Obama warns democrats about moving too far to the left

Those right centrist types always say that kinda stuff.

I’m guessing this same frustration is shared by all leftists.

The Dems claim a need to win over the working class and the middle of the country. They acknowledge those people are hurting, economically. Their answer is, to run centrists or conservadems.

Thing is, centrists offer nothing for the poor, the working class, or the middle. They want to maintain the status quo. Conservadems offer less than nothing. They come close to Republicans who actually, aggressively hurt the poor, the working class and the middle.

The only part of the political spectrum offering any improvements in quality of life, and a reduction in cost of living, is “the left.” And the further left you go, the bigger and bolder the policies and their effects.

How does it make sense to “appeal” to Americans in dire straits to keep things the way they are? Or make them worse?

It’s ONLY the left that offers real solutions, tangible improvements, serious cost reductions, etc.

Billy_T wrote:

Thing is, centrists offer nothing for the poor, the working class, or the middle.

They don’t even MENTION the poor. It’s always the Middle Class they are “fighting for.” Which, of course, means affluent white people who vote.

And even that is only lip service.

I dunno. I hear what you leftists are saying, but I have no idea. I often think Waterfield/Obama is right in his political-algebra. It saddens me, and infuriates me, but I often think the ‘centrists’ are right. (no pun intended)

I think that simply because they keep voting year after year after year for…ya know. Year after year. No-one twisted their arms to vote for Hillary instead of Bernie last time. Bernie had plenty of momentum — and they voted for Hillary.
Its that way time after time after time. George McGovern. Eugene McCarthy. Etc. Sad, but true. American brains appear to be a vast wasteland.

The voters may very well be so brain-dead-propagandized-colonized-DeepStated at this point that they wont vote for a wacko wild-crazy-off-the-charts-leftist-commie-socialist-tree-huggin-whale-saving-pinko-Stalinist like…uh…Bernie.

Seriously, the nation may be too far down the drain to vote for anyone to the left of the System.

I have no faith in American voters anymore. Too stupid, they are. Not their fault, but they are what they are now.

We’ll see, I guess. I dunno.

w
v

W,

This might make you feel a little less worried:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/70-americans-trumps-actions-tied-ukraine-wrong-poll/story?id=67088534

And it came out before today’s testimony by Sondlund, which may well be a game-changer . . . Though we’ve heard that one before.

An overwhelming 70% of Americans think President Donald Trump’s request to a foreign leader to investigate his political rival, which sits at the heart of the House of Representatives’ impeachment inquiry, was wrong, a new ABC News/Ipsos poll finds.

The poll also finds that 51% think Trump should be impeached and removed from office. The “just impeach” percentage is 57%.

An NPR poll on the same day had similar numbers.

Adolph Reed Jr on the Obama-Centrist statement. (Nice to see Adolph Reed get some air time for a change.)

I like Reed too.

But his appearance, and its content, has me thinking about another dynamic that I don’t think existed in the media ecosystem prior to Trump. I might be wrong about that, but I’ve been paying close attention to media stuff for a while now. I’m pretty sure I’m right about this.

The Hill is a conservative media outlet. Its ownership is conservative, and most of its columnists are. It had John Solomon aboard until recently, a far-right crank, whose conspiracy theories about Ukraine were finally even too much for The Hill.

Notice no one said a word about the GOP and their doings. This was all just (valid, correct, self-evident) critique about the Dems, which actually helps the GOP, due to the nature of our moronic system. A conservative media outlet welcomes even leftists on board to go after the Dems . . . who deserve the bashing, of course. But they’re not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. It’s calculated to help the GOP.

On MSNBC, they have a slight modification of this. They, too, are owned by conservatives (Comcast), but they initially thought they’d be the “liberal” network and hired a coupla. Now, they mostly have Republican talking heads on who can’t stand Trump. They go after the GOP, almost exclusively, at least until the talk turns to things like M4A or “free” college, etc. etc. Then they revert back to their GOP talking points and bash the Dems for “going too far to the left.”

On CNN, if you pay attention, you’ll see that most of the talking heads and guests are former staff for various Republicans too. Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. They don’t like Trump, so they’re welcome on this or that panel. There are always more former Republican staffers than former Dem staffers, and it’s not close.

But if Trump isn’t the the subject, they’re going to spin for conservative ideology, on both CNN and MSNBC, more often than not.

Obviously, the deck has always been stacked against our side. But it’s also stacked against “progressive Dems.” I mean, the real kind. Not centrists who call themselves progressives. This actually helps the GOP.

Quite the dilemma for leftists, isn’t it?

Quick clarification:

My concern, of course, isn’t in being misunderstood about support for either party. I can’t stand either one. The point for me is that if that’s the supposed rationale for not critiquing one or the other, there’s a logical flip side to it. The absence of critiques of the GOP helps the GOP.

