Obama's willful avoidance of the Constitution

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  • #63998
    NewMexicoRam
    Participant

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/19/10-ways-obama-violated-constitution-presidency/

    Hopefully, our new President will do better.

    • This topic was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by NewMexicoRam.
    #64002
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Hopefully, our new President will do better.

    He’s already the worst president of my entire lifetime, and I have lived through some doozies.

    You will never get any support from me when it comes to trying to paint Trump in a good light. My response will always be the same. I promise.

    Other issues? Sports to anything? I will be a much more pleasant conversationalist.

    #64008
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/19/10-ways-obama-violated-constitution-presidency/

    Hopefully, our new President will do better.

    Paul Ryan, in his recent townhall chat, talked about how wrong it was for Obama to go around Congress with his Executive Orders. He said they were un-Constitutional. Actually, no, they aren’t. And we never heard a peep from Ryan while Bush issued far more of those orders than Obama.

    And, of course, Trump, on his first day in office, just issued his own executive orders, and Paul Ryan can be seen behind him as he does this. He also had the Climate Change page from the whitehouse.gov site removed, as well as the page for LBGT issues.

    It’s all too clear what Ryan really meant: It’s okay for Republicans to issue Executive orders. But Democrats can’t do so without this being against the Constitution.

    Hypocrisy and cherry-picking on steroids.

    #64012
    NewMexicoRam
    Participant

    Hopefully, our new President will do better.

    He’s already the worst president of my entire lifetime, and I have lived through some doozies.

    You will never get any support from me when it comes to trying to paint Trump in a good light. My response will always be the same. I promise.

    Other issues? Sports to anything? I will be a much more pleasant conversationalist.

    _________________________________________________

    Interesting. One day?
    Anyway, I think conversation and disagreement can still be pleasant. Or maybe at least not hateful.
    And I think Obama is the worst president we have ever had. Which may be why Democrats lost so many governorships, state legislatures, House and Senate seat over the course of his terms. For Trump to had received so many votes, Obama had to have been leaving a bad taste in many voters’ mouths. That doesn’t even get into Hillary’s problems.
    Time will tell.

    #64014
    NewMexicoRam
    Participant

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/19/10-ways-obama-violated-constitution-presidency/

    Hopefully, our new President will do better.

    Paul Ryan, in his recent townhall chat, talked about how wrong it was for Obama to go around Congress with his Executive Orders. He said they were un-Constitutional. Actually, no, they aren’t. And we never heard a peep from Ryan while Bush issued far more of those orders than Obama.

    And, of course, Trump, on his first day in office, just issued his own executive orders, and Paul Ryan can be seen behind him as he does this. He also had the Climate Change page from the whitehouse.gov site removed, as well as the page for LBGT issues.

    It’s all too clear what Ryan really meant: It’s okay for Republicans to issue Executive orders. But Democrats can’t do so without this being against the Constitution.

    Hypocrisy and cherry-picking on steroids.

    _________________________________________________

    I don’t think the GOP was against executive orders. Your comments point that out.
    They are against orders that try to get around current law and Constitutional mandates.
    Like the article points out.

    #64017
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/19/10-ways-obama-violated-constitution-presidency/

    Hopefully, our new President will do better.

    Paul Ryan, in his recent townhall chat, talked about how wrong it was for Obama to go around Congress with his Executive Orders. He said they were un-Constitutional. Actually, no, they aren’t. And we never heard a peep from Ryan while Bush issued far more of those orders than Obama.

    And, of course, Trump, on his first day in office, just issued his own executive orders, and Paul Ryan can be seen behind him as he does this. He also had the Climate Change page from the whitehouse.gov site removed, as well as the page for LBGT issues.

    It’s all too clear what Ryan really meant: It’s okay for Republicans to issue Executive orders. But Democrats can’t do so without this being against the Constitution.

    Hypocrisy and cherry-picking on steroids.

    _________________________________________________

    I don’t think the GOP was against executive orders. Your comments point that out.
    They are against orders that try to get around current law and Constitutional mandates.
    Like the article points out.

    The article makes assertions. It’s an opinion piece. For example, it claims the ACA and Dodd-Frank go against the Constitution. There’s no proof of that, and none presented in the article.

    The writer also makes false use of things Obama said, offering no evidence of any follow through after those words. Without that follow through, it’s absurd to cite it as evidence of “the most lawless administration in American history,” which is also just a partisan opinion, without any basis in fact.

