our own takes on this draft

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  • #150584
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    This draft may even be better than last year’s. I bet they get more starters from this draft than they even did last year.

    IMO:

    Verse and Fiske are at minimum solid picks that will fill a need. (What do you replace Aaron Donald with? A committee.) And having said that I bet they are both better than just “at a minimum, solid.” Verse is not the bendy slick pass-rusher type, he’s more of a car-crash pass-rusher type in the mold of Kevin Greene and JT Watts. And that’s fine because the Rams will be scheming in multiple different pass rushers. So for example you have Verse in the same front 7 as Turner, 2 completely different types.

    Blake Corum looks great and eases any worries about Kyren missing time. If anything he looks to be more elusive in the open field than Kyren (and I am a big KW fan so that’s not a knock on him).

    Kamren Kinchens sounds like one of the best safeties the Rams have drafted in years, and this regime is good at drafting safeties. He’s both a ballhawk and a screaming tackle rocket. I suspect this pick was just simply a case of going off the plan and taking him in spite of any needs (they don’t really need a safety). Too good to pass up. Best pure “blue chip” pick of the day.

    Tyler Davis is supposed to be a monster against the run. This Rams regime has a long good record of finding NTs low in the draft and it looks like this is another.

    Karty may be the one of the 2 best kickers the Rams ever actually drafted (most Rams kickers over the years have been free agents). I am thinking maybe better than Zuerlein.

    Whittington seems to be a keeper. In spite of some limitations, he still brings stuff to the field as a receiver (he was ranked really high in 2023 for broken tackles), is a smart team leader type, and looks to be qualified to play on every single special teams unit both as a blocker and tackler. You just root for a guy like that.

    The 2 back-up OL they took look solid and coachable and add needed depth. These are clearly Ryan Wendell type picks, and he may  be the best Rams OL coach since Houk from the 80s. Bruss, in contrast, was not a Ryan Wendell pick.

    As for Brennan Jackson, I don’t know. He looks like he could be a good one but I don’t have a feel for him as a player. As a person, he is a card carrying and flag waving representative of the “starting in 2023 McVay type player”– passionate, tough, physical, smart, a leader.

     

    #150586
    Avatar photocanadaram
    Participant

    It certainly presents as a smart and logical draft by the Rams. They filled multiple needs and seem to be  attempting to address immediate depth with an eye to the future. There wasn’t a moment where I thought why’d they pick that guy.  So I  have no complaints about any of the specific picks. I’m not sure if they found any future superstars, but they got a group of guys who seem to have incredible motors and attributes that will give them a chance to make meaningful contributions to the team. I don’t know if it was the plan or it’s  just how their board fell as the draft progressed, but obviously it was a defense heavy draft and I don’t have a problem with that.   That said, I am worried about the ILB position. Jones’ contract looms, Rozeboom is just a guy and the depth at the position is nonexistent.

    Some other thoughts:

    I am glad they added Corum. When Williams was out last year, the offense really sputtered.

    Later last year, day 3 pick Ochaun Mathis was given some opportunities to make a name for himself opposite Byron Young. Fellow day 3 pick Nick Hampton had less opportunities (I think). This year the Rams went edge early and then again on day 3 and also signed one more as a UDFA. I got the impression that they liked Mathis last year. Maybe it was just Morris that like him. Anyway, Morris is gone now. I apologize as I am not sure what point  I am trying to make here…I guess that I am already intrigued by the training camp competition at edge between Mathis, Hampton, Jackson and Goodlow.

    Glad they picked Karty. I grew tired of stressing about whether the Rams were going to get the extra point every time they scored last year.

     

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatar photocanadaram.
    #150590
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Well, i got nuthin.   I dunno nuthin about any of them.

    In general though, I dont get the feeling that the Rams have closed the gap tween them and the 49ers.    I mean SF drafted some solid talent too, and they did not lose Aaron Donald off their Dline.

    Cardinals definitely look better on paper, as do the Seahawks.

    As do the Bears, Vikings, Packers and Lions.

    So, i dunno.

    I think much depends on Mr Kupp.

     

    w

    v

    #150595
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    I dont get the feeling that the Rams have closed the gap tween them and the 49ers.

    That’s a separate issue though, right? And can they do that in just one draft?

    But division games are deceptive. Divisional opponents know each other and so often the field is more even. Last year, in their first game (game 2 of the season), with the regulars starting (as opposed to the one Wentz started), Rams lost by 7 in the 4th quarter. They were down by 7 with more than 7 minutes left and then lost by 7. A loss is a loss but that’s not being dominated. And that was before the 2023 rookies kicked in (except for Avila) and before McVay knew what he had in Kyren Williams and after stripping the defense of several key veteran starters in the off-season.

