Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › JT chat (selected) … 10/25
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October 26, 2016 at 12:06 am #56097znModerator
NFL chat with Jim Thomas … (selections)
http://sports.live.stltoday.com/Event/NFL_chat_with_Jim_Thomas_33?Page=0
Bleacher Report is reporting Goff is “a long way from playing”
by Earl 2:10 PMWhich makes you wonder what has he been doing since the draft, and what have the coaches been doing with him? In the last several weeks, from people I know around the league, I’ve heard these 2 things: 1.) Goff doesn’t appear to have much in the way of leadership skills. 2.) Behind closed doors in Thousand Oaks, the Rams aren’t as high on Goff as they are proclaiming publicly.
by jthomas 2:14 PMSo have you already decided that Goff is useless? A complete bust? Even Jamarcus Russell played before it was known he was a bust. Tim Couch. Just wondering what you know here.
by Steve 2:30 PMNo, I haven’t decided that at all. I’d just like to see the guy play.
by jthomas 2:32 PM*Is Russell Wilson hurt? He is incapable of scrambling and that hurts Seattle big time
by Jimmy 2:40 PMYeah, from what I’ve heard, he wasn’t moving that well Sunday night, eh? Remember, he had the knee injury in one leg, and the high ankle sprain on the other. And apparently the bye week wasn’t enough to get him back closer to full health. His mobility certainly is a big factor in what he does.
by jthomas 2:42 PMIf Orlando Pace is a 10 and Jason Smith is a 1, how do you rate Greg Robinson? I get that you like to give players some time to develop before you write them off, but by the third year, it’s getting time to start making some conclusions, yes?
by Mel Gray 2:49 PMNo doubt. Usually, but not always, if you’re not seeing it by the third year in the NFL you’re simply not going to see it. Now I have to preface this by saying I’ve watched hardly any coaches’ film this season of the Rams (which gives you a much better indication of the quality of line play); I’ve been watching TV copy. But on your ranking scale, I’d give Robinson maybe a 4 or 5, which obviously isn’t good enough for a No. 2 overall pick. The penalties as much as anything continue to astound me. Shouldn’t he have been coached out of those bad techniques by now? Or is this simply one of those cases where no amount of coaching can fix it.
by jthomas 2:53 PMThe rams have had onlky two home games halfway thru the season. Has this hurt?
by Jim lewis 2:57 PMIt can’t help. And so far, the Coliseum has been a pretty good home-field advantage. But keep in mind, the London game was a Rams home game _ Kroenke’s attempt to make more money and keep demand up in LA. So only five of the Rams’ remaining nine games will be played in LA.
by jthomas 2:59 PMHi Jim. Lifelong resident of Sacto, loved the LA Rams as a kid, loved the St Louis Rams as a young adult now I love the LA Rams again in middle age, & so it goes. This year its once again poor OLine play, bad QB play, lack of productive WRs, weird mediocre coaching, dumb mistakes and penalties plus an owner who gives ugats about winning games…i.e, way way too much “7-9 bs” have followed the Rams from the 314 to the 213. Whats the biggest bye-week tweak you see them making or not making to beat/lose to the Panthers?
by Sacramento Ram 3:02 PMWell, this would be the week I change QBs, but that’s not going to happen. But if I point to one thing: They simply have to get the run game going. Gurley showed signs that he was close to that breakout game against both Buffalo and Detroit, but then the running game took a step back against the NY Giants, and the Rams really didn’t give him a ton of work (15 carries) even though it was a close game throughout. Now, how exactly do you fix the running game, I’m not sure.
by jthomas 3:05 PMDo you think Fisher and Snead will still get extensions on their contracts now?
by Leon Anton 3:05 PMI believe that’s still in the works.
by jthomas 3:05 PMI read a piece that the lower ratings are due in part to many younger fans watching on streaming devices, which are not monitored the same way as televisions…if at all. Even with lower ratings, the NFL is doing just fine and will only get bigger.
by mr 3:24 PMThat is a factor, but it cannot account for an 11 percent drop. And I think one of the problems is that the younger generation simply isn’t watching as much NFL as it did in the past.
by jthomas 3:25 PMThe Rams are not going anywhere this year no matter who plays QB, the Rams must have some idea what Goff. What happens if Goff gets hurt, What happens if Goff stinks, What Happens if Goff is ok, nothing good for Fish. If Goff goes in and lights it up, then Fish looks bad for waiting to play him. Or at best, Fish looks good for drafting him. However, the Rams wont be able to market the intrigue of Goff next year to sell tickets.
by Mark S 3:46 PMI wouldn’t write off the schedule just yet. The Rams have a pretty soft schedule this year, particularly compared to some of their recent schedules in St Louis. Coming out of the bye, they get 1-5 Carolina, and still have games against San Fran 1-6, Miami 3-4, the New York Jets 2-5, and New Orleans 2-4. Those are all winnable games.
by jthomas 3:49 PMRams start the season 3-1 after playing 3 divisional opponents. They lose the next 3 against non-divisional opponents which makes them 3-4. The next 6 are against non-divisional opponents. Are we looking at 3-10? Haven’t we seen this non-divisional problem before?
