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wvParticipant================================
http://noglory.org/index.php/articles/346-how-the-uk-government-is-rebranding-the-first-world-war-to-promote-militarism-today
How the UK government is rebranding the first world war to promote militarism today……
…What, you may ask, is wrong with celebrating heroes in this way?
War to end all warsIt is an attempt to rewrite the history of the war as somehow glorious and necessary. The war was an ugly clash of imperial rivalries, marked by the unspeakable horrors of trench warfare. Far from proving “the war to end of all wars”, it scarred a nation whose sons would be sent to die against the same enemy within a generation.
Veterans also tend to baulk at their lauding as “heroes”, explaining themselves more humbly as men just doing their jobs and looking out for their comrades. Great War memorials rarely record either rank or medals, but are starkly simple alphabetical lists of all those who had their lives taken from them. By singling out only those men who received the top military award, the government is tearing up a century of practice.
Why has the government taken this radical departure? The answer is in part a reaction to the public scepticism about military operations that has become mainstream with the failures of the “War on Terror”. The unprecedented anti-war demonstrations against the Afghanistan and Iraq wars in the early 2000s may represent a sea-change in public attitudes to foreign wars. This has alarmed conservative politicians of all parties and the military top brass, who have been scrambling to regain ground ever since….. see link
wvParticipantLilly is an out-of-the-box thinker for sure.
He will probably introduce Sensory Deprivation tanks, ketamine-induced-visions,
and various dolphin dialects to the Offense.w
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John C Lilly
…Career overviewLilly was a physician and psychoanalyst. He made contributions in the fields of biophysics, neurophysiology, electronics, computer science, and neuroanatomy. He invented and promoted the use of an isolation tank as a means of sensory deprivation.[4] He also attempted communication between humans and dolphins.[5] His work helped the creation of the United States Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972.
Lilly’s eclectic career began as a conventional scientist doing research for universities and government. Gradually, however, he began researching unconventional topics. He published several books and had two Hollywood movies based partly on his work. He also developed theories for flotation.
Lilly published 19 books, including The Center of the Cyclone, which describes his own LSD experiences, Man and Dolphin, and The Mind of the Dolphin which describe his work with dolphins.
In the 1980s Lilly directed a project which attempted to teach dolphins a computer-synthesised language. Lilly designed a future “communications laboratory” that would be a floating living room where humans and dolphins could chat as equals and where they would develop a common language.
Lilly envisioned a time when all killing of whales and dolphins would cease, “not from a law being passed, but from each human understanding innately that these are ancient, sentient earth residents, with tremendous intelligence and enormous life force. Not someone to kill, but someone to learn from.”[6] In the 1990s Lilly moved to the island of Maui in Hawaii, where he lived most of the remainder of his life.
Lilly’s literary rights and scientific discoveries were owned by Human Software, Inc., while his philanthropic endeavors were owned by the Human Dolphin Foundation. The John C. Lilly Research Institute, Inc. continues to research topics of interest to Lilly and carry on his legacy.
ResearchAfter graduating from the University of Pennsylvania, Lilly was forced to stay on as a member of the faculty working under Dr. Detlev Bronk for 19 years of indebted servitude, conducting priority military research for the U.S. Air Force.[citation needed]
During World War II, Lilly researched the physiology of high-altitude flying and invented instruments for measuring gas pressure. After the war, he trained in psychoanalysis at the University of Pennsylvania, where he began researching the physical structures of the brain and consciousness. In 1951 he published a paper showing how he could display patterns of brain electrical activity on a cathode ray display screen using electrodes he devised specially for insertion into a living brain. Furthermore, Lilly’s work[7] on electrical stimulation of the nervous system gave rise to biphasic charge balanced electrical stimulation pulses (later known as “Lilly’s wave” or “Lilly’s pulses”[8] ), which is currently an established approach to design of safe electrical stimulation in neuroprosthetics.[9]
Development of the sensory deprivation tank
Allen Ginsberg, Timothy Leary, and John C. Lilly in 1991
In 1953, Lilly began a job studying neurophysiology with the US Public Health Service Commissioned Officers Corps. At the N.I.M.H. in 1954,[10][11][12][13] with the desire of isolating a brain from external stimulation, he devised the first isolation tank, a dark soundproof tank of warm salt water in which subjects could float for long periods in sensory isolation. Lilly and a research colleague were the first to act as subjects of this research. What had been known as perceptual isolation or sensory deprivation was reconceptualized as Restricted Environmental Stimulation Technique (R.E.S.T.).[14]
Lilly later studied other large-brained mammals and during the late 1950s he established a facility devoted to fostering human-dolphin communication: the Communication Research Institute on St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands. During the early 1960s, Lilly and coworkers published several papers reporting that dolphins could mimic human speech patterns.[15][16] Subsequent investigations of dolphin cognition have generally, however, found it difficult to replicate his results.[citation needed]
S.E.T.I.