    It was with Donald, but then also it was a defense where opposing teams knew all you had to do was stop Donald. Back to the mantra–what do you replace Donald with? A committee. Well, is it a good committee? We don’t know yet.

    Anyway, all that aside, was it a good draft? Absolutely looks like it…at this stage. Quite possibly even better than the 2023 draft.

     

    #150600
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    wv wrote: I dont get the feeling that the Rams have closed the gap tween them and the 49ers.

     

    That’s a separate issue though, right? And can they do that in just one draft?

     

    yeah. i don’t know that they’ve closed the gap.

     

    yet.

     

    i do see a general trend in their off-season and it was to get more physical. and i’m pretty sure it’s a direct response to how the niners have handled them. they went grunt over finesse. from signing jackson to drafting verse and fiske. on that i think it was the right approach. i just don’t know if it’ll work.

     

    not in love with the verse pick. or the fiske pick… but i do like the thought of them playing together. i like the chemistry there. don’t know if it’ll work one level up in competition but i’ll be rooting for them.

     

    i like the corum pick and even see the potential in him being better even than kyren. i do want to acknowledge that the chances of that are not high. that was a pretty high bar set by kyren, but i do really like corum’s potential that much.

     

    kinchen looks good on paper, but who knows. i’ve read plenty of negative reports on him too so we’ll see.

     

    i’ll only comment on one more player. karty. glad they got him and hope he can fill the gaping hole that was the kicking game last year.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatar photoInvaderRam.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatar photoInvaderRam.
    #150607
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I dont get the feeling that the Rams have closed the gap tween them and the 49ers.

    That’s a separate issue though, right? And can they do that in just one draft? But division games are deceptive. Divisional opponents know each other and so often the field is more even. Last year, in their first game (game 2 of the season), with the regulars starting (as opposed to the one Wentz started), Rams lost by 7 in the 4th quarter. They were down by 7 with more than 7 minutes left and then lost by 7. A loss is a loss but that’s not being dominated. And that was before the 2023 rookies kicked in (except for Avila) and before McVay knew what he had in Kyren Williams and after stripping the defense of several key veteran starters in the off-season. It was with Donald, but then also it was a defense where opposing teams knew all you had to do was stop Donald. Back to the mantra–what do you replace Donald with? A committee. Well, is it a good committee? We don’t know yet. Anyway, all that aside, was it a good draft? Absolutely looks like it…at this stage. Quite possibly even better than the 2023 draft.

     

    Well, just speaking for me, I cant separate them.   But i understand they are separate things.   And yet, in wv-brain they are…separate-but-inseparable.   Is there a word for that?

    I mean, yes, the Rams have added some talent.  Physical, bullying, hard-nosed talent.  (Ie, Shannahan type players?)   But i still cant separate ‘that’ from the fact it looks to me like they still ‘lost ground’ to the 49ers and Cards.   Thats just how it looks to me, after the draft.   Added talent.  Lost ground.

    But who knows.  Just tentative thotlets.

    As long as Matt Stafford is healthy, I’m excited to see the Rams.    There used to be another player in that sentence.   Now, its just 36 yr-old Stafford.

     

    w

    v

    #150608
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    PS.   Last year i was intrigued by the draft evals on Puka.   This year its the Michigan RB.  He’s first round talent in my book.   I hope K.Willams dont get upset about the new situation.

     

    w

    v

    #150610
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    i’m still holding out hope donald pulls a brady and decides to come back…

     

    the thought of playing next to fiske and verse has to be running through his mind a little bit. a little bit.

    #150611
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    PS.   Last year i was intrigued by the draft evals on Puka.   This year its the Michigan RB.  He’s first round talent in my book.   I hope K.Willams dont get upset about the new situation.

    +1

    #150612
    Hram
    Participant

    I don’t think they lost ground, I think the draft kept them even for this year.

    from the draft reports it seems that most of the players weaknesses are things that are coachable.  Given that most of the player’s strengths is tenacity, my guess is cumulatively, they will take to coaching.

    I like the idea that they will platoon the Dline.

    provided the Oline was fixed in free agency, they should be pretty darn good.

    #150618
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    i’m still holding out hope donald pulls a brady and decides to come back… the thought of playing next to fiske and verse has to be running through his mind a little bit. a little bit.

    I have wondered that, too.   Wouldnt shock me if he showed up for the playoffs, if the Rams made it.

    w

    v

    #150620
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    This draft may even be better than last year’s.

     

    that’s a tall order.

     

    puka has a rookie season for the ages. oroy if not for stroud having his equally startling season but at qb of all positions.

     

    avila day one starter with upside.

     

    turner should have been in the discussion for droy.

     

    byron young has a solid season to build off. started 16 of 17 games.

     

    evans starting punter and kickoff guy.

