Ray Rice suspended cut by Ravens, Suspended indefinitely by NFL

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  • #6919
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    As for Ray Rice…IF he actually gets to the point of contrition, I’ll be open to hearing it. If you listen to that press conference where he tells Janay Palmer Rice to apologize for “her role in the incident” by saying, “don’t you have something to say?” as if, “look, you. This is part YOUR fault.”

    That to me SCREAMS that Ray Rice is still a full on abuser and is having ZERO part of any rehabilitation.

    Now that he’s suspended, I’m QUITE sure he blames her…whether it’s because she couldn’t take a punch or “fell wrong” so she “got herself knocked out on the railing” or… well, you name it.

    Let’s be clear. I’m all for second chances…for the contrite.

    So, until and unless Ray Rice truly comes to grips with what he did, takes responsibility for it IN AT LEAST AS PUBLIC A WAY AS HE ASKED JANAY TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HER BEATING, then I hope he’s NOT let off the hook, that people do NOT let him move on and that he’s constantly reminded that he IS a batterer.

    Why? Because…he’s not going to change until he’s going to change. And at this time, he’s shown exactly zero signs that he cares to change.

    I mean, really. Putting his wife out front to apologize to the world for putting her face too quickly in front of his fist and not being able to retain consciousness when her head slammed into the rail?

    Nope. Too often in this fast food nation we want everything quick, even if it isn’t done which lets people off the hook if they’ll only just stand still long enough to let everyone’s attention drift to something else (which only takes a few minutes usually these days). Well, Ray Rice can turn to stone and I’ll still see him as a batterer until HE changes. I don’t need his victims to apologize. I don’t need other shit to happen in the universe to distract me.

    Where’s his pain? Where’s his angst? Where’s his difficult journey? Anyone see Ray Rice walking that road? I sure as hell don’t.

    The day he’s contrite and actually gives a shit about change, then and only then, will *I* give a shit about Ray Rice getting a chance to move on.

    Oh, and since domestic violence is epidemic in this country and desperately needs TONS more discussion… I’m perfectly content to let Ray Rice continue to be the poster boy for it as long as he…well, I was going to say faking his contrition, but he’s not even trying to do that. So, as long as he’s a proud batterer, he can be plenty out front afaic.

    Why is ANYONE concerned about Ray Rice getting the chance to move on so quickly, anyway?

    Yeah, i agree with all that.

    w
    v

    #6920
    LadyRamFan
    Participant

    Yeah, i agree with all that.
    w
    v

    I do too. I hope he doesn’t blame Janay for everything but he probably will.

    I don’t see Goodell stepping down or the owners removing him. Perhaps this will raise awareness of domestic violence.

    #6921
    Dak
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Mackeyser wrote:</div>
    As for Ray Rice…IF he actually gets to the point of contrition, I’ll be open to hearing it. If you listen to that press conference where he tells Janay Palmer Rice to apologize for “her role in the incident” by saying, “don’t you have something to say?” as if, “look, you. This is part YOUR fault.”

    That to me SCREAMS that Ray Rice is still a full on abuser and is having ZERO part of any rehabilitation.

    Now that he’s suspended, I’m QUITE sure he blames her…whether it’s because she couldn’t take a punch or “fell wrong” so she “got herself knocked out on the railing” or… well, you name it.

    Let’s be clear. I’m all for second chances…for the contrite.

    So, until and unless Ray Rice truly comes to grips with what he did, takes responsibility for it IN AT LEAST AS PUBLIC A WAY AS HE ASKED JANAY TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HER BEATING, then I hope he’s NOT let off the hook, that people do NOT let him move on and that he’s constantly reminded that he IS a batterer.

    Why? Because…he’s not going to change until he’s going to change. And at this time, he’s shown exactly zero signs that he cares to change.

    I mean, really. Putting his wife out front to apologize to the world for putting her face too quickly in front of his fist and not being able to retain consciousness when her head slammed into the rail?

