beijing’s decision to intervene than scholars have previously been able to construct. Departing from the interpretation of the Chinese-American historian Chen Jian, who argues that Mao’s decision to intervene was primarily driven by a desire to maintain revolutionary momentum within the PRC, Shen concludes that security concerns were paramount.[2]
Since China had barely begun to build an air force, it needed Soviet air cover to protect both its troops entering Korea and its rear areas in Manchuria from devastating American air attacks. Shen documents in detail Beijing’s intense negotiations with Stalin over this issue. In the end, fearing that Soviet air involvement in Korea would lead to all-out war with the United States, the Soviet leader stalled for time, claiming that it would take two to two-and-a-half months for any of the numerous Soviet air assets deployed in the Far East to transfer to Manchuria. Since this timetable would be too late to prevent a North Korean defeat, the Chinese leadership agreed with Stalin’s instructions to Kim Il Sung to evacuate his remaining forces to Manchuria and the Soviet Far East.
At this point, however, Mao Zedong feared that a North Korean defeat would transfer the war to northeast China. Although the Sino/Soviet alliance would force the Soviet Union to support China in this war, the outcome would be a loss of northeast China either to Moscow or the Americans. Shen notes that after Stalin sent the Red Army into Manchuria in 1945 to defeat Japanese troops, he was able to force Chiang Kai-shek to sign a treaty that harmed China’s interests. Moreover, the PRC had secured the return of the Changchun Railway, Lushun, and Dalian only through very tough negotiations, like “taking meat out of a tiger’s mouth” (p. 176). Thus, to forestall loss of sovereignty to either great power, Mao decided to send troops to Korea even without Soviet air cover.
In a final twist, once Chinese forces successfully engaged the far better equipped American troops on October 25,1950, Stalin at last decided that he could trust his Chinese allies. As is well known, the Soviet leader had long doubted that Mao was a real Communist and feared that he would follow the path of the independent Yugoslav leader Marshall Tito. But just one week after the Chinese “Volunteers” proved their mettle against the Americans, the Soviet air force entered the war, albeit only in the rear area. As Shen documents, both Mao Zedong and Zhou Enlai attributed Stalin’s changed view of the Chinese Communist Party to China’s entry into the Korean War.
As the newly harmonious allies saved North Korea from extinction, they also began a period of unprecedented cooperation. The Chinese understood that Soviet air units must limit their zone of operation to rear areas in order to avoid escalating the war. Soviet planes thus could not provide cover for Chinese ground troops, as Beijing had initially requested, but Mao did not ask for such assistance another time. Shen concludes that while the allies disagreed on various tactical issues, for the remainder of the war Stalin and Mao “were able to exchange opinions candidly, fostering the resolution of issues between them” (p. 182). Shen emphasizes that the Soviet Union met nearly all of China’s requests for weapons and supplies, materiel which it could not obtain anywhere else. Moscow sent torpedo boats, floating mines, armored ships, small patrol boats, mine-sweeping equipment, and coastal artillery, in the process creating the PRC’s navy. The Soviet Union also provided air combat advisers to train Chinese pilots, as well as donating its new jet-powered fighter, the MiG-15. The month before armistice negotiations began in June 1951, Mao requested that the Soviet Union supply sixty divisions of ground forces, an amount that exceeded Moscow’s immediate capacities. In the end, the Soviet Union agreed to supply sixteen divisions during 1951 and the remaining forty-four by 1954. By the end of the war, fifty-six divisions had been re-equipped with Soviet arms. Moscow also provided anti-aircraft artillery for 101 battalions as well as artillery for two rocket divisions, fourteen howitzer divisions, two anti-tank divisions, four searchlight regiments, one radar regiment, and eight independent radar battalions. Twenty-eight engineering regiments were supplied with Soviet construction equipment, as well as ten railroad divisions.
The cooperation from Moscow that flowed from China’s performance in the Korean War extended to economic development as well. Shen writes that the volume of Sino-Soviet trade increased nine-fold in the first year of the war, from $26,300,000 in 1949 to $241,900,000 in 1950 (p. 191). The Soviet Union sold to China, at discounted prices, equipment for mining, transportation, energy production, metal rolling, and milling, as well as oil and finished steel. Moscow also sent a large number of technicians to China and welcomed large numbers of Chinese as students in Soviet institutions. This close cooperation ended abruptly with the Sino-Soviet split in 1960, but as Shen emphasizes, while it lasted it “played a major role in China’s economic revival” (p.191).
Neil Silver’s highly readable translation of Shen Zhihua’s book includes a useful introductory essay by Yang Kuisong of Beijing University, who takes issue with some of Shen’s conclusions regarding Stalin’s motives for starting the war. With regard to China’s decision to intervene, however, Yang concludes that Shen’s account is “convincing, logical, dramatic, and on target” (p. 16). Indeed, this path-breaking book is both fascinating and essential reading for all scholars interested in the recent history of Northeast Asia.
Notes
[1]. Kathryn Weathersby, “Should We Fear This? Stalin and the Danger of War with America,” Working Paper No. 39, Cold War International History Project (Washington DC: Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, 2002).
[2]. Chen Jian, China’s Road to the Korean War: the Making of the Sino-American Confrontation (New York: Columbia University Press, 1994).
August 27, 2017 at 11:12 am in reply to: Russia’s Attacks on Democracy Aren’t Only a Problem for America #73359znModeratorHow can we know that Russia would be doing what its doing if it didnt feel surrounded by NATO ?
I can only tell you what I think. So in spite of your bizarre misreading, I don’t know what this has to do with what Jared Goff thinks. Let’s leave him out of it. Anyway. In looking at Russia, I add up its internal policies with its external. They actually speak of expanding spheres of influence. Their relationship with the republics of the former USSR is very brutally paternalistic. They smash internal dissent and assassinate opposition. They directly propagandize their own news. They go to various places in the world and use various mechanisms to directly influence public discourse about THEM, in a kind of sustained PR campaign, while completely disallowing anything remotely similar on their own turf. This includes fostering dissent in other countries while using the fact of dissent in other countries to tell their own people that democracy does not work. And it’s that crude. DEMOCRACY does not work, Russian people, so stop whining for it. And so on. They use any and all means to do all of that. They present themselves openly as an authoritarian state intent on expanding its influence and power, and they act like it too.
And the NATO question can be reversed. Why isn’t Russia making nice with NATO and finding ways to convince the NATO bloc that in fact they have more in common and conflicts can be ameliorated. NATO claims it acts defensively in relation to Russian actions. So my feeling is, if we’re going to position ourselves as not knowing, then, that cuts completely both ways. From that perspective, it becomes NATO and Russian say these things about EACH OTHER, and who knows. Not just Russia says this, and who knows.
August 27, 2017 at 10:59 am in reply to: McVay, Goff, Mannion, Reynolds, & Davis … 8/26 … vids & transcripts #73358znModeratorRams Head Coach Sean McVay – – August 26, 2017
(On the decision to sit some of the starters)
“Well, I think with a handful of those guys, there’s a lot of injuries that have taken place or little nicks and things here or there. We made a decision as a coaching staff, what we felt like was best and I thought it gave a lot of guys an opportunity to compete against an excellent team overall. It’s something that you always want to be mindful of because you have such an appreciation for what the preseason represents and how important it is to be able to continue to just try to shape up your game so that by the time the regular season starts you feel good about that. That’s why we put a premium of the way that we practice and doing different things like that, but that was kind of the decision – just being mindful of everything involved in it.”
(On if there is concern that the players who have gotten rest during preseason games will not be ready for the start of the regular season)
“There is and that’s why it’s very important for us, over the next couple weeks to make sure that we can try to get those situations, practice, where you limit the risk of injuries that sometimes you have in some of these preseason games. Guys have to understand how to practice and for the most part, we’ve been really pleased with when we do put the pads on and ramp up the tempo, that we’ve been able to get a lot out of it, while also kind of being mindful of minimizing the risk for injury. Those are decisions that we make collectively as a staff and we’re always trying to do things that we think are best for this football team and having that date in mind against the Colts.”
