Warner's five year hole

5 years? Let’s count em.

1. 2003. That was so many things. It was 2002, where Kurt didn’t play well, plus the opener. Martz had just lost confidence in him and the injuries hurt too. This, though, to me anyway, is one of those “why did Vermeil have to retire” issues. I think, if Vermeil were still the HC (which would mean that eventually, probably 2002, Al Saunders would have been the OC), then…I doubt the Warner meltdown would have happened, or at least would have been handled better on both sides.

2. 2004. Giants. If you read up on the 2004 Giants, what absolutely killed them was OL play. Their OL was shredded and having problems. Some say, well Kurt had them on a winning pace. Not really…by the time Coughlin benched Kurt, the Giants had a 1-3 stretch of losing games and Warner was taking sacks and fumbling the ball at an unbelievable rate. This I think came from (A) the hand combined with (B) trying to make something happen on a struggling team. He’s pressing, in other words.

3. 2005. He’s actually kind of iffy on a struggling ARZ team.

4. 2006. Same.

5. 2007. Plays well, actually. Cards don’t win (they are 8-8 that year) but he plays well. To me, this is only a “hole” if you hold the qb solely responsible for all wins and losses. I think he plays well under the circumstances. You can see him being “back” in 2007.

As for the “5-year hole,” that’s likely why Warner wasn’t a first-time ballot HoFer.

the 5 years thing is a bit over done… started off 0-3 in 2002 because Martz was an idiot.

Warner was sacked 9 times in the 1st 3 games of the 2002 season, not to mention he was hit like crazy. .. I think he suffered both a broken hand and concussion vs NYG…. Finally got knocked out vs Dallas that season when Jaime Martin came in for relief duty…

In NYG, Warner was purposely acquired to groom Eli Manning … Warner in NYG was 5-4 as a starter…..Giants ended up finishing 6-10 that season, so either he elevated a very lousy Giants team or Eli sucked badly his rookie year.

Warner’s overall playoff record: 9-4,

1-3 in the Super Bowl, SB 96.7 passer rating, had a 112 rating with Arizona in the Super Bowl loss to Pittsburgh.

3-0 in NFC Championship games.

too bad Greg Williams and bounty gate ended his career…

bottom line: Warner took 2 perennial losing franchises to the Super Bowl. The Cardinals hadn’t won a home playoff game since 1947 when the Cards finally won a home playoff game with Warner. Jimmy Hart, Neil Lomax, Jake Plummber couldn’t do that
Not many QBs have thrown TDs passes in the Super Bowl for 2 different teams either..

Warner should’ve got in 1st ballot. Martz and STL should not have given up on Warner…. very stupid move…. almost as dumb as running Jerome Bettis out of town to pick up Lawrence Phillips…..

joemad wrote:

so either he elevated a very lousy Giants team or Eli sucked badly his rookie year.

But he didn’t elevate them…in fact he started going backwards. They were 1-3 when the benched him. The thing was, the NY OL was a wreck. He kept trying to hold the ball to make plays and the result was massive fumbling (he still hadn’t figured out about the glove yet).

joemad wrote:

<DIV class=d4p-bbt-quote-title>zn wrote:</DIV>
<P>The Giants were not 1-3 when Warner was benched, they were 5-4. Correct, the G-men had a terrible line. </P>

<P>Yeah sorry I just put that wrong. I meant to say they had gone 1-3 in their last 4 games when they benched him.</P>
<P>I read up on that year because the issue came up so much in discussions. </P>
<P>The best thing I read on it went on about how the Giants OL had fallen apart. </P>
<P>Though it is also true that after 2002 Warner was not quite the same until the glove. </P>

Hey, somebody hijacked my post… I know my diction is not the best and can use some edits from time to time….. but I’m not wrong!!!

joemad wrote:

Hey, somebody hijacked my post… I know my diction is not the best and can use some edits from time to time….. but I’m not wrong!!!

Sorry, that was me. I unaccountably and accidently hit edit instead of quote. I fixed it though. (No mod here would just hijack-edit another poster’s post.)

Here’s what I MEANT to do.

I meant to say–in response to you–

The Giants were not 1-3 when Warner was benched, they were 5-4. Correct, the G-men had a terrible line.

Yeah sorry I just put that wrong. I meant to say they had gone 1-3 in their last 4 games when they benched him. I read up on that year because the issue came up so much in discussions. The best thing I read on it went on about how the Giants OL had fallen apart.

Though it is also true that after 2002 Warner was not quite the same until the glove.

Well I hope you see this soon, Joe, because I personally am saddened by the idea that an honest (if dumb) mistake by me makes you think even for a bit that people on this board would mess with you or screw around with a post.