    Nope. Too often in this fast food nation we want everything quick, even if it isn’t done which lets people off the hook if they’ll only just stand still long enough to let everyone’s attention drift to something else (which only takes a few minutes usually these days). Well, Ray Rice can turn to stone and I’ll still see him as a batterer until HE changes. I don’t need his victims to apologize. I don’t need other shit to happen in the universe to distract me.

    Where’s his pain? Where’s his angst? Where’s his difficult journey? Anyone see Ray Rice walking that road? I sure as hell don’t.

    The day he’s contrite and actually gives a shit about change, then and only then, will *I* give a shit about Ray Rice getting a chance to move on.

    Oh, and since domestic violence is epidemic in this country and desperately needs TONS more discussion… I’m perfectly content to let Ray Rice continue to be the poster boy for it as long as he…well, I was going to say faking his contrition, but he’s not even trying to do that. So, as long as he’s a proud batterer, he can be plenty out front afaic.

    Why is ANYONE concerned about Ray Rice getting the chance to move on so quickly, anyway?

    Yeah, i agree with all that.

    w
    v

    Yeah, me, too.

    #6932
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    i agree with most of that. but we can’t force him to “show” that he is sorry for his actions. he does his time, and when he’s done, he’s free to do what he wants.

    i don’t think ridicule and public embarassment will make ray rice change. in fact. my guess is it would make him worse. i’m sorry. i’m just not a big believer in demonizing people. there’s a reason why ray rice is the way he is. and it’s not just on him. his father war brutally murdered when he was 1 years old. i can’t imagine some of the things this guy may have endured.

    now that’s not to excuse what he did. but i think it would go a long way in understanding why he is the way he is.

    #6961
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Well, IR, I’m not going to stand outside of his house and pelt him with rotten tomatoes.

    But, I’m also absolutely NOT going to soften nor allow discussions to soften the language about him. He’s not anything other than currently a batterer UNTIL something changes.

    Do we know he’s stopped hitting Janay Rice? Has anyone in the media given a shit about her? Do we even know in all of this now that they’re married, does she even have her own cell phone?

    The first step in domestic violence is isolation. Does she still have access to family?

    I am not trying to swing the pendulum from “Good Guy” to “Demon”, BUT… I’m sure as hell not letting the pendulum go, either and neither is Ray, apparently.

    My point is this. If Ray Rice is going to continue to push the pendulum toward the bad side, then we should F’N PAY ATTENTION before his wife ends up dead. You know… like Jovan Belcher, formerly of the KC Chiefs…. killed his girlfriend, then went to the stadium and killed himself in front of team personnel.

    People want to act as if this story is over.

    Anyone who pays attention to domestic violence stories knows that this is just Chapter ONE. If you haven’t watched that video I posted, really watch it. It’s just unbelievably enlightening.

    Bottom line is that because Ray Rice has not shown any contrition… Janay Rice IS NOT SAFE. And THAT is more than enough reason to keep talking about this.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #6962
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Well, IR, I’m not going to stand outside of his house and pelt him with rotten tomatoes.

    But, I’m also absolutely NOT going to soften nor allow discussions to soften the language about him. He’s not anything other than currently a batterer UNTIL something changes.

    Do we know he’s stopped hitting Janay Rice? Has anyone in the media given a shit about her? Do we even know in all of this now that they’re married, does she even have her own cell phone?

    The first step in domestic violence is isolation. Does she still have access to family?

    I am not trying to swing the pendulum from “Good Guy” to “Demon”, BUT… I’m sure as hell not letting the pendulum go, either and neither is Ray, apparently.

    My point is this. If Ray Rice is going to continue to push the pendulum toward the bad side, then we should F’N PAY ATTENTION before his wife ends up dead. You know… like Jovan Belcher, formerly of the KC Chiefs…. killed his girlfriend, then went to the stadium and killed himself in front of team personnel.

    People want to act as if this story is over.

    Anyone who pays attention to domestic violence stories knows that this is just Chapter ONE. If you haven’t watched that video I posted, really watch it. It’s just unbelievably enlightening.

