Forum Replies Created
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AuthorPosts
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wv
ParticipantI dont think he will be hard
to replace.I bet they sign a big,
giant, huge, run-stuffer.
They dont need anymore
‘penetrators’: they got
Donald, Hayes, Long and Q.
What they need is to stuff
the Run.w
vwv
ParticipantTo me every bit of that could be written with a positive spin and therefore with different conclusions.
I for one never thought of Brockers as a “penetrator.”And I don’t see the problem with him being a 4/3 nose.
I also don’t do the “where he was picked” game. The Rams needed a DT, when Donald came aboard they needed a 4/3 nose, those are not easy to find, I am okay with the pick.Well, I’m a little disappointed in him.
I got caught up in the hype. Thot he’d be more
dynamic.w
vwv
ParticipantI don’t think so. I think that is one of their biggest downfalls. We always talk about how the Rams commit the same mistakes over and over again, but there isn’t anyone in the huddle to hold their feet to the fire. There is no one in the locker room willing to assume the alpha position. They need it desperately. But I don’t see it one the horizon. Maybe Aaron Donald will be that guy. But, honestly, I don’t see that role being filled any time soon.
Agreed.
I was ‘really‘ impressed with the Seahawks
and Patriots. The leadership, the guts, the professionalism,
the intelligence, the poise….Man.I know the Rams can get to the “bengals-level” next
year. Ie., playoffs — but can they get to the
Seahawks/Patriots level?One could argue they are close, as evidenced by the
wins over the Seahawks, but then those wins
are always followed by losses. And more losses.I dunno. We’ll see.
w
vwv
ParticipantI am unmiscible
I had to look that up. Good word.
Excellent work, even
for a Heretic.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immiscible
w
vwv
ParticipantShouldn’t the Rams have two picks in the first round? This one pick thing doesn’t seem like as good an idea.
Trade Janoris to the Jets for
the Jets first three picks.Thats what I’d do.
w
vwv
ParticipantThose two teams have some
great leaders.Do the Rams?
w
vwv
Participantwv
ParticipantMartz mentioned that the league is cyclical and the league
is bending back toward the running game.Martz: “theres a lot left out there in the running game that coaches just aren’t doing”
w
vFebruary 25, 2015 at 6:55 pm in reply to: NFL will 'sweeten the pot' to keep the Rams in St. Louis #19087wv
ParticipantReally?
Be careful what you wish for.
We started ballot propositions in California in the late 70s, so that we could pass bills that them damn politicians won’t or can’t. Great idea.
Now we get Safe Drinking Water initiatives that are backed by astroturf “citizens groups” that get their money from Monsanto, and propositions to reform education financing, only there will suddenly be 3 propositions on the same ballot that all claim to do great things for education reform, all with poison pills that will have to be litigated, and backed by carefully concealed interests, and to be honest, I don’t think most California voters actually read the complete text of each proposition before making their voting decisions.
And if the stadium goes to a vote in Inglewood, it will all be about traffic congestion, and crime, and drunkenness, and business revenue, and taxes in versus taxes out, with all kinds of tv commercials claiming completely different things with no way of knowing if anybody is even trying to tell the truth, and even if they are, if what they are saying is actually accurate because who the hell can figure any of this out?
So the real vote will be on “Do you want the NFL, specifically the Rams, right here in Inglewood, or not?” because that’s all most of the voters will care about, and all the other issues are just going to be market tested to find out where it is worthwhile to invest advertising dollars to bang a drum long enough to chip off a percentage of undecided voters.
If you want that kind of democracy in West Virginia, you are welcome to take California’s version of it, as far as I’m concerned.
What we’ve ended up with here is a lot of voters thinking they know more than the legislators, and that they can budget better than the state government can (cuz gov’t misappropriates all the $), and a lot of good causes got voted intractable amounts of the general budget to the point that our state government can’t actually govern anything anymore, and the voters have gone and misspent the money worse than the government ever did, and there’s nothing that can be done about it.
—————
Ok, well then
i changed my mind.I just want to decide
everything myself.wv ram makes all the
decisions. a wv-ram-ocracy.My decision is:
Rams go back to LA
and wear blue and white.San Diego stays in San Diego
and they wear the old Lance Allworth Uniforms.Raiders stay in Oakland.
