LGBT gun rights group sees membership skyrocket

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  • #46770
    bnw
    Blocked

    LGBT gun rights group sees membership skyrocket after Orlando shooting

    Michael Burke, USA TODAY 10:22 a.m. EDT June 21, 2016

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/06/20/lgbt-gun-rights-group-sees-membership-skyrocket-after-orlando-shooting/86147114/

    Dylan West says the Pink Pistols gun club in Atlanta has been a stagnant group since he joined a year ago. But that’s all changed now.

    The gun club for LGBT people has roughly doubled in size to 230 members following this month’s nightmarish shooting at an Orlando gay nightclub that left 49 dead and 53 injured.

    “There’s always been a necessity for self-defense in the LGBT community,” said West, who grew up in Alabama surrounded by guns.

    Pink Pistols has 35 active chapters across the U.S., and nationally, its Facebook membership has increased from 1,500 before the shooting to about 6,500 as of Monday afternoon, spokeswoman Gwendolyn Patton said. That hike has encouraged some and worried others.

    Patton said several of the chapters have become active since last week. The organization helps its members “select a firearm, acquire a permit, and receive proper training in its safe and legal use for self-defense,” according to its website. Omar Mateen, the killer in the Orlando attacks, did not belong to the Pink Pistols.

    West, who is gay, said that while the Orlando nightclub shooting has thrown the issue into the national spotlight, attacks against the LGBT community “are nothing new.” The FBI reported 999 hate crimes committed against LGBT people in the United States in 2014, the most recent available data.

    Because the LGBT community is often the target of violent attacks, it’s important for LGBT people to carry guns to protect themselves, said Dave Kopel, an attorney and gun rights advocate.

    “People have to be their own first responders,” he said. “Law enforcement tries to get there as fast as possible to intervene, but they can’t be there all the time and it’s good when people have the tools and abilities to stay alive until law enforcement shows up.”

    But others aren’t as sure that the uptick in gun interest among LGBT people is a good thing.

    Timothy McCarthy — director of the Sexuality, Gender, and Human Rights Program at Harvard University’s Carr Center for Human Rights Policy — called it both understandable and lamentable that some LGBT people are turning to guns. It makes sense that LGBT people might feel scared after the shooting and want to arm themselves, McCarthy said, but he also said an urge to buy more guns “might be misplaced and problematic.”

    “Because I don’t believe that more guns is going to lead to less violence,” he said. “The more guns we have in circulation, the more guns we have in use, that sets us up for more violence.”

    But McCarthy also pointed out that 6,500 people — the approximate Facebook membership total of the Pink Pistols — is only a “tiny, tiny fraction” of the LGBT community.

    “So I also don’t think we should make so much of this,” he said.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46776
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Fear always wins out in these situations. I am not saying the fear
    is ‘unjustified’ either. I am just saying fear is always underneath all the ‘2nd Amendment’ arguments. You probably dont see it that way, but thats how i see it.

    Anyway, thats almost always how things play out after a big murder — more guns sold, not less.

    Course the issue isnt really guns at the moment its “guns that can kill a lot of people real kwik-like.” Blah blah blah

    w
    v

    #46777
    bnw
    Blocked

    Yes blaming the inanimate object rather than the murderer. Amerika.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46785
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Yes blaming the inanimate object rather than the murderer. Amerika.

    Because without the inanimate object the mass killing wouldn’t happen.

    #46788
    bnw
    Blocked

    Yes blaming the inanimate object rather than the murderer. Amerika.

    Because without the inanimate object the mass killing wouldn’t happen.

    Not true. Just takes a little more thought. Thought. Yes that is the murderer again.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46791
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Yes blaming the inanimate object rather than the murderer. Amerika.

    Because without the inanimate object the mass killing wouldn’t happen.

    Not true. Just takes a little more thought. Thought. Yes that is the murderer again.

    The gun makes it easy. Without the gun it’s too complicated and therefore prohibitive for the majority of mass killers. No semiautomatics means there would be much fewer mass killings.

    #46792
    bnw
    Blocked

    Yes blaming the inanimate object rather than the murderer. Amerika.

    Because without the inanimate object the mass killing wouldn’t happen.

    Not true. Just takes a little more thought. Thought. Yes that is the murderer again.

    The gun makes it easy. Without the gun it’s too complicated and therefore prohibitive for the majority of mass killers. No semiautomatics means there would be much fewer mass killings.

    Lots of things can make it easy. Even easier than using an AR-15. Things much easier to obtain than an AR-15. The AR-15 has been for sale to civilians for over 50 years yet all of a sudden it is this killing machine? No. The difference is the murderer. What accounts for the murderer? What has changed to create the murderer? Instead of finding out the real answers behind the creation of the mass murderers the inanimate object is blamed.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46797
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    you make a good point, but take the assault rifle out of the guy’s hands and give him a soft fluffy teddy bear and how many people does he kill then?

    i think people are talking past each other right now. oh well.

    #46798
    bnw
    Blocked

    you make a good point, but take the assault rifle out of the guy’s hands and give him a soft fluffy teddy bear and how many people does he kill then?

    i think people are talking past each other right now. oh well.

    If a bomb was in the fluffy teddy bear a whole lot of people could be killed. Just takes some thought. Even simpler ways too. Mass murderers are not by any means limited to the AR-15 or any other firearm.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46801
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    The national ban on the sale of rifles like the AR-15 and the SIG Sauer MCX expired in 2004, and it hasn’t been renewed.

