the fourth-and-goal

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  • #55524
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Failed fourth-and-goal with Todd Gurley costs the Rams

    Alden Gonzalez

    http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/31280/failed-4th-and-goal-with-todd-gurley-costs-the-rams

    DETROIT — Todd Gurley was supposed to cut left, but the Los Angeles Rams’ star running back darted up the middle. It was fourth-and-goal from the Detroit Lions’ 1-yard line, with the score tied and the first half down to its final seconds. Gurley was stuffed for a loss. The Rams’ gamble had backfired, and it showed up big in a 31-28 defeat at Ford Field.

    “They made a good play, we didn’t,” Gurley said, plainly.

    Gurley seemingly had a hole to his left, with Cory Harkey blocking his man while acting as a fullback and right guard Jamon Brown acting as a pulling guard to create a hole on the left side. But Gurley ran straight ahead, and the penetration came quickly.

    “Sometimes it’s hard to get to the gap that you want to get to if there’s quick pressure,” Rams left guard Rodger Saffold said. “At the end of the day, you have to give Todd space to make things happen, and we didn’t do it that play.”

    That play — and Case Keenum’s game-ending interception — was one of few blemishes on a day when the offense scored four touchdowns, amassed 23 first downs and gained 387 yards. Gurley himself started strong, gaining 64 total yards on the first two drives. But he picked up just 33 thereafter and finished with 58 yards on the ground, giving him only 346 through the first six games.

    The Rams went 6-for-9 on third down, but are just 1-for-6 on fourth-down conversions this season.

    Harkey felt the crowd noise made it difficult for the Rams to get a good jump off the ball in their latest attempt, which led to them getting beat badly at the line of scrimmage.

    “It’s one we wish we had back, but that’s kind of the way it works,” Harkey said.

    “I’d do that again,” said Rams coach Jeff Fisher, whose failed fake punt hurt his team last week. “Inside the 1-yard line, I mean, you need to knock that in.”

    #55530
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    i don’t think gurley had room to the left which is why he went straight forward. that’s what i saw anyway.

    given the same circumstances i would go for it again.

    right call. questionable play selection. bad execution.

    #55535
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    Only issue I had was, I would have liked if we had an extra blocker in the backfield. A fullback, a big Olineman, and Gurley.

    #55546
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    Gurley was averaging close to 6 YPC up to that point. The line was getting push the 1st half……

    Give Detroit credit, they stuffed Gurley.

    Too bad the Rams didn’t score. …. I think we all felt at that point that THAT play would have ramifications down the line……

    Even the great 99 Rams lost in Detroit in heartbreak fashion…..after losing to Fisher in Tennessee 1 week sooner….

    The 99 Rams had a PI on the Gus Ferrote’s final drive, Detroit converted on 4th down for a game winning TD.

    AND, Warner ended the Rams comeback chances with a pick.

    Shit happens in Detroit…..

    #55547
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I think it was a perfectly reasonable call to try to power the ball in
    from six inches away.

    But myself, i woulda let Keenum roll out with a run/pass option. Gurley woulda bee a decoy.
    I would never trust the interior of the Rams OLine at this point.

    I cant picture bill Walsh calling an offtackle play in that situation, btw.
    Or Jesus, for that matter.
    I always ask myself what play would Bill Walsh or Jesus call?

    w
    v

    #55549
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    I cant picture bill Walsh calling an offtackle play in that situation, btw.
    Or Jesus, for that matter.
    I always ask myself what play would Bill Walsh or Jesus call?

    I don’t know about Jesus, but Bill Walsh would, only he would have Guy McIntyre block as fullback or have Guy run the ball in.

    “”””That ’84 game was what gave Ditka the inspiration for “The Fridge.” Bill unveiled a goal-line formation with (guard) Guy McIntyre as a blocking back. He called it the “Angus Formation,” because Guy hung out so much at the Black Angus, at the bar. Ditka didn’t like that, so when they beat us in Chicago in (the ’85 regular season), he took it to another level and had (defensive tackle William Perry, a.k.a. “The Refrigerator”) run the ball on us. And a craze was born.””””

