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April 20, 2016 at 5:42 pm #42315AgamemnonParticipant
Rating the NFL draft prospects: Quarterbacks
California’s Jared Goff is the top-rated quarterback.Bob McGinn’s NFL Draft Series: Quarterbacks: Scouts’ perceptions flipped on Carson Wentz, Connor Cook
The Journal Sentinel’s Bob McGinn assesses the top quarterbacks in next week’s draft. Included is each player’s height, weight, 40-yard dash time and projected round.
1. JARED GOFF, California (6-4, 217, 4.78, 1): Third-year junior. “Extremely accurate,” one scout said. “Amazing feet and pocket presence. Very similar to (Tom) Brady that way. Can make all the throws. But he has such a slight build. He needs to get stronger. And having played in that spread system he will need to take snaps under center and make adjustments.” Started all 37 games of his career, compiling a 14-23 record. “He was surrounded by nothing,” another scout said. “His best running back had a hip and was hurt all year, the receiver has all kind of talent and he’s a nut job. The rest of them are pedestrian. He might be the most ready but I’d be nervous taking him before 10. Thing I don’t like is his slender build.” Finished with a passer rating of 98.9. Another Cal product, Aaron Rodgers, posted a two-year rating of 102.9 in 2003-’04. “I just don’t see him having that winner quality about him,” a third scout said. “His arm isn’t great. They do a lot of that dink and dunk offense, a lot of that false production. He gets rattled by pressure. Everything has kind of got to be under control for him. He couldn’t win there and you want him to be the face of your franchise?” From Novato, Calif. Small hands (9 inches). Scored 34 on the 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test.
2. CARSON WENTZ, North Dakota State (6-5, 237, 4.69, 1): “Prototypical,” one scout said. “I see everything. Arm strength. Accuracy. Toughness. Athletic ability. Smart. Great kid.” “He’s a genius, Wentz is,” said another scout with knowledge of Wentz’s 40 on the Wonderlic. “He could be really good. He’s the best runner, he’s the best athlete. He is off the charts.” Fifth-year senior from Bismarck, N.D., who didn’t start a game until his fourth year. Finished with passer rating of 105.3. “He gets away with things in that league (Missouri Valley) that he wouldn’t get away with in the SEC,” a third scout said. “He tries to throw in tight windows. Even in the (FCS) title game he threw two picks. The guy he reminds me of is (Blake) Bortles. Everybody was so excited about Bortles because of the height and the athletic ability, and this guy has the same thing. At least Bortles played against big-time competition. At this point I just don’t see where he’s that accurate of a passer.” Compared by that same scout to Ben Roethlisberger. “He’s big, athletic and has a freaking cannon,” a fourth scout said. “Level of competition is the only thing. I’d sit him for a year and a half, two years. Then I got a real starter. He’ll be shoved into the fire too quickly and it may crush him.”
3. PAXTON LYNCH, Memphis (6-6 ½, 246, 4.83, 1): Fourth-year junior. “He’s the guy I like,” one scout said. “He’s got the poise, the vision. You can see what Memphis has done since he’s been there. Guy beat Mississippi and put Memphis on the map. Good athlete. Got all the things I look for in a guy.” Only other offers out of Deltona, Fla., were from Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman. “For a tall guy he doesn’t act like (Dan) McGwire or somebody,” another scout said. “He can get out of trouble. He can run. He can make all the throws. Accuracy is good, not great. Just give him a minute … but Jacksonville gave (Blake) Bortles only four games.” His 36-inch vertical jump tied Cardale Jones for best effort among QBs. His passer rating of 93.5 included 110.6 in ’15. “You might hit the home run with Lynch but because of the mental you might strike out,” a third scout said. “He has the best arm. It ain’t even close. That big, tall son of a gun can run, too. He’s a little spacy, a little different.” Added a fourth scout: “The overall maturity level and disposition, I’d be a bit concerned. Big kid, strong arm. But he’s a ways away mentally.” Wonderlic of 18.