by Tom R 3:52 PMYes we have. But the Rams 6 remaining non-divisional opponents are a combined 18-22 _ and 12-21 when you subtract New England _ so there should be a couple, three victories in there.
by jthomas 3:55 PMBradford took a pounding last week much like Brady did in the playoff loss to Denver last year. On some of the plays you could see the blitz coming on TV. I know it is much easier and different than standing behind the center. Just curious as to your opinion how good Bradford was diagnosing defenses pre-snap for the Rams and checking to a different play?
by Woody 4:15 PMI’ve only seen a few TV highlights from the Minnesota-Philadelphia game. But I did see him throw that INT into triple coverage in the end zone and wondered what was he thinking. Overall, Bradford was pretty careful with the football in St. Louis. He certainly didn’t see the field as well as Warner or diagnose as well as Warner, but Warner was rare. Very rare.
by jthomas 4:18 PMWhy do you think that Greg Robinson is struggling so bad in the NFL?
by Boom or Bust 3:50 PMSeems to lunge at approaching defenders instead of staying back and “catching” them. And I can’t explain the penalties _ he must have bad habits there that he can’t seem to break.
by jthomas 3:51 PM..is Greg Robinson the new Alex Barron?
by BoPat from SoCal 4:36 PMI think Robinson cares more than Barron did.
by jthomas 4:36 PMHave defenses solved Gurley? one 100 yard game in 14 starts. Your Thoughts?
by Blue 4:37 PMHere’s what I’ve noticed. They are almost always tackling him low these days, around the ankles. The few times Gurley has gotten in the open field, he doesn’t seem like he has his normal acceleration this year. And I don’t think you can over-estimate the fact that teams are ganging up against the run because the Rams don’t have a passing game that you have to fear. But if you notice on some pass plays _ and the Rams are starting to use him more in the passing game _ he remains very hard to bring down in the open field. I’d like to see a few more stretch plays with him, instead of these constant runs off right guard and left guard.
by jthomas 4:41 PMOctober 26, 2016 at 1:35 am #56099joemadParticipantWhich makes you wonder what has he been doing since the draft, and what have the coaches been doing with him? In the last several weeks, from people I know around the league, I’ve heard these 2 things:
1.) Goff doesn’t appear to have much in the way of leadership skills. 2.) Behind closed doors in Thousand Oaks, the Rams aren’t as high on Goff as they are proclaiming publicly.
by jthomas 2:14 PM
Bummer.
October 26, 2016 at 10:13 am #56109ZooeyModeratorWhich makes you wonder what has he been doing since the draft, and what have the coaches been doing with him? In the last several weeks, from people I know around the league, I’ve heard these 2 things:
1.) Goff doesn’t appear to have much in the way of leadership skills. 2.) Behind closed doors in Thousand Oaks, the Rams aren’t as high on Goff as they are proclaiming publicly.
by jthomas 2:14 PM
Bummer.
Yeah, bummer.
But 1. that can come. He has only just turned 22. I thought he acted very young in Hard Knocks. Just a kid. So time and some real experience on the field could change that.
2. Well…duh. I am sure there is some disappointment that he has SUCH a long way to go. They knew he was not ready, but they probably underestimated how far off he was when they drafted him.
October 26, 2016 at 10:37 am #56113PA RamParticipantWell, I saw some things in Hard Knocks that concerned me a bit.
If they blew this pick the franchise will suffer for years. When you go all-in on a player like they did for Goff–you’d better be damn sure about him. Either they can’t evaluate properly and just rolled the dice, or they were just that desperate.
Either way–sooner or later, you gotta take the cloak off and show what’s there.
Maybe it won’t be this year.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
October 26, 2016 at 11:15 am #56114znModeratorWell, I saw some things in Hard Knocks that concerned me a bit.
If they blew this pick the franchise will suffer for years. When you go all-in on a player like they did for Goff–you’d better be damn sure about him. Either they can’t evaluate properly and just rolled the dice, or they were just that desperate.
My take? First JT is the only person saying what he is saying about Goff. You don’t hear that anywhere else. I take it with a grain of salt.
Second? The switch from Cal to the pros was huge. None of this is surprising. It gets down to the fact that unlike most high-picked qbs, Goff went to a team that CAN stick with “win now” mode. Name the last high-picked qb that is true of. They are not common. Most high-picked qbs go to teams that CAN’T win now, they’re in rebuilding mode. So since as a rule you accept losses when you start a rookie qb, unlike those rebuilding teams, Rams chose “win now.”
That would be a problem if it were true that the ONLY way to develop a qb is live reps. But all of NFL history demonstrates that’s NOT true. You can develop qbs both ways. Throwing them to the wolves, or sitting them and making them watch and learn. Both ways can work.
October 26, 2016 at 1:12 pm #56117nittany ramModeratorWell, I saw some things in Hard Knocks that concerned me a bit.
If they blew this pick the franchise will suffer for years. When you go all-in on a player like they did for Goff–you’d better be damn sure about him. Either they can’t evaluate properly and just rolled the dice, or they were just that desperate.
