Teams don't trust the Pats

This topic has 34 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 2 months ago by zn.

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September 8, 2015 at 12:34 pm #30072

PA Ram
Participant

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/08/patriots-cheating-suspicions-bill-belichick-tom-brady?xid=si_social

Multiple teams called Seattle, unsolicited, with advice on how to secure the team’s practices for the Super Bowl. Their message was clear: You’re not playing John Fox’s Broncos again. You’re facing Bill Belichick and the Patriots. You never know who might be watching.

The Seahawks trained in Tempe, on Arizona State’s outdoor practice fields, which left a large perimeter to secure. They worked hard to secure it. They hired extra guards and scanned any area nearby with a vantage point of the field. Security personnel monitored what locals call “A” Mountain, the 1,400-foot hill that towers above the university’s athletic complex. They combed the parking garage and parking lots between Sun Devil Stadium and the practice fields. And they checked around the boundary of the complex, where baseball and softball fields and various buildings provided clear views of Seattle’s Super Bowl drills. Several observers who have attended practices for other Super Bowls noted the unusual, Secret Service–like level of activity.

The Seahawks didn’t discover any covert operations. Most of the time New England’s opponents don’t.

But they almost always look.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

September 8, 2015 at 12:36 pm #30073

PA Ram
Participant

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-patriots-sent-team-employees-to-steal-opponents-play-sheets/ar-AAe4CzM?li=BBgzzfc

In fact, many former New England coaches and employees insist that the taping of signals wasn’t even the most effective cheating method the Patriots deployed in that era. Several of them acknowledge that during pregame warm-ups, a low-level Patriots employee would sneak into the visiting locker room and steal the play sheet, listing the first 20 or so scripted calls for the opposing team’s offense. (The practice became so notorious that some coaches put out fake play sheets for the Patriots to swipe.) Numerous former employees say the Patriots would have someone rummage through the visiting team hotel for playbooks or scouting reports.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

September 8, 2015 at 12:38 pm #30074

PA Ram
Participant

There will always be questions attached to their dynasty.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

September 8, 2015 at 2:37 pm #30075
lyser
Participant
Hi PA.

That ESPN story dredging up spygate just before opening weekend is a gift to us all – up there with novel dissociates and unexpected sex in terms of things that make me smile.

The Pats are getting killed in the media right now and those asterisks next to their Lombardi Trophies are becoming more and more cemented into the mainstream consciousness with every news article, TV spot and ESPN ticker tape mention.

The news isn’t really new – “Spygate – The Untold Story” by Brian O’Leary came out in 2012, but probably was not widely digested by the sheeple on your block. Now, ESPN is milking the story for clicks and views – rock on tabloid sports network!

If we had to lose that stupid game in New Orleans, having the one two years earlier, the NY Giants taking it to them twice (once nullifying their bid for the perfect season), deflategate and now this brutal ESPN report somewhat dulls that pain.

There is probably a saying about how you shouldn’t take pleasure in another’s misfortune, but those bean masticating deviants deserve to choke in a cloud of their own rancid flatulence while being dry humped in the court of public perception.
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by lyser.
September 8, 2015 at 3:35 pm #30077

NERam
Participant

lyser wrote:

There is probably a saying about how you shouldn’t take pleasure in another’s misfortune, but those bean masticating deviants deserve to choke in a cloud of their own rancid flatulence while being dry humped in the court of public perception.

LOL, shore paints a purty mental picture…

September 8, 2015 at 5:14 pm #30078

lyser
Participant

Oh, um…fuck the Patriots. Forgot to say that earlier.

September 8, 2015 at 5:18 pm #30079

joemad
Participant

i said this many times… 3 Super Bowls during Spy Gate……. all by 3 points or less…

It only takes one 3rd down stop to win a game by 3 points…..

Fuck The Patriots……

“Do your Job” and Cheat……..

September 8, 2015 at 6:05 pm #30080

wv
Participant

Well yeah Fuck the Patriots and all,
but seems to me what beat the Rams
was Kurt getting hit and throwing to Ty Law
for the huge-pick-Six, and then
Proehl fumbling what would have been a big play.
Ya know.

Spying or no-spying, you cant give the ball to the Pats.

w
v

September 8, 2015 at 6:26 pm #30084
lyser
Participant
fuck u wv – we only lost because they cheated whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, if u read Martz’s comments he acknowledges what u say – 3 turnovers I think it was – that was the difference.

Sad thing – that 2001 Ram team was better than the ’99 team. We win that game 9 out of 10 times.