Dallas moves to St.Louis
and become the St.Louis Stallions.Washington changes its name to
the Washington Cowboys.Dallas fans can root for Houston.
Problems solved. Give me a beer.
w
vw
v-
This reply was modified 10 years ago by
wv.
February 25, 2015 at 6:40 pm in reply to: NFL will 'sweeten the pot' to keep the Rams in St. Louis #19085wv
Participantforgive my ignorance but how does one file a referendum?
do you need a specified number of people to file or can just one person file?
I have no idea, but I like the idea of everyone
going over to Zooey’s lawn and hashing things out:Referendum — Wiki
….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum
…Although some advocates of direct democracy would have the referendum become the dominant institution of government, in practice and in principle, in almost all cases, the referendum exists solely as a complement to the system of representative democracy, in which most major decisions are made by an elected legislature. An often cited exception is the Swiss canton of Glarus, in which meetings are held on the village lawn to decide on matters of public concern. In most jurisdictions that practice them, referendums are relatively rare occurrences and are restricted to important issues. Most popularly disputed form of direct popular participation is the referendum on constitutional matters.[2]…w
vFebruary 25, 2015 at 4:32 pm in reply to: NFL will 'sweeten the pot' to keep the Rams in St. Louis #19072wv
Participant========================================
LaramThis was sent to me by someone in my office. Sorry Admins no link.
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http://www.pe.com/articles/repeating-754888-san-diego.html
RAMS: History is repeating itself
Rams equipment manager Todd Hewitt (right) and assistant Jim Lake pack up the team’s equipment in early 1995 for the move from Anaheim to St. Louis.
Published: Nov. 23, 2014 Updated: Nov. 25, 2014 12:16 a.m.
SAN DIEGO — Small crowds. Struggles on the field. And rumors, almost daily, about the home team’s future destination.
Hey, St. Louis? We’ve been there.What that Missouri city is experiencing now, as rumors of the Rams’ relocation (re-relocation?) to Los Angeles, continue, is exactly what the team’s Southern California fan base experienced in 1993 and ’94, during the last stages of the team’s 49-year tenure in Los Angeles/Anaheim.
Really, the seeds of SoCal’s loss of the Rams began more than a decade before the deed was actually done. When Carroll Rosenbloom decided to move the team from the Coliseum to Anaheim Stadium, effective with the 1980 season, the deal included the rights to develop part of the Big A’s parking lot—a deal that drew protests from the Autrys, owners of the Angels. (Arte Moreno may appreciate the irony.)
That development never took place, and ultimately—when the city of Anaheim built what is now Honda Center and lured an NHL expansion team (now the Ducks)—the Rams leveraged it into an escape clause that would allow them to break their lease with 15 months notice and a $30 million reimbursement to the city of Anaheim, the unpaid debt involved with the expansion of the stadium for football.
By this time, Georgia Frontiere was in charge. She’d inherited the team from her late husband, Rosenbloom (and subsequently remarried). And I will forever remain convinced that Georgia and her henchman, John Shaw, intentionally degraded the product on the field to facilitate a move.
By the time This Space took over the P-E Rams beat from the esteemed Matt Jocks in 1993, the team was coming off two losing seasons, after a decade in which the Rams won or contended for division titles and drew strong crowds to the Big A (even with the Raiders carving up the market after their move to the Coliseum in 1982).
Chuck Knox was the coach, in his dotage as an NFL coach. The quarterback, Jim Everett, was on the descent. The cornerback, Darryl Henley, was about to be indicted for his part (along with a Rams cheerleader) in a cocaine distribution ring. Jerome Bettis was a rookie, future Hall of Famer Jackie Slater was injured, and most of the rest of the roster was a sea of mediocrity.
It was in this environment that, in the middle of the 1993 season, the rumors began. Before a November 1 game in San Francisco, CBS’ NFL pregame show reported that the Rams had been in contact with Baltimore, which was hedging its bets if it had lost out in expansion (which it ultimately did, with Jacksonville being picked to enter the league with Charlotte).
That brought the bizarre scene of Shaw, the team’s executive vice president, addressing beat writers on a concourse outside the locker room tunnel in Candlestick Park, denying the rumors.