(On how he thought QB Jared Goff played tonight and if he thinks there is any chance that Goff plays in the final preseason game at Green Bay)
“Those are things that we’ll discuss. Clearly when you look at the body of work – I thought the first drive made a couple off-schedule plays and then you go down and on the third down and goal in the red zone, we get the sack-fumble. We have to do a good job of protecting, but we also have to be ready to step up, hold on to the football and certainly we talk about the importance of turnovers and we have to do a better job collectively taking care of it. Then when you come back the second series, we have a play-action pass on the third play and the ball just sailed on him a little bit and they ended up making a pick. But, I think that what you like about Jared is he is unfazed by that. I think when you look at the sample size, those are the two plays that everybody will talk about. Over the course of a full game, you get a chance to really redeem yourself a little bit more than he did just based on the amount of plays that he played. I think everybody is going to point to those two plays, which clearly we want to try to avoid. But there were some good things. He made a great off-schedule play where he finds (Rcool smiley Malcolm Brown on the wide route and ends up going for a big gain, so there are some positives. We’ve got to do a better job collectively taking care of the football and I’ve got to do a better job of putting our offense in better situations.”
(On what his assessment is of Goff going into the regular season)
“My take is, is I think he’s done a lot of good things. I think he’s improved a lot. I think the sample size is the thing that I’ll continue to go back with. He got a chance to play 35 snaps against Oakland where you can really get into a real rhythm. Even after the turnover with the interception, we ran the football a lot on that drive, had a couple throws. But, I think when you get a chance to kind of really fight your way back from some adversity that you’ve faced throughout the course of a game, those are where you get the best indicators of how a guy responds. I thought his demeanor, the way that he handled it was good and we’re going to continue to grow every single day. Just like I was saying, it’s going to be very important for us to maximize practice if that’s the direction where we go where he doesn’t play against Green Bay next week.”
(On if he thinks that Goff and WR Sammy Watkins were off on the interception)
“I think it was a combination of both. We’ve got to continue to tighten up the timing and rhythm in some of those play actions where you’ve got your three level throws. He was coming on the intermediate crossing route, which we felt like we had a window there and I think the ball just sailed on him a little bit. But everyone has a role that they could have done a little bit better job on and credit them for making the play.”
(On how tough it is going to be to make the decision of which wide receivers make the final roster)
“Yeah, it’s going to be really tough. Those are things that we’re going to discuss over the next handful of weeks. But, those are good problems to have – a lot of guys that can make plays with the ball in their hands and I think you start to see guys show up. (WR) Josh Reynolds and (WR) Pharoh Cooper, you certainly felt them tonight. We know with some of the other guys that we have on this roster and haven’t even had a chance to see (WR) Tavon Austin play. Those are certainly good problems and that’s going to be something that we’re going to be evaluating over the next couple of weeks before we have to cut down to that 53.”(On how impressed he was with WR Josh Reynolds’ touchdown catch and that overall drive)
“It says a lot about Josh because I think there was a couple plays at the end of the first half that he’d like to have back. But, to Josh’s credit, he came back, he made a great catch on the crossing route off of the play action where the safety came downhill and he didn’t flinch, held on to the football and then he comes back and responds by finishing it off with a great route. It was a great ball by (Qcool smiley Sean Mannion with those two connecting again with a big play that almost ended up being the difference in us winning and losing that football game. I thought it showed a lot from Josh in terms of his toughness, both mentally and physically with a couple of those plays.”
(On how he makes an assessment on the defense against a quarterback like Philip Rivers)
“I think they’re a great offense. I have a whole lot of respect for Philip Rivers and what he represents from the quarterback position. We’re certainly not going to make excuses based on not having certain guys available, so I thought it offered a unique opportunity for a lot of guys to play against a high caliber offense. Until you really go back and look at the film, it’s always a little bit more difficult to say, but what you do like is that after a couple early scores they had, they tightened up and I thought they did a nice job responding.”
(On if there is any update on TE Temarrick Hemingway)
“Right now we don’t. He got his ankle rolled up on and we’re going to find out a little later on with what’s going on with Temarrick.”
(On why he had Assistant to the Head Coach Bill Nayes throw the challenge flag instead of him)
“Billy Nayes, who does an excellent job – he’s kind of held that for previous coaches that he’s worked with and he’s my right hand guy. He was quick, ready to roll and he got that thing out there in enough time and I make the joke that my pants are a little bit too tight to fit that flag in there.”
(On if it’s typical that the head coach actually doesn’t have the flag on him)
“I think it’s dependent upon each guy. When I’ve worked with (former Buccaneers Head Coach) Coach Gruden in the past, Jon Gruden – he didn’t hold his own flag. Billy has done that for a couple head coaches that he’s worked with in the past, so I’ll go with his experience on that one. And he’s one-for-one, so we’ll take it.”
(On if he thinks there are still some things unsettled with the right side of the offensive line)
“I think those guys can continue to get work. We always had a plan that we were going to get the left side of the line out and (G) Jamon Brown just had a little tweak in his hamstring. He’s fine, he could have played if it was a regular game, but we would have kept Jamon in there as well with the same amount of snaps that (T) Rob (Havenstein) ended up playing. But, it was more of a product of his hamstring tightened up trying to chase (Chargers DE Melvin) Ingram down on the return. So, that was just being smart with Jamon, but we had a plan for those two to play 20-25 snaps where we knew that we were going to get that left side of the line out a little bit earlier than them.”
(On his assessment was of how QB Sean Mannion ran the offense)
“I thought he did a good job. I thought he played each play as its own individual entity and didn’t let – when some good things happened, he kind of just stayed in the moment and when bad things happened, I liked the way that he responded. But, I think Sean did a nice job just commanding the huddle. He’s gotten a lot of good work this preseason and he’s made a lot of plays, so credit to Sean for that.”
(On how much of the decision to sit the starters was based on the news of Patriots WR Julian Edelman suffering a torn ACL in the preseason)
“Yeah, I think you always want to be careful because it’s that delicate balance between putting guys out there and if something happens and then them getting that experience, being mindful of the regular season. So, you always try to take those decisions into consideration on what’s best for the team. We discuss that as a staff and with a handful of guys, the decision is whether they were a little bit banged up or if it’s guys that have had a lot of experience where we know what they’re capable of – not taking away at all of what the preseason represents, but more getting the chance for some of these other guys to compete. Then, also knowing these guy’s bodies and how we can have them as fresh as possible for September 10th.”
***
Rams QB Jared Goff – – August 26, 2017
(On how he thinks he did tonight)
“There was obviously a couple I’d like back. I felt like we moved the ball really well on that first drive and got all the way down there. Unfortunately, turned it over and they were able to take it the other way but it’s all good stuff to learn from. I think at the end of the day, it’s good to have this stuff happen in the preseason and hopefully it can be avoided in the regular season.”
(On if he thinks he’s done enough to prepare him for the regular season)
“Yeah I think so. I think, like I said, I would’ve liked to have finished the day on a little bit of a better note, but I think in all three games as a whole I feel like I did a good job and feel like I got a lot out of it – got some good work and some good situational stuff. A lot to learn from and a lot of stuff that we can get better from.”
(On if his chemistry is improving with WR Sammy Watkins)
“Yeah. I feel like it’s come a long way though since he first got here. Just communicating with him on and off the field, finding out what he likes, how he plays and how he thinks. And then just getting the reps obviously is always helpful.”
(On if the intercepted pass was a miscommunication)
“No, I just kind of came off it a little bit. I can’t do that. I can’t make that throw. Just a bad throw. I came off it.”
(On if the interception was intended for WR Robert Woods)
“It was to (WR) Sammy (Watkins). I felt someone coming down my throat a little bit and I have to stand in there and throw it.”