Lilly was interested in the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (S.E.T.I.) project. In 1961 a group of scientists including Lilly gathered at the Green Bank Observatory to discuss the possibility of using the techniques of radio astronomy to detect evidence of intelligent life outside the Solar system. They called themselves The Order of the Dolphin after Lilly’s work with dolphins. They discussed the Drake equation, used to estimate the number of communicative civilizations in our galaxy.[17]
Exploration of human consciousness
In the early 1960s, Lilly was introduced to psychedelic drugs such as LSD and (later) ketamine[18] and began a series of experiments in which he ingested a psychedelic drug either in an isolation tank or in the company of dolphins. These events are described in his books Programming and Metaprogramming in the Human Biocomputer: Theory and Experiments and The Center of the Cyclone, both published in 1972. Following advice from Ram Dass, Lilly studied Patanjali’s system of yoga (finding I. K. Taimni’s Science of Yoga, a modernized interpretation of the Sanskrit text, most suited to his goals). He also paid special attention to Self-enquiry meditation advocated by Ramana Maharshi, and was reformulating the principles of this exercise with reference to his human biocomputer paradigm (described in Programming and Metaprogramming in the Human Biocomputer: Theory and Experiments and The Center of the Cyclone).
Lilly later traveled to Chile and trained with the spiritual leader Oscar Ichazo (whose attitude to metaphysical consciousness exploration Lilly characterized as “empirical” in his book The Center of the Cyclone). Lilly claimed to have achieved the maximum degree of satori-samādhi consciousness during his training.
Lilly’s maxim: “In the province of the mind what one believes to be true, either is true or becomes true within certain limits. These limits are to be found experimentally and experientially. When so found these limits turn out to be further beliefs to be transcended. In the province of the mind there are no limits. However, in the province of the body there are definite limits not to be transcended.”[19]
Solid State Intelligence
Solid State Intelligence (S.S.I.) is a malevolent entity described by Lilly (see The Scientist). According to Lilly, the network of computation-capable solid state systems (electronics) engineered by humans will eventually develop (or has already developed) into an autonomous bioform. Since the optimal survival conditions for this bioform (low-temperature vacuum) are drastically different from those needed by humans (room temperature aerial atmosphere and adequate water supply), Lilly predicted (or “prophesised”, based on his ketamine-induced visions) a dramatic conflict between the two forms of intelligence.[citation needed]
Earth Coincidence Control Office (E.C.C.O.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly
wvParticipantMy great grandma considered herself a Red Guard Finn. She used to take part in secret meetings and sorts of shenanigans that the Canadian government used to fear back in the day.
http://warfarehistorian.blogspot.ca/2014/02/finlands-civil-war-1918-red-white-suomi.html
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Interesting link about the Finnish Civil War and “Kinship Wars”. I did not expect to be learning about such things today.The Internet. Ya just never know.
That finland-war-thingy seemed quite complicated. Kinda like the spanish civil war.
…i couldn’t find anything on the symbols or insignias of Finland’s Red guard. I’m always curious about flags, symbols, etc.
