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  • in reply to: LAPD UNION attacks Mayor for his criticism #115941
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    inthesetimes:http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/17520/police_unions_racist
    Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015, 5:00 am
    Blood On Their Hands: The Racist History of Modern Police Unions
    BY Flint Taylor

    Outraged by New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio’s statements concerning the killing of Eric Garner, Patrick Lynch, the longtime leader of the New York City Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association (PBA), the NYPD’s officers union, recently made the outrageous assertion that the Mayor had “blood on his hands” for the murder of the two NYPD officers.

    In Milwaukee this past fall, the Police Association called for, and obtained, a vote of no confidence in MPD Chief Ed Flynn after he fired the officer who shot and killed Dontre Hamilton, an unarmed African American; subsequently, the union’s leader, Mike Crivello, praised the District Attorney when he announced that he would not bring charges against the officer.

    In Chicago, the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP), a longtime supporter of racist police torturer Jon Burge, is now seeking to circumvent court orders that preserve and make public the police misconduct files of repeater cops such as Burge, by seeking to enforce a police contract provision that calls for the destruction of the files after seven years. And in a show of solidarity with the killer of Michael Brown, Chicago’s FOP is soliciting contributions to the Darren Wilson defense fund on its website.

    Such reactionary actions by police unions are not new, but are a fundamental component of their history, particularly since they came to prominence in the wake of the civil rights movement. These organizations have played a powerful role in defending the police, no matter how outrageous and racist their actions, and in resisting all manner of police reforms.

    New York

    In June 1966, New York City Mayor John Lindsay, responding to widespread complaints of police brutality, called for a civilian review board. Five thousand off duty NYPD cops rallied at City Hall in opposition, and the head of the PBA, leading the campaign against civilian review, intoned that “I am sick and tired of giving in to minority groups, with their whims and their gripes and shouting. Any review board with civilians on it is detrimental to the operations of the police department.” Invoking the specter of increased crime, the PBA mounted a massive public relations campaign against the measure, and it was defeated in a referendum that year.

    In 1975, in response to proposed budget cuts that included police layoffs, the PBA ordered a rampage through the city’s black and Puerto Rican communities, with thousands of off duty cops waving their guns, banging on trash cans, and blowing whistles for several nights until Mayor Abe Beame obtained a restraining order.

    Ten years later, after Mayor Ed Koch revived the issue of civilian review in the wake of a white cop killing Eleanor Bumpurs, an elderly and mentally ill black woman, the PBA again condemned the idea, staged a work slowdown in response to the attempted prosecution of the officer, Stephen Sullivan, and pressured Koch into reinstating Sullivan even though he had been criminally charged with the killing.

    In 1992, when David Dinkins, the first (and only) African-American Mayor of New York City sought to implement a civilian review agency to investigate allegations of police misconduct, the PBA organized another City Hall rally in protest. This time, the crowd of officers numbered 10,000, with PBA members hurtling barricades, jumping on cars, blocking the Brooklyn Bridge and kicking a reporter. Some of the rally’s participants carried signs showing Dinkins with a bushy Afro haircut and swollen lips, with racist slogans, including ones that ridiculed him as a “washroom attendant.”

    In the mid-1990s, the independent Mollen Commission, appointed by Mayor Dinkins to investigate police corruption, documented widespread police perjury, brutality, drug dealing and theft in the NYPD, and found that “by advising its members against cooperating with law-enforcement authorities, the P.B.A. often acts as a shelter for and protector of the corrupt cop.” These findings were seconded by senior NYPD officials and prosecutors who were quoted by the New York Times as saying that they would continue to “have trouble rooting out substantial numbers of corrupt officers as long as the P.B.A. resists them.”

    The Times further quoted these officials as complaining that the PBA, “fortified with millions of dollars in annual dues collections . . . is one of the most powerful unions in the city. As an active lobbyist in Albany and as a contributor to political campaigns, the P.B.A. has enormous influence over the department and is typically brought in for consultations before important management decisions are made.”

    In the Abner Louima case, the PBA’s role extended beyond reactionary advocacy and agitation to active participation in a conspiracy to cover-up the brutal crimes of its members. In 1997, an NYPD officer sexually assaulted Louima in a Precinct Station bathroom by violently shoving a broken broomstick into his rectum. His attacker and three of his police accomplices were charged with criminal civil rights offenses.

    Evidence in the criminal proceedings revealed that a PBA official had chaired an early meeting with the implicated officers, one of whom was a PBA delegate, at which they fabricated a false story designed to exonerate one of the conspirators. Even after the officers were convicted, the PBA continued to defend the officers, both publicly and with financial support, and to advocate for them with their fabricated version of events—with none other than Patrick Lynch claiming that “people with a political agenda have fanned the flames of this incident,” leading to an “innocent man . . . being punished beyond belief.”

    More recently, Lynch and the PBA, together with the NYPD sergeants and captains associations, after condemning Federal Judge Shira Scheindlin’s order that sharply limited the NYPD’s discriminatory stop and frisk policies, unsuccessfully sought to appeal her order after Mayor de Blasio made good on his campaign promise not to appeal.