4. CONNOR COOK, Michigan State (6-4, 216, 4.79, 1-2): Three-year starter and winningest QB (34-5) in Spartans’ history. “He has a great release and he improved his feet last year,” one scout said. “He won a whole hell of a lot of games. What All-Americans did they have on offense this year with the exception of the left tackle (Jack Conklin), who missed about four (actually two) games? Could he fail? Yes, because I don’t really know what his mental makeup is. He has talent.” Broke many records set by Kirk Cousins, a three-year captain at MSU from 2009-’11 who is regarded as an all-time leader. “Let’s put it this way: he’s not Kirk Cousins,” another scout said. “The person kills him. Selfish. He goes out too much. It’s a tell-tale sign when your teammates don’t like you, and I know they don’t. He’s good, but that position is more than physical attributes. It’s also leadership. Is he going to lead your guys? I don’t think so. He’ll be a starter but I don’t think he can lead you to the promised land.” Fifth-year senior from Hinckley, Ohio. Passer rating was 95.2, Wonderlic was 25. “He stinks,” a third scout said. “Wildly inaccurate (57.5% career). Average arm, average mobility, average field vision. Not a leader. Not aware. Someone will take him in the second, third or fourth round and he’s going to disappoint. The owner needs to fire the GM right after they pick him if someone takes him in the first. But when the Buffalo Bills took EJ Manuel in the first, all bets are off.”
5. CHRISTIAN HACKENBERG, Penn State (6-4 ½, 222, 4.81, 2-3): Passer ratings were 89.0 as a freshman under coach Bill O’Brien and, under coach James Franklin, 74.2 in ’14 and 83.9 in ’15. “After his freshman year people looked at him as the first pick in the draft,” said one scout. “A premier-type talent like that is so hard to find. He could be as talented as any of these quarterbacks. He’s got the arm, the body. He’s actually a competitor. But when you look at his career you say, ‘Where’s the production?'” Third-year junior started all 38 games (21-17). “People can make every excuse in the book for him but he just hasn’t done it,” another scout said. “He was a Bill O’Brien guy and he had some issues with Franklin. He hangs out more with managers than he does teammates. It tells me he likes to be king of the little people rather than king of the big people.” Tendency to hold the ball led partly to 104 career sacks. “He doesn’t have a clock in his head,” said a third scout. “I understand they had a poor offensive line but that’s too many sacks. Throw the ball away. Do something. He has talent but he scares the hell out of me.” From Palmyra, Va. Wonderlic of 24. Hands were just 9 inches.
6. DAK PRESCOTT, Mississippi State (6-2, 227, 4.78, 2-3): Billed by the Bulldogs as the most decorated player in their history. “This was not a good team but for two years they competed against the best teams,” one scout said. “He was the entire team there. The guy’s just a winner. He’s got patience, focus, makes quick decisions, good arm strength, nice touch, stands tall in the pocket under pressure.” Posted 23-10 record and had a passer rating of 99.6. Also rushed for 2,501 yards and 41 TDs. “He motivated that team, held guys accountable,” another scout said. “I just don’t see the vision downfield. He’s a very streaky thrower. There will be a place for him in the league. I’d take him over Tim Tebow hands down.” Arrested for a DUI in mid-March. Wonderlic of 25. “He’s got no accuracy, got no vision,” said a third scout. “I don’t think he’s an NFL quarterback.” From Haughton, La.
7. JACOBY BRISSETT, North Carolina State (6-3 ½, 230, 4.92, 3): Transferred from Florida after two seasons, sat out 2013 and was the Wolfpack’s MVP the past two years. “He has a chance to be a starter,” said one scout. “I think he’s better than Teddy Bridgewater. He’s bigger, got a better arm and better pocket presence, and is a great kid. People will want to work with him. He’s got this huge lower body. Guys just have a hard time bringing him down. He’s not a speed guy but he’s not a slug.” Compared by another scout to Daunte Culpepper. “Strong arm with a compact motion,” he said. “Just really inconsistent.” Compiled a 90.9 passer rating and rushed for 12 TDs. Wonderlic of 24. “He doesn’t play fast,” a third scout said. “He’s methodical. I don’t know if he can carry a team on his back.” From West Palm Beach, Fla.
