the 2023 OL thread (w/ definitive article posted on 5/30)

[InvaderRam]

yeah.  i have no clue what to think of the oline.  and i agree with everyone who says that this is the x factor for the team.

 

i like jackson.  i like hav.  i love avila.  i don’t know about the other two spots.  i hope they can stay healthy for the entire season.  whoever the starting five end up being.  because i like the rest of the offense.

[zn]

InvaderRam wrote:

i like jackson.  i like hav.  i love avila.  i don’t know about the other two sp

As usual Anchrum is getting good buzz. He’s an impressive guy and the coaches have always been high on him. I think he will be fine. At center, Allen played in a super bowl. So he’s good enough. Shelton got good marks at center last year while playing in the middle of chaos.

The issue is LOT. If Jackson can be that guy, so be it. I have always been kind of skeptical of Noteboom but we’ll see.

[InvaderRam]

zn wrote:

As usual Anchrum is getting good buzz. He’s an impressive guy and the coaches have always been high on him. I think he will be fine. At center, Allen played in a super bowl. So he’s good enough. Shelton got good marks at center last year while playing in the middle of chaos. The issue is LOT. If Jackson can be that guy, so be it. I have always been kind of skeptical of Noteboom but we’ll see.

 

whatever it takes to fix it, i hope they do because the rest of this offense looks good.

 

i don’t think stafford is done.  i think he has years left if healthy.  at least four.

 

the running backs i like.  i think akers is a serious candidate for a breakout year.  i think evans is a sleeper.  i’ve read good things about williams.

 

kupp is kupp as long as he is healthy.  he was on track for 142 receptions last year before the injury.  i think van is solid.  i really like what i’m reading about puka.  it seems the only worry about puka is health.  he got injured in college, so does that trend continue in the pros?  i’m not the biggest fan of tutu.  i think higbee could have a huge season?  career high in catches last year, and he says he feels even better this year than he did last year at training camp.

 

but if the oline is shaky.  either because of health or talent.  it’ll mean nothing.

[zn]

InvaderRam wrote:

i’m not the biggest fan of tutu.  i think higbee could have a huge season?  career high in catches last year, and he says he feels even better this year than he did last year at training camp.

I share your feelings about TA though reports are he’s upping his game. If that’s true, I still don’t know how high his ceiling is, and I have my doubts about it being all that high.

Right now with a few camp reports in–from both reporters and fans–there seems to a consensus about who is stepping up: Sko and Hopkins. Higbee could of course have a huge year as you said.

[zn]

Jourdan Rodrigue@JourdanRodrigue

Asked McVay about Logan Bruss moving over to right tackle after dearth of RTs in OTAs initially prompted the move and it has carried into camp; McVay says Bruss will probably stay there (behind Rob Havenstein) full time at this point.

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Cornell@gqscholar

Per Mcvay “He had played 17% of his snaps at guard at Wisconsin, but 83% of them at tackle, and he looks more comfortable out there,” McVay said. “I think that’s probably where he’ll stay for now.”

…

Just a reminder about Bruss:

HEIGHT 6’ 5’’

WEIGHT 309 lbs

ARM 33 1/8’’

HAND 10 3/4’’

from https://www.nfl.com/prospects/logan-bruss/32004252-5581-3072-7020-8fc2225cd6fb

Overview

Guard prospect with tackle flexibility who appears to be well-equipped for the NFL game. Bruss is well-proportioned with athletic feet and good core strength. He takes efficient angles to the block in Wisconsin’s zone-heavy running scheme but has the body control, leverage and play strength to operate in any running scheme. Leaning and oversetting are occasional problems, and he needs to improve his hand work in order to keep from getting behind in the early stages of pass protection. Bruss is well-rounded with an athletic profile and should become a good starter early in his career.