    And this past year, confronted with another indefensible case of NYPD violence, PBA President Lynch again went on the offensive. In August, after the medical examiner determined that Eric Garner’s death at the hands of officer Daniel Pantaleo was a homicide by means of a chokehold, Lynch declared that the examiner was “mistaken” in finding that the death was a homicide, and that he had “never seen a document that was more political than that press release by the [medical examiner].”

    In a classic case of doubletalk, he further asserted that it was “not a chokehold. It was bringing a person to the ground the way we’re trained to do to place him under arrest.” He chastised Mayor de Blasio for not “support[ing] New York City police officers unequivocally.”

    In December, Lynch praised the Staten Island Grand Jury’s decision not to charge Panteleo, while accusing Garner of resisting arrest, brushing off two police misconduct lawsuits—one for sexual assault during a search— brought against Panteleo and idolizing him as “literally an Eagle Scout,” a “model” cop, and “mature, mature” officer.

    And once again, the PBA unleashed a work slowdown in further protest of Mayor de Blasio that lasted several weeks.
    Chicago

    In Chicago, the Fraternal Order of Police, which represents CPD patrol officers, has a similarly notorious history.

    Handmaiden to the rioting cops who indiscriminately and brutally beat demonstrators at the 1968 Democratic Convention, the FOP held a reunion of their 1968 troops in 2009 at the FOP Lodge. They proudly displayed pictures of some of the wanton police brutality on their website and, in an attempt to rewrite history (and the Walker Report’s findings of a “police riot”), trumpeted that “the time has come that the Chicago Police be honored and recognized for their contributions to maintaining law and order—and for taking a stand against Anarchy. … The Democratic National Convention was about to start and the only thing that stood between Marxist street thugs and public order was a thin blue line of dedicated, tough Chicago police officers.”

    In the 1970s and 1980s, the FOP, demonstrating its reactionary and racist essence within its own ranks, aligned itself against the forces that were fighting to bring affirmative action to the CPD. The Afro American Patrolman’s League led the battle and was confronted in their legal struggle at every turn by disgruntled white officers and the FOP.

    In 1990, the Chicago City Council passed a resolution that declared December 4 “Fred Hampton Day.” On December 4, 1969, Hampton, a dynamic young Black Panther Party leader, was slain in his bed by Chicago police in what, by 1990, had been documented and widely accepted in the African-American community as a politically motivated murder. Surprisingly, Mayor Richard M. Daley did not oppose the resolution. But the FOP most certainly did.

    FOP President John Dineen launched a lobbying campaign to repeal the resolution, publicly belittled the BPP’s service programs and slandered Hampton, who was considered to be a martyr by many African Americans and activists, as a person who “dedicated his life to killing the pigs.” History repeated itself in 2006 when, after the City Council unanimously voted to rename the block where Hampton was murdered “Chairman Fred Hampton Way,” FOP President Mark Donahue organized the families of slain CPD officers to lobby for its rescission, while publicly voicing his cop membership’s “outrage” and “disbelief” at the decision.

    In the early 1990s, the FOP began its campaign— which it continues to pursue to this day—of defending Jon Burge and his fellow police torturers. In November 1991, the emerging evidence of a pattern of police torture by Burge and his cadre of all-too-willing enforcers compelled the City of Chicago to initiate administrative proceedings before the Chicago Police Board in order to fire Burge and two of his co-conspirators for the brutal electric shock torture of Andrew Wilson. Since the city was no longer financing the torturers’ defense, as it had in the civil rights damages case brought by Wilson, the FOP stepped up and gladly assumed responsibility.

    The FOP and its spin-off organization, the Burge-O’Hara-Yucaitis Family Fund Committee (BOY), then set out on a campaign that sought not only to raise money for the defense, but also to viciously attack Burge’s victims and the lawyers from the People’s Law Office, (including myself) who had brought much of the damning evidence to light. They falsely accused us of fabricating the evidence of systemic torture and of making millions from exposing the scandal. They also organized a raucous fundraiser at a local union hall where Burge was lionized by thousands of cops and prosecutors.

    After a six-week evidentiary hearing, the Police Board fired Burge and suspended one of the other charged officers. Dineen called the decision a “travesty of justice,” and only weeks later the FOP announced that it intended to enter a float honoring Burge and his compatriots in the annual South Side Irish Parade—a parade in which Chicago Mayors and numerous other politicians regularly marched. The public outrage and cries of racism that followed the FOP’s announcement were swift and strong, and the FOP was forced to withdraw the float.

    A few years later a federal judge, quoting Martin Luther King’s “Letter from a Birmingham Jail,” ordered that a number of police files that documented the systemic nature of the torture “with all its pus flowing ugliness” be released “to the natural medicines of air and light.” The FOP intervened in the suit, seeking to overturn the order, and continued to pursue its battle to suppress the files with an unsuccessful appeal.