8. KEVIN HOGAN, Stanford (6-3, 214, 4.74, 3-4): Posted a 36-10 record, winning three Pacific-12 Conference titles and starting in three Rose Bowls. “He’s more ready than Brissett is,” one scout said. “He is accurate. He does pretty much everything well. He has a funny release. Doesn’t Philip Rivers have a funny release?” His passer rating was 104.2 and his record was 16-6 against AP top 25 opponents. “That (delivery) doesn’t bother me,” said a second scout. “Sonny Jurgensen had a really weird release. Throws it like Philip Rivers. He’s cerebral, smooth.” From McLean, Va. “He’s your old-time pro QB,” said a third scout. “Takes most of his snaps under center. He’s good but not anything special.” Wonderlic of 38.
9. JEFF DRISKEL, Louisiana Tech (6-4, 235, 4.49, 4): Started 21 games in four years at Florida and 13 last year at Louisiana Tech, finishing with a 24-10 record and passer rating of 88.7. “He’s got all the tools in the world,” one scout said. “You’ve just got to get over the fact he was a transfer from Florida. He’s a little bit of a different kid but you want to talk about talent after the (top) three, he’s the next guy. He’s more talented than Cook.” Easily ran the fastest 40 at the position and had the best broad jump (10-2), too. “Any elite quarterback, he’ll test as well as them,” said another scout. “His confidence was shot at Florida. It did take a toll on him. He’s still developing but there’s a huge ceiling.” Has a long history of injury. Wonderlic of 29. From Oviedo, Fla.
10. CARDALE JONES, Ohio State (6-5, 250, 4.80, 4-5): Non-qualifier out of Cleveland Glenville High under coach Ted Ginn Sr., redshirted in 2012 and was third string in 2013-’14 until injuries struck. Played spectacularly in three-game stint culminated by a national title. Started eight of the first nine games in ’15 before being benched for J.T. Barrett, then declared a year early. “You can’t pass a talent like that,” said one scout. “If you’re going to bet on one, bet on a guy with all the talent if he shows you enough want-to.” Passer rating of 97.2, rushed for 617 yards. “Kind of reminds me of a poor man’s JaMarcus Russell,” said another scout. “At least JaMarcus had some touch. This guy just throws the ball. His mechanics are all over the place.” Added a third scout: “Strong arm. Big, big body. Not the brightest cookie in the world. I worry about him when he gets money in his pocket. I just don’t know if it’s all there mentally.” Wonderlic of 25.
11. NATE SUDFELD, Indiana (6-6, 234, 4.93, 5): Three-year starter rewrote the Hoosiers’ record book. “Pocket quarterback,” said one scout. “Very productive this year. Average arm strength. Love to have him as a No. 3.” From Modesto, Calif. Wonderlic of 28. “He did some good things when it didn’t count,” another scout said. “He could get drafted as high as the fifth. I don’t know why the hell you’d do it.” Passer rating of 98.0. Added a third scout: “Kind of a heavy-footed guy.”
12. JOSH WOODRUM, Liberty (6-3, 228, 4.77, 5-6): Four-year starter with passer rating of 94.1 and Wonderlic of 32. “More sizzle than substance,” said one scout. “He’s got arm strength, quick release, he’s athletic. But something is missing. His accuracy is inconsistent. He doesn’t always play smart. He kind of thinks he’s better than everything. I never feel he’s in complete control of the game.” From Roanoke, Va.
McGinn is the new Rick Goselin, the guy with the best connections to NFL teams.
April 20, 2016 at 5:51 pm #42316AgamemnonParticipantGosselin: Rams, Eagles have hope to sell after huge draft trades — all good news for the Cowboys
By Rick Gosselin , Staff Columnist Contact Rick Gosselin on Twitter: @RickGosselinDMN
If you don’t have a quarterback in the NFL, you don’t have a chance.
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That’s the premise for the wild trading to the very top of the draft in the past week by the Los Angeles Rams and Philadelphia Eagles.The Rams, who finished 23rd in the NFL in passing last season, traded six picks to the Tennessee Titans for the first overall selection in the 2016 draft. The Eagles, who ranked 28th in the NFL in passing a year ago, traded five picks to the Cleveland Browns for the second overall choice.