Either way–sooner or later, you gotta take the cloak off and show what’s there.
Maybe it won’t be this year.
The only thing about Goff that bothered me from Hard Knocks was that he didn’t seem very bright and I’m not talking only about sunrisegate. But what may appear as a lack of intelligence might actually be a lack of maturity.
Besides, he doesn’t have to be smart to excel at QB. See Bradshaw, Marino, Montana, etc….
October 26, 2016 at 2:34 pm #56120ZooeyModeratorThe only thing about Goff that bothered me from Hard Knocks was that he didn’t seem very bright and I’m not talking only about sunrisegate. But what may appear as a lack of intelligence might actually be a lack of maturity.
Besides, he doesn’t have to be smart to excel at QB. See Bradshaw, Marino, Montana, etc….
Ditto on that. It wasn’t just sunrisegate. There were candid moments of his interactions with other players where he just made comments that did not shine. I can’t remember the specific topics. But I got a sense that he didn’t absorb much knowledge at Cal, and Cal is a school where it would be hard not to, unless you are bored by anything complicated.
Also correct on Bradshaw, Marino, and Montana.
I don’t know how “smart” one has to be to play QB. As you know, there are multiple kinds of intelligence, and Bradshaw and Montana are downright dopey when it comes to the conventional concept. But isn’t playing QB a lot like playing computer games? I mean, ya gotta know the playbook, and read defenses. Reading defenses would seem to be the most difficult part of the job, really, because knowing the plays is a matter of rote knowledge. So…reading defenses. Which is what Jason Cole says he is currently deficient in. But that strikes me as a computer game skill, and lots of dopey people are great at computer games.
Okay. Now that I’ve just patronized everybody, I’m going to go grade some dopey essays.
October 26, 2016 at 3:51 pm #56123sanbaggerParticipantThe only thing about Goff that bothered me from Hard Knocks was that he didn’t seem very bright and I’m not talking only about sunrisegate. But what may appear as a lack of intelligence might actually be a lack of maturity.
Besides, he doesn’t have to be smart to excel at QB. See Bradshaw, Marino, Montana, etc….
Ditto on that. It wasn’t just sunrisegate. There were candid moments of his interactions with other players where he just made comments that did not shine. I can’t remember the specific topics. But I got a sense that he didn’t absorb much knowledge at Cal, and Cal is a school where it would be hard not to, unless you are bored by anything complicated.
Also correct on Bradshaw, Marino, and Montana.
I don’t know how “smart” one has to be to play QB. As you know, there are multiple kinds of intelligence, and Bradshaw and Montana are downright dopey when it comes to the conventional concept. But isn’t playing QB a lot like playing computer games? I mean, ya gotta know the playbook, and read defenses. Reading defenses would seem to be the most difficult part of the job, really, because knowing the plays is a matter of rote knowledge. So…reading defenses. Which is what Jason Cole says he is currently deficient in. But that strikes me as a computer game skill, and lots of dopey people are great at computer games.
Okay. Now that I’ve just patronized everybody, I’m going to go grade some dopey essays.
I would say the hardest part about playing QB at the NFL level is processing info correctly and doing it quickly.
They made it to the NFL so they have talent….the processing is what sets them apart IMO.
October 26, 2016 at 4:06 pm #56124wvParticipantI’m not worried about Goff yet. How is he supposed to ‘lead’ or show leadership
when he’s having so much trouble learning the system, etc.At some point in the future, the Rams will have a good QB. I truly believe that.
It probably wont happen in our lifetimes, but still.
w
vOctober 26, 2016 at 4:12 pm #56125ZooeyModeratorI would say the hardest part about playing QB at the NFL level is processing info correctly and doing it quickly.
They made it to the NFL so they have talent….the processing is what sets them apart IMO.
This is stuff I don’t know anything about, really, but my understanding is that Goff was in a system which did not require pre-snap reads of the defense. Nor did he take snaps under the center. His entire experience was in the shotgun with plays called from the sideline. So all he had to do was know his progressions on plays, and execute a throw (or handoff, or whatever).
The NFL requires pre-snap reads and then reacting by adjusting blocking assignments, routes, or both. That just isn’t anything he has ever done. And in the NFL, all of that happens with more defensive variations, and faster athletes who will blow up a play quicker.
So that is really the backstory with Goff. Wentz was considered more “pro-ready” because he had some experience doing those things in college. But the Rams thought Goff had the higher upside long term, and felt that the longer developmental time in the short term would be worth the higher payoff in the long run. At least, that’s what I understand.
October 26, 2016 at 4:15 pm #56126ZooeyModeratorI’m not worried about Goff yet. How is he supposed to ‘lead’ or show leadership
when he’s having so much trouble learning the system, etc.At some point in the future, the Rams will have a good QB. I truly believe that.
It probably wont happen in our lifetimes, but still.
w
vHe did not show a lack of confidence, or shaken confidence during Hard Knocks.
I liked that about him a lot.
October 26, 2016 at 4:15 pm #56128znModeratorOctober 26, 2016 at 4:18 pm #56129wvParticipantOctober 26, 2016 at 4:38 pm #56130 -
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