I will never believe the “better team won” that day – how do we know Law was not tipped off on the route via signal theft? How do we know they didn’t abduct Proehl the night before, place a Ceti eel larvae in his ear thus rendering him susceptible to the suggestion that he fumble away a big play at a critical moment? Huh? How do we KNOW? They obviously are big fat cheaters – I wouldn’t put anything past them. Cool thing is everybody knows it now – asterisk firmly in place. Laff.

Also, I strongly suggest you remove that fuckin’ utube link in your post – fucking disgusting – nobody wants to see that.

Oh, and fuck the Patriots again.
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by lyser.
September 8, 2015 at 7:17 pm #30087
znhater
Blocked
WV, You mean the play were Vrabel hit Warner in the head and it wasn’t called? I firmly believe the league was in on this as well, at least early on. What team better to win the Super Bowl after 9/11 than the “Patriots”.

Oh yeah and fuck the patriots.
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by znhater.
September 8, 2015 at 7:20 pm #30090
znhater
Blocked
lyser wrote:

fuck u wv – we only lost because they cheated whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, if u read Martz’s comments he acknowledges what u say – 3 turnovers I think it was – that was the difference.

Sad thing – that 2001 Ram team was better than the ’99 team. We win that game 9 out of 10 times.

I will never believe the “better team won” that day – how do we know Law was not tipped off on the route via signal theft? How do we know they didn’t abduct Proehl the night before, place a Ceti eel larvae in his ear thus rendering him susceptible to the suggestion that he fumble away a big play at a critical moment? Huh? How do we KNOW? They obviously are big fat cheaters – I wouldn’t put anything past them. Cool thing is everybody knows it now – asterisk firmly in place. Laff.

Also, I strongly suggest you remove that fuckin’ utube link in your post – fucking disgusting – nobody wants to see that.

Oh, and fuck the Patriots again.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by znhater.
September 8, 2015 at 7:28 pm #30092

zn
Moderator

Martz drops Spygate bombshell in ESPN investigation

Ben Frederickson

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ben-frederickson/martz-drops-spygate-bombshell-in-espn-investigation/article_5cccd6fb-4ee2-5ba1-9c20-2f4f936c8574.html

It’s been a rough stretch for the NFL’s public image, and former St. Louis Rams coach Mike Martz is the latest to pile on.

The 64-year-old came off the top rope from a cabin in Idaho.

Just when it seemed like Deflategate had finally gone flat, the Patriots’ latest scandal managed to find new life AND link itself to another mess born of the team’s all-around unethicalness. Deflategate, meet Spygate. Oh, boy.

ESPN on Tuesday published an exhaustive investigation that says the Patriots’ Spygate scandal — you remember, the mess that leaked out when Bill Belichick’s corner-cutting resulted in a Patriots’ video assistant getting caught illegally filming the New York Jets during a week-one game in 2007 — went deeper than we thought.

So deep, ESPN reports, that league investigators discovered the Patriots kept a library of scouting material, opponents’ play calls included. This stash reportedly held information gathered from the rogue recording of opponents’ signals between 2000-2007. That’s new information that Goodell probably didn’t want us to know. While he handed out hefty fines and docked a draft pick, he reportedly ordered that the hard evidence from the library be destroyed.

The big-picture takeaway is this: Goodell tried to hammer the Patriots for Deflategate because the NFL owners who are also his bosses believed the Patriots got off relatively easy for Spygate.

But back to Martz, whose footnote in the 18-page report is going to stick in the craw of Rams’ fans forever.

Think any of those nuked videos or shredded notes helped the Patriots beat the Rams 20-17 in Super Bowl XXXVI?

If you didn’t already, you will probably ask yourself that every time you see a replay of Adam Vinatieri’s game-winning field goal from 2002.

Sounds like Martz does the same.

“It was hard to swallow because I always felt something happened but I didn’t know what it was and I couldn’t prove it anyway,” Martz told ESPN in July, during an interview in his summer cabin in the Idaho mountains. “Even to this day, I think something happened.”

This isn’t an unnamed source hinting at foul play. This is a former coach calling out the Patriots on the record. The NFL should be terrified of guys like Martz. He has nothing to lose.

Call it sour grapes if you want. Or, call it the truth from a guy who no longer has to cater to The Shield.

If the Patriots had Rams-specific intel in their now-empty library, we’ll probably never know. But the report goes on to mention a more-concrete reason St. Louis should feel at least a little cheated.

Depending on whom you believe, the Patriots either did or did not film the Rams’ Super Bowl walk-through before the big game.

