Tell me why. Why?

Recent Forum Topics Forums The Rams Huddle Tell me why. Why?

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  • #56011
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Before the season started, the consensus was that Keenum was good enough that he wouldn’t be the reason the Rams lost. Not good enough to be the reason the Rams won, but they were strong enough elsewhere that they needed a QB who was decent. Most of us expected wildcard contention, and many of us – myself included – expected a wild card berth. The defense was seen as a strength. And although there were some questions about the secondary (losing Jenkins and McCleod), we had Gaines coming back and some depth there that had looked good developmentally. The offensive line was young and growing, and figured to be the strongest OL in years having exceeded expectations last year with so many rookies and youngsters. The WR are adequate, and could be good – so we thought – if a QB could get them the ball reasonably well. Gurley is All-Pro, and Cunningham is a great #2, and depth at RB seems really, really good.

    Now, I don’t think Keenum IS the reason the Rams are losing, but I don’t know for sure. I don’t know what the calls are, and if he is going through his progressions, or just checking down to the safe stuff. In other words, I don’t know what he ISN’T doing, only what he IS doing. But I assume he is not just throwing 2 yard passes and ignoring open WRs 13 yards downfield. Because if he was doing that, the coaches would be pissed. So I assume he is more or less doing what he is asked to do, and it seems to me, that he is doing that adequately. As has been said many times, he is a good #2. Nothing more than that. He isn’t a strength, and he isn’t a trainwreck. He will be employed in this league for years to come.

    The WRs still aren’t great, but they don’t seem to be a glaring weakness. The secondary has exceeded my expectations. So what the hell is going on?

    I don’t know. I would say the biggest surprises to me are the unproductiveness of the running game and the lack of sacks. Not only does Gurley have anemic statistics, his longest run of the year is 16 yards. He is not finding holes, and when he gets through, he doesn’t make it far. Why? It’s not like he has lost a step. On defense, the Rams have 10 sacks in 7 games. I am guessing most of us would have lost any bets placed on that total. The DL was the acknowledged strength of the team. Ten sacks. I know the DL has been injured somewhat, but I don’t think that accounts for it by itself. Why have these two areas regressed so much?

    Before the season started, I would have guessed Gurley would have had about 600 – 700 yards rushing by now. And the defense would have 20+ sacks.

    And I think if those things had happened, the Rams would be 5-2.

    Why haven’t they happened?

    #56012
    sanbagger
    Participant

    The defense has done remarkably well considering what they have had to work through…losing the #1 corner and safety to FA then during the season losing Tru, Brockers, and Quin…so they have adapted and played more cover 2 and only rushing the 4 down linemen. I believe they are calling less blitzes because they are trying to give the backfield extra help.

    The offense is moving the ball as well as we have seen it in years. The problem is they are 1 dimensional now…this O is not built to have CK throw it 50 times a game and TG run it 15.

    The O-line is still very young and we are seeing a little growing pains…they didn’t take the next step I expected.

    The receivers are catching just about anything this side of the moon…so refreshing to see..did you see how many drops Detroits receivers had against the Rams? Reminded me of the good guys circa last year.

    If CK throws the ball 45+ times, MTL we lose the game…that’s just the way I see it. We want CK around 25-30 and that would be balance..right now they are an unbalanced team and they just don’t have the firepower for that.

    #56013
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I assume they are throwing it that much because they can’t run it.

    Looks like opponents are game-planning Gurley. Stop him from running. Make Case beat them through the air. And while he has been able to move them, he hasn’t been able to get them in the end zone enough so that Ds have to protect that.

    Why not? He doesn’t have a strong arm, but he’s reasonably accurate. And they have hit some deep passes this year. And the WCO is all about short stuff anyway.

    I gotta say I wonder about play-calling. And I have never been one to point at OCs before. But I just wonder this time. There are things the Rams did well last year that they don’t do well this year (run generally, run Austin). And things they do well this year that they don’t do enough of (slants). And where are the TEs? Something is wrong.

    And the OL isn’t BAD. They don’t allow many sacks, anyway. 16 sacks allowed.

    #56014
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    keenum is doing enough considering what he is – a second string qb. i’d actually go as far as to say he is doing more than enough.

    i think the problems are lack of a running game, dl injuries, and gross mental errors as the main culprits.

    one of my fears on the dline is quinn is just not the old quinn. perhaps the back injury has sapped him of some of his power, flexibility and explosiveness.

    i also question the scheme and playcalling, but i really don’t know enough for it to be anything more than just a suspicion.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Avatar photoInvaderRam.
    #56039
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    This is not a well coached group of players.