Los Angeles gave Tennessee first-round picks in both 2016 and 2017, a pair of second-rounders in 2016 and a third-rounder in both 2016 and 2017. Philadelphia gave Cleveland first-round picks in 2016 and 2017, a second rounder in 2017 and third- and fourth-rounders, both in 2016.
If a John Elway, Troy Aikman or Peyton Manning was sitting atop of a draft board, the cost of trading up to the top spot would be inconsequential. Franchise quarterbacks are too hard to find. Pay whatever it takes to land one.
But the three quarterbacks sitting at the top of the 2016 draft board – Jared Goff, Carson Wentz and Paxton Lynch – aren’t perceived as the slam dunks Elway and Aikman were when they became the first overall picks of their drafts. Goff posted a 15-21 career record at Cal and Lynch a 22-16 mark at Memphis. Wentz is attempting to make the jump from FCS to the NFL.
If you moved Goff, Wentz and Lynch into the 2015 draft, all likely would have been stacked behind quarterbacks Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, who went 1-2 last April.
But the Rams clearly weren’t enamored with Nick Foles and Case Keenum, who combined to throw as many interceptions (11) as touchdowns last season. And the Eagles were not content to enter another season with brittle Sam Bradford. The draft is all about selling hope, and now the Rams and Eagles have something to sell.
All this is good news for the Cowboys. Jerry Jones had been rattling the cage about possibly taking a quarterback with the fourth overall pick. But did anyone short of the Eagles take him seriously? If two quarterbacks go to open the draft, the Cowboys will see another blue-chip player on the clock that they didn’t otherwise figure to see.
Cornerback Jalen Ramsey, offensive tackle Laremy Tunsil, running back Ezekiel Elliott and pass rusher Joey Bosa all could be there. At least three of them should, anyway. Ramsey, Elliott and Bosa would all address needs, and both Ramsey and Tunsil could become trade chips.
But the one problem remains – the Cowboys are still in dire need of a quality backup quarterback for Tony Romo. They may still draft a quarterback next week. He just won’t be one of the two best on this draft board.
April 20, 2016 at 6:32 pm #42317wvParticipantWell he doesn’t seem to think either QB
is a slam-dunk.I swear, there are so many different views
on these QBs this year. I dont remember
this much variance in the opinions on
a qb class.w
vApril 20, 2016 at 6:37 pm #42318AgamemnonParticipantWell he doesn’t seem to think either QB
is a slam-dunk.I swear, there are so many different views
on these QBs this year. I dont remember
this much variance in the opinions on
a qb class.w
vMy theory is that there really isn’t a lot of difference between the top 4 QBs, but there is a lot of difference between the order that they are rated.
Now we can watch Lynch zoom up the draft boards. 😉
April 20, 2016 at 6:49 pm #42319sdramParticipantI think it’s hard to compare these two because of what their individual playing experiences in college were about.
I love what Goff has to offer and will be excited for the Rams if he’s in LA. But, I prefer they draft Wentz for two reasons – first is that he’s bigger, faster, and stronger and has a better arm than Goff. Second is that Wentz won championships in college. He’s a winner and I would like the Rams to draft a winner and be a winner.
April 20, 2016 at 7:23 pm #42324ZooeyModeratorWell he doesn’t seem to think either QB
is a slam-dunk.I swear, there are so many different views
on these QBs this year. I dont remember
this much variance in the opinions on
a qb class.w
v<span class=”d4pbbc-font-color” style=”color: blue”>My theory is that there really isn’t a lot of difference between the top 4 QBs, but there is a lot of difference between the order that they are rated.</span>
<span class=”d4pbbc-font-color” style=”color: blue”>Now we can watch Lynch zoom up the draft boards. </span>
Dunno. Lynch has a wonderlic of 18 compared to a 40 for Wentz, and a 34 for Goff. That’s a lot of difference in playbook learning.
April 20, 2016 at 7:38 pm #42325ZooeyModeratorWell he doesn’t seem to think either QB
is a slam-dunk.I swear, there are so many different views
on these QBs this year. I dont remember
this much variance in the opinions on
a qb class.w
vYeah, I hear ya on that. Just read Prisco, and he thinks Wentz has accuracy issues….
I wasn’t so sure what he was as a player, but I spent two days this week studying his tape, his All-22 tape. What I saw was a big, raw, athletic prospect with a good arm.
