Krugman on Trump voters

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  • #53102
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Paul Krugman destroys the media myth that Trump voters have economic anxiety: It’s about race

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/paul-krugman-destroys-the-media-myth-that-trump-voters-have-economic-anxiety-its-about-race/

    Nobel-winning economist Paul Krugman shot down the idea on Thursday that Donald Trump’s supporters are motivated by economic concerns.

    “Ultimately, it’s about race,” he told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour. “You cannot understand anything that’s happening in this election and US politics without seeing it as — unfortunately, a fairly large fraction of Americans who don’t like the fact that we’re becoming a multiracial, multicultural country.”

    “They think that eats into their economic opportunity?” Amanpour asked.

    “It eats into their identity,” said Krugman. “It’s really not about economics.”

    Krugman added that in his circles, “economic anxiety” has become “kind of a joke slogan” when discussing Trump voters’ ideologies.

    “That is fascinating,” she said. “The conventional wisdom is that it is all about economic hardship, and you’re saying no.”

    “There is economic hardship,” Krugman replied. “West Virginia is not a happy place. But, mostly, we wouldn’t be as resistant to good news if weren’t really about something else. And it’s really mostly about race.”

    Watch footage from the interview, as aired on Thursday, below.

    #53107
    bnw
    Blocked

    Krugman is an idiot who is afraid Trump will audit the Fed. His desperation is invigorating.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53122
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    If it were about economic anxiety, they’d support Sanders or Stein, not Trump. Trump offers the vast majority of Americans nothing. Nada. Zilch. But he will give himself a massive tax break worth tens of millions of dollars a year, and his heirs, and corporate America, and all billionaires. He’s pushing standard issue voodoo economics which has never helped a single Americans outside the richest 1%.

    It IS all about race and white supremacy.

    And then, of course, there is this bombshell, which should end his campaign, but won’t. Primarily because the media are more focused on Clinton’s being sick and her basket of deplorables comment, and their bosses don’t want them investigating capitalists anyway.

    How the Trump Organization’s Foreign Business Ties Could Upend U.S. National Security By Kurt Eichenwald On 9/14/16 at 5:30 AM

    #53124
    bnw
    Blocked

    Desperate much?

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53138
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Paul Krugman destroys the media myth that Trump voters have economic anxiety: It’s about race

    Nobel-winning economist Paul Krugman shot down the idea on Thursday that Donald Trump’s supporters are motivated by economic concerns.

    “Ultimately, it’s about race,” he told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour. “You cannot understand anything that’s happening in this election and US politics without seeing it as — unfortunately, a fairly large fraction of Americans who don’t like the fact that we’re becoming a multiracial, multicultural country.”

    “They think that eats into their economic opportunity?” Amanpour asked.

    “It eats into their identity,” said Krugman. “It’s really not about economics.”

    Krugman added that in his circles, “economic anxiety” has become “kind of a joke slogan” when discussing Trump voters’ ideologies.

    “That is fascinating,” she said. “The conventional wisdom is that it is all about economic hardship, and you’re saying no.”

    “There is economic hardship,” Krugman replied. “West Virginia is not a happy place. But, mostly, we wouldn’t be as resistant to good news if weren’t really about something else. And it’s really mostly about race.”

    I have observed myself that photos and video of Trump rallies reveal more signs about race than about jobs. That has been true all along. FWIW.

    #53141
    bnw
    Blocked

    I have observed myself that photos and video of Trump rallies reveal more signs about race than about jobs. That has been true all along. FWIW.

    Its worth nothing. Always playing the race card won’t work any more. The problems of illegal immigration are real and the establishment ignoring the situation and working to make it worse has energized people to respond at the ballot box. One of many issues that needs to be addressed. Ford is moving their small car production to Mexico using the taxpayer funds to build the new plant in Mexico. Government is broke and must be fixed.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53143
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I have observed myself that photos and video of Trump rallies reveal more signs about race than about jobs. That has been true all along. FWIW.

    Its worth nothing. Always playing the race card won’t work any more. The problems of illegal immigration are real and the establishment ignoring the situation and working to make it worse has energized people to respond at the ballot box. One of many issues that needs to be addressed. Ford is moving their small car production to Mexico using the taxpayer funds to build the new plant in Mexico. Government is broke and must be fixed.