Strengths

• Three-year starter with enormous hands.
• Bent knees and ready hands in his pass sets.
• Works at staying square in his slides for as long as possible.
• Recognizes quarterback’s drop point and sets depth accordingly.
• Athletic in adjusting slide to match the pace of the rusher.
• Uses redirect power and sliding feet to protect his edges.
• Fits run blocks with good momentum from settle steps.
• Centers up contact with a wide strike zone and good lift.
• Unencumbered for work-up blocks and stretch plays.
• Above-average finding his landmarks as zone blocker.

Weaknesses

• Ends up second in race to land punch first.
• Needs to play with less predictable, more explosive hands.
• Too much weight drifts to his outside foot in his sets.
• Can be a little lazy with his outside hand in pass pro.
• Could use better attention to hand placement for block security.
• Needs to keep weight under his pads throughout the sustain phase.
• Had trouble playing too far out on his toes versus Penn State.

[zn]

oldnotdead

Anchrum is undersized in terms of length but his play radius is good with his long arms. He has the ability to move for a man of his weight. Allen is technically the better center, but that said he’s yet to prove he can stay healthy.

I’m not worried about RG because they can pick from Anchrum, Shelton, and Jackson. If McClendon gets healthy IMO he’s the one they would like to see as a starter at RG. They have options. It’s not if they can find a RG it’s who is it going to be?

I’m not worried at LT as I think Noteboom is beginning to round into form. If he can’t stay healthy the Rams have a replacement on hand with Jackson, which is no different than having both Allen and Shelton at center. The overall depth on this OL is perhaps as good as it’s ever been.

I’m not counting Bruss out at RT. He’s simply got to adjust to the NFL level of play. He will be a work in progress, but the guy has the feet to play outside at RT. He now has to develop the strength and technique to play the position. I think he will be fine next year. If not the Rams will have Jackson as their first option.

Havenstein is who he is, an expensive average RT. His biggest strength is his durability. Why they don’t have Higbee give him a chip block assist makes no sense. They know speed beats Rob every time.

[zn]

Just a few months ago, we didn't know who 4 of the Rams' 5 starting offensive linemen would be. With camp wrapped up and the depth chart out, it's beginning to take shape

LT: Jackson
LG: Avila
C: Allen/Shelton
RG: Anchrum/Noteboom
RT: Havenstein https://t.co/DzOMw9o9Cl

— Cameron DaSilva (@camdasilva) August 11, 2023

[zn]

69RamFan

on the preseason telecast, big Whit said Hav would love to have Noteboom’s size next to him…

With the run game, those two big guys could clear up some space for our RBs

Our OL with:
AJ/6-6, 330, Avila/6-3, 332, Shelton/6-4, 300, NB/6-5, 321, RHav/6-8,330

This would be a powerful OL to clear up some running lanes for the RBs

All three inside linemen can pull for trap plays.

I have faith in our OL this year.

If we stay injury free, this OL can build on cohesiveness & contiunity to be a dominant OL, IMO

[zn]

Rodrigue, from her article in this thread: https://theramshuddle.com/topic/rams-preseason-8-15-8-19-including-saturday-game/#post-144898

• Rookie offensive lineman Warren McClendon missed OTAs with a knee issue, but his workload has gradually increased through training camp. After making his preseason debut, he’s now fully in the mix with the second team and playing both tackle spots with the reserves (one of his best reps of the day came in pass protection as a left tackle).

McClendon also played well in the Chargers pre-season game.

That’s amazing, he’s a 4th round pick who is now depth at both tackle spots.

[zn]

Cameron DaSilva@camdasilva

Andrew Whitworth said Joe Noteboom is unquestionably one of the Rams’ 5 best offensive linemen and will start no matter which position he plays

.

Big Whit just suggested that Joe Noteboom is slated to be the starter at RG for week 1. Potential lineup:
• Alaric Jackson (LT)
• Steve Avila (LG)
• Allen/Shelton (C)
• Joe Noteboom (RG)
• Rob Havenstein (RT)

McClendon seems to be top option at tackle in case of emergency.