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“….Finland’s Civil War left an indelible mark on the young nation’s psyche especially for such a small country. 35,000 Finns would perish in the civil war and the Kinship Wars, around 1 percent of the total population of the country at that time. Less than half of this number would be killed in engagements with the enemy, many more would perish in executions, persecutions, disease, or by famine throughout the conflict.An independent Finland would remain a divided society long after the painful memories of the civil war had faded. Communist constituents gained seats in the republican government for many years thereafter and enjoyed a large and loyal following amongst the industrial workers and laborers of Finland until well into the 1980’s. White Guard and Jäger veterans of the civil war and the Heimosodat dominated army leadership until the 1960’s and their White political representatives would dominate Finland’s upper echelon of politics for many years after. The last White Guard President of Finland was Urho K. Kekkonen (1900-1986) who served as the 8th president of the republic from 1956-1982….
wvParticipantNow Trump has chickened out of the debate with Bernie.
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Yeah, i was surprised Trumps handlers were gonna let him try that.
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wvParticipantI get how you feel about Clinton or for that matter anyone out there that might be considered a moderate democrat. But I really posted the article because of my concerns over a Trump presidency. Of course the Clinton haters can and will dodge that issue and use it as a vehicle to attack Clinton. As I said earlier the attack on middle of the road democrats are -on this board- far more intense than the spectrum of Trump becoming President. That scenario is far scarier to me than Clinton ever could be. Of course there are those who say its hopeless, the system is rigged. Even the opening sentence in your post is “were out of time on climate change”. Well I’m not as cynical as you and I don’t believe we are “out of time”. The part that is given is that climate change is here to stay. But we can do things to not further escalate it at the pace we have been going. A Trump presidency may well further the escalation at an even faster pace. But maybe climate change and the continued pouring of fossil fuels into our atmosphere ain’t all that important to you. That seems to be the case when you casually state its all over and “were out of time”.
The one thing I notice about my “moderate” republican and democrat friends is that they are not susceptible to “group think”. They are mostly independent thinkers who believe in some policies advanced by republicans and some by democrats. And they even disagree among themselves on issues. However my far right -and I mean far -as in tea party-relatives (wife’ side) in Arizona and Colorado are all on the exact same page on every single issue. I sense the same with the progressive left.
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So, this kind of thing is ok with you?
“Big oil companies like ExxonMobil and ConocoPhillips have given millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation, as have Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich nations in the Middle East. Thursday brought the latest exposé on this issue from the International Business Times, which reports on donations from Pacific Rubiales, a Canadian oil company accused of human rights violations in Colombia. Pacific Rubiales’ founder, Frank Giustra, now sits on the Clinton Foundation’s board. IBT reports, “After millions of dollars were pledged by the oil company to the Clinton Foundation — supplemented by millions more from Giustra himself — Secretary Clinton abruptly changed her position on the controversial U.S.-Colombia trade pact. Having opposed the deal as a bad one for labor rights back when she was a presidential candidate in 2008, she now promoted it, calling it ‘strongly in the interests of both Colombia and the United States.’” A cynic would say oil companies are buying influence with the Clintons without being subject to campaign finance laws. A Clinton defender would point out that the foundation gives away this money, it isn’t going into Hillary Clinton’s pocket or her campaign account.”
8 things you need to know about Hillary Clinton and climate change
wvParticipantIf elected. For those of us who are genuinely concerned about our environment and its impact on our work force and-for that matter-all of us -this is what the guy’s goals are on the subject.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-clinches-nomination-05262016-snap-story.html
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We’re out of time on climate change. And Hillary Clinton helped get us here
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/07/out-of-time-climate-change-hillary-clinton…A new paper from Oxford University, published in the journal Applied Energy, concludes that for humanity to have a 50-50 chance of meeting the temperature targets set in Paris, every new power plant has to be zero-carbon, starting next year.
That is hard. Really hard. At a bare minimum, it requires a willingness to go head-to-head with the two most powerful industries on the planet – fossil-fuel companies and the banks that finance them. Hillary Clinton is uniquely unsuited to this epic task.
While Clinton is great at warring with Republicans, taking on powerful corporations goes against her entire worldview, against everything she’s built, and everything she stands for. The real issue, in other words, isn’t Clinton’s corporate cash, it’s her deeply pro-corporate ideology: one that makes taking money from lobbyists and accepting exorbitant speech fees from banks seem so natural that the candidate is openly struggling to see why any of this has blown up at all.
