Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › Spags on Patz cheating in Phil/NE superbowl…expanded: Martz on did Patz cheat
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January 30, 2018 at 8:10 am #80570
znModeratorFormer Eagles coach Steve Spagnuolo: Patriots cheated during 2005 Super Bowl
Rob Tornoe
Are the Patriots cheaters? At least one former Eagles coach thinks so.
Steve Spagnuolo, who was the linebackers coach for the Eagles in 2005 when the team faced off against the Patriots in Super Bowl XXXIX, told 97.5 The Fanatic’s Anthony Gargano and Bob Cooney on Monday that he now believes late Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Johnson was right about New England cheating during the game.
“The biggest thing we learned was make sure you have two signal callers, not one signal caller, because they may have all your signals,” Spagnuolo said, referring to the “SpyGate” scandal, in which coaching assistants under the direction of head coach Bill Belichick were caught videotaping play-calling signals from opponents’ practices.
“I remember through the course of the game Jim [Johnson] saying, ‘They’re getting our signals. They know when we’re blitzing … try to hide it.’ I remember distinctly thinking. ‘I don’t think so Jim, just concentrate on calling the game,’ ” Spagnuolo recalled. “In hindsight, he was right. When you go back and look at that tape, it was evident to us. … We believe that Tom [Brady] knew when we were pressuring him because he certainly got the ball out pretty quick.”
Spagnuolo, who became the Giants’ defensive coordinator following the 2007 season, said he used the experience to prepare him ahead of New York’s Super Bowl XLII victory against the Patriots.
“It wasn’t going to happen in the 2008 Super Bowl,” Spagnuolo said.
Listen (Spagnuolo’s full interview with Gargano and Cooney can be heard here):
According to an ESPN investigation of “SpyGate,” the Patriots didn’t stop with stealing play-calling signals. The videotaping drew the attention of the league after a camera was confiscated from a video assistant during a 2007 win against the New York Jets.
At least one former Eagles staffer is quoted in the story, telling ESPN he believed Belichick’s willingness to cheat cost the Birds a fair shot at winning the Super Bowl:
When Spygate broke, some of the Eagles now believed they had an answer for a question that had vexed them since they lost to the Patriots 24-21 in Super Bowl XXXIX: How did New England seem completely prepared for the rarely used dime defense the Eagles deployed in the second quarter, scoring touchdowns on three of four drives? The Eagles suspected that either practices were filmed or a playbook was stolen. “To this day, some believe that we were robbed by the Patriots not playing by the rules … and knowing our game plan,” a former Eagles football operations staffer says.
As part of the league’s punishment, the Patriots lost their first-round pick in the 2008 NFL draft, and Belichick was fined $500,000. After the league’s investigation, Commissioner Roger Goodell reportedly ordered the tapes destroyed, saying at the time, “I think it was the right thing to do.”
“The Patriots are cheaters,” CNN host Jake Tapper, a Philadelphia native and lifelong Eagles fans, said following the team’s win over the Vikings. “The Patriots cheat. This is just a fact as established by investigations. They’re a cheating team… the facts speak for themselves.”
January 30, 2018 at 8:43 am #80571
JackPMillerParticipantThe Pats are known for this. Even Marshall Faulk has been talking about how the Patriots stole Super Bowl 36 from us.
January 30, 2018 at 8:55 am #80574znModeratorThe Pats are known for this. Even Marshall Faulk has been talking about how the Patriots stole Super Bowl 36 from us.
People talking does not mean they are “known” for something.
It means they are talked about a certain way.
And Faulk doesn’t have evidence, just a belief. We call that “a rumor.”
I believe the Patz have cheated. I also do not believe the fact that people SAY they did is evidence.
January 30, 2018 at 9:04 am #80575
wvParticipantIt would be nice to know ‘how much’ they cheated, and whether or ‘how much’ it affected actual outcomes of meaningful games.