Former Patriots videographer Matt Walsh claimed he and at least three other videographers watched the Rams’ final practice, then reported back some valuable information, like the fact that Rams running back Marshall Faulk was returning kickoffs and the addition of new redzone plays. But Walsh can’t produce hard evidence, something the Patriots cling to. Maybe it didn’t make it out of the library.

But wait. There’s also the hint of a cover-up.

Martz, who coached the Rams from 2000-05, also told ESPN that Goodell called him in 2008 and asked him to provide a statement saying he was satisfied with the league’s look into Spygate. Arlen Specter, a senator from Pennsylvania, was calling for a congressional investigation. Martz, canned by the Rams in 2006, was the offensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers.

“He (Goodell) told me, ‘The league doesn’t need this. We’re asking you to come out with a couple lines exonerating us and saying we did our due diligence,'” Martz told ESPN.

Martz agreed to release a statement through the 49ers.

“I was stunned at Matt Walsh’s allegation that he was on the sideline in New England Patriots apparel during our walk-thru,” read one part. “I find that insulting, disturbing and a slap in the face to both our team security and NFL security, who both do outstanding jobs. I promise you that if he was on the sideline, he was not in New England Patriots apparel because he would have been identified.”

Now that Martz is out of coaching, his tune has changed. He balked when ESPN reintroduced his statement from 2008.

“It shocked me,” Martz told ESPN. “It appears embellished quite a bit — some lines I know I didn’t write. Who changed it? I don’t know.”

Don’t worry.

I’m sure the NFL will get to the bottom of it.

September 8, 2015 at 7:32 pm #30094

zn
Moderator

Former Rams coach Mike Martz says NFL asked him to exonerate Patriots

Nick Wagoner

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/21161/former-rams-coach-mike-martz-says-nfl-asked-him-to-exonerate-patriots

EARTH CITY, Mo. — Of the many interesting and deeply reported details in Seth Wickersham and Don Van Natta Jr.’s story about the New England Patriots and the NFL, there’s one section of particular interest for the St. Louis Rams and their fans.

In it, they detail the fallout of the initial Spygate incident before Super Bowl XXXVI in which it was alleged that the Patriots taped or viewed the Rams’ pre-game walkthrough before playing New England in that game. More than 13 years after the Rams lost to the Patriots in one of the biggest Super Bowl upsets of all time, former Rams coach Mike Martz revealed some intriguing details of how the NFL handled the investigation into Spygate.

According to the story, Martz said that after the league had conducted its 2008 investigation, commissioner Roger Goodell called him and encouraged him to release a statement saying he was satisfied with the investigation and its subsequent fallout. At the time, Martz was working as the offensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers and said he took the call while on the 49ers practice field.

Martz recalled a five-minute conversation in which he said Goodell sounded “panicked” about U.S. Senator Arlen Specter’s call for a deeper look into the situation. Martz said Goodell asked him to write a statement clearing the Patriots and asking everyone to move on.

From the story:
“He told me, ‘The league doesn’t need this. We’re asking you to come out with a couple lines exonerating us and saying we did our due diligence,'” says Martz, now 64 years old and out of coaching, during a July interview at his summer cabin in the Idaho mountains.

A congressional inquiry that would put league officials under oath had to be avoided, Martz recalls Goodell telling him. “If it ever got to an investigation, it would be terrible for the league,” Goodell said.

That’s not where the story ends, though. Martz actually complied with the request and sent a statement to the league. When Wickersham and Van Natta showed him the statement that was released, Martz didn’t recognize it.
Shown a copy of his statement this past July, Martz was stunned to read several sentences about Walsh that he says he’s certain he did not write. “It shocked me,” he says. “It appears embellished quite a bit — some lines I know I didn’t write. Who changed it? I don’t know.”

Within the past few years, Martz had hoped to get back into the NFL, which could offer a logical explanation on why he didn’t publicly reveal this information until now. But there’s no doubt that Martz was disturbed enough by what he thought was New England’s wrongdoing to change how he operated as coach of the Rams.

The Rams fired Martz in 2006 in part because the loss to New England still lingered amongst the decision makers in the front office. Before he left St. Louis, Martz had grown so weary of potential videotaping that he had large pillars and a screen built on a hill overlooking the practice fields at Rams Park in an effort to block would-be videotapers from checking into a hotel across the street and filming the practice. It cost the team tens of thousands of dollars.

The pillars (without the screen) still stand today as a sort of tribute to paranoia. But based on the findings in the piece and how Martz still feels about the situation, that tribute isn’t the only thing that still lingers.