To understand this worldview, one need look no further than the foundation where Hillary Clinton works and that bears her family name. Its mission can be distilled as follows: There is so much private wealth sloshing around our planet (thanks in very large part to the deregulation and privatisation frenzy that Bill Clinton unleashed on the world while president) that every single problem on earth, no matter how large, can be solved by convincing the ultra-rich to do the right things with their loose change. Naturally, the people to convince them to do these fine things are the Clintons, the ultimate relationship brokers and dealmakers, with the help of an entourage of A-list celebrities.
The problem with Clinton World is structural. It’s the way in which these profoundly enmeshed relationships – lubricated by the exchange of money, favours, status and media attention – shape what gets proposed as policy in the first place…. see link
wvParticipantHi, Billy. How you doing? And how’s the island doing?

Well, the old gang is all here, I suppose. Now all we need is GRITS to post regularly…you know, that guy is still believing the Rams are going back to LA. Crazy fucker…
Oh, wait…
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The Rams will never go back to LA. I’m tellin ya, football failed there.
The Rams are in St.Louis to stay, and all the LA talk is just smoke and mirrors.Kronky is FROM Missouri, for goodness-sakes. He’s NAMED after Stan the Man.
This is just a no-brainer.
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wvParticipantSome Irish folk will take Trump expats, too. I just got back from there two days ago.
Epic vacation, great people, great beer…even the driving on the left from the right seat was enjoyable…
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What was the most memorable thing about the trip?
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wvParticipantLook, as the board socialist-anarchist-cake-examiner,
It is my job to make sure Pa-Ram cuts fair-and-equal pieces
for all of us. I have measured all the pieces of CAKE so far,
and it appears that Pa-Ram has given himself the biggest piece of Cake.
In fact PA-Ram’s piece of cake is 90 percent of the entire cake.
Then the rest of us have pieces that amount to less than One percent of the cake.I call for a Cake-Revolution. This kind of cake-a-tocracy cannot be allowed
to stand. I call for a Redistribution of the Cake.I mean, does PA really think we will fall for his “well if I get 90 percent of the cake, that means many many crumbs will fall to the rest of you” routine?
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wvParticipant“TurfShowTimes
@TurfShowTimes
Jeff Fisher is nine losses away from having more career losses than any coach in NFL history.”Let’s hope it takes him more than one season to get the record.
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Yeah, there’s probably a lot of ‘loss’ records he either owns
or is closing in on.But i think most of us on this board agree he’s not a ‘bad coach’.
He’s just not. Despite the Record, which includes a lot more mediocre records than good ones, and despite the many years since he’s had a playoff team.He is not a bad coach. He’s a losing coach most of the time,
but…there’s a reasonable explanation for that 🙂Some folks are just “you are what your won-loss record says you are” types
and to them, thats as far as it goes. And i got no problem with that. Let a thousand flowers wither and be eaten by 17 year locusts.Personally, though, I think the won-loss-folks are in for some
confusing times over the next five years. Cause i think the LA Rams
are gonna be looking pretty good, pretty soon. Not sure about this year, with a rookie QB, but I think good records are coming soon.And wouldnt it be ironic if Fisher started putting playoff teams on the field year after year — and then he got fired after three or four Ten and eleven win seasons. I could see that happening. I could see him being a playoff-coach but not a Ring Winner, and i could see people getting sick of “that”.
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wvParticipant2nd berman vid
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Geezus. The first video gets a pass from me. His meltdown was probly justified, but that second one was bad.Its almost like he’s not the Hero i had always imagined. Ya know.
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wvParticipantYeah, Denmarkians are happier and have a better quality of life
and they do it all better. Most Smart people know that. Its a given.Now the real issue To ME, is not whether and why Denmark (and other nations)
are Better than America — the issue to ME, is how and why the
corporate-media in America PREVENTS joe and jane amerika from KNOWING
this stuff. Denmark is totally completely uttlerly and forever-ly off the radar
in the corporate-media. They dont cover it. It might as well be Pluto.Now why would that be?