    (Tackling just a few of his other errors:)

    1. The Chrysler bailout as example is nonsense as well. Were it not for the bailout, those creditors wouldn’t have received a penny. There is nothing un-Constitutional about the action, and the author lies when he said unions made out well in the bargain. Unions took a huge hit, lost thousands of jobs, made deep concessions when it came to wages and benefits as well. What the author should have said, if he were being at all honest, is that Obama steered most of the bailout toward the very same people traditionally protected by the GOP and the right: the 1%. Obama just showed why it’s ridiculous to say he governed from “the left.”

    3. More nonsense. The IRS scrutinized all groups, left, center or right, that applied for tax exemptions as a 501C. And after that scrutiny, granted all of them that status, despite the fact that the law says they shouldn’t. The law states that these groups must be exclusively involved in social welfare pursuits, and no political group can accurately claim that. The right, as usual, whipped up its followers into a frenzy by cherry-picking what the IRS did. They didn’t look at their pursuit of left-leaning groups, or centrist, and pretended it was only the right. More lies by the author.

    4. Recess appointments are legal under the Constitution, and all presidents have made them. The author is not telling the truth. From Wiki:

    Recess appointments are authorized by Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution, which states:

    The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

    6. More nonsense. The author appears to be siding with those who commit sexual assault on campus, and against their victims. He’s also just voicing the usual right-wing line that it’s an assault on free speech.

    7, 8 and 10. The author is arguing against protecting public health, which is par for the course for the Koch brothers-owned CATO institute.

    9. Net Neutrality. See Commerce Clause, the Equal Protection Clause, the Necessary and Proper Clause and the General Welfare Clause. These four clauses can also be applied to EPA rulings.

    ___

    The problem with using right-wing Op Eds to demonstrate the failings of Obama and the Dems is that they invariably distort the truth, falsify or just make up stuff that never happened. And their agenda is all in the service of the super-rich, against the poor, the marginalized, the outcast. And right-wing media is invariably funded by billionaires for that purpose.

    To me, the best and most accurate criticisms of Obama and the Dems come from their left. And since they’re a center-right party, for all intents and purposes, that covers a lot of ground.

    #64018
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    I’m no fan of Obama but he isn’t alone in trying to circumvent the Constitution. Most presidents have tried and many have succeeded in violating it in some manner.

    Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. Free speech was suppressed during WWI and the Japanese were interred in camps against their will in WW II. McCarthyism, wire-tapping Vietnam War protesters are more examples. Dubya has a litany of offenses.

    Trump has been president for a day and he is already in violation of the Constitution’s emoluments clause because he’s continuing to accept payments from foreign governments.

    Every president swears an oath to defend the Constitution (until it becomes an inconvenience).

    #64019
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Considering that Trump is in violation of his GSA lease… on day one…

    That he is in violation of the Emoluments clause of the Constitution…on day one…

    Wait…I’m gonna stop there. This list could get long, but any incoming President that’s grossly and belligerently in violation of the Constitution?

    See, that’s why it’s so hard to have a conversation…because there’s an inherent hypocrisy. Most of the lefties here ALSO slammed Hillary Clinton for things like the Clinton Global Initiative’s Pay to Play access model (and surprise, surprise…with her not being President or in Congress or Secretary of State… it’s closing), so there wasn’t that Democratic hypocrisy when it comes to criticizing Trump.

    But…in one breath we hear from conservative voices NOTHING about Constitutional violations when it comes to Trump…BUT..the Constitution will become SACROSANCT when it comes to appoint a Supreme Court Justice.

    It’s pure hypocrisy. It’s cafeteria Constitutional observance and there’s no integrity in it.

    So…no. There’s absolutely not going to be any listening to “Obama was the worst” horseshit… cuz that’s what it is.

    Andrew Jackson openly defied Congress. Clinton was impeached and Nixon left office before being thrown out due to clear high crimes. Trump is currently in violation of the Emoluments clause and in violation of his GSA lease on his Trump Washington Hotel…and that’s just for starters.

    Principle wouldn’t ignore the gross violations.

    Partisanship would misdirect to Obama…Hillary…etc.

    But the principle still stands. And let’s be clear.

    Donald J. Trump is in violation of the US Constitution.

    Period. Doesn’t matter what you or anyone says about past presidents. Now… based on principle, are we going to get a statement about how the Oath of Office matters?

    I suppose there’s room for conversation if principle is paramount, but beyond that? Not really.

    Cuz, honestly? After $5 BILLION dollars of free press and the saturation to excuses for Trump to the point of being inculcated by them… I’m done and he’s been in office for one day.

    I’ve been banging the drum for principle as long as these guys know me.