    In 2008, the FOP again became actively involved in defending Burge after he was indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice for lying under oath about whether he tortured African-American suspects. The FOP Board, without putting it to a vote of its membership, pushed through a resolution to pay for Burge’s lawyers in the criminal case.

    Defending its decision, FOP President Mark Donahue asserted that Burge, despite the more than 100 documented cases of torture that had been amassed against him over the years, had been unfairly tarnished by allegations from criminals, and that politicians and lawyers for Burge’s victims had fueled a media hysteria which “caused Jon Burge to be the ‘poster child’ of alleged police torture in this city for an entire generation.” Invoking what can be described as the FOP’s unrepentant motto, Donahue vowed that it “will stand with the police officer every time.” A group of African-American officers unsuccessfully challenged the decision in Court, stating, “We do not support torture. We do not condone torture. We do not embrace torture. We will never support that type of behavior on the department.”

    In 2011, Burge, despite his high-priced FOP-financed defense, was convicted of three felonies and sentenced to four-and-a-half years in federal prison. Nonetheless, the Police Pension Board, which was comprised of four former or present CPD officers and four civilians, voted 4-4 on the question of whether Burge should be stripped of his pension, which he had been receiving since 1997. By law, the tie was resolved in pensioner Burge’s favor.

    Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan filed suit, seeking to reverse the decision, and the FOP defended the ruling, with an FOP-financed private lawyer arguing on behalf of Burge. The case was appealed all the way to the Illinois Supreme Court, which, in a 4-3 decision this past summer, ruled in favor of Burge and the Pension Board.

    This appalling history is not limited to New York, Chicago or Milwaukee by any means. Other notable examples include Detroit in the mid-1970s, where the Detroit Police Officers Association challenged police reforms and affirmative action initiatives which sought to stem rampant police brutality against African Americans with a lawsuit; after it lost its case, it orchestrated a police riot.

    In Los Angeles in the early 1990s, African-American Mayor Tom Bradley condemned the state court jury verdict which absolved LAPD officers of criminal charges for brutally beating Rodney King, by stating that the verdict “will never blind us to what we saw on that videotape,” and further stated that “the men who beat Rodney King do not deserve to wear the uniform of the LAPD.” In response, the L.A. Police Protective League reacted with a vengeance that, according to Police Chief Richard Riordan, lasted for years.

    And more recently, in Seattle, the Police Officers’ Guild mounted a verbal attack on then-Mayor Michael McGinn after he stated, in response to the shooting of a Native American word-carver, that the Seattle police force had no place for officers who did not share his commitment to racial justice.

    Whether unions which represent police officers, correctional guards and other law enforcement officers are the same kind of workers’ organizations as other unions, which can potentially be used to further the interests of the working class as a whole, has been vigorously contested by many progressives and leftists over the years. But the disturbing history of these powerful organizations makes it very clear that they mirror and reinforce the most racist, brutal and reactionary elements within the departments they claim to represent and actively encourage the code of silence within those departments. They are far from democratic, with officers of color and women having little or no influence.

    In truth, police unions further the-all-too-accurate conception that the police are an occupying force in poor communities of color, and are antithetical in principle and action to the progressive principles of the labor movement.

    in reply to: LAPD UNION attacks Mayor for his criticism #115940
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    vox:https://www.vox.com/2014/12/18/7415135/police-unions

    “…Some criminal justice experts worry unions’ power and single-mindedness — and the attention devoted to unions in public discourse — make it more difficult to bring change from within police departments. By going after anyone who dares criticize police officers, unions may stamp out real dissent within the rank and file of police departments.

    “[Y]ou may have a group of black police officers who feel very differently than the union does, but those folks don’t have bargaining power,” Phillip Goff, director of the UCLA’s Center for Policing Equity, told Vox’s Jenée Desmond-Harris. “They don’t have the political power that the official bargaining union does.”

    But Pasco of FOP said unions are just doing their jobs. “If people have a problem with an individual officer … the union didn’t recruit him, didn’t hire him, didn’t train him, didn’t supervise him, and didn’t promote him. Management did that,” Pasco argued. “All we have done is what we’re legally required to do.”….

    in reply to: LAPD UNION attacks Mayor for his criticism #115939
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    alternet:https://www.alternet.org/2015/01/real-reason-police-unions-enable-worst-cop-abuses/

    The Real Reason Police Unions Enable the Worst Cop Abuses
    Written by Steven Rosenfeld / AlterNet January 8, 2015

    …Most police unions were created in the early 1970s, after a presidential commission issued a detailed report that in part noted that the South’s police crackdowns on civil rights protesters were by departments that were little more than political patronage shops. From an employment law perspective, police were “at-will” hires, meaning they could be hired and fired any time by their bosses. The unions were created to professionalize departments, including instituting collective bargaining agreements with discipline procedures. Nationally, the fine print on these procedures varies, but in most cases even the worst cops are afforded due process rights, including binding arbitration or relying on a third party to resolve disputes, as the last stage in fighting employment decisions like getting fired.