    We know it’s about race and white supremacy. If it weren’t, why would Trump hire Bannon, a white supremacist, to run his campaign? It’s actually amazing that this was a story for such a short time. It’s as if George Wallace were the nominee, and after an initial reaction of OMG, it’s now just “meh.” Trump has succeeded in selling white supremacy back to Americans, and mainstreaming it.

    But, to me, the biggest tell is he has absolutely NO economic answers other than to pay himself tens of millions more via new tax breaks, and put tens of millions more in the pockets of his heirs by ending the Estate Tax — which ONLY impact 0.2% of the country anyway.

    Nothing he proposes will add one single job for Americans. Not one. And, if you read the Newsweek article, he’s going to be tied to foreign investors, partners and creditors to a greater degree than any president in history. His business empire depends upon it. And he owes the Chinese 650 million, personally.

    Any working class person who votes for Trump is voting against his or her own best interests, many times over.

    #53152
    bnw
    Blocked

    Everything is race to the fear mongers. It doesn’t work any more because it is the chain that binds. The people want change. Trump is that change.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53165
    NewMexicoRam
    Participant

    That’s racist in itself.
    The media, on behalf of the Democrats, are pulling out all the stops on this one.

    #53171
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    That’s racist in itself.
    The media, on behalf of the Democrats, are pulling out all the stops on this one.

    ———-
    My own view is, i prettymuch tune-out anyone that says
    “Trump voters are..xyz”

    I mean, theres millions of voters in the Trump camp. Ya definitely
    have yer confederate-flag-loving-racist types. You have to try very hard
    to NOT see that faction. Its a big, loud, faction, and its in the Trump camp.

    But its only one faction of the Trump camp. There’s plenty of others.

    So, I dont think Krugman was very thorough in his analysis.

    What i see is….a lot of Trump voters wont admit that the Trump camp has a big racist-faction. They dont want to see it, or simply wont admit to it.

    But I also think its hard for the clinton voters to see that theres big factions in the Trump camp that are NOT part of the big racist faction. There’s plenty of voters who just think of him as an ‘outsider’ and a ross perot type, etc.

    Just my opinion.

    I still think Clinton is going to win, but apparently its close again, now.

    Anyway, whichever of the two evil-candidates wins, I’m going to think its a total disaster for all life on the Planet.

    w
    v

    #53177
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    What i see is….a lot of Trump voters wont admit that the Trump camp has a big racist-faction. They dont want to see it, or simply wont admit to it.

    But I also think its hard for the clinton voters to see that theres big factions in the Trump camp that are NOT part of the big racist faction. There’s plenty of voters who just think of him as an ‘outsider’ and a ross perot type, etc.

    I agree with a lot of your assessment, but I think you’re leaving out another perspective: Leftists, who detest both parties, won’t vote for either candidate, but see Trump as a racist demagogue, and a large portion of his voters following him because of that.

    By no means all of them. But a significant portion. We know it’s significant, because study after study, asking them to describe their own views, shows us this. Hell, 20% of his supporters in South Carolina said Lincoln never should have freed the slaves, and a much higher percentage said the South should have won — which is defacto support for slavery. More than 65% of his supporters, regardless of state, think Obama isn’t eligible to be the president, being born elsewhere. Trump himself led the racist birther (papers please!) charge for six years until just yesterday, when he scammed the media into helping him do an infomercial for his campaign and his new hotel, because he said he’d say something big about birtherism.

    So, again, no one is saying it’s all of his supporters. But it is a significant chunk. More importantly, to me, Trump himself built his campaign on the twin pillars of birtherism and hatred and fear of brown people supposedly coming to take our jobs from us. If he had not done so, he never would have won the Republican nomination. What else is he offering, but a shot in the arm for white nationalists?

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    #53179
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    <Hell, 20% of his supporters in South Carolina said Lincoln never should have freed the slaves, and a much higher percentage said the South should have won — which is defacto support for slavery…

    ————-
    Well, i hadn’t seen that survey (and of course Trumpists will deny its validity), but it doesn’t surprise me.

    Having said that, I bet you could find 20 percent of Clinton voters believe in some pretty batshit-crazy stuff. Religion, etc.

