Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › La on GW/JF
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zn.
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December 16, 2014 at 9:25 am #13959
wvParticipant============================================
LaramCoaches and players in all sports always talk about how important it is to finish the season strong, and have something positive to build on. Learning from what you accomplished and applying the teachings moving forward.
The Rams defense finished the 2013 season top shelve.
During the last 7 games of the 2013 season, the Rams defense was performing at the following level.
70.43 ypg rushing 1st in the NFL
3.2 ypc 1st in the NFL
Finished 9th in rushing allowing only 3.7 ypc
27 fumbles forced 2nd in the NFL
53 sacks 3rd in the NFLNote: Bobby Rainey had 20 carries for 37yds against the Rams in 2013. The same Bobby Rainey in 2014 had 22 carries for 144yds against this defense.
Adjusted totals, the Rams defense was only allowing 16.7 ppg allowed during that 7 game stretch.
Those results should have been something to build off of to begin the season. Same players, but with more experience and two additional players added to the defense playing at a high level.
Those of you that are in positions of authority, know that the worst thing you can do coming into a new environment is try and change everything at once. You come in with new ideas and innovations but you take what is presently working and build from that.
You gradually implement your ideas at a pace that is palatable and promotes a seamless transition.
Not Greg Williams. Oh NO.
He comes in guns a blazing with his Gold Cat schemes, 3 man fronts and fire zone blitzes and completely throws a monkey wrench in everything the defense was doing well.
For the first 5 games the Rams defense had no sacks, were allowing 27.6 ppg, and was 31st in the NFL in rushing defense. They forced very few turnovers and to most of us, the defense was unrecognizable.
By this time I’m sure most can see where I’m going with this.
Suppose Williams had done it the right way, or Fisher (as the leader) had insisted on it being done the right way and spoon fed the new wrinkles to the players. If you don’t know your players that well, then you don’t come in making wholesale changes.
Where would this team be now if the defense had started the year playing as well as they finished it??
Would they have won the Vikings, Cowboys and Eagles games??
Everything about Jeff Fisher and this regime is wrong for me. Everything.
The way the team prepares, the way they’re constructed, the mission statement, the execution and most of all…the leadership.
Rob Ryan really??
This is not a well run organization. There is no clear and concise plan on how to succeed in the NFL. That is clearly evident by the product on the field. A winning organization, winning team has a “look”. The Patriots, Seahawks. Niners look like winners. Niners have had a lot of issues this season but despite that are still a very tough team.
The Rams don’t have that look.
This organization is not scandent, regardless of the influx of talent. The Rams are what their record says they are. You can rationalize it however you want, those are the facts.
Btw we should all thank Bruce Arians. He actually paid us a compliment, the Rams haven’t finished 8-8 since 2006.
I’m done now, just reliving this teams missteps is raising my blood pressure!!
============================December 16, 2014 at 9:37 am #13960wvParticipantI just thot I’d list the losses
just soze i could look at emMinn 34-6
Dallas 34-31
Philly 34-28
SF 31-17
KC 34-7Ariz 31-14
SanD 27-24
Ariz 12-6The defense was just a mess
the first half of the year,
though, i never thought they
were being ‘overpowered’. Just
a lot of mistakes.(course, the refs did steal the Dallas game)
w
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This reply was modified 10 years ago by
wv.
December 16, 2014 at 11:10 am #13967
GreatRamNTheSkyParticipantOver the last three games the Rams have not allowed a Touchdown. If you take the 12 points the Cardinals scored last Thursday then the Rams defense has allowed less than 6 points a game for the last three. In sports it is what have you done for me lately and lately the Rams defense has jelled and has been terrific.
Grits
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This reply was modified 10 years ago by
GreatRamNTheSky.
December 16, 2014 at 12:15 pm #13969
DakParticipantI don’t know for sure about Fisher. I get that you are what your record says you are. I do believe that. I think the team has improved, though, and could be on the cusp of something pretty special. It’s still a young team. The defense obviously did not adjust well to Williams’ schemes early in the year. At the same time, I don’t know if Williams can come in and just make little changes here and there until the defense converts to his vision. I just don’t know if that’s realistic. Now, the defense looks great.
My main concern is still on the offensive side of the ball. They’ve shown flashes, but still struggle too often.