    In addition, it would work for Bill Walsh, because he put a high emphasis on Culture… I haven’t seen a priority in developing a winning culture from Fisher…..

    http://www.championshipcoachesnetwork.com/public/461.cfm

    1. Developing a Successful Team Starts with Developing a Successful Culture

    In taking over a team with a 2-14 record the previous season, Coach Walsh knew the key to transforming the losing mentality of the 49ers was to implement a totally different culture; one that was top-notch instead of toxic. Walsh called the new winning culture his Standard of Performance. It was a totally different way of thinking and acting that was based on high standards, hard work, and a commitment to being first-class in everything they did.

    Walsh wrote in The Score Takes Care of Itself, “I came to the San Francisco 49ers with a specific goal – to implement what I call the Standard of Performance. It was a way of doing things, a leadership philosophy, that has as much to do with core values, principles, and ideals as with blocking, tackling, and passing; more to do with the mental than with the physical.”

    Your first job as a new coach should be to create a culture of success. You must model, communicate, teach, reward, and enforce the expectations and standards for how your program will operate – including how your athletes will train, practice, compete, win, lose, lead, and conduct themselves on and off the playing field.

    Creating, communicating, implementing, and sustaining the right team culture is the key catalyst to lasting success. Walsh said, “The culture precedes positive results. It doesn’t get tacked on as an afterthought on your way to the victory stand. Champions behave like champions before they’re champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners.”

    Instilling the right culture almost always takes time. And inevitably there will be some who balk against your standards. But, you must have the courage to confront and even remove the dissenters from your program, even though they might be highly talented. Ultimately, you must believe that your successful culture will attract, support, and retain the right talent and people, which will help you prevail and succeed in the long run.

    “For me, the road had been rocky at times, triumphant too, but along the way I had never wavered in my dedication to installing – teaching – those actions and attitudes I believed would create a great team, a superior organization. I knew that if I achieved that, the score would take care of itself,” said Walsh.

    Questions for You to Consider:

    What kind of culture or Standard of Performance have you instilled in your program?

    How well do your people embrace it?

    Are you willing to confront and potentially remove those who do not embrace your standards?

    To learn more about creating a Championship Culture in your program, check out our new book How to Build and Sustain a Championship Culture.

    2. The Leader Sets the Tone

    We all have heard the saying, “It all starts at the top.” Bill Walsh lived it every day. If you want your athletes to model the kind of passion, commitment, and work ethic necessary to be successful, you must demonstrate it yourself in everything you do. You are the tone setter for your athletes, coaching staff, support staff, etc. They will take all their cues from you.

    Walsh writes, “For me the starting point for everything – before strategy, tactics, theories, managing, organizing, philosophy, methodology, talent, or experience – is work ethic. Without one of significant magnitude you’re dead in the water, finished. I knew the example I set as head coach would be what others in the organization would recognize as the standard they needed to match (at least, most of them would recognize it). If there is such a thing as a trickle-down effect, that’s it. Your staff sees your devotion to work, their people see them, and on through the organization.”

    In our Leadership Academies, we call it being “COMPELLED” on our Commitment Continuum. You must have an indomitable passion that drives your program and becomes contagious with all who are involved with it.

    Questions for You to Consider:

    What kind of tone are you setting for your program?

    Are you the hardest worker on your team?

    Where would your athletes rate you on the Commitment Continuum?

    3. Develop and Empower Effective Locker Room Leaders

    Coach Walsh realized that it wasn’t just his work ethic and leadership that would transform the team – he also needed leaders in the locker room and on the playing field. He needed a group of respected team leaders who would help him create, reinforce, and enforce the culture of the team.

    San Francisco assistant coach Mike White said, “He knew that organizations have leaders within, not just one leader, the CEO or head coach, but interior leaders who make possible or prevent what the guy in charge is trying to accomplish. In football they’re called locker-room leaders, and ultimately they play a major role in creating the culture of the team – instilling either a positive or negative mindset. Every organization has them, influential people who’ve got your back – or are putting a knife in it.”

    You must invest the time to develop and empower leaders on your team who have your back. They will help you develop a positive culture throughout the rest of the team. And you must be willing to identify, confront, and remove those negative leaders who are trying to put a knife in it.

    Walsh wrote, “In building and maintaining your organization, place a premium on those who exhibit great desire to keep pushing themselves to higher and higher performance and production levels, who seek to go beyond the highest standards that you, the leader, set. The employee who gets to work early, stays late, fights through illness and personal problems is the one to keep your eye on for greater responsibilities.”

    Questions for You to Consider:

    Who are your team’s locker room leaders?

    Which of your athletes and staff have your back?

    How will you empower them?