    A half-century ago, these procedures were seen as the cure for the most racist or corrupt police agencies. But today, these clauses, especially binding arbitration, are increasingly seen as problematic because they cannot be overturned even by elected officials, police chiefs, civilian police review boards, or even federal judges who are overseeing reforms in plagued departments under Justice Department settlements.

    The list of bad cops who have been fired for violent behavior but won their jobs back—with back pay as if nothing happened—after binding arbitration is striking. Nationally, arbitration modifies or reverses about two-thirds of disciplinary decisions, labor lawyers say. In some cases, police were fired for nonviolent offenses and returned to work. But there are many examples of violent cops who are back at work because police unions fought for them, and an arbitrator ruled in their favor.

    Recent examples include a Washington state officer who was fired for excessive Taser use and filing false reports; a Philadelphia lieutenant fired for punching a woman in the face at a parade and arresting her after mistakenly believing she threw beer on him; a Rhode Island officer who followed two women home in uniform and exposed himself; a Miami officer who shot and killed an unarmed man sitting in a car; an Oakland officer who threw a stun grenade into a crowd that was trying to help a protester who had been shot by police; and more. In some of these cases, such as Philadelphia and Oakland, the cops’ actions were videotaped, and the tapes are very disturbing.

    Last month in Cleveland, a policeman who got into a bar fight and lost his gun and badge, won his job back. A local judge denied the city’s appeal after an arbitrator ruled in his favor. Cleveland.com reported the Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association had argued during that arbitration proceeding that other Cleveland police officers had done much worse and kept their jobs to justify reversing his firing.

    “The officers cited in the other cases have committed assaults, domestic violence, theft, felony offenses, untruthfulness, and other violent crimes, and have been allowed to keep their jobs with the city,” Cleveland PBA argued, Cleveland.com reported.

    “Specifically, CPPA president Jeffrey Follmer referred to separate cases in which:
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    One officer pulled his wife put of her car and fired eight shots into it because he did not want her to get the car in a divorce settlement;
    Another got drunk and threatened his girlfriend with a shotgun;
    Another officer shot his gun ‘in a threatening manner’ while intoxicated;
    An officer pulled his gun during a drunken wedding fight;
    A female officer smeared animal feces on her own apartment walls during rent dispute, and told her landlord to pick up her keys at the department’s gun range;
    Another officer fled the scene of an accident after he hit a man on a motorcycle.”

    The complaints about how union-backed arbitration protects bad cops do not just come from activists protesting excessive force. Federal judges and police chiefs who are trying to change the culture inside departments have criticized this aspect of police unions.

    “Just like any failure to impose appropriate discipline by the chief or city administrator, any reversal of appropriate discipline at arbitration undermines the very objectives [of the federal consent decree requiring reforms],” U.S. District Court Judge Thelton Henderson wrote last August, after the Oakland police officer who was videotaped tossing a gas grenade into a crowd of Occupy protesters was reinstated.

    Washington, DC Police Chief Kathy Lanier similarly bemoaned how too much power has shifted to the binding arbitration process. Last February, she noted a ruling that ended a six-year contract dispute—which raised salaries and benefits but the DC union chief still called “disrespectful”—also rejected the city’s effort to rein in arbitration.

    “It is unsuprising that an arbitrator would reject common-sense limitations on an arbitrator’s authority designed to ensure that bad cops stay fired, and instead choose the union’s proposal to expand the scope of disciplinary cases that are subject to arbitration,” her statement said. “This decision just further supports my recent testimony before the [DC City] Council that common-sense legislative reform of arbitrators’ authority is desperately needed to ensure that officers who are not fit to serve are not ordered back into the communities by unaccountable arbitrators.”

    There are numerous other examples of police unions lobbying to protect their officers from reform efforts. Last summer, the police union in Miami-Dade County, Florida, tried to block the mayor’s office’s plan to install body cameras, filing a grievance saying it interfered with police work. California’s prison guards union, the Correctional Peace Officers Association, is known for aggressively lobbying to build more prisons, fighting sentencing reform and bankrolling law-and-order candidates, Jacobin.com reported.

    Back to New York

    There’s no denying that the police union revolt in New York City is coming to a head. On December 30, Gov. Cuomo vetoed a bill drafted by the Rikers Island guard union that would have moved police brutality prosecutions from the Bronx to Queens, where the district attorney is seen as friendlier to the guards. Another union-drafted bill awaiting Cuomo’s signature or veto would expand disciplinary issues dealt with under arbitration. Last July, the New York Civil Liberties Union wrote to Cuomo urging a veto, saying that if it became law it “would seriously curtail the authority of local government officials to take disciplinary action, including removal or suspension, when a police officer commits misconduct.”

    The NYCLU is making the same point DC’s Chief Lanier made when criticizing the fine print in a contract settlement that did not reel in arbitration’s ability to protect bad cops. Indeed, after top NYPD managers reassigned the officer involved in Eric Garner’s death, Patrick Lynch, the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association union chief, slammed that reassigment as an unfair political attack on a cop.