I don’t have as negative a view as La. But, yes, Fisher hasn’t proven much of anything yet. Next year is THE year to show something. 😉
December 16, 2014 at 12:56 pm #13975
MackeyserModeratorNot sure if it’s possible to work one’s way into the Williams D.
I dunno that. So I can’t say if what he did was irresponsible or not. But… I can say that his defense is now working, so we know it works with this crew.
Frankly, I’ll take that. We were good, but had limits before. This D has the capacity now to be great.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
December 17, 2014 at 1:56 pm #14067
bnwBlockedHindsight is 20:20. Losing your franchise QB before the season starts will effect the defense. Losing Chris Long affects the defense too. Starting three rookies in the secondary will affect the defense. Can’t disagree more with the OP’s assessment of JF and GW.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
December 17, 2014 at 2:06 pm #14068
znModeratorI dunno that. So I can’t say if what he did was irresponsible or not. But… I can say that his defense is now working, so we know it works with this crew.
Hindsight is 20:20. Losing your franchise QB before the season starts will effect the defense. Losing Chris Long affects the defense too. Starting three rookies in the secondary will affect the defense. Can’t disagree more with the OP’s assessment of JF and GW.
I agree with both of those statements…and will add this: this is the first time Wms as a defensive coordinator installed his system under the new CBA rules limiting off-season practices and especially practices in pads.
There was an interview with McDonald a while back where he said they spent a lot of time in extra meetings well into the season trying to get the defense down.
To me, early on, it looked a lot like 2011 when the offense was trying to play in the new system McD brought. This time of course it was the defense. They looked out of sync, uncomfortable, and of course made multiple game-killing errors.
There was a switch around the Denver game where players talked about getting the defense by then and playing fast without having to think.
Could WMS have cut it down? Maybe but then…that depends on whether your’re thinking longterm or short term. It seems to me that the Fisher Rams always make the longterm choice. For example, the draft–Matthews was presumed to be the better short term answer but he did not have Robinson’s longterm possibilities.
December 17, 2014 at 6:10 pm #14078wvParticipantLa on next year
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LaramI’m not the biggest G. Williams fan, so I might be a bit biased in my assessment but if you look at his history his defenses have been up and down. He’s had just as many bottom feeder defenses as top level one’s.
Teams will have all off season to study the Rams defenses and how to attack it. I think we’ll see more of teams running the Rams out of the Big Nickel. I don’t like the pass defense, I don’t think you can survive giving up 70% comp rate.
What I saw in the Arizona games concern me.
I also feel that JL and Jo-Lonn have declined and will continue to do so. So that means either an upgrade outside or more Big Nickel.
So we’ll see what they do in the off-season, and how they see the defense.
…
…As I’ve said before Carson would have shredded the Rams D.I’m not buying the hype, I still see holes and some good in-game counters by smart coordinators.
Washington and Oakland are a mess and the rushing stats against are not indicative of what’s transpiring in the games.
Redskins – 9 rushes
Broncos – 9 rushesWhen a team actually stuck with the run, AZ had 143 yds on about 29 atts
The Rams have had very few rushing atts against. Even in the SD game although Matthews had 105 yds he only had 12 carries, they had only 19 total.
I’m not convinced.
==========================December 17, 2014 at 7:31 pm #14085bnwBlocked…
…As I’ve said before Carson would have shredded the Rams D.I’m not buying the hype, I still see holes and some good in-game counters by smart coordinators.
I know this was from La. I would say Palmer showed no inclination of shredding the Rams D. His backup got very lucky on a couple passes. Their defense feasted on a rookie 3rd string QB very late in the game. Smart coordinators will always have good in game counters and as AZ has the best record in the NFC, thus the best offensive coordinator still couldn’t muster a TD against GW’s defense. What is the NFL record for most consecutive quarters a defense has gone without giving up a TD?
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
December 17, 2014 at 7:42 pm #14086
InvaderRamModeratorit’s funny that the defense is the unit that’s gone through so much flux during the fisher era while the offense has enjoyed continuity under schottenheimer.
but yeah. the defense will be out of excuses if williams stays. and there’s no reason to think that there will be another coordinator change there. another slow start will make my doubt grow bigger.
one thought. i wonder what the rams do if shaq thompson is available in the first round.
i could totally see them going for a guy like him – a hybrid lb/safety type – and then going offensive line in the later rounds.