    Bottom line is that because Ray Rice has not shown any contrition… Janay Rice IS NOT SAFE. And THAT is more than enough reason to keep talking about this.

    Well, usually, if there is a ‘pretrial diversion’ (think of it, essentially as ‘probation’)
    there are conditions attached, such as counseling and psych evals, etc.
    (though, in WV you cant get do a ‘pretrial diversion’ in a
    case involving domestic violence).

    So, fwiw, Rice probably has to undergo some counseling. Fwiw.

    w
    v

    #6969
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Right, he has to go to counseling. And as long as Janay doesn’t show any bruises, call the police or speak out and they keep up the façade, then he’s free to go about his way.

    I would expect him to simply shift HOW he abuses her rather than to stop his abuse.

    Why? Because (I can’t say for certain, but it’s my wager that…) no man who feels THAT comfortable in striking a woman THAT violently IN PUBLIC changes after a few sessions of talk therapy and a suspended sentence.

    I don’t know what recourse the counselor has if he feels Ray Rice isn’t complying or participating other than reporting to the judge. I realize that some of that is based on jurisdiction. Sometimes, those reports can lead to almost immediate violation of the diversionary program and incarceration. Others simply lead to more “negotiation” with the judge over “my client didn’t get along with that therapist” yadda, yadda, yadda…

    I swear, if I won the lottery, I’d go back to school, get my degree in Econ, then go to Law school (I always skew towards Constitutional Law… which, I know is only 1 rung above Accounting Law and 2 rungs above IP law on the boring ladder) and do pro bono law as best as my health permitted.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #6971
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    More great Deadspin reporting…

    http://deadspin.com/the-only-thing-unusual-about-ray-and-janay-rice-is-that-1633583402

    The Only Thing Unusual About Ray And Janay Rice Is That Anyone Noticed

    Diana Moskovitz

    One of my first homicide stories as a young crime reporter was about a woman killed by her boyfriend. One of my last stories as a crime reporter was about a woman killed by her husband. In between, there were too many dead women to count. A few stand out in memory, the ones whose deaths were especially grisly or tragic. But without fail, women slain by the men they loved kept coming across my desk.

    It’s amazing how routine abuse can become. That’s why, whenever a woman turned up dead in South Florida, I knew exactly what to do.

    First, find the old restraining order she’d let expire. Second, pull the file from the courthouse. Finally, find the letter inside in which she’d told the court her boyfriend or husband promised he would never hit her again. Because he’s a changed man. Because this was a one-time incident. Because I’m at fault, too. Because this is not a reflection of our relationship. He’ll never hit me again, the dead women had pleaded—just like Janay Rice did, on national television.

    But this story isn’t about that press conference anymore. It’s about the video that shows Ray Rice with Janay—then his fiancée, now his wife—in an Atlantic City casino elevator. She rushes up to him, and he throws one swift punch. Her body goes horizontal, head slamming into a handrail before she crumples, powerless, to the floor. It happens in seconds, and then come the gut-wrenching moments when Ray Rice stands there, just stands there, over her unconscious body.

    Get angry at what Ray Rice did and get angry at what Roger Goodell didn’t do, but please don’t be surprised by any of it. Not by the hit, not by the blatant attempts to make it look like it was the woman’s fault, not by Rice saying he would never do it again, not even by his wife taking him back. From the beginning, the Ray Rice saga has recapitulated everything awful about how domestic violence plays out in America. It has followed the script perfectly.
    Act I: We Don’t Know All The Facts

    “Michael Diamondstein, an attorney for Rice, says that he’s hopeful that after an investigation ‘the matter turns out to be little more than a misunderstanding.'”—Associated Press, Feb. 16, 2014

    “I really don’t know that situation. With me, I get all the answers. Then that’s when we make decisions within this organization—once we get all the information we can get.”—Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome, Feb. 17, 2014

    Here’s what I remember from watching the nightly local news with my parents as a child: My father’s voice, booming over the reporter’s, with his solution to who killed the woman. It was always the same solution.

    Her boyfriend did it.

