Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › Trump to 'destroy' law banning political activity by churches
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February 2, 2017 at 1:59 pm #64675February 2, 2017 at 2:25 pm #64676MackeyserModerator
Is it possible to become a theocratic fascist state?
I mean, we’re a fascist state NOW.
But do fascist states come in flavors?
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
February 2, 2017 at 2:26 pm #64677PA RamParticipantBannon isn’t stupid. He’s getting Trump to lock in the evangelical base. There is no more fervent supporter than an evangelical one. If he gives them Christ in the schools and anti-abortion they’ll follow him to Armageddon.
They will love him. It’s kind of a way to get Republicans in line.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
February 2, 2017 at 3:06 pm #64681ZooeyModeratorBannon isn’t stupid. He’s getting Trump to lock in the evangelical base. There is no more fervent supporter than an evangelical one. If he gives them Christ in the schools and anti-abortion they’ll follow him to Armageddon.
They will love him. It’s kind of a way to get Republicans in line.
Yep.
And there are 80 million evangelicals in this country, plus a lot more religious types who aren’t in the evangelical category who are going to find some things to like about this.
We are in big trouble.
February 2, 2017 at 3:14 pm #64682MackeyserModeratorI mention the Nazis because there are too many parallels to ignore.
They initially courted them. Then picked fights with the Catholics.
Then finally revealed that their fascist ideology and Christianity were irreconcilable. Not to mention how many other religions were outright banned.
So… at least we have a roadmap?
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
February 2, 2017 at 4:28 pm #64683nittany ramModeratorIs it possible to become a theocratic fascist state?
I mean, we’re a fascist state NOW.
But do fascist states come in flavors?
My brother has dreamt of the US becoming a military theocracy for years. Looks like he may get his way.
February 2, 2017 at 4:48 pm #64684MackeyserModeratorDoes this mean we’ll finally find the Lost City of Tanis and the Ark of the Covenant?
I mean, that would make a heck of a movie, dontchya think?
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
February 2, 2017 at 5:38 pm #64692Billy_TParticipantTrump received the highest percentage of white evangelicals since they’ve been tracking this. Roughly 81%.
On the surface, this makes absolutely no sense. A thrice-married adulterer, accused by one wife of rape, someone who bragged about serial sexual assaults, being a peeping Tom at teen beauty pageants, and Mr. “Two Corinthians.” But they back him more than people like Huckabee.
Many of them cited the Supreme Court as the key to their reasoning. Nothing was more important than keeping the Court in Republican hands, so that Roe v. Wade might be overturned and other rulings friendly to conservative Christians will continue to be handed down. And Trump has delivered on that score; the religious right is beside itself with glee over the nomination of Neil Gorsuch to fill the vacancy the GOP held open for a year.
But that’s hardly all. Trump signed an executive order not just reinstating the “global gag rule” as any Republican president would have done, but massively expanding it, so now foreign NGOs will be barred from receiving not just U.S. family planning aid but all public health aid if they so much as mention abortion (like telling a sex trafficking victim where she can go to get an abortion so she doesn’t have to bear her rapist’s baby).
Trump has promised to repeal the law that prevents churches and other tax-exempt charitable organizations from officially endorsing political candidates, which he did again at the prayer breakfast today: “I will get rid of and totally destroy the Johnson Amendment and allow our representatives of faith to speak freely and without fear of retribution.” And we recently learned that he’s appointing Jerry Falwell, Jr. to lead a task force on deregulating higher education, which just so happens to be a priority of Rev. Falwell’s, since his Liberty University is “essentially a medium-size nonprofit college that owns a huge for-profit [online] college.” Trump may have been pro-choice for much of his life, but he could wind up being the most anti-abortion-rights president in history.
And yesterday, Sarah Posner broke this remarkable story, that the administration may be planning to essentially legalize many types of discrimination so long as they’re being committed by conservative Christians:
February 2, 2017 at 5:39 pm #64693Billy_TParticipantExcerpt from the second link:
Language in the draft document specifically protects the tax-exempt status of any organization that “believes, speaks, or acts (or declines to act) in accordance with the belief that marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman, sexual relations are properly reserved for such a marriage, male and female and their equivalents refer to an individual’s immutable biological sex as objectively determined by anatomy, physiology, or genetics at or before birth, and that human life begins at conception and merits protection at all stages of life.”
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The breadth of the draft order, which legal experts described as “sweeping” and “staggering,” may exceed the authority of the executive branch if enacted. It also, by extending some of its protections to one particular set of religious beliefs, would risk violating the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution.
“This executive order would appear to require agencies to provide extensive exemptions from a staggering number of federal laws—without regard to whether such laws substantially burden religious exercise,” said Marty Lederman, a professor at Georgetown University Law Center and an expert on church-state separation and religious freedom.
The exemptions, Lederman said, could themselves violate federal law or license individuals and private parties to violate federal law. “Moreover,” he added, “the exemptions would raise serious First Amendment questions, as well, because they would go far beyond what the Supreme Court has identified as the limits of permissive religious accommodations.” It would be “astonishing,” he said, “if the Office of Legal Counsel certifies the legality of this blunderbuss order.”
The leaked draft maintains that, as a matter of policy, “Americans and their religious organizations will not be coerced by the Federal Government into participating in activities that violate their conscience.”
It sets forth an exceptionally expansive definition of “religious exercise” that extends to “any act or refusal to act that is motivated by a sincerely held religious belief, whether or not the act is required or compelled by, or central to, a system of religious belief.” “It’s very sweeping,” said Ira Lupu, a professor emeritus at the George Washington University Law School and an expert on the Constitution’s religion clauses and on the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). “It raises a big question about whether the Constitution or the RFRA authorizes the president to grant religious freedom in such a broad way.”
In particular, said Lupu, the draft order “privileges” a certain set of beliefs about sexual orientation and gender identity—beliefs identified most closely with conservative Catholics and evangelical Christians—over others. That, he said, goes beyond “what RFRA might authorize” and may violate the Establishment Clause.
February 2, 2017 at 5:44 pm #64694Billy_TParticipantIn short, if Trump and the religious right get their way, it’s literally going to be hell on earth for LGBTQ folks and women in general.
Also, the “slippery slope” is pretty obvious. How long before this includes any “sin” the religious right says it should include? And how long before that actually gets people killed? Medical care withheld . . . is the most obvious aspect. But it could go well beyond that. Police, fire and rescue, EMT services, etc. etc.
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