(On if he feels like the guys are together and ready to go heading into the regular season)
“No doubt, I think so. I think at the end of the day we’ve done so much situational stuff at practice. I know it’s not the same as a game, but we do so much situational stuff in practice and so much replicating game stuff that we are in that rhythm and that feel. Especially with (Rcool smiley Todd (Gurley) and being in my second year now, I’m in a great feel with him. All the receivers I’ve been able to work with all the way through OTAs up until now, we feel good.”
(On if this game had a different feel because so many guys were out from the start)
“No I don’t think so. I think we came out and again, like I said, we moved the ball right down the field on them on that first drive just like we had in the previous couple of games on the first drives, moved it down the field. Felt good and then ultimately snow balled there on us early, but no, I don’t think so.”
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Rams QB Sean Mannion – – August 26, 2017
(On if he feels like he has a luxury with so many receiver weapons to go to and if he’s able to find his rhythm with all of them)
“Yeah, no question I think that’s been a big emphasis and really with the scheme to it’s getting everybody involved where everybody has plays or formations where they can be a guide and make a one-on-one play for you. For instance, (WR) Josh (Reynolds), he caught the long go ball down the sideline and I’d taken a couple of shots to him prior to that even. So, I think that’s just evident of this offense puts guys in a position, where they can make a play. It’s my job to try to find the right match up and try to find the right look and no one can take that shot.”
(On what WR Josh Reynolds is like as a player and what can he do well)
“He’s a great, great player. I mean really huge catch radius I mean I think that was evident he made an awesome, awesome play going over the middle, just played with awesome toughness and then that same drive came back and caught the touchdown, so that speaks volumes of him to take a shot like that and hop right up and go make another play. But, I think skillset wise, he’s tall he’s lanky. He’s a real fast runner, so I think for catch radius, he’s the kind of guy who goes out and gets the ball with his arms and had the height and the speed to be a vertical threat.”
(On preseason game thre, what he thinks he learned about the team and if he’s making the progressions and finding the consistency needed to start the season)
“Yeah, I think so. I think really through all three of our preseason games so far. I think offensively we’ve done some good stuff. I think we’ve just tried to be consistent and if we run into some adversity just try to over come it and put together another drive – I think that happened a couple times today, where maybe we had a drive where things didn’t go quite right, but we came right back out and we’re able to move the ball. I think it’s been balanced. I think back to week 1 (Rcool smiley Justin Davis ran the ball great. And then we were really efficient in Oakland and then today we were able to put together some sustain drives. You know five plus play drives, like I was saying. So, I think that a good display of a balanced attack which is something we’re trying to achieve.”
(On tonight’s game if he had fun against the rivalry)
“Yeah it was fun – it was a little different in the sense that we had already practiced against them a couple times. Outside of that, we haven’t… its not like we bump into them or anything so everyone ‘fight for LA’ and all that. I guess for the fans that’s probably more evident than us, because we don’t really cross paths with them other than preseason games and practices – but it was cool too, because got to know a good number of those players when we were out there practicing with them and then they came to us. So, some more familiarity and getting to know the guys and they’re some good dudes over there. But, it was fun just to get out there and play in front of that crowd and it was a fun atmosphere.”
***
Rams WR Josh Reynolds – – August 26, 2017
(On him getting more comfortable on the field)
“Yeah, just being able to kind of play the game like I used to in college – just at a more, like higher tempo. So, I’m much more comfortable out there.”
(On how he feels after taking a big hit)
“I was for a little bit, but I mean, just got to shake it off, go to the next play.”
(On if he was surprised that he was able to jump up from the hit as quickly as he did)
“Yeah, oh yeah. (Wide Receivers) Coach (Eric) Yarber always talks about pop-up game. So, hopefully I got the best pop-up game so far.”
(On the touchdown pass from QB Sean Mannion)
“Well, earlier on in the game, he tried a couple attempts, tried getting it to me. I just kind of assured him like, ‘Hey, let’s keep trying to take that shot.’ And then (Head) Coach (Sean McVay) called that play and (Qcool smiley Sean (Mannion) took the shot, threw a great ball and then I was able to haul it in.”
***
Rams RB Justin Davis – – August 26, 2017
(On if he feels he deserves a spot on the 53-man roster)
“Well, the thing about it – I’m never going to be satisfied. Whether or not, I’m going to try to make it my responsibility, so it’s not a hard decision. I’m going to just do everything they tell me to do, day-in, day-out. Come to practice ready, work hard, do everything they say and it’s up to them.”
(On anything specifically that he needs to work on with the time left in the preseason)
“Well, definitely just getting a more mastery of the playbook. There’s some plays I’m still slow on. But yeah, just once I wrap my head around the playbook, get some technique things right with pass protection and ball security. Yeah, those are all things I’m working on every day.”
(On if he gets a sense of what coaches are looking for that will get him a roster spot)
“Yeah, you think of things like that sometimes. Like they say, ‘Oh they want me to be a change of pace,’ or whatever. But, at the end of the day, it just comes down – whatever the coach asks you to do, you can go out there and do it with flying colors. That’s the thing, you just want to be able to get the coach’s trust enough where they can put you in the game without a blink, so I’m just coming in day-in, day-out just making sure I’m on top of my stuff so they can’t, won’t second guess putting me in.”
znModeratorthere’s no convincing evidence that North Korea did what they’re most famous for –- the June 25, 1950 invasion of South Korea, which led to the everlasting division of the Korean peninsula into two countries? And there were no United Nations forces that observed this invasion, as we’ve been taught. In any event, the two sides had been clashing across the dividing line for several years.
We not only do have info on that, we actually have info on the Russian and Chinese responses to them PLANNING to do it.
So I have to say he’s just wrong on this one.
August 27, 2017 at 8:55 am in reply to: Russia’s Attacks on Democracy Aren’t Only a Problem for America #73350znModeratorAll i ask is dont mischaracterize what i post. I called russia a gangster-state. So that ‘means’ something. I didnt call them victims.
But I wasn’t referring to you in saying that. I was referring to their own claim, the one quoted. “…The Russians decided to fight fire with fire, as they saw it…”
Again just discussing the comment, the Russians use all means of attack available to them to defend and expand their sphere. They are not provoked into it to act 2nd…they do what they are capable of doing, while also expanding what they are doing. They’re not fighting back as if under threat with the need to respond, they’re aggressive in the first place.
So everything I said was about that comment. The point being made in that comment is that they react to the provocation of others. That’s just not true. They act within their own sphere, and against others, on the basis of their desire to expand their own power.
BTW, misreading just happens, as it did in this case where (as it looks to me) you thought I had misread you but I think that was you misreading me.
About misreading. It’s never motivated, it’s never blameworthy, it’s never something to indict. It just happens. So all of us at all times in communication like this should be careful to read well (even if that’s just an ideal), to straighten others out if we feel we’ve been misread, and to keep it all free of extra edges. Misreading is a net norm…the trick is to never take it wrong when it happens. And it happens to me all the time. We all communicate with dozens of people a day about these things (or I do anyway), and it’s not just here. We don’t all memorize each other’s positions. Sometimes you just have to calmly repeat yourself. It happens. I know I am constantly in that position. It’s just part of the deal.
….
August 27, 2017 at 7:02 am in reply to: McVay, Goff, Mannion, Reynolds, & Davis … 8/26 … vids & transcripts #73338znModeratorJared Goff Postgame Press Conference
QB Jared Goff met with the media following the Rams’ preseason loss to the Chargers.
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Sean Mannion Postgame Press Conference
QB Sean Mannion met with the media following the Rams’ preseason loss to the Chargers.
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znModeratorznModeratorJared Goff suffers rough preseason finale
RICH HAMMOND
linK: http://www.ocregister.com/2017/08/26/rams-quarterback-jared-goff-suffers-rough-preseason-finale/
LOS ANGELES — A sideline completion, and an “ooh” from the crowd. Alert movement in the pocket, and a 22-yard dump-off, and an “aah.” Jared Goff had two brilliant minutes on Saturday.
