PFF – Oline rankings…..it aint good

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  • #15925
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/01/08/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings/

    (Last year’s rankings are in parenthesis)

    32. Miami Dolphins (21st)

    Pass Blocking Ranking: 32nd, Run Blocking Ranking: 31st, Penalties Ranking: 29th

    Stud: When Branden Albert went down things did not go well. He was in All-Pro contention before the injury struck and it was a huge blow to lose him.

    Dud: In preseason Dallas Thomas (-32.7) struggled at guard. So naturally, being forced to start at right tackle did not go well as he was overmatched and routinely beaten.

    Breakdown: Just horrible. The 210 combined sacks, hits and hurries they allowed were most in the league and they weren’t much better in the run game. The musical chairs that saw Mike Pouncey to guard and Ja’Waun James to left tackle had a detrimental effect and it was brutal to watch them. It’s a young group that needs to play better.

    31. St Louis Rams (13th)

    Pass Blocking Ranking: 30th, Run Blocking Ranking: 28th, Penalties Ranking: 28th

    Stud: It doesn’t feel right to crown any player with a stud, with every lineman earning a negative grade. Rodger Saffold was the best of a bad bunch despite a shoulder injury.

    Dud: It might be the end of the road for Scott Wells who was terrible in pass protection. You don’t see centers give up that much pressure that often.

    Breakdown: Yuck. Given the investments the team has made this was something of a stunner. Jake Long went down, after a strong start the play of Joseph Barksdale fell off a cliff and Davin Joseph played exactly as you’d expect him to (not well). Then there was Greg Robinson who looked lost as the line tried to find a role for him. Will he be better in 2015 now the team has committed to him at left tackle?

    30. Buffalo Bills (22nd)

    Pass Blocking Ranking: 23rd, Run Blocking Ranking: 32nd, Penalties Ranking: 4th

    Stud: Not his best season but still better than his teammates managed. Cordy Glenn (+6.5) continues to be a reliable if hardly imposing left tackle.

    Dud: Two guys played every snap and while Seantrel Henderson finished with the lower grade, he’s an undrafted free agent. The same can’t be said of Erik Pears (-25.0) whose conversion to guard was a disaster.

    Breakdown: It did not go well. The investment in Chris Williams seemed odd and he struggled before landing on Injured Reserve. The right side of the line was a liability from Day 1 and while it did get better, it was not to a degree that inspires any confidence in this unit for 2015.

    29. San Diego Chargers (18th)….see link

    #15928
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Breakdown: Just horrible. The 210 combined sacks, hits and hurries they allowed were most in the league and they weren’t much better in the run game. The musical chairs that saw Mike Pouncey to guard and Ja’Waun James to left tackle had a detrimental effect and it was brutal to watch them. It’s a young group that needs to play better.

    Breakdown: Yuck. Given the investments the team has made this was something of a stunner. Jake Long went down, after a strong start the play of Joseph Barksdale fell off a cliff and Davin Joseph played exactly as you’d expect him to (not well). Then there was Greg Robinson who looked lost as the line tried to find a role for him. Will he be better in 2015 now the team has committed to him at left tackle?

    You know this disease is so rampant. What disease? The “just do not account for injuries on the OL” disease.

    When you have injuries that extensive no OL plays well…ever. For years and years I asked for examples of OLs that did play well with injuries that extensive and I have never had an example that stood up. That’s with dozens to probably of hundreds of posters reading the challenge across that time. No one can name examples that stand up.

    And look at PFF’s amateur tone and approach. It amounts to, yeah they were injured but they shoulda done better.

    Um…they can’t.

    In the Chiefs game, the Rams lost 3 players and it had an effect on 4 positions (5 really). Long went out, that moved Robinson. Saffold went out. Wells went out. Robinson moving brought in Joseph. At one point they had a line of Robinson Person Jones Joseph Barksdale. I have actually seen an analysis of that game that blamed Robinson Person Jones for not playing well. Well…what the hell. I don’t think any line in the NFL would play well if its left side consisted of a rookie LOT combined with 2 young depth guys who had never started before. The coherence isn’t going to be there, the timing isn’t going to be there, the communication isn’t going to be there, the translate practice reps to gametime speed isn’t going to be there. That’s like saying the people of Hiroshima shoulda done a better job standing up to just one american bomber.