September 8, 2015 at 7:35 pm #30096
bnw
Blocked
znhater wrote:

WV, You mean the play were Vrabel hit Warner in the head and it wasn’t called? I firmly believe the league was in on this as well, at least early on. What team better to win the Super Bowl after 9/11 than the “Patriots”.

Oh yeah and fuck the patriots.

Yes I believe it. The officials deliberately ignored the rules that benefit the Rams offense. Martz and some players also said there was a play that was only used for that game that only was practiced at the Super Dome and in the Super Bowl the Pats defense was set perfectly for it. The spying and taping was done against the Rams in that Super Bowl and no one gave a damn then and no one does now. Nasty Fixed League.
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by bnw.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.
September 8, 2015 at 7:48 pm #30100

wv
Participant

lyser wrote:

fuck u wv – we only lost because they cheated whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, if u read Martz’s comments he acknowledges what u say – 3 turnovers I think it was – that was the difference.

Sad thing – that 2001 Ram team was better than the ’99 team. We win that game 9 out of 10 times.

I will never believe the “better team won” that day – how do we know Law was not tipped off on the route via signal theft? How do we know they didn’t abduct Proehl the night before, place a Ceti eel larvae in his ear thus rendering him susceptible to the suggestion that he fumble away a big play at a critical moment? Huh? How do we KNOW? They obviously are big fat cheaters – I wouldn’t put anything past them. Cool thing is everybody knows it now – asterisk firmly in place. Laff….

Yeah three Turnovers by the Martz offense
and Zero for the Belichex offense. Ah well.

As for the hit on Warner — yeah, the Refs missed the call on that one.
Shoulda been a penalty and they missed it. Ah well.

As for the argument Belichex had his henchmen
inject a Ceti Eel Larae in Proehl’s ear,
and said Eel Larvae placed hypnotic suggestions in Proehl’s mind
that he should fumble at a critical time — Well, yes, I believe that happened.
But then Martz should have adjusted to that. I mean, he had to know
the Refs were going to allow Eel Larvae and he didnt adjust to it
until the fourth quarter. By then it was too late.

Fuck the Patriots,
wv

September 8, 2015 at 8:04 pm #30101

InvaderRam
Moderator

problem is those turnovers don’t exist in a vacuum. we don’t know what events, which could have been influenced by information obtained by the patriots spying, occurred prior to that which influenced what happened on any one of those turnovers. and not just the plays themselves. but even plays prior to those plays. unconverted third downs. third and longs. hits to warner. and even on the other side giving the patriots an advantage on offense.

we’re just left to wonder exactly how much the patriots knew. and it only makes it worse that they only won by a field goal.

September 8, 2015 at 8:14 pm #30103
InvaderRam
Moderator
i remember when the nfl insisted that concussions had no long-term effect on the health of football players…

i’m sure the same goes that spygate had no effect on the patriots winning…
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by InvaderRam.
September 8, 2015 at 10:52 pm #30110

joemad
Participant

“”””””Well yeah Fuck the Patriots and all,
but seems to me what beat the Rams
was Kurt getting hit and throwing to Ty Law
for the huge-pick-Six, and then
Proehl fumbling what would have been a big play.
Ya know.

Spying or no-spying, you cant give the ball to the Pats.”””””

Turnovers are easier to come by when YOU KNOW WHAT PLAY IS BEING CALLED AND BEING RUN!!!!!

Patriots = hulk hogan and NFL = WWE

I’m so disgusted with the lesgue right now for stuff that I have suspected since the Tuck Rule…

September 9, 2015 at 12:15 am #30119

InvaderRam
Moderator

not sure i buy that a fix was in but i do believe the patriots cheated.

September 9, 2015 at 8:55 am #30124

Dak
Participant

A lot of things came together to help the Patz that game. We’ll never know just how much the Patriots cheated and how much it helped them, but, yeah, I’m sure they cheated. And, I would guess that most NFL fans believe they did. I’d like to see a public opinion poll to see people’s beliefs on this. Would be interesting, but it wouldn’t change anything, I guess.

September 9, 2015 at 9:10 am #30125

wv
Participant

Dak wrote:

A lot of things came together to help the Patz that game. We’ll never know just how much the Patriots cheated and how much it helped them, but, yeah, I’m sure they cheated. And, I would guess that most NFL fans believe they did. I’d like to see a public opinion poll to see people’s beliefs on this. Would be interesting, but it wouldn’t change anything, I guess.

Well, issue One is what did the Patriots do and
when did they do it,
and how significant/meaningful was the cheating.

Issue Two, is what did Goodell do and why did he
do what he did.

Both issues are murky and interesting.

w
v

September 9, 2015 at 10:52 am #30126

PA Ram
Participant

lyser wrote:

Hi PA.