Why do only certain nations exist to the corporate-media? Iran exists. North Korea exists. Iraq exists. Israel exists. Mexico exists. Some others.
But nations like Denmark? The ones that have a higher quality of life — not allowed to examine that or look at that, or show the joe and jane amerika anything about that.
Strange, aint it.
Ask joe or jane amerika what they associate ‘socialism’ with and they
will say Stalin or Hitler. Thats all they know. Other than, “its Failed everywhere”.w
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This reply was modified 9 years, 11 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipanthttp://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
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I passed that “smug liberal” article on to a young grad-student friend of mine.
Just thot I’d pass along here spontaneous reply to it (for those that read the article) (…i also mentioned to her that i hate the word ‘neoliberal’ coz i think it confuzes the peepulz)===============
Yeah… I wasn’t sure what to think of it at first either. But I think I figured out why something about it seems off to me.I think he’s absolutely right when he says it’s misguided to blame poor rednecks. I think where he goes wrong is in saying we should instead blame the smug liberals. The problem isn’t “smug liberals,” just as it isn’t “poor rednecks.” Blaming the individual is the problem. Blaming the individual is…. neoliberalism.*
See, this is why I think we need that word. I don’t think this guy understands the big picture — the system, the ideology. This dude would have written a much better article if he had that framework to work with. Maybe he wouldn’t have had to use that word you don’t like, but certainly if he could write this piece, he could use the concept of neoliberalism to frame his criticisms and communicate essential parts of the concept. But he doesn’t see it, he’s too stuck in it to see it and misses the point entirely. That’s why he blames those smug liberals for their misguided blaming of dumb rednecks, when he should really be blaming the system.
If I could rewrite this whole article, I would say, “Rich educated people who vote Democrat like to smugly blame poor people for voting against their own interests. But the reason they blame poor people is because that’s what neoliberal ideology trained them to do so that they won’t question the fucked up neoliberal economic system that produces poor people.” But maybe that article wouldn’t have gotten on Vox. (I don’t know who owns Vox.)
I don’t think we can get out of the mess we’ve created for ourselves unless more people can “see” the ideology for what it is, and have some way of discussing/communicating it. I don’t know if your preferred term “corporate-capitalism” quite covers it or not. It’s just a part of the puzzle. Another part of the puzzle is that there is a very problematic over-emphasis on individual effort and “freedom.” Pointing the finger at corporations breaks it down into something more concrete and real, but I think maybe it does that at the expense of understanding how ideology shapes the way we think about the world and about things like individual freedm. Maybe. I don’t know. It’s late and I’m tired.
*If you would like to stop receiving emails containing variants of the word “neoliberal,” please send youtube videos of baby animals doing cute things. No neoliberal baby animals, please.
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wvParticipantWell, we can’t afford any of those programs because we are richer than Denmark. So forget it.
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LoL
Sometimes u hit chords as perfectly as Tom Tomorrow.
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wvParticipantThis is good. The more the establishment bashes Trump the more support he garners across the political spectrum.
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I dunno about that. There is a reason Obama never went all ‘attack-mode’
during his campaigns. He could have, but he didn’t. Now, maybe its
just his personality, but i kinda think the algebra favors a calm,
milk-toasty candidate in the end. I mean, sure the rightwingers love it when Trump is attacked and when Trump goes on the attack. The leftwingers (like me) dont care. We already sided with Sanders a long time ago. So who is left? Who will decide the election? The middle-ground, milk-toasties. And my ‘guess’ is, the algebra shows they dont like ‘attackers’ or bombastic-scary candidates.
I mean there is a reason Trump has ‘reined it in’ a bit, right? His handlers are trying to negotiate/maneuver/decide whether and how much “to let trump, be trump” i bet.I could be wrong, of course. I dont really follow campaign-algebra stuff, i just shoot from the hip based on my gut.
PS — i dont think trump is stupid, and i think its a mistake when people think his is or write that he is. I think he’s smarter than Reagan ever was, or G.Bush II. I do think he has huge blind spots, probly in foreign policy, but a lot of candidates have had huge blind spots and still won elections.
