Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › PFW rumors about Fisher, Snead, and next year
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Eternal Ramnation.
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November 24, 2016 at 2:16 pm #59390
znModeratorThe Way We Hear It: Changes coming to the Rams with or without Jeff Fisher
By PRO FOOTBALL WEEKLY STAFF
There are few more buttoned-down owners in the NFL than Stan Kroenke, and most of our sources are having a very hard time getting any real sense of what the futures of head coach Jeff Fisher and general manager Les Snead will be.
But what little we are hearing is that Fisher will most likely be out at the end of the season.
How bad has it gotten under Fisher?
This marks the fourth straight season under Fisher in which the Rams are 4-6. Fisher’s Hard Knocks proclamation that any more “7-9 Bullsh*t” won’t cut it seems safe. With games remaining at New Orleans, New England and Seattle, and home games with Atlanta, San Francisco and Arizona, The Rams, we think, will be hard-pressed to find more than two more wins on the schedule.
And it gets much worse than that.
Fisher’s all-time 173-162-1 record ties him with Tom Landry for the second-most losses in NFL head-coaches’ history, but Landry has 250 wins and six ties.
Fisher needs just four more losses to break Dan Reeves’ all-time record of 165 losses, and Reeves has 190 wins.
Of the 20 least winning coaches in NFL history, only Weeb Ewbank and Norv Turner have lower winning percentages, and Ewbank has 33 fewer losses and Turner has 40 less.
Fisher’s limitations are obvious: he’s a Buddy Ryan disciple who is a very good defensive coach but who doesn’t appear to have a clue on offense.
Strangely, Snead seems to suffer the same flaws as his head coach.
Snead’s picks on defense of Aaron Donald, Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Alec Ogletree, Trumaine Johnson, Aaron Donald and Lamarcus Joyner have been impressive.
Offensive choices including Greg Robinson, Isaiah Pead, Brian Quick, Tavon Austin and Rob Havenstein are not so great.
Todd Gurley looked like a home run last year, but he has disappeared as a sophomore. With Jared Goff it’s too soon to tell. Snead took him because he was allegedly the most ready-to-go of the top QBs, but it took him 11 weeks to get on the field and be every bit as mediocre in his first start as Case Keenum.
Is it a blind spot for Snead, or that Fisher doesn’t know what to do with the offensive picks he’s been given?
Since Fisher was involved in the hiring of Snead, the Rams have a general manager who’s never hired a head coach. Based on the brilliance of the RGIII trade and his defensive picks, it’s possible Fisher goes and Snead gets a chance to stay and pick his own coach.
The conventional wisdom is both will be let go at the end of the year, but here is something we are hearing from very good sources close to Fisher:
Whether it’s part of a campaign to get a contract extension or an actual epiphany, Fisher has decided if he is retained he will bring in a new, veteran offensive coordinator with a free hand to develop Goff and run the offense.
We’re also hearing that this year’s castoffs – Greg Roman, Turner and Greg Olson – could all be candidates, with Turner a heavy favorite right now to get the job.
The question is, do Fisher and/or Snead get the chance to make the move they clearly should have made some time ago?
November 24, 2016 at 2:29 pm #59391
InvaderRamModeratordo we make anything of donald and gurley supposedly ducking interviews?
my opinion. he’s losing this team. maybe i’m wrong, but there’s no fear there. the team continually makes minor errors to cost them games, and no consequences.
but i blame the players too. gotta hold each other responsible. where’s the leadership?
November 24, 2016 at 6:28 pm #59408
JackPMillerParticipantI’m not sold on the Head Coaching choices. Hopefully we will do better than those three.
November 24, 2016 at 6:46 pm #59409znModeratordo we make anything of donald and gurley supposedly ducking interviews?
my opinion. he’s losing this team.
Me? No and no. I don’t agree he’s losing the team; I don’t agree that those 2 players doing that means he’s losing the team.
We know what losing a team looks like cause we saw it with Linehan. Just IMO but, I don’t see anything like the Linehan situation.
Maybe though the team has lost Fisher.
November 25, 2016 at 7:22 pm #59469
HramParticipantNorv Turner as OC next year? That intrigues me.
November 26, 2016 at 2:06 pm #59557
sanbaggerParticipantI still think Fisher is back next year.
Why would ownership agree to extend Austin then bring in another coach? It’s not like TA is a no brainer signing and I believe Fisher was behind the extension…then, if Stan brings in another coach who doesn’t see the value in TA it’s kind of a wasted player.