It would also be nice to know how much ‘other’ teams have cheated in the NFL over the years. It would put things in context.
Like, ya know, maybe the Cleveland Browns have been cheating for the last decade. Ya know.
w
vJanuary 30, 2018 at 9:31 am #80576
nittany ramModeratorIt would be nice to know ‘how much’ they cheated, and whether or ‘how much’ it affected actual outcomes of meaningful games.
It would also be nice to know how much ‘other’ teams have cheated in the NFL over the years. It would put things in context.
Like, ya know, maybe the Cleveland Browns have been cheating for the last decade. Ya know.
w
vI would be interested in knowing what constitutes cheating. Obviously video taping another team’s practices is a no-no because the Pats were punished for that but is stealing signals really cheating?
January 31, 2018 at 12:05 am #80594
HerzogParticipantYep there’s no evidence. Those tapes being destroyed is the most suspicious thing in the history of suspicious things.
January 31, 2018 at 12:54 am #80600znModeratorYep there’s no evidence. Those tapes being destroyed is the most suspicious thing in the history of suspicious things.
I don’t agree with the “tapes destroyed is suspicious” thing.
I think it’s a mountain made out of a tiny pencil drawing of a molehill.
January 31, 2018 at 5:43 am #80601
Eternal RamnationParticipantThe signals did them zero good without knowing which play they were signaling . And yes they are known for cheating year after year. Once a cheater always a cheater. The aggravating part is they’re so good they don’t need to, Brady is GOAT and so is Belichick . If the spygate tapes were really nothing at all there would be no reason to destroy them. You destroy them for damage control.
January 31, 2018 at 6:55 am #80602nittany ramModeratorPace and Bruce think the Pats cheated as well…
January 31, 2018 at 8:00 am #80603znModeratorObviously video taping another team’s practices is a no-no because the Pats were punished for that but is stealing signals really cheating?
Yes it;s cheating.
Though it;s not against league rules.
Why not? It’s unenforceable. So the league says, each team is on its own to provide security,
January 31, 2018 at 9:15 am #80606wvParticipantObviously video taping another team’s practices is a no-no because the Pats were punished for that but is stealing signals really cheating?
Yes it;s cheating.
Though it;s not against league rules.
Why not? It’s unenforceable. So the league says, each team is on its own to provide security,
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I didnt know that. I thought stealing them was fair-game, but videotaping them in order to steal them was a violation.
The Carl Sweetan scandal is still the only one i know where someone tried to sell stuff to another team.
w
vJanuary 31, 2018 at 9:45 am #80607znModeratorI didnt know that. I thought stealing them was fair-game, but videotaping them in order to steal them was a violation.
That’s basically what what I said. So not sure what you’re saying you didn’t know.
January 31, 2018 at 11:16 pm #80617HerzogParticipantYep there’s no evidence. Those tapes being destroyed is the most suspicious thing in the history of suspicious things.
I don’t agree with the “tapes destroyed is suspicious” thing.
I think it’s a mountain made out of a tiny pencil drawing of a molehill.
So you are saying that destroying the tapes is not suspicious? You really believe it’s not suspicious? Are you sure you’re not just “in a mood?
January 31, 2018 at 11:46 pm #80618znModeratorSo you are saying that destroying the tapes is not suspicious? You really believe it’s not suspicious? Are you sure you’re not just “in a mood?
Yes I believe that and here’s why.
1. Because their very existence as tapes violated league rules.
2. The Patz argued that the league could not take the tapes since the tapes had legal things on them which means the Patz owned the tapes. The league response was fine, we’ll just destroy them.
3. The tapes contained stolen signals and so could not be allowed to exist since they could be used, and once the league knew that and had its hands on them, it could not allow them to exist, or it would be party to their use. The league’s power to destroy them came from point #1—the very existence of such tapes violated league rules.
And this is crucial—IT IS NOT AGAINST LEAGUE RULES TO STEAL SIGNALS OR TO USE STOLEN SIGNALS. The league considers that unenforceable so that security is up to each individual team.