     

    so not just four starters out of this draft. five if you include evans. you’d need one rookie to break records and another at least in contention for some kind of regular season award.

     

    so karty if he sticks at kicker is equal to evans.

     

    you’d need one of verse or fiske to break two defensive rookie records. corum to be in contention on the other side for offensive rookie of the year. or perhaps even kinchens breaking the rookie record for interception. and the other two having solid seasons as pretty much day one starters.

     

    i don’t see that happening.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatar photoInvaderRam.
    #150622
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    zn wrote: This draft may even be better than last year’s.

    that’s a tall order.

    I should have been more clear.

    I think this draft will provide more “hits,” ie. starters and top contributors.

    No one is going to surpass or equal Nacua’s rookie season.

    But I think that in the end when you count the hit percentage, the 2024 draft will provide more players.

    #150631
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    But I think that in the end when you count the hit percentage, the 2024 draft will provide more players.

     

    well if you’re looking at just hits and not the quality of hits and if you’re looking at percentages and not raw numbers then yes this draft class could surpass past year’s due to the rams having fourteen picks in 23 vs ten in 24. and the rams having a first round pick this year vs none in 23. they’d only need to hit on five to yield a higher percentage. i’d say the rams hit on 6 of the 14 players they drafted last year. if you don’t count allen, then it’s really only 5. so they would only need to hit on 4 this year. but the quality of picks this year is certainly higher due to having a first round pick.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatar photoInvaderRam.
    #150633
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    well if you’re looking at just hits and not the quality of hits

    No not doing that either, really. I said starter or significant contributor, which is quality. Either way quality is what I am talking about–when I discuss drafts, it is always what I talk about.

    And yeah Nacua is a big find, but then I also said there is just not going to be that many Nacua’s either in Rams drafts or in NFL drafts generally.

    But what I mean is that good starters and significant contributors from 2024 will outnumber those from 2023. Hitting on 5 is 50%. 50% drafts are rare. If it remains 5 from 2023, then that’s 36% (appx.) which is still good, and if you factor in getting Avila, Turner, and Nacua, then that’s a superb 36%. Anyway I wasn’t downplaying the 2023 draft, it was clearly a good one.  I just think it will be more than 5 from 2024. It could be 6 or 7. That is, if Whittington does what I think he will, which is become a valuable top special teamer active on several STs units (which I count as a significant contributor).

    To give you a sense by what I mean by hits, here’s my take on the 2022 draft.

    Hits are blue.
    Busts or we haven’t seen enough yet to judge, black.
    Big questions to answer/haven’t played consistently well enough to earn a starting role yet, red.

    Round 3, Pick 104: Logan Bruss, OG, Wisconsin
    Round 4, Pick 142: Decobie Durant, CB, South Carolina State
    Round 5, Pick 164: Kyren Williams, RB, Notre Dame
    Round 6, Pick 211: Quentin Lake, S, UCLA
    Round 6, Pick 212: Derion Kendrick, CB, Georgia
    Round 7, Pick 235: Daniel Hardy, LB, Montana State
    Round 7, Pick 253: Russ Yeast, S, Kansas State
    Round 7, Pick 261: AJ Arcuri, OT, Michigan State

     

     

     

    #150636
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Each pick was highly regarded and for a position of need.  No reaches.  Hard to find fault with it.

    #150637
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Each pick was highly regarded and for a position of need. No reaches. Hard to find fault with it.

    That’s the way I see it. No basketball players drafted to convert to TEs, or QBs into WRs.

    Dane Brugler, over at The Athletic, ranked all the drafts by teams, and he placed the Rams at 24 (and the 9ers at 25), fwiw, but I don’t find anything the Rams did (or didn’t do) to quibble with. They drafted for need, and all their picks “check out.” The only bit of a surprise to me is that they didn’t spend one of their top picks on a CB. They let Cooper DeJean slide by, but it’s impossible for me to find fault with that when they picked Fiske, who looks like a high-motor disruptor who “cares about football.” I’m kind of tickled by the pairing of him and Verse. I can see no head-scratchers in this draft which could turn out to be a highly productive one. They even got a kicker.

    #150652
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Each pick was highly regarded and for a position of need. No reaches. Hard to find fault with it.

    Dane Brugler, over at The Athletic, ranked all the drafts by teams, and he placed the Rams at 24 (and the 9ers at 25), fwiw, but I don’t find anything the Rams did (or didn’t do) to quibble with. They drafted for need, and all their picks “check out.”

    Well, that’s just cuckoo.

    This was a great draft, from both a need and value standpoint.

    AD’s retirement was a blow, but IF the players they selected are as good as advertised, then the Rams did as much as possible to mitigate that loss.  Include the FA signings, and I think this is a better team overall, even without AD.