    “It is imperative that our elected officials, community leaders and the citizens of our city are supportive of police officers who do this difficult job every day if we are to expect them to continue putting themselves in harm’s way to keep the city safe,” he said.

    Lynch seems tone-deaf in his unflinching defense of an officer who unnecessarily killed an unarmed man. In his world, the only victims are cops who don’t get everything their way. Yet stepping back from this police union rebellion, it’s revealing to note that Lynch’s diatribes seem cut from a decades-old script written by police union leaders who did not get their way.

    In 1992, Donald Murray, the Boston Police Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association leader, called the creation of a community appeals board to discipline police in that city, “the ruination of the Boston Police Department… I feel like I’ve been raped and sodomized.” That same year in New York, thousands of off-duty cops staged unruly protests when then-mayor David Dinkins proposed creating a civilian review board.

    There was similar overheated rhetoric in Portland, Oregon, before the Department of Justice sued and then imposed a settlement over how police were using excessive force against the city’s mentally ill, said Aitchison, the police labor lawyer. Portland’s union eventually toned down its rhetoric and agreed to substantial changes including a police monitor, he said. Similarly, Aitchison said the Los Angeles Police Department, under several mayors and police chiefs—including Bill Bratton who now has that job in New York—is not the same department that behaved like an occupying army a decade ago.

    “It can happen if anyone is willing to sit down and really talk,” he said, suggesting that Gov. Cuomo, Mayor de Blasio, Bill Bratton, Patrick Lynch, other union heads, and police critics have a lot to gain by addressing the large issues—settling the NYPD contract, instituting policing and disciplinary reforms—as other cities have done.

    It will be revealing to see what unfolds in New York in coming weeks, and observe whether police unions will stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. But for now, the war of words continues.

    in reply to: LAPD UNION attacks Mayor for his criticism #115938
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    Seattle:https://portside.org/2020-06-05/labor-council-seattle-police-union-address-racism-or-get-out
    Labor Council to Seattle Police Union: Address Racism or Get Out
    —
    The King County Labor Council once welcomed the Seattle Police Officers Guild. As protests continue, it’s reconsidering.

    The largest labor coalition in King County is giving the Seattle Police Officers Guild an ultimatum: acknowledge and address racism in law enforcement and in their union or risk being kicked out of the group.

    In a vote Thursday, executive members of the King County Labor Coalition — a sort of union of unions — passed a resolution laying out tasks for the police guild, which represents over 1,000 rank-and-file officers.

    SPOG must state that racism is an issue in law enforcement and within its own organization. The union must participate in workgroups focused on addressing racism in the union. It must commit to police contracts that do not evade accountability. And there must be consequences when professional standards are not followed and harm is done.

    Jane Hopkins, executive vice president of SEIU 1199, said she wants to hear the head of the union, Mike Solan, say, “Black lives matter,” and to mean it.

    The labor council is basically giving the police union one last opportunity to reform itself. SPOG has until June 17 to meet these demands, or the council will vote on whether to throw it out of the organization….

    in reply to: LAPD UNION attacks Mayor for his criticism #115937
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    aclu:https://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-rights/women-and-criminal-justice/nypd-police-officers-union-wants-keep-sexual

    NYPD Police Officers Union Wants to Keep Sexual Misconduct Under Wraps
    2018
    “Evidence continues to mount that the New York Police Department may have a sexual assault and harassment problem on its hands. But rather than face up to the fact that some officers abuse their authority and deal with those officers accordingly, the officers’ union is legally trying to make sure that any allegations of sexual assault or harassment are dealt with internally rather than publicly…

    ….Anyone who has ever interacted with a police officer understands this lopsided power dynamic. When police officers engage in sexual misconduct, they are taking advantage of this imbalance, whether they know it or not.

    Yet, the city’s largest police union, the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association, has brought a legal challenge to the CCRB’s February sexual misconduct resolution. It seeks to keep such allegations of sexual abuse by NYPD officers in the control of the NYPD and out of the public eye, in part by arguing that police sexual misconduct is not an “abuse of authority.”

    In June, The New York Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU’s Women’s Rights Project filed a proposed amicus brief in the case, arguing that the CCRB can lawfully investigate complaints of NYPD sexual misconduct. These investigations, we argue, are essential to safeguarding the rights of women, LGBT people, and others vulnerable to sexual abuse and to promoting police transparency and accountability…”

    in reply to: Police & protestors — conflicting images #115935
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    in reply to: 3rd Degree Murder was the proper charge #115893
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    Two of the charged cops, apparently, were very new, and essentially being trained.

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    in reply to: Progressive beats CIA candidate in New Mexico #115887
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    Funky Academic on white-progressive-left. From 2017.

    in reply to: attacking the press #115886
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    in reply to: attacking the press #115885
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    Has anyone from FOX been attacked? Just curious.