    We are trapped on Earth, comrad. Itz a madhouse 🙂

    PS – I’m also always ‘wondering’ about ‘strategy’. Like, for example, I personally would like to burn an amerikan flag (and almost every other national flag) every day 🙂 But i dont because its bad strategy. Just alienates the masses. I also wonder about calling out Trumpists as ‘ignorant racists’ etc, etc, and so forth. I dont know that that is good strategy 🙂 So, i tend to resist it, or go in another direction. Even though, yes, its true, that a big loud faction of Trumpists are the worst kind of david-duke racists.

    w
    v

    #53182
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    <Hell, 20% of his supporters in South Carolina said Lincoln never should have freed the slaves, and a much higher percentage said the South should have won — which is defacto support for slavery…

    ————-
    Well, i hadn’t seen that survey (and of course Trumpists will deny its validity), but it doesn’t surprise me.

    Having said that, I bet you could find 20 percent of Clinton voters believe in some pretty batshit-crazy stuff. Religion, etc.

    We are trapped on Earth, comrad. Itz a madhouse.

    PS – I’m also always ‘wondering’ about ‘strategy’. Like, for example, I personally would like to burn an amerikan flag (and almost every other national flag) every day. But i dont because its bad strategy. Just alienates the masses. I also wonder about calling out Trumpists as ‘ignorant racists’ etc, etc, and so forth. I dont know that that is good strategy. So, i tend to resist it, or go in another direction. Even though, yes, its true, that a big loud faction of Trumpists are the worst kind of david-duke racists.

    w
    v

    I think you’re right about the strategy part. Something to keep fresh in one’s mind.

    And, yes, a lot of Dems believe in whacked out stuff too. And, now that you mention strategy, they have a real issue with that as well.

    (For instance): On another forum, I’ve seen Clinton supporters just go off on people who are thinking about voting for Stein, and they usually add virtual hatred of millennials to their rants. I’ve tried to tell them, if you really want people to vote for your candidate of choice, it’s never a good idea to berate them, slap them about the head verbally, scold them and humiliate them, etc. And, of course, their go to scold/scapegoat move is “Nader gave us Bush!!” Um, no he didn’t. It’s physically and logically impossible for a third party candidate in one state to do that, not to mention the fact that 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush in Florida. And I tell them this. And I also tell them you’re not going to get people to switch if you blame them for all the evils of the world, etc. Expecting them to ignore that tongue lashing you just gave them isn’t very realistic.

    They don’t listen.

    #53183
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    P.S.

    WV, I had to take out your emojis. Sorry. They blew up when I quoted you. Like they were set to do that. Like you had planned that all along — to make them expand and gobble up the page — or is it, the world!!

    Now I see your double-secret special covert undercover plan to take over the planet, one emoji at a time!

    #53185
    bnw
    Blocked

    That’s racist in itself.
    The media, on behalf of the Democrats, are pulling out all the stops on this one.

    It is getting ridiculous. When Hildabeast fainted they reported it as “Stumbled getting into vehicle”. Shameless leftists in the media don’t understand that the people know they lie constantly thus their 6% approval rating.

    Please excuse my prying with a crowbar. How long have you lived in New Mexico?

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53191
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    <And, of course, their go to scold/scapegoat move is “Nader gave us Bush!!” Um, no he didn’t. It’s physically and logically impossible for a third party candidate in one state to do that, not to mention the fact that 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush in Florida. And I tell them this. And I also tell them you’re not going to get people to switch if you blame them for all the evils of the world, etc. Expecting them to ignore that tongue lashing you just gave them isn’t very realistic.
    They don’t listen.

    —————
    Thats a lot of Dems voting for Bush. I didn’t realize that many Dems had gone Rep.

    Anyway, I am smiling thinking of you posting on Democrat sites. I could never do it. My head would explode. Or worse, it wouldn’t explode and I’d have to suffer longer.

    w
    v

    #53194
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    <And, of course, their go to scold/scapegoat move is “Nader gave us Bush!!” Um, no he didn’t. It’s physically and logically impossible for a third party candidate in one state to do that, not to mention the fact that 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush in Florida. And I tell them this. And I also tell them you’re not going to get people to switch if you blame them for all the evils of the world, etc. Expecting them to ignore that tongue lashing you just gave them isn’t very realistic.
    They don’t listen.

    —————
    Thats a lot of Dems voting for Bush. I didn’t realize that many Dems had gone Rep.