That ESPN story dredging up spygate just before opening weekend is a gift to us all – up there with novel dissociates and unexpected sex in terms of things that make me smile.

The Pats are getting killed in the media right now and those asterisks next to their Lombardi Trophies are becoming more and more cemented into the mainstream consciousness with every news article, TV spot and ESPN ticker tape mention.

The news isn’t really new – “Spygate – The Untold Story” by Brian O’Leary came out in 2012, but probably was not widely digested by the sheeple on your block. Now, ESPN is milking the story for clicks and views – rock on tabloid sports network!

If we had to lose that stupid game in New Orleans, having the one two years earlier, the NY Giants taking it to them twice (once nullifying their bid for the perfect season), deflategate and now this brutal ESPN report somewhat dulls that pain.

There is probably a saying about how you shouldn’t take pleasure in another’s misfortune, but those bean masticating deviants deserve to choke in a cloud of their own rancid flatulence while being dry humped in the court of public perception.

How’s it going, Lyser?

I will always have a sick feeling in my gut about that Super Bowl. I felt it at the time when the Patriots were allowed to blatantly mug Faulk. Take out Faulk and you take the wheels off the GSOT. Belichick didn’t have to be a genius to know that and the refs allowed them to do it. And what a HUGE advantage it would be for your defense if you know the plays that are coming and can adjust to the right defense. This bothered the players and Martz and now it’s pretty clear that this coach made a living off of cheating. This was a close game. Those advantages–taking out Faulk, knowing how players are used or what’s coming could have made all the difference.

I will never give the Pats credit for that game.

I don’t know what could convince me to look at it any other way.

And the NFL which allowed this to happen undermines their sport. If people ever believe this is the WWE on any level they will walk away. I LOVE the NFL. I LOVE the Rams. I may put blinders on to feel that way because I don’t want to walk away from it. But it makes me sick.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

September 9, 2015 at 11:38 am #30127
NERam
Participant
I wouldn’t mind seeing something like this meted out. Scarlet letter kind of thing…

http://s5.postimg.org/q61urytdj/Patriots.png
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by NERam.
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by NERam.
September 9, 2015 at 1:45 pm #30130
wv
Participant
NERam wrote:

I wouldn’t mind seeing something like this meted out. Scarlet letter kind of thing…

http://s5.postimg.org/q61urytdj/Patriots.png

OMG, that made me smile.

Really, nothing else ever has to be said —
just that picture. The picture says it all.
Really, it does.

w
v
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by wv.
September 9, 2015 at 7:46 pm #30141

Zooey
Moderator

I like that. I stole it, and put it on Facebook.

September 9, 2015 at 9:05 pm #30144

bnw
Blocked

I do not like it. The asterisk is not appropriate for cheating. The asterisk represented a new record achieved by the rules. Stripping the Patriots of their Lombardi Trophies is appropriate. Both Belichick and Brady should have been barred from the NFL for life like the Chicago Black Sox.

The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.

September 9, 2015 at 10:42 pm #30154

NERam
Participant

bnw wrote:

I do not like it. The asterisk is not appropriate for cheating. The asterisk represented a new record achieved by the rules. Stripping the Patriots of their Lombardi Trophies is appropriate. Both Belichick and Brady should have been barred from the NFL for life like the Chicago Black Sox.

Well, FWIW, I’m not too too far off from that. Living up here in Patriotville is rough at times; the judges override of Bradys suspension let loose a barrage of self righteous “See, See, I told you so’s” from jubilant friends, neighbors and relatives. Not good times.

But, realizing the fact that neither Belichick nor Brady are going anywhere, I took a particular liking to Lysers suggestion, and tried to think of a way to bring that to reality…

There is probably a saying about how you shouldn’t take pleasure in another’s misfortune, but those bean masticating deviants deserve to choke in a cloud of their own rancid flatulence while being dry humped in the court of public perception.

I also like Zooeys idea to take it to Facebook. Living up here, I’m sure to get a lot of “likes” on my page. Can’t wait.

September 9, 2015 at 11:34 pm #30157
NERam
Participant
A little bit more easy reading…

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/are-the-new-england-patriots-super-bowls-tainted-by-cheating/ar-AAe6VwS
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by NERam.
September 10, 2015 at 12:32 am #30159

InvaderRam
Moderator

i hope that brady and belichick are never inducted into the football hall of fame. the writers should freeze them and anyone associated with those superbowls out of the hall of fame.

September 10, 2015 at 4:55 am #30169

znhater
Blocked

What was the picture? The link was dead.
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