    I remember it in that way it’s easy to remember the moments that first nip away at your childhood fantasies, the ones where handsome princes whisk away princesses, Disney-style. My favorite movie at the time was Lady and the Tramp, an animated romp about the romantic adventures of an American cocker spaniel and a stray mutt who defeat an evil rat. Boyfriends killing girlfriends? No way, I would argue with my dad. Even at the age of 5, I knew the unspoken script of denial: We don’t have all the facts; we don’t know what happened that night; maybe someone else is mad at her, too.

    It’s easy to compartmentalize violence, to assume bad things are done by bad people lacking compassion and a moral compass. Nobody wants to believe the most dangerous people in their lives might be the ones they love.

    Except that’s exactly what domestic abuse is, violence and psychological torment wrapped up in a blanket of seemingly earnest “I love you”s.

    Domestic abuse is a spectrum, and the deaths I covered are on it just as surely as Rice’s left hook is. Domestic abuse is the man who hits his wife and promises he’ll never do it again. Domestic abuse is the boyfriend who tells his girlfriend she’s ugly and nobody else would have her. Domestic abuse is the man who won’t let a woman get a job, insisting she rely on money he doles out to her. Victims often feel like they need to stay with their abusers, and the behaviors that abusers use to retain power and control over their victims—isolating them, minimizing whatever happened, laying on guilt about the children—are cyclical in a way that gets literalized in domestic-violence pamphlets as the Power and Control Wheel.

    Too often, this ends fatally. Women are less likely than men to be killed in America, but far more likely than the other sex to be intimate with their killer. Of all the women murdered in 2010, nearly 40 percent were killed by a spouse or someone they were dating, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics. This number has been 30 percent or higher since 1996.

    For men who are murdered, the percentage killed by someone they’re intimate with hovers at about 2 to 3 percent.

    I eventually stopped watching the news with my dad. I got sick of it proving him right.
    Act II: Some Of It Was Her Fault

    “In Ray Rice’s case, he probably deserves more than a two-game suspension which we both acknowledged. But at the same time, we also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there’s real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we’ve got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don’t think that’s broached enough, is all I’m saying. No point of blame.”—Stephen A. Smith, July 25, 2014

    Before you talk about Janay Rice and what she has said, consider this. In 2011, a group of researchers published their findings after studying the recorded detention-center phone calls between 25 couples. In each couple, the man had been charged with felony-level domestic violence and was behind bars while awaiting trial in Washington. In each couple, the victim was a woman. Of the 25 couples, 17 women eventually recanted their stories. The phone calls show exactly how the attackers convinced their victims to do it.

    The Only Thing Unusual About Ray And Janay Rice Is That Anyone Noticed

    Attackers in domestic violence have an advantage most criminals don’t. They have an intimate relationship with their victim and know exactly how to appeal for sympathy. They prey on our capacity to forgive. In the detention-center calls, first the men downplay what happened, then they beg for help. They bemoan the horrors of incarcerated life, fret about their children growing up fatherless, worry about how their victims are doing without them, even threaten to kill themselves. They tell stories about the good times, how they first started dating, invoke the Lord, even Buddha. Finally, the attackers tells the victims to change their stories. It works.

    These are several of those conversations:

    “You gotta sit up front and tell them that what you wrote in the (police) report was a lie.”

    “Uh huh, I will.”

    “No one really knows what happened anyway, it was all kind of a blur, I don’t know what happened.”

    “I know, I don’t know either.”

    “Well, if you don’t know if you really committed a crime … ”

    “But you’ve just gotta’ say .. what you wrote on, in the statement is a lie, that you’re just mad ’cause you thought I was cheatin’ on you with your cousin. If you say that—”

    “Okay.”

    “If you say that, they’ll automatically let me go.”

    “Okay.”

    “I don’t know if you really committed a crime.”

    When the women agree to recant, the couples coordinate what should be said to make everything go away. They start depicting themselves as a united front, even think of ways to protect the attacker, often blaming the government, prosecutors, outsiders for their plight.

    Now, read Janay’s quote again from her press conference.