    Anyway, I am smiling thinking of you posting on Democrat sites. I could never do it. My head would explode. Or worse, it wouldn’t explode and I’d have to suffer longer.

    w
    v

    This postmortem from 2000 is good for several reasons, not just the 308,000 stat. But here it is:

    I’m grateful to Tim Wise, a Nashville writer and activist who dug into the Florida tallies and exit polls to find some stunning results that refute the “Ralph did it” assault. Wise’s full report will appear in a forthcoming issue of Z magazine, but the essence of it is that Gore was the problem, not Nader. Start with two constituent groups that Democratic nominees usually win in the Sunshine State:

    1) Seniors. By a 51-47 percent margin, Gore lost the over-65 vote in Florida. Bush got 67,000 more senior votes than Gore did, even after all the Democratic scare talk about vanishing Social Security benefits. Had Gore simply broken even with this constituency, he would have won.

    2) White Women. This group typically votes Democratic in Florida, or splits evenly. Gore lost them to Bush by 53-44 percent. Had he gotten 50 percent of these votes, he’d have added 65,000 votes to his total — plenty enough to have put the state in his column election night.

    Now it gets really ugly for the Gore campaign, for there are two other Florida constituencies that cost them more votes than Nader did. First, Democrats. Yes, Democrats! Nader only drew 24,000 Democrats to his cause, yet 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush. Hello. If Gore had taken even 1 percent of these Democrats from Bush, Nader’s votes wouldn’t have mattered. Second, liberals. Sheesh. Gore lost 191,000 self-described liberals to Bush, compared to less than 34,000 who voted for Nader.

    #53195
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I have observed myself that photos and video of Trump rallies reveal more signs about race than about jobs. That has been true all along. FWIW.

    Its worth nothing. Always playing the race card won’t work any more. The problems of illegal immigration are real and the establishment ignoring the situation and working to make it worse has energized people to respond at the ballot box. One of many issues that needs to be addressed. Ford is moving their small car production to Mexico using the taxpayer funds to build the new plant in Mexico. Government is broke and must be fixed.

    It’s worth nothing to people who don’t care about racism.

    It’s worth something to people who do care.

    Not so much what his supporters think because I don’t care what they think. What bothers me is what he says that attracts racists. And you are the only person here who doesn’t see what is plainly obvious to everyone else. Trump is a racist.

    #53197
    bnw
    Blocked

    Gore couldn’t even win his home state because we know he’s full of crap.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53201
    bnw
    Blocked

    I have observed myself that photos and video of Trump rallies reveal more signs about race than about jobs. That has been true all along. FWIW.

    Its worth nothing. Always playing the race card won’t work any more. The problems of illegal immigration are real and the establishment ignoring the situation and working to make it worse has energized people to respond at the ballot box. One of many issues that needs to be addressed. Ford is moving their small car production to Mexico using the taxpayer funds to build the new plant in Mexico. Government is broke and must be fixed.

    It’s worth nothing to people who don’t care about racism.

    It’s worth something to people who do care.

    Not so much what his supporters think because I don’t care what they think. What bothers me is what he says that attracts racists. And you are the only person here who doesn’t see what is plainly obvious to everyone else. Trump is a racist.

    Thats BS but thats what you’re programmed to do. Always playing the race card. No matter what. It is old. It is tired. It no longer works. Fear mongering won’t work forever as 2016 will prove. You will have to realize that disagreeing with your position doesn’t make people racist.
    hypocrite hill

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53207
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Well, i hadn’t seen that survey (and of course Trumpists will deny its validity), but it doesn’t surprise me.

    Having said that, I bet you could find 20 percent of Clinton voters believe in some pretty batshit-crazy stuff. Religion, etc.

    But the pertinent question would be, would 20% of those voters be open racists.

    It matters. It’s one of the big things. It can’t be made secondary or unimportant.

    #53209
    bnw
    Blocked

    Well, i hadn’t seen that survey (and of course Trumpists will deny its validity), but it doesn’t surprise me.

    Having said that, I bet you could find 20 percent of Clinton voters believe in some pretty batshit-crazy stuff. Religion, etc.

    But the pertinent question would be, would 20% of those voters be open racists.

    It matters. It’s one of the big things. It can’t be made secondary or unimportant.

    As opposed to closeted racists? Thats the criteria? I suppose thats easy to get away with in lily white Maine. Reminds me of the social justice warriors in 1970s Boston during the Public School busing conflict. When implemented so many either moved or sent their kids to private school.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53210
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    You will have to realize that disagreeing with your position doesn’t make people racist.

    That’s true.