    58 penalties, tied for 3rd. These penalties are huge momentum turners. It happened again Sunday.

    Tavon on special teams. Doesn’t it seem that this guy always calls for a fair catch inside the 10 on a punt? He did it again on Sunday.

    the miscommunication on the last play. All this bullshit is lack of coaching.

    They should have won the last 3 games but these guys are not well coached to do the little smart things to win games.

    I can’t blame the playing calling too much, the Rams have had some decent time consuming drives while converting 3rd downs…although I was very surprised on the pass to Tavon in double coverage that was picked in the end zone only because they called the exact same play one play sooner when Quick mistimed the jump to make the catch…

    Case hasn’t been too bad, bottom line though is he hasn’t been blessed with clutchness..he wasn’t clutch last year in Baltimore (concussion didn’t help) or SF, nor this year in any of the past 3 games where he was in position to deliver.

    I think Case could be though, he fielded a bad shotgun snap to convert the 4th and 10 on the final drive and put the team in striking distance.

    Needbetter coached players to close a game out. I think all RAMS fans saw that final play and thought WTF?

    The Rams are there in talent, very close….Kicking and punting have been great, defense is solid, WR play has been very decent and starting to show signs of consistency, which will open up the running game.

    Need better discipline and coaching to ensure the little things are done right to win these close games.

    #56040
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    nor this year in any of the past 3 games where he was in position to deliver.

    To be fair though it’s not as bad as that. The go-ahead score coming from behind against Tampa came at the end of the 3rd quarter. The go-ahead score to come from behind against Arizona was at the end of the 4th.

    #56041
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    i’m also concerned about the turnovers given up and turnovers forced. defense can’t get any offense keeps coughing them up.

    #56046
    PA Ram
    Participant

    I also think Gurley himself is just having a bad year. I don’t know exactly what’s happening with him–but even when he slips through the line he seems easily tackled. Or he seems to trip up easier. Yes–the line isn’t opening gaping holes. But I don’t think Gurley is making the most of what he does get. Maybe last year was a bit of a fluke? Maybe–and this is a scary thought–he isn’t a great runner.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #56047
    sanbagger
    Participant

    i’m also concerned about the turnovers given up and turnovers forced. defense can’t get any offense keeps coughing them up.

    Great point. turnovers have been the killer.

    The good guys have been in every game except 1, and in those types of games the turnover at the critical juncture is the turning point and that’s been the demise.

    CK has been a big culprit but TG has dropped it c acouple of times and TA gave the D a tip drill INT so…it’s been a team thing with CK leading the pack.

    #56051
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    CK has been a big culprit but TG has dropped it c acouple of times and TA gave the D a tip drill INT so…it’s been a team thing with CK leading the pack.

    To me this is still the running game. CK is not supposed to be leading a passing attack. He is supposed to be game managing a running offense combined with a tough defense.

    If CK were starter material born to lead passing attacks for a run-less team with up and down defense, then, he would already be someone else’s starter before this.

    He’s supposed to be a good game manager plus intangibles. We know he’s not clutch enough (though he has done it a couple of times) and so we know he can’t win shoot-outs. But then they weren’t supposed to be IN shoot-outs.

    CK as a game manager on a running team would be more than just fine IMO…it would be enough to win, a lot.

    So I hope they fix the run game somehow during the bye.

    .

    #56055
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I think zooey’s original post was great. Great questions and commentary.

    Personally, i dont have it all figured out. It seems there’s a different problem every week.
    One week the D plays well but the O falters. Another week the O looks great and the D gives up too much. There have been times the running game actually worked, btw — in the first half at Detroit it was working.

    I guess its a lot of things.
    Out of syncness at times. Probly due to offensive changes.
    Playing a quality back-up QB.
    Quinn, Brockers and Hayes playing hurt or not playing at all (think about that one, long and hard),
    Tru being out cost them big in at least one and maybe two games.
    The Mystery of this OLine — who is GRob? Why cant they runblock anymore?
    The Move also probably affected them in that first game, at least.
    Flat-out Personnel weaknesses — Tavon’s weaknesses (bad hands) cost them big-time in the Giant game. Quick will never be Jerry Rice. Britt is up and down.

    And then there’s Jeff Fisher. Its year five. What do we make of him and his coaching this year? I dunno.

    They could easily be 5-2 this year if you subtract a pick6 here and a penalty there, etc.
    But, ya know, we say that every year.

    One peculiar aspect of all this is — this is not the team of the future. Whatever we say about this team, wont be true next year, cause this is the year of Keenum. And next year is the year of Goff. This is just an odd year, a transition year.