The rest was eye-averting stuff. It’s unfair to entirely blame Goff for how quickly, and dramatically, things spiraled against the Chargers at the Coliseum. But in what likely was Goff’s preseason finale — a 21-19 Chargers victory — Goff and his coaches certainly hoped for a more-positive send-off, and instead got stuff that was tough to watch.
“There were obviously a couple (throws) I’d like to have back,” Goff said. “It’s all good stuff to learn from. At the end of the day, you’d rather have it happen in the preseason.”
Goff, in his first series, marched the Rams to the Chargers’ 8-yard line, but then he suffered a didn’t-see-him sack from the Chargers’ Joey Bosa and fumbled, which led to a 76-yard touchdown return and a 14-0 Chargers lead. Bosa charged in, unhindered, from the right side of the Rams’ offensive line.
Given an immediate chance to rebound on the next series, Goff got flattened again, but not before he lofted a pass directly to Chargers cornerback Jason Verrett for an interception.Receiver Sammy Watkins looked around after the play, seemingly indicating that he and Goff had suffered some miscommunication, but Goff said the mistake belonged to him and that he didn’t handle the pass rush well enough.
“I felt someone coming,” Goff said, “and I have to stand in there.”
After the interception, Coach Sean McVay apparently had seen enough. Goff stayed in but, on his next series, the Rams ran the ball nine consecutive times. When the Rams finally risked a pass attempt, Goff got hit hard again but managed a 7-yard completion to Robert Woods.
Finally, McVay had seen enough, and backup Sean Mannion entered in the middle of the second quarter. Goff finished 5 of 8 for 56 yards, and what to make of that?
A Goff optimistic would note the offensive-line breakdown on the Bosa sack, and the possible miscommunication with Watkins, a new teammate, and also note that Goff preceded those turnovers with two impressive completions. Goff hit Woods for a sharp sideline completion and then, two plays later, avoided major pocket pressure, stepped up and found Malcolm Brown for a 22-yard completion.
Goff also was coming off a universally praised effort a week earlier about Oakland, but the fact is the Rams wanted to see consistency and some momentum, and they took a step back.
“He has done a lot of good things (in the preseason) and he has improved a lot,” McVay said.
Goff (and the rest of the Rams’ offensive and defensive starters) almost certainly won’t play Thursday at Green Bay, which means he won’t publicly be seen again until the Sept. 10 season opener.
What should the world expect then? The Rams still seem to have some issues with the right side of their offensive line, with tackle Rob Havenstein and guard Jamon Brown, but the run game looked solid, even without starter Todd Gurley, whom the Rams chose to hold out.
Malcolm Brown gained 44 yards on nine carries and Justin Davis, who is in competition to make the roster, had a couple nice runs and catches.
The Rams also got a strong effort from their offensive reserves, including Mannion and rookie receiver Josh Reynolds.
It’s folly to dissect much the Rams did on defense, because almost all of the starters were on the sideline. Lineman Michael Brockers, all four linebackers (Mark Barron, Connor Barwin, Alec Ogletree and Robert Quinn), cornerback Kayvon Webster and safety Maurice Alexander all missed the game, either because of injury or precaution by McVay.
So the Chargers’ first-team offense carved up the Rams’ reserves fairly easily, with two touchdowns in the first quarter.
The only apparent in-game injury for the Rams was to tight end Temarrick Hemingway, who had to leave the field on a cart, unable to put weight on his left leg. McVay said Hemingway suffered an ankle injury, the severity of which wasn’t known immediately after the game.
August 27, 2017 at 12:23 am in reply to: Russia’s Attacks on Democracy Aren’t Only a Problem for America #73325znModeratorSo I ‘kinda’ understand Russia’s response (so does Chomsky). Still, russia is a gangster-state. A gangster-state responding to being surrounded by a bigger gangster-state.
Well, let me try to be clearer then. That’s the excuse, what you say there. They;re not surrounded or threatened. That poor victim thing is just something they use to justify themselves. It’s not real. They’re aggressors in their own sphere in ways that have nothing to do with any of their public justifications.
Again, Marx on imperialism. There’s no empire. There’s empireS, plural. They compete. One of the ways Russia competes is to justify itself in relation to USA actions. It’s all hollow and transparent. When I see defenses of them, even backhanded ones, all I CAN see is just their own propaganda being repeated.
Sorry it’s a thing I have. Or one of the things I have.
Tell you what. I will give you your next 12 Russia comments free, without saying a word. Deal?
znModeratorRams rest most of their starters in preseason loss to Chargers
Alden Gonzalez
LOS ANGELES — Turns out the “Fight For L.A.” wasn’t nearly as important as the fight for good health.
The Los Angeles Rams sat the majority of their starters in their highly anticipated matchup against the neighboring Los Angeles Chargers on Saturday night, for a third preseason game that is traditionally treated as a regular-season dress rehearsal.
Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum hosted an announced crowd of 58,561, though a rough guess at the number who actually showed up was probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000. And the Rams suffered their first preseason loss by a 21-19 score. Backup kicker Travis Coons, who earlier made a 53-yard field goal, missed what would’ve been the go-ahead 33-yard field goal, and Dan Orlovsky, the third-string quarterback, couldn’t stage a winning drive while backed up deep in Rams territory.
Below is a look at what stood out.
QB depth chart: Jared Goff made a couple of key mistakes and thus ended his preseason on a sour note. On his first drive, Goff — trying to build on a very encouraging performance seven days earlier in Oakland — was stripped by Joey Bosa at the Chargers’ 24-yard line, allowing Melvin Ingram to scoop up the football and return it 76 yards for a touchdown. On his second pass after that play, he threw his first preseason interception while seemingly underthrowing Robert Woods by a wide margin. Goff finished 5-of-8 for 56 yards. He made some impressive plays early, making a 16-yard connection with Woods and showing great pocket awareness to find an open Malcolm Brown for what became a 22-yard gain. But Goff wasn’t consistent, and that’s what the Rams’ coaches need to see from him. Backup Sean Mannion had another solid game, going 16-of-29 for 214 yards and a touchdown.
When it was starters vs. starters, the Rams looked …: Sluggish. But very few of their starters actually suited up, particularly on defense. The only solidified defensive starters on the field were cornerback Trumaine Johnson and defensive back Lamarcus Joyner. On the Chargers’ first series, the Rams allowed Travis Benjamin to beat them badly over the top for a 45-yard touchdown. On the Chargers’ second offensive series, after Goff’s interception, they gained 54 yards on nine plays, finishing their drive with a 2-yard touchdown run by Melvin Gordon. Woods had the best day for the Rams’ first-team offense, with a couple of catches for 23 yards. The offensive line allowed a lot of pressure on Goff, but veterans Andrew Whitworth, Rodger Saffold and John Sullivan played only the first two series.
One reason to be concerned: First-year Rams coach Sean McVay chose to sit most of his starters, and now you have to wonder if they’ve built enough continuity for when games start to count. Nine starters were kept out, including running back Todd Gurley, slot receiver Cooper Kupp, nose tackle Michael Brockers, cornerback Kayvon Webster, strong safety Maurice Alexander and all four of the starting linebackers: Robert Quinn, Mark Barron, Alec Ogletree and Connor Barwin. If you include Aaron Donald, who continues to hold out, 10 of the Rams’ 21 solidified starters will have not played in a game in at least 22 days by the time the regular-season opener rolls around Sept. 10 (assuming no starters play in the preseason finale Thursday). Donald, Quinn, Barron, Webster and receiver Tavon Austin will finish the preseason without playing in any games.
Rookie watch: Josh Reynolds, a fourth-round pick out of Texas A&M, impressed late in training camp and put on a show in one of the Rams’ final drives of the third quarter. Reynolds caught a 16-yard pass across the middle and somehow held on after absorbing a vicious hit by Chargers safety Dexter McCoil, who drew an unnecessary-roughness flag. Three plays later, Reynolds beat Randall Evans over the top for a 38-yard touchdown catch.