    “But since Newtown, we’ve seen a wave of legislation at the state level, including restrictive new laws in California and Washington, Oregon, Colorado, New Jersey, Maryland, New York, we can go on and on,” Winkler says.

    Winkler, who wrote a book on the gun control debate called Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America, says about half of Americans now live in states where gun laws have tightened significantly the last few years.

    There are currently no good studies, or clear data, on whether these state-level gun laws make people safer. The CDC is still prohibited from conducting research on gun violence.

    http://www.npr.org/2016/06/15/482153718/assault-rifle-bans-find-life-on-state-level

    i think people are talking past each other right now

    Well the delusion is that this is a debate that can be “won,” as in, one side is “right.”

    That has nothing to do with it. It’s a clash of beliefs.

    So just channeling whatever info your sources channel in this effort to be right about this, about that, about one thing or another?

    Waste of time. If people interpret things differently they interpret them differently because their core beliefs differ.

    It is interesting to see the different narrative spins about the history, for example. That too just ends up being a clash of beliefs.

    Or facts about weaponry. Irrelevant. No one is going to get talked into or out of anything.

    The only thing that decides this issue is votes.

    One side or another musters more votes.

    The arguing just generally is the territory of the fanatical devotees. And as we know, there’s no talking to those types about anything. They have their narrative and they aren’t budging. We all do that but the difference is, when the rest of us tire from it and just go and vote, the fanatical devotee is still arguing. As. If. Just. One. More. Comment. Or. Detail. Will. Fix. EVERYTHING.

    #46802
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    i think the point is that it would make it more difficult. making a bomb would be more difficult. it would be a deterrent.

    but again. you make a good point. recognizing and treating mental illness is also very important. accepting people who are different from yourself is also very important.

    and i would also argue that those 2 issues are more important than gun control.

    i also don’t think buying more guns gets people any closer to solving those other 2 issues. in fact i’d say it’d for sure be detrimental to getting different groups of people to try to understand and accept one another.

    but yes. you make some very good points.

    #46803
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    i think the point is that it would make it more difficult. making a bomb would be more difficult. it would be a deterrent.

    but again. you make a good point. recognizing and treating mental illness is also very important. accepting people who are different from yourself is also very important.

    and i would also argue that those 2 issues are more important than gun control.

    i also don’t think buying more guns gets people any closer to solving those other 2 issues. in fact i’d say it’d for sure be detrimental to getting different groups of people to try to understand and accept one another.

    but yes. you make some very good points.

    Problem is, this is all just trading anecdotes. Fact is, the NRA made it impossible, by law, to do funded research on the effects of banning weapons…in fact virtually all research is prohibited, by law.

    Meanwhile it has never been proven that crime goes down with increases in gun ownership. NRA bots will say it has, but no one real and objectively neutral has ever demonstrated it has. It is just a belief.

    So either way as in my last post, it’s not about the facts. There are very few “facts” in the discussion. It’s about beliefs.

    How many bombings have there been in the USA in the last 10 years.

    How many mass shootings.

    Oh, and, suicides go up in places with more guns per capita too.

    Meanwhile understanding each other better? How are you going to accomplish that? That just puts you in a position where you say a lot of it is mental illness and also prejudices of different kinds—with no real way to fix that right now—AND it’s okay in a world like that to have easy access to powerful weapons?

    Sorry IR that does not compute.

    You say the world is a dangerous place because of those conditions (hate, mental illness) AND you let heavy-duty weapons circulate easily. That’s like saying we know these buildings are fire hazards AND it’s okay to set off fireworks indoors.

    #46804
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    huh? when did i say we should circulate more assault rifles. i said buying more guns wouldn’t get us any closer to solving issues of mental illness and intolerance.

    i think you misread me?

    #46806
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    huh? when did i say we should circulate more assault rifles. i said buying more guns wouldn’t get us any closer to solving issues of mental illness and intolerance.

    i think you misread me?

    Probably did misread you.

    Sorry!

    #46807
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    to be clear. i really don’t have a dog in the fight.

    but it’s becoming clearer that this society is mentally ill. in so many ways. so no. i don’t think that we need to throw assault rifles into a society that is so mentally ill. we really are. poverty, fear, intolerance is so rampant that we’re turning on each other. so yeah i think to myself maybe it’s time we toss aside some of our wants and desires and focus more on trying to heal ourselves.

    guns are just part of it though. how about living in a society where economic disparity isn’t so disparate. where everyone has access to healthcare – both mental and physical. where everyone has access to a good education. how about living under a government that isn’t so militarized. and maybe this is all being unrealistic. but that’s a society i would want to live in. do i think it’s going to happen? probably not. my confidence in humans is at an all time low.

    #46810
    bnw
    Blocked

    huh? when did i say we should circulate more assault rifles. i said buying more guns wouldn’t get us any closer to solving issues of mental illness and intolerance.

    i think you misread me?

    Probably did misread you.

    Sorry!

    Unless you address what creates the impulse to mass murder you will forever be chasing your tail.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46820
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    to be clear. i really don’t have a dog in the fight.

    but it’s becoming clearer that this society is mentally ill. in so many ways

    ===================

    I think all sides agree on that 🙂

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    v

    #46822
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Unless you address what creates the impulse to mass murder you will forever be chasing your tail.

    Appropriate counter-slogan.

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