    As the season went on, that;s a rookie OT plus a banged up Wells and Saffold plus Joseph who was not supposed to start plus Barksdale, who starts slipping immediately as of the Chiefs game (why? because OLs are UNITS and if most of it is struggling and isn’t the same the one remaining healthy starter is going to slip too.)

    Well…how many OLs have ever played well under those conditions? ESPECIALLY with the rookie LOT mixed in.

    Here’s my thing.

    If your line is battered up, just doing individual grades tells you NOTHING. When the coherence slips no one looks good.

    So why in the heck don’t people just SAY that.

    Grade, Rams OL, 2014. Once injuries set in and the Rams ended up playing a banged up Saffold and a rookie LOT, naturally, their performance suffered.

    I have to say, this is an old issue for me. Starting in 2007, when the Rams OL fell completely the hell apart (far worse than anything since and they’ve been bad in the injury dept. since). And in 2007 when you pointed out OL injuries some people would go “well good qbs elevate their OLs.” Yeah, okay, that’s true when the OL is relatively HEALTHY, but when you go past a certain point with OL injuries, all teams suffer, and no freaking qb is going to elevator it. I don;t think anyone is deep enough to cover up to three OL injuries, especially if they include the LOT. If it’s both the LOT and the OC, they’re dead meat.

    I just don’t get why some people don’t get that.

    #15936
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Breakdown: Just horrible. The 210 combined sacks, hits and hurries they allowed were most in the league and they weren’t much better in the run game. The musical chairs that saw Mike Pouncey to guard and Ja’Waun James to left tackle had a detrimental effect and it was brutal to watch them. It’s a young group that needs to play better.

    Breakdown: Yuck. Given the investments the team has made this was something of a stunner. Jake Long went down, after a strong start the play of Joseph Barksdale fell off a cliff and Davin Joseph played exactly as you’d expect him to (not well). Then there was Greg Robinson who looked lost as the line tried to find a role for him. Will he be better in 2015 now the team has committed to him at left tackle?

    You know this disease is so rampant. What disease? The “just do not account for injuries on the OL” disease.

    When you have injuries that extensive no OL plays well…ever. For years and years I asked for examples of OLs that did play well with injuries that extensive and I have never had an example that stood up. That’s with dozens to probably of hundreds of posters reading the challenge across that time. No one can name examples that stand up.

    And look at PFF’s amateur tone and approach. It amounts to, yeah they were injured but they shoulda done better.

    Um…they can’t.

    In the Chiefs game, the Rams lost 3 players and it had an effect on 4 positions (5 really). Long went out, that moved Robinson. Saffold went out. Wells went out. Robinson moving brought in Joseph. At one point they had a line of Robinson Person Jones Joseph Barksdale. I have actually seen an analysis of that game that blamed Robinson Person Jones for not playing well. Well…what the hell. I don’t think any line in the NFL would play well if its left side consisted of a rookie LOT combined with 2 young depth guys who had never started before. The coherence isn’t going to be there, the timing isn’t going to be there, the communication isn’t going to be there, the translate practice reps to gametime speed isn’t going to be there. That’s like saying the people of Hiroshima shoulda done a better job standing up to just one american bomber.

    As the season went on, that;s a rookie OT plus a banged up Wells and Saffold plus Joseph who was not supposed to start plus Barksdale, who starts slipping immediately as of the Chiefs game (why? because OLs are UNITS and if most of it is struggling and isn’t the same the one remaining healthy starter is going to slip too.)

    Well…how many OLs have ever played well under those conditions? ESPECIALLY with the rookie LOT mixed in.

    Here’s my thing.