I would be fine with Fisher staying on and keeping Weinke and Groh and adding a real OC like Turner…Norv with Fisher and GW would turn this team in to a winner IMO. I wanted them to sign Turner when Cleveland let him go but they really showed no interest, that I know of, and he went to Minny. Not really sure what happened up there in Minny but I know that offense has imploded. I think some of that is because Norv left.
November 26, 2016 at 2:15 pm #59558InvaderRamModeratornorv turner would be interesting. that would definitely give me good feelings.
November 26, 2016 at 2:31 pm #59559znModeratorNot really sure what happened up there in Minny but I know that offense has imploded. I think some of that is because Norv left.
That’s simple. The OL fell completely apart because of injuries, like “Rams OL injuries in a bad year” level fell apart, and they lost Peterson.
Turner left because he wanted to maintain a downfield passing game even with the extensive OL injuries and even with the running game diminished without Peterson (with Peterson you could at least have credible play action). Zimmer wanted an offense that wouldn’t expose the qb that way, given the OL wreckage and the drop-off in the running game. So Turner just got out of the way.
In fact, given what happened to the OL, there’s a good chance if Turner had stayed, it would have been worse.
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November 26, 2016 at 2:59 pm #59560
Eternal RamnationParticipantThe vikes wanted Turner to stay on but Shurmur to call plays. Norv said nope see ya.If you watched Thurs. you saw the same dink and dunk play calling that drove some of us nuts when Shurmur was here. Bradford started 16 games that season and has not since.
November 26, 2016 at 3:41 pm #59562znModeratorThe vikes wanted Turner to stay on but Shurmur to call plays. Norv said nope see ya.If you watched Thurs. you saw the same dink and dunk play calling that drove some of us nuts when Shurmur was here. Bradford started 16 games that season and has not since.
They’re throwing short quick passes because the OL, as injured as it is, along with being 32nd in rushing, cannot protect the qb unless they do.
It’s been a delicate balance for the Vikings on offense. Shurmur went to the short passing game to help protect Bradford behind an injury-riddled offensive line and to make up for a shaky running game.
Bradford wasn’t sacked and Zimmer said he got hit just three times, which was “pretty good.’’ But Bradford rarely threw downfield.
November 26, 2016 at 4:08 pm #59564sanbaggerParticipantBoy…that sounds eerily familiar.
November 26, 2016 at 4:27 pm #59567znModeratorBoy…that sounds eerily familiar.
Yeah I already said it, but…
…there’s one thing I hope Goff has more of than Bradford, which is, namely, luck.
…
November 26, 2016 at 4:37 pm #59570
nittany ramModeratorThe vikes wanted Turner to stay on but Shurmur to call plays. Norv said nope see ya.If you watched Thurs. you saw the same dink and dunk play calling that drove some of us nuts when Shurmur was here. Bradford started 16 games that season and has not since.
They’re throwing short quick passes because the OL, as injured as it is, along with being 32nd in rushing, cannot protect the qb unless they do.
It’s been a delicate balance for the Vikings on offense. Shurmur went to the short passing game to help protect Bradford behind an injury-riddled offensive line and to make up for a shaky running game.
Bradford wasn’t sacked and Zimmer said he got hit just three times, which was “pretty good.’’ But Bradford rarely threw downfield.
Yeah, that whole Turner situation was odd. I can understand why Turner, an accomplished and respected OC, didn’t like having play calling responsibilities taken away from him. Apparently he didn’t agree with Zimmer that the play calling had to be adjusted. But it seems self evident to me that it would have to be given an offense missing its best weapon, with a depleted o-line and an immobile QB with an injury history.
I’ve always been a Turner fan but that unwillingness to adjust seems strange to me. There must be more to it than that.
November 26, 2016 at 4:55 pm #59572sanbaggerParticipantYeah, that whole Turner situation was odd. I can understand why Turner, an accomplished and respected OC, didn’t like having play calling responsibilities taken away from him. Apparently he didn’t agree with Zimmer that the play calling had to be adjusted. But it seems self evident to me that it would have to be given an offense missing its best weapon, with a depleted o-line and an immobile QB with an injury history.
I’ve always been a Turner fan but that unwillingness to adjust seems strange to me. There must be more to it than that
I agree…seems like there is something else goin on that we aren’t privy to. All good OC’s adjust their gameplan and scheme based on who is available and their strengths and weaknesses.
I always thought Norv would be a good addition and he also favors Fishers way of believing in a balanced offense…but he likes to go downfield a bit more than a couple of throws a game….and hopefully that intermediate toss is gonna be a strength of Goff as advertised.