Watkins watch: Receiver Sammy Watkins suited up and was one of the last starters who remained on the field, but did not catch a pass and wasn’t really even targeted. Watkins caught two passes for 8 yards in his Rams debut last week.
Injury updates: Tight end Temarrick Hemingway got rolled up on a running play and had to be carted off the field early in the second quarter. Hemingway projects as the third tight end on the Rams’ depth chart, behind Tyler Higbee and Gerald Everett. If his injury is significant, it could open up a spot on the 53-man roster for a veteran like Cory Harkey.
znModeratorJoe Curley @vcsjoecurley
“We moved the ball right down the field on them, just like we had in previous (practices) against them… it just snowballed in us.” – GoffGoff takes the blame for the pick. “I can’t make that throw.” Says he felt he was under pressure.
Goff says he “would have loved to have finished today on a better note” but he thinks he’s put good work in.
McVay credits assistant Billy Nayes for the challenge win. Jokes his pants are too tight to hold the challenge flag
McVay says Jamon Brown’s hamstring tightened up chasing down the Ingram scoop and score. Would have played more.
No update on Hemingway “He got his ankle rolled up on.”
“I think he’s done a lot of good things, I think he’s improved a lot.” – McVay on Goff’s preseason
McVay says Goff made some good plays, despite the memorable negative plays.
McVay doesn’t say if Goff will play against Green Bay.
“We made a decision as a coaching staff, what we thought was best.” – McVay on sitting so many players
Alden Gonzalez @Alden_Gonzalez
Such a great drive by rookie receiver Josh Reynolds. First he takes a vicious hit by Dexter McCoil on a 16-yard catch across the middle, then he beat Randall Evans deep for a 38-yard touchdown. Great ball by Sean Mannion, too.
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0693280586667661162-4Greg Zuerlein finished the first half with a 57-yard field goal, his third of the half, making it 21-9. Tough to make much out of this game because the Rams sat so many of their starters, but Jared Goff finished his preseason on a sour note. And the offensive line wasn’t great, especially on the right side. Defense was mainly backups, but I’m still concerned that their entire defense hasn’t had any time together. RB Justin Davis continues to look good in space and could make for an interesting roster decision. Interesting that Rob Havenstein played so long at RT and that DL Ethan Westbrooks, who looked like a starter throughout camp, checked in later.
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0693273457084864139-4Rams like Justin Davis. But I’m not sure they have an immediate role for him.
The mistakes you cannot make if you are Jared Goff. Third down, ball on the Chargers’ 8-yard line. Joey Bosa strips Goff, and Melvin Ingram scooped it up and returned it 92 yards for a touchdown. RT Rob Havenstein got beat by Bosa. Rams’ coaching staff has preached “consistency” with Goff. This is what they mean. Lots of nice plays to put the offense in the red zone, then a costly mistake.
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0693253934860473330-4Rich Hammond@Rich_Hammond
Rams are 2-0 with Cooper Kupp, 0-1 without.Sean Mannion/Josh Reynolds is the new Jared Goff/Cooper Kupp.
Hard to see how Justin Davis doesn’t make this team.
Ryan Kartje @Ryan_Kartje
So I’d say the #Rams did a pretty good job drafting receivers this year.Goff got his worst throw of the preseason out of the way #brightside
Joey Bosa is a monster.
Philip Rivers has two drives this preseason. Both finished with touchdowns. Only one featured an incompletion.
Gary Klein@LATimesklein
During first Rams-Chargers joint practice Joe Bosa stripped ball from Goff during a red zone drillDani Klupenger@daniklup
I was waiting for @_HattyF to get a pick. He’s had a few throughout camp/practice. Good for him!J.B. Long @JB_Long
If Justin Davis is playing for any *other* squad in September, I hope it’s the #Rams practice squad… fun when he’s in the game.Sean McVay was asked today if #Rams had started game-planning for Colts: “(As coaches)…that started last offseason.” #CantWait
August 26, 2017 at 4:05 pm in reply to: Robinson 'locked in' at left tackle for Lions, per report #73299znModeratorHall of Famer Jackie Slater: Lions Greg Robinson a Pro Bowler
Greg Robinson could be on his way to big things for the Lions.Max DeMara
http://det.247sports.com/Bolt/Hall-of-Famer-Jackie-Slater-Lions-Greg-Robinson-a-Pro-Bowler-106303744
Greg Robinson is picking up the Detroit Lions offense slowly but surely, and NFL Hall of Famer Jackie Slater is impressed.
Slater, a former linemen himself who works analyzing the Los Angeles Rams, spoke to Dave Birkett of the Detroit Free Press and said he has gotten to know Robinson and found him to be a bright player who didn’t have all the answers while playing for the Rams.
With Detroit, though, Slater believes Robinson is on a whole new path with the help of Ron Prince, the Lions offensive line coach. Here’s Slater’s take.
“I watched Greg Robinson quite closely and what I saw was a guy who was expected to do things that he simply was not informed about,” said former Rams offensive lineman Jackie Slater, now the offensive line coach at Azusa Pacific and an analyst with Fox-11 in Los Angeles. “I finally got to meet Greg and talk with him and visit with him and I found him to be an articulate, bright young man who just didn’t have a lot of answers. I believe he’s getting answers now. I’ve had a couple conversations with him, but I believe that Ron Prince is giving him the answers that he needs. And some of what I’ve seen has not been what I saw here.”
Slater is a guy who was wowed by Robinson, as indicated by his lofty expectations for his future which include potential All Pro and Pro Bowl honors.
“As far as talents are concerned, you won’t find a better talent and now what you’re seeing is a guy who is becoming an educated talent, so I have nothing but great expectations for him,” Slater said. “I think he’s going to eventually be a Pro Bowler and an All-Pro player. I think it’s just a matter of time, and I also think that he’s going to be a very difficult decision for the Detroit Lions over the next year or so. I mean, this guy right here is an unbelievable talent that comes along once every decade or so, and he’s the type of guy that’s growing, that’s desperately wanting to get better. All the stars are lining up for him.”
So far, so good for Robinson in Detroit, who seemed to pass his first test with flying colors, playing well in the preseason opener against the Indianapolis Colts. The Lions need Robinson to hold down the for Taylor Decker while he recovers from a shoulder injury sustained during the OTA session.
znModeratorA metaphor for our society, wouldn’t you say?
To complete it, they leave a cheap tip. After having spent all dinner contemptuously dismissing the idea that the minimum wage should go up.
znModeratorI am reading essays by 16-year olds who don’t understand the issues they are writing about.
Since the dawn of time, in life, you have to make choices to be successful.
.
znModeratorConsistency — and improvement — is what the Rams hope to get in exhibition against Chargers
Gary Klein
http://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-chargers-20170825-story.html
The first-game performance against the Dallas Cowboys was brief, lasting only eight plays, and offered a few glimpses of development.
The next game against the Oakland Raiders was an extended opportunity, four series that resulted in three scoring drives.
On Saturday, Rams quarterback Jared Goff will have what is expected to be his final tuneup for the regular season when he faces the San Diego Chargers in a preseason game at the Coliseum.
Coach Sean McVay is looking for one thing from Goff, the No. 1 pick in the 2016 draft.
“You want to just see consistency,” McVay said.Goff, 22, appeared to make great strides last week in a 24-21 victory at Oakland.
He played nearly the entire first half and connected with receivers, tight ends and running backs from the pocket and on rollouts. He completed 16 of 20 passes for 160 yards and a touchdown, but earned his highest praise from McVay for throwing away a pass rather than forcing the attempt and inviting a turnover or sack.
McVay wants more of the same from Goff against a Chargers team that held two joint practices with the Rams during training camp.
“If you can string together good decisions, throw the ball with great timing and rhythm and accuracy, that’s going to give yourself a chance to play the quarterback position at a high level,” McVay said.
[IMG]
Goff was not the only player on offense who performed well against the Raiders. Running back Todd Gurley ran with purpose and caught a pass. The offensive line opened holes and protected Goff.Receivers also stepped up.