    If your line is battered up, just doing individual grades tells you NOTHING. When the coherence slips no one looks good.

    So why in the heck don’t people just SAY that.

    Grade, Rams OL, 2014. Once injuries set in and the Rams ended up playing a banged up Saffold and a rookie LOT, naturally, their performance suffered.

    I have to say, this is an old issue for me. Starting in 2007, when the Rams OL fell completely the hell apart (far worse than anything since and they’ve been bad in the injury dept. since). And in 2007 when you pointed out OL injuries some people would go “well good qbs elevate their OLs.” Yeah, okay, that’s true when the OL is relatively HEALTHY, but when you go past a certain point with OL injuries, all teams suffer, and no freaking qb is going to elevator it. I don;t think anyone is deep enough to cover up to three OL injuries, especially if they include the LOT. If it’s both the LOT and the OC, they’re dead meat.

    I just don’t get why some people don’t get that.

    I dont disagree with a word you say about the Rams OLine
    but i still dont see what PFF can do except
    rank them 31st. I mean, i suppose they could
    go into more detail about each Oline and talk about WHY
    they were good or bad…but…ya know…deadlines and all.

    w
    v

    #15938
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    I dont disagree with a word you say about the Rams OLine
    but i still dont see what PFF can do except
    rank them 31st. I mean, i suppose they could
    go into more detail about each Oline and talk about WHY
    they were good or bad…but…ya know…deadlines and all.

    w
    v

    Look at the language. They act like they’re doing a pure line play assessment. No they’re not, they’re assessing a beat up line. So why not say, as I already suggested, something along the lines of naturally they were 31st they were beat up.

    Otherwise they just contribute to the OL injury blindness.

    Which frankly I think they share.

    #15943
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>wv wrote:</div>
    I dont disagree with a word you say about the Rams OLine
    but i still dont see what PFF can do except
    rank them 31st. I mean, i suppose they could
    go into more detail about each Oline and talk about WHY
    they were good or bad…but…ya know…deadlines and all.

    w
    v

    Look at the language. They act like they’re doing a pure line play assessment. No they’re not, they’re assessing a beat up line. So why not say, as I already suggested, something along the lines of naturally they were 31st they were beat up.

    Otherwise they just contribute to the OL injury blindness.

    Which frankly I think they share.

    Well, I have no problem with them ranking the Oline 31st.
    Lets just start there. Do you have a problem with them
    RANKING the Oline 31st ?

    w
    v

    #15945
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Well, I have no problem with them ranking the Oline 31st.
    Lets just start there. Do you have a problem with them
    RANKING the Oline 31st ?

    w
    v

    I didnt express a problem with their ranking. That wasn’t my issue. They wrote it as if it were all a matter of poor play. It wasn’t. Not across the board. It was poor play caused by an injury situation. I don;t know why they can’t just openly account for that. Because this kind of issue is an old one for me, I just notice it whenever it crops up.

    #15963
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I didnt express a problem with their ranking. That wasn’t my issue. They wrote it as if it were all a matter of poor play. It wasn’t. Not across the board. It was poor play caused by an injury situation. I don;t know why they can’t just openly account for that. Because this kind of issue is an old one for me, I just notice it whenever it crops up.

    Ok, then we are basically in agreement. The Ranking isnt an issue,
    but they dont go into accurate-details about the ‘why’
    of the situation.

    Though to be fair, its not always easy to know exactly
    what is going on with a player. Yes, Wells had the bad
    elbow, but maybe he’s got lots of nagging problems
    and maybe that is cause he’s just wearing down in general,
    etc, and so forth.

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #15968
    Avatar photoAgamemnon
    Participant

    The one armed man. 😉

    Agamemnon

    #15971
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Ok, then we are basically in agreement. The Ranking isnt an issue,
    but they dont go into accurate-details about the ‘why’
    of the situation.

    Oh man you are just ITCHING for a fight, hunh.

    Okay if that’s how it’s gonna be…bring it.

    w

    w

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