    What Trump is doing with his businesses NOW, specifically his hotel businesses is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. As in actually unconstitutional, not bogus unconstitutional that gets bandied about in careless political discourse.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #64024
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    And we never heard a peep from Ryan while Bush issued far more of those orders than Obama.

    And that’s how these things always go.

    .

    #64032
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/19/10-ways-obama-violated-constitution-presidency/

    Hopefully, our new President will do better.

    I keep saying that Obama is one of the greatest Presidents we ever had. We can voice our different opinions.

    #64049
    NewMexicoRam
    Participant

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/19/10-ways-obama-violated-constitution-presidency/

    Hopefully, our new President will do better.

    Paul Ryan, in his recent townhall chat, talked about how wrong it was for Obama to go around Congress with his Executive Orders. He said they were un-Constitutional. Actually, no, they aren’t. And we never heard a peep from Ryan while Bush issued far more of those orders than Obama.

    And, of course, Trump, on his first day in office, just issued his own executive orders, and Paul Ryan can be seen behind him as he does this. He also had the Climate Change page from the whitehouse.gov site removed, as well as the page for LBGT issues.

    It’s all too clear what Ryan really meant: It’s okay for Republicans to issue Executive orders. But Democrats can’t do so without this being against the Constitution.

    Hypocrisy and cherry-picking on steroids.

    _________________________________________________

    I don’t think the GOP was against executive orders. Your comments point that out.
    They are against orders that try to get around current law and Constitutional mandates.
    Like the article points out.

    The article makes assertions. It’s an opinion piece. For example, it claims the ACA and Dodd-Frank go against the Constitution. There’s no proof of that, and none presented in the article.

    The writer also makes false use of things Obama said, offering no evidence of any follow through after those words. Without that follow through, it’s absurd to cite it as evidence of “the most lawless administration in American history,” which is also just a partisan opinion, without any basis in fact.

    (Tackling just a few of his other errors:)

    1. The Chrysler bailout as example is nonsense as well. Were it not for the bailout, those creditors wouldn’t have received a penny. There is nothing un-Constitutional about the action, and the author lies when he said unions made out well in the bargain. Unions took a huge hit, lost thousands of jobs, made deep concessions when it came to wages and benefits as well. What the author should have said, if he were being at all honest, is that Obama steered most of the bailout toward the very same people traditionally protected by the GOP and the right: the 1%. Obama just showed why it’s ridiculous to say he governed from “the left.”

    3. More nonsense. The IRS scrutinized all groups, left, center or right, that applied for tax exemptions as a 501C. And after that scrutiny, granted all of them that status, despite the fact that the law says they shouldn’t. The law states that these groups must be exclusively involved in social welfare pursuits, and no political group can accurately claim that. The right, as usual, whipped up its followers into a frenzy by cherry-picking what the IRS did. They didn’t look at their pursuit of left-leaning groups, or centrist, and pretended it was only the right. More lies by the author.

    4. Recess appointments are legal under the Constitution, and all presidents have made them. The author is not telling the truth. From Wiki:

    Recess appointments are authorized by Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution, which states:

    The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

    6. More nonsense. The author appears to be siding with those who commit sexual assault on campus, and against their victims. He’s also just voicing the usual right-wing line that it’s an assault on free speech.

    7, 8 and 10. The author is arguing against protecting public health, which is par for the course for the Koch brothers-owned CATO institute.

    9. Net Neutrality. See Commerce Clause, the Equal Protection Clause, the Necessary and Proper Clause and the General Welfare Clause. These four clauses can also be applied to EPA rulings.

    ___

    The problem with using right-wing Op Eds to demonstrate the failings of Obama and the Dems is that they invariably distort the truth, falsify or just make up stuff that never happened. And their agenda is all in the service of the super-rich, against the poor, the marginalized, the outcast. And right-wing media is invariably funded by billionaires for that purpose.

    To me, the best and most accurate criticisms of Obama and the Dems come from their left. And since they’re a center-right party, for all intents and purposes, that covers a lot of ground.

    _____________________________

    The most accurate descriptions come from the Left?
    Wow. Nothing more to say.

    #64050
    NewMexicoRam
    Participant

    And we never heard a peep from Ryan while Bush issued far more of those orders than Obama.

    And that’s how these things always go.

    .

    ____________________________________

    Again, its not the fact that the executive issues executive orders.
    That’s a practice that has been accepted for the history of the country. The executive has every right to manage the executive branch.
    The fact that Obama used his executive orders to overstep the Constitutional boundaries (which the article points out the courts ruled more against Obama on these issues than for him) and used it to essentially create new law, or even change the law, is where the disagreement resides.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by NewMexicoRam.
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