There were things about his game that concerned me though. His accuracy wasn’t great. There were throws behind receivers, in front of receivers and just off-target. That’s one of the major flaws for NFL passers who don’t make it in the league…Wentz also has a tendency to pre-determine where he is going with the football. In other words, he locks on. I hate that. It’s a curse for any quarterback, and a habit he has to break.
April 20, 2016 at 8:04 pm #42327InvaderRamModeratorthe more and more i think about the more i want goff. i’ve done a complete 180, and i don’t think it’s gonna change. i just like him more as a passer. just youtube clips, but his feet are always moving. he seems to be able to throw on the run. i like the comparison to drew brees. i see some drew brees there. doesn’t have brees’ gargantuan hands, but he does have his feet.
but i also think his age is a big plus for me. he’s still only 21 years old which is really young. still has so much more potential to fill out physically. i see this working for him in two ways.
first he’ll be able to withstand more punishment. he’s already durable. did injure his shoulder in 2013 but didn’t miss any games and didn’t miss a beat. but adding more mass should help in that area. and let me say. wentz’s injury history concerns me. he was injured in high school and missed out on a year of development and missed significant time in 2015, so i do not take that lightly. i think his playing style might have somthing to do with that too, and i worry that it will follow him in the pros.
second i think it’ll help with his overall arm strength. not that it wasn’t strong enough, but he might be able to increase it a couple ticks. being only 21 his body is still developing i would imagine. not just his arm strength but his core strength. i think it’s normal for qbs that young to see some increases in arm strength as they get older.
and also just mentally can develop a lot more. he’s supposedly a freak about his mechanics. obsessed with his footwork. he’s already ahead of wentz in this area and having this be second nature to him is more important than learning a pro offense. i don’t know. that’s just my guess. but learning a playbook. learning play action. learning to play under center. is less than difficult to master than keeping your fundamentals from breaking down during the chaos of playing in that pocket. being so young, he can also just fine tune the small details rather than having a complete overhaul which is what wentz might require.
i don’t know. just thinking out loud. i might be totally offbase. but that’s what i’m thinking right now.
April 21, 2016 at 7:38 pm #42371znModeratorScouts’ perceptions flipped on Carson Wentz, Connor Cook
Bob McGinn
Green Bay — The rise of North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz and the fall of Michigan State’s Connor Cook underscore the fleeting nature of scouting reports and how perceptions of quarterbacks can change dramatically in less than a year.
Last May, Cook was ranked second and Wentz 13th among the class of senior quarterbacks by National Football Scouting Inc., the largest of the two scouting combines that serve NFL teams.
Next week, Wentz could be the Los Angeles Rams’ selection with the No. 1 overall pick in the draft, whereas Cook might fall all the way to the second round and possibly even the third.
NFS, whose members include the Green Bay Packers and 19 other clubs, gave Wentz a priority free agent grade of 4.91 entering his senior season. It represented the opinion of one area scout who went to Fargo, N.D., watched tape and wrote a report that was later disseminated and discussed with personnel from all 20 teams.
Among the quarterbacks rated far ahead of Wentz were USC’s Cody Kessler and Arizona State’s Mike Bercovici. Wentz also trailed Liberty’s Josh Woodrum, Massachusetts’ Blake Frohnapfel, Florida State’s Everett Golson and Western Kentucky’s Brandon Doughty, who, like Bercovici, might be pleased just to secure a free-agent contract after the draft.
“The scout missed him,” said a personnel director for one of the NFS member teams. “It was just one scout’s opinion.”
Meanwhile, Cook received a grade of 6.01, making him a late first-round pick.
“In the summer time he was highly regarded,” said an AFC personnel man. “He was overvalued.”
Blesto Inc., the other combine, provided its eight member teams with spring grades from two scouts. Using a far different scale, Wentz received grades of 1.7 (seventh round) and 1.3 (third round), whereas Cook received grades of 1.4 (fourth round) and 1.18 (first round).
Everyone knows that preseason grades represent little more than a starting point for scouts exhausted from one draft and now having to switch gears and prepare for another. The measurements and other basic information are more important for teams than the grade, which will be superseded by team scouts.