Robert Woods caught an early pass over the middle, rookies Cooper Kupp and Josh Reynolds caught touchdown passes and Sammy Watkins continued to work into the scheme.
Goff just missed connecting with Watkins on a pass in the end zone.
“The more reps you get with him, the more he can trust you and the more comfortable he is with throwing the ball to you,” Watkins said. “[It’s great] to have a guy that doesn’t even look your way, just look the safety off and throw you the ball, because he depends on you to be at the right spot.
“So that’s the page that I’m trying to build, and I think we’re moving in the right direction.”
McVay is encouraged by Watkins’ progress — and also by that of the entire offense.
“Last week was positive, but by no means does that mean we’ve arrived,” McVay said.
It is difficult to gauge where the Rams defense is at — and where it might be headed — because so many projected starters have not played during the preseason.
[IMG]
Star lineman Aaron Donald remains absent because of a contract dispute. Linebacker Mark Barron will not play against the Chargers or next week against the Green Bay Packers so that he will be sound for the Sept. 10 season opener, McVay said. Linebacker Robert Quinn and cornerback Kayvon Webster also have not taken a preseason snap.
The first-team defense, which has included a line consisting of tackle Michael Brockersand ends Ethan Westbrooks and Louis Trinca-Pasat, gave up two touchdowns against the Raiders. But cornerback Trumaine Johnson intercepted a pass to set up a Rams touchdown.
The last time the Rams and Chargers were on the field together — for the second of the two joint workouts — three fights broke out. Rams cornerbacks started all of them.
Johnson started the first when he took off his helmet and punched Chargers receiver Dontrelle Inman after they got tangled going for a ball in a one-on-one drill. Nickell Robey-Coleman then pushed Inman, inciting Chargers receiver Keenan Allen to body slam Robey-Coleman to the ground.
Johnson was among the Rams players who said they did not expect a reprise of the fights on Saturday.
“You’ve got to love competing,” he said. “What I hope is that it brings out the best in us, so we’ll see.”
August 26, 2017 at 11:25 am in reply to: Russia’s Attacks on Democracy Aren’t Only a Problem for America #73286znModerator“…The Russians decided to fight fire with fire, as they saw it…”
Well, i agree with this part.
w
vLol. Like they’re latecomers to the game.
I have no excuses for them. If we can’t condemn both equally, to me that means something’s amiss.
…
August 26, 2017 at 8:25 am in reply to: with Phillips there’s substance behind the hype… & more Phillips articles #73281znModeratorone thing that is still bothering me:
If Wade Phillips is all that, why did Denver let him go?
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http://scout.com/nfl/rams/Article/Contract-dispute-led-to-Wade-Phillips-leaving-Broncos-74925463
he Los Angeles Rams last month announced the hiring of Wade Phillips as the team’s defensive coordinator under new head coach Sean McVay for next season.
Much of this came about quickly after the Rams made the decision to hire McVay in early January. In fact, he had been immediately rumored to be his first choice for the position. This came just a couple of weeks after Phillips declared himself readily available on the market after two seasons with the Denver Broncos.
The Broncos under Phillips over the last couple of seasons have boasted one of the league’s top defenses ranking first in 2015 and fourth in 2016. In light of that, KUSA’s Mike Klis has reported that the reason for the 69-year-old’s departure from Denver occurred due to a contract dispute.
Phillips didn’t take the Rams’ job until he learned the Broncos weren’t bringing him back. Here are the events that led to Phillips departure: After his defensive unit was largely responsible for the Broncos winning Super Bowl 50, he asked general manager John Elway for a pay raise and an extension.
Elway gave most of the Broncos’ assistant coaches extensions and raises after their Super Bowl victory, but Phillips was asking to become the league’s highest-paid defensive coordinator by a substantial margin. It was Phillips’ right. The Broncos’ defense was the best in the league.
But it was also Elway’s right to balk. According to multiple sources, Elway gave Phillips an either-or option: An extension or raise, but not both. Phillips took the raise. Once the 2016 season ended and Phillips’ contract was set to expire, the Broncos quickly moved to the Joseph-Woods duo to replace him.
This clears up any mystery in terms of why the process of joining the Rams’ staff was drawn out a bit longer than originally anticipated. The Rams didn’t officially announce the move until a few days later from the initial reports from several major news outlets.
The situation in Denver had become a mutual agreement on both ends for Phillips and general manager John Elway that only gained clarity with the hiring of the next head coach in Vance Joseph, who was the former defensive coordinator for the Miami Dolphins for the 2016 season.
With that decision made for him, it then became a simple choice to join Los Angeles effectively replacing Gregg Williams, who had left a couple of weeks prior taking the same position with the Cleveland Browns. Phillips possesses a wealth of NFL coaching experience that spans over 25 seasons as a defensive coordinator with seven different teams.
He has already made it clear that he plans on altering the Rams’ defense to a 3-4 scheme, which he has made much success running with the Broncos over the last couple of years. Los Angeles had primarily been under the 4-3 defensive formation during Jeff Fisher’s tenure with the team.
Despite the Rams’ significant issues on the offensive side of the ball last season, they managed to finish ninth in total defense, 10th against the pass, and 16th against the run.
znModeratorI see wealthy and powerful people consciously trying to increase their wealth and power, and I see an economic system that makes it easy for them to do this, once they reach a certain critical mass of capital.
None of which is shaping the world the way the constant, multi-faceted, wide and contradictory and complex push and pull within post-colonial nation states is. AND the American, always off balance and out of kelter reaction to it. Those reactions are driven by ideoligcal visions more than any other thing. Fears, wishes, hopes, beliefs, nightmares, misperceptions, and so on. Ideas of stability, ideas of identity, reactions to domination, the desire to dominate in the name of some strange combination of ideals and cynical realism (which is just not really realistic.) That IS history.
So yes we see differently. I never accepted mainframe marxist analysis. I was always much more into the revisers—to be pedantic and name a few names, Althusser, Raymond Williams, Zizek, Bhabba, Bakhtin, & co.
What you and I are going to have to do is nurture those ways in which we talk as allies.
August 26, 2017 at 12:43 am in reply to: Goff: Dallas pre-season game to end of the pre-season #73273znModerator“But Can He Make Music?” Thoughts on NFL Rookie Quarterbacks
MATT WALDMAN
“Have your views about Jared Goff and Dak Prescott changed now that we’ve seen them during the preseason?” Matt answers this question and the deeper one underlying it.
I was wrong to think that Jared Goff was the most pro ready of the 2016 rookie quarterback class. I underestimated the difficulty of the transition from Cal’s Air Raid offense to the Rams’ West Coast system. But I don’t think this is a big deal if you’re focused on the true North of the compass for what matters most for a young quarterback:
Long-term development.
Most people aren’t oriented this way. What we see written and discussed in major media reinforces the fallacy that rookie quarterbacks need to perform well immediately. When a lesser-regarded prospect outperforms a player of higher regard, there’s often a one-to-one comparison of the two and there shouldn’t be.
Quarterbacks are a lot like musicians and it’s problematic to judge two rookie quarterbacks during the rehearsal process. They’re learning how to interact with their band and the performance environment and each band and environment has enough differences that most boom-bust conclusions are short-sighted.
Listen to these two performances and ask yourself which version of “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” is better.
or
Many of you will pick the version that appeals to your ears, your current emotional state, or the instrumentation that you like the best. All of these are valid reasons for liking one over the other but none of them are valid reasons for explaining which one is of better quality.
The quartet is filled with top-notch professionals. I’ve taken classes or private lessons with two of the four players and all of them have played with performers you’ve probably heard of (Frank Sinatra, Miami Sound Machine, Buddy Rich, etc.).
I know for a fact that every member of this quartet is capable of performing Al McClean’s version in a musically compelling way.
Based on what I’ve heard from McClean, I have little doubt he could learn any of the parts for the Miami Saxophone Quartet and fill in without a hitch if they needed a substitute for a gig.