November 26, 2016 at 5:04 pm #59573nittany ramModeratorYeah, that whole Turner situation was odd. I can understand why Turner, an accomplished and respected OC, didn’t like having play calling responsibilities taken away from him. Apparently he didn’t agree with Zimmer that the play calling had to be adjusted. But it seems self evident to me that it would have to be given an offense missing its best weapon, with a depleted o-line and an immobile QB with an injury history.
I’ve always been a Turner fan but that unwillingness to adjust seems strange to me. There must be more to it than that
I agree…seems like there is something else goin on that we aren’t privy to. All good OC’s adjust their gameplan and scheme based on who is available and their strengths and weaknesses.
I always thought Norv would be a good addition and he also favors Fishers way of believing in a balanced offense…but he likes to go downfield a bit more than a couple of throws a game….and hopefully that intermediate toss is gonna be a strength of Goff as advertised.
Yeah, despite what happened in Minn I’d love to have Norv as the Rams’ OC. He has coordinated many good offenses including that Rams offense of the mid to late 80s with Everett, Ellard, Flipper, etc,
November 26, 2016 at 5:06 pm #59574znModeratorI agree…seems like there is something else goin on that we aren’t privy to. All good OC’s adjust their gameplan and scheme based on who is available and their strengths and weaknesses.
Turner didn’t agree with how Zimmer on how to do that. So, he just walked. That;s the story.
November 26, 2016 at 5:17 pm #59575sanbaggerParticipantTurner didn’t agree with how Zimmer on how to do that. So, he just walked. That;s the story.
I’m not conspiracy theory believer…but this just sounds strange to me. I’m sure the HC and OC have disagreements about strategy all the time..Hell, we on this board have it all figured out and still we find time to not agree on some things.
I’m not saying what you reported is inaccurate, I just find it a little confusing.
What I am pretty sure about is Boras has underwhelmed as an OC and if Fisher is gonna get another shot at redemption a change is in order there.
November 26, 2016 at 5:22 pm #59576nittany ramModeratorYeah, despite what happened in Minn I’d love to have Norv as the Rams’ OC. He has coordinated many good offenses including that Rams offense of the mid to late 80s with Everett, Ellard, Flipper, etc,
Actually Ernie Zampese was the OC. Turner was the WR coach and offensive assistant.
November 26, 2016 at 5:35 pm #59577znModeratorTurner didn’t agree with how Zimmer on how to do that. So, he just walked. That;s the story.
I’m not conspiracy theory believer…but this just sounds strange to me. I’m sure the HC and OC have disagreements about strategy all the time..Hell, we on this board have it all figured out and still we find time to not agree on some things.
I’m not saying what you reported is inaccurate, I just find it a little confusing.
What I am pretty sure about is Boras has underwhelmed as an OC and if Fisher is gonna get another shot at redemption a change is in order there.
Doesn’t sound the least bit strange to me. Not sure why it does to you. Turner flat out openly said he and Zimmer disagreed on the solutions to the line issues and that he realized he would just be in the way of Zimmer doing it the way he wanted. That’s Turner’s own direct words. I have no reason to doubt him.
I think everyone cuts Boras more slack once Goff is up to speed and the offense is executing.
November 27, 2016 at 5:02 am #59588Eternal RamnationParticipantActually the story started a lot earlier locally, this wasn’t nearly as sudden or unexpected as the national press has reported. Norv is a classy guy , Zimmer has been a whiny finger pointer in the past. Shurmur pushed to bring in Bradford and because of his familiarity with Bradford called the plays the first two games which was before the OL lost some players, they were thin but now they’re playing people off the street. Here’s an article from January.
Pat Shurmur hire reflects Vikings’ changing dynamics on offense
Jan 24, 2016
Ben Goessling
ESPN Staff WriterMINNEAPOLIS — After the Minnesota Vikings hired Pat Shurmur — a former head coach who has five years of experience as an offensive coordinator — on Saturday night, locking him up before he could talk to the Los Angeles Rams about a possible job as a passing coordinator, coach Mike Zimmer had compiled an offensive staff with three former NFL head coaches and coordinators on it.
And while a league source said Shurmur’s job title has yet to be finalized, it’s probably safe to assume this: Shurmur wasn’t going to end his job search after one stop had Zimmer not pitched him on a plan big enough to get him to put down roots in Minnesota.
http://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/17882/pat-shurmur-hire-reflects-vikings-changing-dynamics-on-offenseNovember 27, 2016 at 10:03 am #59599znModeratorActually the story started a lot earlier locally, this wasn’t nearly as sudden or unexpected as the national press has reported. Norv is a classy guy , Zimmer has been a whiny finger pointer in the past. Shurmur pushed to bring in Bradford and because of his familiarity with Bradford called the plays the first two games which was before the OL lost some players, they were thin but now they’re playing people off the street. Here’s an article from January.