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    in reply to: Sports and the Protests #115871
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    in reply to: Progressive beats CIA candidate in New Mexico #115862
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    Teresa Leger Fernandez

    During the campaign, Leger Fernandez was endorsed by Congresswoman Deb Haaland, EMILY’s List, and The Santa Fe New Mexican. A political progressive, Leger was endorsed by the Working Families Party, Elizabeth Warren, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Leger has advocated for a “New Mexico Green New Deal” and Medicare For All.

    Though she did take some dark money.

    …

    =======================

    I was guilty of having an iota of hope, again.

    Thank-you for dashing my hope 🙂

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    in reply to: History of Policing, and stuff #115849
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    If you havent watched this Alex Vitale interview, you are missing one of the best overall interviews I’ve seen in the last ten years.

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    “At root, they fail to appreciate that the basic nature of the law and the police, since its earliest origins, is to be a tool for managing inequality and maintaining the status quo. Police reforms that fail to directly address this reality are doomed to reproduce it.”
    ― Alex Vitale, The End of Policing

    in reply to: Sports and the Protests #115847
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    Matt Waldman@MattWaldman
    There’s a difference between between hateful and ignorant. People—especially liberals—are too apt to shame when they see ignorance and lump it with hate. Some want to punish immediately, ask questions later. Brees wasn’t hateful but what he said is hurtful because he’s

    Ignorant of the underlying ties between his desire to be patriotic (good), what is patriotic (what he appears not to see), and what is the priority that most military I have known or spoken with would tell you (human rights and right to protest).

    I am a huge fan of Drew Brees’s game. So are the players who work with him on the field. Brees is a perfect example of an intelligent, hardworking, often compassionate person can be insidiously brainwashed for so long that they don’t or refuse to see what’s obvious to many.

    It’s the heartbreaking thing about our nation’s disease. Those who perpetrated this disease politically tie it to false notions of safety and patriotism.

    American slavery was the most brutal form of slavery in world history. When over, there was no recompense, training, or enforcement of the new laws. Jim Crow laws were awful–Nazis studied them to prepare for their regime of government. They rejected many of them as too harsh!

    Jim Crow laws benefited whites and hurt blacks in quality of real estate, education, law enforcement–institutions that set you and your family up for life and the lives of your children and children’s children or can derail and hurt those dependent on you early in life.

    Why wasn’t the Tusla massacre taught in most U.S. schools? A thriving black area of town with black-owned businesses bombed from the air, and black families massacred and buried in unmarked graves–set off by a woman behaving like Amy Cooper.

    Why are textbooks in many states equating the indentured servitude of the Irish with the slavery of Africans in America? And if you can’t get with “why” you can still acknowledge how these elements brainwash us into denial that anything needs to be fixed.

    The point is that we’ve been brainwashed in this country by people who didn’t want to own up to what they did to blacks and how it earned them power and money. We may not be directly complicit with those acts but it set the foundation for inherent advantages/disadvantages.

    ================

    Good Lord. Matt Waldman knows about the Tulsa thing? Wow.
    Very impressed.

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    in reply to: Sports and the Protests #115846
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    =========================
    FWIW. At Yahoo:https://sports.yahoo.com/drew-brees-apologizes-for-comments-about-kneeling-protests-i-stand-with-the-black-community-124049826.html
    Drew Brees apologized on Thursday morning for his recent comments about players kneeling during the national anthem to protest police brutality and racial injustice.

    Brees, the longtime New Orleans Saints quarterback, posted his apology on Instagram, and indicated that he’d spoken to several people about how his comments made them feel and the pain his words had caused them.

    in reply to: So what can the protestors accomplish? #115829
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    The thing, WV, is that in a nuanced argument, you’re right, but that language is also used by Republicans in an outright racist manner and Democrats in a dog whistle racist manner.

    There’s a whole thing about “ignorant blacks” not being smart enough to understand politics, the infantilization of the African Americans, especially black men, while at the same time holding them as being violent and inherently criminal.

    So, even if just from a language perspective, and I hear and share your frustration about the unfortunate efficacy of propaganda, I really can’t go with you with respect to “dumbing down older African Americans”.

    Totally agree 100% about the corporatocracy/idiocracy argument. And yes, with a combination (that isn’t based on race) of a lack of curiosity as well as terribly efficacious propaganda, we have people who think they are acting in their own best self interest.

    I just have to be mindful about the history of that argument and the issues it has with respect to race.

    And, no, absolutely not, do I think that you’re wrong on the pure math of it.

    But it reminds me of that Chris Rock bit, “I hate N****rs”. He stopped doing it not because he stopped believing that there weren’t some trifling idiots who fuck everything up for those who just wanna live, but because it was partly being hijacked to justify racism.

    I don’t wanna leave that possibility with this argument.

    =====================

    Oh, believe me, i get what yer saying. Thats why I dont go too many sentences without writing about White people being dummed-down. And then I always make sure to emphasize the argument is about propaganda and its effectiveness, not about race, or IQ etc etc.