    Does anyone in your program seem to be sabotaging your culture?

    How will you put a stop to it?
    4. Competitors Find a Way to Win

    Bill Walsh was fierce competitor. His competitiveness is primarily what drove him and his team to prove people wrong after starting 2-14. Two short seasons later, the 49ers shocked the world and won their first Super Bowl championship.

    In fact, Walsh’s competitiveness was the catalyst in creating his famous West Coast offense. As the Offensive Coordinator for the struggling Cincinnati Bengals, Walsh had to somehow find a way to compete with a quarterback named Virgil Carter who had a weak but accurate arm. Instead of throwing the ball down the field like every other team at the time, Walsh designed an intricate and highly innovative offense that made use of short, precise passes. Despite having what many would think an insurmountable weakness, Walsh and his team found a way to win despite the challenges, the hallmark of true competitors.

    Walsh wrote, “All successful leaders know where we want to go, figure out a way we believe will get the organization there, and then move forward with absolute determination. We may falter from time to time, but ultimately we are unswerving in moving toward our goal; we will not quit. There is an inner compulsion – obsession – to get it done the way you want it done.”

    As a head coach and general manager, Walsh made a point of looking for competitors when he built his team. He said, “Strength of will – is essential to your survival and success. The competitor who won’t go away, who won’t stay down, has one of the most formidable competitive advantages of all. In evaluating people, I prize ego. It often translates into a fierce desire to do their best and an inner confidence that stands them in good stead when things really get rough. Psychologists suggest that there is a strong link between ego and competitiveness. All the great performers I’ve ever coached had ego to spare.”

    Look for competitors when putting together your team – and look to enhance that fierce desire in your athletes to give you a formidable competitive advantage.

    Questions for You to Consider:

    Are you factoring in competitiveness when putting together your team?

    How are you developing the competitive fire in your athletes?

    5. Everyone is Accountable for Both Victory and Defeat

    Unlike many of today’s professional sports teams where the focus is almost solely on a limited number of prima donna individuals, Walsh continually emphasized the team approach. He wanted everyone in the 49er organization, from star quarterback Joe Montana to the office secretaries, to feel that they were responsible and accountable for the team’s success.

    Walsh wrote, “Victory is produced by and belongs to all. Winning a Super Bowl results from you whole team not only doing their individual jobs but perceiving that those jobs contributed to overall success. The trophy doesn’t belong just to a superstar quarterback or CEO, head coach or top salesperson. This is an essential lesson I taught the San Francisco organization: The offensive team is not a country unto itself, nor is the defensive team or the special teams, staff, coaches, or anyone in the organization separate from the fate of the organization. WE are united and fight as one; we win or lose as one.”

    Additionally, it’s very easy for certain segments of your team to blame others. For example, when things go wrong on many teams you will see the offense blame the defense, the seniors blame the freshmen, the parents blame the coaches, the coaches blame the athletic directors for the inadequate budget, etc. Everyone tries to point the finger at someone else rather than take full responsibility to improve their part. Walsh would have none of it in his organization.

    Don’t allow people on your team to blame a certain individual or segment of your program and make them the scapegoat for your problems – it will divide and destroy your team. No matter what their role, encourage everyone to do their job and provide unwavering support for every segment of the team.

    Questions for You to Consider:

    How do you emphasize team in your organization?

    Do you acknowledge everyone in your program, reserves, assistant coaches, athletic trainers, etc. when you are successful?

    Which segments of your team might be blaming another segment?

    To learn more ideas from Coach Walsh on how to build confidence, effectively enforce your team’s standards, and advance in the coaching profession, our Championship Coaches Network members can click on Part 2 of the article below.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Avatar photojoemad.
    #55551
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Back to the point I made somewhere else that you guys are too idiotic to realize was the Holy Truth…

    The Rams haven’t been able to run up the middle all year.

    Ya run ANY play at ALL except up the middle right there. Yeah, Jeff, you’re supposed to make that. But given the first 5 games, I would do something else. The Rams have got NO push ever this entire year. It’s their biggest, most glaring, most talked about weakness on offense.

    And Jesus would agree with me, although I’ve heard he is more of a basketball guy…with Jews being so naturally shifty, and everything.

    #55552
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Back to the point I made somewhere else that you guys are too idiotic to realize was the Holy Truth…

    The Rams haven’t been able to run up the middle all year.
    Ya run ANY play at ALL except up the middle right there….