Pat Shurmur hire reflects Vikings’ changing dynamics on offense
Jan 24, 2016
Ben Goessling
ESPN Staff WriterMINNEAPOLIS — After the Minnesota Vikings hired Pat Shurmur — a former head coach who has five years of experience as an offensive coordinator — on Saturday night, locking him up before he could talk to the Los Angeles Rams about a possible job as a passing coordinator, coach Mike Zimmer had compiled an offensive staff with three former NFL head coaches and coordinators on it.
And while a league source said Shurmur’s job title has yet to be finalized, it’s probably safe to assume this: Shurmur wasn’t going to end his job search after one stop had Zimmer not pitched him on a plan big enough to get him to put down roots in Minnesota.
http://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/17882/pat-shurmur-hire-reflects-vikings-changing-dynamics-on-offenseOkay. Though that particular piece sounds like a lot of speculation. What’s clear to me is that they had to react to both losing Peterson and much of the starting OL. That’s really the context of this discussion. Saying that, to me, was a clearer thing than just “Bradford dinked and dunked.” The situation is, their OL is a wreck. Any differences between Turner (to whom I have no loyalty) and Zimmer (to whom I have no loyalty) stems from that, it seems to me.
November 27, 2016 at 11:16 am #59615sanbaggerParticipantActually the story started a lot earlier locally, this wasn’t nearly as sudden or unexpected as the national press has reported. Norv is a classy guy , Zimmer has been a whiny finger pointer in the past. Shurmur pushed to bring in Bradford and because of his familiarity with Bradford called the plays the first two games which was before the OL lost some players, they were thin but now they’re playing people off the street. Here’s an article from January.
Pat Shurmur hire reflects Vikings’ changing dynamics on offense
Jan 24, 2016
Ben Goessling
ESPN Staff WriterMINNEAPOLIS — After the Minnesota Vikings hired Pat Shurmur — a former head coach who has five years of experience as an offensive coordinator — on Saturday night, locking him up before he could talk to the Los Angeles Rams about a possible job as a passing coordinator, coach Mike Zimmer had compiled an offensive staff with three former NFL head coaches and coordinators on it.
And while a league source said Shurmur’s job title has yet to be finalized, it’s probably safe to assume this: Shurmur wasn’t going to end his job search after one stop had Zimmer not pitched him on a plan big enough to get him to put down roots in Minnesota.
http://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/17882/pat-shurmur-hire-reflects-vikings-changing-dynamics-on-offenseOkay. Though that particular piece sounds like a lot of speculation. What’s clear to me is that they had to react to both losing Peterson and much of the starting OL. That’s really the context of this discussion. Saying that, to me, was a clearer thing than just “Bradford dinked and dunked.” The situation is, their OL is a wreck. Any differences between Turner (to whom I have no loyalty) and Zimmer (to whom I have no loyalty) stems from that, it seems to me.
That does sound like a lot of speculation. However, the move for Bradford and what they gave up for him then the sudden walkaway by Turner starts to add a little credence to the story.
If I’m a well respected OC and been doing this for a long time and then the HC goes and brings in another OC and says publicly he doesn’t know what title he has but he’ll figure it out…sends a shot over my bow I would think.
November 27, 2016 at 11:30 am #59616nittany ramModeratorThat does sound like a lot of speculation. However, the move for Bradford and what they gave up for him then the sudden walkaway by Turner starts to add a little credence to the story.
If I’m a well respected OC and been doing this for a long time and then the HC goes and brings in another OC and says publicly he doesn’t know what title he has but he’ll figure it out…sends a shot over my bow I would think.
Yeah, I agree. Regardless I hope the Rams hire Turner this offseason.
November 27, 2016 at 6:23 pm #59656Eternal RamnationParticipantOkay. Though that particular piece sounds like a lot of speculation. What’s clear to me is that they had to react to both losing Peterson and much of the starting OL. That’s really the context of this discussion. Saying that, to me, was a clearer thing than just “Bradford dinked and dunked.” The situation is, their OL is a wreck. Any differences between Turner (to whom I have no loyalty) and Zimmer (to whom I have no loyalty) stems from that, it seems to me.
Yes it is speculation I only included it because it predates any of those injuries. We are in agreement on the dink and dunk adjustment. If I’m in Turner’s shoes I would leave as well. To me it looks like they would blame him for the offense and push him out at the end of the season so why stay? Some of that might be my personal feelings toward Zimmer, I just don’t like him for some unknown non football related reason .
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