    “I do deeply regret the role that I played in the incident that night.”
    Act III: He’s A Changed Man, So Let’s Move On

    “I think what’s important here is that Ray has taken responsibility for this. He’s been accountable for his actions. He recognizes he made a horrible mistake, and that is unacceptable by his standards and by our standards, and he’s got to work to reestablish himself. And the criminal justice system, as you know, put him in a diversionary program with no discipline, and we felt it’s appropriate to have discipline, and to continue to counseling programs, and to continue our education and work.”—Roger Goodell, Aug. 1, 2014

    He will act better now is what Kathlin Y. Raigoso told the court. She filed for a restraining order in 2009 after her husband, Erasmo Reina Moreno, hit her with a dumbbell while she was eight months pregnant, according to Aventura, Fla., police. The hit capped several turbulent months during which, Moreno said, the 31-year-old Raigoso had verbally abused him, calling her 72-year-old husband “a decrepit old man and threatening him with violence in the event he does not vacate his own home,” one court record said.

    Like Rice, Moreno pleaded not guilty in his violence case and was placed in a pre-trial diversion program. His wife took him back.

    “I have decided to lift the restraining order and give my children the opportunity to live with their father. I think that he, my husband, will act better now in his home and change his attitude,” she wrote to the court.

    Five months later, they were living apart, but Moreno still had access to their gated community on the day Raigoso came home and found their 10-year-old son gunned to death. Moreno was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound just a few miles away.

    I remember her not because the details shocked me, but because the newer reporter assigned to work on the story with me made me realize just how routine these deaths had become to me. I found the case information for the restraining order online and told the other reporter exactly how to get the file from the clerks and what to look for. He came back with copies of the court file, saying the clerks all had certain looks on their faces when he asked for it. Oh, you want this file? They had been waiting for us.

    Officially, the police said it was still an open investigation, but that felt like a formality. The husband did it.
    Act IV: Half Measures And Consequences

    “I don’t know if I want to get into all the details about it. I think it’s pretty obvious and pretty apparent. Everybody’s seen the video, and we’ll just leave it at that.”—John Harbaugh, Sept. 8, 2014

    I want to believe Ray when says he’ll never hit Janay again. I want to believe he’s a changed man, that he understands why hitting Janay was wrong. I want to believe the cycle of domestic violence can be broken. I want to believe a whole lot of people learned from what happened. But we didn’t.

    Janay Rice is the victim, but on the day Ray Rice was cut by his team, then suspended indefinitely by the league, it was mostly Ray whom everyone talked about. Was his punishment fair? Too harsh? How will he make a living? What kind of precedent does this set for the league?

    If a few people asked about Janay, their voices couldn’t rise above the shouting. She’s the victim, but where were the pundits asking how she was doing? The man who hit her had just lost his job and been sent home—to her. Was she safe? Did anybody ask? Did anybody care?

    As this wore on, I was going through my old clips, trying to find old stories I remembered. But what struck me were all the ones I forgot. Geraldo Regalado, who went on a rampage inside a Hialeah cafe, killing five people, including himself and his estranged wife, because he couldn’t let her go. Larry Daughtry, who killed his girlfriend then left her two young sons alone with their mother’s body for close to 20 hours. John Charles Reasee, whose reaction to hearing he was going to jail for violating a restraining order was to attack his ex-girlfriend in the middle of a courtroom. The judge leaped from his bench and rushed to shield Nicole Word, but Reasee still landed five blows, including one with a closed fist to the side of her head, before he could be brought under control.

    “I thought he was going to kill me,” Word told me back in 2009. “I really did.”

    Reading the quote again, I told myself to focus on the positive, the one thing that made this story different from most of the others I’d written: Janay, Ray and their daughter are all still alive. But otherwise, it’s all the same.