    And Jesus would agree with me, although I’ve heard he is more of a basketball guy…with Jews being so naturally shifty, and everything.

    ——————–
    Well, in the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus clearly states one can reach the ‘kingdom’ by going outside OR inside.

    “The Kingdom is inside of you and it is outside of you.” ~Gospel of Thomas

    So the notion that Fisher is a heretic for attempting an offtackle play, and should be burned at the stake, flies right in the face of the scriptures.

    w
    v
    “Scrutamini scripturas. [let us look at the scriptures] Two words that have undone the world.”
    John Selden (1584-1654)

    #55554
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    ——————–
    Well, in the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus clearly states one can reach the ‘kingdom’ by going outside OR inside.

    “The Kingdom is inside of you and it is outside of you.” ~Gospel of Thomas

    So the notion that Fisher is a heretic for attempting an offtackle play, and should be burned at the stake, flies right in the face of the scriptures.

    w
    v
    “Scrutamini scripturas. [let us look at the scriptures] Two words that have undone the world.”
    John Selden (1584-1654)

    Typical scriptural fundamentalist. You take a text from the Apocrypha, and twist its meaning.

    Jesus did NOT say the kingdom is inside the tackles, or outside the tackles.

    He said inside of you, or outside of you.

    Plainly, he meant that the Touchdown is both Inside you, and Outside you. It’s a state of mind AND a place.

    He never said anything about how to reach the end zone kingdom. Well, he did. But not in Thomas.

    #55555
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Typical scriptural fundamentalist. You take a text from the Apocrypha, and twist its meaning.

    Jesus did NOT say the kingdom is inside the tackles, or outside the tackles.

    He said inside of you, or outside of you.

    Plainly, he meant that the Touchdown is both Inside you, and Outside you. It’s a state of mind AND a place.

    He never said anything about how to reach the end zone kingdom. Well, he did. But not in Thomas.

    —————-
    You are saying Jesus never said anything about how to reach the end zone ?

    Then why does Fisher even pray to him?

    w
    v
    ============
    Jesus Quintana: Let me tell you something, pendejo. You pull any of your crazy shit with us, you flash a piece out on the lanes, I’ll take it away from you, stick it up your ass and pull the fucking trigger ’til it goes “click.”

    The Dude: Jesus.

    Jesus Quintana: You said it, man. Nobody fucks with the Jesus.
    ===========

    #55559
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Gurley seemingly had a hole to his left, with Cory Harkey blocking his man while acting as a fullback and right guard Jamon Brown acting as a pulling guard to create a hole on the left side. But Gurley ran straight ahead, and the penetration came quickly.

    I mentioned during the chat that I thought it was odd for Gurley to try to run off right guard when the right guard pulled to the left. As it turns out, Gurley just ran the wrong way.

    That happened several times during the game. Mr. Gurley needs to study his playbook. Kudos to Keenum for not fumbling any of those hand-offs.

    #55560
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Typical scriptural fundamentalist. You take a text from the Apocrypha, and twist its meaning.

    Jesus did NOT say the kingdom is inside the tackles, or outside the tackles.

    He said inside of you, or outside of you.

    Plainly, he meant that the Touchdown is both Inside you, and Outside you. It’s a state of mind AND a place.

    He never said anything about how to reach the end zone kingdom. Well, he did. But not in Thomas.

    —————-
    You are saying Jesus never said anything about how to reach the end zone ?

    Then why does Fisher even pray to him?

    w
    v
    ============
    Jesus Quintana: Let me tell you something, pendejo. You pull any of your crazy shit with us, you flash a piece out on the lanes, I’ll take it away from you, stick it up your ass and pull the fucking trigger ’til it goes “click.”

    The Dude: Jesus.

    Jesus Quintana: You said it, man. Nobody fucks with the Jesus.
    ===========

    If Jesus is real then why is there so much misery in the world? If there is a loving god, then explain the Rams.
    ————————————————————————–
    “If there is a god, he will have to beg my forgiveness.”
    – a phrase carved in a wall of a concentration camp cell by a Jewish prisoner

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Avatar photonittany ram.
    #55564
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    If Jesus is real then why is there so much misery in the world? If there is a loving god, then explain the Rams.
    ————————————————————————–
    “If there is a god, he will have to beg my forgiveness.”
    – a phrase carved in a wall of a concentration camp cell by a Jewish prisoner

    —————–

    Look dont blame Jesus for everything. Remember, the Devil is responsible for calling a lot of the plays.

    w
    v
    “We have never heard the devil’s side of the story, God wrote all the book.”
    ― Anatole France

    #55578
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Gurley seemingly had a hole to his left, with Cory Harkey blocking his man while acting as a fullback and right guard Jamon Brown acting as a pulling guard to create a hole on the left side. But Gurley ran straight ahead, and the penetration came quickly.