“That is totally true, 100 percent untrue,” Shaw said. “There’s been so many rumors about the sale of this team, the movement of this team in the last 15 years, that really nothing surprises me … (A Baltimore writer) asked me if we had a lease we could get out of. I think we answered that, ‘Yes, for a lot of money.’ ”
Not that much, as it turned out. And a little over a month later, Shaw confirmed that, indeed, the Rams had been contacted by representatives from not only Baltimore but St. Louis and Memphis.
“We have not asked (Anaheim) for anything,” Shaw said then. ” . . . I don’t want to give the impression that we’re negotiating lease concessions or anything like that with the city, because we’re not.
“We’re just going to have to make a decision at some time as to whether this situation here, even if it was modified or changed, would be such that we could ever be competitive.”
Ominous words, reinforced later that month when Frontiere told the Los Angeles Times that a move was “something that you have to consider. It’s just a fact of life. People do look at other possibilities in life.”
(Then again, the Rams management in those days was positively chatty compared with the current version. Owner Stan Kroenke, whose purchase of 60 acres near Hollywood Park and reported negotiations for 300 additional acres have spurred the latest Rams-to-L.A. rumors, has been equally ominous in his silence.)
Going into the 1994 season, it was pretty much assumed that the moving vans were assembling. The team finished 4-12, and average attendance was 42,312, “the remnants of a fan base alienated beyond repair,” I wrote in a 2004 reminiscence of the final year.
A curious confluence: During that 1994 season, the Los Angeles Rams played (and won) a game in Kansas City Sept. 25, and members of the St. Louis media crossed the state to eyeball the city’s potential next NFL team.
Flash forward to 2014. The Rams and Chargers play in San Diego this afternoon, and a check of the Qualcomm Stadium parking lot before the game showed a lot – a LOT – of fans wearing Rams gear. And maybe 35 to 40 percent of it was in the team’s current navy blue and old gold colors. The vast majority? The royal blue and yellow colors the team wore in Los Angeles and Anaheim.
One fan behind the Rams bench during warmups held a sign: “Come Home Rams (to) L.A.” Another draped a “Los Angeles Rams” banner over the railing momentarily.
At least one Rams booster club is here in force, holding a tailgate in Lot P3 (the word having been spread by the “Bring Back The Los Angeles Rams” page on facebook.
Yes, St. Louis, we feel your pain. Sort of. Just not enough to lift a finger to stop the repossession.
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This reply was modified 10 years ago by
wv.
wv
Participant<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>wv wrote:</div>
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draftRang, Kirwin, Brugler Mock:
Rang Amari Cooper
Kirwin Andrus Peat
Brugler Kevin Whitew
v<span class=”d4pbbc-font-color” style=”color: blue”>got that. 4 posts ago.
</span>
Who do you think the “safest” pick is at 10, Ag ?
A “cant miss” guy.
w
vFebruary 25, 2015 at 2:48 pm in reply to: NFL will 'sweeten the pot' to keep the Rams in St. Louis #19061wv
ParticipantAny opponents of the Inglewood plan, dubbed the City of Champions Revitalization Project, now have 30 days to file a referendum to force a public vote.
Per LA Times
Ok, that sounds more democratic.
I assume Spanos will pay someone
20 dollars to “file a referendum.”I was just griping to someone today
about California. It seems like yall
get to vote on things out there.
Referendums on this and that.
We dont get to have ref-erendums in WV.I’d like to start a referendum about
giving us the right to have referendums.w
vwv
Participanthttp://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft
Rang, Kirwin, Brugler Mock:Rang Amari Cooper
Kirwin Andrus Peat
Brugler Kevin Whitew
vwv
ParticipantYeah….. Saffold and this guy at Guard. T-Rob and Long/Barksdale at tackle. That would make us one center away from getting me really excited
Yeah, that’d be a good way to go.
But would it be better than, say,
taking White/Cooper at 10,
and then taking the best Guard/Tackle with
the 2nd round pick,
and a QB with the 3rd rd pick ?Btw, fwiw, i still like the idea
of bringing in Josh Freeman.