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wvParticipantYou know what made me hold my smile an extra beat,
when Kaepernik fumbled on the goal-line?..
… Just thinking of the pain it caused
Chris Berman.Yes.
Schadenfreude Ram
wvParticipantHappy b-day, Pa.
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wvParticipant… People need to realize that Trump is all campaign and no leadership…
… just said things out of his ass because that’s how you do business, by telling people what they want to hear…—————
Well, Reagan didnt have a plan either, and just told people what
they wanted to hear, and he got himself elected that way.So that formula can work just fine.
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wvParticipantI dont watch debates, but yeah that interesting.
Why no Hillary?
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wvParticipantThe training of lawyers:
An interesting personal experience that validates WV’s post on how lawyers are trained to think: First day in law school and first class -Torts. Literally weeks had gone into my preparation for this first day. Mostly out of fear. Read all the cases, outlined them, even researched the issues in the library and ended up “knowing what was right”. Come to class which had about 60 people. Professor Kleinberg tells everyone to close their books and put away all written material they have brought. He then brings out a wooden spoon and a wooden fork. He starts by calling each student by name to stand up and tell him what they see. The first 20 or so students say roughly the same thing:” I see a wooden spoon and a wooden fork” Sometime around half way through the session a middle age woman stands up and says: I see two utensils”. Then someone else gets the idea: “I see two tools”. Another:”I see pieces of art”. Still another: “I see two weapons”, etc,etc. After class there was a rush to the podium with many asking the prof. what about the cases I spent so much time reading and outlining? Kleinberg says: ” if by the end of this semester you don’t understand the exercise we just went through you should not be a lawyer”. I went to his retirement not long ago and-you guessed it-he brought out his wooden “utensils”. (He also confessed that when he was a young student at Yale that same exercise was trust upon his initial class)
True story.
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Good story.
I remember i didnt really figure out what my law-professors meant by “thinking like a lawyer” until about half-way through my first year. I mean, it took me that long to figure it out. Coz the teachers always acted like it was a great mystery that we had to ‘discover’ or figure out….
It annoys me that they treated it like a zen koan,
instead of just stating flat out, that it means learning
to see cases from all kinds of angles and being creative in how
you interpret arguments and patterns and stuff.I do like the spoon thing, but I would have followed that up
with a plain, straight, explanation-example of what the point is/was.w
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wvParticipantYes, that was a very good article.
American politics is disgusting. In a fair and open-minded arena, the media would be fawning over Sanders the underdog. Instead, he’s held nearly in contempt. How dare he continue to challenge the anointed Democrat? Hillary has “paid her dues.” … What’s amazing is that Trump could be president simply because he’s facing Hillary. And, the only way she wins is sounding more and more like Sanders. Surreal.
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Its like a Salvadore Dali painting,
aint it.Only instead of flaming giraffes and melted clocks,
we got melted Clintons and flaming Trumps. And stuff.w
vMay 26, 2016 at 7:40 am in reply to: Les Snead on Brian Quick "I was thinking Vincent Jackson." #44719
wvParticipantI suppose we’ll find out once team activities start.
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My wild-speculation is…he’s not very good.
I just wasn’t impressed with his several-game-streak of catching
some balls. I mean, none of the catches made me go “wow, that guy really
did something special there.”w
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wvParticipantI fixed yer applause gif in the Great Bean Thread. Just wanted to be sure you knew.
If you want I can tell you how to avoid that error.
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We know you and PA speak in code. No one will be fooled by your
sly post.“I fixed yer applause gif in the Great Bean Thread.
Just wanted to be sure you knew.
If you want I can tell you how to avoid that error.”
Translation: The dynamite is in the applesauce. Package arrives on the snow-mobile. Avoid smoking near the ducks.
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wvParticipantLook at the ACA–people want something done. A system where insurance executives make tens of millions every year while Americans struggle to pay or can’t pay for medical makes no sense.
And the system that Clinton supports and defends–the ACA–doesn’t really solve anything. Americans are still struggling to pay the rising costs of prescriptions and medical care.