— Rams Brothers (@RamsBrothers) August 20, 2023

[zn]

Jourdan Rodrigue@JourdanRodrigue

Sean McVay still not disclosing details on what Joe Noteboom is dealing with but does say that what the team has indicated is an injury is not related to the Achilles from last year. He isn’t sure if Noteboom will practice next week.

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Stu Jackson@StuJRams

Sean McVay said OL Logan Bruss sustained a lateral ankle sprain against the Raiders last night, and they’re taking things a day at a time with him.

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Blaine Grisak @bgrisakTST

I will say on the OL, Alaric Jackson has looked VERY solid at LT. Limited action, but was good against the Raiders. I know Rams paid Joe Noteboom, but Tremayne Anchrum needs to be the RG. 0 pressures in 67 snaps at RG.

.

Rams OL PFF Grades against Raiders:

1. Alaric Jackson (79 PBLK, 72.6 RBLK)
2. AJ Arcuri (85, 68.5)
3. Grant Miller (84, 62.5)
4. Tremayne Anchrum (84, 52.5)
5. Zach Thomas (85.6, 41.2)
6. Logan Bruss (50.5, 47)
7. Steven Avila (84, 41.4)
8. Warren McClendon Jr. (28.1, 51.4)

.Rams Brothers@RamsBrothers

Big Whit suggested that Joe Noteboom is slated to be the starter at RG for week 1. Potential lineup:
• Alaric Jackson (LT)
• Steve Avila (LG)
• Allen/Shelton (C)
• Joe Noteboom (RG)
• Rob Havenstein (RT)

McClendon seems to be top option at tackle in case of emergency.

[zn]

Steve Avila will be an Anchor at LG for the Rams for the next decade. https://t.co/xdDTL1wsGn

— Allen Sales (@AllenSales) August 20, 2023

[InvaderRam]

i’m starting to feel good about this oline. jackson has been a revelation. just very glad to hear he grabbed that spot early in training camp. i believe this will be his first season coming out of training camp as the starting left tackle? his third year total. just hope he can stay healthy.

 

also love avila’s tude. i think the oline could surprise.

[zn]

InvaderRam wrote:

i’m starting to feel good about this oline. jackson has been a revelation. just very glad to hear he grabbed that spot early in training camp. i believe this will be his first season coming out of training camp as the starting left tackle? his third year total. just hope he can stay healthy. also love avila’s tude. i think the oline could surprise.

+1

If Jackson is a solid LOT, that’s an incredible coup. Finding an LOT as a UDFA. Not a high pick, not a big trade, not a high market FA signing. LOTs are as hard to find as qbs. In fact the Rams have had notorious bad luck with high picks at LOT (excluding Pace). St. Clair, Barron, Smith, Robinson. So if Jackson turns out fine, this is a big deal.

[InvaderRam]

zn wrote:

So if Jackson turns out fine, this is a big deal.

 

yeah it would be huge. but i’m not quite ready to claim victory yet. this season will be his first true test. he did look promising last year in limited action. but mostly i’m glad that he came right out the gate and snatched it from noteboom. that speaks volumes to me. there was no controversy. it seemed like he outright just took it.

 

the only thing that worries me is he hasn’t lasted a full season yet healthy. but i feel much more comfortable than i did at the beginning of training camp.

 

but yeah if this works, what a find by the rams. left tackle has been my biggest worry since whit left.

[zn]

Worth mentioning five #Rams OL finished with an 84 or better pass protection grade:

Zach Thomas
AJ Arcuri
Tremayne Anchrum Jr.
Steve Avila
Grant Miller pic.twitter.com/BEgK8h6ncb

— JAKE ELLENBOGEN (@JKBOGEN) August 20, 2023

[zn]

#PunishJumpers (Steve Avila) pic.twitter.com/lpHrIeqpye

— Brandon Thorn (@BrandonThornNFL) August 14, 2023

[zn]

Cameron DaSilva@camdasilva

The Rams have 3 linemen in the top 20 for pass-blocking grades, according to PFF: Anchrum, Avila and Miller. None of the three has allowed a single pressure this preseason

[Zooey]

zn wrote:

Cameron DaSilva@camdasilva

The Rams have 3 linemen in the top 20 for pass-blocking grades, according to PFF: Anchrum, Avila and Miller. None of the three has allowed a single pressure this preseason

 

That’s good, right?