    Painting everybody who fits one racial profile as more likely to meet specific behavioral criteria than people from another race is what makes people racist.

    It has nothing to do with whether they agree with me or not.

    #53211
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    You will have to realize that disagreeing with your position doesn’t make people racist.

    That’s true.

    Painting everybody who fits one racial profile as more likely to meet specific behavioral criteria than people from another race is what makes people racist.

    It has nothing to do with whether they agree with me or not.

    In a sane nation, his birtherism, his buddying up with Alex Jones, his embrace of the alt-right and white supremacy, should have been more than enough to disqualify him. Then we have his call to ban all Muslims from entering the country — which well over half of his supporters back — and that, again, all by itself, should have ended his campaign for good. It’s not hyperbole to call that “fascist.” It’s Nazi-like too. It’s all too close to what Hitler did to Jews in 1930s Germany. He and his sons are also given to retweeting neo-Nazi writings and symbols. There’s a pattern here.

    On top of that, he’s called for the assassination of Clinton twice now,, though this was thinly veiled in his usual word salad. But it went beyond dog whistle into outright barking.

    And then there’s his outright bribing of Pam Bondi, which worked to stop an investigation into Trump University . . . . and as David A. Fahrenthold has learned through extensive investigative reporting, the near absolutely absence of charitable giving, in the face of his serial lies regarding that topic.

    And the above it just the tip of the iceberg. Trump has done and said dozens and dozens of despicable things, each of which should have ended his campaign — of not put him in jail. Contrary to the endless whining and moaning from his supporters that he’s supposedly being treated unfairly by the media and “the establishment,” he’s only in this thing because the media haven’t done their jobs and “the establishment” knows he’ll slash their taxes and deregulate their businesses.

    #53221
    bnw
    Blocked

    Trump has done and said dozens and dozens of despicable things, each of which should have ended his campaign — of not put him in jail.

    Spoken like a true leftist. They want freedom of speech but not for anyone else. Stalin and Mao and Hitler would be so proud.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53224
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Bnw,

    I’ll break with my promise just this time and respond to your unprovoked personal slam:

    Spoken like a true leftist. They want freedom of speech but not for anyone else. Stalin and Mao and Hitler would be so proud.

    His actions. As I said, his actions. THOSE should have put him in jail. He can say whatever the hell he wants, outside of inciting violence, which he so often does. I’m all for “freedom of speech,” as are all the leftists here. But he should have been jailed for his business dealings long ago. Read the Newsweek article for a good start, and the one on his charity scams too.

    Also, Hitler’s on your side of the political aisle, not ours. He was a righty. Leftists, in fact, made up the vast, vast majority of the forces fighting him. All the resistance movements, in fact, were DOMINATED by leftists. Socialists, communists, libertarian socialists, left-anarchists, especially.

    Now, back to ignoring you.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    #53227
    bnw
    Blocked

    Bnw,

    I’ll break with my promise just this time and respond to your unprovoked personal slam:

    Spoken like a true leftist. They want freedom of speech but not for anyone else. Stalin and Mao and Hitler would be so proud.

    His actions. As I said, his actions. THOSE should have put him in jail. He can say whatever the hell he wants, outside of inciting violence, which he so often does. I’m all for “freedom of speech,” as are all the leftists here. But he should have been jailed for his business dealings long ago. Read the Newsweek article for a good start, and the one on his charity scams too.

    Also, Hitler’s on your side of the political aisle, not ours. He was a righty. Leftists, in fact, made up the vast, vast majority of the forces fighting him. All the resistance movements, in fact, were DOMINATED by leftists. Socialists, communists, libertarian socialists, left-anarchists, especially.

    Now, back to ignoring you.

    Stop it. Don’t deflect and don’t deny. What you wrote was clear-

    “Trump has done and said dozens and dozens of despicable things, each of which should have ended his campaign — of not put him in jail.”

    Save your rewrite of history too. National Socialism. Of course Hitler didn’t kill anywhere near the number of people Stalin and Mao did.

    This makes at least three times you broke your promise to not post to me. Its OK I know I’m irresistible.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53229
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Bnw,

    I’ll break with my promise just this time and respond to your unprovoked personal slam:

    Spoken like a true leftist. They want freedom of speech but not for anyone else. Stalin and Mao and Hitler would be so proud.