    But yeah, i know. I only get on this subject when I talking to people i trust.
    Most of the time, i just bland-i-fy it down to “Capitalist propaganda leads to people voting against their own interest.” Which is just another way of saying it.

    w
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    in reply to: History of Policing, and stuff #115828
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    This whole interview is very good. But at about the 14 min mark he argues that more black police officers does not change things. He explains why.

    w
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    in reply to: Police Misconduct and Civilian Review Boards #115804
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    PS — Reason Magazine has an ‘agenda’ W.

    Its a Libertarian Magazine. I dont imagine they like ‘any’ Union.

    “…Reason was founded in 1968 by Lanny Friedlander (1947–2011),[2][5] a student at Boston University,[6] as a more-or-less monthly mimeographed publication. In 1970 it was purchased by Robert W. Poole Jr., Manuel S. Klausner, and Tibor R. Machan, who set it on a more regular publishing schedule.[5][6] As the monthly print magazine of “free minds and free markets”, it covers politics, culture, and ideas with a mix of news, analysis, commentary, and reviews.

    During the 1970s and 80s, the magazine’s contributors included Milton Friedman, Murray Rothbard, Thomas Szasz, and Thomas Sowell.[7] In 1978, Poole, Klausner, and Machan created the associated Reason Foundation, in order to expand the magazine’s ideas into policy research.[5] Marty Zupan joined Reason in 1975, and served through the 1980s as managing editor and editor-in-chief, leaving in 1989.[8]…”

    Wiki

    in reply to: Police Misconduct and Civilian Review Boards #115803
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Well, I just dont have a problem with those rules below. If someone murders a black person, none of those procedures below are gonna save the cop. Exactly what would you strip from the rules below?

    Now, again, I WOULD change the power of the ‘civilian review board’ or whatever we wanna call it. There needs to be an independent review of ‘gray area’ stuff. We cant trust the Police to police themselves.

    How to go about that? I dunno enough about it to say anything. I’m just saying what we need.

    I dont mind tinkering around with some of those rules, and if thats what you mean by lessening the power of the Unions I might be ok with it, but it just depends on which powers you wanna weaken.

    ————-
    “…That’s where the special treatment begins, but it doesn’t end there.

    Unlike a member of the public, the officer gets a “cooling off” period before he has to respond to any questions. Unlike a member of the public, the officer under investigation is privy to the names of his complainants and their testimony against him before he is ever interrogated. Unlike a member of the public, the officer under investigation is to be interrogated “at a reasonable hour,” with a union member present. Unlike a member of the public, the officer can only be questioned by one person during his interrogation. Unlike a member of the public, the officer can be interrogated only “for reasonable periods,” which “shall be timed to allow for such personal necessities and rest periods as are reasonably necessary.” Unlike a member of the public, the officer under investigation cannot be “threatened with disciplinary action” at any point during his interrogation. If he is threatened with punishment, whatever he says following the threat cannot be used against him.

    What happens after the interrogation again varies from state to state. But under nearly every law enforcement bill of rights, the following additional privileges are granted to officers: Their departments cannot publicly acknowledge that the officer is under investigation; if the officer is cleared of wrongdoing or the charges are dropped, the department may not publicly acknowledge that the investigation ever took place, or reveal the nature of the complaint. The officer cannot be questioned or investigated by “non-government agents,” which means no civilian review boards. If the officer is suspended as a result of the investigation, he must continue to receive full pay and benefits until his case is resolved. In most states, the charging department must subsidize the accused officer’s legal defense…”

    in reply to: So what can the protestors accomplish? #115787
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Ball and Saagar interviewed a black man after South Carolina, or Super Tuesday, some guy from the South. I don’t remember if he was a professor, or what his credentials were, but he said blacks in the South voted for Biden because they simply weren’t going to trust a white man’s promises (Sanders) since they are beyond allowing themselves to hope that one day a white man will actually keep his promise to do something. They know Biden isn’t going to change anything, but at least he isn’t promising to change anything, so they know what they will get with him.

    He actually made a pretty interesting case for that.

    I just searched for the video, but couldn’t find it. It would probably help if I remembered his name.

    ================

    Yeah, I have watched a lot of Funky-Academic’s vids over the last month, but I dont really buy what he’s selling on this topic. I can only speculate wildly, but immho, he is doing all kinds of mental-contortion to avoid the conclusion that many many blacks were dummed-down and consequently voted against their own interest. Just like with Whites.

    I just dont buy the notion that blacks voted for Biden because they knew Biden was not going to do shit. And they liked that.

    They voted for Biden (imho) because Biden is connected to Obama. And they voted for Obama because he is black, and because they were dummed down enough to think that Mr Black-Corporate-Goldman-Sachs was on their side.

    In an idiocracy its not only Whites who have been idiot-ized. Blacks are not immune to Corporate Propaganda. And the funky academic just cant come out and say it.