     

     

     

    #150653
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    No not doing that either, really. I said starter or significant contributor, which is quality. Either way quality is what I am talking about–when I discuss drafts, it is always what I talk about.

     

    slight disagreement. a hit implies starter or contributor. quality of the hit by my definition is a bit different. like nacua would have been offensive rookie of the year in any other rookie class. turner should have been defensive rookie of the year. so there’s a difference between having a starter and having a guy just set the pace for other rookies.

     

    regardless you’re saying 6-7 hits. that’s a 60-70% hit rate. as a rams fan sure i’ll take that. it’s just astronomical the chances of that happening.

    #150654
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    you’re saying 6-7 hits. that’s a 60-70% hit rate. as a rams fan sure i’ll take that. it’s just astronomical the chances of that happening.

    Maybe up to 6 or 7 but yeah that would be very rare if it happened.

    #150666
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    i’m still holding out hope donald pulls a brady and decides to come back… the thought of playing next to fiske and verse has to be running through his mind a little bit. a little bit.

    I have wondered that, too. Wouldnt shock me if he showed up for the playoffs, if the Rams made it. w v

    Yeah, I’m gonna say “Nah” to that.

    I nursed that hope a little back when I was in one of the 5 stages of grief: what is it? Denial?

    Here’s the thing: Aaron Donald knows as well as we do that the Rams are in the hunt this season. If he was driven by the allure of a second ring, he wouldn’t have retired in the first place. He has to know that the table is set for a legit run this season. The thing about Donald, the thing that separates him from all the other greats, is that he really was truly driven internally. Not that he didn’t care about about the DPOY awards, the Super Bowl, and all the externals. But I think that – at his core – he was simply driven to be the absolute best he could personally be. And he did it. For 10 years.

    He has the knowledge that he did his best, that he was one of the best to ever do it, and he has awards, a championship, $100 million, and a couple of cute kids. And it’s time to move on.

     

    #150706
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    i have no take….  other than Les Snead has a consistent history of doing a great job with draft picks…

    They drafted a kicker from Stanford, thus he’s probably a smart kid and he’s 6’2″

    BTW, did you catch McVay’s phone call to the newly drafted FG kicker? “hopefully you’re ready to kick a lot of extra points” …….. fuck this FG shit, we’re scoring TDs!

     

    kicking game cost the Rams in early games last season 75% FG% doesn’t cut it …….and 60% from 40-49 yards is not good.

    6 feet 2, 207 pounds, Stanford, Round 7, Pick 209

    Notable: Karty, who was selected All-Pacific-12 Conference the last two seasons, is the first kicker drafted by the Rams since they took Sam Sloman in the seventh round in 2020.

    Last season: Karty made 23 of 27 field-goal attempts and all 21 extra-point attempts.

    Why the Rams drafted him: The Rams desperately needed a reliable kicker after the debacle that was the 2023 season. They started it with veteran Brett Maher and then turned to rookie Lucas Havrisik before returning to Maher. The Rams no doubt are hoping Karty can become an effective weapon the way Greg Zuerlein was after being drafted in 2012.

    #150716
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    The more I read and hear about this draft and look into it, the more I am convinced–at this admittedly very early point–that this was one of the Rams best drafts ever, and certain the best overall in the McVay era.

    IR and I debated that (and I respect his disagreement, what I am saying is in fact that something unusual and rare happened with this draft, and that’s kind of going out on a limb.) I tried to make it clear that I am saying that because of the number of very viable hits they could have in this draft, that is future starters who will be considered at least good (and not guys like Reeder who start because there’s no one else). Also very significant overall contributors, like Whittington, who is not just a 4th WR type, but also a potential star on several special team units.

    They may not have anyone who will reach the status of Nacua. But they could very well have up to 6 or 7 genuine hits. I don’t think any one of them will reach Nacua-level superstar status, but that will be very good players–real hits–such as what the Ram have in Jones or Avila.

    A lot of this depends on how far Verse develops. I see him not as a magic, bendy pass rusher like you got with Robert Quinn, Von Miller, or that type. He’s more of a smasher and brawler in the mold of Kevin Greene or JT Watt. In fact if you compare their profiles, Verse has a lot of what makes Watt effective, and if anything Verse may be a bit more physically gifted than Watt (faster and maybe stronger). Watt sets the recent standard to measure Verse by. He had 10 sacks as a rookie and has averaged 13-14 sacks a year.

    Anway that aside, a public service message. Be sure and use the guide to draft threads I provided (here: guide to 2024 draft threads). There are so far 13 different threads dedicated to this draft and it’s a kind of minor little chore to find the one you want just by scrolling through the page. It’s far easier to use the links I put in the “guide.” I keep finding different material on different draft picks I want to post here and when I do I don’t even bother to scroll down looking for the right thread, instead I go straight to the links in the guide.

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