I mean, why not?
w
v-
This reply was modified 10 years ago by
wv.
wv
ParticipantWell, there’s some really nice
options, here. I got no problem with the Iowa kid.Mariota is a bit of a wild-card,
it looks like. He could slide
just a bit. If he’s there
at 4 or 5, I wonder if the Rams
would trade up?w
vwv
ParticipantWell, i agree with Pollan that we haven’t had
“a real debate” in this country about GMOs.Anyway, whats your reaction to Pollan’s thots
in this vid, Nittany?-
This reply was modified 10 years ago by
wv.
wv
ParticipantFor the life of me,
i cannot imagine the Oakland Raiders
moving to the midwest.
That just seems surreal.
I dont take it seriously.w
vFebruary 25, 2015 at 8:01 am in reply to: NFL will 'sweeten the pot' to keep the Rams in St. Louis #19029wv
ParticipantFebruary 25, 2015 at 7:55 am in reply to: NFL will 'sweeten the pot' to keep the Rams in St. Louis #19027wv
ParticipantI dont understand the bolded sentence, but there it is.
I mean, how can five voters ‘sidestep’ all that environmental stuff?w
v================
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/story/_/id/12378821/inglewood-city-council-oks-fast-tracking-st-louis-rams-backed-nfl-stadiumINGLEWOOD, Calif. — The Inglewood City Council late Tuesday night approved plans to build a football stadium that includes St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kroenke as a partner, clearing a path for a return to the Los Angeles area of the NFL for the first time in two decades.
The council approved the $2 billion plan with a 5-0 vote after a meeting with several hours of public comment and many vocal Rams fans wearing jerseys in attendance.
The vote adopts a new redevelopment plan without calling a public vote, effectively kickstarting construction and sidestepping lengthy environmental review of issues such as noise, traffic and air pollution.
It adds the 80,000 seat, 60-acre stadium to an existing 2009 plan to redevelop the former Hollywood Park racetrack site with homes, offices, stores, parks and open space and a hotel.
Kroenke is part of the Hollywood Park Land Co. development group that is promoting the project.
New urgency came to the issue last week with the announcement that the Oakland Raiders and the San Diego Chargers are planning a shared stadium in suburban Carson if they don’t get their current hometowns to cough up enough money to replace their aging stadiums. Another stadium plan remains alive for downtown Los Angeles, but has no team attached.
Stadium proponents said it is important to approve the concept as soon as possible to avoid delays in the redevelopment that already is underway. They would like construction to start by year’s end to have a venue ready for the 2018 football season.
A Feb. 20 consultants’ report to the city manager backing the stadium notes that the developer, not the public, would pay the cost of building the stadium and says the plan would allow the city — once home to the Los Angeles Lakers and Los Angeles Kings before they moved to Los Angeles — “to continue its legacy of providing the region with world-class sports and entertainment.”
The consultants also conclude that no new environmental impact reports — which are costly and often take months or even years — would be necessary.
The review also said the stadium would bring the city more than 10,000 jobs and tens of millions of dollars a year in new tax revenue.
wv
ParticipantA guy on reddit redid them in photoshop. He did a better job. http://imgur.com/a/Jx2U6
Here’s the Rams “new” one.
Interesting.
That one could be their “throw-forward” one.
The blue and whites could be the “throw-back” one.w
vwv
Participant==============================
The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/01/life-in-the-sickest-town-in-america/384718/
Sickest Town in AmericaI drove from one of the healthiest counties in the country to the least-healthy, both in the same state. Here’s what I learned about work, well-being, and happiness.
Olga Khazan
Donald Rose has no teeth, but that’s not his biggest problem. A camouflage hat droops over his ancient, wire-framed glasses. He’s only 43, but he looks much older.
I met him one day in October as he sat on a tan metal folding chair in the hallway of Riverview School, one of the few schools—few buildings, really—in the coal-mining town of Grundy, Virginia. That day it was the site of a free clinic, the Remote Area Medical. Rose was there to get new glasses—he’s on Medicare, which doesn’t cover most vision services.
Remote Area Medical was founded in 1985 by Stan Brock, a 79-year-old Brit who wears a tan Air-Force-style uniform and formerly hosted a nature TV show called Wild Kingdom. Even after he spent time in the wilds of Guyana, Brock came to the conclusion that poor Americans needed access to medical care about as badly as the Guyanese did. Now Remote Area Medical holds 20 or so packed clinics all over the country each year, providing free checkups and services to low-income families who pour in from around the region.