Our system is a monopoly political system, in effect, as every leftist knows. It’s anti-democratic because of that monopoly, and the capitalist system which controls it. So we have an either/or choice, essentially. We should be able to choose among dozens of parties and individuals that cover the entire gamut of American life. But since it’s either the Blue team or the Red team taking power after each election, or splitting some of that power between them, I, personally, don’t want to help the far worse option in any way, shape or form.

Again, one of many leftist dilemmas . . .

PS — Just want to add one more thing. I will say this about Hedges/Dore — They talk endlessly about supporting Leftist Policies. They talk endlessly about the evils of Corporate-Capitalist Imperialism, and other mainstream corporate-capitalist atrocities. And they talk a lot about various nefarious GOP players, including the old ones like Bush, Reagan, etc.

But. I will grant you they do not expressly pick on Trump that much. And sometimes they defend him in a way. By that I mean they dont USE THE DEMOCRAT PLAYBOOK for attacking Trump. They never go along with the DEMOCRAT version of “whats wrong with Trump.” And oftentimes they dispute the DEMOCRAT reasoning about “whats wrong with Trump.” The do ‘that’ a LOT.

Now one could interpret ‘that’ dynamic as being ‘pro Trump.’ But one would have to totally ignore the endless anti-righwing diatribes they have recorded in order to come the conclusion they were pro-trump. You’d also have to ignore the endless support they have recorded for LEFTIST (not Democrat) policies.

Having said all that, maybe you are right in this sense — Maybe they should do some particular shows detailing a LEFTIST critique of what is wrong with Trump.
Maybe they should do some of that. Its a fair criticism.

I think i know why they dont, but maybe they should.

w
v

wv wrote:

PS — Just want to add one more thing. I will say this about Hedges/Dore — They talk endlessly about supporting Leftist Policies. They talk endlessly about the evils of Corporate-Capitalist Imperialism, and other mainstream corporate-capitalist atrocities. And they talk a lot about various nefarious GOP players, including the old ones like Bush, Reagan, etc.

But. I will grant you they do not expressly pick on Trump that much. And sometimes they defend him in a way. By that I mean they dont USE THE DEMOCRAT PLAYBOOK for attacking Trump. They never go along with the DEMOCRAT version of “whats wrong with Trump.” And oftentimes they dispute the DEMOCRAT reasoning about “whats wrong with Trump.” The do ‘that’ a LOT.

Now one could interpret ‘that’ dynamic as being ‘pro Trump.’ But one would have to totally ignore the endless anti-righwing diatribes they have recorded in order to come the conclusion they were pro-trump. You’d also have to ignore the endless support they have recorded for LEFTIST (not Democrat) policies.

Having said all that, maybe you are right in this sense — Maybe they should do some particular shows detailing a LEFTIST critique of what is wrong with Trump.
Maybe they should do some of that. Its a fair criticism.

I think i know why they dont, but maybe they should.

w
v

WV,

I’m not asking them to use Democratic party talking points or playbook to attack Trump. I’m just saying they need to tell the truth about him and those in power, and stop being afraid of appearing to support the Dems in the process. Tell the truth. If people misunderstand that, tough.

Also, it’s not enough to say they’re leftists. So am I. And, again, I’d bet I’m further to the left than they are, or Greenwald, or Mate. We leftists disagree about stuff . . . as you know. There really isn’t leftist orthodoxy on this subject, obviously, and I’m not asking for that.

I’m saying that if the issue is the duopoly, and the system, and the concentration of wealth and power, inequality, etc. etc. . . . Trump is huge part of that ongoing problem. He and the GOP are a major part of all that. And prior to the 2018 election, Trump and the GOP held all branches of government. But it seemed that “Russiagate” just screwed with their critical abilities, so they wrote, at times, as if the Dems held all the power, and not Trump and the GOP. That the latter were “victims” of deep, dark powers that leftists should focus on above all else.

That aided and abetted Trump and the GOP, and it was hopelessly one-sided as critique.

In my view, it’s not even left of center to have a critique of the system and not include Trump and the GOP, much less “leftist.”

(Will try to flesh this out later. Not having the best of days. But, please, add more of your own thoughts. Would rather read your own than thoughts from those videos, frankly.)

Would appreciate your thoughts on the following:

The best leftist critiques, in my view, are about power dynamics. No one analyzes the effects of power imbalances and “systems” more accurately.

When Obama and the Dems won the White House, and held Congress for the first two years, it wouldn’t have made any sense at all if leftists had concentrated on Republicans. The Dems were in power. Focus on them. Not to the exclusion of the GOP, of course. It’s a duopoly. But the main focus should have been the party that held the Executive and Congress, named judges, etc. etc. Once the GOP controlled Congress, the focus should have reflected that change too.

Once Trump won the White House, however, leftist focus should have shifted again. The GOP already had Congress, and now they controlled all three branches. But for some leftists, the Dems were still the main object of focus. It was as if Clinton had won, and not Trump. I think this was primarily an overreaction to Russiagate, but there must have been all kinds of other reasons. Regardless, the absence of a shift wasn’t logical, and I think it went against — and still goes against — traditional (and effective) leftist critique.