[zn]

Blaine Grisak@bgrisakTST

Tremayne Anchrum hasn’t allowed a single pressure all preseason while Joe Noteboom continues to not be able to practice.

[zn]

Rams’ ‘best 5’ O-linemen still aren’t playing together — and that could be a problem

Jourdan Rodrigue

https://theathletic.com/4799764/2023/08/23/rams-offensive-line-problems/

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. — Like he has for the last few practices, Los Angeles Rams offensive lineman Joe Noteboom went through individual drills ahead of Wednesday’s joint practices with the Denver Broncos. Then, still in his pads and helmet, Noteboom stood to the side as team drills began.

Noteboom, who tore his Achilles last season but was cleared for full participation as training camp began last month, is dealing with what head coach Sean McVay says is an unrelated injury (and has declined to share more detail). I have watched Noteboom closely during and after practices, and have noted his effort in workouts with team medical and athletic training staff, as he works to return from that injury.

He’s clearly trying to come back, but Noteboom missing time right now is significant. He may eventually be the Rams’ starting right guard, but he has taken few reps there and when he did, they were in rotation with Tremayne Anchrum. In fact, the Rams moved him away from a competition at left tackle and into a new competition at right guard with just a few days left in their Irvine, Calif., training camp. In everyone’s perfect scenario, Noteboom would have gotten productive snaps in joint practices against both the Las Vegas Raiders last week, and the Broncos this week.

After all, McVay has emphasized, and re-emphasized the importance of getting the Rams’ “best five” offensive linemen consistent snaps with each other, and with quarterback Matthew Stafford. But all of the sudden, it’s late August. And while I think I know what the line will look like into the regular season — Alaric Jackson, Steve Avila, Coleman Shelton, Noteboom, Rob Havenstein — I haven’t seen that group get any consistent competitive work together.

I asked McVay on Wednesday whether he believes that, when healthy, Noteboom is one of the Rams’ best five.

“I think he’s played that way during camp,” McVay said. “The interesting thing is, to get better at football you have to be able to play football. We want to be able to find that five, and the way it fits together. It’s hard to be able to see that when you don’t have people out here. All we can do is continue to work with the guys that are available. Want to see them continue to take steps in the right direction.

“But,” he added, “I’ve been super pleased with the camp that Joe has had. I think he’s played outstanding at tackle and guard. When he gets back, we’ll have to figure out which one of those spots we want to be able to rep him at.”

Let’s say Noteboom gets back next week. Or the week after. Or in time for the season opener in Seattle on Sept. 10. Based on what McVay is saying, it seems like Noteboom will go to right guard — where he has taken very few reps either in practice, competitive joint practices or in games, and where the language and technique is completely different than at left tackle. Noteboom was rotating with Jackson at left tackle through the first part of training camp. But with a few days left in those Irvine sessions, Noteboom started rotating at right guard and spent little time rotating at left tackle. McVay noted Noteboom’s ability at tackle, too, but moving him to left tackle and Jackson away from the position he’s played competitively for a solid month would be insane, and I’d be really surprised if that’s an option.

It’s a positive thing that, through the injury-riddled chaos of 2022, the Rams discovered undrafted free-agent Jackson’s knack for left tackle. That doesn’t absolve the fact that Jackson was already on the roster when the Rams signed Noteboom to a three-year, $40 million extension ahead of the 2022 season with the intent that he would be their starting left tackle. Previously, in between significant injuries, Noteboom had also played left guard and was the extra tackle in jumbo run-blocking sets. The Rams may not have had enough data back then to discern Jackson as their future at left tackle, but they certainly were aware of Noteboom’s injury history.