    Image by Jim Cooke

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #6980
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    well. a couple things. i don’t think they’re alone in this.

    my understanding is that ray rice is very close to janay’s father. from what i’ve read he’s almost like a father figure.

    now… that could be either really scary or comforting. i don’t know. i hope that janay comes from a strong family. they’ve known ray since before college. so i would put their relationship at nearly 10 years. i don’t know what happened in those ten years. i don’t know what kind of family she grew up in. my hope is she gets the help and support she needs.

    the other thing is as much as ray needs counseling. janay needs counseling too. she needs to figure out why she is in a relationship with this guy. is it a good relationship for her? or is she putting herself in danger? can they make this relationship stronger or is it only going to deteriorate further?

    #6984
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    well. a couple things. i don’t think they’re alone in this.

    my understanding is that ray rice is very close to janay’s father. from what i’ve read he’s almost like a father figure.

    now… that could be either really scary or comforting. i don’t know. i hope that janay comes from a strong family. they’ve known ray since before college. so i would put their relationship at nearly 10 years. i don’t know what happened in those ten years. i don’t know what kind of family she grew up in. my hope is she gets the help and support she needs.

    the other thing is as much as ray needs counseling. janay needs counseling too. she needs to figure out why she is in a relationship with this guy. is it a good relationship for her? or is she putting herself in danger? can they make this relationship stronger or is it only going to deteriorate further?

    I agree they both need counseling. That’s critical.

    I really hope that Ray does decide to turn his life around. I really do. Redemption is very powerful.

    I just have seen no sign of it. Now normally, I wouldn’t make much mention of it, except that Ray Rice has been very public and Janay Rice is still on social media defending her husband. So, this dynamic just looks like it’s still firmly within the confines of a textbook abusive relationship. And if that’s the case, I hope Janay gets help or out before she’s really hurt or killed.

    I mean, with football, Ray had distractions. Now, Janay has to spend almost all of her time with her abuser. This incident may have shown a spotlight on domestic violence, but in her specific situation, it may have put her at risk of greater harm…again, presuming the public behaviors of Ray Rice are consistent with his feelings on the matter which would make sense considering his public demeanor hasn’t acquitted him very well.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #6985
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Reports: Rice told Goodell truth; Goodell feared backlash for victim

    By Eric Edholm

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/reports–rice-told-goodell-truth–goodell-feared-backlash-for-victim-233406125.html

    Two reports have taken the Ray Rice saga in another direction on Thursday.

    ESPN’s Outside the Lines, citing four sources, is reporting that Ray Rice told NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on June 16 that he punched his then-fiancée Janay Palmer in a casino elevator. In an interview with CBS News, Goodell conversely indicated this week that Rice’s account was “ambiguous” compared to what the full video inside the elevator showed.

    “Ray didn’t lie to the commissioner,” one source told OTL. “[Rice] told the full truth to Goodell — he made it clear he had hit her, and he told Goodell he was sorry and that it wouldn’t happen again.”

    A second source told ESPN something similar:

    “He told the truth,” the second source said. “This is a public lynching of Ray.”

    Wall Street Journal earlier on Thursday reported that Goodell did not serve Rice with a stiffer penalty out of respect for Palmer (now Rice), according to one NFL franchise owner.

    That owner said that Goodell revealed to other owners privately that during his investigation — specifically, in that meeting with the Rices in June — Janay Rice said she had hit Ray Rice and believed she was partly to blame for the incident escalating. According to those private conversations with the owners, Goodell left the meeting with the Rices believing that Janay Rice had become unconscious after falling during the scuffle.

    The ESPN and WSJ reports appear to conflict on that latter point.

    After Goodell suspended Rice for two games in July, per the WSJ report, Goodell told several NFL owners that he felt it might have been insensitive to doubt Janay Rice’s story and come off as an indictment of her character. It appeared that Goodell felt uncomfortable with challenging her story.

    But the ESPN report says there was no ambiguity in what Ray Rice told Goodell about what happened. Although it’s possible that both reports contain truths, it appears that a few anonymous sources view what happened in that June meeting with the Rices a bit differently.

    If the NFL indeed is going to have an independent investigation, these facts should be vetted out over time, and Goodell reportedly has told the investigators that he’s ready to comply with the process effective immediately.

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