When I pulled into the school parking lot, someone was sleeping in the small yellow car in the next space, fast-food wrappers spread out on the dashboard. Inside, the clinic’s patrons looked more or less able-bodied. Most of the women were overweight, and the majority of the people I talked to were missing some of their teeth. But they were walking and talking, or shuffling patiently along the beige halls as they waited for their names to be called. There weren’t a lot of crutches and wheelchairs.
Yet many of the people in the surrounding county, Buchanan, derive their income from Social Security Disability Insurance, the government program for people who are deemed unfit for work because of permanent physical or mental wounds. Along with neighboring counties, Buchanan has one of the highest percentages of adult disability recipients in the nation, according to a 2014 analysis by the Urban Institute’s Stephan Lindner. Nearly 20 percent of the area’s adult residents received government SSDI benefits in 2011, the most recent year Lindner was able to analyze.
According to Lindner’s calculations, five of the 10 counties that have the most people on disability are in Virginia—and so are four of the lowest, making the state an emblem of how wealth and work determine health and well-being. Six hours to the north, in Arlington, Fairfax, and Loudoun Counties, just one out of every hundred adults draws SSDI benefits. But Buchanan county is home to a shadow economy of maimed workers, eking out a living the only way they can—by joining the nation’s increasingly sizable disability rolls. “On certain days of the month you stay away from the post office,” says Priscilla Harris, a professor who teaches at the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, “because that’s when the disability checks are coming in.”
But if this place has the scenery of the Belgian Ardennes, it has the health statistics of Bangladesh.Just about everyone I spoke with at the Grundy clinic was a former manual worker, or married to one, and most had a story of a bone-crushing accident that had left them (or their spouse) out of work forever. For Rose, who came from the nearby town of Council, that day came in 1996, when he was pinned between two pillars in his job at a sawmill. He suffered through work until 2001, he told me, when he finally started collecting “his check,” as it’s often called. He had to go to a doctor to prove that he was truly hurting—he has deteriorating discs, he says, and chronic back pain. He was turned down twice, he thinks because he was just 30 years old at the time. Now the government sends him a monthly check for $956.
Each classroom at Riverview School had a different specialist tucked inside—in one, an optometrist measured eyes with her chart projected on the classroom wall. She showed me a picture she took in a nearby town of a man who, unable to afford new glasses and rapidly losing eyesight, had taped a stray plastic lens over his existing glasses. The clinic had brought along two glasses-manufacturing RVs where technicians could make patients like Rose a fresh set of glasses, including frames, in just a few hours.
As for his teeth? Rose’s diabetes loosened them. “They went ahead and pulled them all,” he said. He assured me that being toothless was not as grave a life-change as the toothed might imagine it to be.
“I can still eat a steak, trust me,” he says. “I use my tongue and my gums.” … see link for rest of article…
================
top ten, bottom ten
http://www.well-beingindex.com/alaska-leads-u.s.-states-in-well-being-for-first-time-
This reply was modified 10 years ago by
wv.
February 24, 2015 at 5:09 pm in reply to: NFL teams are most reluctant to take advantage of analytics #18975wv
Participant“Data helps us make informed decisions”….. all teams should collect analytical data to help with the decision making process.
Hard to believe some teams are still skeptical.
Well all the writing on this subject,
when it comes to football,
is kinda vague. I mean, I’d
like to read some specific examples of how
and when it’s “worked”.
What exactly are they measuring? How does it
differ from the old tried-and-true methods?w
v-
This reply was modified 10 years ago by
wv.
wv
ParticipantYeah, its a fascinating issue. I am always perplexed by it.
But I’ll say this — I would put the ‘burden of proof’ on
the GMO Corporations to PROVE its safe. I would
not put the burden on the consumers.I’d also make the GMO Corps stop fighting honest,
open and accurate Labeling of their products.
Why are they fighting that? Let consumers have
a choice and decide for themselves.Personally, like i say, I doubt if there is a problem
with most GMO food. But i do think, sooner or later
there will be a problem. Just a guess though.One of the things i’d discuss with that Pro-GMO-writer
is — he makes it seem like this is a debate about “science”.
But there is no “pure food science,”
there’s only science-mixed-with-mega-Corporations.