    They can still be a lowlevel playoff team if they eliminate one or two dum plays per game, and if Quinn, Brockers, Hayes get healthy, and Tru comes back. They can still do it.

    w
    v

    #56061
    sanbagger
    Participant

    CK has been a big culprit but TG has dropped it c acouple of times and TA gave the D a tip drill INT so…it’s been a team thing with CK leading the pack.

    To me this is still the running game. CK is not supposed to be leading a passing attack. He is supposed to be game managing a running offense combined with a tough defense.

    If CK were starter material born to lead passing attacks for a run-less team with up and down defense, then, he would already be someone else’s starter before this.

    He’s supposed to be a good game manager plus intangibles. We know he’s not clutch enough (though he has done it a couple of times) and so we know he can’t win shoot-outs. But then they weren’t supposed to be IN shoot-outs.

    CK as a game manager on a running team would be more than just fine IMO…it would be enough to win, a lot.

    So I hope they fix the run game somehow during the bye.

    .

    Well said…I agree with all of that.

    Part of being a game manager is limiting mistakes…he has to be better with his decision making IMO.

    I still look at all the games this year and they have been in every one of them except the niner game…this team is close and still not firing on all cylinders…tells me they are underperforming.

    #56080
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Part of being a game manager is limiting mistakes…he has to be better with his decision making IMO.

    I still look at all the games this year and they have been in every one of them except the niner game…this team is close and still not firing on all cylinders…tells me they are underperforming.

    ————-
    Well said.

    I’d also add, that ‘because’ they are not firing on all cylinders and underperforming,
    there is hope. Cause those things can change.

    w
    v

    #56089
    bnw
    Blocked

    I can’t think of anything that was supposedly known about this Rams team going into this season that has proven to be true.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #56166
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Now, I don’t think Keenum IS the reason the Rams are losing, but I don’t know for sure. I don’t know what the calls are, and if he is going through his progressions, or just checking down to the safe stuff. In other words, I don’t know what he ISN’T doing, only what he IS doing. But I assume he is not just throwing 2 yard passes and ignoring open WRs 13 yards downfield. Because if he was doing that, the coaches would be pissed. So I assume he is more or less doing what he is asked to do, and it seems to me, that he is doing that adequately. As has been said many times, he is a good #2. Nothing more than that. He isn’t a strength, and he isn’t a trainwreck. He will be employed in this league for years to come.

    You say a lot of things in that post I agree with. Basically, a solid running team with a good defense was going to get by with a game manager qb who didn’t have to carry the team.

    And it has been the opposite. Keenum is stretched past his normal limits trying to carry a team that can’t run and has an up and down defense.

    I will say this though. Keenum’s problems show up in the clutch when it all hinges on him to come back from behind. They were in that situation 5 times and won just 2 of them.

    BUT in relation to the specific paragraph I quote, in spite of the shortcomings, no Keenum has done okay outside of those clutch, end of the game situations.

    That’s really visible in the numbers.

    IF you agree that they improved and changed on offense, at least passing, since games 1 and 2, then you see some startling numbers. They WOULD be ranked, for example, 5th in both 3rd down conversions and yards per attempt … pretty big milestones since they’ve been bad at both for a long time.

    But I don’t make that about just him. The passing game has to be constructed, gameplanned, and game day called right for those things to work like that. I see CK as just effectively executing what they ask him to.

    .

    #56170
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Basically, a solid running team with a good defense was going to get by with a game manager qb who didn’t have to carry the team.

    And it has been the opposite. Keenum is stretched past his normal limits trying to carry a team that can’t run and has an up and down defense.

    Yes. This. I am seeing this.

    IF you agree that they improved and changed on offense, at least passing, since games 1 and 2, then you see some startling numbers. They WOULD be ranked, for example, 5th in both 3rd down conversions and yards per attempt … pretty big milestones since they’ve been bad at both for a long time.

    What?

    Am I reading that right?

    Throw out the SF and SEA games, and they are 5th in 3rd down and YPA?

    #56171
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    What?

    Am I reading that right?

    Throw out the SF and SEA games, and they are 5th in 3rd down and YPA?

    Yes. You read that right.

    Third down conversion percentage.
    First 2 games: 22.2%. So bad it is below the current 32nd ranking.
    Last 5 games: 46.2%. Last I looked that would be 5th.

    YPA.
    First 2 games: 4.13. So bad it is below the current 32nd ranking.
    Last 5 games: 7.8. Last I looked that would be 5th.

    BTW, and I don’t have a first 2/last 5 breakdown on this, here’s another stat. “Big passing plays” of 25 yards or more (this metric includes RAC, it’s not all “ball in the air only.”) On this stat, Rams are tied for 3rd in the league.

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