    I thought that play was on Gurley, myself. Not on the OL.

    But then see for yourself.

    ..

    #55579
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Losing patience with Robinson.

    #55580
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Losing patience with Robinson.

    Yes he was bad on that play. But here’s a different account…though I am not as confident as this guy is that Gurley makes it if he goes left the way the play was designed:

    ===
    off the net from Hacksaw_64

    Even with the cutesy pull of Brown, the play should have been a TD upon review. Gurley for some strange reason decided not to make the correct read and make the cut to his left to follow Brown into the endzone(probably untouched if he makes the cut). Instead he decides to run to the right side smack into the gap Brown just vacated. Not only was there an unblocked defender already in the backfield in that gap waiting, Barnes pushed his guy that direction too, which is actually what we wanted. Why on earth if your going to pull on the goal line are you running to that side? Why even think about taking a step towards that gap? makes no sense.

    So it looks like either Gurley didn’t know the play or made a horrible read. Blocking while cutesy was fine if Gurley follows his blocker…

    #55592
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    It may be Gurley’s fault. How would I know.

    But I still wouldn’t have called that play, and I would say the same thing even if Gurley scored on it. Running between the tackles has got to be the least successful option in the playbook this year. And Fisher’s, “You need to be able to do that” just isn’t a reason to try it. Yes, they need to be able to do that. But the track record says they can’t.

    Martz woulda called something with 5 WRs, 3 TEs, a FB, and some trapeze equipment.

    #55596
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Ive looked at that vid twenty times, and I just dont think Gurley scores
    even if he cuts to his left and follows Brown. I think that Lion player flying in from the
    right would get him, cause he’s not being blocked very well either.

    If GRobinson thot Gurley was supposed to run to the left, one would think he ‘wanted’ the
    DT to stay on GR’s right side. But obviously he didnt want to blow right by him.

    w
    v

    #55598
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    It would have taken a Masseyian effort for Gurley to get into the endzone on that play.

    But Gurley, as great as he is, is only mortal. He can’t swat defenders out of the way like Godzilla does fighter jets. He needs at least some help from the o-line.

    #55599
    sanbagger
    Participant

    IDK…I just watched it 5 times stopping and starting it…I think it’s possible he makes it but there’s way too much penetration by the D.

    Also, looked to me like Gurley intended on going straight the entire time….I didn’t see him looking left at all. Almost like he thought he was supposed to go straight and not that he adjusted on the fly.

    Thanks for the vid that was great to look at and changed my original thinking to what I think now.

    #55601
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    He can’t swat defenders out of the way like Godzilla does fighter jets.

    Then what did they draft him for?

    Bust.

    #55605
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    He can’t swat defenders out of the way like Godzilla does fighter jets.

    Then what did they draft him for?

    Bust.

    zack, look at me.

    I’m going to be blunt. If this hurts, I’m sorry but I don’t know any other way to say this.

    Gurley isn’t Massey.

    And as much as we would like to think he is…as much as we like to hope he is…Massey’s not coming back.

    You’re treadin’ water here, man.

    It’s time to move on, zack.

    Help me help you to move on.

    Massey is gone, zack! He’s gone!

    Yes, I know that makes life unbearable but it’s the truth.

    But now it’s time to soldier on – like Massey would, zack.

    That’s it. Just think about what Massey would do.

    #55606
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    But now it’s time to soldier on – like Massey would, zack.

    That’s it. Just think about what Massey would do.

    ….

    Massey’s gone?

    .

    From Macbeth, Act IV scene iii

    ROSS
    Your castle is surprised; your wife and babes
    Savagely slaughter’d…

    MACDUFF
    My children too?

    ROSS
    Wife, children, servants, all
    That could be found.

    MACDUFF
    And I must be from thence!
    My wife kill’d too?

    ROSS
    I have said.

    MACDUFF
    All my pretty ones?
    Did you say all? O hell-kite! All?
    What, all my pretty chickens and their dam
    At one fell swoop?

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