    I think guys like Adolph Reed Jr. might very well come out and say it if he were asked.

    w
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    in reply to: Police & protestors — conflicting images #115778
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    De Blasio is a political-dick but if you watch all this, he does say some good things here:

    in reply to: One reason leftists don’t think much of liberals #115774
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    <
    I think any civilian review board can only have the power to review facts and come to conclusions. I don’t believe they have the power to fire cops. The courts pursuant a consent decree can oversee certain changes that it deems needs to be made. But that would always be pursuant to a settlement. But they cannot make personnel decisions. If an officer is involved with criminal conduct then the only remedy is prosecution by the D.A. or the Feds if the conduct involves a Civil rights violation.

    Bottom line is we got a lot of bad cops still on the beat and the main reason rests with their unions. Sorry about that.

    ===================

    Well, maybe some Union Lawyers do need to be sent to Re-Education camps 🙂
    —

    in reply to: So what can the protestors accomplish? #115773
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    Participant

    in reply to: One reason leftists don’t think much of liberals #115754
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I believe there is a way to have strong Unions and still fire/charge people who Brutalize others.

    my guess is if you got rid of unions. management wouldn’t offer counseling to cops. they wouldn’t give them things like health insurance or retirement plans. they’d just burn them out and then recruit more cops. i fear that the brutality might actually get worse.

    =================

    Well we already know what life looks like when Police Unions are prohibited.

    The Police Strike

    w
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    in reply to: One reason leftists don’t think much of liberals #115755
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I believe there is a way to have strong Unions and still fire/charge people who Brutalize others.

    my guess is if you got rid of unions. management wouldn’t offer counseling to cops. they wouldn’t give them things like health insurance or retirement plans. they’d just burn them out and then recruit more cops. i fear that the brutality might actually get worse.

    ===========

    I replied but the post got oblivion-ized. Just go to the search box and search “police strike”. The Boston Police strike. See what life is like without a police union.

    w
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    in reply to: Sports and the Protests #115735
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Actually a link to Coach Lynn talking is in the NFL/protests thread on the other forum. WV I think this vid belongs there: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/rams-on-floyd-protests/#post-115720

    ==============

    Ok. Go ahead and move it.

    w
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    in reply to: One reason leftists don’t think much of liberals #115739
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    and that’s not to say that there aren’t racist cops out there. shoot. this country is racist.

    the lady who called the cops on the bird watcher. the men who chased down ahmaud arbery and shot him dead for jogging.

    that’s the sad reality. racism is a societal issue – not just a law enforcement issue.

    ==================

    Civilian Review Boards. Made up of Community Members.

    The Police are PUBLIC servants. They should be accountable to US.

    w
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    I know you think unions are critical. Its in your gestalt. I’m pretty sure most followers of Karl Marx and his view of socialism are in the same camp. I know the contributions and protections that unions “in general” provide. But I’m not sure you recognize the dark side as well. You ask for civilian review board to address police misconduct. Can you actually foresee police unions agreeing to that? Can you imagine the police unions NOT fighting any legislative movement to provide for a civilian review board for misconduct? In the Floyd case the police union had to backtrack on early statements made in support of the accused officer. My wife was a school superintendent who fought the school employees union over the firing of the entire maintenance staff involved in pornography and the selling of guns and ammunition ON the school premises. They never gave up protecting the perverts and those illegally selling weapons within the district office on weekends. One “union member” lived in a trailer connected with the district’s electricity and for years -before Barb took over-had been using the district’s electricity. The union did everything in their power to try and get Barb fired and if it wasn’t for a strong Board of Ed. they might have succeeded. But when she worked late at night and on the weekends she was under the protection of police security. In the end the entire maintenance dept of a very large school district was terminated. Her professional and personal life was threatened and if it wasn’t for the courts restraining orders that were strictly enforced she may not have kept her job.

    Now you may have a general belief that since unions are there to protect workers from management but you may not know of the dark side. My wife who -after working in the aerospace industry-began teaching and worked up into various administrative positions and ultimately became a school superintendent. She HAS experienced what a vengeful union can do all in the name of protecting its members. She is also aware of the many totally incompetent teachers that cannot be removed from their position because of rights , including tenure, negotiated by teacher unions during bargaining negotiations. Keep in mind she WAS a teacher-albeit not a member of CTLA-and was nominated by the State of California as one of three best teachers in the State.

    So, its fine to take the general stand of I’m all for unions no matter what because I believe in the little guy who will always be trampled by employers if it isn’t for the unions. That’s fine but you should have an open mind. In that light the main reason you have bad cops that continue working is protection form their union. If you have a way to change that -well-as the Brits say “carry on”.

    ===============

    Believe me, i know the dark side of any Human-Organization. Unions included.

    But there’s an even darker side to NOT having strong Unions. We are seeing that thanks to Reagan and the NeoLib-Dems.

    Like i said, i do not buy the argument that Unions can always block firing or charging Bad Cops. I just dont buy it.

    And civilian review boards can be legislated, I assume. Politicians can pass laws requiring it. The Unions wont like it, but if its the law, its the law.

    I believe there is a way to have strong Unions and still fire/charge people who Brutalize others.

    I’m not saying any of this is easy. I got no ‘easy’ solutions.

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