Let me be quite clear: I don’t believe their current issues are something Noteboom, Jackson or any of these players should get blamed for. Noteboom can’t help the injuries, and he certainly has very little say in the way he’s gotten moved around from position to position over the last couple of years. He also is more than capable of handling the mental toll such positional whiplash demands. And, lest we forget, Noteboom was prepared to return from an Achilles tear in less than a year, and the effort he had to have put into rehabbing behind the scenes must have been enormous. All Jackson has done is win a job. Offensive line coach Ryan Wendell has been praised by coaches and players alike for his efforts in maximizing the group and especially bringing along young players like Avila, who will likely start at left guard.

No, this goes deeper than the players or assistant coach, or seems to. This reeks of inconsistent position philosophy in a post-Andrew Whitworth world, of fluctuating and perhaps even at times impulsive decision-making by an organization that must figure out what type of personality it wants its offensive line to have, and then to stick with it. The Rams are already learning a big lesson from their need-based selection of lineman Logan Bruss at pick No. 104 in the 2022 draft, who they plugged in at guard because they had to fill the spot despite it not being his natural position; Bruss is now relearning the right tackle job for the first time in the NFL with mixed results. Position flexibility is an applauded quality by coaches toward linemen (Side question: Have we considered whether the linemen applaud it?). But it’s really supposed to be an adjustment to a problem: One player goes down, so another can fill in wherever in a pinch. Too much shuffling is not a way to maximize potential of one player, in the right role that is specific to their abilities. Just because a lineman can play multiple roles, should they have to?

Football is cruel. It will hurt you if it can. It brutalized Stafford last season to the tune of 29 sacks, 63 hits, two trips to the concussion protocol and one bruised spinal cord, all in just nine games. One month ago, McVay said this as the Rams prepared to open training camp: “We want to do everything in our power to make sure we’re protecting him. We left him … whether it was play call, scheme, there (are) a lot of different reasons. … We want to do a much better job of keeping him upright. There’s a lot of things that go hand in hand with that.”

Is McVay concerned that this group still doesn’t have a solidified five players playing every rep together this close to the start of the 2023 season?

“You know what, I’m not going to waste my time with stuff that, hey — is it ideal? No. But it’s not something that I’m gonna waste any sort of time on,” he said. “When those guys are back, we’ll continue to coach them up. But in the meantime, we’ve got minimal opportunities to be able to get better.”

To Stafford’s credit, he’s feeling great and he said directly that he’s not concerned about all of the shuffling.

“I think everybody that has been in there has been doing a great job,” Stafford said, “and I think Wendy (Wendell) is doing a great job getting them ready to go. Whoever we have in there at the time, man, let’s go play. I can’t sit there and think about anything other than what I’m seeing on the back end, or trying to get us into the right play. Those guys have been doing a great job. I think the biggest thing that we’re stressing, and those guys are showing, is just (to) play with an attitude. We’re a big front when we got those guys out there. Go play physical.”

That’s fair and a good comment by a team leader who wants to just “go play.”

But up front, who will be doing that?

[wv]

Jourdan doing her part,

to lower expec-tations.   🙂

 

If the Rams need Joe Noteboom to be a good player,  my expectations are now

lowered.

 

w

v

[zn]

wv wrote:

Jourdan doing her part, to lower expec-tations. If the Rams need Joe Noteboom to be a good player, my expectations are now lowered. w v

I didn’t read Rodrigue that way, ie. that they need Noteboom per se. In fact all reports on Rams OL play this summer rate Anchrum’s play very highly. I just thought Rodrigue was getting at the idea that the Rams need to settle who their “best 5” line is sooner rather than later, and the Rams delaying that because of NB’s latest injury doesn’t help things. The Rams also haven’t named a starter yet between Allen and Shelton.

BTW I’m not certain I agree with her that they need to name the starting OL pronto, like right now. I’m not sure that’s as crucial as JR argues it is.