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Obama-care is a crock of @@@@. I know this because i have conversations with working-poor every week. The pro-Insurance crowd likes to remind everyone of how millions of people are now “covered by health insurance”. Which sounds good. (Course there’s still millions who are not covered)
But when I have actual, real conversations with those folks “covered by health insurance” i get story after story after story about, how someone was sick and they went to a doctor and the doctor wrote a prescription and the prescription cost, like $500 bucks and it was not covered by the “health insurance”. Five hundred bucks may not seem like a lot to ‘middle class’ people, but real actual poor people cannot pay that. They are already in a hole.
I hear that story so often if it wasn’t so infuriating, it would be funny.
Its very simple — Wealthy people should…not…get…to live longer,
just because they inherited a bunch of money. Wealthy people should…not…get…better health care than poor people.
Its…wrong. It astounds me that people can twist and turn and rationalize a way of ignoring that.In the richest nation in the history of humans, certain things should not
be left to ‘the market’. Even in a capitalist country. Health care, dental care, education, and probably energy are some of those things.w
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wvParticipantI think your wrong on that Zooey. I believe she’s battle tested and has already been attacked by the Senate and House on those precise statements-to no avail. My perception of Sanders in the White House is him sitting there in a tweed jacket smoking a pipe with invited post grads philosophizing about all that’s wrong and what he “intends” to do. Mike Tyson once responded to a reporter who asked about an opponents “plans” -he said plans are good-until your hit. Politics and governing -especially in this country-is all out warfare. Clinton has been hit over and over again even before she was senator. Each time she has gotten up and hit back. She is tough as nails. I don’t see Sanders in that vein. He’s never been to war. Nor has Stein. For that matter neither has Trump. I would rather have a tough pragmatist who has been tested in combat than an idealist who has never been to war. She is the only one the democrats have nominated in a long long time, including Obama, that has the balls to tell the Republicans to go fuck themselves. And she will.
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I know you are talking to zooey, but, I’ll butt in — my two cents iz…i couldnt care less how “tough” Hillary Clinton seems. Or how “battle tested” Hillary Clinton seems to be.
I loathe the POLICIES she believes in and has fought for. The Policies.
Personally, i dont care about her “toughness” at all.At any rate, none of her “toughness” is going to mean anything to a Republican Senate. They will oppose her policies the same way they would oppose Bernie’s policies. I doubt either Hillary or Bernie would get much done. But at least Bernie would be fighting for the right policies.
Hillary would be STARTING with Republican-Lite policies, and the Reps would start from the HardCore-Rep part of the spectrum, and ‘tough’ Hillary would ‘compromise’ and we’d end up with ‘moderate republican’ policies. No thanks.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 11 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipantI stayed during eight years of Bush. I can handle Trump.
What is it you like BEST about trump. I’m not talking about personality
or “he stands up to the system” cliches. I mean, what actual, real,
POLICY do you like best.He’s against NAFTA and those hideous trade agreements, right? I do
like that about him. Or am i wrong about that?w
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wvParticipantWV,
…In short, we need an economic system that has social justice and democracy baked in, and no longer forces dependencies on everyone…————–
Agreed.
And now, I am done ‘thinking’ for the day.
It is time for me to eat raw corn and watermelon,
and sit on the patio,
and watch the white clouds in the blue sky.So far, the blue sky is still free.
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“Work is not always required….there is such a thing as sacred idleness,
the cultivation of which is now fearfully neglected.” George McDonaldMay 25, 2016 at 5:38 pm in reply to: Keenum will be the starter to open camp…how close or far is Goff? #44683
wvParticipantWell, its mainly fluff so far, but still, so far, so good.
I’m sick of seeing this btw:
“…But it wasn’t just about the throws. The fact that Goff helped bring Cal from an 11-loss team his freshman year to winning the program’s first bowl game since 2008 speaks volumes about his leadership ability…”
No, it does not speak volumes about his leadership. Hundreds of QBs have
gone from one win seasons to a five-win season, to an eight-win season.