Some of you will say that the quartet was better. There were more examples of rhythmically difficult passages, the four performers were in tune and in time, and there were significant variations to the composition. A few of you might even note that the saxophonist in church with the piano was a little sharp with his intonation.
A really astute observer may note that the saxophonist in the church was intentionally a little sharp so he could create an edge to the overall tone of the piece. Another great point about this performance is that a slow, moody piece with fewer time boundaries requires a more difficult interplay.
It should become apparent to you that asking which version is better is highly subjective. I have a more meaningful question that also leads us back to quarterbacking: Which version is an easier setting for a budding professional to perform well?
When it comes to instrumentation, I can tell you from experience that most saxophonists can switch between the alto and tenor reasonably well but it requires more work to achieve a similar facility with the soprano or baritone. Most saxophonists will tell you that the soprano is the most temperamental of the four.
The quartet possesses strength in numbers, defined tempos, and a sheet music arrangement. Each individual is less exposed if he makes a mistake. The strength in numbers also makes it easier for an individual to make mistakes and recover without derailing the performance.
The more isolated the instrument in a setting, the more demanding the situation when it comes to a player’s sound, his intonation, and his feel for time and story-telling. The solo act with piano accompaniment, no sheet music, and no defined tempo requires a higher level of interplay and leadership. There’s also much greater exposure to the audience when there is a minor mistake.
The differences in environment and setting when comparing Dak Prescott and Jared Goff are a lot like the quartet and the solo act in the church. Prescott is like the tenor player working with a quartet. When featured, he sounds great but the inherent demands on his part aren’t as risky as the other parts.
For most of his preseason snaps, Prescott has been asked to make 1-2 reads on the same side of the field and if neither come open, run the ball. A significant number of Prescott’s snaps featured 3-5 receivers but only 2 left the line of scrimmage.
The most common short and intermediate routes Prescott targeted in these games were screens and underneath zone routes. The big-play routes were one-on-one fades that rely heavily on the athletic prowess of a teammate.
None of this is meant to downplay Prescott’s intelligence or his potential to become a good NFL starter. The fact that Prescott did an excellent job performing the Cowboys’ game plan is encouraging. Teams can win games with strong surrounding personnel and a quarterback who does what Prescott has shown but it’s less reliant on Prescott leading the offense with the same freedom and range of a veteran quarterback.
What Prescott hasn’t shown is whether he can make plays when his decision-making process has more demands of 2-4 reads, full-field reads, 4-5 receivers in routes, and displaying good timing and execution to move from one option to the next. These components of quarterback play are like that ballad with the soprano and the piano–the demands are higher and the potential exposure is more damaging.
Jared Goff is learning an entirely new system. Will Hewlett–a quarterback coach and consultant to high school, college and professional passers–says the transition from the Air Raid system at Cal to a West Coast system with the Rams is like learning Chinese.
If you’ve ever taken language lessons as an adult, it becomes apparent almost immediately that the process sublimate the winning traits of your personality. Learning Chinese? Forget having a quick wit or great sense of humor for months.
Are you known for your sensitivity? You’ll be so busy focusing on what people are saying that you only catch a glimpse of how they’re saying it. Facial expressions and tone of voice are like third and fourth reads for a quarterback at your opponent’s 45 on 3rd and 12 with 1:34 left on the clock, down by 3, and dealing with the potential for A-gap pressure and missing that DE dropping into the flat.
You’re still sensitive, witty, and intelligent. You still have those skills and others but they won’t show up nearly as often when first learning that new language. Goff’s stats show that he’s not handling pressure well and he’s making critical errors but to conclude that he’s lost these skills or analysts were wrong for ever seeing them, glosses over the realities of learning a complex system.
And the West Coast system is the most difficult offense to learn. It’s the most common one in the league because coaches have witnessed how unstoppable it can be when at its best. However, there are few quarterbacks who can run it at that level.
It’s like staring in one band as a tenor saxophonist and then being asked to perform a ballad like the one shown above on the soprano. There are multiple, subtle demands to evoking deep emotions from the audience and the main performer’s flaws are at much greater risk of exposure to the crowd.
Jared Goff’s learning curve is far different but he’s judged along the same standard. RamsWire writer Jeff Smith has done a good job of telling Rams fans to freak out that Goff is the No.3 quarterback after the preseason. Smith is correct that the Rams invested a lot of capital in Goff, analysts (like me) thought Goff was the most pro-ready quarterback in the class, and Goff’s statistics haven’t been good.
But the stats only show that Goff’s results are bad and they way they are presented, there’s a presumption that Goff should display the same qualities that made him productive at Cal. This is a bad presumption.
The Cowboys have asked Prescott to play his best ax as a part of a strong group of players and perform songs with strict time boundaries, comfortable tempos, and tightly rehearsed forms. The Rams want Goff to learn a similar but slightly different and temperamental instrument and perform songs that have a lot more variables.
Goff is doing a lot more thinking than performing and it’s why he’s the No.3 option. If the Rams ownership has a clue, Goff’s temporary tenure as the final backup on the depth chart is more annoying when answering media questions than it is in the locker room.
Jeff Fisher gets his share of media criticism as an overrated coach but he believed in bringing quarterbacks along slowly. He wanted Vince Young to rely more on his brains than his body but Young didn’t become a student of the game. After a great rookie year with the team working around Young’s talents, opposing defenses generated more demands for Young to succeed and he didn’t study enough to meet them.
Steve McNair was a student of the game and he evolved into one of the more underrated pocket passers of his time. McNair didn’t start immediately and there were concerns early on that McNair wasn’t worth the No.3 overall pick in the draft. Fisher and the Titans were patient and it paid off.
Brett Hundley was the No.3 quarterback last year. He’s now considered a promising backup with starter potential. The notable difference in perception between Hundley and Goff is that Goff was the No.1 overall pick and Hundley dropped to the middle rounds in 2015.
Those in the know understand that Hundley was considered an early round talent entering his junior year. If he stayed at UCLA last year, he might have earned a high-round selection.
The public pressure on Goff and the Rams has greater intensity due to the number of picks the team traded to invest in the rookie. But if the Rams ownership and executive team is thinking clearly, they’ll look at Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady’s career arcs.
Neither players was remotely a No.1 overall pick in the draft. Brady began his career as the No.3. Most teams would have spent more on these two players in their prime than what the Rams spent on Goff.
So when readers ask me, “What do you think about Jared Goff and Dak Prescott now?” it’s all about my frame of perspective. For fantasy football, Goff is a player that I’ll monitor. He’s a potential waiver-wire player in re-draft leagues later in the year.
Prescott is at least a temporary starter with actual value in daily fantasy formats. He’s also capable of strong opening month in season-long formats.
In dynasty leagues, I’m still drafting Goff over Prescott and there’s no hesitation. If anything, I’m getting better value on Goff. The bump in Prescott’s value makes him a little less attractive although the opportunity to solidify his future as a starter is a lot more compelling in the immediate present.
Beyond the immediate fantasy implications of late summer and early fall, I stand by the process that led me to the results that I publish every April.
If the Rams give Goff the time the Packers and Patriots gave to their starters–or even Washington inadvertently gave to Kirk Cousins while rushing the process with Robert Griffin III–Goff has the talent to thrive. His pocket presence, accuracy, and feel for the game hasn’t left. The new system is forcing him to think rather than play.
If the Cowboys continue to surround Prescott with a strong band and can spotlight the rookie’s confidence and athletic ability, he’ll succeed this year. If they gradually feed him more options and responsibilities so he can grow into a well-rounded leader of an offense, he develop into a complete player.
Quarterbacking is like making music. Thanks to our digital age, most young quarterbacks have more access to technical coaching, nutrition and training programs, and football theory than their predecessors.