    His actions. As I said, his actions. THOSE should have put him in jail. He can say whatever the hell he wants, outside of inciting violence, which he so often does. I’m all for “freedom of speech,” as are all the leftists here. But he should have been jailed for his business dealings long ago. Read the Newsweek article for a good start, and the one on his charity scams too.

    Also, Hitler’s on your side of the political aisle, not ours. He was a righty. Leftists, in fact, made up the vast, vast majority of the forces fighting him. All the resistance movements, in fact, were DOMINATED by leftists. Socialists, communists, libertarian socialists, left-anarchists, especially.

    Now, back to ignoring you.

    Stop it. Don’t deflect and don’t deny. What you wrote was clear-

    “Trump has done and said dozens and dozens of despicable things, each of which should have ended his campaign — of not put him in jail.”

    Save your rewrite of history too. National Socialism. Of course Hitler didn’t kill anywhere near the number of people Stalin and Mao did.

    This makes at least three times you broke your promise to not post to me. Its OK I know I’m irresistible.

    I was OBVIOUSLY talking about his actions. I have never in my life said or suggested that people should be jailed for their political speech. It’s not on the page, bnw. It’s not there, or anywhere else. Not in virtual worlds or in the real world. I’ve ALWAYS supported freedom of speech.

    That said, as usual, you’re just doing what all Trump supporters I’ve encountered do. Rather than dealing directly with criticisms made against him, his supporters try to redirect that criticism back to the person (or media) making it, thus avoiding grappling with its content, evah.

    And just so we are clear about this: You’re saying Hitler and the Nazis were left-wing? Seriously? This would put you at odds with the Nazis themselves, who proudly called themselves right-wing, as did ALL fascist parties from the 1920s through the end of their heyday in the 1940s. And what do they call themselves now, in their neo-Nazi and neo-Fascist forms? Right-wing. They despise the left, as did Hitler, Mussolini, Franco and company.

    In their own day, NO ONE called them left-wing, including themselves. EVERYONE in their own day and time considered them right-wingers. And for decades after WWII, that was the historical consensus. It still is.

    Sorry, but YOU’RE rewriting history, not me.

    #53230
    bnw
    Blocked

    Bnw,

    I’ll break with my promise just this time and respond to your unprovoked personal slam:

    Spoken like a true leftist. They want freedom of speech but not for anyone else. Stalin and Mao and Hitler would be so proud.

    His actions. As I said, his actions. THOSE should have put him in jail. He can say whatever the hell he wants, outside of inciting violence, which he so often does. I’m all for “freedom of speech,” as are all the leftists here. But he should have been jailed for his business dealings long ago. Read the Newsweek article for a good start, and the one on his charity scams too.

    Also, Hitler’s on your side of the political aisle, not ours. He was a righty. Leftists, in fact, made up the vast, vast majority of the forces fighting him. All the resistance movements, in fact, were DOMINATED by leftists. Socialists, communists, libertarian socialists, left-anarchists, especially.

    Now, back to ignoring you.

    Stop it. Don’t deflect and don’t deny. What you wrote was clear-

    “Trump has done and said dozens and dozens of despicable things, each of which should have ended his campaign — of not put him in jail.”

    Save your rewrite of history too. National Socialism. Of course Hitler didn’t kill anywhere near the number of people Stalin and Mao did.

    This makes at least three times you broke your promise to not post to me. Its OK I know I’m irresistible.

    I was OBVIOUSLY talking about his actions. I have never in my life said or suggested that people should be jailed for their political speech. It’s not on the page, bnw. It’s not there, or anywhere else. Not in virtual worlds or in the real world. I’ve ALWAYS supported freedom of speech.

    It most certainly is on the page. Again, this is what you wrote-

    “Trump has done and said dozens and dozens of despicable things, each of which should have ended his campaign — of not put him in jail.”

    Complain all you want but you wrote it. You can always admit you made a mistake.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53279
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I’m pumped that the Rams won. So, there is that.

    That said, if you can admit you’re wrong about the Nazis, I’ll admit that it would have been better if the editing function hadn’t run out before I could change “of” to “if”. I can admit that it would have been better to separate “Trump has done” from “has said” to make it easier for the supremely defensive to see the obvious.

    As in, Trump’s illegal business dealings would have resulted in jail sentences long ago, if he weren’t a rich shhht. No one has said or implied that he should go to jail for what he’s said.

    So, again, will you admit that Nazis and fascists were right wing? We can move on from there.

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