Still, it’s rather startling to see how far Wentz and Cook moved in opposite directions. A poll by the Journal Sentinel of 17 personnel men with national orientation reflects the change.
In the survey, scouts were asked to name their five favorite quarterbacks in order, with first place worth five points, second place worth four and so on.
Jared Goff, the junior from California, edged Wentz, 73 to 711/2. Goff had eight firsts, one more than Wentz.
Third was junior Paxton Lynch of Memphis with 52 points (one first) and fourth was Cook, who also had one first and totaled 29.
Following, in order, were Christian Hackenberg (11), Dak Prescott (61/2), Jacoby Brissett (four), Jeff Driskel (31/2), Kevin Hogan (21/2), and Cardale Jones and Nate Sudfeld, each one.
Wentz’ ascension is more the result of his impressive performance on the field and in interviews during the Senior Bowl and combine than a senior season in which he missed eight of the Bison’s 15 games with a broken wrist.
A small-town guy from the North Dakota capital of Bismarck, Wentz seems to have captivated his audience.
“He’s a humble kid that was raised right,” an AFC personnel director said. “He has high ambition, a good mind and a high likability factor. I think very highly of him.”
Of the 69 quarterbacks drafted in the first round from 1984-2015, just two — Steve McNair from Alcorn State in ’95 and Joe Flacco from Delaware in ’08 — hailed from non-FBS colleges.
If Wentz turns out as good as McNair and Flacco, his employer probably would be ecstatic.
Several scouts said their main reservation concerning Wentz was caliber of competition and North Dakota State’s overwhelming march to five straight FCS championships and a 71-5 record.
Wentz walked on and redshirted in 2011, backed up Brock Jensen for two seasons and then started just 23 games (20-3) the past two years. Jensen, from Waupaca, Wis., didn’t last long as a Dolphins free agent in 2014 before finding work in the CFL.
“He has skyrocketed this postseason for a guy being hurt most of the year,” said an NFC personnel man. “It took three years to start in I-AA. I know he had a hell of a career.
“He couldn’t beat out Brock Jensen and now he’s going to be the (top) pick in the draft? He’s just got a scary profile.”
Sixteen of the 17 scouts agreed to pick the best candidate to bust from among the leading passers. Cook led the way with six votes, Lynch garnered five, Hackenberg had three, and both Goff and Wentz had one.
Cook sat out Michigan State’s finest victory (at Ohio State) with a shoulder injury but was MVP of the Big Ten championship game for a second time and broke some of Kirk Cousins’ school records. His rating of 93.3 was in keeping with his first two seasons as a starter, but the more scouts saw the less they appeared to like.
“He’s certainly not a front-line starter that can win you games,” an NFL personnel chief said. “Put him on against Iowa and Alabama if you think this guy can do it. Their biggest win, Ohio State, he didn’t even play.”
Many personnel people have called into question Cook’s “makeup” and ability to become the face of an NFL team.
“Like to have a better work ethic out of a quarterback,” an AFC scout said. “He knows it. I talked to him. He’s a smart kid, a college kid. He liked to hit the streets and chase.
“He wasn’t voted team captain. But, he wasn’t going to get it over (center) Jack Allen no matter what happened.”
That personnel man compared Cook to retired journeyman starter Kyle Orton, and it wasn’t intended as a compliment.
Cook could become the Big Ten’s first quarterback drafted in the first round since Penn State’s Kerry Collins in 1995 when the Nittany Lions had just concluded their second season in the conference.
The Big Ten produced first-round quarterbacks Art Schlichter, Tony Eason, Chuck Long, Jim Everett, Jim Harbaugh and Jeff George from 1982-’90. None of them compared with Tom Brady (sixth round), Drew Brees (second round) and Russell Wilson (third round), who have combined to win six Super Bowls.
“Depth-wise, it’s a good group, but I don’t see the premier guy in there,” an AFC personnel man said. “I would take (Jameis) Winston and (Marcus) Mariota over these guys. They’re Pro Bowlers. These guys are solid starters.”
April 21, 2016 at 7:39 pm #42372znModeratorMcGinn is always an anticipated draft read because he does things like this:
A poll by the Journal Sentinel of 17 personnel men with national orientation….etc.
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