And the Corporations have a long record
of lying about…um….everything.w
v-
This reply was modified 10 years ago by
wv.
wv
ParticipantI received 2 text messages last night from fellow Rams fans, (way back Ram fans) that actually like this new concept…. I could not believe it.
Unbee-lievable, Joe. That is just really hard to believe.
Whoever made that design had zero
appreciation of the Long history
of the Rams. I swear.Thing iz, that design is wrong on MULTIPLE
levels. I mean, even if you WERE gonna
piss on the long tradition and history of the Rams
and toss out the horns — that particular heretical
design is comical. I once saw a design like that
on a little plastic helmet i got out of a gumball
machine a coupla decades ago. It looked just
like that. I was pissed off about back
then even though it was just a tiny
little plastic rams helmet.I agree with Nittany.
w
vwv
ParticipantPic: Birdman
Dir: Birdman
Actor: Eddie Redmayne
Sup. Actor: JK Simmons
Actress: Julianne Moore
Sup. Actress: Patricia ArquetteAnd no one cares about the rest of them.
Nice job, Zooey.
6 for 6.
You must really know your films.
Damn.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/2015-oscars-complete-winners-list/story?id=29148491
w
vwv
ParticipantSt. Louis Rams: Andrus Peat, OT, Stanford
The Rams have devoted a lot of picks to their defensive line and now can do it on the other side of the ball. Since there isn’t a quarterback worth taking, it makes sense for St. Louis to improve its blocking. Joe Barksdale could leave in free agency and that would open a hole at right tackle…
——————–I’d be fine with Peat or one of the other top OT/G’s
but are any of them really significantly better than
the next tier OLinemen?I dunno, but it sure seems like this is the year
to trade down and pick up another draft pick.I mean, if they could even pick up a 3rd round pick
it might lead to a damn fine RB or WR or LB.w
vFebruary 23, 2015 at 1:46 pm in reply to: McD on the Super Bowl: "patience and never run horizontally." #18928wv
ParticipantIt’s Brady, yes. But it’s also Belichek.
This is what the guy does. He prepares his team to prevail. He prepared his offense to beat SEA’s defense. How?
By having discipline and patience based on a remarkably simple, yet profound key: go vertically. And take a bit at a time. This isn’t talent, nor is it scheme, per se. It’s just seeing the angle to take to beat what the other guy does well.
That TEAM is ALWAYS ready to maximize its chances of success. ALWAYS.
People talk about QBs lifting teams. Well, a coach like Belichek raises the ceiling of his team–whatever its talent level–a story or two at all times. He gives them an angle to focus on, calls on them to be patient and trust their preparation, and commands discipline and execution.
In the NFL, coaches matter more than any 3-4 players. The great coaches get their teams playing competitive, disciplined football at all times, maximizing their capability.
We’d do well as Ram fans to remember that!
Well, Belichick is the genius
on defense,
and Brady is the brains of the offense,
and together,
they really annoy me.w
vFebruary 23, 2015 at 1:15 pm in reply to: McD on the Super Bowl: "patience and never run horizontally." #18925wv
ParticipantA pervasive theme, IMO, is the mental side of the game. Specifically, dealing with the whole risk/reward dynamic.
Brady is fascinating on this. You HAVE to take chances. And you WILL make mistakes. But be patient, be confident, trust each other and the game plan. And execute when it counts.
That’s what winning is. A team that does that.
We gotta a long way to go to get to that level.
There’s somethin ‘different’ about Brady.
I dunno what it is, but sometimes
he just seems like a computer or somethin.
He seems like the smartest guy on the field.
Faulk was like that, maybe.Do the Rams have anybody even
close to that now? I dunno.w
vwv
ParticipantHere’s an interesting article on how they pick the best picture which might surprise one.
http://www.goldderby.com/cms/view/209/
Apparently the “preference” method of voting does not insure the movie that gets the most 1st place votes wins. If a movie consistently garners a 2d place preference and the 1st place movie is placed below the second place movie on some ballots the 2d place movie wins apparently because it has the highest “value”. At least that’s how I get it.
Your favorite five movies,
Waterfield. (As of this second,
but subject to change ten seconds
after you’ve listed them)
What would they be?w
v -
This reply was modified 10 years ago by
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