Look at their technique, athletic ability, and understanding of specific offensive ideas in a vacuum and they appear more pro-ready than in the past. But just like musicians who developed the optimal physical techniques to produce a good sound, memorized hot licks, and gained extensive knowledge of harmony, none of it matters if they can’t make it all sound musical.
znModeratorIn Rams’ last real dress rehearsal before season opener, here’s what to focus on Saturday
VINCENT BONSIGNORE
Take a good look at the Rams’ starters Saturday night when they host the Chargers at the Coliseum. Jared Goff, Todd Gurley, Sammy Watkins and all the rest of the first-stringers will play into the third quarter, as is the norm for NFL teams in the third game of the preseason.
But once they leave the field, it’ll be awhile before we see them again.
As in, Sept. 10 when the Rams open the season against the Indianapolis Colts.
That is assuming Rams coach Sean McVay resists the urge to get Goff a few more practice snaps before the season opener. If so, and that seems a safe bet, Goff and the rest of the starters will watch from the sidelines Thursday when the Rams play the Packers to conclude the preseason.
Saturday, then, becomes the final dress rehearsal.
That said, here are some things to focus on with the Rams.
JARED GOFF AND BUILDING ON MOMENTUM
To some, Goff’s performance last week against the Raiders was his official coming-out party as the quarterback prospect the Rams assumed they were getting upon drafting him first overall in 2016.
Goff looked poised and confident while directing the Rams to two touchdowns and a field goal in four drives, completing 16 of 20 passes for 160 yards in the process.
In a hostile environment that pushed him to use a silent count a handful of times, he looked smooth working from the consistent clean pockets provided by an improved offensive line, but also successfully managing the moments he played under duress.
Like when he hastened up his footwork with a pass-rusher barreling down on him, instinctively planted his back foot to create balance, then lofted a perfectly thrown 23-yard pass to Cooper Kupp for a touchdown.
The footwork, the poise, the arm strength and accuracy were rarely apparent during Goff’s rookie season, mostly due to the deficient talent around him and bad coaching. All too often, he played under major fire and had little help.
The Rams have addressed most of the pressing issues, and what we saw from Goff last Saturday is a reflection of those changes and the natural growth of a young quarterback.
Ideally, Goff and the Rams plant another foot in the right direction against the Chargers, enabling them to head into the regular season feeling as good as possible about things.
Much like the confident tone created by the Raiders game.
“I mean, just seeing it come to fruition a little bit and the way we were so efficient,” Goff said. “Like I said again, we were staying in great manageable downs. But, it wasn’t like it was shocking. It’s something that we expected to do. We expect to play like that. We expect to play well, and we expect to move the ball.”
OFFENSIVE LINE NEEDS TO KEEP IMPROVING
According to Pro Football Focus, the Rams’ starting offensive line has allowed just three quarterback pressures through two preseason games. That’s impressive considering the 20 sacks Goff suffered over six games last year and how he continually played under pressure.
The addition of All-Pro left tackle Andrew Whitworth has been a revelation, especially with him replacing one of the worst starting left tackles in the NFL in Greg Robinson. Veteran John Sullivan has been efficient as the new center and Rob Havenstein and Rodger Saffold have been solid at right tackle and left guard. Even Jamon Brown, the new starting left guard, took a positive step in the second preseason game.
“They’re starting to jell, and I think you saw that last Saturday,” Goff said of his offensive line. “The Oakland defensive line is no slouch. They’ve got some dudes over there, and they did a great job keeping them away and giving me a good pocket. It wasn’t just throw it and get hit; it was clean the whole night. It was. No one really around me.”
The Rams face a stiff challenge against the Chargers’ active, talented front seven that features pass-rushing demons Melvin Ingram and Joey Bosa. It’s the ideal test for them in their final preseason tuneup.
TRUMAINE JOHNSON AND THE SECONDARY
Aside from safety Maurice Alexander, who had a breakthrough season, the Rams secondary took a bit of a step back last season after losing cornerback Janoris Jenkins and with fellow cornerback Trumaine Johnson falling short of his 2015 performance.
The coaching change from Jeff Fisher to McVay also meant a defensive shift from Greg Williams’ 4-3 to Wade Phillips’ 3-4. And with it, an entirely new approach in how the Rams cornerbacks are being used.
It would be unfair to categorize it as going from passive to aggressive, but there is no doubt the cornerbacks are much more active and in attack mode under Phillips. And even while injuries and proactive “maintenance” have meant starters and rotational players such as Kayvon Webster and Nickell Robey-Coleman missing preseason games, they’ve both looked good in practice and their backups have played well in the games.
Opposing quarterbacks have challenged Johnson just one time this preseason, and he came up with an interception after easily diagnosing the route and throw by Raiders wide receiver Michael Crabtree and quarterback Derek Carr.
Robey-Coleman has been ruled out for Saturday while Webster’s status will be decided before the game. The group that does take the field will get challenged by veteran Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers, who is itching to play after making a brief appearance in the preseason opener and then sitting out all of the second game.
If Webster does play, it’s a good opportunity to see him operating alongside Johnson in what, on paper and thus far schematically, looks like a better, deeper position than last year.
znModeratorI just wanted to say that Drone Swarms was my favorite 90s punk performer.
znModeratorToday’s empires, OTOH, after the map has largely been solidified — another aspect of “stability” — are now free to work on behalf of international movers and shakers, without concern for national boundaries. Yes, they have to be careful to give the appearance of patriotic planning, lest their own populations kick them out of power. But I have no doubt that what really matters to the governing class is pleasing the internationalist list of plutocrats and oligarchs, and those a bit below them on the wealth and power ladder. They do their bidding and they craft policy with them in mind. But American officials have a much easier time faking the patriotic stuff for this reason, especially:
Most of the movers and shakers, the plutocrats and oligarchs, happen to BE American. And America’s economy overall is still roughly in the neighborhood of a quarter to a fifth of the total. As in, we still dominate the world on total share of the world’s wealth and economic activities, so it’s much easier for American governments to play the game of appearing to work on behalf of one nation. In reality, that governing class doesn’t care about boundaries. It cares about Capital, which crosses all of them.
One of the differences between us is that you have people consciously doing these things, and then consciously hiding them. That’s still old conspiracy theory to me. I don’t see that. I don’t think it ever works that way. It always seems, instead, to be driven by fears, visions, and haunting beliefs. So the people with power are just as much victims of ideological beliefs as anyone else in the process is.
I also think that if we ignore the effects of post-coloniality in all this, it just means we end up with a false picture. No one in the first world can just directly count on being able to economically and/or militarily dominate anymore. They are in constant negotiation/conflict with the many-headed forms of resistance, counter-movement, and conflict that shakes the post-colonial world in various ways and places all at the same time. Telling an all western story, even a leftist one, is just one more western ideological vision.
Either way, back to an old point, it’s not empire anymore, it’s hegemony, which is a much looser and stranger and unstable process.
In terms of our own lives it still gets down to policies. Citizens United, neo-liberalism, trade policies. Change those and the thing is all different.
It’s a low point but no more permanent than anything else has ever been. Like every other change no one has any idea what comes next…so much so, that as often has been true in the past, the ones who think they have an idea about that are among the biggest problem causers.
There’s always more to say on these things.
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August 25, 2017 at 9:01 pm in reply to: with Phillips there’s substance behind the hype… & more Phillips articles #73264znModeratorI too like what I hear about WP’s ability to teach, but I don’t like it at GW’s expense.
i don’t think i’m really putting down williams at all. i did say he likes to scream a lot. and from the quotes, i think it pretty much was do it williams’ way or get out. and from the limited footage i saw with hard knocks and all or nothing, yeah it pretty much was that. a lot of screaming and threats. and that’s not to say that players didn’t like williams. it seems that they did. and i’m sure williams’ approach worked as well.
but yeah. i think phillips will be that much better than williams.
I’ve heard too many good things about GW’s coaching from players. I know the reality shows edited it to seem a certain way. I don’t think that picture matches what players have said about him over the years. I remember watching that stuff on tv and wincing because I saw they had an agenda with the few minutes they showed of him with players. That’s not how players talk about him and it has been many.
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