Happens all the time in College football. Young teams grow up and get
better, the coach has a good recruiting year, blah blah blah.It doesn’t necessarily say anything about Goff’s leadership.
Having said that, sure, Goff looks like a good leader. His team mates
seem to like him a lot. So….so far, so good.w
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wvParticipantAlong those lines, question for ya:
Do you think it would be effective, at all, to talk about our history of anti-capitalist activism, or the fact that America itself wasn’t a predominantly capitalist nation until after the Civil War? ..
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I think it just depends on the audience. On a message-board full of readers and critical-thinkers i think you can talk about anything. (Even the H-Back or the Prevent Defense). But if you are trying to ‘persuade’ or convince or change the minds of the ‘masses’ — well, I got nuthin. Its really, really, really, hard. I mean, they…dont….care…about ‘academic’ or ‘history’ stuff. They are trying to survive. They need a JOB. They will frack or strip mine or be a scab or work in a toxic factory — they just need to EAT. They need to feed their son and daughter. Think about the audience.
So, to be a ‘persuader’ or ‘activist’ is a tough, tough, gig.
There’s a reason Hillary AND Bernie, have a tough time getting votes
in the coal-fields. Its the “central cunundrum” that Kaufman alludes to in the quote above — Ie, its hard to fight capitalism or tell people they should fight capitalism — when they need a Capitalist to LIVE. To eat. To survive.I dunno, though. At this point I’m just happy if the minimum wage goes up a penny. Thats how screwed up the public iz.
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I pledge allegiance to the earth,
And to the flora, fauna, and human life that it supports,
One planet, indivisible,
With safe air, water, and soil,
Economic justice, equal rights,
And peace for all.
wvParticipantWV,
Again, thanks for the quote — and yet another new writer for me to look into.
:>)
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Cynthia Kaufman has a version of her book on Capitalism somewhere online. I mean a draft of the book is online, so you dont have to buy it. But i cant find it. I must have lost it. I found it on one of her sites a long time ago. Her book is built around what she calls the “central conundrum”.I enjoyed the book. She made it very accessible for the average reader
which makes it INVALUABLE in my view. Way too many abstruse, overly-intellectual, difficult-Reads out there on “capitalism”. Nothing is gonna change, imho, until intellec-chuals learn to talk to ‘poor-people.’ Gandhi was good at that. King was good at that. Hitler, i suppose. 🙂Whoever can communicate with the masses,
wins. Which doesn’t necessarily mean ‘dumming things down’. Just communicating effectively. Which requires all kinds of traits, in the communicator. I think. I dunno. I got nuthin, really. My plan really is to pull up a rocking chair, sit on my porch, watch the birds, and try and pick off as many zombies as i can before the end.w
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“…In a society dominated by capitalist logics, people will generally see that
their interests are served by the election of candidates who are able to provide a context in which business can be successful. They tend to vote this way because of capitalism’s central conundrum: getting a job from a capitalist is the most likely way one can get what is needed to survive in a society dominated by capitalist processes.Elections then serve the owning class in two powerful ways. They help
stabilize the capitalist economic structure by putting people in power who will
prioritize protecting the conditions for capital accumulation. And elections also help to legitimate the system by showing that the majority has freely chosen capitalist priorities. Only if anti-capitalist forces are able to transform society such that people’s well being is not dependent upon capitalists to provide them the resources they need to survive, will working class people ever vote to get rid of capitalism. Przeworski shows that we don’t need a functionalist theory of the state that posits an all powerful bourgeoisie which is able to always get its needs met by the state, or a complex theory of how the masses are tricked by a false
consciousness set in place by bourgeois forces, to understand why European
voters have not chosen to abolish capitalism. Instead the explanation for why
people choose capitalism is quite simple: it is in their short-term self-interest.Przeworski’s analysis helps us to understand the real place that
challenging capitalism is difficult. The problem is not simply that capitalism is protected by a “capitalist state.” His analysis shifts our attention from the state to the economic dependencies created by capitalism. This analysis leaves us with an understanding of the state as an important site of contestation, but not as the central fulcrum point for anti-capitalist action.….” Cynthia Kaufman -
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