The good news from that article IMO is that everyone is pretty high on the new OL coach, Wendall. Fwiw, no one had spoken of the 2 previous McV OL coaches, Kromer and Cadberry the way they’re speaking of Wendall now (though Kromer did have a long history of success, which continues to this day in Buffalo). We’ll see if the positive buzz on Wendall holds up.

[zn]

A possible Rams OL will have 9 players:

Jackson, Avila, Allen, Noteboom, Havenstein, Anchrum, Thomas, McClendon and Shelton. (Not clear what will happen with Bruss.)

As many have noted this could be a very deep OL, though in terms of its quality, much depends on Jackson, as we all know.

There are other OL getting good buzz from camp and the pre-season. The names I have heard are Miller, Thomas, and McAllister. Miller is actually the son of Fred Miller, the Rams ROT in 99. I can’t be certain which of the new OL players who performed well this summer will stick, but I do know the depth will very likely continue into the practice squad.

One of the things that seems to be happening is that, as mentioned, Ryan Wendall is looking like he’s a very good OL coach. Interestingly, Wendall’s background includes being coached as a player by NE’s great (in fact, legendary) OL coach Dante Scarnecchia, and then working with former Rams OL coach Aaron Kromer as an assistant OL coach in Buffalo in 2022. (His stint in Buffalo included, interestingly, working with Rodger Saffold, who was a Bills guard in 2022).

[zn]

Rodrigue, from: https://theathletic.com/4813893/2023/08/28/rams-joe-noteboom-stetson-bennett/?source=emp_shared_article

Joe Noteboom

As Noteboom walked out of the training room for his interview, his face still dripped with sweat from his first day back at practice as the team tapers him into a full workload. He also wore a large brace wrapped tightly around his left shoulder and chest. Noteboom missed both sets of joint practices with the Las Vegas Raiders and Denver Broncos earlier this month after suffering what he says is a minor upper body soft-tissue injury (hence the protective brace).

“It was something really small, kind of a maintenance thing,” he said. “They just wanted to be cautious and not make it a longer thing than it is. But I feel great, 100 percent now.”

Noteboom will be competing at right guard now that he’s back on the field. While he was injured, part of his work on the side of the field with athletic trainers included movement drills specific to the footwork he’ll need to adjust for at that position — not only because Noteboom is switching from tackle to guard, but also from left tackle (he also has played some left guard) to right guard.

<p class=”go-deeper-title”>“Anyone that has played (will) say switching sides isn’t easy,” he said. “That’s why I’m doing (those reps) over and over and over again every day. At this point, it feels comfortable now. At the end of the day it is just flipped. Same footwork and technique (as left guard), just flipped. Takes the body a little time to adjust, but I feel 100 percent comfortable at it now.”</p>

External speculation has swirled around Noteboom, in part because head coach Sean McVay did not disclose the nature of his injury but also because the Rams traded for Pittsburgh Steelers guard Kevin Dotson this week. Some have questioned whether the Rams were trying to trade him (although it is unlikely that McVay would have even publicly mentioned a new injury at all if that were the case, since teams aren’t required to report them to the NFL this time of year). A league source said Sunday that the Rams view the Dotson addition as a boost to their depth.

Noteboom said he’s more interested in proving himself to his teammates than those outside the building.

“I want to be a great player for this team, and for these coaches,” he said. “I have the utmost respect for Sean and all the coaches here. Matthew (Stafford), Cooper (Kupp) and AD (Aaron Donald). Just what they do, I want to be on that level and be the best I can be, for them and for this team — and take a step forward in that aspect.”

While Noteboom is still building into a full practice workload, Monday marked the first time the Rams’ possible starting offensive line practiced together since the start of training camp. If Noteboom does get the starting right guard job, the offensive line will feature Alaric Jackson at left tackle (Noteboom had competed with Jackson there through most of camp), rookie Steve Avila at left guard, Coleman Shelton at center, Noteboom, and Rob Havenstein at right tackle.

[zn]

Sean McVay said "there's a good chance" of Joe Noteboom starting at RG on Sunday.

— Stu Jackson (@StuJRams) September 8, 2023

[Author]

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