THEREFORE the tapes could not contain anything else that violated league rules.
The existing rule the Patz DID violate was to tape signals. They were busted and punished for that.
So unless someone can name another rule the Patz could have (hypothetically) violated, then I think the whole “destroyed evidence” is just not all that.
January 31, 2018 at 11:55 pm #80620HerzogParticipantTaping another teams pracices is not against league rules?
February 1, 2018 at 12:21 am #80621znModeratorTaping another teams pracices is not against league rules?
I don’t think it is. Again. The league’s approach is to consider security to be a team issue and problem, not a league issue and problem.
And.
Using stolen info isn’t against the rules. It’s considered unenforceble.
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February 1, 2018 at 9:47 pm #80634
TSRFParticipantI heard Spags interviewed this afternoon. He stated that during the last Eagles – Pats Super Bowl, Eagles DC Jim Johnson told the other coaches he thought the Pats were stealing his signs.
Spags stated he didn’t think it was cheating, since there are no rules against it, and anybody smart enough to do it does.
February 2, 2018 at 12:38 am #80639HerzogParticipantSo Billichek was fined 500 k and the Pats has to give up draft picks…. for not doing anything wrong? I feel like I’m in crazytown
February 2, 2018 at 1:30 am #80640znModeratorSo Billichek was fined 500 k and the Pats has to give up draft picks…. for not doing anything wrong? I feel like I’m in crazytown
No he broke a rule and the Patz were punished for breaking that rule. The rule was taping. The NFL rule is you cannot tape signals.
To quote from the account at the time, they were fined for “use of equipment to videotape an opposing team’s offensive or defensive signals.”
THAT is the rule they violated.
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February 2, 2018 at 3:13 pm #80651HerzogParticipantSo they are cheaters. I can move on now
February 2, 2018 at 10:29 pm #80665znModeratorMike Martz Opens Up About Patriots Cheating Allegations In Super Bowl XXXVI
Logan Mullen
Mike Martz Opens Up About Patriots Cheating Allegations In Super Bowl XXXVI
Ten years ago to the date, a bombshell story was published in the Boston Herald alleging that the New England Patriots filmed the St. Louis Rams’ practices prior to the two teams meeting in Super Bowl XXXVI.
Although the report was retracted and an apology was issued three months later, the notion has stuck with the Patriots and often is fodder for those looking to make a case against New England’s dynasty since the turn of the millennium.
The Rams head coach at the time, however, doesn’t hold the Patriots at fault if they did, in fact, videotape St. Louis’ practices.
Mike Martz spoke candidly about the ordeal Friday on FOX Sports 1’s “Undisputed,” and it certainly doesn’t sound like he’s someone who is holding ill feelings regarding the situation.
“I don’t know if they did or not, I’ve been told that they filmed all of our practices,” Martz said. “If it helped them, I didn’t see it in the game necessarily. I don’t know what the stats were, but we had like 450 yards, and they had like 150. They didn’t spy on the right thing then. We lost that game because we turned the ball over three times, not because somebody spied on us. So if they did spy on us, it didn’t affect us, so I don’t really care about that, I really don’t.”
Here are his full comments:
"We had like 450 yards and they had like 150 yards. They didn't spy on the right thing then. We lost that game because we turned the ball over 3 times, not because somebody spied on us."
Former Rams head coach Mike Martz on the Patriots spying before Super Bowl XXXVI pic.twitter.com/WZpINNwQox
— UNDISPUTED (@undisputed) February 2, 2018
Tough to argue with Martz’s logic, although to be specific, the Rams had 427 net yards to the Patriots’ 267. Some Rams players from that team still question if the Patriots actually did film their practices, with running Marshall Faulk being chief among them, as well as quarterback Kurt Warner to a degree. The head coach, however, certainly sounds like he has moved past it.
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