December 17, 2014 at 7:55 pm #14087wvParticipantit’s funny that the defense is the unit that’s gone through so much flux during the fisher era while the offense has enjoyed continuity under schottenheimer.
but yeah. the defense will be out of excuses if williams stays. and there’s no reason to think that there will be another coordinator change there. another slow start will make my doubt grow bigger.
one thought. i wonder what the rams do if shaq thompson is available in the first round.
i could totally see them going for a guy like him – a hybrid lb/safety type – and then going offensive line in the later rounds.
I tend to agree with La in the sense that
I’m not totally sold on the D yet.
Somethin just doesnt feel quite right about it.
There’s just somethin about it that doesnt quite
seem totally ‘sound.’ I’m no expert, and i cant really
explain it, but I know it when i see it.Having said that, I think the D would certainly
be ‘good enough’ if the Offense would pull its weight.GW won a Ring with the Saints with a good, ornery D,
that created turnovers — and an Offense that blew
teams out.I think the Rams can win with GW, but i doubt the D
is ever really consistent, and they need
a complementary O. (kinda stating the obvious)w
vDecember 17, 2014 at 8:13 pm #14091InvaderRamModeratori’m on the fence i guess. it’s just hard for me to say for sure given all the coordinator changes.
gregg williams likes to gamble it seems. so maybe there will always be that risk/reward aspect to this defense. instead of just a consistent dominating defense. i don’t know. maybe that’s where the questions about being sound come from?
maybe it’s just a bunch of young guys who have to mature. i mean this team is loaded with guys who are just entering their prime years. quinn, donald, brockers, ogletree, gaines, mcdonald, and johnson are all 24 years old and younger. maybe as they get older the consistency starts to come around. and this defense looks more sound. more like the defense we are all expecting to see.
i don’t know. just throwing ideas around.
also. i do think if the rams can shore up that offensive line and get a quarterback the offense will be able to pull its weight.
and i do realize that’s a big IF.
December 17, 2014 at 9:02 pm #14095znModeratorI think the Rams can win with GW, but i doubt the D
is ever really consistent, and they need
a complementary O. (kinda stating the obvious)He didn’t have the players in N.O. as Ryan is proving now (31st on D).
The last time Wms did have some players as a coordinator was in Washington. That D was top 10 3 out of 4 years, and in that period the offense ranked 30th, 11th, and 14th. So in 2004, they had a D ranked 3rd and an offense ranked 30th.
And although he had decent players in Washington, it wasn’t a who’s who. Their best pass rusher in that period was Andre Carter (10.5 in 2007).
The reason, IMO, that this D does not feel “right” yet is that it still makes big mistakes in coverage.
Manning is getting sacked at a 5% rate which is 14th in the league. 5% is pretty good. This game, actually, is kind of a test for the Rams defense. The Giants can’t run but they hold up passing regardless.
December 17, 2014 at 11:44 pm #14105InvaderRamModeratori think it’ll be another year or two before the defense really takes off. meaning 2015 or 2016.
their average age is 25.1 years old.
chris long – 29
michael brockers – 24 (he’s still 23 but i include this season as his age 24 season. he turns 24 on dec 21st.)
aaron donald – 23
robert quinn – 24
jo-lonn dunbar – 29
james laurinaitis – 28
alec ogletree – 23
ej gaines – 22
tj mcdonald – 24
rodney mcleod – 24
janoris jenkins – 26still a lot of football to be played. but wow. that’s young. if they can build cohesion. confidence. and some stability in terms of playing in the same system. it could get kinda scary fun.
December 17, 2014 at 11:47 pm #14107
AgamemnonParticipant26 is pretty old for a CB.
AgamemnonDecember 18, 2014 at 12:02 am #14109InvaderRamModeratorlamarcus and tru are each 24 years old. ha!
December 18, 2014 at 1:27 am #14114znModeratorhttp://theramshuddle.com/topic/altered-roll-has-brockers-playing-nose-tackle/
their current string of 12 consecutive quarters without allowing a touchdown ties the franchise record, last set in 1939 when the team was based in Cleveland.
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